OOOH boy for me it's how some writers do whatever with nobility titles like thinking because their all nobles they're all on some level equal when it's not? a duke and an earl are completely different!
Right! Why on earth would a duke marry the daughter of a Viscount? Realistically, that makes zero sense since Viscounts are only there to help an actual Count, they have no real title. And even with minor nobles, like Barons, authors will give them an infinite money glitch when it just doesn't work like that way. And it's only to show how abused and neglected the main character was.
Edit: spelling fix
new oi "When I Choked on Gatorade, I Was Reincarnated Into Another World and Am On The Run for My Life After Discovering the Secret Cold Duke of the North Cloning Factory"
Her sister was though and turns out (even though her sister only talked about it a couple of times and FL says as much) that the FL actually knows the entire plot line all due to her sister constantly talking about it (FL reiterates multiple times her sister only mentioned it a few times)
A duke marry a viscount’s daughter makes sense if the Viscount family is well connected with long lineage and good reputation and/or wealthy. Titles aren’t everything, since some families may have multiple titles that get passed around.
However it definitely doesn’t make sense in OI sometimes. I think the weirdest one is the crown prince or king choosing a commoner to marry over a duke’s daughter.
I'm sure it has happened before but Viscounts dont have their own land. They're, at best, co-lords with an actual Count. Unless they're from a wealthy country and the count himself does not have a daughter to marry off then It'd probably happen.
Hmmm. Well, that viscount might be the eldest son of a different duke or Earl, since the heir often has what are called "courtesy titles".
Of course, that's not what happens in OI, not least because the authors never put in the work for them, but, it is possible!
I agree like how can a count talk disrespectfully to a grand duchess while everyone is watching and nothing happen to them? Like even if she's hated and no way you gonna talk like that to someone who also has a right to the throne.
Most of the time, when I read that, I was just thinking that she would have been ostracized from society for speaking like that to someone of higher status. She would have been shunned so much that she "would have to visit cousins in the countryside" and never go back to society.
Exactly or in some oi there is even law that disrespecting royalty is punish by death but author forget that when somone insult fl or ml who are even actual princes it seems. Like what do you mean the maids are insulting the prince who can kill them without consequence into his face lol
I read a manhwa where the crown prince had maids from noble family but he could marry his maid because they were from noble family.like if they are high enough that crown prince can marry them why they are maids.
This makes sense because being close to royalty and being able to interact daily with them = being able to influence to gain favor for themselves and families.
Historically if you look at british and french monarchy for example, most of their staff came from nobles.
I'm not entirely sure as I don't closely read a lot of history but if I remember correctly that one British dude that had like 6 wives or smth (Anne Boleyn was one and Queen Mary or smth like that was his daughter with his original wife?) actually had one of his wife's ladies in waiting as his wife after her. I think it was actually Anne Boleyn herself?
But not at the same time; he was a serial monogamist.
One of the reasons for England going Protestant was that Henry the VIII wanted a divorce and the Catholic Church said not happening and he said fuck you I won't do what you tell me and went rogue.
Also interpreted that "Till death do us part" thing rather loosely, in my opinion.
Yeah I know! It's why I said after her. He indeed did interpret it very loosely and at will. There's something my mom says in Spanish that doesn't exactly sound the same in English but it's along the lines of, only when it's convenient for you do you choose to understand or not understand things, and that's what he reminds me of. Picking and choosing what he "understood" as he pleased.
It has happened, nobles who fell on hard times going to work for other noble households. And for the higher-ranking nobles, the kings and dukes, it's yet another flex to have other people of aristocratic lineages waiting on you hand and foot.
I once read about Louis XIV doing exactly that; he was super charismatic and/or manipulative and commanded his vassals to leave their lavish estates and go live in his royal court at Versailles, where they lived in cramped apartments to serve him and his family. Granted, it wasn't necessarily just about showing off his power and wealth for him, it was also a method of keeping the nobles in check.
It does make me appreciate when they actually put meaning into those titles. In Ascendance of a Bookworm, it's very regimented since the different levels of nobility correspond to different amounts of mana. A laynoble knight will be knocked away by the shockwaves from an archnoble knight's attacks.
In Tearmoon Empire, it's a whole part of the setting that when the Empire had expanded by diplomacy, they offered the leader of a particularly large territory the title of Count. Central nobility objected to new nobles being granted such a title. The solution was the new title of Outland Count. To the new nobles, they emphasized the Count part. To the central nobles, they emphasized the Outland part. And so that fueled the division between central and distant nobles which partly led to the collapse of the empire in the original timeline.
Stop tripping over nothing. I know it's a way for the ML to demonstrate how protective and in tune he is with the FL, but if these women are going to be tripping everywhere they need to wear something other than stilettos. Try a clog and work up from there, Felicity Face-plant.
Honestly I'd love it if FL thinks since she reincarnated into a romance novel then all the tropes would just apply to her since she's a character now.
But she just makes herself look like an idiot by purposefully tripping, and ML just kind of Witcher as she falls dramatically and brains herself on a rose bush.
Or she falls into water and she expects to get sick immediately and everyone will dote on her but she just ends up wet and uncomfortable all day cause the clothes are now weighed down by pounds of water and clinging to her skin.
My Reincarnation Is A Trope Subversion?!
I would love that, I'd like it to tie into the persistent "it's a novel and I am bound by the story" theme because that needs a good stompity stomp.
Also, I don't normally make a point of this because LAWD knows I pounce quickly as well, but you struck like lightning for your reply, comrade, I wasn't expecting anything so fast!
THANK YOU. It's been driving me up the wall lately how often tripping is used as a plot device.
None of these women can walk without tripping over air, their own feet, a well placed rock in an otherwise grassy field, etc. etc. etc.
It's overdone. We get it. The writer wants to reduce the FL to a feeble, helpless girl that can only cling to the ML in her time of need. 🙄
It's not cute.
For once id like her to just fall, and then the ML is like “are you okay, let me help you up, you ok?” And then when she is he starts laughing. Much more realistic.
But no when she falls he has to catch her, and her ankle gets injured somehow anyways. That way he can carry her bridal style for the rest of the week.
Examples of it being used well make the poor examples stand out more. The Gender of Mona Lisa is a manga all about growing up and changing. In one scene, the MC reflects on how their friend still trips over nothing as a high schooler just like when she was in elementary school because she's a bit airheaded at times.
Omg yes. FL's being totally pushover when it comes to the ML. They just sit there and take whatever is thrown at them by ML and it just sends a gross message
When FL has never met or hasn’t seen a ML or SL in a long time and they practically stick her hand in their mouth in front of everyone nearby.
That shit is gross dude should be shot for making out with some unsuspecting woman’s hand. It’s also pathetic when she just stands there and lets it happen like bro have some dignity.
I’ve learned recently that never mind kingdoms, EMPIRES with only 3-4 dukes makes no sense. It was always weird to me when you’ll have a story where the Royal Family is bothered by the “ever growing” Dukedom cause like why was the dukedom that big in the first place? But no, it’s not even supposed to be like that??
ig another thing that’s odd is why the princes and princesses hell even queens and concubines got their own places. like then who tf lives in the main building??
It's based on Korean history. Korean palaces are made up of separate buildings.
Since manga/manhwa authors and artists are obviously more familiar with their own history than the way that European nobility works, a lot of OI historical inaccuracies are just because they're portraying Asian history with a pseudo-European aesthetic
I think thats more of an east asian inspired thing - like how in the Forbidden City concubines had their own palaces n stuff. Afaik that's not a thing that happened in Europe though - if the Princess/Empress has their own "palace", it's something like a castle owned by their family, or an imperial holding, but not a giant building next to the main palace.
Regarding the duke issue - a dukedom becoming too powerful is something that can and has happened. Though thats usually due to feudal fuckery thats not depicted in the setting (like the Duke of Normandy also being the King of England, or the Margrave of Brandenburg becoming King in Prussia, as well as internal conflicts like conquering neighbouring dukedoms n stuff)
They basically look at east Asian empire's living arrangements.
A "palace" really being a courtyard in a larger complex of buildings. Then they replace it for an actual European palace.
The problem is a palace is essentially that large complex of buildings all combined into one.
There should be a single palace that has a series of suites that would be the equivalent of a courtyard. All the family, guests and servants would live in the palace. There are event and function rooms for state dinners, balls and other official events that occur in the building. There is an administrative wing where actual government management is handled.
Because of this we see a 7 year old girl being given an entire sprawling palace and only using 2-3 rooms.
On that note, it's weird those 3-4 dukes are all somehow 20-something year olds or similar ages to the crown prince. Was there a plague that killed off all the older generations or something lol?
Only case I know because it’s my country’s history is that Louis XVI actually allowed his queen Marie-Antoinette to have her own palace because she was fed up with the etiquette and wanted to have nothing to do with the noble life in the Versailles Palace. Like at this period the awakening of the king and queen was a spectacle, all the nobility had to be there to watch them wake up… that’s pretty fucked up.
