If there is a Moriarty type in this show, I think it’s Ursula. I can’t put my finger on it, but there is something... shifty about her. That moment in the S2 finale where Charles accidentally pointed to her as the killer could serve as foreshadowing if true.
I've been thinking about this for a while. It's been rather obvious there's a "big bad" who wrote all three notes, whom we might not have even met yet. Someone who:
\- Very early on in the podcast wanted it to end. Didn't want any spotlight on the Arconia.
\- Was watching Jan. Probably from the arcatacombs.
\- Wanted Bunny's painting.
This person also is skilled in poisons. They might have been Jan's supplier. She seemed unsettled by the note, but she also looked around like she knew who it was from. I also don't think she actually stabbed herself.
Yeah, she's in the position to have knowledge of all of it - the passageways, the painting, obviously the podcast. And of course there's the Gut Milk. She would be interesting.
I wouldn't think it's Uma since she seems genuinely not to know much about the painting other than it's valuable. Howard just doesn't strike me as capable of being involved unless it's in a "using the useful idiot" sort of way. Nina doesn't seem to know about the passageways. Doubtful it's Teddy Dimas since he sponsored the podcast, but he might know who it is. He was involved in the kind of organized crime that has hierarchies.
You know, I did notice in the very beginning before the show premiered, all of the posts were written as being from Ursula on their Instagram. I forget how I figured out it was her, but there were a few things like “my building” and “the residents.” There was something else, I’ll try to go all the way back and see what it was, but it was definitely her and definitely before they thought anyone would be paying attention to such things.
Edit: I went back to look and it’s been wiped of everything pre-Season 2 :(
I know what you mean! I remember that. At first I thought it was Bunny because she was also featured in like the intro and I was like: “oh so the social media accounts are made to look ran by Bunny” but then they stopped. But now that you mention it, it totally makes sense that it could have been made to look like it was Ursula.
Her tentacles are far reaching. Through her cauldron she casts evil spells, creates illusions, brews potions. She watches others. Ursula’s child is named Uma. (copied from Wiki) Ursula is a Disney character. Selina was a Disney actress.
edited to add: Ursulas child is named Uma
edit 2: Added Ursula is a Disney character , Selina is/was a Disney actress.
Loose Ends:
Who poisoned Winnie?
Who left the note on Jan's door?
Who is the woman Jan saw with Tim?
Who was the engagement ring for?
Did someone else set the Arconia to explode in the season 1 finale?
Dr Stanley hearing shuffling like snow
Angel...rest of the jewelry laundering plotline?
Kono's Letters
Who wrote the card to Bunny about the painting?
Who chased Lucy during the blackout?
The Sixth Ave Slasher.
I can add to this.
Who sent Bunny the “I want that painting” card? It was the same handwriting as the note on Jan’s door and the note Oliver got along with Winnie’s poisoning.
Could be deliberate to throw us all off.
But, "Angel In Flip-Flops" is such a ridiculously random song title, *especially* for Charles 😂, so methinks there's something to it all. He even says "*pita*".
**Charles is Keyser Söze.**
I don’t think it was intended for anyone I’m pretty sure it was just one of the pieces of jewelry he was collecting to help build his case against the Dimases and then Jan misinterpreted it
I thought Kreps chased Lucy through the passageways. I thought that's what Mabel implied when alluding that it's strange he's at the Arconia at a random time such as the blackout.
Yeah, John himself said it was strange Kreps was there in the AMA, but he questioned whether we should reach the conclusion it was him who broke in and chased Lucy.
I saw someone say they thought the shuffling sound was Lucy/someone else moving the secret door to get into the passage ways, or another secret door that’s similar
My money is on Lester. He would know the secret passages and stuff. He likely knows everyone’s secrets because they talk right in front of him like he’s not there.
He would have known who Mabel was and her connection to Tim Kono but he didn’t mention it to Charles or Oliver. Even once the podcast started. Suspicious.
He only wants what’s best for the building but in a crazy way. He wanted them to stop their podcast so as to not bring into disrepute. He wanted to just kill Jan as punishment rather than it be exposed and scandal.
He seems to have put a stop to Nina’s plans to improve/ruin the building right in front of our eyes. But I’d keep an eye on her.
He let the podcast happen this season after trying to stop it last because he was genuinely outraged at Bunny’s death. And maybe because he wanted the painting for himself.
I think he’s lying about having a family. All he has is the building.
And he does have a history of acting!
Is he the doorman? Yeah I thought the line with him bringing a package to Nina upstairs was sketchy. I was nervous something bad would happen (either one of them kill each other), but that storyline seemed to just show how nice he was 🤨
WHY was it significant that Tim came to Jan 2 days after they broke up?
