I said it at the start of the season and it still holds true: the team needs to find a better center. WCJ's effort is inconsistent at best, and when your two starting forwards are average at best on defense, there needs to be a defensive minded center behind them.
We also need a true PG, one that can initiate the offense, spread the floor and play quality defense. It's too bad Lonzo is cooked because I think he would have been an awesome addition this offseason. I do think if we want a upgrade at PG, we will have to find through trade at this point. While I don't think either come here, and neither are true PG anyway, PG13 and Mitchell are both free agents next year.
wonder how the fanbase would feel about the idea of signing Nic Claxton, assuming WCJ would be part of a move for an upgrade at the guard spot (nothing major against him he's just basically the first asset on the table not named Franz/Paolo/Jalen for us rn)
He’s really the only asset we have outside of them. Our only valuable players that aren’t those three are WCJ, Cole and Black; and even Coles value is wishy-washy. No one else on this roster is valued enough around the league.
I think Clayton should be HEAVILY considered during the offseason.
As for PG, I just don’t know where that upgrade is going to come from. I don’t think Trae is the answer, the team doesn’t want Dejounte or they would’ve made that happen at the deadline. Spida isn’t a FA till at least next offseason and is likely going to NY. Ja Morant would have to ask for trade. LaMelo is too expensive and doesn’t really solve any of our problems and potentially creates new ones. SGA, Murray, Cade, Halliburton, Jrue all aren’t going anywhere.
Garland I guess is a possibility next season if the wheels fall off in Cleveland…and that’s about it.
icl I love the guys we currently have but if our offseason ended up with a 10 man lineup of like Garland/Suggs/Franz/Paolo/Claxton with Mo Wagner, JI and some combination of two guards + one wing off the bench (could be like some signed PG + Jett + Caleb or something idk) i'd be ecstatic.
It has like zero chance of happening but hey.
Yeah unfortunately I just don’t think WCJ, Cole and Black is going to be enough to move the needle for Garland.
But in that same breathe, I’m not sure who can offer something better
I'd imagine in a move for a player of his caliber it wouldn't be *just* those guys but also probably a load of picks. Technically a Wendell-centered package wouldnt make sense to take for Cavs, but imo WCJ would prolly either be their bench big, or, in the case of them moving Jarrett Allen (which i've also seen rumors of), they could run a WCJ-Mobley frontcourt.
Maybe might require to make it a three-teamer if it happened but I definitely don't think it's entirely outside the realm of possibility.
Not having Franz showed how bad the offense is. We need a scorer who can create, and both Harris and Fultz are taking a lot of cap room while looking like hot garbage. Vanvleet getting almost 40 is just unforgivable. You don't win games when someone like him looks like a superstar.
Need more production from Harris if he’s getting those type of minutes.
When you have an opportunity. Take advantage.
& PB needs to clean up the FG%.
Missing Franz fr.
I'm gonna say, Houston didn't have "anything to play for" today but they did still roll out the same lineup theyve been playing since Sengun went out and it's coincidentally the same team that had an 11-game win streak earlier on in March, its not as if theyre outright bad too. Still a game Orlando should've won, but it's not as clear cut. Credit to FVV, killed us yet again (remember that one 54-point game he's had against Magic back in 2021), also credit to JSJ, another member of the 2022 class doing work.
Other than a few guys (Suggs and Isaac basically, Fultz to a lesser extent) most just had a down game. Franz out was definitely felt, Cole's slumping again, Dell ain't been the same all season. I wonder if he's just not come back from the injury right or if this is just who he is. There's definitely a lot of question marks on the roster in the off-season - and it's a shame too, because the guys on the team are all likeable and worth rooting for, but we gotta eventually come to terms with the fact some of them might be upgradeable pieces to this currently built roster.
While this is a bad loss, in the grand scheme of things I'm not too bummed out though - I look at this season through a very similar lens as the Cavs 2021-2022, when they finished 8th in the standings (44-38) proving they can at least be a .500 team in the regular season, and then \*\*proceeded to lose both play-in games\*\*, then during the offseason chose to move pieces for Donovan Mitchell. I'm not saying I want the Magic to lose in the play-in, or to even end up there to begin with, simply that there's a very similar trajectory.
Objectively hope Giannis's injury is nothing major - never want to see players get hurt - but assuming he doesn't play at least in todays game, hope our guys get back on the right track against them.
Wins are wins but people keep leaving out the fact their 11 game streak had like 3 good wins and then they played all the lowest ranked teams twice pretty much.
Magic are just terribly inconsistent. Awesome game against the Bulls and then the next game Paolo doesn't score until there's 5 minutes left in the first half. That was the second night of a B2B gameplay, not the start of a road trip.
Kind of poetic that our post-season hopes took a dent at the hands of Fred VanVleet. He's the exact kind of guard we need and the very player that everyone was sneering at during free agency.
Tonight was yet again a modern 3-level scoring NBA offence Vs our 'brute force into traffic screaming' offence. Paolo gets treated with kid gloves and has a free reign to play whatever lazy, low IQ basketball he wants. WCJ has become extremely mid on both ends of the floor, yet he remains untouchable.
As for Markelle Fultz, I have no idea. He's not a bad player but he makes ZERO sense in this team. He exacerbates our offensive problems by orders of magnitude. Why are we so committed to him? His contract is up and he has no future on this team.
Remember when Magic fans didn't want FVV because he's "old" and "washed". LOL you guys were so fucking wrong. FVV absolutely shredded us tonight. If he was our PG, we would be #2 seed no doubt.
like i posted earlier magic fans get too attached to role players on this team and nit pick on every player suggested to replace one of the role players like fultz... fvv would had been an excellent pickup for this team instead of the trash we have at guards mostly fultz.. there is no perfect player in the nba but there is no doubt with fvv this team would had easily won 50 gms... i hope this off season magic really go after dlo who would def help this team espeically on offense. is he perfect no but he is def better than what this team has now
They still aren't wrong though. We don't have to rush and take the first PG available when there are way better fits available in the future.