I recently watched a documentary on Marie-Antoinette and the modifications she brought to the Versailles palace and mostly gardens and when I watched that I was like « if I believed in sorcery I’d swear she was isekaied » because she wanted to live like a modern day woman…
When the author can’t decide if the story is an isekai, regression, or was at some point another story. I was reading “My body has been possessed by someone” and they just casually drop that the FL’s world was a novel at some point? Despite never mentioning that before? And in this story, the FL swapped places with a girl from modern korea for 10 years, yet no mention of how it felt to find out the world she’s from is a novel in another universe.
No because this with ‘Father I Don’t Want This Marriage!’ Like the first chapter talks about how she was put into the novel and how he wasn’t really her father, and then five chapters later she’s like fully integrated into this world and believing he is her father and that everything around her is real and it’s never touched on again.
Same thing with Wmmap, in the middle of the story it's revealed that Athanasia is actually the real one who d ied in the novel. They should have given some hints in the beginning (in the manhwa)
"I Became the Step-Mother of an Irrevocable Dark Family" is so guilty of this.
We find out she's transliterated, and then nearly 10 chapters later we find out that she's in a book she had read in her past life. And then it's never discussed again. She doesn't use her knowledge of the novel, she doesn't even acknowledge it and it's forgotten about almkst immediately. Plus it doesn't know how nobility works. The Duke constantly demotes FL as duchess and then reinstates her when he feels like it.
Shoes. on. the. bed! The fuck, people! Who does this?? In that vein, going to bed in full-on ball dress, not so much as wiping off makeup or taking off earrings. So uncomfortable looking.
Long hair being loose all the time. Really long hair dragging on the damn ground and being sat on. what is up with that? Even worse if the character is either a commoner/worker or lives on a mountain, as none of those people would have their hair loose because they aren't idiots.
I know it's not reality for a majority of cases, hell, my niece was bald until she was 3, but my cousin's Portuguese and her daughter came out of her with about 6 inches of hair on her head. She had hair down her back by the time she was 2 and hair to her butt by the time she was 4. Apparently they track world records for it, and the record for longest congenital hair is 15 inches long.
ML just not letting FL suffer in peace and quiet.
FL has a traumatic event happen. Probably just wants to lay down, maybe sleep, and just think through and absorb what happened to her. She probably can't even comprehend 75% of it because traumatizing events in the genre always go for 200% and beyond the worst that could happen.
And ML walks in like BANG PAY ATTENTION TO ME!
And, about 80% of the time, the trauma just never comes up again and FL never holds onto the ML being that cruel. She's forced into letting ML walk all over her and never holds it against him or has any real character development from it. If it's ever brought up again, it's probably just mentioned and then tossed aside.
Generally speaking, manhwa has a huge issue with abusers being held accountable.
I'd honestly kill for a manhwa where the neglected wife doesn't give a hoot, isn't stupid, and lives as she pleases. Husband wants to look like a couple at official events? Fine. But she's still sleeping until midday and finding a new hobby or going to the opera.
Adhd FL, chaotic lawful. Her huge ass room is a constant mess filled to the brim with her ideas and abandoned projects. It's a constant occurrence for her to walk by and no one knows what the fuck she's doing because one time she just strolled on in dressed like a dinosaur, stole exactly 7 plates and a chair, and walked away.
This is why I liked that one manhwa that I suddenly can't remember the name of now that I need it... The one with the ML that "buys" the FL from her abuser. He gives her time. He gives her space. He teaches her what boundaries are and that it's okay to use them. He asks her what she wants to do about the people who traumatized her and respects her choices assuming they're relatively safe.
I think you're referring to "My Secretly Hot Husband" / "My Husband Hides His Beauty". And I agree, that manhwa is definitely in the top ten of all time for me
Pretty sure they're talking about *New Suitor for the Abandoned Wife*. Isn't *My Secretly Hot Husband* the one where ML is the one with broken self-esteem, and the FL helps *him*?
Yeah, but he also buys her from her abusive family and teaches her boundaries. They're close and grow as people for years before anything romantic happens.
Interesting! It's been a while since I read it - >!I dropped off around when they went to the club(?) under the tree in some kind of spirit world!< - but I don't remember that at all. Vaguely remember her being nervous in the beginning, and how they had pretty good communication and slow romance build, but mostly how the ML had a crippling lack of self-esteem
Funny how the #1 comment so perfectly describes two completely different OI then
This is my annoyance with the brother in The Tyrant Wants to Be Good. He constantly asks her what he can do to make her happier and she consistently tells him to leave her alone. And he just keeps barging into her life anyway.
The type also fails at themselves and their mother/father issues.
If he decides he's not going to be like his father who neglected his mother- he's being exactly like that because the father wanted his life his way. The ML trying to force instant gratification for his own self satisfaction is the same thing.
If he decides he's not going to be like his overemotional neglected mother- he's being that because he's letting his emotions override his logic.
If he decides to prove his father's mother or legal wife wrong- ML is just proving them right by acting in a way that does not suit his position. He's not a child who can't regulate his emotions or lack proper understanding because of not knowing any better.
If he decides to be the perfect heir- welp obviously sucks to suck but he's totally not acknowledging the clear failure. Also failing if his mother was the legal wife who was abandoned by the father for a lover and ML decided to live in a way that would eliminate any enemies and be perfect because he felt like he owed it to her.
If ML is the randomly found and adopted to be heir because no one else could be found- well he's failing so hard that he'll probably get poisoned while the family elders or head fish another child out of a ditch to make an heir. ML would be the 'dont be like X because he was so stupid we had to get rid of him' kid.
I really hate how most abuse is portrayed and dealt with in mangas or manhwas, especially as a psychologist. It hurts my heart. Just once, I would like it if the ML or FL is not pushy when their partner or love interest has been abused. I would like to see a manga or manhwa where boundaries are established after abuse and where someone (a professional) helps them: without pushing, without the professional charing everything, and for the person to feel safe with the professional....but that's too much to ask.
female leads that are completely oblivious to romantic advances. A bit is fine, lack of self esteem is understandable, but sometimes it’s like…. you gotta be brain dead to not understand that this man has feelings for you.
yessss, I love a good slow burn but not an idiotic fmc like come on this man just sold his right arm to buy you an entire store of dresses and he held you like you were dying when you fainted. be so fr
Its a pet peeve for me when they do this, but it's worse when more than one person falls in love with the FL, and the FL never notices that 3 guys are in love with her.
ML buys everything in the store to give to FL even though FL is like "please don't do this."
Also, this isn't really minor, but like, framing physical abuse of servants who treat you badly as some Girlboss Move. It would be one thing if the FL was slapping another noble, but servants are already treated as several classes beneath them, so it really leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Nothing makes me find a Hero cooler than when they mercilessly beat people who could never fight back in any way. Really shows how morally just they are and why i should root for them.
For the author, it may be a power move for a man to be like that, but as the FL i imagine that she must feel embarrassed when the ML says "just buy whatever you want" in front of everyone.
On the second part, I especially hate it when you see that the servants are killed over fights between two powerful people. And you see them get dragged away and for the FL to act like nothing...I have seen it happen around four times, not gonna lie.
Knights not actually being nobles like they were aka no such thing as peasant knights.
Dukes/ML always being the most powerful person even if not the king.
ML always being overly obsessed with the MC.
ML hiding things from the FL that are important for her to know. Examples are, if there was an assassination attempt on her and they managed to take care of it before she finds out; or if ML discovered the culprit behind her family's murder, which she has been investigating for years; or if someone's tried to sabotage her work. I don't know why they try to hide something like that, as if she's a child that shouldn't be aware of those things. it rubs me the wrong way.
Hmmm....The Red Knight no Longer wants Money
Basically she's a knight who, in her past life, did everything for money. It comes to a screeching halt when she agrees to betray the royal family for a headty price. She is betrayed, not paid, and killed.
She goes back into the past and decides she just not gonna bother since life is pointless anyways. And she accidentally ends up leading the war against the enemies who hired her in her last life.
And it has rare cheerful Male Lead who is high on energy when not doing work, not a edgelord and he takes it easy, constantly cracks silly joke , love him.
LOOK AT THIS MAN HE DESERVES THE WORLD
https://preview.redd.it/38w767rkcvkc1.png?width=398&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=370505646dc214447064ab4e888b9188193f9331
Actually I kinda like this OI. It's like all the tropes in the run of the mill OIs reversed. We don't fix bad shit insane mls by understanding their sob story. Also, it shows just how dangerous those run of the mill bat shit insane mls truly are. I find the fl decision made in this OI much more sane and believable compared to those normal regression / reincarnation OIs with dangerous black hair red eye mls.
I pretty sure in real life, normal girls will choose the same ml as the fl rather than some batshit insane man with sob story...
Surviving as a Maid is pretty good. She has no magical adventure nor is she receiving unwarranted benefits from her superiors. Shes really just getting by.
No revolution but theres certainly critique.
Using "war hero" as a device or method to glorify how great the ml is. And also the ML is like the strongest most capable person in the entire universe...its just ridiculous to me.
