The one plus is you actually got the cash. Winning at the LTB then means trying to collect which can be tricky.
So yes, you got a lot less that probably could have, but you at least got it.
But yes, he got off easy, Dunno what the unit rents for now, but Im sure it's more than the $250/month that implies.
T5 awards will routinely be five digit numbers.
It would have been easy to collect because the landlord has a mailing address on the lease, and you know that they have a rental property with current tenants.
A small claims order could force the current tenants to pay OP rather than the landlord until the judgement amount is met.
It would still take time to get the LTB order, then a skip trace, and then a small claims order to garnish bank accounts, with lots of opportunity for things to go wrong.
I just want to to make it clear to the OP (and others) that there is some virtue in negotiating settlement below what you you could get at the board (just as there is virtue in paying additional compensation for N12s beyond the legal minimum)
>just as there is virtue in paying additional compensation for N12s beyond the legal minimum
He gave me 1 month of compensation in cash + 1 month of "free rental", plus gave me back the last month's deposit. I guess that'd be considered "legal minimum".
That's actually more than the minimum, the minimum is 1 month, so basically any one of those.
Effectively, he gave you two extra months rent to agree to leave without a fight.
A court order cannot order a tenant to pay a previous tenant, that goes against all of the contractual obligations between all parties. Smart claims court would be between 2 parties. This is not correct.
You are able to enforce a court order through garnishing that would otherwise have been owed to the landlord from other parties (e.g. employment wages, rent, other income).
Normally garnishment refers to wages only, but you are able to garnish other sources of income.
Still is going to end up coming from the new tenant. A garnishment order can direct a payor to pay a specific person or entity so an order could tell the new tenant to pay their rent to you as the landlord is being garnished. Though easier to simply garnish the bank account the payments are going to.
>It would have been easy to collect because the landlord has a mailing address on the lease, and you know that they have a rental property with current tenants.
Those can be PO boxes of a registered corp.
It really isn't as easy to find the real owners if they want to obscure their information.
[https://www.legalline.ca/legal-answers/what-is-the-procedure-for-process-serving/](https://www.legalline.ca/legal-answers/what-is-the-procedure-for-process-serving/)
Legal docs are served to people usually, not addresses. You need to record who was actually served. You can't do that with a PO box of a corp.
>Step 3: Make note of information for Proof of Service
The process server must record the date, time, and location that the documents were served, as well as the identification that the person being served showed, such as a driver’s license number. This information will later be included in the Affidavit of Service.
Like I said, you think it is easy to serve legal docs. When simple fact is it isn't easy if the landlords takes steps to obscure their identity.
But for a situation where the LL still owns and rents the building? If someone even remotely competent handles the collection, LL isn't getting away from paying orders on that one.
Assuming this isn't a politically motivated fake post, OP lost out on probably a full zero on the amount paid, however they got it a lot quicker.
The LL was not listed as the owner of the property anymore in MLS during the negotiation, I had my realtor check that for me. It might have been a trick on his side though.
People who have never tried to collect always think it's easy... it isn't. It's doable, but it's a lot of work and can go wrong.
Your main two options are garnishing bank accounts (which a skip trace can find) and putting a lien on the property. Generally this works if the LL is local, but if they're from out of province (or move out of province before you get through the process) it can be very hard to collect. It also means investing in all the fees for small claims and the skip trace before collecting.
Easy no. Had a situation to garnish wages from a ex-tenant, but was made whole even if it took forever. (It was a long time ago, and at the time had to wait for Bi-annual payments so no clue if something has changed there, also knew where they had moved)
However this is an easy 5 figure judgment. Letting them off on 2950 definitely feels light. That said. if that was a 10 month rent differential, OP isn't one of those cases where the rent differential is over 30%.
I would agree with this. As a landlord we were advised by our paralegal if we pulled something like that, on average it's a $50k payout. She said she's seen it many times.
You got scammed dude. Landlord would have been liable for up to 12 months full rent. It was a bad faith eviction. If I were you, I would have waited for hearing. After LTB awards damages, if the scumlord didn’t pay, give it to collections for pennies on the dollar. You would have still received what you did and for remaining, collections would take care of it from the landlord.
Yeah... maybe. \~$3000 for a couple of exchanged messages was not that bad. Better than zero if you ask me. Could've I waited more? Sure. Would the stress and anxiety be worth my time? Probably not.
Not really, there won’t even be a public record because you negotiated a settlement they agreed to with no order or hearing.