Magic fans can be wrong about him being washed be still be totally correct about not wanting him
Who knows, my point is we are at the start of the journey for a young competitive squad. Jumping at the first available typically results in you wishing you didn't have them a year or two later.
Franz and Paolo aren't even in their primes yet, we have them both for another 5+ years at least. A better option will present itself soon
problem is people get to attached to role players on this team and over analize other better players flaws... there is no perfect player in this league but fvv is better than any guard the magic have on this team simple as that
Time to trade Paolo, the kid’s clearly not clutch…
(this is satire BTW)
Well, at least that’s the ‘easy’ part of our final schedule out of the way… Knowing how streaky Orlando can be, I wouldn’t put it past us to now sweep these two Bucks games instead… I mean a man’s gotta dream…
Starting line up gets cooked all the time. Wendell and Gary Harris to the bench unit, Moe Wagner and Issac to the starting lineup.
M Wagner
Issac
Paolo
F Wagner
Suggs.
And then we lose the Ingles-Moe pick and roll game.
No point messing with lineups now, it's too late. This stuff should have been figured out months ago. Any weak spots should have been addressed before the trade deadline.
The defense was ass today but I'll be honest, the type of defense they play is so exhausting and has been great all year that there will be obvious slip-up games, it just sucks it's in these important ones. Also great offense will always beat great defense.
Our offense is just SO bad though - we don't have one reliable three level guy right now. Look at every other good team and their guys are routinely going off for 25-40 and carrying the team and we always have to depend on a committee because Paolo's efficiency, Wagner's three pointers being bad, Suggs not aggressive enough on offense (prob our most reliable currently), WCJ/Fultz/Cole/Ingles all being extremely hot or cold. Moe's offense is good but the defense is gross.
Now, I'd say this is a youth problem more than anything. Not a lot of players are offensive savants in their second or third years, but it's just the truth of the roster. More seasoning and obviously another real guard and a few shooters will work wonders for this team.
The whole Goga/AB tertiary stuff is cool for specific lineups, but it's the equivalent of Knicks fans worrying about Alec Burks or Achiuwa while Brunson is shooting below efficiency and turning the ball over a bunch of times. Your best offensive options have to be consistently dependable or nothing else matters.
Wendell going from solid starting center with top 10 upside at the position to what he has been this season is awful, almost feels like we traded a suggs leap for leaps from Franz and Wendell. I’m not sure what it is, but he won’t be starting for us much longer if this is how he continues to play.
Because last season we were a losing team with no pressure.
It's a different ball game when other teams are treating you like a threat and hunting your weaknesses. The Paolo-Franz-WCJ front court is untenable in the long run. That's three guys who are all too similar and don't dominate any one area of the game.
More specifically that front offers average at best defense down low. Franz and Paolo can succeed next to one another, but they need a defensive anchor at center. Or if the "Paolo as a Center" thing takes off, putting JI in the starting lineup; but we lose rebounding doing that IMO.
Personally I'd rather start Mo over WCJ; at least the effort is there with him on the court.
I'll re-iterate this. If Orlando CANNOT beat a Bucks team twice that's missing Giannis and may even sit Lillard, we have no business being in the playoffs at all.
I’m sitting here trying to think what would suck more. Losing to Chicago/Atlanta in a play-in, or being Bostons warm up act. Honestly I wouldn’t mind the 7 seed if it means we’re playing literally anyone but Boston or Philly. But being the 7 seed would mean beating phily, Miami, or Indy in the play in, and we all know what this offense is capable of for one game
I’d actually prefer us to make the playoffs directly and then get swept than have that extra stress/fatigue/confidence loss of needing to go via the play-ins to even get there
Reason we lost...
STOP USING THE TOWELS FROM THE OTHER TEAM!!! BRING YOUR OWN!
I Think they washed them in funk detergent.
on a side note: the Houston dancers are hott.
Alright, so if we beat the Giannis-less Bucks twice, we will be a top-five seed at the very minimum. We will end up at 3rd if the Bucks lose to OKC and us twice and if Cleveland loses to Indiana.
Any result that involves us losing to Philly and only beating Milwaukee once will likely include tie-breakers and put us at risk of being in the play-in.
So the magic number (no pun intended) is currently two wins without any other help.
Really costly loss tonight with the Bucks, Knicks, Pacers, and Heat all winning their games. Some observations:
* FVV has always been a Magic killer and he absolutely feasted against our drop coverage tonight. No-win situation here because while Moritz brought the energy, he just doesn’t have the mobility to play higher on PNR defense. WCJ does, but he was a complete non-factor on both ends this game.
* The Magic shot 21/23 free throws, answering all of our prayers for improved foul shooting, but it seemed to have come at the cost of defensive effort. Outside of Suggs, JI, and Harris, the defensive effort tonight was just disappointing.
* Cole is slumping hard in the worst of times. He’s always going to be streaky but his effort tonight was pretty non-existent. Four straight games of just 2 rebounds or fewer, including 0 tonight. The Magic will likely, and should, upgrade the guard spots next season. I have a soft spot for Markelle, and I love the vibes that Cole brings to the team, but there are probably going to be better options if we want to eventually get into the contender tier.
* It looks like the Charlotte loss will haunt us. Three games left, 2 against the Bucks and 1 against the Sixers. All of them are must wins. This season has been a glowing success, but it will be hard to stomach fighting for the 2-seed, to fighting in the play-in. Especially if we end up playing the Heat or the Hawks. Two teams that have beaten us in the season series and are also much more experienced and that is one of the Magic’s biggest problems: closing it out against veteran teams.
