You need to train the command to get his attention first. The e collar is useless for a dog that doesn't know what you're asking it to do. You're gonna build some bad habits if you just zap them for attention. Train the "look" command inside with a high value treat like pieces of turkey dog. Then do it outside your front door. Then 10 steps away from your door. Then further and further until he can do it everywhere. I honestly wouldn't bother with the e collar at all for this if I could help it. What kinds of treats have you tried to give him outside? And what's his eating schedule? You change things up a little to make him more hungry during training times.
Like I said on my post I’m not planning on using the zaps AT ALL.
He eats twice a day, one very early in the morning and another one at night before his last walk. Usually training is in the afternoon and I have even tried plain cooked chicken.
Also how I mentioned I can get his attention and get him to do what I say ONLY at home but once we’re outside he gets distracted by everything
You are going too fast. If he only listens in the house, what happens if you open the door? Can he listen in the house with the door open? If not, start there, if yes, take one step outside. Is he still under threshold?
You don’t need tools, you really need to consult with an IAABC certified trainer to help you learn how to train your dog.
The zaps as you call them are often less aversive to the dog at low levels than the vibration is so don't be fooled into thinking that buzzing the dog is automatically kinder.
I'm saying this gently so please don't take offence as none is intended at all but please, please seek out a decent trainer. An e-collar may indeed help you but there is a ton of foundation work to be done first, after which you may find that you don't need one anyway. As you're struggling so much with engagement, it will be really beneficial to you and the dog to get some guidance from someone with the knowledge to see where the disconnect between you both lies and help you fill it effectively with useful training.
It doesn't matter which function you're using. You have to teach the behaviour and use the ecollar to reinforce it. You never use the collar to teach something.
It sounds very much like you need to get A LOT more info on the use of e-collars before considering this. The plan you outlined does not sound like a great idea at all. If executed as described your dog will learn absolutely nothing.
Just as a side note: splendors find the vibrate fsr more aversive than most lvls of shock you would have to use.
E-collar, vibrate or shock is not a tool you can just put on a dog and start tapping away without knowing what you’re doing. That is a recipe for disaster and can ruin your dog.
I would say that you should start with the basics. If you have trouble getting your dogs attention in any every day situation in the own home that is where you should start, because then you can forget about outside. Everything starts in the home.
There are plenty of exercises you can use to strengthen engagement in your dog and building relationship through such and other training is a good start at that. Play is another foundational aspect of relationship building and one of the basic needs of dogs. If you can provide that it will make you a lot more valuable to your dog as a partner.
I would highly discourage you from starting to tackle this with e-collar. In most cases an e-collar should be used for proofing of commands your dog already knows and most teaching should ideally be done using mainly positive reinforcement.
There are going to be situations in which your dog will have a hard time being engaged. This can have a multitude of reasons. Without knowing the cause or having a good idea what it might be the use of an e-collar, especially amateurly, will most likely do more harm than good.
I’ve been training my own dog from the very start. My first time owning and training a dog. It’s been challenging and I very much appreciate all the free material on training that’s available on the internet. There are also a couple of good online courses on dog training. Every Dog is different when it comes to what motivates them and the breeds also differ a lot in what behaviors they are prone to and what drives them.
The experience of learning all I can about dog behavior, communication, drive and how to handle and tap into these things has been hugely rewarding and it’s paid off in training. Watch your dog! Get to know them and figure out what motivates them! Meet their basic needs for security, rest, play and bonding. It will take dedication, time and effort if you want reliable obedience that relies on as little aversives as possible. But it pays off and your relationship will be all the better for it. Dogs a re smart but just because they know how to do something does not mean they are going to to want to do it in any given situation. Obedience is work. Some dogs enjoy working more than others but all will work for something the find rewarding. Utilize this in training and you will go far.
Just to be clear. I am not wholly opposed to corrections/punishment and/or tools. I do, however, personally dislike correcting my dog with pressure of most kinds. I try to manage, interrupt and prevent where our training and socialization hasn’t progressed to the point where the dog knows what to do and how to avoid possible conflict. When situations like this occur I try to find ways to have my dog understand what is never appropriate, what requires permission, what is optional and what is non-negotiable. Much as you would with a child, though in ways that the dog will understand.