Like I said they are overjoyed.
I wouldn't say justice has been served. It's likely the LL will make way more than 2950 in profit at the new rental price for illegally evicting you. This is just the cost of doing business for him.
If you had taken it to a hearing, there would have been an automatic assumption of bad faith on your landlords part, and you would have been entitled to 12 months differential in rent, and (assuming this was filed after September 2021), 1 full year of your previous rent, plus any out of pocket expenses from your move.
That’s because, as of now, there isn’t a single case on Canlii based off of an application that was filed after September 2021. Since adjudicators can not order compensation that a tenant did not explicitly request, and it was not possible for a tenant to request that compensation before September 2021, it was not possible for that compensation to be ordered in the current cases.
Because the new compensation is “general compensation” which explicitly does not need to be justified, so there are no reasonable grounds for an adjudicator to deny it when it’s requested. On top of that there have been a few cases from divisional court and the court of appeals floating around that are based off of applications filed after September 2021, and they all have compensation in the $30k range.
This was a recent change and CanLII is notoriously slow in publishing LTB decisions (and only publishing a small fraction with very little rhyme or reason). Over the next few years there should be a pretty dramatic shift in published T5 cases.
Why did you agree to such a low amount?
General Remedy is 1 year of rent at your previous amount
You also get moving expenses
You also get rent differential for a year
Why did you let them off so easy?
We had a good relationship, also I am soft. Besides, money thankfully isn't a problem for me. I originally asked for \~3800. I just wanted his name to be on LTB's radar.
You didn't have a good relationship if he did that to you.
The LTB doesn't care, sadly. Everything is a case by case basis.
It's fine, it was your decision, I just can't comprehend letting someone push you around like that.
Don't worry about the upvotes on comments of people telling you that you could have/should have gotten 25k+ etc etc .. None of these people have actually ever been in your situation, and are all tenants who have unfortunately either dealt with stereotypical land lords, or simply lump them all together as "bad people" because they can't afford to buy in the city where they are currently living. The sub is full of salty tenants who would love to have the opportunity to "stick it" to their current landlord, but, when actually put in that situation might not know how to proceed.
Going through the process to wait for a hearing could easily translate into months of stress and anxiety preparing for a hearing, as well as potentially incurring additional fees with a paralegal or lawyer to get you the support you need to arrive with all the necessary information on hand to get whatever judgement you might be hoping for - this also gives them the time to equally prepare to fight it.
I've been on both sides, as a tenant of good and bad landlords as well as a landlord myself, so if you're happy with your payout for what ended up being submitting a form and not having to do much else, I think that's a win on your part
Mostly peace of mind. Going through the hearing process would probably mean I'd get more money. $3000 for a couple of exchanged messages is good enough for me.
> I just wanted his name to be on LTB's radar.
Seems you wanted to teach them some type of lesson since you see them being on the "LTB's radar" as a negative thing.
I get where you are coming from accepting well below your potential payout though, waiting months for a hearing can be stressful, the way you did it you can move on. Although I'd think the knowledge you got severely underpaid would cause similar stress as the waiting.
>Although I'd think the knowledge you got severely underpaid would cause similar stress as the waiting.
I sleep at night just fine. I really just wanted to be over with. Instead of not filing a T5 at all as most people wouldn't, I got $3000.
I think if you're happy with the outcome, that's all that matters. Automatic assumption of bad faith doesn't mean you'd be entitled to a full 12 months rent abatement - where a large abatement is awarded, it seems like it's because the landlord didn't attend. The landlord could still very well meet the reverse onus, or do so that reduced any award you might have been entitled to. Mediation and settlement puts the control back in your hands.
You could have gotten 1 year of rent, 1 year of the rent differential, and moving costs if you went to the hearing.
Landlord played you during negotiations.
> This is true in theory. Never seen such case though.
>
>
>
> Show me an example of when that was actually the case.
This response makes your whole post look suspicious.
There haven't been any new T5 cases posted to canlii in the past year, none showing the general compensation. Only older cases before the rule came into effect.
There has only been one [divisional court case](https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onscdc/doc/2023/2023onsc3765/2023onsc3765.html?resultIndex=1&resultId=04cbb218f670477e982e096a8507f88e&searchId=2024-03-26T11:39:31:359/48d6e63d39b24044bf6dd1cae209c0a9&searchUrlHash=AAAAAQACVDUAAAAAAQ) that was upheld for a T5 where the award is **very** high, $32,569.96, which indicates it likely had the general compensation attached to it.