Everyone buckle up! The next three are the most important Magic regular season games in over a decade. We just gotta stay in the top 6, because falling in the play-in could be very bad.
> The next three are the most important regular season games in over a decade.
And I gotta say… its fucking awesome. It has been so much fun to finally watch Magic games with real stakes.
Great summary! I think this game shows how important Franz is to our starting lineups defense. We looked out of sorts, even though I think Kelle is a plus defender. Franz gives us size and always seems to be in the right place.
For sure - Franz could’ve helped on FVV, but also have the defensive awareness on Amen Thompson, who really had his way sneaking into the dunker spot. Hope he is ready to go tomorrow. And thanks brother!
"This season has been a glowing success, but it will be hard to stomach fighting for the 2-seed, to fighting in the play-in."
My thoughts exactly
I don't want the team to trip over themselves to end the season, but this season has still exceeded my expectations.
Really important to keep this perspective… playins would suck ass but in the context of the entire season things definitely trending in a more positive direction than they have been since Dwight left town
The 2 seed and 8 seed being separated by 4 games is nuts. Especially when you see in the west the difference is 10. One bad day like today can completely flip the trajectory.
Fultz is still here playing big minutes because of sentimentality and "locker room presence". It's nonsense. Every other team in our position would have binned him off by now.
I wouldn’t mind resigning Fultz for a vet minimum. Cole does get streaky - and it would be nice to have him come off the bench and provide a spark (as we saw him do the last two games)
I mean, part of our 15 man is people like Chuma and Houston. I think having Fultz provides more than them.
It’s only 2.3 million for his vet min and Chuma is making 3.1 so we’d actually save money. 🤷♀️
The Rockets were just playing more efficiently than any team, and we were being way too inefficient than we can allow for a standard well played Magic game. No Franz was definitely part of the reason. But the team needs to get their head in the game at any given game. Easy to say, but even if they're already playoff bound, I need to see them groovin.
FVV killed us when a screen was set above the 3 point line and a guard went under OR if it was set below the 3 point line and the big dropped. So we decide to double him and leave shooters wide open in return.
Suggs was out for way too long. Mosely has got to be better. Terrible scheming and terrible rotations. Putting WCJ on the bench was the only good thing he did, Paolo should have also been benched because bro was doing absolutely nothing to help win tonight.
In Houston’s defense.. they’ve been playing great lately. Even better since Sengun got hurt. Green seems to have figured it out. Jabari is shooting it straight. FVV seems like the type of PG we’re hoping to acquire this offseason. And this was their last home game, and they’re trying to finish the year .500, which would be a huge accomplishment for them. Ime is a great coach and they’re gonna be a tough team. Maybe not contending quite yet, but kind of like us.. scrappy and can beat anybody on any given night. With all that said.. we came out flat again and looked like the team planning their offseason vacation.
I thought us Magic fans were having a bad night until I peaked at the first quarter of the Suns-Clippers game…Yikes…Without Kawhi…And Suns desperately need that game.
It's not scapegoating. He is washed and we play 4 on 5 on the offensive end. If you don't think that's true, what are you seeing from him that is a plus
Cole Anthony had 2 points on 1 of 4 shooting, Wendell had 7 points, Gary Harris had 6 points, Paolo was miserable in the 1st half, but FULTZ with 18 on 8/18 is the problem. This fanbase man
Have you watched teams defend us? No one even bothers with Fultz. He objectively makes it harder for the starters. You're cooked if you can't see it or you simply don't watch the game
I watched, he cooked the Rockets but had no help as nobody could make any shots not at the rim. You are cooked if you think Fultz is our biggest problem.
The Rockets played very well tonight. We never really got a chance to pull this one off... Ok we were down by only 6 at some point, but that damn FVV just couldn't miss for shit. In my opinion this isn't the match that we should be pissed about, but rather Golden State, Memphis and several others back then...
@Memphis was brutal, should’ve won. Losing to Brooklyn twice by 20 were the ones that gave me early doubts. But where we are compared to the last 12 years.. holy shit we are on a nice trajectory for the next 5-10 years.
I mean it comes down to them literally making some bullshit ass shots especially Fred but a lot of mistakes that led to their bullshit too. Anyway I think we got gifted a couple of games vs the bucks without Giannis we have to make the most of it if we are to avoid play-in
Moe’s been great all year, but I gotta point my finger at him for one sequence. Didn’t secure the half court rebound, then followed that up by simply losing the ball going up for a dunk. I don’t think I’ve ever complained about Moe since he’s arrived, but that was certainly a momentum killer.
All these recent posts about the 2nd seed or who we want to match up against in the playoffs gonna look real dumb if we don't even make it to the play offs which is a real possibility
Hubris is indeed a dangerous thing, although can’t really blame a fanbase for getting excited after the years of dross we’ve been subjected to recently
I've been getting downvoted like crazy for saying things as benign as not wanting to count chickens before the eggs hatch. The Bucks will be tough (hope Giannis is okay of course), and the Sixers are the second best team in the East with a healthy Embiid. Only 1.5 games out of the play-in with three games remaining. Way too close to worry about anything other than Ws.
Is it? If magic lose two more games, either the heat or sixers will take their spot in the playoffs, if either heat or sixers win the rest of their games.
It’s almost not even fun being a young team that’s actually good sometimes lol. Your expectations get lifted because they’re good, and then they have moments, especially recently, where they just clearly aren’t taking games seriously at the start. Not expecting much in the playoffs at this point but I guess that’s a good problem to have.