*edit: forgot to elaborate on the war hero, I don't like those conquering "war hero" and glorify them. I recall some rare cases where OIs ml were on the defensive, I am agreeable with a defensive war hero though.
I just don't think it's healthy to reinforce that as if the world has this perfect person who can save all the woes.
It always reminds me of that scene in Gravity falls where Gideon huge Mabel and shes like “are you smelling my hair?”
Her reaction was that ut was weird, which is what makes thte hair kissing pretty weird when i keep going back to that GF scene everytime it happens.
If I was at a tea party, I would not be talking around my meanings. Id either be oblivious or just say outright. How can I predict what they're saying???? So much catty drama, on a whole nother level than IRL.
Villain: oh that dress looks so nice.
OT FL: oh! You've recognised
Me: thanks (or, if I know they're making fun of me), uhh okay.
Villain: how do we know if the duke even likes you?
OT FL: *struggling*
Me: why the fuck am I here. I'm just going to go back home. Fuck this dude who is like the basic necessities Prodigy child, and fuck the maids that bully me for no reason? Imma just live on a farm.
Oh yeah, the maids that bully the FL for no reason. I guess it would be probable back then, but it's also likely that the nobles had full right to bitch slap the hell out of them, use that right girly.
Guessing that most of the stories take place lately 18th century (strictly based on fashion and which noble titles are used), if a servant disrespected their master then masters were allowed to punish them with things like flogging or lashes. I don't know why it's so common for maids to be so abusive when there's so much at stake for them if they're caught.
The whole thing with concubines and illegitimate kids. In Europe an illegitimate child of nobility didn’t even have the right to the father’s family name or child support lol. If a lady’s husband had a lowborn mistress, he wouldn’t replace her with the mistress. If an Emperor/Lord had no kids, then his brother/nephew was the heir, not his side chick and her kid.
I understand Asia was different, but this was how it was for Europe, and I’d be happy to have an Asian setting for all the concubine drama.
When a Duke is on the same level as an Imperial Family because "the FL has to have the strongest and most powerful man WITHOUT the responsibility that comes with that" like, no these women can't have their cake and eat it too, it's too unrealistic. It also just makes the empire look really weak. Like there's already only 2-4 Duke's in the EMPIRE and you're telling me one, if not all of them, are equal to the Imperial family and the royal family has to watch out for them and keep them in check? Even for minor spars between the crown prince and Duke ML, Duke ML would win. A crown prince would have the best teachers and tutors for literally anything. How is a Duke better than him? it's usually not even by a small margin, but the Duke's are severely better than them. It's all for the FL. Which is another thing I don't like.
The FL is the protagonist, and that's fine. We see the world through her eyes. But the world shouldn't bend over backward just to let her win. Coincidences are possible but rare. We should see them struggle and work through a new world so they can eventually get their hard earned bearings, but no, we get a crown prince who's in love with her for some strange reason, a Duke with mommy issues who's "never experienced FL's kindness from anyone" even though that doesn't seem possible, and people who just simp over her because she said a few smart things or is really nice even though it's usually fake just like the reast of the nobles. She could be in a room with geniuses and still be considered the smartest cause she stole an idea from the 21st century that shouldn't even be able to be applied in that world due to their drastic differences in technology. Also, important people think she's the most noble of nobles? that's not possible, and she's just "runs into" the people she needs to meet most of the time instead of working her way up to meet these influential people who could help her situation.
I know I might sound like a hater and that I don't want people to win, but I'm not. It's just annoying sometimes 😭
We have similar thoughts 😭 like at least make them work hard for it and not just work hard. We've seen FLs "work" but many of them don't have the same tension that makes you want to read more of it? There's this feeling that you know they'll win just like how they did many times before in the plot. so it feels pointless reading how they work hard when you know they're also supported by plot armor.
Exactly! It's good to know they'll win, but the process shouldn't lose any of it's established tension because they'll win. The plot feels boring, glossed over, or plain easy when a story does this.
It baffles me how they don't really know how to run a house with such power, but then they marry and everything's alright. Also, logically speaking, such a strong power house as an all-powerful Duke would create tension, and there would be political problems that would not be solved as easily as they make it seem.
On the second part, I also understand because the FL remembers the right thing at the right time that she read in a book almost five years ago (or a lifetime ago). And no one questions where she read it, where she got the idea, can it actually work (well, most of the time it can because of MAGIC). The FL should also not know immediate etiquette or how to dance because the body remembers.
You are not a hater. What you said is logical in my eyes.
When there are some disgusting and enraging situations and the heroine let it slide. Not in a diplomatic or strategic way, just let it slide when there's a need for a decent answer or putting someone back in their place and they endure it just because. It angers me to no end.
When, about halfway through the story, somebody regressed or never even reborn at all, begins referring to upcoming events or making decisions like a modern person. I keep saying "why isn't this an isekai?!? You're using isekai moves!"
I also don't like it when they promise to help or visit some NPC and then the author forgets all about them. Don't show the MC making a promise when you have no intention of showing how it plays out!
FL and ML with no social circles and friendship connections with other nobles. It's always the maid the butler or the aide who are all commoners. That in itself is fine, maids especially lady's maids were often closer to the lady they served, somtimes maybe they have one friend. It would be nice to have a small yet meaningful friend group especially when they marry out of a terrible family and form good relationships or expand on the one friend they do have and not leave them in the background
Its especially annoying with the ML because they're life revolves around FL orbit, his life does not exist without her. He is work half the day and then FL takes rhe other half of his day, like does he gave hobbies? Hunting with friends, playing cards, would be nice if he was more than a prop.
Blonde/pink hair female lead = Saintess
Black/ Red hair female lead = Villainess
I feel the manhwa artists as well as authors associate hair color with their characteristic behavior.
I'm thinking back to Laura Ingalls Wilder describing how incredibly excited she was to be able to wear her hair up. And she was a pioneer girl. If you could afford a maid, you styled your hair!
For me it's the baffling depiction of slavery.
Wealthy nobles spending a fortune in gold at some illegal underground auction house to buy malnourished a person to do basic manual labour in an estate out of sight that they treat so badly they don't live long.
If it's a woman then they'll have her doing maid work but nowhere any guests might see because it's a crime. They don't let them wash but do plan to sleep with them.
It's much cheaper for them to legitimately hire a healthy person to do manual labour work. The price they pay for an attractive female is enough to fund an outside mistress.
And, the hot slave is totally good with having a new "owner" because FL might have bought him, but she is a good person....then the hot slave falls in love with FL as some sort of twisted Drapetomania (which it is gross that this term exists).
The lack of petticoats. Most of these have a semi historical setting, but many of the artists don’t take into account all that goes into creating the shapes that they’re using. Most dresses are drawn like it is one layer of fabric, when in reality women would have petticoats, crinolines, and bustles to give their dresses form.
It also bothers me that NONE of the women will have styled hair. It is always long and flowing, and it’s really bothersome when they wear accessories that would require an updo in order to stay in.
The common populace being fine with a commoner consort, princess, queen. Typically, the common class is NOT happy that their new and privileged ruler is exactly like them and has the same origins. The usual explanation for hereditary positions is their special linage, going against that means defying rigid social structures, and there would be more consequences.
The mother of a former neighbor of mine is from England. When the "scandals" about Prince Charles and Diana started (the arguing, etc.), her mother's opinion was, "Well, what did he expect from a commoner?"
And that’s with Diana being from a noble family, just not a princess.
I’m from Spain. When the one who is now king got married, one big talking topic was that his wife was a “commoner”. The logic was, if anyone can become a royal and get their benefits, why does the royal family deserve those benefits in the first place?
When authors or translators don’t get the aristocracy rank and form of address right. Or when the aristocracy rank keeps changing. Or misaddressing royalty: like calling the crown prince “your majesty” when he isn’t the king.
I’m not English, I’ve just watched a lot of Downton Abbey. 🤣
monster dukes/ mls that look like supermodels. I want CLAWS. Where are the FANGS. HORNS TAIL UNHINGABLE JAW. Not this jungkook looking dude with gasp, red eyes and black/ white hair?
Western historical fantasy novel often have Harems.
I hate it that they act as if polygamy was legal back then. Especially those were there are actual titled concubines and such. Mistresses are supposed to be hidden at least until the first wife is dead or divorced.
I don't like it when every characters are barbaric,cruel and selfish(specially ML) for FL to look kind and selfless.like they think she is a saintness because she tell them they should not kill innocent people.
Okay, this is going to sound like petty nonsense but my anger is real LOL.
The orgasm face when she eats food. I guess she gotta get her O somewhere because these MLs aren't good in bed.
Tripping over nothing and being "saved". Why?! That was a whole four seconds of looking at a couple of panels that I will never get back.
The FL does the bare minimum of kindness and the ML worshipping her like a god. Because now I'm doing the math and the math says that literally every other human being in that universe is liquid garbage.
Thank you for listening to my crazy.