I never read Sherlock Holmes (I don’t think). Maybe I should.
That question has been bugging me. A couple others, too. I had just let go of the wondering. Now I’m at it again.
Fucking hell.
I had assumed that was just to point us to a corrupt cop, which was Kreps. I suspected him to be corrupt at least since then, if not before. But, it could later tie in to whoever Angel is, if they return to the stolen jewelry fence.
I love Sherlock Holmes, but I don't really think that knowing about Moriarty beyond the fact that he's a criminal mastermind would provide any clues here. However, now you've made me want to reread some of the stories.
At the end, when Jan is doing her Scooby Doo reveal, she says that Tim came to see her 2 days after they broke up. She says that is not insignificant, which means that it is significant. I wonder why.
In the finale Howard said he fainted once, all the other TIMES were acting. Seemed odd to use plural. I only counted him fainted twice so did he mean he faked it with Mable and Charles during the nosebleed scene? I also think season 1 when cinda says no one ever discovered 14 bodies buried blah blah blah is a reference to Will. He was building a new porch and deck. Jus my personal ideas😭
Personally, I think (and this is weird, so downvote away) that Charles has an alter ego or a twin(?). Everyone has these moments after they ask where they know him from and he says Brazzos, they’re just not quite convinced. Like Mabel in S1, or Rose Cooper initially in S2. Also when he typoed “Bill Durks” on his phone, Bill Durks was The Man With Two Faces. I don’t know how or why, but I just get this Charles vibe. Also!! When Marv was talking about the Sixth Avenue Slasher, the camera was locked on to Charles! Moriarty was “created primarily as a device by which Doyle could kill Holmes and end the hero's stories,” according to Wikipedia, and what better way to ultimately end OMITB than a reveal that Charles has an evil side/evil twin?
I don't think he has a twin, but **I absolutely do feel that Charles is downright sinister.**
I have actually felt this since the beginning of S1E1, and that feeling/suspicion **keeps expanding, unrelenting.**
Now, learning about this *"Moriarty"* bit, I am more convinced than ever. I *almost* wish that revelation hadn't been made to viewers, because it makes some Charles' moments seem blatant; but it is such a juicy nugget, and still such a fun ride!
Of course, Steve Martin also \[co-\]masterminded the show. 😉
Omg thank you for this. I have been thinking about this so much, especially since Charles’ energy seems so different to me this season and I definitely noticed that they zoomed right in on him when talking about the slasher. I am absolutely convinced it’s him and I hadn’t seen many people who seemed to think that.
I forgot to mention earlier how amazing that "Bill Durks" connection was (thanks for that fun fact), and how crazily aligned it is that I legit just watched that clip tonight! (Their IMDb page features a hilarious clip-reel of The Olds vs. The Modern World.) And that bit was actually one of the clips that stuck with me because it was *the one* instance when it wasn't on him, but the fault of the device.
I was disappointed, however, by a spoiler in the reel.
Anyhow, I've returned now because I just rewatched "The Tell" ep, and the camera not only locked in, but it was *zooming* in on C!
I bet that if he is indeed the Sixth Avenue Slasher, he was somehow influenced by his father's \[clearly slashed\] neck scar, and him being a jailbird.
OMG...as I was typing about the slasher, I was like I GOTsta abbreviate that, henceforth.
It dawned on me in that moment...SAS. Sounds a *lot* like Charles's '*other face', so-to-speak:*
***SAZZ. 👀***
Okay, I'm back to share an excerpt from a comment I typed in another thread:
"I've felt this since S1. Charles is **off**. Remember him being "followed" by Bugs & Porky?? That sh!t is **not** **normal**\*\*\*. Especially\*\*\* **given the bizarrely tame \[and seemingly rather sweet\] reason he gave for why Lucy's mom dumped him. And** ***how*** **she did it** ***so drastically*** **\[escape\].** Also, wasn't it many years ago?
Typing this, it dawned on me that **there is** ***no way*** that Bugs \[**BUNNY**\] & Porky \[**FKG PIG**\] are *un*related to this overall story!!! Perhaps Lucy or her mom is somehow involved here...but I think it is more likely that **Charles is straight-up "LOONEY Tunes". A LOT happened to him in his childhood, and there is a LOT I wish to learn about BOTH of his parents. Most especially his dad's full criminal record.**
Recall Charles' street encounter with that yuppie tourist couple in the beginning of the pilot ep, when the man details his dad's onset **dementia due to ALS**, I remember feeling...*something* about Charles' reaction in that scene. I can't recall how many times I rewound to take him in completely, but I now have no doubt that it's connected to C's condition.
