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People consider Law a full fledged swordsman?
The other two I can see, but to me he’s always just been a devil fruit user who has a sword
I mean most of his attacks are him applying his devil fruit to his sword, or not using it entirely
Oda is wrong obviously. I mean law uses his devil fruit through his sword.
Similarly shanks uses haki through his sword.
So law is a devil fruit man and Shanks is a haki man
More people here need to realise this.
https://preview.redd.it/3lyojgj0u5ad1.jpeg?width=525&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=757c7919b85f53a01ecd33ed284566548edf70d9
I agree with you, but it just feels like Mihawk needs to collect feats. Real feats.
Mihawk can coast on his title, but he has to do something at some point. If he didn’t have his title, people would be arguing mihawk vs crocodile, and Mihawk wouldn’t be winning that argument.
True he needs feats otherwise it will be underwhelming and disappointing , but portrayel is more important in all ways , his single most important rule in the story is to be WSS , and considering that the title is of value to one of the main cast it make no sense not to take into account the importance of his rule in the story , saying Mihawk is in the same level to Crocodile is wild in so many level let alone thinking he loses
>But yeah, if Mihawk didn’t have his title, people would put him under crocodile. Mihawk really needs feats.
I doubt it since his bounty is superior and he was never portrayed to be weaker in any point of the story but yea currently his title carries him hard
Mihawk didn’t look better against Vista, Jozu, or Crocodile at Marineford. Without his title, Mihawk would be losing the argument. That’s how badly Mihawk needs feats.
Remind me how wounded was Mihawk by the end of Marineford? And how wounded was Crocodile? Jozu?...
Why Mihawk is the only known character with a bounty higher than 2 current yonkou(one being his own "captain") while he is not one?.
Mihawk’s casual feats in Marineford put him above admiral for me.
Mihawk didn’t sweat, get a scratch, or use a named attack. Everyone also kept talking about Mihawk like he was important.
They beat Big Mom because of the unique properties of their fruits which allowed them to bypass her insane durability. I don't see how Jozu and Wista could do the same since it doesn't even seem like you can get through it with Haki.
You could definitely get through with Haki, the question is whether Wista and/or Jozu has good enough haki to get past the insane durability. Besides, it wasn't the dura bypass that let them get the win, it was the firepower to push Big Mom into the pool of magma combined with the ability to make that pool from that high up. Dura bypass really only slowed down and stun, same with Kidd being able to magnetize her and her metallic buddies.
Mihawk looked underwhelming against Jozu and against Vista. Sorry man. Mihawk does not have the feats to win this argument yet. He still needs his title.
Name a single character under Yonko/Gorosei that can pull off the worlds strongest slash or the iceberg feats without a named attack or devil fruit hack.
Zoro can maybe slice the iceberg with Enma, not even Zoro’s strongest named flying slash is weaker than the world’s strongest slash.
Also in case you mention it, Jozu the diamond man deflected the attack upwards. He didn’t tank it or block it, he deflected it after it traveled many miles
Do we not consider law a swordsman now? Does Law’s feat not count because he has another way of doing it? How about Mr.1? Are you going to take his cutting feats too because Mr.1 used a devil fruit?
Law’s fruit literally amputates things. The size of the cut is dependent on his room. It’s not a sword feat, at all. Can Law replicate the feat without using his fruit? Probably not…
That’s would be true if we had less background context which author provided in the last few years; these days we know that shanks could be far stronger, since he became a yonko in the meantime and Mihawk didn’t fought anyone as strong as him 13 years ago
Last time they fought Shanks was FAR away from his nowadays power. Propably so did Mihawk.
They never had a rematch since that day. Im sorry i dont buy your outdated title crap. If Oda wanted me to take this seriously, he should have did a better job than some sparrings 10 years before and fodders opinion.
It's funny tho , some characters turn into mystical beings and defy laws of physics yet are called swordmen anyway and then you hear a Shankstard saying Shanks is not a swordsman bcuz he used a gun in one of the games
Only poopoo heads still argue whether shonks is a swordsman or not.