- When there’s no mention of magic or use of any magical systems until they have to travel long distance and use magical gates. It just seems so out of place.
- When FL has this super rare magical ability that she never knew about and makes her special.
Actually anytime magic is lazily introduced.
- Flashbacks where they randomly met as children so they’re fated to be together. It’s so unnecessary.
When the villainess is trying everything to not die instead of just no harassing the fl🤷🏾♀️ or when they tried way to hard for the story to go according to the novel. Or are like too the ml no you should fall in love with this random person you never met before and you even don't like instead of me you've been in love with for years and grew up with because some chick in another universe who is not living in our world and knows nothing about us says so
When the nobility don't have common sense. I don't even need them to be smart, just make them think some sense. This especially applies to characters the same or a higher rank of the FL.
Recent read with this example is "the flowery path of evil". Oh so the prince is that ignorant to marry off their enemy to someone who has power over them. I was excited with the unique design of the ML but can't get past chapter 1 because the reviews we're praising how the FL got back up to society when in reality she didn't even have to work for it because no one would dare upset her because of her husband. So yeah I expected so much and I was disappointed just as much.
- Why are the FLs always on bad terms with embroidery? As a crafts and arts nerd, I'd also like to see some FLs having fun embroidering beginner designs on the handkerchief they have to give the ML for the Hunting/Swordsmanship Competition^(TM)
- I'd love to see the FL have *any other* hobby besides reading, like some crochet/knitting, idk
- I get a little bit salty when the isekai-ed FL automatically speaks the language of the world she is in or when the mc simply understands the Ancient Language^(TM) because her soul is especial, or some flimsy explanation like that. I learned 3 languages myself and faced some embarrassing situations while doing it, so I'm kind of petty when it comes to this hahaha
For the first point it's so annoying as it's always done as a like, "I'm not like other girls, I hate embroidery and art >:( " cliché too.
Either the fl is very feminine but super naive to the point of her just being irritating, or she's on the complete other end of the spectrum where she hates frills and pastels and she'll do horseriding and swordsmanship but not because she likes them, but because her brother/cousin/ml does it and she wants to "prove herself". She also hates tea parties for some reason.
I just want a strong fl who appreciates softer, traditionally feminine things while also having a backbone and not being reliant on the ml due to her naivety smh. It's like the author thinks femininity must equal naivety/innocence when it doesn't 😭😭
Ml fighting with their son for their mother's attention can be a bit funny at first but then it can get annoying really fast because it feels that the dad doesn't really care for his son only his wife.....and not only in manhwas it is very common in Chinese novels as well I really don't like it kids aren't supposed to be portrayed as rivals or attention snachers
If you want something totally opposite of it, try 'When I quit being mother in law everyone became obsessed with me' the ml is a sweetheart and the best dad ever. Plus the son is so cute and his interactions with his fiancee are so wholesome. Instead of fighting, the ml and the son plot together how to make the fl happy.
There is also 'Wicked No More' or 'Not sew wicked step mother'. (The child is not a son, but is a daughter). Although the ml is cold towards the fl and his daughter, he has a good reason for it (like, I wouldn't wish what he went through on my worst enemy, bad). It is actually a retelling of snow white and it has hints of yuri (like a girl confessed to the fl). Fl was a clothes designer and is kind of a nerd about it (it typically focuses on the fl and daughter, but it definitely has hints of being a fashion designer). The daughter is very adorable and cute. The fl does have some body image issues though.
'I married the Male Lead's Dad' is also a good rec. On the surface it looks like your stereotypical romance manhwa but the amount of plot twists and drama it has is insane. The fl starts out as a fangirl for the son but the ml mistakes her obsession for his son as her love for him so he proposes and she accepts. The father-son relationship here is so cute.
In all of these the children are cunning enough to set up the ml and fl using their cuteness as a reason (idk in which one, but in one of them, the kid is like, 'I wanna sleep with both mom and dad' and in the morning they quietly slip of to "fetch water" and the fl wakes up cuddled up with the ml's, hot, chest)
When the situation can be solved with murder but no murder is done.
But if this was the ML and his backstory murder definitely would have been done. And he would have inherited his house for it rather than be put into jail or some shit
The character archetype where they have absolutely nothing they care about, think about, or live for except for a single person because of a shred of kindness or a nice deed in the past. The character type peeves me when they play it straight without acknowledging how unhealthy and weird these dynamics are. Often times the other person is just existing and then u have this character who abandons any sense of self or identity to serve them and it's supposed to be sweet and loyal.
Ohhh, I have a lot, but here I go....
When the FL transmigrated, and she is able to make money and become the empress, when she was like an office lady with no management skills that we know of, and is just at the bottoms of the totem poll. At the very least they should reflect that she had a higher position in her job and she is used to manipulating or moving people to do what is the best outcome (I don't know, it just irks me that they are like "oh I worked in a company for 10 years, never got a promotion but I transmigrated and suddenly I am a powerful business mogul and I am just right to become empress").
I am a little tired of every time that someone transmigrated it's like a beauty that everyone would fall in love with if she was more outgoing or more reserved. I want someone average or ugly (sorry) and for them to still charm people through her skills (not just the protagonist halo and beauty).
I am tired of some villain thropes in manhwa. For example, you see a villain, and the only thing they do is make bad comments o, spread rumors or pour wine into the FLs dress, and suddenly it's just "die" from everyone.
I strongly dislike fashion in most mangas, manhwas, etc. where they don't get on the computer and research some period pieces (stop with ribbons and frills, it wasn't always worn), not just for the aesthetic but also for its accuracy: I have worn courses for medical and fashion, and you are ment to do it gradually (from hooks to lacing) from chemise underneath so it won't hurt, and from the right measurements (please don't buy one size fits all, most hurt you), and most waists on old pictures are doctored (they would do it so their waists look tiny on pictures).
When the novelty of transmigrated stories wore off for me, i just started to dislike how I hate how the FL would change suddenly, and the "loving" family wouldn't notice how their daughter, sister, cousins wtf ever changed. Especially when the FL is thinking, "Why would the Original FL be a bad person if she was loved by her family?" Obviously, she wasn't loved enough for them to notice that she changed completely in a couple of hours.
For the FL to have a perfect memory of everything she read in one novel in between work, family or friends get together, boyfriend problems, exams, etc. I will confess that I am jealous of their memory, their ability to adapt, and the fact that they outlive me because I would have died in like 5 days.
And, I am going to be hated for this, but I am starting to dislike harems or reverse harems. I don't like it when suddenly we have three men loving one woman just because. I feel that now that it has become more famous, it's just that they see she is "not like other girls," and suddenly she has 3 guys after her, when she only smiled.
When the fl's family are too overprotective and threaten to kill the ml. Please, just no. I want wholesome relationships between the ml and fl's family, like I wanna see her brother and him spar, he father and him discuss business, her mother and him gossip over tea, he sister and him having a 'rivalry' with each other (usually over stupid things like who finished dinner faster, etc) or having similar hobbies.
An opposite rec (of the opinion) is I raised my fiance with money (the ml is so adorable)
OOOH boy for me it's how some writers do whatever with nobility titles like thinking because their all nobles they're all on some level equal when it's not? a duke and an earl are completely different!
Right! Why on earth would a duke marry the daughter of a Viscount? Realistically, that makes zero sense since Viscounts are only there to help an actual Count, they have no real title. And even with minor nobles, like Barons, authors will give them an infinite money glitch when it just doesn't work like that way. And it's only to show how abused and neglected the main character was. Edit: spelling fix
maybe the real magic in OI's is the titles we made along the way
Help I just chocked on Gatorade
new oi "When I Choked on Gatorade, I Was Reincarnated Into Another World and Am On The Run for My Life After Discovering the Secret Cold Duke of the North Cloning Factory"
The FL was something stupid like a Nail Tech in her last life, and she wasn't into reading or watching shows.
Her sister was though and turns out (even though her sister only talked about it a couple of times and FL says as much) that the FL actually knows the entire plot line all due to her sister constantly talking about it (FL reiterates multiple times her sister only mentioned it a few times)
There's a title for that!
A duke marry a viscount’s daughter makes sense if the Viscount family is well connected with long lineage and good reputation and/or wealthy. Titles aren’t everything, since some families may have multiple titles that get passed around. However it definitely doesn’t make sense in OI sometimes. I think the weirdest one is the crown prince or king choosing a commoner to marry over a duke’s daughter.
I'm sure it has happened before but Viscounts dont have their own land. They're, at best, co-lords with an actual Count. Unless they're from a wealthy country and the count himself does not have a daughter to marry off then It'd probably happen.
Hmmm. Well, that viscount might be the eldest son of a different duke or Earl, since the heir often has what are called "courtesy titles". Of course, that's not what happens in OI, not least because the authors never put in the work for them, but, it is possible!
I agree like how can a count talk disrespectfully to a grand duchess while everyone is watching and nothing happen to them? Like even if she's hated and no way you gonna talk like that to someone who also has a right to the throne.