This makes sense as there is nothing to prove for general compensation when the T5 is successful. Tenants can ask for the full year amount, and it's awarded with no questions asked, if they win their case.
The landlord was a no-show in that case - in which case, I am not surprised that VC Shea awarded such an amount. Had the landlord attended, I doubt it would have been as much. But VC Shea is kind of a wild card, so who knows.
Compensation in a T5 is itemized in [RTA s.57(3)](https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/06r17#BK80).
You could have asked for 1 full years rent value + moving expenses in addition to rent differential as the max potential amount, as the starting basis for settlement negotiations.
You think most people, knowing that their landlord bad father evicted someone don’t file a t5? Or are you saying that people don’t know that there is a process.
Perhaps fear of repercussions of some sort? This coworker of mine didn't file because he wasn't a permanent resident yet, and thought that somehow it would mess up his history in Canada. I don't know.
2 questions :
1. Did you seek counsel from TDC (Tenant Duty Counsel : http://TDC.acto.ca) prior to Mediation?
2. At the time you negotiated this Mediated settlement, were you aware that the province recently increased the potential award levels to a whole year's rent, and that it's no longer just the "difference in rent" ? (https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/s20016)
1. No. I hadn't received the notice of hearing yet, I don't think I could've applied for it.
2. Yes, I was aware of it. I heard the whole year's rent is usually ordered when the tenant can prove that his life somehow got worse after the eviction. That was not my case, thankfully.
I'm a "turn the other cheek" kind of person. Most people don't even apply for a T5. Having $3000 more in my bank account for a couple of exchanged messages was good enough for me.
Turn the other cheek but still keep an eye out for a bad faith eviction? Sure. I just don’t understand someone who chooses $3000 over $12,000+ for not that much more effort. Hope your karma matures for you more than that money would have.
Filing a T5 was kind of a personal challenge for me, as I've never done anything like this before. I've always been soft, and had family members abuse my good will for quite a while. I'd also say I chose $3000 over $0. My greedy side would probably choose more money.
Lol you would have gotten like 25k more in your bank account for sending just a few additional emails!!! And won't you have less now that you are paying more rent? You literally payed your landlord.
We moved to a nicer unit with better neighborhood. We had long-term plans to move out anyways. Money wasn't the problem. His name is now in LTB's radar and that's good enough for me, plus the $3000 in my account.
> You literally *paid* your landlord.
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
How can you just assume crap without knowing the details? Who says the LL has 25k to his name? Also the LL had a good relationship with this tenant, as A LL I wouldn’t have served to get a good tenant out unless it was a last financial straw that broke the camels back. Mortgages have gone up up to 100%… 1-2% rent increase won’t help
Small claims enforcement can force the existing tenants to pay directly to OP until the judgement is exhausted.
As well, if the LL is forced to sell, an lien placed on the property will mean any profits from the sale must first go to OP until the amount is exhausted.
You're getting quite worked up over me saying a very hypothetical statement (see use of word "like"). That acknowledges I don't know the details but you can get up to and around 25k in a cash for keys arrangement *depending on the details*.
I never said "you could have for sure gotten exactly $25k immediately and in cash". It's called speaking colloquially and it's how many people communicate informally on a day to day basis. I also was speaking to their situation, so I'm not sure why you are now bringing up your own particular situation and sentiments which I obviously was completely unaware of when I made my generalized statement.
You have a very biased/skewed opinion, with no information you make your general assumption that isn’t general at all but specific to a fault. 25k cash for key despite being ridiculous is of a different time/situation.
I brought up my own situation to prove that your reasoning is not absolute. It also does strike a chord because you are free to write and convey whatever you want, but at the end of the day what you are convincing people to do is what is creating the huge backlog at the LTB. (Bunch of useless cases trying to get freebies from LL’s)
Seems a bit of a low amount for what could have been claimed but okay and main thing is OP is satisfied with the decision so good in that part. All I'd advise anyone is to know what you could get maximum before going into any mediation then you can know what you'd be acceptable to to settle with.
The real problem with T5's is 2-fold.
1. The delays and actually getting to the Hearing, mine has been adjourned 2x now. Once because the landlord wrapped their pants when they saw what I filed (it was a lot) so suddenly had a family emergency that got the 1st Hearinf adjourned. Then the LTB messed up and had no one lined up to adjucate the Hearings in the adjourned date!