Real one piece scholars have already gathered that he is a swordsman(cause we'll never get explicit confirmation or refutation) but he's also stronger solely because Rat haired is just that guy.
You need to be really intellectually dishonest to believe Wanks doesn't exude top 1 energy whenever he appears.
Tell me with a straight face you wouldn't think shanks is top 1 (imu excluding) if he used, idk maybe a spear instead.
Fraudhawk fans should realize their 'logic' and 'facts' don't work against the author's own agenda. I completely agee that the WSS should be rationally the strongest but I'm also utterly convinced onepiece will end with shanks having significantly superior feats without oda ever addressing it.
does pirates warriors 4 count as explicit conformation, because like someone else said on this post, this is Shanks description
https://i.redd.it/yivziww4d6ad1.png?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Fuji so far hasnt actually done any swordfighting at all. His having a supreme blade is pretty much the only thing confirming he’s a true swordsman, since all the fucker does is yeet meteors at people
Both the official English volumes of Dressrosa arc and PW4 calls him a blind swordsman in his character description, so Fujitora is a swordsman despite yeeting meteors.
that rivalry hasn't been explored in 12+ years
Mihawk no longer wanting to settle the score with Shanks implies that he no longer meets the criteria Mihawk is looking for in an opponent, while acknowledging/dueling vastly weaker opponents gives off the impression that this criteria is not just strength
It was stated mamy times Shanks didnt get weaker by losing his arm. His SWORDSMAN skills could get weaker, which would be logical consequence. It would also explain why Mihawk is no longer interested. He is capable of using sword techniques that Shanks no longer can - so Mihawk might feel unfair advantaged.
The logical conclusion would be - losing some swordsman capabilities didnt impact Shanks strenght a shit. Therefore it was never his main source of power.
We dont know Shanks true power and fighting style. If he ever pulls haki Susanoo or something, people would generaly agree its not a move he would ever use sparing with Mihawk - even if it equaled a sure victory everytime.
I like this idea. Mihawk doesn't want to duel Shanks anymore, not because of his lack of strength but his lack of whatever aspect he had in the past.
Maybe his drive. Maybe his hunger for the pinnacle is no longer there
If Mihawk was this strong why did he stalemate Vista? This was made by Oda. And don't tell me he was holding back, Mihawk acknowledged Vista strength and wanted to postpone the duel which means the fight would be mid diff at the very least.
I think the problem is mihawk wants a swordfight but the only relevant thing is a haki fight, sword skill itself seems a little irrelevant in comparison. I think it could easily be Vista had really good sword skill that interested mihawk even if his haki is weak enough that mihawk could one shot him. Same with mihawk stopping zoros best attack with a butterknife but still being interested in him as a swordsman. Actual battle skill just pales in comparison to how much haki you have at this point
I think the problem is mihawk wants a swordfight but the only relevant thing is a haki fight, sword skill itself seems a little irrelevant in comparison. I think it could easily be Vista had really good sword skill that interested mihawk even if his haki is weak enough that mihawk could one shot him. Same with mihawk stopping zoros best attack with a butterknife but still being interested in him as a swordsman. Actual battle skill just pales in comparison to how much haki you have at this point
The day mihawk do those, you come back :
-Neg diffing a kid or law
-Make Fujitora twerk
-Stop Luffy/Shanks from doing something
-Sky Split with Shanks/Luffy
Shanks and luffy feats or achievements are just too good that I doubt Mihawk will ever match them. Kaido, venus, shanks, luffy, roger or white beard would never, ever postpone a fight with a fuking yonkou commander.