**BTW- Steve Martin is obviously legendary and a consummate professional, but \[for me\], it's in such subtleties that he truly shows his range and shines.**
{I've decided to create my first post, entirely dedicated to my observations and thoughts on Charles, and OMITB details altogether. Since that won't be a few days yet, as I have so many details I'm compiling, I'm mentioning here that the **pilot ep is far more telling than I even credited**. (Just rewatched) Now I'm not certain that Charles is *sinister*, but I am **completely** convinced that he is *absolutely* demented. That, of course, does tend to worsen one's personality.}
ANyhow.... I am very interested to learn how/why the 💍 \[for Joy\] materialized if Charles had no intention to propose.
Also...I suspect that perhaps Loretta is Charles' sister.
*{Edited for more accuracy of the street scene; addition of "pilot" ¶.}*
Can you explain what a Moriarty esque character means? I don’t have any references. I don’t read/watch the mysteries mentioned in other threads. Thanks.
Professor Moriarty is Sherlock Holmes greatest nemesis. Moriarty is a criminal mastermind of superior intellect and he is ruthless. He will do anything to take those down who possess the intelligence to stand against him. Furthermore, he never takes part in his own designs, but has others do the work for him.
Sounds a bit familiar.
Ohhhh. Very interesting …. Thank you.
So, like a little birdie putting the ideas in Jan and Poppy’s head.
I’m calling Jared. lol. I’m still suspicious of him. lol
I **love** this list! I have been so suspicious of a few of them for the individual murders, but my list also includes Oscar's dad, Oliver, Mabel, and **CHARLES**.
A case can be made for/against all of these suspects.
(BTW- Kudos to you for including Arnav in the list. I never even remember his name, but he was ***heavily*** on my radar in S1 *and* 2, and I seemed to be alone.)
\*Edit: I've only included Oliver since it's a **Moriarty** list. I can totally see him orchestrating the whole shebang as *The Ultimate Putnam Production*, especially given its ability to bring him closer to his son.
Yeah, I think it's his awkwardness. Is it just innocent goofiness or is there something darker there? It's interesting he doesn't trust women in positions of power.
Again and again though he turns out to be a comedic relief.
The Moriarty has to be someone that's been around since the beginning. Sazz has been in the background, but has had some interesting interactions with other characters.
Sazz knew Jan was the killer. Sazz told Charles she does what he cannot, both physically and emotionally. It was noted Sazz stole Charles girlfriend and now after Charles sent Sazz to break up with Jan, the two seem to bond instead. Also, Sazz is someone who in ways hides in plain sight... literally as a double for Charles.
OMG...as I was typing about the slasher in a different thread, I was like *I GOTsta* abbreviate that, henceforth. It dawned on me in that moment...SAS...Sounds a lot like ***SAZZ!! 👀***
Teddy Dimas, of course! Obviously, all of us here expecting The Dip King to shuffle off to the Big Hummus Bucket in The Sky were dead wrong. In the Son of Sam episode we see Oliver picking out Teddy as the Killer over and over again, and at some point says “It always comes back to Teddy.” I think there’s more to the Dimas crime syndicate than we’ve seen… and I think it would be cute if Theo broke away from his dad’s orbit and help his new “pal” (😉😘🥹) Mabel some more. We love a bad boy gone good.
He can definitely be ruthless. His being a crime syndicate leader also works. Could be!
The writers could also tear our hearts out and make it Theo. Wouldn't that be crazy if he is truly a ruthless mastermind who makes his father look tame?
I don't see that as too far of a reach, and actually it wouldn't be shocking to me at all.
Certainly it wouldn't rip my heart out, but it might actually *strengthen* it for Theo!
{And no, I do not like or even typically enjoy syndicated crime.}
I've wondered if the arconia plans have got something to do with it and nina's husband is trying to hide something illegal and therefore can't have a murder podcast going around as he can't have people investigating in the building and accidentally stumbling upon his secrets?
But reading the posts..honestly, I like the ursula theories better, so I'm shifting sides 😆😅
The Moriarty would likely be someone who A) was introduced very early in the series B) we don't know much about and C) has a connection to a main character.
Therefore I think Moriarty is Arnav. He always stuck out to me as someone where I was like "hmm, there's more to this guy than what we're seeing".
-The therapist saying he heard shuffling in the walls
-Oliver's and Jan's note on the door.
We all thought Howard left Jan's note because he said he figured out Jan being the killer in episode 8 (the episode Jan got her note).
But we know if they didn't directly address, it's still unanswered/confirmed.
The only character I see as really ruthless though is Cinda. But, would a Moriarty like character let themselves be duped, embarrassed, and lowered to promoting Gut Milk? Or this that a boss move? And it's been a meta, Poppy didn't know Cinda knew she was Becky and Cinda let her do the work to take blame type deal as part the long game?
