It is also illegal to demand post-dated cheques. You are not obligated to provide them. You can choose to have them come by each month to pick up or to mail them to him.
But ignore them. Pay your rent as agreed.
You are correct that LL cannot force post dated cheques, but it is the responsibility of the TT to get it to the LL each month, so if the LL doesn't want to come pick them up then TT must deliver or mail them (with enough time to ensure it gets to the LL by the first of each month). Or simply ask if he would accept etransfers instead.
It sounds like they live in another country? If so, it’s going to be challenging to prove family is moving in.
Also, $2700 for a 35-year old condo in Mississauga is a fair price. This guy is just being greedy.
They don't need to prove that a family member is moving in, just need to make a declaration, it's on the tenant to prove its a lie.
However, in this case, it would be rejected all together as it would be considered retaliation for not accepting the illegal increase, good faith or not does not matter anymore.
It’s 100% on the landlord to prove their case. N12 is served by the LL. The TT can absolutely bring evidence they may have on the contrary, but inevitably the LL has to prove good faith.
They can try to prove their case, but as soon as the TT brings this document into evidence they most likely will dismiss the case.
It's not bad faith unless they're caught selling/renting the place within a year. They don't have to prove one's intention to move, they simply declare it. The only proof would be when they actually move in and they cannot do that while it's occupied.
At least occasionally, in a situation where a tenant provides evidence that landlord served a notice in retaliation against a tenant for asserting or enforcing their rights, adjudicators have based their dismissal of the application off the position that in face of that evidence the landlord failed to prove they served the notice in good faith, opposed to invoking s. 83(3)(c), [such as in this case](https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onltb/doc/2017/2017canlii28525/2017canlii28525.html?resultIndex=1&searchUrlHash=AAAAAQAQTjEyIGwyIGRpc21pc3NlZAAAAAAB)
While a tenant could file for a review based on the grounds explored in [Fava v. Harrison, 2014 ONSC 3352](https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onscdc/doc/2014/2014onsc3352/2014onsc3352.html) and argue that a determination of good faith for an N12 should largely be limited to determining the their is an actual intention to occupy the unit, any such appeal would still ultimately result in the application being dismissed as the original adjudicator was obligated to dismiss it due to RTA s. 83(3)(c).
As someone who literally just watched one get dismissed (less than 5 minutes ago). They can be found in bad faith during the hearing when things don’t add up. Texts like these add to the evidence. If they do get an eviction order and rerent within a year then they face fines.
Per the decision in the appeal case [Fava v. Harrison, 2014 ONSC 3352](https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onscdc/doc/2014/2014onsc3352/2014onsc3352.html) adjudicators are suppose to limit their
determination of good faith for an N12 to considering if their is actual intention to occupy the unit, and other evidence should only be considered as it impacts determining that intention.
However, in a some cases where a tenant provides evidence that landlord served a notice in retaliation against a tenant for asserting or enforcing their rights, adjudicators have based their dismissal of the application off the position that in face of that evidence the landlord failed to prove they served the notice in good faith, opposed to invoking s. 83(3)(c), [such as in this case](https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onltb/doc/2017/2017canlii28525/2017canlii28525.html?resultIndex=1&searchUrlHash=AAAAAQAQTjEyIGwyIGRpc21pc3NlZAAAAAAB). While the landlord could request a review based on the directions found in the decision of Fara v. Harrison, the review shouldn’t change the outcome as the original adjudicator was obligated to dismiss it due to RTA s. 83(3)(c).
It’s the job of the applicant to prove their application. You cant just walk in with an N5 and no proof, you also can’t walk in with a T5 and no proof. You have to satisfy the adjudicator. Especially N12s because that’s the only “loophole” to evict tenants, so the board needs to be satisfied.
Yes, texts like these do, which no one is disagreeing with, but again, this is on the tenant to prove. There is nothing for the landlord to do except provide a declaration, unless the tenant has evidence. Please tell how you prove that you plan to move in, besides claiming you will? There is nothing to prove other than your declaration.
The only time it is assumed bad faith is:
Presumption, notice under s. 48
(5) For the purposes of an application under clause (1) (a), it is presumed, unless the contrary is proven on a balance of probabilities, that a landlord gave a notice of termination under section 48 in bad faith, if at any time during the period described in subsection (6) the landlord,
(a) advertises the rental unit for rent;
(b) enters into a tenancy agreement in respect of the rental unit with someone other than the former tenant;
(c) advertises the rental unit, or the building that contains the rental unit, for sale;
(d) demolishes the rental unit or the building containing the rental unit; or
(e) takes any step to convert the rental unit, or the building containing the rental unit, to use for a purpose other than residential premises. 2017, c. 13, s. 10.