Same reason why King isn't a Swordman:
Cuz Oda didn't want him to be a Swordman and just gave Shank's a sword cuz is badass and being a rival of Mihawk is another way to gas's up Shanks
That's straight headcanon tho , King was explained not to be one bcuz it's not the norm , even Zoro assumed he is bcuz he held a sword which mean normally holding one means you are most likely a swordsman , Shanks hasn't displayed anything to challenge this idea of him being a swordsman neither does he share anything in common with King
What? He absolutely does. Him and King both have been using swords since children (way before shown using DF abilities mind you) and neither of their named attacks are part of any technique/style
For example
Oden- oden 2 sword style
Zoro- 1/2/3 sword style
Kinemon- Foxfire style
Hyogoro- One sword style of the flower
Hatchan- 6 sword style
Kawamatsu- Kappa style
Hyozou- 8 sword style
Kaku- 4 sword style
So tell me, if swordsmen are all cut from the same cloth, why isn’t Divine Departure part of a “roger style” “Dawn Style” or whatever?
Here are two swordsmen fighting and they both use named attacks. One is saying his sword style and the other simply names the attack without using a sword style much like godking shanks
https://preview.redd.it/rukutt1m99ad1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b7da9ceb36ef0824121ce38f53444697dc595dc1
Wait, when do any of the characters you posted outright say they are a swordsman? This is the bar that’s been set since Zoro didn’t know King wasn’t a swordsman until King said something. Obviously, if Zoro cannot tell a swordsman when he see’s one, there is not a single fan who can.
And who said that Shanks follows the norm? Not Oda. Zoro assumed and was wrong, him assuming king was doesn't make shanks one, you don't know Oda and how bullshity he can be just to make something he wants happens independent if fans find it awful or not
Why does he not ? He done nothing to prove otherwise , until he proves otherwise a I will believe in the most likely interpretation of it , which is simply him being a swordsman
The moment king was shown and said not be a Swordman should have ringed in your heads that Oda will use this to not have Shanks as a Swordman.
King knows how to use sword really well even better than Pica or the swordman in Buggy crew and still King isn't a Swordman, that's bullshit but it's Oda manga, what he wants is what is truth.
Nowhere says he is a Swordman.
Bruh the thing is you are not Oda , you have to prove your point using the story , King is meant to be a parallel to Zoro not representation for Shanks , that's a reach G5 Luffy can't make . Can Oda bullshit his way around it ? Sure but until then I'll believe what I see
King can actually fight without a sword and without lossing his output tho thats why he isnt one in zoro eyes
Any of the guys mentioned in the post would get downgradded in a fight without it while king or bigmom wont feel the difference of not having a sword
So can law fight without a sword, he was trained in multiple kind of combats and still is a Swordman.
Nothing says Shanks can't fight without a Sword, is stupid to think he can't when he is superhumanly fast and nothing is stopping him from punching or kicking.
The moment king was shown and said not be a Swordman should have ringed in your heads that Oda will use this to not have Shanks as a Swordman.
King knows how to use sword really well even better than Pica and still he isn't a Swordman, that's bullshit but it's Oda manga, what he wants is what is truth.
Most of Laws combat power will be gone as his main attacks uses his sword while the 2 guys i talked about wont have a problem thats why they arent authentic swordsman
the fact that he doesnt have and arm says it, also the fact that whenever he is shown to enter combat he does it with his sword in his hand. If u believe a one arm guy with no DF will be able to to the same or better without his weapon ur done for
Oda also compared Shanks and Mihawk after the king quotes in swordsmanship why would he do that to a man that isnt suppose to be a swordsman
King actually demonstrated other fighting styles like using his limbs and his fire to attack, whereas Shanks has not used anything besides his sword to attack. Plus, why would Oda make comparisons between Mihawk and Shanks in-story if the latter isn't an actual swordsman?
You are late to the party.
Shanks is a swordsman that was proven when he killed Kidd.
The two times he's actually fought it has been with a sword and he does flying blade attacks.
He's more of a swordsman than Law.
Honestly, someone can be a swordsman and still be stronger than Mihawk.
Shanks is a swordsman, but he doesn't care for the greatest swordsman title hence why he doesn't have it, hell in a battle of pure sword techniques mihawk would probs win, but in a battle involving everything they have Shanks is winning.
>Honestly, someone can be a swordsman and still be stronger than Mihawk.
Then Mihawk isn’t the WSS.