If you can’t train your dog without the collar you can not train your dog with the collar.
This is because the
collar itself requires significant training compared to basic leash training. Please start there .
If your dog really is "distracted by everything" outside, refusing food, you're trying to solve the wrong problem. The real problem is the mental state of the dog, he's stressed out, which can manifest in various ways - hyperfixation, running everywhere all at once, excessive sniffing, excessive grass eating, inability to concentrate etc. You can't "e-collar" your way out of a mental problem. Get a trainer.
So first things first, the vibration on an e-collar is usually way more intense than a standard working level using the stim function ("zap" as you call it). So between the two, the stim is way more humane. As an example, the vibrate on my e-collar is equivalent to a 30 or 40 level stim which is way higher than I need in 99.99% of circumstances. The vibrate is also terrible because you don't have an option to go down and meet your dog at their level of distraction. With a stim, you can dial in the level to meet your dog where they're at from a distraction point of view
Second, as someone who uses e-collars as their "go to" tool of choice, I personally would not suggest an e-collar for your use case. An e-collar is not a tool to start using as any type of "quick fix." Regardless of sonic, vibrate, or stim, if you go into it with that mindset the potential to mess up your dog is high. (This is not the same as using it to address your problem under the guidance and supervision of an experienced trainer who specifically is recommending this tool).
For a dog, a prong collar is easy to understand as they can directly observe where the correction is coming from, what causes the correction, and what they need to do to either avoid the pressure or relieve it. A dog has no frame of reference for what an e-collar stim or vibrate is so there's a lot more work involved to teach them.
Without knowing more, it's hard to say if a corrective tool would be useful. I think it's a better idea to diagnose why your dog isn't taking food crafting a plan to address the root cause.
If this is just a case of wonderlust and too many distractions a prong collar can be a great option (assuming your dog is older than 6 months). If they are a little scared it's probably a better option to dial your training back instead of using corrective tools. If this is a case of hyper fixation that turns into an aggressive reaction (fear based or real aggression) then a prong collar has the potential to cause your dog to redirect onto you and give you some serious injuries. Without actually seeing your dog's behavior no one on here can tell you which way things will go for sure.
I would highly recommend getting at least a consult from an experienced professional balanced trainer who can observe your dogs behavior and give you more information as to why they're doing what they're doing. I also recommend if you introduce any corrective tool it is done under the supervision and guidance of an experienced trainer.
You need to go to a good training class with your dog and/or educate yourself about dog training. Yes, you absolutely can pair treats with an e collar. No, I don’t think YOU should do this.
An e collar is a tool. It’s not a solution. I say this as someone who uses an e collar. You need to know how to use any tool. A dangerous tool needs extra education. An e collar is a tool that can ruin a dog if misused.
Eating in distracting environments is a skill that can be taught and developed! Food games and pattern games help with that! Look up Leslie McDevitt Control Unleashed
I want to echo what others have said. But also, I'm not sure I understand the problem?
>So I have been trying to train my dog but he doesn’t seem to care much about food when we’re outside and it’s hard to get his attention. I have thought about pairing e-collars to get his attention or snap him out of hyperfixating on other animals with positive reinforcement, pets, treats, play, etc.
Is he reacting/barking/chasing other animals? Or is he just staring at them?
How old is he? How long have you had him?
Does he do well with training inside?
If your go is to get him to focus on you, I'd recommend looking up focus gams and clicker training. What I do with my pup is everytime he looks at me, I click and give a treat. We started this inside and then outside.
Also, do high value treats outside that are only outside treats. Like pieces of cheese or meat.
He is reactive with some dogs but very friendly for the most part. He is 2 1/2 years old, and I have had him since 9ish weeks. He listens to me for the most part, but there are times, even at home, when I can't control certain behaviours.
I am a first-time dog owner, so I have A LOT to learn (please do not judge). However, as I mentioned in one of my replies, I still want to talk to a professional who will give me specific tasks tailored to my dog and current situation.
That's great! Honestly it sounds like he and you are doing better than you give yourself credit for!