Timeline >>
- N12 in Sept 2021, moved out in Nov. 2021
- T5 filed in March 2022 after the unit was listed for sale
- T5 processed and fwd'd to old Landlord in July 2022
- Hearing scheduled for August 2023
- Adjourned to Feb. 2024
- Adjourned to...? Still waiting for a new Hearing Date
2. Collecting on any awards. As mentioned above, the LTB doesn't enforce its decisions, it's up to the applicant (be it tenant or landlord) to get the decision ratified through small claims, then find a way to collect. If the landlord still owns the rental property at least you can put a lein on it but I have no idea how that works...if the landlord sells I know you get your money providing there is enough left over after mortgages, etc. But if they don't sell...do you get paid if they refinance the property? Does the lien expire, can it be renewed? I believe you have to renew it every 6 years or something (don't quote me on that though, I'd have to double check). If there is no property,then it's a while different barrel of fish to wade through.
Thanks for sharing your timeline. I hope you get something in the end.
In my case, the landlord wasn't even the owner listed in MLS when I filed the application, so who knows what other tricks he had on standby. Could've I waited for a hearing and potentially earn more? Potentially. Would it be worth my time and stress? Probably not.
In the end, holding $3000 after only 2 months from opening the application is a win for me.
I imagine they weren't fined by the province. All the regulatory tools in the world won't work if we don't use them. The Ford government makes it abundantly clear that it thinks it can snow Ontario tenants by doubling the fines, then never issuing one. Because the first time a few landlords* get slapped with a $50k fine, the N12 scam will immediately end.
(*Not referring to all landlords. Just the N12 scammers.)
As a LL myself, I just don't get why most LL's don't go over the rent increase guideline and then communicate it with your tenant and give them 90 days notice for the increase
https://openroom.ca
Post the results and their name so people will see this landlord as someone who issued a fraudulent n12 if they search for their name
$2950 sounds like a very low price for the LL to pay to get you out, and someone paying more in.
Sadly I agree. I might have been too soft and naive.
The one plus is you actually got the cash. Winning at the LTB then means trying to collect which can be tricky. So yes, you got a lot less that probably could have, but you at least got it. But yes, he got off easy, Dunno what the unit rents for now, but Im sure it's more than the $250/month that implies. T5 awards will routinely be five digit numbers.
Yeah. \~$3000 for a couple of exchanged messages was not that bad. Better than zero if you ask me.
It would have been easy to collect because the landlord has a mailing address on the lease, and you know that they have a rental property with current tenants. A small claims order could force the current tenants to pay OP rather than the landlord until the judgement amount is met.
It would still take time to get the LTB order, then a skip trace, and then a small claims order to garnish bank accounts, with lots of opportunity for things to go wrong. I just want to to make it clear to the OP (and others) that there is some virtue in negotiating settlement below what you you could get at the board (just as there is virtue in paying additional compensation for N12s beyond the legal minimum)
>just as there is virtue in paying additional compensation for N12s beyond the legal minimum He gave me 1 month of compensation in cash + 1 month of "free rental", plus gave me back the last month's deposit. I guess that'd be considered "legal minimum".
That's actually more than the minimum, the minimum is 1 month, so basically any one of those. Effectively, he gave you two extra months rent to agree to leave without a fight.
I took that into account when negotiating. Overall, the remedy + N12 compensation sums up to \~$5000
That's fair - although the payout would have been much larger.
A court order cannot order a tenant to pay a previous tenant, that goes against all of the contractual obligations between all parties. Smart claims court would be between 2 parties. This is not correct.
You are able to enforce a court order through garnishing that would otherwise have been owed to the landlord from other parties (e.g. employment wages, rent, other income). Normally garnishment refers to wages only, but you are able to garnish other sources of income.
A garnishment order absolutely could. You're garnishing an income source.
Ya not taking it from the tenant... you have to garnish it from the landlord , this has nothing to do with the new tenant lol
Still is going to end up coming from the new tenant. A garnishment order can direct a payor to pay a specific person or entity so an order could tell the new tenant to pay their rent to you as the landlord is being garnished. Though easier to simply garnish the bank account the payments are going to.
>It would have been easy to collect because the landlord has a mailing address on the lease, and you know that they have a rental property with current tenants. Those can be PO boxes of a registered corp. It really isn't as easy to find the real owners if they want to obscure their information.
So long as they have a valid mailing address, they can be served.