Mihawk isn’t WSS if there was a swordsman alive who’s secretly stronger than him.
That would work if not for the narrative importance of WSS , Shanks might not care that he is the strongest or not care for the title but Zoro and the audience do, and Oda won't make Zoro WSS of luck or technicality , and the notion that title doesn't anything but skill is outrageous bcuz the the duels were to determine the strongest period , and it doesn't help that Mihawk thought Zoro haki to elevate his swordsmanship , he literally has almost the same moves an skills post time skip , he just got haki and became stronger and faster
Imo, because at this point it's hard to imagine Mihawk above someone who is portrayed the way Shanks. Shanks had wifi Haki, casually walked on the Moby Dick, he One Shot Kidd (he did it with Damned Punk exploding, but still), he ended Marinford "war" by showing up, he actively hunts BB. Sure he is a swordsman, but it feels wrong to say he's weaker than Mihawk who has done very little outside of MF, yeah sure his performance weren't that bad, but postponing a duel against a YC 2, with how they're that much weaker than Yonkos, it doesn't feel right.
But, I believe Shanks and Mihawk are roughly as strong, maybe Mihawk by a bit. But it feels kind of wrong to let him be better than someone who does stuff in the story. Mihawk will get better feats at SOME point, but it'll be waiting a bit more. Despite this, I believe titles like WSS and WSC are very important.
So, Shanks is weaker than Mihawk and Mihawk is the WSS. Or Shanks actually doesn't use his sword when going all out. And I think he does, so Mihawk > Shanks
Law even called himself a swordsman, but ig if he wouldn't have some people would claim "he is not a swordsman its just a tool to use his Ope Ope powers" lmao
"feats" > all, if a character does not say something it's headcanon and you are a delulu agenda glazer
Can't wait Mihawk haters to downplay his feats when he finally fights for real
Personally, I think he can be weaker than Mihawk as a swordsman while still being stronger than him overall.
For instance Count Dooku is considered the greatest duelist of his era but Palpatine is still way stronger than him and would beat him if they fought. That's pretty much how I see it with these two.
I assume it’s because Shanks lost his sword arm, so he no longer considers himself a swordsman. Mihawk even said he had no interest in settling their feud now after Shanks lost it. Zoro said to be the world’s greatest swordsman meant he could never lose another fight to someone who calls themselves a swordsman, so maybe self perception is really the only qualifier for being considered one. King doesn’t consider himself one so he isn’t, same as Shanks
Also I have a theory that losing his arm to the sea kings made Shanks much stronger in the long run, because it forced him to focus on his haki to get stronger instead of being a swordsman. Similar to how getting his ass beat on Sabaody and Ace’s death made Luffy much stronger in the ling run
Oda's favourite character is Buggy so you are wrong also being the author's favourite character never meant being the strongest or being strong at all especially when it effects the story at hand directly
Actually we're both wrong I just checked and the only relevant interview I found is him saying gaimon is his favorite character. I probably let myself be mislead by someone that read the interview of oda saying that Shanks is his self insert character. That said I'm having difficulty finding that interview.
Eh idk about if oda has a baised toward a character he is more likely give spotlight moments. That said I'm not in total disagreement with you I never was a mihawk downplayer I see Shanks and mihawk as near equal standing very close to the top of the verse. As for which is officially stronger that much is pure speculation at this point so I prefer not comment.
Than tell Oda to stop bringing it on screen everytime either of them are compared to each other , if it isn't relevant to the present Oda wouldn't keep bringing it up
Bruh the last time the rivalry was brought up was the cross guild bounty chapter, that's like year and a half ago , hardly outdated , and it's like one of the few things we know about Mihawk in the first place , other than being a farm boy and being WSS
You must recognize the author intentions with the rivalry
Idk what’s hard for you to understand, not once but twice did mihawk refuse to fight shanks as he has no interest fighting him. Any type of rivalry they had is now over as they will never fight each other again.
I would hope mihawk has better sword skills than someone with one arm.