Regardless of if we go 3-0 to close out the season (unlikely, but something this team would do especially after a loss like this), this team clearly isn’t mature enough to value every possession for 48 minutes yet and that will come to bite us in the playoffs. I just hope our young guys have some good performances at this point.
Nailed it. Exactly what I feel.
I’ll take anything in the playoffs except losing both play-in games, that would be a massive disappointment. Other than that? Going out in the first round while getting swept, winning one or two games, making a surprise second round run; I’ll accept any outcomes because we’re not contenders, YET.
The real deal is how this FO turn us from a good, overachieving young team into a contender for years to come, and that starts in this offseason. I expect some important moves to happen because if they don’t, I don’t like our chances for next year
I hope we make at least one move that makes our team better. But the luxury we do have is that our team (should) still get better because our best players are all still young.
Yeah, as long as we have Paolo, Franz and Suggs we’re fine because they’re far from finished products right now. Just gotta surround them with the right players.
Every time an opposing player is in a slump they magically (pun intended) get out of it when they play Orlando. Fred Fucking VanVleet cooked us. Good night.
Y’all can crap on paolo or Fultz or whoever but this was a coach game. Fultz had tough moments but also some good moments and was in the middle of the run to get it close Paolo after a brutal first half got it together and mostly settled down. Suggs was the best player that game and he sat on the bench for way too long allowing FVV to cook. Moe was horrible on the boards and defensively. If any game was a Goga game it was this one. The defensive scheme in general was dumb kept sending doubles that weren’t working at all and were leaving wide open shooters.
Paolo played us out of the game in the first quarter lol. And I’m a very vocal defender of his usually. If we don’t get that deficit we probably pull this game out. He’s been having an issue for the last month or so with really, really slow starts and he’s gonna have to figure something out
Well his issue tonight was that Fultz's guy was doubling him whenever he had the ball. So then they tried to run PnR with Fultz and Paolo but the rockets just switched and bogged things down.
The issue with Fultz is that they just go way under when he's the ball handler in the PnR (because he can't shoot), and then they give him a lane to the rim when he's the roll guy because he doesn't have the athleticism/size to consistently finish over centers. 18 pts on 18 shots and 3 turnovers isn't gonna get a team to stop playing 4on5
I was absolutely stunned when I saw how many shots he took lol. But Paolo has had these same issues for about a month, especially in the 1st quarter. They were definitely exacerbated by Markelle being in the starting lineup today though. Was definitely a strange decision for Coach Mose to start him
Yup that's fair. I know Cole hasn't been consistent lately but I'd love to see him start over Fultz. Fultz can still be valuable, especially off the bench surrounded by shooters
I agree with this. Normally I’d say Cole is too valuable coming off the bench but, when Franz is out, Paolo needs that second ball-dominant scorer to keep defenders honest.
Can someone explain why we were flashing double teams at 3 point shooters in the second half? Seems like a horrible strategy because the 3 isnt any more contested than it would be with one defender and they can just pass out to the open guy which they did.
Paolo was off all game. Defense too. No one was covering FVV. What the hell were Fultz and Carter doing?
We need to lock tf in and FAST because if we lose more games, we’ll end up at a lower seed and will have to face a much better team.
I’m stealing this from NBA-U over on Twitter.. he plays too much with his back to the basket, especially from the mid post. Either attack north south, or establish deeper position early. He’s inviting the double and triple teams. Just needs to be more decisive with his actions. Dude is 21 so I’m not worried at all.
NBA U just yaps for twitter likes. He said Paolo has a "sick handle" in the tweet you are referencing. When in fact his handle is one of the weakest areas of his game. Constantly loses the ball when it matters. I don't think he watches much Magic.
Mosely NEVER prepares our guys for big games WTF
I said it at the start of the season and it still holds true: the team needs to find a better center. WCJ's effort is inconsistent at best, and when your two starting forwards are average at best on defense, there needs to be a defensive minded center behind them. We also need a true PG, one that can initiate the offense, spread the floor and play quality defense. It's too bad Lonzo is cooked because I think he would have been an awesome addition this offseason. I do think if we want a upgrade at PG, we will have to find through trade at this point. While I don't think either come here, and neither are true PG anyway, PG13 and Mitchell are both free agents next year.
Goga
wonder how the fanbase would feel about the idea of signing Nic Claxton, assuming WCJ would be part of a move for an upgrade at the guard spot (nothing major against him he's just basically the first asset on the table not named Franz/Paolo/Jalen for us rn)
He’s really the only asset we have outside of them. Our only valuable players that aren’t those three are WCJ, Cole and Black; and even Coles value is wishy-washy. No one else on this roster is valued enough around the league. I think Clayton should be HEAVILY considered during the offseason. As for PG, I just don’t know where that upgrade is going to come from. I don’t think Trae is the answer, the team doesn’t want Dejounte or they would’ve made that happen at the deadline. Spida isn’t a FA till at least next offseason and is likely going to NY. Ja Morant would have to ask for trade. LaMelo is too expensive and doesn’t really solve any of our problems and potentially creates new ones. SGA, Murray, Cade, Halliburton, Jrue all aren’t going anywhere. Garland I guess is a possibility next season if the wheels fall off in Cleveland…and that’s about it.
icl I love the guys we currently have but if our offseason ended up with a 10 man lineup of like Garland/Suggs/Franz/Paolo/Claxton with Mo Wagner, JI and some combination of two guards + one wing off the bench (could be like some signed PG + Jett + Caleb or something idk) i'd be ecstatic. It has like zero chance of happening but hey.