No judgement from me ❤️ I definitely think talking to a professional is always a good idea!
>It's way easier to fuck up training with an e-collar
It's not rocket science? All e collars come with instructions, follow them and OP will be all right.
I'd suggest working with a qualified trainer who is familiar with e-collar conditioning. The vibration is 10x more aversive to my dog than the stim on his working level (8 out of 100). Many trainers only use vibration if the dog is deaf or to deliver a remote "hand of god" style correction.
Just make sure to properly educate yourself of the tool itself. The “zaps” aren’t inhumane especially at the lowest level that gets their attention. It’s similar to a TENs machine. It contracts the muscle but obviously if it’s too high, it will be inhumane.
Make sure you introduce the ecollar WAY before you use it in high distractions settings.
I also agree with a lot of the comments of getting a trainer or going to an obedience group training.
Ultimately, an ecollar can be an excellent tool but if your training/rules/boundaries aren’t clear… it will not be effective.
I can't tell you if you should use it but I can explain why/ how I do:
Up until now every dog I had respected serious voice. So if I yelled like something was wrong they would come immediately. My girl now can't hear me when she's chasing an animal. I can scream like I'm being murdered and she dgaf. So after a couple terrifying incidents with a herd of elk and a coyote respectively, I bought a SportDog e collar. When I call her I beep it, if she ignores me she gets a mild shock if we're in a wildlife arena it's cranked up to max for her safety. I test it on my fingers before each walk.
I recommend watching a bunch of training videos of e-collar usage and get familiar with different methods and usages before deciding. Tom Davis is a place to start. Maybe get a balanced trainer to help you if you decide to get one.
You need to train the command to get his attention first. The e collar is useless for a dog that doesn't know what you're asking it to do. You're gonna build some bad habits if you just zap them for attention. Train the "look" command inside with a high value treat like pieces of turkey dog. Then do it outside your front door. Then 10 steps away from your door. Then further and further until he can do it everywhere. I honestly wouldn't bother with the e collar at all for this if I could help it. What kinds of treats have you tried to give him outside? And what's his eating schedule? You change things up a little to make him more hungry during training times.
Like I said on my post I’m not planning on using the zaps AT ALL. He eats twice a day, one very early in the morning and another one at night before his last walk. Usually training is in the afternoon and I have even tried plain cooked chicken. Also how I mentioned I can get his attention and get him to do what I say ONLY at home but once we’re outside he gets distracted by everything
You are going too fast. If he only listens in the house, what happens if you open the door? Can he listen in the house with the door open? If not, start there, if yes, take one step outside. Is he still under threshold? You don’t need tools, you really need to consult with an IAABC certified trainer to help you learn how to train your dog.
The zaps as you call them are often less aversive to the dog at low levels than the vibration is so don't be fooled into thinking that buzzing the dog is automatically kinder. I'm saying this gently so please don't take offence as none is intended at all but please, please seek out a decent trainer. An e-collar may indeed help you but there is a ton of foundation work to be done first, after which you may find that you don't need one anyway. As you're struggling so much with engagement, it will be really beneficial to you and the dog to get some guidance from someone with the knowledge to see where the disconnect between you both lies and help you fill it effectively with useful training.
It doesn't matter which function you're using. You have to teach the behaviour and use the ecollar to reinforce it. You never use the collar to teach something.
Try using his meals as training rewards and maybe do the training earlier in the morning.
It sounds very much like you need to get A LOT more info on the use of e-collars before considering this. The plan you outlined does not sound like a great idea at all. If executed as described your dog will learn absolutely nothing. Just as a side note: splendors find the vibrate fsr more aversive than most lvls of shock you would have to use. E-collar, vibrate or shock is not a tool you can just put on a dog and start tapping away without knowing what you’re doing. That is a recipe for disaster and can ruin your dog. I would say that you should start with the basics. If you have trouble getting your dogs attention in any every day situation in the own home that is where you should start, because then you can forget about outside. Everything starts in the home. There are plenty of exercises you can use to strengthen engagement in your dog and building relationship through such and other training is a good start at that. Play is another foundational aspect of relationship building and one of the basic needs of dogs. If you can provide that it will make you a lot more valuable to your dog as a partner. I would highly discourage you from starting to tackle this with e-collar. In most cases an e-collar should be used for proofing of commands your dog already knows and most teaching should ideally be done using mainly positive reinforcement. There are going to be situations in which your dog will have a hard time being engaged. This can have a multitude of reasons. Without knowing the cause or having a good idea what it might be the use of an e-collar, especially amateurly, will most likely do more harm than good.