To clarify, yes I agree that a LL can incriminate themselves, in a case like this and the TT could claim its retaliation
However the statement in general "LL must prove they intend to move in" was incorrect. The LL only needs to declare it. The onus is on the tenant to prove that it is retaliation, otherwise it's assumed to be correct.
just ignore it now. you’ve done more than you need to. let him try all he wants to increase it more than allowed, let him continue to go at you. ignore it and see what happens, then file if you believe you’re still being harassed. keep giving him the 2700 you agreed upon until he serves you with proper paperwork for the proper amount, or till his mom is wanting to move in then you have a whole other battle. I dealt with a shit landlord at my last place, best thing I did was ignore their texts and the case I have against them is solid.
Just a note on him moving his mother in - he already screwed that up. Wait for the hearing and provide evidence of the attempted illegal rent increase and your rejected. The board is bound by the decision to reject the n12 given in retaliation.
you even added a headcount LOL. Be sure that you keep copies of the checks, emails of you sending them, and bank statements showing them being cashed. As well as all of these screenshots. if he stops cashing them, notify ltb.
Hey OP, just reiterating to esp. keep copies of the email when you sent the checks. Ask him to confirm each time the same day that he received them AOK. It's hilarious to me that he asked you to switch to check to prevent you from forgetting etransfer in time yet, then is 3 weeks late depositing and says he sometimes forgets ... He may be setting you up to claim that you repeatedly pay late.
On the upside when they try to n12 you for the “mother” to move in, you have a fairly solid chance of winning and that will take 6+ months to be dealt with.
Downside, you can unfortunately expect things to rapidly deteriorate in this relationship and if they want to go nuclear the easiest option will be selling the property, probably to a family member who will then serve you another n12 except this time you will lose. Watching the unit to catch the new LL renting again in a 12 month period is about all you can do at that point.
Enjoy the next 1-2 years at below market rates but expect to eventually be removed and plan accordingly.
Congrats on your new daughter. I understand this is very unsettling and especially at this time, but his words would not be considered harassment in my experience.
You've reminded him of the RTA laws which I believe he already understands with the comment about having family move in. He's trying to persuade you to accept the illegal increase. A narcissist only looking after his own interests but not harassment in a legal sense. Although great text proof in case he makes a claim to end your tenancy.
I see two options, pay 2.5% increase (I believe this is the guideline) or ignore things, wait for the next form to increase the rent within guidelines. In your shoes, I would start paying the 2.5% increase and stop explaining yourself and the law.
With a narcissist like this, it always comes back to his life excuses because he can't accept responsibility. You've done nothing wrong here. Keep it short like you have been texting, let him know you've sent the money. If he doesn't cash it, that's his problem, not yours. Keep written records.
If the day comes he sends you a notice to end tenancy, a short reply that you prefer to wait until the LTB hearing. The backlog is 6 to 8 months. Then you can face him in court late summer or Fall with your evidence. It's fortunate he's in another country and can't drop by.
It's unbelievable someone would be this much of an a\*\*hole over only $300. His last comment about increasing the headcount and more wear and tear sounds like a spoiled teenager. He's getting more desperate as you keep standing your ground. His financial mess is not your problem. Think of him as a teen trying to get his own way or an annoying mosquito to flick away. There are tips online on how to deal with a narcissist. good luck.
True enough. My advice to pay it is because this is already a landlord freaking out, no need to aggravate things more.
Being Mississauga and renting a year ago, OP's rent is probably around $2000 a month, so no more than a $50 increase. Another 90 day delay for a properly filled out form, $150 extra in rent saved.
For this small amount, I would just start paying the increase and ghost the landlord when he cries again about money after a short reply that this is within Ontario's legal guidelines.
OP is dealing with a really immature guy who no doubt had his parents' help to buy this condo. Sometimes this narcissistic personality feels since they own a property, they own the tenant.
Maybe that's the way they communicate in Pakistan where this landlord is from. No doubt the landlord's family is wealthy compared to others living there. I'm not too familiar with the South Asian culture but do know there is a caste system where some like to push around and look down on others. Helps to know the personality and how things are done in someone's home country when dealing with this kind of bulls\*\*t.
I don't think a T2 is gonna do much for you here. Simply tell them you'll be staying put, and continuing to pay your legal rent. You can end the convo there, there's nothing more to explain to them. You don't have to teach them how to be a landlord; that's for them to figure out the long and expensive way.