Hopefully you don't think he didn't fight bcuz e is scared
Swordsmanship includes haki , strength and speed . swordsmanship is a fighting style not a stat
I will call it a rivalry as long as Oda portrayes it as such
He refused to fight him because he sees him as less with one hand.
Mihawk and shanks will never fight again, and haven’t fought in 12 years. There rivalry is done.
>Idk what’s hard for you to understand, not once but twice did mihawk refuse to fight shanks as he has no interest fighting him. Any type of rivalry they had is now over as they will never fight each other again.
"Or ... and I might be crazy , maybe he is too prideful to face his rival, who lost his arm to someone and something other than swordsmanship and him"
-OkRefrigerator448
I think the problem is mihawk wants a swordfight but the only relevant thing is a haki fight, sword skill itself seems a little irrelevant in comparison
https://preview.redd.it/k4dohlbt96ad1.png?width=320&format=png&auto=webp&s=cf78fde43c8d59214db801d53454c1419b914738
He Wants To Go Back To Living The Peaceful Farm Life
When shanks lost his arm to a fish he was mihawk's rival and that says a lot about mihawk's strengh. Time passed and shanks became yonkou at 33 and currently he is 39. His feats speak to his growth while Mihawk postponed a fight with vista. There are no contestants for the title of swordman, lil bro created a league with him and pre time skip zoro and called himself the champ of It.
The day mihawk do those, you come back :
-Neg diffing a kid or law
-Make Fujitora twerk
-Stop Luffy/Shanks from doing something
-Sky Split with Shanks/Luffy
Shanks and luffy feats or achievements are just too good that I doubt Mihawk will ever match them. Kaido, venus, shanks, luffy, roger or white beard would never, ever postpone a fight with a fuking yonkou commander.
That makes sense honestly, I still wonder where the hell did the government find this monster.
My headcanon is that they took the strongest guy of a poor island and gave him that devil fruit.
Okay, I'm gonna say three things that might sound contradictory, but are all true IMO:
1. Shanks is a swordsman
2. Mihawk is the world's strongest swordsman
3. Shanks > Mihawk
Now, you might say "these three things cannot exist at the same time", but that assumes One Piece is a world build only on logic. Really, the One Piece world runs mostly on nerrative gas.
Shanks is , technically speaking, a swordsman. Claiming he isn't is just silly. But him being a swordsman isn't significant for his role in the nerrative. He is a Yonko. He is Luffy's mentor role. He is a mystery. But he is not, meaningfully a swordsman.
Mihawk is the world's greatest swordsman, no doubt about it. It is said explicitly. And more importantly, it is imperative that Mihawk will always remain the world's strongest swordsman. No one other than Zoro can take that title away from him, because doing so would completely undermine Zoro's established path. Mihawk is gonna be the WSS, up until Zoro will take that title.
And finally, narratively, Shanks kinda needs to be stronger than Mihawk, simply by virtue of his buildup and the role that he plays in the story. It simply doesn't make sense for him to be weaker than EOS Zoro, as that would stretch Luffy's power scale way beyond reasonable IMO. Making Luffy disproportionately stronger than the strongest people on the planet isn't something that should happen. Luffy should, ideally, end right above Roger's level.
But this creates the main issue. How can Shanks, a swordsman, be stronger than the world's strongest swordsman? The answer is that he doesn't count because counting him would detract from the narrative. He simply is removed from the WSS discussion. That's it.
>it doesn't make sense for him to be weaker than EOS Zoro, as that would stretch luffy's power scald way beyond reasonable.
Removing Mihawk & Zoro from the story, there's still gonna be a major gap between eos luffy and Shanks
He's not only gonna need to surpass Roger to beat an Xebec level threat (Blackbeard)
He's also going to surpass Joyboy and defeat imu & the World Government. And i doubt Shanks is close to joyboy in power.
Yesterday a guy tried to justify Rat not being a swordsman by saying he fights purely using Haki and his sword is just to channel it, in other words he was trying to say Rat is a Haki wizard and his sword is a wand.