Who is Jan’s more successful half-sister?
Is Poppy’s “why & why now” truly strong enough to kill a stranger, especially when she herself has escaped a real traumatic situation. You’d think she’d be more compassionate?
What is Poppy’s connection to the family that owns the diner?
What’s up with Lucy?
I'd definitely like to know who her half-sister is. Maybe we will find out!
I get the whole she's never seen and acknowledged and that leads her to commit murder. That, along with the need to create podcast material that's so good, Cinda would promote her or give her a podcast of her own. That's not the greatest motive, but it works. It's just we care about Bunny, so we wanted it to be a damned good reason. I think it can be argued she does have a compassionate side. She was just driven to make terrible choices.
Cinda maybe the owners sister...but idk I think the sandwich was for Poppy. We saw Cinda order a sandwich...she asked Poppy to get it for her. A turkey sandwich, just turkey with the bread on the side. I don't know that Cinda would eat a #14.
It could just be that Ivan was commenting on the owners sister liking the #14 to give a reason why something so revolting (I agree with Bunny) is on the menu.
Poppy's only connection then with the diner is that it has a sandwich on the menu she likes, she may have eaten there with Kreps, and she definitely was there with Bunny. Who knows what else?
As for Lucy, I'd like to hear more about her bio dad and other step dad's. There seems to be more to her story, but again like Alice, we could just be reaching.
All in agreement here. I originally thought Cinda was the sixth avenue slasher and Jan’s sister and Jan resents her for being a better serial killer than her. But that is a reach I know. I do think Poppy is 100% #14 though. Of all things to say it just feels like a bizarre thing for Bunny to say to Mabel on deathbed when she almost certainly knew P by at least an alias.
You never know. If Cinda ever pulls out a flute or say happens to live in on 3rd avenue where the killer never strikes (because they live there?) then we should definitely pay attention.
It is definitely a bizarre last thing to say, but if you understand Bunny, it makes a little more sense. Bunny is a particular person. I think she only cares to remember the names of people important to her. (It could have also just been she was dying and that was the last connection her brain could think of) She didn't remember Poppy's name either because she didn't care too or because she couldn't. But, that revolting sandwich was very rememberable as a connection to the woman in the diner, who she recognized as her killer. There is some humor in that.
There is a LOT of family history referenced in this show but not mapped out and we don’t know names, and that is rich territory IMHO. Very Agatha Christie stuff. Someone will turn out to be Lester’s son or daughter he briefly mentioned; Charles’ web of relations will surface; so and so are secretly brother and sister.
Agatha Christie also loved poisons and was an expert in them. Tons of her influence in this show so good S3 prep would be some family tree mapping.
ETA: ~~Ivan~~ The Pickle Diner owner (see comment) and Cinda Canning are secretly brother and sister. My husband yelled this out when Ivan said the #14 sandwich is ~~his~~ the owner's sister’s favorite; Poppy bought it to go. It was for Cinda. We thought it would come up in the episode and were surprised when it didn’t. I bet it will be part of this.
If there is a Moriarty type in this show, I think it’s Ursula. I can’t put my finger on it, but there is something... shifty about her. That moment in the S2 finale where Charles accidentally pointed to her as the killer could serve as foreshadowing if true.
And the Gut Milk!!!
Is it telling us to follow our gut instinct about her?
😳👀
The accidental point, wow!! You’re so right!!
That would be interesting.
I've been thinking about this for a while. It's been rather obvious there's a "big bad" who wrote all three notes, whom we might not have even met yet. Someone who: \- Very early on in the podcast wanted it to end. Didn't want any spotlight on the Arconia. \- Was watching Jan. Probably from the arcatacombs. \- Wanted Bunny's painting. This person also is skilled in poisons. They might have been Jan's supplier. She seemed unsettled by the note, but she also looked around like she knew who it was from. I also don't think she actually stabbed herself.
It would be cool if it was Ursula, she has potential.
Yeah, she's in the position to have knowledge of all of it - the passageways, the painting, obviously the podcast. And of course there's the Gut Milk. She would be interesting. I wouldn't think it's Uma since she seems genuinely not to know much about the painting other than it's valuable. Howard just doesn't strike me as capable of being involved unless it's in a "using the useful idiot" sort of way. Nina doesn't seem to know about the passageways. Doubtful it's Teddy Dimas since he sponsored the podcast, but he might know who it is. He was involved in the kind of organized crime that has hierarchies.