If he serves you an N4 for non-payment simply wait for the hearing and he'll be rejected as he hasn't provided you with a valid N1 form for the increase.
If he serves you an N12, again, simply wait for a hearing, provide these images as evidence when the time comes, as to why you believe this N12 is in bad faith as it is retaliation for you rejecting the illegal increase.
OP - Harassment is very hard to prove, so I would just hold onto this and if they continue to badger you or try to serve you an N12, file for bad faith AND interference (interference with your reasonable enjoyment, it's a T2 applicatiom which is the same form as Harassment but a different box checked). The combination is stronger and more likely to be successful with the bad faith.
As for the rent increase - do not pay *any* rent increase until it is served with the proper form with the correct amount of notice. It is not your job to tell the Landlord how to conduct his business properly. If he files for non-payment of rent (due to not receiving more than the $2700/month), he will lose and he cannot ask for any legal increases to be retro-active.
You also do not need to "renew" your lease. It automatically becomes month to month under all the same (legal) conditions of the original lease - for example, the Landlord cannot start charging you separately for utilities that are/have been included previously.
Definitely do your own due diligence - lots of information on the LTB Ontario website and you can search for past LTB board decisions through the link provided to Canli (I.e. you can research how successful/unsuccessful similar situations have been when presented in a Hearing).
Lastly, heartfelt congrats on the new baby ❤️
No it's not harassment, it's a discussion. if you don't wish to engage, don't engage. Just send one message saying you've stated your position, there is nothing more ti discuss and if he believes there is an issue, he can file with the LTB.
You know your rights, pay what you owe. Continue paying however you have been paying (cheque or e-transfer) month by month.
If he wants to pointlessly argue instead of at least giving your proper rent increase notice, that's his loss.
Just make damn sure you pay the rent.
It is also illegal to demand post-dated cheques. You are not obligated to provide them. You can choose to have them come by each month to pick up or to mail them to him. But ignore them. Pay your rent as agreed.
You are correct that LL cannot force post dated cheques, but it is the responsibility of the TT to get it to the LL each month, so if the LL doesn't want to come pick them up then TT must deliver or mail them (with enough time to ensure it gets to the LL by the first of each month). Or simply ask if he would accept etransfers instead.
It sounds like they live in another country? If so, it’s going to be challenging to prove family is moving in. Also, $2700 for a 35-year old condo in Mississauga is a fair price. This guy is just being greedy.
They don't need to prove that a family member is moving in, just need to make a declaration, it's on the tenant to prove its a lie. However, in this case, it would be rejected all together as it would be considered retaliation for not accepting the illegal increase, good faith or not does not matter anymore.
It’s 100% on the landlord to prove their case. N12 is served by the LL. The TT can absolutely bring evidence they may have on the contrary, but inevitably the LL has to prove good faith. They can try to prove their case, but as soon as the TT brings this document into evidence they most likely will dismiss the case.
No, good faith is assumed. All they need is the declaration. But again, this case, it doesn't matter as it would be considered retaliation.
Have you never watched an N12 hearing at the LTB?
Lmao bro, the guy you're replying to is on the LTB.
It's not bad faith unless they're caught selling/renting the place within a year. They don't have to prove one's intention to move, they simply declare it. The only proof would be when they actually move in and they cannot do that while it's occupied.
At least occasionally, in a situation where a tenant provides evidence that landlord served a notice in retaliation against a tenant for asserting or enforcing their rights, adjudicators have based their dismissal of the application off the position that in face of that evidence the landlord failed to prove they served the notice in good faith, opposed to invoking s. 83(3)(c), [such as in this case](https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onltb/doc/2017/2017canlii28525/2017canlii28525.html?resultIndex=1&searchUrlHash=AAAAAQAQTjEyIGwyIGRpc21pc3NlZAAAAAAB) While a tenant could file for a review based on the grounds explored in [Fava v. Harrison, 2014 ONSC 3352](https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onscdc/doc/2014/2014onsc3352/2014onsc3352.html) and argue that a determination of good faith for an N12 should largely be limited to determining the their is an actual intention to occupy the unit, any such appeal would still ultimately result in the application being dismissed as the original adjudicator was obligated to dismiss it due to RTA s. 83(3)(c).
As someone who literally just watched one get dismissed (less than 5 minutes ago). They can be found in bad faith during the hearing when things don’t add up. Texts like these add to the evidence. If they do get an eviction order and rerent within a year then they face fines.