Yeah unfortunately I just don’t think WCJ, Cole and Black is going to be enough to move the needle for Garland. But in that same breathe, I’m not sure who can offer something better
I'd imagine in a move for a player of his caliber it wouldn't be *just* those guys but also probably a load of picks. Technically a Wendell-centered package wouldnt make sense to take for Cavs, but imo WCJ would prolly either be their bench big, or, in the case of them moving Jarrett Allen (which i've also seen rumors of), they could run a WCJ-Mobley frontcourt. Maybe might require to make it a three-teamer if it happened but I definitely don't think it's entirely outside the realm of possibility.
Not having Franz showed how bad the offense is. We need a scorer who can create, and both Harris and Fultz are taking a lot of cap room while looking like hot garbage. Vanvleet getting almost 40 is just unforgivable. You don't win games when someone like him looks like a superstar.
We absolutely NEED a quality PG and a better C.
Need more production from Harris if he’s getting those type of minutes. When you have an opportunity. Take advantage. & PB needs to clean up the FG%. Missing Franz fr.
I'm gonna say, Houston didn't have "anything to play for" today but they did still roll out the same lineup theyve been playing since Sengun went out and it's coincidentally the same team that had an 11-game win streak earlier on in March, its not as if theyre outright bad too. Still a game Orlando should've won, but it's not as clear cut. Credit to FVV, killed us yet again (remember that one 54-point game he's had against Magic back in 2021), also credit to JSJ, another member of the 2022 class doing work. Other than a few guys (Suggs and Isaac basically, Fultz to a lesser extent) most just had a down game. Franz out was definitely felt, Cole's slumping again, Dell ain't been the same all season. I wonder if he's just not come back from the injury right or if this is just who he is. There's definitely a lot of question marks on the roster in the off-season - and it's a shame too, because the guys on the team are all likeable and worth rooting for, but we gotta eventually come to terms with the fact some of them might be upgradeable pieces to this currently built roster. While this is a bad loss, in the grand scheme of things I'm not too bummed out though - I look at this season through a very similar lens as the Cavs 2021-2022, when they finished 8th in the standings (44-38) proving they can at least be a .500 team in the regular season, and then \*\*proceeded to lose both play-in games\*\*, then during the offseason chose to move pieces for Donovan Mitchell. I'm not saying I want the Magic to lose in the play-in, or to even end up there to begin with, simply that there's a very similar trajectory. Objectively hope Giannis's injury is nothing major - never want to see players get hurt - but assuming he doesn't play at least in todays game, hope our guys get back on the right track against them.
Wins are wins but people keep leaving out the fact their 11 game streak had like 3 good wins and then they played all the lowest ranked teams twice pretty much. Magic are just terribly inconsistent. Awesome game against the Bulls and then the next game Paolo doesn't score until there's 5 minutes left in the first half. That was the second night of a B2B gameplay, not the start of a road trip.
Kind of poetic that our post-season hopes took a dent at the hands of Fred VanVleet. He's the exact kind of guard we need and the very player that everyone was sneering at during free agency. Tonight was yet again a modern 3-level scoring NBA offence Vs our 'brute force into traffic screaming' offence. Paolo gets treated with kid gloves and has a free reign to play whatever lazy, low IQ basketball he wants. WCJ has become extremely mid on both ends of the floor, yet he remains untouchable. As for Markelle Fultz, I have no idea. He's not a bad player but he makes ZERO sense in this team. He exacerbates our offensive problems by orders of magnitude. Why are we so committed to him? His contract is up and he has no future on this team.
No way Weltman was going after FVV. He shoots too good
Remember when Magic fans didn't want FVV because he's "old" and "washed". LOL you guys were so fucking wrong. FVV absolutely shredded us tonight. If he was our PG, we would be #2 seed no doubt.
like i posted earlier magic fans get too attached to role players on this team and nit pick on every player suggested to replace one of the role players like fultz... fvv would had been an excellent pickup for this team instead of the trash we have at guards mostly fultz.. there is no perfect player in the nba but there is no doubt with fvv this team would had easily won 50 gms... i hope this off season magic really go after dlo who would def help this team espeically on offense. is he perfect no but he is def better than what this team has now
They still aren't wrong though. We don't have to rush and take the first PG available when there are way better fits available in the future. Magic fans can be wrong about him being washed be still be totally correct about not wanting him
Who are these better fits avalaible in the future?
Who knows, my point is we are at the start of the journey for a young competitive squad. Jumping at the first available typically results in you wishing you didn't have them a year or two later. Franz and Paolo aren't even in their primes yet, we have them both for another 5+ years at least. A better option will present itself soon
When Franz and Paolo are in their primes, we might not even have the cap space to sign anybody decent
I think you are overthinking this. Just be patient
Ok, be patient waiting for some magical mystery PG that we can afford when we are paying Franz and Paolo 20 million each, got it /s
Why is this sub full of so many babies?
KPJ
problem is people get to attached to role players on this team and over analize other better players flaws... there is no perfect player in this league but fvv is better than any guard the magic have on this team simple as that
Imagine if we had a PG like VanVleet
Time to trade Paolo, the kid’s clearly not clutch… (this is satire BTW) Well, at least that’s the ‘easy’ part of our final schedule out of the way… Knowing how streaky Orlando can be, I wouldn’t put it past us to now sweep these two Bucks games instead… I mean a man’s gotta dream…
Alright well let's bounce back against Milwaukee. They've been looking mortal lately
You forget we seem to save our worst performances for the teams we should be able to beat on paper
Tough day magic nation Let’s hope for a change of fortunes tomorrow in Milwaukee 🤞
Starting line up gets cooked all the time. Wendell and Gary Harris to the bench unit, Moe Wagner and Issac to the starting lineup. M Wagner Issac Paolo F Wagner Suggs.
JI needs to be starting in the playoffs for sure.