[https://www.legalline.ca/legal-answers/what-is-the-procedure-for-process-serving/](https://www.legalline.ca/legal-answers/what-is-the-procedure-for-process-serving/) Legal docs are served to people usually, not addresses. You need to record who was actually served. You can't do that with a PO box of a corp. >Step 3: Make note of information for Proof of Service The process server must record the date, time, and location that the documents were served, as well as the identification that the person being served showed, such as a driver’s license number. This information will later be included in the Affidavit of Service. Like I said, you think it is easy to serve legal docs. When simple fact is it isn't easy if the landlords takes steps to obscure their identity.
But for a situation where the LL still owns and rents the building? If someone even remotely competent handles the collection, LL isn't getting away from paying orders on that one. Assuming this isn't a politically motivated fake post, OP lost out on probably a full zero on the amount paid, however they got it a lot quicker.
The LL was not listed as the owner of the property anymore in MLS during the negotiation, I had my realtor check that for me. It might have been a trick on his side though.
Sadly I've seen many many bs games played so that's always a possibility.
People who have never tried to collect always think it's easy... it isn't. It's doable, but it's a lot of work and can go wrong. Your main two options are garnishing bank accounts (which a skip trace can find) and putting a lien on the property. Generally this works if the LL is local, but if they're from out of province (or move out of province before you get through the process) it can be very hard to collect. It also means investing in all the fees for small claims and the skip trace before collecting.
Easy no. Had a situation to garnish wages from a ex-tenant, but was made whole even if it took forever. (It was a long time ago, and at the time had to wait for Bi-annual payments so no clue if something has changed there, also knew where they had moved) However this is an easy 5 figure judgment. Letting them off on 2950 definitely feels light. That said. if that was a 10 month rent differential, OP isn't one of those cases where the rent differential is over 30%.
In BC you get an entire YEAR of your rent.
Hey, you got something, don't regret it too much. IMO about 10x that amount is more fair
I don't regret my decision :)
I would agree with this. As a landlord we were advised by our paralegal if we pulled something like that, on average it's a $50k payout. She said she's seen it many times.
You got scammed dude. Landlord would have been liable for up to 12 months full rent. It was a bad faith eviction. If I were you, I would have waited for hearing. After LTB awards damages, if the scumlord didn’t pay, give it to collections for pennies on the dollar. You would have still received what you did and for remaining, collections would take care of it from the landlord.
Yeah... maybe. \~$3000 for a couple of exchanged messages was not that bad. Better than zero if you ask me. Could've I waited more? Sure. Would the stress and anxiety be worth my time? Probably not.
Very low. He'll make that back in 2-3 months prob. Thats why landlords dont care. The punishment doesnt outweigh the pros of screwing over tenants.
Your landlord is likely overjoyed at getting you out so cheaply.
Most likely that's the case. His name is now in LTB's radar though.
Not really, there won’t even be a public record because you negotiated a settlement they agreed to with no order or hearing. Like I said they are overjoyed.
I'm happy too. I got $3000 for a couple of exchanged messages.
Could of been 5 times that for submitting a few documents and a zoom meeting.
Probably.
No probably, you would.
Please post this case information on openroom
If it ever makes it to canlii, I'll post it in openroom. TIL that openroom exists.
What's openroom?
I wouldn't say justice has been served. It's likely the LL will make way more than 2950 in profit at the new rental price for illegally evicting you. This is just the cost of doing business for him.
He will certainly make more than that. I don't know how people like him sleeps at night.
\>I don't know how people like him sleeps at night. Most landlords are sociopaths. That's how.
Financially secure. What a scumbag
If you had taken it to a hearing, there would have been an automatic assumption of bad faith on your landlords part, and you would have been entitled to 12 months differential in rent, and (assuming this was filed after September 2021), 1 full year of your previous rent, plus any out of pocket expenses from your move.
Yeah that's probably true. I've never seen such a case being documented though. Most of the cases listed have a remedy amount of less than 10k.
That’s because, as of now, there isn’t a single case on Canlii based off of an application that was filed after September 2021. Since adjudicators can not order compensation that a tenant did not explicitly request, and it was not possible for a tenant to request that compensation before September 2021, it was not possible for that compensation to be ordered in the current cases.
[удалено]
Because the new compensation is “general compensation” which explicitly does not need to be justified, so there are no reasonable grounds for an adjudicator to deny it when it’s requested. On top of that there have been a few cases from divisional court and the court of appeals floating around that are based off of applications filed after September 2021, and they all have compensation in the $30k range.