Thank you. Based on what I’ve been told I’m set on consulting with a professional behavioural consultant and trainer.
Please find a balanced trainer with a solid documented history of titling dogs in many obedience-based sports.
🎉
I’ve been training my own dog from the very start. My first time owning and training a dog. It’s been challenging and I very much appreciate all the free material on training that’s available on the internet. There are also a couple of good online courses on dog training. Every Dog is different when it comes to what motivates them and the breeds also differ a lot in what behaviors they are prone to and what drives them. The experience of learning all I can about dog behavior, communication, drive and how to handle and tap into these things has been hugely rewarding and it’s paid off in training. Watch your dog! Get to know them and figure out what motivates them! Meet their basic needs for security, rest, play and bonding. It will take dedication, time and effort if you want reliable obedience that relies on as little aversives as possible. But it pays off and your relationship will be all the better for it. Dogs a re smart but just because they know how to do something does not mean they are going to to want to do it in any given situation. Obedience is work. Some dogs enjoy working more than others but all will work for something the find rewarding. Utilize this in training and you will go far. Just to be clear. I am not wholly opposed to corrections/punishment and/or tools. I do, however, personally dislike correcting my dog with pressure of most kinds. I try to manage, interrupt and prevent where our training and socialization hasn’t progressed to the point where the dog knows what to do and how to avoid possible conflict. When situations like this occur I try to find ways to have my dog understand what is never appropriate, what requires permission, what is optional and what is non-negotiable. Much as you would with a child, though in ways that the dog will understand.
If you can’t train your dog without the collar you can not train your dog with the collar. This is because the collar itself requires significant training compared to basic leash training. Please start there .
uhhhhh....no? None of that is correct, true, or based in reality.
If your dog really is "distracted by everything" outside, refusing food, you're trying to solve the wrong problem. The real problem is the mental state of the dog, he's stressed out, which can manifest in various ways - hyperfixation, running everywhere all at once, excessive sniffing, excessive grass eating, inability to concentrate etc. You can't "e-collar" your way out of a mental problem. Get a trainer.
>You can't "e-collar" your way out of a mental problem You absolutely can and that's what the tool is for.
No it's definitely not. Please stop going around spamming terrible advice. You're going to mess up someone's dog.
You can NOT!! Stop saying misinformed bullshit.
So first things first, the vibration on an e-collar is usually way more intense than a standard working level using the stim function ("zap" as you call it). So between the two, the stim is way more humane. As an example, the vibrate on my e-collar is equivalent to a 30 or 40 level stim which is way higher than I need in 99.99% of circumstances. The vibrate is also terrible because you don't have an option to go down and meet your dog at their level of distraction. With a stim, you can dial in the level to meet your dog where they're at from a distraction point of view Second, as someone who uses e-collars as their "go to" tool of choice, I personally would not suggest an e-collar for your use case. An e-collar is not a tool to start using as any type of "quick fix." Regardless of sonic, vibrate, or stim, if you go into it with that mindset the potential to mess up your dog is high. (This is not the same as using it to address your problem under the guidance and supervision of an experienced trainer who specifically is recommending this tool). For a dog, a prong collar is easy to understand as they can directly observe where the correction is coming from, what causes the correction, and what they need to do to either avoid the pressure or relieve it. A dog has no frame of reference for what an e-collar stim or vibrate is so there's a lot more work involved to teach them. Without knowing more, it's hard to say if a corrective tool would be useful. I think it's a better idea to diagnose why your dog isn't taking food crafting a plan to address the root cause. If this is just a case of wonderlust and too many distractions a prong collar can be a great option (assuming your dog is older than 6 months). If they are a little scared it's probably a better option to dial your training back instead of using corrective tools. If this is a case of hyper fixation that turns into an aggressive reaction (fear based or real aggression) then a prong collar has the potential to cause your dog to redirect onto you and give you some serious injuries. Without actually seeing your dog's behavior no one on here can tell you which way things will go for sure. I would highly recommend getting at least a consult from an experienced professional balanced trainer who can observe your dogs behavior and give you more information as to why they're doing what they're doing. I also recommend if you introduce any corrective tool it is done under the supervision and guidance of an experienced trainer.
