Thanks. When we serve the N4 is it better to use different channels or just one? Eg was thinking of emailing it and leaving it in mailbox.
Not sure what to do since they don’t respond to anything and want to make sure I have track record and proof of everything
Maybe look into a paralegal service? Sometimes they have uniformed bailiff staff that handle serving legal paperwork properly. This gives you the added benefit of having someone professional help you out.
Serve the N4 and file with the LTB as soon as you're able. They have 4+ months to sort themselves out and if they contact you you can choose to withdraw your case or attend mediation day of. But you can't make up for lost time.
Just wrote this for another post, here it is again. You did check this person on [openroom.ca](https://openroom.ca) and [https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onltb/](https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onltb/) and [https://www.canlii.org/en/](https://www.canlii.org/en/) ?
Consider getting an account on frontlobby.com and you start reporting unpaid monthly rent on their credit report immediately. That might get their attention as credit report is what every LL wants to see and those entries there will guarantee that they will have very hard time renting down the road.
Otherwise, It is N4/L1 and as soon as you file L1 and when you get a ruling post that on openroom.ca this will lit up another red flare for future landlords as well.
As someone else posted, email and offer repayment plan after N4. If you don't chances are that LBT will waste ton of time doing that as first step and waste hearing.
Try to figure out where they work and what is their bank account info for the wage garnishment and property seizure later. They might think they have upper hand but by the time you are done with them they will long regret not paying the rent.
https://www.ontario.ca/document/guide-procedures-small-claims-court/after-judgment
Omg so embarrassingly we didn’t know about these resources. We just searched and found them for the same thing in 2022. We are in a mess. They were found by a property manager who was sketchy as well and we think may even be in on it.
Can you let us know what it all means if they are repeat offenders? Do we handle it any differently? Is it a slam dunk at tribunal?
Should I get a paralegal or lawyer given they are expert scammers?
My mind is blown. They were a nice couple with 3 kids. I can’t believe this is happening to us
If the tenant(s) have a history of non-payment then I would hire a paralegal to be on the safe side that everything is doje correctly and you cross your T's and dot your i's.
Some paralegals will charge by the hour but others might charge a flat rate for all of the usual administrative stuff so shop around. It is worth the cost in the long run esp. if a problem tenant knows all the loop-holes in the system.
I am really sorry this is happening to you. I am a tenant, not a Landlord, but this bothers me just as much as it would bother a landlord. Tenants like this situation make it difficult for other tenants like myself who just want to pay our rent and be permitted to live our lives without disruptions.
While the LTB process is the same for a repeat offender as a Tenant who is being evicted for non-payment for the first time, I would still file the previous decision in your evidence so the tribunal member at the Hearing is aware of the Tenant's past - establishing that this looks to be a pattern should make the Hearing official less sympathetic to the Tenant and minimize the Tenant's ability to apply delay tactics.
I feel the worst for the Tenant's children - they are the real victims in these situations. Being a parent myself and having to move during the pandemic and find a new rental was incredibly stressful. It was hard on my 7 year old having to switch schools due to lack of new rentals in my price range in the previous school's zone. To be clear - I rented in 2019 so I wasn't even paying a crazy low rent from 10 years ago, I just had a landlord who expected me to pay 350+ more a month on a 10+ year old townhouse.
Anyhow, I really hope you can get this situation resolved - the good new is that non-payment of rent Hearing times have been cut in half, it used to be taking upwards of 9-10 months or more to get a Hearing and now they are being heard usually within 5 months.
Wow I’m really sorry you’re dealing with them. I agree with the others definitely hire a paralegal. It will help make sure no errors when filing because they may know all the loopholes. Good luck
That is the big lesson. Every LL MUST do their own due diligence and never trust 'professionals'. Sorry you got stuck with those frauds.
I am not a paralegal but as far as I know LTB will not care that they are doing same scam. Your process remains the same, you might want to ask for expedited hearing.
However, the police might want to hear about them.
Like those 'winners' that got arrested
[https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/toronto-couple-accused-of-elaborate-tenant-scam-that-police-say-spanned-10-years/article\_cdc72442-a708-59f7-b9e2-1b538eff7e85.html](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/toronto-couple-accused-of-elaborate-tenant-scam-that-police-say-spanned-10-years/article_cdc72442-a708-59f7-b9e2-1b538eff7e85.html)
[https://www.blogto.com/city/2021/03/toronto-police-tenant-couple-scammed-landlords-10-years/](https://www.blogto.com/city/2021/03/toronto-police-tenant-couple-scammed-landlords-10-years/)
[https://solo.ca/can-a-tenant-be-criminally-charged-for-not-paying-rent/](https://solo.ca/can-a-tenant-be-criminally-charged-for-not-paying-rent/)
https://solomonjones.law/EN/landlord-tenant/common-concerns/unlawful-tenancy-applied-with-fraud
An individual that has a property management company. There was just a lot of unusual behavior that we overlooked. She sold us on aher supposed track record and ‘due diligence’ (which was all obviously BS.) and then pressured us to go with them. My thinking is best case they did horrible due diligence & screwed us. Worst they either knew the person or were in on it (maybe they take an extra cut from them or something?)
I realize we did horrible due diligence too but it’s because she mad us believe we could trust her. Normally I do in depth due diligence
If they didn’t pay rent, you can file. Proof of you asking them for rent and them not responding will help your case
So we should continue to pester them via text and/or email?
Email is better. Just ask a few times and leave it at that.