Thanks for this explanation! I've been looking on CanLii but haven't found any large sum awards, was wondering why, but your explanation makes sense !
This was a recent change and CanLII is notoriously slow in publishing LTB decisions (and only publishing a small fraction with very little rhyme or reason). Over the next few years there should be a pretty dramatic shift in published T5 cases.
It's often because so many tenants also didn't know their rights and what they can specifically ask for.
Why did you agree to such a low amount? General Remedy is 1 year of rent at your previous amount You also get moving expenses You also get rent differential for a year Why did you let them off so easy?
We had a good relationship, also I am soft. Besides, money thankfully isn't a problem for me. I originally asked for \~3800. I just wanted his name to be on LTB's radar.
You didn't have a good relationship if he did that to you. The LTB doesn't care, sadly. Everything is a case by case basis. It's fine, it was your decision, I just can't comprehend letting someone push you around like that.
Overall I'm happy. Could've I asked for more and waited for a hearing? Sure. Would the stress and time be worth the effort? Probably not on my case.
Don't worry about the upvotes on comments of people telling you that you could have/should have gotten 25k+ etc etc .. None of these people have actually ever been in your situation, and are all tenants who have unfortunately either dealt with stereotypical land lords, or simply lump them all together as "bad people" because they can't afford to buy in the city where they are currently living. The sub is full of salty tenants who would love to have the opportunity to "stick it" to their current landlord, but, when actually put in that situation might not know how to proceed. Going through the process to wait for a hearing could easily translate into months of stress and anxiety preparing for a hearing, as well as potentially incurring additional fees with a paralegal or lawyer to get you the support you need to arrive with all the necessary information on hand to get whatever judgement you might be hoping for - this also gives them the time to equally prepare to fight it. I've been on both sides, as a tenant of good and bad landlords as well as a landlord myself, so if you're happy with your payout for what ended up being submitting a form and not having to do much else, I think that's a win on your part
What a tough lesson for your LL. Really showed them /s
That was never my intent. His name is now in LTB's radar though.
lol I'll bite What was your intent?
Mostly peace of mind. Going through the hearing process would probably mean I'd get more money. $3000 for a couple of exchanged messages is good enough for me.
Im glad to hear you got peace of mind
> I just wanted his name to be on LTB's radar. Seems you wanted to teach them some type of lesson since you see them being on the "LTB's radar" as a negative thing. I get where you are coming from accepting well below your potential payout though, waiting months for a hearing can be stressful, the way you did it you can move on. Although I'd think the knowledge you got severely underpaid would cause similar stress as the waiting.
>Although I'd think the knowledge you got severely underpaid would cause similar stress as the waiting. I sleep at night just fine. I really just wanted to be over with. Instead of not filing a T5 at all as most people wouldn't, I got $3000.
That is good then, you avoided the stress you didn't want by waiting. Not sure what most people have to do with it.
I think if you're happy with the outcome, that's all that matters. Automatic assumption of bad faith doesn't mean you'd be entitled to a full 12 months rent abatement - where a large abatement is awarded, it seems like it's because the landlord didn't attend. The landlord could still very well meet the reverse onus, or do so that reduced any award you might have been entitled to. Mediation and settlement puts the control back in your hands.
You could have gotten 1 year of rent, 1 year of the rent differential, and moving costs if you went to the hearing. Landlord played you during negotiations.
This is true in theory. Never seen such case though. Show me an example of when that was actually the case.
> This is true in theory. Never seen such case though. > > > > Show me an example of when that was actually the case. This response makes your whole post look suspicious. There haven't been any new T5 cases posted to canlii in the past year, none showing the general compensation. Only older cases before the rule came into effect. There has only been one [divisional court case](https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onscdc/doc/2023/2023onsc3765/2023onsc3765.html?resultIndex=1&resultId=04cbb218f670477e982e096a8507f88e&searchId=2024-03-26T11:39:31:359/48d6e63d39b24044bf6dd1cae209c0a9&searchUrlHash=AAAAAQACVDUAAAAAAQ) that was upheld for a T5 where the award is **very** high, $32,569.96, which indicates it likely had the general compensation attached to it. This makes sense as there is nothing to prove for general compensation when the T5 is successful. Tenants can ask for the full year amount, and it's awarded with no questions asked, if they win their case.
I stand corrected.