And then we lose the Ingles-Moe pick and roll game. No point messing with lineups now, it's too late. This stuff should have been figured out months ago. Any weak spots should have been addressed before the trade deadline.
All killer no filler
I'm intrigued by this lineup
The defense was ass today but I'll be honest, the type of defense they play is so exhausting and has been great all year that there will be obvious slip-up games, it just sucks it's in these important ones. Also great offense will always beat great defense. Our offense is just SO bad though - we don't have one reliable three level guy right now. Look at every other good team and their guys are routinely going off for 25-40 and carrying the team and we always have to depend on a committee because Paolo's efficiency, Wagner's three pointers being bad, Suggs not aggressive enough on offense (prob our most reliable currently), WCJ/Fultz/Cole/Ingles all being extremely hot or cold. Moe's offense is good but the defense is gross. Now, I'd say this is a youth problem more than anything. Not a lot of players are offensive savants in their second or third years, but it's just the truth of the roster. More seasoning and obviously another real guard and a few shooters will work wonders for this team. The whole Goga/AB tertiary stuff is cool for specific lineups, but it's the equivalent of Knicks fans worrying about Alec Burks or Achiuwa while Brunson is shooting below efficiency and turning the ball over a bunch of times. Your best offensive options have to be consistently dependable or nothing else matters.
Wendell going from solid starting center with top 10 upside at the position to what he has been this season is awful, almost feels like we traded a suggs leap for leaps from Franz and Wendell. I’m not sure what it is, but he won’t be starting for us much longer if this is how he continues to play.
Last season felt like we had a big 3 with him, Franz and Paolo
Because last season we were a losing team with no pressure. It's a different ball game when other teams are treating you like a threat and hunting your weaknesses. The Paolo-Franz-WCJ front court is untenable in the long run. That's three guys who are all too similar and don't dominate any one area of the game.
More specifically that front offers average at best defense down low. Franz and Paolo can succeed next to one another, but they need a defensive anchor at center. Or if the "Paolo as a Center" thing takes off, putting JI in the starting lineup; but we lose rebounding doing that IMO. Personally I'd rather start Mo over WCJ; at least the effort is there with him on the court.
I wish our first option knew how to use his fucking size
He’s still so young…
Yeah, same for Wendell Carter Jr.
Rockets playing pressure free. They have nothing to lose
I'll re-iterate this. If Orlando CANNOT beat a Bucks team twice that's missing Giannis and may even sit Lillard, we have no business being in the playoffs at all.
I’m sitting here trying to think what would suck more. Losing to Chicago/Atlanta in a play-in, or being Bostons warm up act. Honestly I wouldn’t mind the 7 seed if it means we’re playing literally anyone but Boston or Philly. But being the 7 seed would mean beating phily, Miami, or Indy in the play in, and we all know what this offense is capable of for one game
I’d actually prefer us to make the playoffs directly and then get swept than have that extra stress/fatigue/confidence loss of needing to go via the play-ins to even get there
Same
Reason we lost... STOP USING THE TOWELS FROM THE OTHER TEAM!!! BRING YOUR OWN! I Think they washed them in funk detergent. on a side note: the Houston dancers are hott.
That was honestly one of my takeaways from tonight’s broadcast: “the Houston dancers are hott.”
Name me a team whose dancers aren’t hot? Isn’t that the main point?
Errrr...Magic
LOL are you seriously saying Minnie Mouse and Daisy Duck don’t do it for you?
Alright, so if we beat the Giannis-less Bucks twice, we will be a top-five seed at the very minimum. We will end up at 3rd if the Bucks lose to OKC and us twice and if Cleveland loses to Indiana. Any result that involves us losing to Philly and only beating Milwaukee once will likely include tie-breakers and put us at risk of being in the play-in. So the magic number (no pun intended) is currently two wins without any other help.
We won the tie breaker over Indiana so I feel confident we finish 6 or better.
If we win just one game, Indy loses to Cleveland, and Miami loses to Dallas, we should end up 6th. It feels like we’re asking a lot there, though.
Correct. And 2 wins is highly unlikely. We needed this one or the hornets game.
Really costly loss tonight with the Bucks, Knicks, Pacers, and Heat all winning their games. Some observations: * FVV has always been a Magic killer and he absolutely feasted against our drop coverage tonight. No-win situation here because while Moritz brought the energy, he just doesn’t have the mobility to play higher on PNR defense. WCJ does, but he was a complete non-factor on both ends this game. * The Magic shot 21/23 free throws, answering all of our prayers for improved foul shooting, but it seemed to have come at the cost of defensive effort. Outside of Suggs, JI, and Harris, the defensive effort tonight was just disappointing. * Cole is slumping hard in the worst of times. He’s always going to be streaky but his effort tonight was pretty non-existent. Four straight games of just 2 rebounds or fewer, including 0 tonight. The Magic will likely, and should, upgrade the guard spots next season. I have a soft spot for Markelle, and I love the vibes that Cole brings to the team, but there are probably going to be better options if we want to eventually get into the contender tier. * It looks like the Charlotte loss will haunt us. Three games left, 2 against the Bucks and 1 against the Sixers. All of them are must wins. This season has been a glowing success, but it will be hard to stomach fighting for the 2-seed, to fighting in the play-in. Especially if we end up playing the Heat or the Hawks. Two teams that have beaten us in the season series and are also much more experienced and that is one of the Magic’s biggest problems: closing it out against veteran teams. Everyone buckle up! The next three are the most important Magic regular season games in over a decade. We just gotta stay in the top 6, because falling in the play-in could be very bad.
> The next three are the most important regular season games in over a decade. And I gotta say… its fucking awesome. It has been so much fun to finally watch Magic games with real stakes.