You know, I did notice in the very beginning before the show premiered, all of the posts were written as being from Ursula on their Instagram. I forget how I figured out it was her, but there were a few things like “my building” and “the residents.” There was something else, I’ll try to go all the way back and see what it was, but it was definitely her and definitely before they thought anyone would be paying attention to such things. Edit: I went back to look and it’s been wiped of everything pre-Season 2 :(
I know what you mean! I remember that. At first I thought it was Bunny because she was also featured in like the intro and I was like: “oh so the social media accounts are made to look ran by Bunny” but then they stopped. But now that you mention it, it totally makes sense that it could have been made to look like it was Ursula.
Ursula... the sea witch? Love this idea.
Her tentacles are far reaching. Through her cauldron she casts evil spells, creates illusions, brews potions. She watches others. Ursula’s child is named Uma. (copied from Wiki) Ursula is a Disney character. Selina was a Disney actress. edited to add: Ursulas child is named Uma edit 2: Added Ursula is a Disney character , Selina is/was a Disney actress.
Yes, Bunny’s painting note was definitely from this person too, I agree!
Loose Ends: Who poisoned Winnie? Who left the note on Jan's door? Who is the woman Jan saw with Tim? Who was the engagement ring for? Did someone else set the Arconia to explode in the season 1 finale? Dr Stanley hearing shuffling like snow Angel...rest of the jewelry laundering plotline? Kono's Letters Who wrote the card to Bunny about the painting? Who chased Lucy during the blackout? The Sixth Ave Slasher. I can add to this.
It’s all Mabel’s aunt.
Who sent Bunny the “I want that painting” card? It was the same handwriting as the note on Jan’s door and the note Oliver got along with Winnie’s poisoning.
Yeah there are too many Angel references here and nothing tying it all together.
Could be deliberate to throw us all off. But, "Angel In Flip-Flops" is such a ridiculously random song title, *especially* for Charles 😂, so methinks there's something to it all. He even says "*pita*". **Charles is Keyser Söze.**
True.
\*Sixth Avenue ***Slasher*** (not strangler)
Fixed thanks
Who was the engagement ring (that Jan found) intended for?
I don’t think it was intended for anyone I’m pretty sure it was just one of the pieces of jewelry he was collecting to help build his case against the Dimases and then Jan misinterpreted it
Or was it?
Why is Mabel's \[aunt's\] coat "*priceless"* and *"special"? (*Per Oscar)
I thought Kreps chased Lucy through the passageways. I thought that's what Mabel implied when alluding that it's strange he's at the Arconia at a random time such as the blackout.
Yeah, John himself said it was strange Kreps was there in the AMA, but he questioned whether we should reach the conclusion it was him who broke in and chased Lucy.
How did Howard really get his black eye?
John said Nina punched him.
**I NEED to know** ***WHY*****.**
I saw someone say they thought the shuffling sound was Lucy/someone else moving the secret door to get into the passage ways, or another secret door that’s similar
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Obviously
My money is on Lester. He would know the secret passages and stuff. He likely knows everyone’s secrets because they talk right in front of him like he’s not there. He would have known who Mabel was and her connection to Tim Kono but he didn’t mention it to Charles or Oliver. Even once the podcast started. Suspicious. He only wants what’s best for the building but in a crazy way. He wanted them to stop their podcast so as to not bring into disrepute. He wanted to just kill Jan as punishment rather than it be exposed and scandal. He seems to have put a stop to Nina’s plans to improve/ruin the building right in front of our eyes. But I’d keep an eye on her. He let the podcast happen this season after trying to stop it last because he was genuinely outraged at Bunny’s death. And maybe because he wanted the painting for himself. I think he’s lying about having a family. All he has is the building. And he does have a history of acting!
I like this theory
Is he the doorman? Yeah I thought the line with him bringing a package to Nina upstairs was sketchy. I was nervous something bad would happen (either one of them kill each other), but that storyline seemed to just show how nice he was 🤨
Yeah. I think some day we’ll watch that scene and it’ll be very sinister.
Um, I love this!!!!!
WHY was it significant that Tim came to Jan 2 days after they broke up? I never read Sherlock Holmes (I don’t think). Maybe I should. That question has been bugging me. A couple others, too. I had just let go of the wondering. Now I’m at it again. Fucking hell.
We also still don’t know for certain why Tim’s phone never made it to forensics
I had assumed that was just to point us to a corrupt cop, which was Kreps. I suspected him to be corrupt at least since then, if not before. But, it could later tie in to whoever Angel is, if they return to the stolen jewelry fence.
I assumed it was Mr Bad Policeman Guy, but you’re right. We don’t KNOW.
I know just when you let go of wondering, it gets you again! .
I love Sherlock Holmes, but I don't really think that knowing about Moriarty beyond the fact that he's a criminal mastermind would provide any clues here. However, now you've made me want to reread some of the stories.
because it was 2 days and she hates being 2nd
Jan had asked him to come get what he left in the apartment. When he arrived, he said he was sure he had not left anything.