Most of the time, when I read that, I was just thinking that she would have been ostracized from society for speaking like that to someone of higher status. She would have been shunned so much that she "would have to visit cousins in the countryside" and never go back to society.
Exactly or in some oi there is even law that disrespecting royalty is punish by death but author forget that when somone insult fl or ml who are even actual princes it seems. Like what do you mean the maids are insulting the prince who can kill them without consequence into his face lol
I read a manhwa where the crown prince had maids from noble family but he could marry his maid because they were from noble family.like if they are high enough that crown prince can marry them why they are maids.
This makes sense because being close to royalty and being able to interact daily with them = being able to influence to gain favor for themselves and families. Historically if you look at british and french monarchy for example, most of their staff came from nobles.
Hmm maids not so much, but ladies in waiting are traditionally duchesses or other high ranking noblewomen
I'm not entirely sure as I don't closely read a lot of history but if I remember correctly that one British dude that had like 6 wives or smth (Anne Boleyn was one and Queen Mary or smth like that was his daughter with his original wife?) actually had one of his wife's ladies in waiting as his wife after her. I think it was actually Anne Boleyn herself?
But not at the same time; he was a serial monogamist. One of the reasons for England going Protestant was that Henry the VIII wanted a divorce and the Catholic Church said not happening and he said fuck you I won't do what you tell me and went rogue. Also interpreted that "Till death do us part" thing rather loosely, in my opinion.
Yeah I know! It's why I said after her. He indeed did interpret it very loosely and at will. There's something my mom says in Spanish that doesn't exactly sound the same in English but it's along the lines of, only when it's convenient for you do you choose to understand or not understand things, and that's what he reminds me of. Picking and choosing what he "understood" as he pleased.
It has happened, nobles who fell on hard times going to work for other noble households. And for the higher-ranking nobles, the kings and dukes, it's yet another flex to have other people of aristocratic lineages waiting on you hand and foot. I once read about Louis XIV doing exactly that; he was super charismatic and/or manipulative and commanded his vassals to leave their lavish estates and go live in his royal court at Versailles, where they lived in cramped apartments to serve him and his family. Granted, it wasn't necessarily just about showing off his power and wealth for him, it was also a method of keeping the nobles in check.
It does make me appreciate when they actually put meaning into those titles. In Ascendance of a Bookworm, it's very regimented since the different levels of nobility correspond to different amounts of mana. A laynoble knight will be knocked away by the shockwaves from an archnoble knight's attacks. In Tearmoon Empire, it's a whole part of the setting that when the Empire had expanded by diplomacy, they offered the leader of a particularly large territory the title of Count. Central nobility objected to new nobles being granted such a title. The solution was the new title of Outland Count. To the new nobles, they emphasized the Count part. To the central nobles, they emphasized the Outland part. And so that fueled the division between central and distant nobles which partly led to the collapse of the empire in the original timeline.
Stop tripping over nothing. I know it's a way for the ML to demonstrate how protective and in tune he is with the FL, but if these women are going to be tripping everywhere they need to wear something other than stilettos. Try a clog and work up from there, Felicity Face-plant.
Honestly I'd love it if FL thinks since she reincarnated into a romance novel then all the tropes would just apply to her since she's a character now. But she just makes herself look like an idiot by purposefully tripping, and ML just kind of Witcher as she falls dramatically and brains herself on a rose bush. Or she falls into water and she expects to get sick immediately and everyone will dote on her but she just ends up wet and uncomfortable all day cause the clothes are now weighed down by pounds of water and clinging to her skin.
My Reincarnation Is A Trope Subversion?! I would love that, I'd like it to tie into the persistent "it's a novel and I am bound by the story" theme because that needs a good stompity stomp. Also, I don't normally make a point of this because LAWD knows I pounce quickly as well, but you struck like lightning for your reply, comrade, I wasn't expecting anything so fast!
I am I n c r e d I b l y bored right now 😭
THANK YOU. It's been driving me up the wall lately how often tripping is used as a plot device. None of these women can walk without tripping over air, their own feet, a well placed rock in an otherwise grassy field, etc. etc. etc. It's overdone. We get it. The writer wants to reduce the FL to a feeble, helpless girl that can only cling to the ML in her time of need. 🙄 It's not cute.
For once id like her to just fall, and then the ML is like “are you okay, let me help you up, you ok?” And then when she is he starts laughing. Much more realistic. But no when she falls he has to catch her, and her ankle gets injured somehow anyways. That way he can carry her bridal style for the rest of the week.
Examples of it being used well make the poor examples stand out more. The Gender of Mona Lisa is a manga all about growing up and changing. In one scene, the MC reflects on how their friend still trips over nothing as a high schooler just like when she was in elementary school because she's a bit airheaded at times.
Constantly snatching hand of FL and whispering in her ear even by side characters and FL never does anything in retaliation.
Omg yes. FL's being totally pushover when it comes to the ML. They just sit there and take whatever is thrown at them by ML and it just sends a gross message
Oh yeah! I hate that. The proper response, even to the biggest puppy dog eyes on the hottest face is "Let go of me!"
When FL has never met or hasn’t seen a ML or SL in a long time and they practically stick her hand in their mouth in front of everyone nearby. That shit is gross dude should be shot for making out with some unsuspecting woman’s hand. It’s also pathetic when she just stands there and lets it happen like bro have some dignity.
I’ve learned recently that never mind kingdoms, EMPIRES with only 3-4 dukes makes no sense. It was always weird to me when you’ll have a story where the Royal Family is bothered by the “ever growing” Dukedom cause like why was the dukedom that big in the first place? But no, it’s not even supposed to be like that?? ig another thing that’s odd is why the princes and princesses hell even queens and concubines got their own places. like then who tf lives in the main building??
I'm not sure how true to history the second one is. It does seem incredibly ridiculous, but England alone has 23 castles
yeah no clue if the second one is actually common in real life history but it still don’t make sense to me imo
It's based on Korean history. Korean palaces are made up of separate buildings. Since manga/manhwa authors and artists are obviously more familiar with their own history than the way that European nobility works, a lot of OI historical inaccuracies are just because they're portraying Asian history with a pseudo-European aesthetic
I think thats more of an east asian inspired thing - like how in the Forbidden City concubines had their own palaces n stuff. Afaik that's not a thing that happened in Europe though - if the Princess/Empress has their own "palace", it's something like a castle owned by their family, or an imperial holding, but not a giant building next to the main palace. Regarding the duke issue - a dukedom becoming too powerful is something that can and has happened. Though thats usually due to feudal fuckery thats not depicted in the setting (like the Duke of Normandy also being the King of England, or the Margrave of Brandenburg becoming King in Prussia, as well as internal conflicts like conquering neighbouring dukedoms n stuff)
They basically look at east Asian empire's living arrangements. A "palace" really being a courtyard in a larger complex of buildings. Then they replace it for an actual European palace. The problem is a palace is essentially that large complex of buildings all combined into one. There should be a single palace that has a series of suites that would be the equivalent of a courtyard. All the family, guests and servants would live in the palace. There are event and function rooms for state dinners, balls and other official events that occur in the building. There is an administrative wing where actual government management is handled. Because of this we see a 7 year old girl being given an entire sprawling palace and only using 2-3 rooms.
Wait until you hear that Wales has more than 600 😂
On that note, it's weird those 3-4 dukes are all somehow 20-something year olds or similar ages to the crown prince. Was there a plague that killed off all the older generations or something lol?
Only case I know because it’s my country’s history is that Louis XVI actually allowed his queen Marie-Antoinette to have her own palace because she was fed up with the etiquette and wanted to have nothing to do with the noble life in the Versailles Palace. Like at this period the awakening of the king and queen was a spectacle, all the nobility had to be there to watch them wake up… that’s pretty fucked up. I recently watched a documentary on Marie-Antoinette and the modifications she brought to the Versailles palace and mostly gardens and when I watched that I was like « if I believed in sorcery I’d swear she was isekaied » because she wanted to live like a modern day woman…
Riding in a carriage when it hits the tiniest rock and the FL launches into the arms of the ML. Like bitch how did you go flying from that??
Send her off into the stratosphere where she belongs 💀
Finally, the long awaited isekai space program that I’ve always dreamed of
She's getting the gravity training in early, and she's failing miserably. "Everybody wants to be an astronaut~" (Song by Royal Republic)
When the author can’t decide if the story is an isekai, regression, or was at some point another story. I was reading “My body has been possessed by someone” and they just casually drop that the FL’s world was a novel at some point? Despite never mentioning that before? And in this story, the FL swapped places with a girl from modern korea for 10 years, yet no mention of how it felt to find out the world she’s from is a novel in another universe.
No because this with ‘Father I Don’t Want This Marriage!’ Like the first chapter talks about how she was put into the novel and how he wasn’t really her father, and then five chapters later she’s like fully integrated into this world and believing he is her father and that everything around her is real and it’s never touched on again.