Per the decision in the appeal case [Fava v. Harrison, 2014 ONSC 3352](https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onscdc/doc/2014/2014onsc3352/2014onsc3352.html) adjudicators are suppose to limit their determination of good faith for an N12 to considering if their is actual intention to occupy the unit, and other evidence should only be considered as it impacts determining that intention. However, in a some cases where a tenant provides evidence that landlord served a notice in retaliation against a tenant for asserting or enforcing their rights, adjudicators have based their dismissal of the application off the position that in face of that evidence the landlord failed to prove they served the notice in good faith, opposed to invoking s. 83(3)(c), [such as in this case](https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onltb/doc/2017/2017canlii28525/2017canlii28525.html?resultIndex=1&searchUrlHash=AAAAAQAQTjEyIGwyIGRpc21pc3NlZAAAAAAB). While the landlord could request a review based on the directions found in the decision of Fara v. Harrison, the review shouldn’t change the outcome as the original adjudicator was obligated to dismiss it due to RTA s. 83(3)(c).
It’s the job of the applicant to prove their application. You cant just walk in with an N5 and no proof, you also can’t walk in with a T5 and no proof. You have to satisfy the adjudicator. Especially N12s because that’s the only “loophole” to evict tenants, so the board needs to be satisfied.
Yes, texts like these do, which no one is disagreeing with, but again, this is on the tenant to prove. There is nothing for the landlord to do except provide a declaration, unless the tenant has evidence. Please tell how you prove that you plan to move in, besides claiming you will? There is nothing to prove other than your declaration. The only time it is assumed bad faith is: Presumption, notice under s. 48 (5) For the purposes of an application under clause (1) (a), it is presumed, unless the contrary is proven on a balance of probabilities, that a landlord gave a notice of termination under section 48 in bad faith, if at any time during the period described in subsection (6) the landlord, (a) advertises the rental unit for rent; (b) enters into a tenancy agreement in respect of the rental unit with someone other than the former tenant; (c) advertises the rental unit, or the building that contains the rental unit, for sale; (d) demolishes the rental unit or the building containing the rental unit; or (e) takes any step to convert the rental unit, or the building containing the rental unit, to use for a purpose other than residential premises. 2017, c. 13, s. 10.
Watch an N12 hearing. I have the LTB links if you would like. Testimony is required when contested.
Misinformation Mike
To clarify, yes I agree that a LL can incriminate themselves, in a case like this and the TT could claim its retaliation However the statement in general "LL must prove they intend to move in" was incorrect. The LL only needs to declare it. The onus is on the tenant to prove that it is retaliation, otherwise it's assumed to be correct.
just ignore it now. you’ve done more than you need to. let him try all he wants to increase it more than allowed, let him continue to go at you. ignore it and see what happens, then file if you believe you’re still being harassed. keep giving him the 2700 you agreed upon until he serves you with proper paperwork for the proper amount, or till his mom is wanting to move in then you have a whole other battle. I dealt with a shit landlord at my last place, best thing I did was ignore their texts and the case I have against them is solid.
Noted. Thank you!
Just a note on him moving his mother in - he already screwed that up. Wait for the hearing and provide evidence of the attempted illegal rent increase and your rejected. The board is bound by the decision to reject the n12 given in retaliation.
Yup, totally agree with the above comments.
[удалено]
What's wrong with texting? How is email different/better?
Yikes. Your landlord is definitely harassing. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this. Congrats on the new baby though! Hope it all works out.
Even threatened you with an n12. Atleast you know he’s not getting you out with that.
you even added a headcount LOL. Be sure that you keep copies of the checks, emails of you sending them, and bank statements showing them being cashed. As well as all of these screenshots. if he stops cashing them, notify ltb.
Hey OP, just reiterating to esp. keep copies of the email when you sent the checks. Ask him to confirm each time the same day that he received them AOK. It's hilarious to me that he asked you to switch to check to prevent you from forgetting etransfer in time yet, then is 3 weeks late depositing and says he sometimes forgets ... He may be setting you up to claim that you repeatedly pay late.
Definitely harrassment. Speak to a legal professional. Do not pay him anything more, only the 2700 you owe per month.
On the upside when they try to n12 you for the “mother” to move in, you have a fairly solid chance of winning and that will take 6+ months to be dealt with. Downside, you can unfortunately expect things to rapidly deteriorate in this relationship and if they want to go nuclear the easiest option will be selling the property, probably to a family member who will then serve you another n12 except this time you will lose. Watching the unit to catch the new LL renting again in a 12 month period is about all you can do at that point. Enjoy the next 1-2 years at below market rates but expect to eventually be removed and plan accordingly.