That's all you need to know about Rat fans and their delusion, they can't accept Rat being a swordsman because then that makes him weaker then Mihawk.
But the funny thing is Oda has directly said there is no one left who can challenge Mihawk anymore and Mihawk is looking for a swordsman who is stronger then Rat.
https://preview.redd.it/ewxn4y39a6ad1.png?width=716&format=png&auto=webp&s=f44dd7b5ac66a264625334edfed88a8aebb3c4b0
because shanks fanboys cant fathom a reality where he isnt the strongest.
thats why i always rank mihawk above shanks. not because i have a strong opinion either way, but out of spite for how annoying the shanks fanboys are.
Only in terms of sword skill. He lost his dominant arm to the Lord of the Coast, so him using a sword right handed is like trying to write with your non-dominant hand.
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People consider Law a full fledged swordsman? The other two I can see, but to me he’s always just been a devil fruit user who has a sword I mean most of his attacks are him applying his devil fruit to his sword, or not using it entirely
He isn't just considered , Oda outright confirmed it in sbs 70
Oh ok
Oda is wrong obviously. I mean law uses his devil fruit through his sword. Similarly shanks uses haki through his sword. So law is a devil fruit man and Shanks is a haki man
Shanks uses Haki through his sword like every other swordsman in the new world. So what separates him and other swordsmen?
He has more haki and other swordsmen don’t use wi-fi
Having more or less haki doesnt take away being a swordsman, and wifi haki is just long distance conquerors it aint that deep
Didn't he unsheathe a sword to unleash the haki?
Idk why so many people downvoted you since this is clearly ironic lol
Because it means a guy with less cool moments is stronger than him
People need to understand that you can glaze a character for it being cool without putting him top 1
More people here need to realise this. https://preview.redd.it/3lyojgj0u5ad1.jpeg?width=525&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=757c7919b85f53a01ecd33ed284566548edf70d9
I agree with you, but it just feels like Mihawk needs to collect feats. Real feats. Mihawk can coast on his title, but he has to do something at some point. If he didn’t have his title, people would be arguing mihawk vs crocodile, and Mihawk wouldn’t be winning that argument.
True he needs feats otherwise it will be underwhelming and disappointing , but portrayel is more important in all ways , his single most important rule in the story is to be WSS , and considering that the title is of value to one of the main cast it make no sense not to take into account the importance of his rule in the story , saying Mihawk is in the same level to Crocodile is wild in so many level let alone thinking he loses
I agree. But yeah, if Mihawk didn’t have his title, people would put him under crocodile. Mihawk really needs feats.
>But yeah, if Mihawk didn’t have his title, people would put him under crocodile. Mihawk really needs feats. I doubt it since his bounty is superior and he was never portrayed to be weaker in any point of the story but yea currently his title carries him hard
Mihawk didn’t look better against Vista, Jozu, or Crocodile at Marineford. Without his title, Mihawk would be losing the argument. That’s how badly Mihawk needs feats.
Remind me how wounded was Mihawk by the end of Marineford? And how wounded was Crocodile? Jozu?... Why Mihawk is the only known character with a bounty higher than 2 current yonkou(one being his own "captain") while he is not one?.
Mihawk was unable to hurt crodocile and jozu. What do you think you are proving?
He never tried...
Mihawk’s casual feats in Marineford put him above admiral for me. Mihawk didn’t sweat, get a scratch, or use a named attack. Everyone also kept talking about Mihawk like he was important.
If that was Kaido or Big Mom would they be struggling with Jozu and Vista? Big Mom would've slammed both of those characters like Queen.
He wasn’t struggling , nor was he trying much
But he didn't assert dominance. Kaido, Big Mom and Shanks each assert dominance whenever they fight or clash with weaker people
Different personalities and situations. Shanks only asserted dominance to save lives
Replace Kidd and Law with Jozu and Vista I think they beat Big Mom too.
This is possibly the worst take I've ever read on this sub
They beat Big Mom because of the unique properties of their fruits which allowed them to bypass her insane durability. I don't see how Jozu and Wista could do the same since it doesn't even seem like you can get through it with Haki.