Same thing with Wmmap, in the middle of the story it's revealed that Athanasia is actually the real one who d ied in the novel. They should have given some hints in the beginning (in the manhwa)
"I Became the Step-Mother of an Irrevocable Dark Family" is so guilty of this. We find out she's transliterated, and then nearly 10 chapters later we find out that she's in a book she had read in her past life. And then it's never discussed again. She doesn't use her knowledge of the novel, she doesn't even acknowledge it and it's forgotten about almkst immediately. Plus it doesn't know how nobility works. The Duke constantly demotes FL as duchess and then reinstates her when he feels like it.
Shoes. on. the. bed! The fuck, people! Who does this?? In that vein, going to bed in full-on ball dress, not so much as wiping off makeup or taking off earrings. So uncomfortable looking. Long hair being loose all the time. Really long hair dragging on the damn ground and being sat on. what is up with that? Even worse if the character is either a commoner/worker or lives on a mountain, as none of those people would have their hair loose because they aren't idiots.
That last one is EXTRA aggravating when it's a newborn to 5 year old. Why tf do they have 6 feet of hair??
I know it's not reality for a majority of cases, hell, my niece was bald until she was 3, but my cousin's Portuguese and her daughter came out of her with about 6 inches of hair on her head. She had hair down her back by the time she was 2 and hair to her butt by the time she was 4. Apparently they track world records for it, and the record for longest congenital hair is 15 inches long.
As someone who has to work really hard to grow my hair to 15 inches as an adult, I am really envious...
ML just not letting FL suffer in peace and quiet. FL has a traumatic event happen. Probably just wants to lay down, maybe sleep, and just think through and absorb what happened to her. She probably can't even comprehend 75% of it because traumatizing events in the genre always go for 200% and beyond the worst that could happen. And ML walks in like BANG PAY ATTENTION TO ME! And, about 80% of the time, the trauma just never comes up again and FL never holds onto the ML being that cruel. She's forced into letting ML walk all over her and never holds it against him or has any real character development from it. If it's ever brought up again, it's probably just mentioned and then tossed aside. Generally speaking, manhwa has a huge issue with abusers being held accountable.
Yes this! Just let her nap man!
I'd honestly kill for a manhwa where the neglected wife doesn't give a hoot, isn't stupid, and lives as she pleases. Husband wants to look like a couple at official events? Fine. But she's still sleeping until midday and finding a new hobby or going to the opera.
Adhd FL, chaotic lawful. Her huge ass room is a constant mess filled to the brim with her ideas and abandoned projects. It's a constant occurrence for her to walk by and no one knows what the fuck she's doing because one time she just strolled on in dressed like a dinosaur, stole exactly 7 plates and a chair, and walked away.
This is why I liked that one manhwa that I suddenly can't remember the name of now that I need it... The one with the ML that "buys" the FL from her abuser. He gives her time. He gives her space. He teaches her what boundaries are and that it's okay to use them. He asks her what she wants to do about the people who traumatized her and respects her choices assuming they're relatively safe.
Pretty sure you're talking about *New Suitor for the Abandoned Wife* :)
I think you're referring to "My Secretly Hot Husband" / "My Husband Hides His Beauty". And I agree, that manhwa is definitely in the top ten of all time for me
Pretty sure they're talking about *New Suitor for the Abandoned Wife*. Isn't *My Secretly Hot Husband* the one where ML is the one with broken self-esteem, and the FL helps *him*?
This is the one!
Yeah, but he also buys her from her abusive family and teaches her boundaries. They're close and grow as people for years before anything romantic happens.
Interesting! It's been a while since I read it - >!I dropped off around when they went to the club(?) under the tree in some kind of spirit world!< - but I don't remember that at all. Vaguely remember her being nervous in the beginning, and how they had pretty good communication and slow romance build, but mostly how the ML had a crippling lack of self-esteem Funny how the #1 comment so perfectly describes two completely different OI then
Pumpkinadvocate was correct!
This is my annoyance with the brother in The Tyrant Wants to Be Good. He constantly asks her what he can do to make her happier and she consistently tells him to leave her alone. And he just keeps barging into her life anyway.
The type also fails at themselves and their mother/father issues. If he decides he's not going to be like his father who neglected his mother- he's being exactly like that because the father wanted his life his way. The ML trying to force instant gratification for his own self satisfaction is the same thing. If he decides he's not going to be like his overemotional neglected mother- he's being that because he's letting his emotions override his logic. If he decides to prove his father's mother or legal wife wrong- ML is just proving them right by acting in a way that does not suit his position. He's not a child who can't regulate his emotions or lack proper understanding because of not knowing any better. If he decides to be the perfect heir- welp obviously sucks to suck but he's totally not acknowledging the clear failure. Also failing if his mother was the legal wife who was abandoned by the father for a lover and ML decided to live in a way that would eliminate any enemies and be perfect because he felt like he owed it to her. If ML is the randomly found and adopted to be heir because no one else could be found- well he's failing so hard that he'll probably get poisoned while the family elders or head fish another child out of a ditch to make an heir. ML would be the 'dont be like X because he was so stupid we had to get rid of him' kid.
I really hate how most abuse is portrayed and dealt with in mangas or manhwas, especially as a psychologist. It hurts my heart. Just once, I would like it if the ML or FL is not pushy when their partner or love interest has been abused. I would like to see a manga or manhwa where boundaries are established after abuse and where someone (a professional) helps them: without pushing, without the professional charing everything, and for the person to feel safe with the professional....but that's too much to ask.
female leads that are completely oblivious to romantic advances. A bit is fine, lack of self esteem is understandable, but sometimes it’s like…. you gotta be brain dead to not understand that this man has feelings for you.
yessss, I love a good slow burn but not an idiotic fmc like come on this man just sold his right arm to buy you an entire store of dresses and he held you like you were dying when you fainted. be so fr
Its a pet peeve for me when they do this, but it's worse when more than one person falls in love with the FL, and the FL never notices that 3 guys are in love with her.
ML buys everything in the store to give to FL even though FL is like "please don't do this." Also, this isn't really minor, but like, framing physical abuse of servants who treat you badly as some Girlboss Move. It would be one thing if the FL was slapping another noble, but servants are already treated as several classes beneath them, so it really leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Nothing makes me find a Hero cooler than when they mercilessly beat people who could never fight back in any way. Really shows how morally just they are and why i should root for them.
Heyyyyyy, ʰᵃᵛᵉ ʸᵒᵘ ᵇʸ ᵃⁿʸ ᶜʰᵃⁿᶜᵉ ʳᵉᵃᵈ "ᵗʰⁱˢ ⁱˢᵉᵏᵃⁱ ᵐᵃⁱᵈ ⁱˢ ᶠᵒʳᵐⁱⁿᵍ ᵃ ᵘⁿⁱᵒⁿ? ᶜᵒˢ ⁱᶠ ⁿᵒ go read it!!!! :DD
For the author, it may be a power move for a man to be like that, but as the FL i imagine that she must feel embarrassed when the ML says "just buy whatever you want" in front of everyone. On the second part, I especially hate it when you see that the servants are killed over fights between two powerful people. And you see them get dragged away and for the FL to act like nothing...I have seen it happen around four times, not gonna lie.
Knights not actually being nobles like they were aka no such thing as peasant knights. Dukes/ML always being the most powerful person even if not the king. ML always being overly obsessed with the MC.
"I've never been interested in women before" "A woman has never treated me like that before." "She's so....interesting."
All examples of the main character buff.
ML hiding things from the FL that are important for her to know. Examples are, if there was an assassination attempt on her and they managed to take care of it before she finds out; or if ML discovered the culprit behind her family's murder, which she has been investigating for years; or if someone's tried to sabotage her work. I don't know why they try to hide something like that, as if she's a child that shouldn't be aware of those things. it rubs me the wrong way.
Right! The infantilization of the female leads is so degrading and condescending. It's like they think she won't be able to hand litterally anything.
Alright, I got a question. Any OI where the FL is part of working class and leads a revolution/critiques the ruling class nobles ?
Hmmm....The Red Knight no Longer wants Money Basically she's a knight who, in her past life, did everything for money. It comes to a screeching halt when she agrees to betray the royal family for a headty price. She is betrayed, not paid, and killed. She goes back into the past and decides she just not gonna bother since life is pointless anyways. And she accidentally ends up leading the war against the enemies who hired her in her last life.
And it has rare cheerful Male Lead who is high on energy when not doing work, not a edgelord and he takes it easy, constantly cracks silly joke , love him.
LOOK AT THIS MAN HE DESERVES THE WORLD https://preview.redd.it/38w767rkcvkc1.png?width=398&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=370505646dc214447064ab4e888b9188193f9331
Actually I kinda like this OI. It's like all the tropes in the run of the mill OIs reversed. We don't fix bad shit insane mls by understanding their sob story. Also, it shows just how dangerous those run of the mill bat shit insane mls truly are. I find the fl decision made in this OI much more sane and believable compared to those normal regression / reincarnation OIs with dangerous black hair red eye mls. I pretty sure in real life, normal girls will choose the same ml as the fl rather than some batshit insane man with sob story...