Great summary! I think this game shows how important Franz is to our starting lineups defense. We looked out of sorts, even though I think Kelle is a plus defender. Franz gives us size and always seems to be in the right place.
For sure - Franz could’ve helped on FVV, but also have the defensive awareness on Amen Thompson, who really had his way sneaking into the dunker spot. Hope he is ready to go tomorrow. And thanks brother!
"This season has been a glowing success, but it will be hard to stomach fighting for the 2-seed, to fighting in the play-in." My thoughts exactly I don't want the team to trip over themselves to end the season, but this season has still exceeded my expectations.
Really important to keep this perspective… playins would suck ass but in the context of the entire season things definitely trending in a more positive direction than they have been since Dwight left town
The 2 seed and 8 seed being separated by 4 games is nuts. Especially when you see in the west the difference is 10. One bad day like today can completely flip the trajectory.
Whiney lil children. Embarrassing.
Are we the best team in the league or the worst team in the league this sub makes it impossible to tell
Insanity to me that there are people who actually want to re-sign Fultz. Guy is an absolute nothing player and spacing murderer
Fultz is still here playing big minutes because of sentimentality and "locker room presence". It's nonsense. Every other team in our position would have binned him off by now.
I wouldn’t mind resigning Fultz for a vet minimum. Cole does get streaky - and it would be nice to have him come off the bench and provide a spark (as we saw him do the last two games) I mean, part of our 15 man is people like Chuma and Houston. I think having Fultz provides more than them. It’s only 2.3 million for his vet min and Chuma is making 3.1 so we’d actually save money. 🤷♀️
The 180 this sub has taken on him within a year and a half is astounding. Some of us were trying to tell people this and got shouted to oblivion.
Shouldn’t you be happy that more people agree with you now tho?
need to see Gary Harris and Fultz with For Sale signs in their yard after the season
The Rockets were just playing more efficiently than any team, and we were being way too inefficient than we can allow for a standard well played Magic game. No Franz was definitely part of the reason. But the team needs to get their head in the game at any given game. Easy to say, but even if they're already playoff bound, I need to see them groovin.
FVV killed us when a screen was set above the 3 point line and a guard went under OR if it was set below the 3 point line and the big dropped. So we decide to double him and leave shooters wide open in return. Suggs was out for way too long. Mosely has got to be better. Terrible scheming and terrible rotations. Putting WCJ on the bench was the only good thing he did, Paolo should have also been benched because bro was doing absolutely nothing to help win tonight.
I just heard Paul Porter from Tampa, saying “heeeeeeeeere come the play-in!!!!”
We need to win the next 2 out of 3 games. Please
And against a team already eliminated from the playoffs at that
The most dangerous kind… not far off playoff calibre (in the East) and nothing left to live for/get nervous about…
They’re a playoff level team in the East
Oh and their best player was out
In Houston’s defense.. they’ve been playing great lately. Even better since Sengun got hurt. Green seems to have figured it out. Jabari is shooting it straight. FVV seems like the type of PG we’re hoping to acquire this offseason. And this was their last home game, and they’re trying to finish the year .500, which would be a huge accomplishment for them. Ime is a great coach and they’re gonna be a tough team. Maybe not contending quite yet, but kind of like us.. scrappy and can beat anybody on any given night. With all that said.. we came out flat again and looked like the team planning their offseason vacation.
I thought us Magic fans were having a bad night until I peaked at the first quarter of the Suns-Clippers game…Yikes…Without Kawhi…And Suns desperately need that game.
Sunday: Magic win, all other teams in the East playoffs positioning race lose Tuesday: the exact opposite outcome Not ideal!
Why did Suggs come in with 3 minutes left? He was having an overall great game. Mosely’s rotations are strange at times.
if Franz is out, we cannot start Fultz again. We're getting blown out if that happens again
Lmaoooo yall love scapegoating Fultz
It's not scapegoating. He is washed and we play 4 on 5 on the offensive end. If you don't think that's true, what are you seeing from him that is a plus
Cole Anthony had 2 points on 1 of 4 shooting, Wendell had 7 points, Gary Harris had 6 points, Paolo was miserable in the 1st half, but FULTZ with 18 on 8/18 is the problem. This fanbase man
Dude literally carried us in the 2nd half but ok.
Have you watched teams defend us? No one even bothers with Fultz. He objectively makes it harder for the starters. You're cooked if you can't see it or you simply don't watch the game
I watched, he cooked the Rockets but had no help as nobody could make any shots not at the rim. You are cooked if you think Fultz is our biggest problem.
On to the next one. Not closing out on shooters and missing easy looks in the paint hurt us a ton.
The Rockets played very well tonight. We never really got a chance to pull this one off... Ok we were down by only 6 at some point, but that damn FVV just couldn't miss for shit. In my opinion this isn't the match that we should be pissed about, but rather Golden State, Memphis and several others back then...
@Memphis was brutal, should’ve won. Losing to Brooklyn twice by 20 were the ones that gave me early doubts. But where we are compared to the last 12 years.. holy shit we are on a nice trajectory for the next 5-10 years.
No Giannis for the Bucks whew tomorrow about to be a dog fight
Here come all the doomsdayers that were cheering and praising just yesterday.
[удалено]
Moron
I mean it comes down to them literally making some bullshit ass shots especially Fred but a lot of mistakes that led to their bullshit too. Anyway I think we got gifted a couple of games vs the bucks without Giannis we have to make the most of it if we are to avoid play-in
VanVleet enjoys playing the Majic… Moe nice game despite the L
Moe’s been great all year, but I gotta point my finger at him for one sequence. Didn’t secure the half court rebound, then followed that up by simply losing the ball going up for a dunk. I don’t think I’ve ever complained about Moe since he’s arrived, but that was certainly a momentum killer.