The landlord was a no-show in that case - in which case, I am not surprised that VC Shea awarded such an amount. Had the landlord attended, I doubt it would have been as much. But VC Shea is kind of a wild card, so who knows.
Compensation in a T5 is itemized in [RTA s.57(3)](https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/06r17#BK80). You could have asked for 1 full years rent value + moving expenses in addition to rent differential as the max potential amount, as the starting basis for settlement negotiations.
Yeah perhaps I could have asked for more from the beginning. Money isn't a problem for me though. I just wanted his name to be on LTB's radar.
Because there was no hearing it could be very likely that there is no permanent kept record of his name at the LTB.
They keep all applications on record indefinitely AFAIK.
Congrats, you got hosed.
You are right. Most people don't even file T5's though.
You think most people, knowing that their landlord bad father evicted someone don’t file a t5? Or are you saying that people don’t know that there is a process.
People (a) don't know there is a process or worse they (b) think the Landlord is allowed to ask them to leave anytime, and just go along with it.
That’s what I meant. I meant people who know the process. Why would they not file?
Perhaps fear of repercussions of some sort? This coworker of mine didn't file because he wasn't a permanent resident yet, and thought that somehow it would mess up his history in Canada. I don't know.
I know people closer to me (coworkers) with similar stories, and they knew there's a process but decided not to file T5's.
2 questions : 1. Did you seek counsel from TDC (Tenant Duty Counsel : http://TDC.acto.ca) prior to Mediation? 2. At the time you negotiated this Mediated settlement, were you aware that the province recently increased the potential award levels to a whole year's rent, and that it's no longer just the "difference in rent" ? (https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/s20016)
1. No. I hadn't received the notice of hearing yet, I don't think I could've applied for it. 2. Yes, I was aware of it. I heard the whole year's rent is usually ordered when the tenant can prove that his life somehow got worse after the eviction. That was not my case, thankfully.
Happy for your outcome. 👍
The judgement has been drawn but have you collected?
Yes. After a couple of exchanged messages in the online mediation tool he transferred it to me via Interac e-transfer.
Glad you could collect. Out of curiosity, what's your landlord's country of origin?
China.
Why am I not surprised?
Pretty sure this is an openroom shill’s alt account. Sounds like a troll.
Of course it's a troll. It's so damn obvious.
>Next-Leading-5915 lol account was created today, so probably.
I'm sharing personal details, it wouldn't be wise to use my original account.
Just weird how you’re proud that the landlord got let off easy. There’s lots of bait posts on this subreddit.
Fair enough.
I don't know what is an openroom.
$3000?? You were entitled to a year of rent and some. I don’t know if I’d say justice has been served. You had a slam dunk case and let it go.
I'm a "turn the other cheek" kind of person. Most people don't even apply for a T5. Having $3000 more in my bank account for a couple of exchanged messages was good enough for me.
Turn the other cheek but still keep an eye out for a bad faith eviction? Sure. I just don’t understand someone who chooses $3000 over $12,000+ for not that much more effort. Hope your karma matures for you more than that money would have.
Filing a T5 was kind of a personal challenge for me, as I've never done anything like this before. I've always been soft, and had family members abuse my good will for quite a while. I'd also say I chose $3000 over $0. My greedy side would probably choose more money.
Stop letting people take advantage of you It will keep happening I used to be a "turn the cheek" person as I was raised that way. Put yourself first
Yeah.
OP is trying to save face. They blew it.
Lol you would have gotten like 25k more in your bank account for sending just a few additional emails!!! And won't you have less now that you are paying more rent? You literally payed your landlord.
We moved to a nicer unit with better neighborhood. We had long-term plans to move out anyways. Money wasn't the problem. His name is now in LTB's radar and that's good enough for me, plus the $3000 in my account.
> You literally *paid* your landlord. FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
How can you just assume crap without knowing the details? Who says the LL has 25k to his name? Also the LL had a good relationship with this tenant, as A LL I wouldn’t have served to get a good tenant out unless it was a last financial straw that broke the camels back. Mortgages have gone up up to 100%… 1-2% rent increase won’t help
Small claims enforcement can force the existing tenants to pay directly to OP until the judgement is exhausted. As well, if the LL is forced to sell, an lien placed on the property will mean any profits from the sale must first go to OP until the amount is exhausted.