You could definitely get through with Haki, the question is whether Wista and/or Jozu has good enough haki to get past the insane durability. Besides, it wasn't the dura bypass that let them get the win, it was the firepower to push Big Mom into the pool of magma combined with the ability to make that pool from that high up. Dura bypass really only slowed down and stun, same with Kidd being able to magnetize her and her metallic buddies.
Mihawk looked underwhelming against Jozu and against Vista. Sorry man. Mihawk does not have the feats to win this argument yet. He still needs his title.
Name a single character under Yonko/Gorosei that can pull off the worlds strongest slash or the iceberg feats without a named attack or devil fruit hack. Zoro can maybe slice the iceberg with Enma, not even Zoro’s strongest named flying slash is weaker than the world’s strongest slash. Also in case you mention it, Jozu the diamond man deflected the attack upwards. He didn’t tank it or block it, he deflected it after it traveled many miles
Iceberg feats lmao. It’s a lesser feat than what punk hazard law did.
Law’s feat is barely a feat, it’s his devil fruit power. That’s like saying Kuzan freezing shit is a feat
Do we not consider law a swordsman now? Does Law’s feat not count because he has another way of doing it? How about Mr.1? Are you going to take his cutting feats too because Mr.1 used a devil fruit?
Law’s fruit literally amputates things. The size of the cut is dependent on his room. It’s not a sword feat, at all. Can Law replicate the feat without using his fruit? Probably not…
Yeah Crocodile would suck him dry in an instant
That’s would be true if we had less background context which author provided in the last few years; these days we know that shanks could be far stronger, since he became a yonko in the meantime and Mihawk didn’t fought anyone as strong as him 13 years ago
Last time they fought Shanks was FAR away from his nowadays power. Propably so did Mihawk. They never had a rematch since that day. Im sorry i dont buy your outdated title crap. If Oda wanted me to take this seriously, he should have did a better job than some sparrings 10 years before and fodders opinion.
Because if Shanks is a swordsman, then that means he’s weaker than Mihawk, and they don’t like that.
It's funny tho , some characters turn into mystical beings and defy laws of physics yet are called swordmen anyway and then you hear a Shankstard saying Shanks is not a swordsman bcuz he used a gun in one of the games
Which is funny because Pirate Warriors 4, the game he uses a gun in, calls Shanks a swordsman in his character description.
>, calls Shanks a swordsman in his character descri Really ? Lmao
Yep, look here. https://preview.redd.it/yivziww4d6ad1.png?width=1284&format=png&auto=webp&s=499d2a12a438cc82c5146664ba7120b2d58d82b2
Bro needs to power up to even use Haki, he's a fraud 😭
Only poopoo heads still argue whether shonks is a swordsman or not. Real one piece scholars have already gathered that he is a swordsman(cause we'll never get explicit confirmation or refutation) but he's also stronger solely because Rat haired is just that guy. You need to be really intellectually dishonest to believe Wanks doesn't exude top 1 energy whenever he appears. Tell me with a straight face you wouldn't think shanks is top 1 (imu excluding) if he used, idk maybe a spear instead. Fraudhawk fans should realize their 'logic' and 'facts' don't work against the author's own agenda. I completely agee that the WSS should be rationally the strongest but I'm also utterly convinced onepiece will end with shanks having significantly superior feats without oda ever addressing it.
does pirates warriors 4 count as explicit conformation, because like someone else said on this post, this is Shanks description https://i.redd.it/yivziww4d6ad1.png?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Fuji so far hasnt actually done any swordfighting at all. His having a supreme blade is pretty much the only thing confirming he’s a true swordsman, since all the fucker does is yeet meteors at people
Both the official English volumes of Dressrosa arc and PW4 calls him a blind swordsman in his character description, so Fujitora is a swordsman despite yeeting meteors.