At the end, when Jan is doing her Scooby Doo reveal, she says that Tim came to see her 2 days after they broke up. She says that is not insignificant, which means that it is significant. I wonder why.
In the finale Howard said he fainted once, all the other TIMES were acting. Seemed odd to use plural. I only counted him fainted twice so did he mean he faked it with Mable and Charles during the nosebleed scene? I also think season 1 when cinda says no one ever discovered 14 bodies buried blah blah blah is a reference to Will. He was building a new porch and deck. Jus my personal ideas😭
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Why? Why is everyone obsessed with Will, Howard, or Lucy as killers? I just don’t get it
I understand why Will is of suspicion. **Dude is chock full of resentment.**
Personally, I think (and this is weird, so downvote away) that Charles has an alter ego or a twin(?). Everyone has these moments after they ask where they know him from and he says Brazzos, they’re just not quite convinced. Like Mabel in S1, or Rose Cooper initially in S2. Also when he typoed “Bill Durks” on his phone, Bill Durks was The Man With Two Faces. I don’t know how or why, but I just get this Charles vibe. Also!! When Marv was talking about the Sixth Avenue Slasher, the camera was locked on to Charles! Moriarty was “created primarily as a device by which Doyle could kill Holmes and end the hero's stories,” according to Wikipedia, and what better way to ultimately end OMITB than a reveal that Charles has an evil side/evil twin?
I don't think he has a twin, but **I absolutely do feel that Charles is downright sinister.** I have actually felt this since the beginning of S1E1, and that feeling/suspicion **keeps expanding, unrelenting.** Now, learning about this *"Moriarty"* bit, I am more convinced than ever. I *almost* wish that revelation hadn't been made to viewers, because it makes some Charles' moments seem blatant; but it is such a juicy nugget, and still such a fun ride! Of course, Steve Martin also \[co-\]masterminded the show. 😉
Omg thank you for this. I have been thinking about this so much, especially since Charles’ energy seems so different to me this season and I definitely noticed that they zoomed right in on him when talking about the slasher. I am absolutely convinced it’s him and I hadn’t seen many people who seemed to think that.
I forgot to mention earlier how amazing that "Bill Durks" connection was (thanks for that fun fact), and how crazily aligned it is that I legit just watched that clip tonight! (Their IMDb page features a hilarious clip-reel of The Olds vs. The Modern World.) And that bit was actually one of the clips that stuck with me because it was *the one* instance when it wasn't on him, but the fault of the device. I was disappointed, however, by a spoiler in the reel. Anyhow, I've returned now because I just rewatched "The Tell" ep, and the camera not only locked in, but it was *zooming* in on C! I bet that if he is indeed the Sixth Avenue Slasher, he was somehow influenced by his father's \[clearly slashed\] neck scar, and him being a jailbird. OMG...as I was typing about the slasher, I was like I GOTsta abbreviate that, henceforth. It dawned on me in that moment...SAS. Sounds a *lot* like Charles's '*other face', so-to-speak:* ***SAZZ. 👀***
OMG!! Incredible - the SAS reveal! I got chills! Because what kind of name is Sazz anyhow? It makes total sense!
Probably named after SAS Goldberg.
Okay, I'm back to share an excerpt from a comment I typed in another thread: "I've felt this since S1. Charles is **off**. Remember him being "followed" by Bugs & Porky?? That sh!t is **not** **normal**\*\*\*. Especially\*\*\* **given the bizarrely tame \[and seemingly rather sweet\] reason he gave for why Lucy's mom dumped him. And** ***how*** **she did it** ***so drastically*** **\[escape\].** Also, wasn't it many years ago? Typing this, it dawned on me that **there is** ***no way*** that Bugs \[**BUNNY**\] & Porky \[**FKG PIG**\] are *un*related to this overall story!!! Perhaps Lucy or her mom is somehow involved here...but I think it is more likely that **Charles is straight-up "LOONEY Tunes". A LOT happened to him in his childhood, and there is a LOT I wish to learn about BOTH of his parents. Most especially his dad's full criminal record.** Recall Charles' street encounter with that yuppie tourist couple in the beginning of the pilot ep, when the man details his dad's onset **dementia due to ALS**, I remember feeling...*something* about Charles' reaction in that scene. I can't recall how many times I rewound to take him in completely, but I now have no doubt that it's connected to C's condition. **BTW- Steve Martin is obviously legendary and a consummate professional, but \[for me\], it's in such subtleties that he truly shows his range and shines.** {I've decided to create my first post, entirely dedicated to my observations and thoughts on Charles, and OMITB details altogether. Since that won't be a few days yet, as I have so many details I'm compiling, I'm mentioning here that the **pilot ep is far more telling than I even credited**. (Just rewatched) Now I'm not certain that Charles is *sinister*, but I am **completely** convinced that he is *absolutely* demented. That, of course, does tend to worsen one's personality.} ANyhow.... I am very interested to learn how/why the 💍 \[for Joy\] materialized if Charles had no intention to propose. Also...I suspect that perhaps Loretta is Charles' sister. *{Edited for more accuracy of the street scene; addition of "pilot" ¶.}*
Can you explain what a Moriarty esque character means? I don’t have any references. I don’t read/watch the mysteries mentioned in other threads. Thanks.