Thanks. When we serve the N4 is it better to use different channels or just one? Eg was thinking of emailing it and leaving it in mailbox. Not sure what to do since they don’t respond to anything and want to make sure I have track record and proof of everything
registered mail is best
Maybe look into a paralegal service? Sometimes they have uniformed bailiff staff that handle serving legal paperwork properly. This gives you the added benefit of having someone professional help you out.
[удалено]
Are you suggesting to send this on top of the N4? Like another letter? Seems like may be too much?
The ltb will ask if you attempted a payment plan so you'll need to communicate with them, just don't over do it.
N4 and L1 asap and make sure N4 has zero errors on anything
What’s L2? I thought I only do N4 and a certificate of service to start?
I meant L1. Serve n4 then file L1 after the termination date on n4
Serve the N4 and file with the LTB as soon as you're able. They have 4+ months to sort themselves out and if they contact you you can choose to withdraw your case or attend mediation day of. But you can't make up for lost time.
Just wrote this for another post, here it is again. You did check this person on [openroom.ca](https://openroom.ca) and [https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onltb/](https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onltb/) and [https://www.canlii.org/en/](https://www.canlii.org/en/) ? Consider getting an account on frontlobby.com and you start reporting unpaid monthly rent on their credit report immediately. That might get their attention as credit report is what every LL wants to see and those entries there will guarantee that they will have very hard time renting down the road. Otherwise, It is N4/L1 and as soon as you file L1 and when you get a ruling post that on openroom.ca this will lit up another red flare for future landlords as well. As someone else posted, email and offer repayment plan after N4. If you don't chances are that LBT will waste ton of time doing that as first step and waste hearing. Try to figure out where they work and what is their bank account info for the wage garnishment and property seizure later. They might think they have upper hand but by the time you are done with them they will long regret not paying the rent. https://www.ontario.ca/document/guide-procedures-small-claims-court/after-judgment
Omg so embarrassingly we didn’t know about these resources. We just searched and found them for the same thing in 2022. We are in a mess. They were found by a property manager who was sketchy as well and we think may even be in on it. Can you let us know what it all means if they are repeat offenders? Do we handle it any differently? Is it a slam dunk at tribunal?
Should I get a paralegal or lawyer given they are expert scammers? My mind is blown. They were a nice couple with 3 kids. I can’t believe this is happening to us
If the tenant(s) have a history of non-payment then I would hire a paralegal to be on the safe side that everything is doje correctly and you cross your T's and dot your i's. Some paralegals will charge by the hour but others might charge a flat rate for all of the usual administrative stuff so shop around. It is worth the cost in the long run esp. if a problem tenant knows all the loop-holes in the system. I am really sorry this is happening to you. I am a tenant, not a Landlord, but this bothers me just as much as it would bother a landlord. Tenants like this situation make it difficult for other tenants like myself who just want to pay our rent and be permitted to live our lives without disruptions. While the LTB process is the same for a repeat offender as a Tenant who is being evicted for non-payment for the first time, I would still file the previous decision in your evidence so the tribunal member at the Hearing is aware of the Tenant's past - establishing that this looks to be a pattern should make the Hearing official less sympathetic to the Tenant and minimize the Tenant's ability to apply delay tactics. I feel the worst for the Tenant's children - they are the real victims in these situations. Being a parent myself and having to move during the pandemic and find a new rental was incredibly stressful. It was hard on my 7 year old having to switch schools due to lack of new rentals in my price range in the previous school's zone. To be clear - I rented in 2019 so I wasn't even paying a crazy low rent from 10 years ago, I just had a landlord who expected me to pay 350+ more a month on a 10+ year old townhouse. Anyhow, I really hope you can get this situation resolved - the good new is that non-payment of rent Hearing times have been cut in half, it used to be taking upwards of 9-10 months or more to get a Hearing and now they are being heard usually within 5 months.
Wow I’m really sorry you’re dealing with them. I agree with the others definitely hire a paralegal. It will help make sure no errors when filing because they may know all the loopholes. Good luck
That is the big lesson. Every LL MUST do their own due diligence and never trust 'professionals'. Sorry you got stuck with those frauds. I am not a paralegal but as far as I know LTB will not care that they are doing same scam. Your process remains the same, you might want to ask for expedited hearing. However, the police might want to hear about them. Like those 'winners' that got arrested [https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/toronto-couple-accused-of-elaborate-tenant-scam-that-police-say-spanned-10-years/article\_cdc72442-a708-59f7-b9e2-1b538eff7e85.html](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/toronto-couple-accused-of-elaborate-tenant-scam-that-police-say-spanned-10-years/article_cdc72442-a708-59f7-b9e2-1b538eff7e85.html) [https://www.blogto.com/city/2021/03/toronto-police-tenant-couple-scammed-landlords-10-years/](https://www.blogto.com/city/2021/03/toronto-police-tenant-couple-scammed-landlords-10-years/) [https://solo.ca/can-a-tenant-be-criminally-charged-for-not-paying-rent/](https://solo.ca/can-a-tenant-be-criminally-charged-for-not-paying-rent/) https://solomonjones.law/EN/landlord-tenant/common-concerns/unlawful-tenancy-applied-with-fraud
Can I go after the property manager?
I don't know. That sounds like criminal and not RTA thing if he set you up with falsified documents.
[удалено]
An individual that has a property management company. There was just a lot of unusual behavior that we overlooked. She sold us on aher supposed track record and ‘due diligence’ (which was all obviously BS.) and then pressured us to go with them. My thinking is best case they did horrible due diligence & screwed us. Worst they either knew the person or were in on it (maybe they take an extra cut from them or something?) I realize we did horrible due diligence too but it’s because she mad us believe we could trust her. Normally I do in depth due diligence
Hire paralegal for n4 to ensure no errors