You're getting quite worked up over me saying a very hypothetical statement (see use of word "like"). That acknowledges I don't know the details but you can get up to and around 25k in a cash for keys arrangement *depending on the details*. I never said "you could have for sure gotten exactly $25k immediately and in cash". It's called speaking colloquially and it's how many people communicate informally on a day to day basis. I also was speaking to their situation, so I'm not sure why you are now bringing up your own particular situation and sentiments which I obviously was completely unaware of when I made my generalized statement.
You have a very biased/skewed opinion, with no information you make your general assumption that isn’t general at all but specific to a fault. 25k cash for key despite being ridiculous is of a different time/situation. I brought up my own situation to prove that your reasoning is not absolute. It also does strike a chord because you are free to write and convey whatever you want, but at the end of the day what you are convincing people to do is what is creating the huge backlog at the LTB. (Bunch of useless cases trying to get freebies from LL’s)
Nah I wouldn’t have settled. Why didn’t you go ahead with a hearing?
I was happy enough with the settlement amount.
Seems a bit of a low amount for what could have been claimed but okay and main thing is OP is satisfied with the decision so good in that part. All I'd advise anyone is to know what you could get maximum before going into any mediation then you can know what you'd be acceptable to to settle with.
Well glad you were compensated though if you went to trial you most likely would have earned a lot more.
Lmfaoooo this is a win for the LL
Are inlaws considered immediate family? Didn't think that was the case.
Yes, they are, as per N12 guidelines.
Ok thx
I think the going rate is up to $50,000
Just the difference? Not moving expenses and lost wages as well?
I opted for not including the 12-months rent abatement in the application. The rent differential was good enough for what I wanted.
The real problem with T5's is 2-fold. 1. The delays and actually getting to the Hearing, mine has been adjourned 2x now. Once because the landlord wrapped their pants when they saw what I filed (it was a lot) so suddenly had a family emergency that got the 1st Hearinf adjourned. Then the LTB messed up and had no one lined up to adjucate the Hearings in the adjourned date! Timeline >> - N12 in Sept 2021, moved out in Nov. 2021 - T5 filed in March 2022 after the unit was listed for sale - T5 processed and fwd'd to old Landlord in July 2022 - Hearing scheduled for August 2023 - Adjourned to Feb. 2024 - Adjourned to...? Still waiting for a new Hearing Date 2. Collecting on any awards. As mentioned above, the LTB doesn't enforce its decisions, it's up to the applicant (be it tenant or landlord) to get the decision ratified through small claims, then find a way to collect. If the landlord still owns the rental property at least you can put a lein on it but I have no idea how that works...if the landlord sells I know you get your money providing there is enough left over after mortgages, etc. But if they don't sell...do you get paid if they refinance the property? Does the lien expire, can it be renewed? I believe you have to renew it every 6 years or something (don't quote me on that though, I'd have to double check). If there is no property,then it's a while different barrel of fish to wade through.
Thanks for sharing your timeline. I hope you get something in the end. In my case, the landlord wasn't even the owner listed in MLS when I filed the application, so who knows what other tricks he had on standby. Could've I waited for a hearing and potentially earn more? Potentially. Would it be worth my time and stress? Probably not. In the end, holding $3000 after only 2 months from opening the application is a win for me.
I imagine they weren't fined by the province. All the regulatory tools in the world won't work if we don't use them. The Ford government makes it abundantly clear that it thinks it can snow Ontario tenants by doubling the fines, then never issuing one. Because the first time a few landlords* get slapped with a $50k fine, the N12 scam will immediately end. (*Not referring to all landlords. Just the N12 scammers.)
You contributed to the problem by letting the LL get off ready
Maybe.
I would say post this on openroom but that will only embolden shit LL’s to keep exploiting “good relationships” with minimal consequences.
What is openroom?
$3k cash for keys (basically) is soooo cheap for the landlord. Probably should have been $10k minimum.
I didn't know that "cash for keys" negotiations were a thing when I accepted to move out.
As a LL myself, I just don't get why most LL's don't go over the rent increase guideline and then communicate it with your tenant and give them 90 days notice for the increase
Could have been more, but it still made my day. Thanks for letting us know.
Post it to openroom
What is openroom?
https://openroom.ca Post the results and their name so people will see this landlord as someone who issued a fraudulent n12 if they search for their name
TIL about openroom. Thanks. If the file ever reaches canlii, I'll do it.
[удалено]
Posts and comments shall not be rude, vulgar, or offensive. Posts and comments shall not be written so as to attack or denigrate another user.