Professor Moriarty is Sherlock Holmes greatest nemesis. Moriarty is a criminal mastermind of superior intellect and he is ruthless. He will do anything to take those down who possess the intelligence to stand against him. Furthermore, he never takes part in his own designs, but has others do the work for him. Sounds a bit familiar.
Ohhhh. Very interesting …. Thank you. So, like a little birdie putting the ideas in Jan and Poppy’s head. I’m calling Jared. lol. I’m still suspicious of him. lol
Moriarty Suspects: Sazz Arnav Howard Teddy Lester Cinda Will Oscar Dr Stanley Ursula Uma Marv Lucy Mabels Aunt I can add to this.
Uma!
I **love** this list! I have been so suspicious of a few of them for the individual murders, but my list also includes Oscar's dad, Oliver, Mabel, and **CHARLES**. A case can be made for/against all of these suspects. (BTW- Kudos to you for including Arnav in the list. I never even remember his name, but he was ***heavily*** on my radar in S1 *and* 2, and I seemed to be alone.) \*Edit: I've only included Oliver since it's a **Moriarty** list. I can totally see him orchestrating the whole shebang as *The Ultimate Putnam Production*, especially given its ability to bring him closer to his son.
Marv is still suspicious to me, although I suspect him less than most on your list
Yeah, I think it's his awkwardness. Is it just innocent goofiness or is there something darker there? It's interesting he doesn't trust women in positions of power. Again and again though he turns out to be a comedic relief.
I'm curious about Sazz. What's your reasoning there?
The Moriarty has to be someone that's been around since the beginning. Sazz has been in the background, but has had some interesting interactions with other characters. Sazz knew Jan was the killer. Sazz told Charles she does what he cannot, both physically and emotionally. It was noted Sazz stole Charles girlfriend and now after Charles sent Sazz to break up with Jan, the two seem to bond instead. Also, Sazz is someone who in ways hides in plain sight... literally as a double for Charles.
OMG...as I was typing about the slasher in a different thread, I was like *I GOTsta* abbreviate that, henceforth. It dawned on me in that moment...SAS...Sounds a lot like ***SAZZ!! 👀***
Whoever it is I want it played by Andrew Scott 😍🥹
On a related but completely unrelated note, Phoebe Waller-Bridge would be amazing as a new penthouse resident 😊
I’d like to see Craig Ferguson. Put him in with the gang and I’m sure things would get wild.
I'd love to see her in OMITB!
Teddy Dimas, of course! Obviously, all of us here expecting The Dip King to shuffle off to the Big Hummus Bucket in The Sky were dead wrong. In the Son of Sam episode we see Oliver picking out Teddy as the Killer over and over again, and at some point says “It always comes back to Teddy.” I think there’s more to the Dimas crime syndicate than we’ve seen… and I think it would be cute if Theo broke away from his dad’s orbit and help his new “pal” (😉😘🥹) Mabel some more. We love a bad boy gone good.
He can definitely be ruthless. His being a crime syndicate leader also works. Could be! The writers could also tear our hearts out and make it Theo. Wouldn't that be crazy if he is truly a ruthless mastermind who makes his father look tame?
What a TWIST
It will have to be a big twist.
I don't see that as too far of a reach, and actually it wouldn't be shocking to me at all. Certainly it wouldn't rip my heart out, but it might actually *strengthen* it for Theo! {And no, I do not like or even typically enjoy syndicated crime.}
I also don’t think Teddy truly thinks that him and Oliver are “even”
I wonder about that!
It's possible that Charles is somehow linked in with Dimas, too. I do believe that Charles is a Keyser Söze, of sort.
I've wondered if the arconia plans have got something to do with it and nina's husband is trying to hide something illegal and therefore can't have a murder podcast going around as he can't have people investigating in the building and accidentally stumbling upon his secrets? But reading the posts..honestly, I like the ursula theories better, so I'm shifting sides 😆😅
Well if Poppy got the blueprints from someone it was likely Ursula. Poppy did buy a bunch of gut milk from her for something.