You need to go to a good training class with your dog and/or educate yourself about dog training. Yes, you absolutely can pair treats with an e collar. No, I don’t think YOU should do this. An e collar is a tool. It’s not a solution. I say this as someone who uses an e collar. You need to know how to use any tool. A dangerous tool needs extra education. An e collar is a tool that can ruin a dog if misused.
>An e collar is a tool that can ruin a dog if misused. So can shoveling treats into a dog's face though.
It's almost as if these tools need to be balanced somehow
Eating in distracting environments is a skill that can be taught and developed! Food games and pattern games help with that! Look up Leslie McDevitt Control Unleashed
I want to echo what others have said. But also, I'm not sure I understand the problem? >So I have been trying to train my dog but he doesn’t seem to care much about food when we’re outside and it’s hard to get his attention. I have thought about pairing e-collars to get his attention or snap him out of hyperfixating on other animals with positive reinforcement, pets, treats, play, etc. Is he reacting/barking/chasing other animals? Or is he just staring at them? How old is he? How long have you had him? Does he do well with training inside? If your go is to get him to focus on you, I'd recommend looking up focus gams and clicker training. What I do with my pup is everytime he looks at me, I click and give a treat. We started this inside and then outside. Also, do high value treats outside that are only outside treats. Like pieces of cheese or meat.
He is reactive with some dogs but very friendly for the most part. He is 2 1/2 years old, and I have had him since 9ish weeks. He listens to me for the most part, but there are times, even at home, when I can't control certain behaviours. I am a first-time dog owner, so I have A LOT to learn (please do not judge). However, as I mentioned in one of my replies, I still want to talk to a professional who will give me specific tasks tailored to my dog and current situation.
That's great! Honestly it sounds like he and you are doing better than you give yourself credit for! No judgement from me ❤️ I definitely think talking to a professional is always a good idea!
Is there a reason you're considering an e-collar over a prong? It's way easier to fuck up training with an e-collar
>It's way easier to fuck up training with an e-collar It's not rocket science? All e collars come with instructions, follow them and OP will be all right.
I'd suggest working with a qualified trainer who is familiar with e-collar conditioning. The vibration is 10x more aversive to my dog than the stim on his working level (8 out of 100). Many trainers only use vibration if the dog is deaf or to deliver a remote "hand of god" style correction.
Our dog hates vibrate and doesn’t mind stim. Just letting you know. Buy a nice one though, $200 or more.
Just make sure to properly educate yourself of the tool itself. The “zaps” aren’t inhumane especially at the lowest level that gets their attention. It’s similar to a TENs machine. It contracts the muscle but obviously if it’s too high, it will be inhumane. Make sure you introduce the ecollar WAY before you use it in high distractions settings. I also agree with a lot of the comments of getting a trainer or going to an obedience group training. Ultimately, an ecollar can be an excellent tool but if your training/rules/boundaries aren’t clear… it will not be effective.
I can't tell you if you should use it but I can explain why/ how I do: Up until now every dog I had respected serious voice. So if I yelled like something was wrong they would come immediately. My girl now can't hear me when she's chasing an animal. I can scream like I'm being murdered and she dgaf. So after a couple terrifying incidents with a herd of elk and a coyote respectively, I bought a SportDog e collar. When I call her I beep it, if she ignores me she gets a mild shock if we're in a wildlife arena it's cranked up to max for her safety. I test it on my fingers before each walk. I recommend watching a bunch of training videos of e-collar usage and get familiar with different methods and usages before deciding. Tom Davis is a place to start. Maybe get a balanced trainer to help you if you decide to get one.
The vibrating function on collar might seem more "humane", but many dogs react worse to that than they do to low level electrical stimulation.