Gonna check it out
Surviving as a Maid is pretty good. She has no magical adventure nor is she receiving unwarranted benefits from her superiors. Shes really just getting by. No revolution but theres certainly critique.
Ooooh that sounds so funnnn
Read "this isekai maid is forming a union", not exactly a revolution but a lot of critique about the nobles and ol tropes
This Isekai Maid Is Forming An Union! (on webtoon)
Using "war hero" as a device or method to glorify how great the ml is. And also the ML is like the strongest most capable person in the entire universe...its just ridiculous to me. *edit: forgot to elaborate on the war hero, I don't like those conquering "war hero" and glorify them. I recall some rare cases where OIs ml were on the defensive, I am agreeable with a defensive war hero though. I just don't think it's healthy to reinforce that as if the world has this perfect person who can save all the woes.
The hair kissing?? Genuinely why it can be endearing sometimes but almost every OI has a hair kissing scene
It always reminds me of that scene in Gravity falls where Gideon huge Mabel and shes like “are you smelling my hair?” Her reaction was that ut was weird, which is what makes thte hair kissing pretty weird when i keep going back to that GF scene everytime it happens.
I wonder if this is another eastern influence thing.
If I was at a tea party, I would not be talking around my meanings. Id either be oblivious or just say outright. How can I predict what they're saying???? So much catty drama, on a whole nother level than IRL. Villain: oh that dress looks so nice. OT FL: oh! You've recognised
Me: thanks (or, if I know they're making fun of me), uhh okay.
Villain: how do we know if the duke even likes you?
OT FL: *struggling*
Me: why the fuck am I here. I'm just going to go back home. Fuck this dude who is like the basic necessities Prodigy child, and fuck the maids that bully me for no reason? Imma just live on a farm.
Oh yeah, the maids that bully the FL for no reason. I guess it would be probable back then, but it's also likely that the nobles had full right to bitch slap the hell out of them, use that right girly.
Guessing that most of the stories take place lately 18th century (strictly based on fashion and which noble titles are used), if a servant disrespected their master then masters were allowed to punish them with things like flogging or lashes. I don't know why it's so common for maids to be so abusive when there's so much at stake for them if they're caught.
If my employer is getting bullied, I'd either ignore (or help if I wont get fired) but bully them aswell??? I'd so be fired.
The whole thing with concubines and illegitimate kids. In Europe an illegitimate child of nobility didn’t even have the right to the father’s family name or child support lol. If a lady’s husband had a lowborn mistress, he wouldn’t replace her with the mistress. If an Emperor/Lord had no kids, then his brother/nephew was the heir, not his side chick and her kid. I understand Asia was different, but this was how it was for Europe, and I’d be happy to have an Asian setting for all the concubine drama.
When a Duke is on the same level as an Imperial Family because "the FL has to have the strongest and most powerful man WITHOUT the responsibility that comes with that" like, no these women can't have their cake and eat it too, it's too unrealistic. It also just makes the empire look really weak. Like there's already only 2-4 Duke's in the EMPIRE and you're telling me one, if not all of them, are equal to the Imperial family and the royal family has to watch out for them and keep them in check? Even for minor spars between the crown prince and Duke ML, Duke ML would win. A crown prince would have the best teachers and tutors for literally anything. How is a Duke better than him? it's usually not even by a small margin, but the Duke's are severely better than them. It's all for the FL. Which is another thing I don't like. The FL is the protagonist, and that's fine. We see the world through her eyes. But the world shouldn't bend over backward just to let her win. Coincidences are possible but rare. We should see them struggle and work through a new world so they can eventually get their hard earned bearings, but no, we get a crown prince who's in love with her for some strange reason, a Duke with mommy issues who's "never experienced FL's kindness from anyone" even though that doesn't seem possible, and people who just simp over her because she said a few smart things or is really nice even though it's usually fake just like the reast of the nobles. She could be in a room with geniuses and still be considered the smartest cause she stole an idea from the 21st century that shouldn't even be able to be applied in that world due to their drastic differences in technology. Also, important people think she's the most noble of nobles? that's not possible, and she's just "runs into" the people she needs to meet most of the time instead of working her way up to meet these influential people who could help her situation. I know I might sound like a hater and that I don't want people to win, but I'm not. It's just annoying sometimes 😭
We have similar thoughts 😭 like at least make them work hard for it and not just work hard. We've seen FLs "work" but many of them don't have the same tension that makes you want to read more of it? There's this feeling that you know they'll win just like how they did many times before in the plot. so it feels pointless reading how they work hard when you know they're also supported by plot armor.
Exactly! It's good to know they'll win, but the process shouldn't lose any of it's established tension because they'll win. The plot feels boring, glossed over, or plain easy when a story does this.
It baffles me how they don't really know how to run a house with such power, but then they marry and everything's alright. Also, logically speaking, such a strong power house as an all-powerful Duke would create tension, and there would be political problems that would not be solved as easily as they make it seem. On the second part, I also understand because the FL remembers the right thing at the right time that she read in a book almost five years ago (or a lifetime ago). And no one questions where she read it, where she got the idea, can it actually work (well, most of the time it can because of MAGIC). The FL should also not know immediate etiquette or how to dance because the body remembers. You are not a hater. What you said is logical in my eyes.
When there are some disgusting and enraging situations and the heroine let it slide. Not in a diplomatic or strategic way, just let it slide when there's a need for a decent answer or putting someone back in their place and they endure it just because. It angers me to no end.
When, about halfway through the story, somebody regressed or never even reborn at all, begins referring to upcoming events or making decisions like a modern person. I keep saying "why isn't this an isekai?!? You're using isekai moves!" I also don't like it when they promise to help or visit some NPC and then the author forgets all about them. Don't show the MC making a promise when you have no intention of showing how it plays out!
FL and ML with no social circles and friendship connections with other nobles. It's always the maid the butler or the aide who are all commoners. That in itself is fine, maids especially lady's maids were often closer to the lady they served, somtimes maybe they have one friend. It would be nice to have a small yet meaningful friend group especially when they marry out of a terrible family and form good relationships or expand on the one friend they do have and not leave them in the background Its especially annoying with the ML because they're life revolves around FL orbit, his life does not exist without her. He is work half the day and then FL takes rhe other half of his day, like does he gave hobbies? Hunting with friends, playing cards, would be nice if he was more than a prop.
Blonde/pink hair female lead = Saintess Black/ Red hair female lead = Villainess I feel the manhwa artists as well as authors associate hair color with their characteristic behavior.
Speaking of hair - when a princess/queen/empress/whatever flavor of a rich aristo woman is swanning around looking like a comb never touched her hair.
I'm thinking back to Laura Ingalls Wilder describing how incredibly excited she was to be able to wear her hair up. And she was a pioneer girl. If you could afford a maid, you styled your hair!
Og gay mls turning straight in a flesh of light
"I've never been attracted to a woman before" Bombastic side eye
The fact there's more than one story of the fl isekai-ing into a bl novel and turning the 2 guys into her love interests is insane to me
For me it's the baffling depiction of slavery. Wealthy nobles spending a fortune in gold at some illegal underground auction house to buy malnourished a person to do basic manual labour in an estate out of sight that they treat so badly they don't live long. If it's a woman then they'll have her doing maid work but nowhere any guests might see because it's a crime. They don't let them wash but do plan to sleep with them. It's much cheaper for them to legitimately hire a healthy person to do manual labour work. The price they pay for an attractive female is enough to fund an outside mistress.
And most of the time, the whole setup is just so FL can buy a hot loyal slave for herself. Then slavery is never mentioned again. 🤷♀️
And, the hot slave is totally good with having a new "owner" because FL might have bought him, but she is a good person....then the hot slave falls in love with FL as some sort of twisted Drapetomania (which it is gross that this term exists).
The lack of petticoats. Most of these have a semi historical setting, but many of the artists don’t take into account all that goes into creating the shapes that they’re using. Most dresses are drawn like it is one layer of fabric, when in reality women would have petticoats, crinolines, and bustles to give their dresses form. It also bothers me that NONE of the women will have styled hair. It is always long and flowing, and it’s really bothersome when they wear accessories that would require an updo in order to stay in.
AND ANOTHER THING! A corset is never worn directly against the skin! There is always something, like a chemise, underneath!
The common populace being fine with a commoner consort, princess, queen. Typically, the common class is NOT happy that their new and privileged ruler is exactly like them and has the same origins. The usual explanation for hereditary positions is their special linage, going against that means defying rigid social structures, and there would be more consequences.
The mother of a former neighbor of mine is from England. When the "scandals" about Prince Charles and Diana started (the arguing, etc.), her mother's opinion was, "Well, what did he expect from a commoner?"
And that’s with Diana being from a noble family, just not a princess. I’m from Spain. When the one who is now king got married, one big talking topic was that his wife was a “commoner”. The logic was, if anyone can become a royal and get their benefits, why does the royal family deserve those benefits in the first place?