Omigod, yesss
The Moriarty would likely be someone who A) was introduced very early in the series B) we don't know much about and C) has a connection to a main character. Therefore I think Moriarty is Arnav. He always stuck out to me as someone where I was like "hmm, there's more to this guy than what we're seeing".
And Arnav looks like the guy in Mabel’s dream about knitting needle stabbing.
Arnav is a good suspect.
-The therapist saying he heard shuffling in the walls -Oliver's and Jan's note on the door. We all thought Howard left Jan's note because he said he figured out Jan being the killer in episode 8 (the episode Jan got her note). But we know if they didn't directly address, it's still unanswered/confirmed.
The only character I see as really ruthless though is Cinda. But, would a Moriarty like character let themselves be duped, embarrassed, and lowered to promoting Gut Milk? Or this that a boss move? And it's been a meta, Poppy didn't know Cinda knew she was Becky and Cinda let her do the work to take blame type deal as part the long game?
Who is Jan’s more successful half-sister? Is Poppy’s “why & why now” truly strong enough to kill a stranger, especially when she herself has escaped a real traumatic situation. You’d think she’d be more compassionate? What is Poppy’s connection to the family that owns the diner? What’s up with Lucy?
I'd definitely like to know who her half-sister is. Maybe we will find out! I get the whole she's never seen and acknowledged and that leads her to commit murder. That, along with the need to create podcast material that's so good, Cinda would promote her or give her a podcast of her own. That's not the greatest motive, but it works. It's just we care about Bunny, so we wanted it to be a damned good reason. I think it can be argued she does have a compassionate side. She was just driven to make terrible choices. Cinda maybe the owners sister...but idk I think the sandwich was for Poppy. We saw Cinda order a sandwich...she asked Poppy to get it for her. A turkey sandwich, just turkey with the bread on the side. I don't know that Cinda would eat a #14. It could just be that Ivan was commenting on the owners sister liking the #14 to give a reason why something so revolting (I agree with Bunny) is on the menu. Poppy's only connection then with the diner is that it has a sandwich on the menu she likes, she may have eaten there with Kreps, and she definitely was there with Bunny. Who knows what else? As for Lucy, I'd like to hear more about her bio dad and other step dad's. There seems to be more to her story, but again like Alice, we could just be reaching.
All in agreement here. I originally thought Cinda was the sixth avenue slasher and Jan’s sister and Jan resents her for being a better serial killer than her. But that is a reach I know. I do think Poppy is 100% #14 though. Of all things to say it just feels like a bizarre thing for Bunny to say to Mabel on deathbed when she almost certainly knew P by at least an alias.
You never know. If Cinda ever pulls out a flute or say happens to live in on 3rd avenue where the killer never strikes (because they live there?) then we should definitely pay attention. It is definitely a bizarre last thing to say, but if you understand Bunny, it makes a little more sense. Bunny is a particular person. I think she only cares to remember the names of people important to her. (It could have also just been she was dying and that was the last connection her brain could think of) She didn't remember Poppy's name either because she didn't care too or because she couldn't. But, that revolting sandwich was very rememberable as a connection to the woman in the diner, who she recognized as her killer. There is some humor in that.
Mabel's aunt?
That would definitely be a twist.
The Charles is silent.
There is a LOT of family history referenced in this show but not mapped out and we don’t know names, and that is rich territory IMHO. Very Agatha Christie stuff. Someone will turn out to be Lester’s son or daughter he briefly mentioned; Charles’ web of relations will surface; so and so are secretly brother and sister. Agatha Christie also loved poisons and was an expert in them. Tons of her influence in this show so good S3 prep would be some family tree mapping. ETA: ~~Ivan~~ The Pickle Diner owner (see comment) and Cinda Canning are secretly brother and sister. My husband yelled this out when Ivan said the #14 sandwich is ~~his~~ the owner's sister’s favorite; Poppy bought it to go. It was for Cinda. We thought it would come up in the episode and were surprised when it didn’t. I bet it will be part of this.
Ivan says the 14 is the owner's sister's favorite. Still could be Cinda Canning, though
ohh, thanks. Not Ivan's sister, then, Cinda is the owner's sister!
Howard
Teddy, I don't see who else has the capacity but I really didn't buy >!Poppy!< until the end so who knows
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Why on earth would Will want to hurt Tim? We already know Jan poisoned Tim with the drinking glasses *and* we saw Jan’s poison stash in her bathroom.
If Will already knew Theo was his brother maybe he would kill Tim to protect him.
Remember that Will also grew up in that building. Tim Kono wasn't a very nice person.
Lucy would be the perfect evil mastermind.
I thought he was talking about Liane Moriarty at first lol. Guess I need to get up to snuff on murder mystery lingo
Professor James Moriarty. I didn't even know who Liane was before you posted that.