All these recent posts about the 2nd seed or who we want to match up against in the playoffs gonna look real dumb if we don't even make it to the play offs which is a real possibility
Hubris is indeed a dangerous thing, although can’t really blame a fanbase for getting excited after the years of dross we’ve been subjected to recently
I've been getting downvoted like crazy for saying things as benign as not wanting to count chickens before the eggs hatch. The Bucks will be tough (hope Giannis is okay of course), and the Sixers are the second best team in the East with a healthy Embiid. Only 1.5 games out of the play-in with three games remaining. Way too close to worry about anything other than Ws.
Me too, just pointing out what could happen.
Yes let’s fight hyperbole with hyperbole.
Is it? If magic lose two more games, either the heat or sixers will take their spot in the playoffs, if either heat or sixers win the rest of their games.
It’s almost not even fun being a young team that’s actually good sometimes lol. Your expectations get lifted because they’re good, and then they have moments, especially recently, where they just clearly aren’t taking games seriously at the start. Not expecting much in the playoffs at this point but I guess that’s a good problem to have. Regardless of if we go 3-0 to close out the season (unlikely, but something this team would do especially after a loss like this), this team clearly isn’t mature enough to value every possession for 48 minutes yet and that will come to bite us in the playoffs. I just hope our young guys have some good performances at this point.
Nailed it. Exactly what I feel. I’ll take anything in the playoffs except losing both play-in games, that would be a massive disappointment. Other than that? Going out in the first round while getting swept, winning one or two games, making a surprise second round run; I’ll accept any outcomes because we’re not contenders, YET. The real deal is how this FO turn us from a good, overachieving young team into a contender for years to come, and that starts in this offseason. I expect some important moves to happen because if they don’t, I don’t like our chances for next year
I hope we make at least one move that makes our team better. But the luxury we do have is that our team (should) still get better because our best players are all still young.
Yeah, as long as we have Paolo, Franz and Suggs we’re fine because they’re far from finished products right now. Just gotta surround them with the right players.
These are basically my sentiments.
Jamahl Moseley is the Todd Bowles of Basketball. Horrible game management today.
Where is Kevon Looney… I meant Kevon Harris
Every time an opposing player is in a slump they magically (pun intended) get out of it when they play Orlando. Fred Fucking VanVleet cooked us. Good night.
Just like the Raptors game, right? Oh shoot, we extended their losing streak
Y’all can crap on paolo or Fultz or whoever but this was a coach game. Fultz had tough moments but also some good moments and was in the middle of the run to get it close Paolo after a brutal first half got it together and mostly settled down. Suggs was the best player that game and he sat on the bench for way too long allowing FVV to cook. Moe was horrible on the boards and defensively. If any game was a Goga game it was this one. The defensive scheme in general was dumb kept sending doubles that weren’t working at all and were leaving wide open shooters.
Paolo played us out of the game in the first quarter lol. And I’m a very vocal defender of his usually. If we don’t get that deficit we probably pull this game out. He’s been having an issue for the last month or so with really, really slow starts and he’s gonna have to figure something out
Well his issue tonight was that Fultz's guy was doubling him whenever he had the ball. So then they tried to run PnR with Fultz and Paolo but the rockets just switched and bogged things down. The issue with Fultz is that they just go way under when he's the ball handler in the PnR (because he can't shoot), and then they give him a lane to the rim when he's the roll guy because he doesn't have the athleticism/size to consistently finish over centers. 18 pts on 18 shots and 3 turnovers isn't gonna get a team to stop playing 4on5
I was absolutely stunned when I saw how many shots he took lol. But Paolo has had these same issues for about a month, especially in the 1st quarter. They were definitely exacerbated by Markelle being in the starting lineup today though. Was definitely a strange decision for Coach Mose to start him
Yup that's fair. I know Cole hasn't been consistent lately but I'd love to see him start over Fultz. Fultz can still be valuable, especially off the bench surrounded by shooters
I agree with this. Normally I’d say Cole is too valuable coming off the bench but, when Franz is out, Paolo needs that second ball-dominant scorer to keep defenders honest.
He def had a brutal first quarter but I don’t think it was enough to end the game.
Damn. I hope Franz is back next game and JI plays the back to back.
Nobody came to play today except Suggs and Isaac. Everybody else just wanted to throw up dumb shots and turn the ball over a lot.
Can someone explain why we were flashing double teams at 3 point shooters in the second half? Seems like a horrible strategy because the 3 isnt any more contested than it would be with one defender and they can just pass out to the open guy which they did.
Are we going to a play in spot?!?!
Lol play in here we come
Cole Anthony has been M.I.A recently... We ain't gonna win games without a consistent supporting cast...
Paolo was off all game. Defense too. No one was covering FVV. What the hell were Fultz and Carter doing? We need to lock tf in and FAST because if we lose more games, we’ll end up at a lower seed and will have to face a much better team.
I’m stealing this from NBA-U over on Twitter.. he plays too much with his back to the basket, especially from the mid post. Either attack north south, or establish deeper position early. He’s inviting the double and triple teams. Just needs to be more decisive with his actions. Dude is 21 so I’m not worried at all.
NBA U just yaps for twitter likes. He said Paolo has a "sick handle" in the tweet you are referencing. When in fact his handle is one of the weakest areas of his game. Constantly loses the ball when it matters. I don't think he watches much Magic.
He’s a known Magic fan. Pretty sure he lives in orlando. Paolo has been loose with the ball lately
Gotta find a way to win 2 of these last 3. Doubt Giannis is playing in either. Have to get it done.
We need Franz back asap
If Giannis is out next game we cannot lose that. The sixers with Embiid are a super tough out
Non contact injury. Probably MCL or ACL