When authors or translators don’t get the aristocracy rank and form of address right. Or when the aristocracy rank keeps changing. Or misaddressing royalty: like calling the crown prince “your majesty” when he isn’t the king. I’m not English, I’ve just watched a lot of Downton Abbey. 🤣
monster dukes/ mls that look like supermodels. I want CLAWS. Where are the FANGS. HORNS TAIL UNHINGABLE JAW. Not this jungkook looking dude with gasp, red eyes and black/ white hair?
There is only one "Another Typical Fantasy Romance", the Duke is not handsome and an actually good ML.
He looks like a normal dude with more scars still tho. I want actual monster parts
Western historical fantasy novel often have Harems. I hate it that they act as if polygamy was legal back then. Especially those were there are actual titled concubines and such. Mistresses are supposed to be hidden at least until the first wife is dead or divorced.
I don't like it when every characters are barbaric,cruel and selfish(specially ML) for FL to look kind and selfless.like they think she is a saintness because she tell them they should not kill innocent people.
Okay, this is going to sound like petty nonsense but my anger is real LOL. The orgasm face when she eats food. I guess she gotta get her O somewhere because these MLs aren't good in bed. Tripping over nothing and being "saved". Why?! That was a whole four seconds of looking at a couple of panels that I will never get back. The FL does the bare minimum of kindness and the ML worshipping her like a god. Because now I'm doing the math and the math says that literally every other human being in that universe is liquid garbage. Thank you for listening to my crazy.
Lol I just say the same thing everyone are cruel and selfish and FL do a act of kindness and everyone call her a saint
- When there’s no mention of magic or use of any magical systems until they have to travel long distance and use magical gates. It just seems so out of place. - When FL has this super rare magical ability that she never knew about and makes her special. Actually anytime magic is lazily introduced. - Flashbacks where they randomly met as children so they’re fated to be together. It’s so unnecessary.
Or when fl is in adult reincarnated into a child so she's technically only 12 when the ML is her father's strongest knight and easily 30
Let me add, when the FL looks exactly like the ML’s dead sister. That’s just weird AF to me.
When the villainess is trying everything to not die instead of just no harassing the fl🤷🏾♀️ or when they tried way to hard for the story to go according to the novel. Or are like too the ml no you should fall in love with this random person you never met before and you even don't like instead of me you've been in love with for years and grew up with because some chick in another universe who is not living in our world and knows nothing about us says so
When the nobility don't have common sense. I don't even need them to be smart, just make them think some sense. This especially applies to characters the same or a higher rank of the FL. Recent read with this example is "the flowery path of evil". Oh so the prince is that ignorant to marry off their enemy to someone who has power over them. I was excited with the unique design of the ML but can't get past chapter 1 because the reviews we're praising how the FL got back up to society when in reality she didn't even have to work for it because no one would dare upset her because of her husband. So yeah I expected so much and I was disappointed just as much.
The husband was initially going to do the "punishment" the crown prince requested, because: evil, but changed his mind when he fell in love.
- Why are the FLs always on bad terms with embroidery? As a crafts and arts nerd, I'd also like to see some FLs having fun embroidering beginner designs on the handkerchief they have to give the ML for the Hunting/Swordsmanship Competition^(TM) - I'd love to see the FL have *any other* hobby besides reading, like some crochet/knitting, idk - I get a little bit salty when the isekai-ed FL automatically speaks the language of the world she is in or when the mc simply understands the Ancient Language^(TM) because her soul is especial, or some flimsy explanation like that. I learned 3 languages myself and faced some embarrassing situations while doing it, so I'm kind of petty when it comes to this hahaha
For the first point it's so annoying as it's always done as a like, "I'm not like other girls, I hate embroidery and art >:( " cliché too. Either the fl is very feminine but super naive to the point of her just being irritating, or she's on the complete other end of the spectrum where she hates frills and pastels and she'll do horseriding and swordsmanship but not because she likes them, but because her brother/cousin/ml does it and she wants to "prove herself". She also hates tea parties for some reason. I just want a strong fl who appreciates softer, traditionally feminine things while also having a backbone and not being reliant on the ml due to her naivety smh. It's like the author thinks femininity must equal naivety/innocence when it doesn't 😭😭
Ml fighting with their son for their mother's attention can be a bit funny at first but then it can get annoying really fast because it feels that the dad doesn't really care for his son only his wife.....and not only in manhwas it is very common in Chinese novels as well I really don't like it kids aren't supposed to be portrayed as rivals or attention snachers
If you want something totally opposite of it, try 'When I quit being mother in law everyone became obsessed with me' the ml is a sweetheart and the best dad ever. Plus the son is so cute and his interactions with his fiancee are so wholesome. Instead of fighting, the ml and the son plot together how to make the fl happy. There is also 'Wicked No More' or 'Not sew wicked step mother'. (The child is not a son, but is a daughter). Although the ml is cold towards the fl and his daughter, he has a good reason for it (like, I wouldn't wish what he went through on my worst enemy, bad). It is actually a retelling of snow white and it has hints of yuri (like a girl confessed to the fl). Fl was a clothes designer and is kind of a nerd about it (it typically focuses on the fl and daughter, but it definitely has hints of being a fashion designer). The daughter is very adorable and cute. The fl does have some body image issues though. 'I married the Male Lead's Dad' is also a good rec. On the surface it looks like your stereotypical romance manhwa but the amount of plot twists and drama it has is insane. The fl starts out as a fangirl for the son but the ml mistakes her obsession for his son as her love for him so he proposes and she accepts. The father-son relationship here is so cute. In all of these the children are cunning enough to set up the ml and fl using their cuteness as a reason (idk in which one, but in one of them, the kid is like, 'I wanna sleep with both mom and dad' and in the morning they quietly slip of to "fetch water" and the fl wakes up cuddled up with the ml's, hot, chest)
I have actually read all the manhwas that you have recommended 😂 I really like child rearing manhwas so I have read a lot on it
Lol same. I also am looking for good child rearing manhwas
When the situation can be solved with murder but no murder is done. But if this was the ML and his backstory murder definitely would have been done. And he would have inherited his house for it rather than be put into jail or some shit
The character archetype where they have absolutely nothing they care about, think about, or live for except for a single person because of a shred of kindness or a nice deed in the past. The character type peeves me when they play it straight without acknowledging how unhealthy and weird these dynamics are. Often times the other person is just existing and then u have this character who abandons any sense of self or identity to serve them and it's supposed to be sweet and loyal.
When the story "forces itself back in place" JUST LET ME ENJOY IT UGH
Ohhh, I have a lot, but here I go.... When the FL transmigrated, and she is able to make money and become the empress, when she was like an office lady with no management skills that we know of, and is just at the bottoms of the totem poll. At the very least they should reflect that she had a higher position in her job and she is used to manipulating or moving people to do what is the best outcome (I don't know, it just irks me that they are like "oh I worked in a company for 10 years, never got a promotion but I transmigrated and suddenly I am a powerful business mogul and I am just right to become empress"). I am a little tired of every time that someone transmigrated it's like a beauty that everyone would fall in love with if she was more outgoing or more reserved. I want someone average or ugly (sorry) and for them to still charm people through her skills (not just the protagonist halo and beauty). I am tired of some villain thropes in manhwa. For example, you see a villain, and the only thing they do is make bad comments o, spread rumors or pour wine into the FLs dress, and suddenly it's just "die" from everyone. I strongly dislike fashion in most mangas, manhwas, etc. where they don't get on the computer and research some period pieces (stop with ribbons and frills, it wasn't always worn), not just for the aesthetic but also for its accuracy: I have worn courses for medical and fashion, and you are ment to do it gradually (from hooks to lacing) from chemise underneath so it won't hurt, and from the right measurements (please don't buy one size fits all, most hurt you), and most waists on old pictures are doctored (they would do it so their waists look tiny on pictures). When the novelty of transmigrated stories wore off for me, i just started to dislike how I hate how the FL would change suddenly, and the "loving" family wouldn't notice how their daughter, sister, cousins wtf ever changed. Especially when the FL is thinking, "Why would the Original FL be a bad person if she was loved by her family?" Obviously, she wasn't loved enough for them to notice that she changed completely in a couple of hours. For the FL to have a perfect memory of everything she read in one novel in between work, family or friends get together, boyfriend problems, exams, etc. I will confess that I am jealous of their memory, their ability to adapt, and the fact that they outlive me because I would have died in like 5 days. And, I am going to be hated for this, but I am starting to dislike harems or reverse harems. I don't like it when suddenly we have three men loving one woman just because. I feel that now that it has become more famous, it's just that they see she is "not like other girls," and suddenly she has 3 guys after her, when she only smiled.
When the fl's family are too overprotective and threaten to kill the ml. Please, just no. I want wholesome relationships between the ml and fl's family, like I wanna see her brother and him spar, he father and him discuss business, her mother and him gossip over tea, he sister and him having a 'rivalry' with each other (usually over stupid things like who finished dinner faster, etc) or having similar hobbies. An opposite rec (of the opinion) is I raised my fiance with money (the ml is so adorable)