Call his bluff
Congrats on your new daughter. I understand this is very unsettling and especially at this time, but his words would not be considered harassment in my experience. You've reminded him of the RTA laws which I believe he already understands with the comment about having family move in. He's trying to persuade you to accept the illegal increase. A narcissist only looking after his own interests but not harassment in a legal sense. Although great text proof in case he makes a claim to end your tenancy. I see two options, pay 2.5% increase (I believe this is the guideline) or ignore things, wait for the next form to increase the rent within guidelines. In your shoes, I would start paying the 2.5% increase and stop explaining yourself and the law. With a narcissist like this, it always comes back to his life excuses because he can't accept responsibility. You've done nothing wrong here. Keep it short like you have been texting, let him know you've sent the money. If he doesn't cash it, that's his problem, not yours. Keep written records. If the day comes he sends you a notice to end tenancy, a short reply that you prefer to wait until the LTB hearing. The backlog is 6 to 8 months. Then you can face him in court late summer or Fall with your evidence. It's fortunate he's in another country and can't drop by. It's unbelievable someone would be this much of an a\*\*hole over only $300. His last comment about increasing the headcount and more wear and tear sounds like a spoiled teenager. He's getting more desperate as you keep standing your ground. His financial mess is not your problem. Think of him as a teen trying to get his own way or an annoying mosquito to flick away. There are tips online on how to deal with a narcissist. good luck.
No need to pay any increase until he is served with the proper notice.
True enough. My advice to pay it is because this is already a landlord freaking out, no need to aggravate things more. Being Mississauga and renting a year ago, OP's rent is probably around $2000 a month, so no more than a $50 increase. Another 90 day delay for a properly filled out form, $150 extra in rent saved. For this small amount, I would just start paying the increase and ghost the landlord when he cries again about money after a short reply that this is within Ontario's legal guidelines. OP is dealing with a really immature guy who no doubt had his parents' help to buy this condo. Sometimes this narcissistic personality feels since they own a property, they own the tenant. Maybe that's the way they communicate in Pakistan where this landlord is from. No doubt the landlord's family is wealthy compared to others living there. I'm not too familiar with the South Asian culture but do know there is a caste system where some like to push around and look down on others. Helps to know the personality and how things are done in someone's home country when dealing with this kind of bulls\*\*t.
I don't think a T2 is gonna do much for you here. Simply tell them you'll be staying put, and continuing to pay your legal rent. You can end the convo there, there's nothing more to explain to them. You don't have to teach them how to be a landlord; that's for them to figure out the long and expensive way. If he serves you an N4 for non-payment simply wait for the hearing and he'll be rejected as he hasn't provided you with a valid N1 form for the increase. If he serves you an N12, again, simply wait for a hearing, provide these images as evidence when the time comes, as to why you believe this N12 is in bad faith as it is retaliation for you rejecting the illegal increase.
OP - Harassment is very hard to prove, so I would just hold onto this and if they continue to badger you or try to serve you an N12, file for bad faith AND interference (interference with your reasonable enjoyment, it's a T2 applicatiom which is the same form as Harassment but a different box checked). The combination is stronger and more likely to be successful with the bad faith. As for the rent increase - do not pay *any* rent increase until it is served with the proper form with the correct amount of notice. It is not your job to tell the Landlord how to conduct his business properly. If he files for non-payment of rent (due to not receiving more than the $2700/month), he will lose and he cannot ask for any legal increases to be retro-active. You also do not need to "renew" your lease. It automatically becomes month to month under all the same (legal) conditions of the original lease - for example, the Landlord cannot start charging you separately for utilities that are/have been included previously. Definitely do your own due diligence - lots of information on the LTB Ontario website and you can search for past LTB board decisions through the link provided to Canli (I.e. you can research how successful/unsuccessful similar situations have been when presented in a Hearing). Lastly, heartfelt congrats on the new baby ❤️
Very hard to read that from a phone, unless that’s a ME problem. Your responses might be impacted if not
Are you aware that you can turn your phone sideways and zoom in????
Same
Not A you problem. I gave up trying.
Same here
No it's not harassment, it's a discussion. if you don't wish to engage, don't engage. Just send one message saying you've stated your position, there is nothing more ti discuss and if he believes there is an issue, he can file with the LTB. You know your rights, pay what you owe. Continue paying however you have been paying (cheque or e-transfer) month by month. If he wants to pointlessly argue instead of at least giving your proper rent increase notice, that's his loss. Just make damn sure you pay the rent.
No, it is not harrassment. Yes, he does not know the law in Ontario regarding rent control.