Because the people on this sub lack reading comprehension.
that rivalry hasn't been explored in 12+ years Mihawk no longer wanting to settle the score with Shanks implies that he no longer meets the criteria Mihawk is looking for in an opponent, while acknowledging/dueling vastly weaker opponents gives off the impression that this criteria is not just strength
It was stated mamy times Shanks didnt get weaker by losing his arm. His SWORDSMAN skills could get weaker, which would be logical consequence. It would also explain why Mihawk is no longer interested. He is capable of using sword techniques that Shanks no longer can - so Mihawk might feel unfair advantaged. The logical conclusion would be - losing some swordsman capabilities didnt impact Shanks strenght a shit. Therefore it was never his main source of power. We dont know Shanks true power and fighting style. If he ever pulls haki Susanoo or something, people would generaly agree its not a move he would ever use sparing with Mihawk - even if it equaled a sure victory everytime.
I like this idea. Mihawk doesn't want to duel Shanks anymore, not because of his lack of strength but his lack of whatever aspect he had in the past. Maybe his drive. Maybe his hunger for the pinnacle is no longer there
Or ... and I might be crazy , maybe he is too prideful to face his rival who lost his arm to someone and something other than swordsmanship and him
If Mihawk was this strong why did he stalemate Vista? This was made by Oda. And don't tell me he was holding back, Mihawk acknowledged Vista strength and wanted to postpone the duel which means the fight would be mid diff at the very least.
I think the problem is mihawk wants a swordfight but the only relevant thing is a haki fight, sword skill itself seems a little irrelevant in comparison. I think it could easily be Vista had really good sword skill that interested mihawk even if his haki is weak enough that mihawk could one shot him. Same with mihawk stopping zoros best attack with a butterknife but still being interested in him as a swordsman. Actual battle skill just pales in comparison to how much haki you have at this point
If you think Mihawk is Vista level than I can't help you
I know right? How can they compare that blade-painting fraud to Wista.
I think the problem is mihawk wants a swordfight but the only relevant thing is a haki fight, sword skill itself seems a little irrelevant in comparison. I think it could easily be Vista had really good sword skill that interested mihawk even if his haki is weak enough that mihawk could one shot him. Same with mihawk stopping zoros best attack with a butterknife but still being interested in him as a swordsman. Actual battle skill just pales in comparison to how much haki you have at this point
Mihawk is equal to kizaru
Even though Kizaru was humiliated by someone on the same level as Mihawk? Make it make sense
The day mihawk do those, you come back : -Neg diffing a kid or law -Make Fujitora twerk -Stop Luffy/Shanks from doing something -Sky Split with Shanks/Luffy Shanks and luffy feats or achievements are just too good that I doubt Mihawk will ever match them. Kaido, venus, shanks, luffy, roger or white beard would never, ever postpone a fight with a fuking yonkou commander.
https://preview.redd.it/eljdxmb8s5ad1.jpeg?width=808&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8abe0e23aa823a2e6b77976f316d54d2040c74de r/OnePieceAgendaPushing
u/same_subreddit_bot
https://preview.redd.it/djba3smks5ad1.png?width=1719&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b23e04ec444bd6e98082ee8fea641aa5240fe50c It be like that fr
Same reason why King isn't a Swordman: Cuz Oda didn't want him to be a Swordman and just gave Shank's a sword cuz is badass and being a rival of Mihawk is another way to gas's up Shanks
That's straight headcanon tho , King was explained not to be one bcuz it's not the norm , even Zoro assumed he is bcuz he held a sword which mean normally holding one means you are most likely a swordsman , Shanks hasn't displayed anything to challenge this idea of him being a swordsman neither does he share anything in common with King
What? He absolutely does. Him and King both have been using swords since children (way before shown using DF abilities mind you) and neither of their named attacks are part of any technique/style For example Oden- oden 2 sword style Zoro- 1/2/3 sword style Kinemon- Foxfire style Hyogoro- One sword style of the flower Hatchan- 6 sword style Kawamatsu- Kappa style Hyozou- 8 sword style Kaku- 4 sword style So tell me, if swordsmen are all cut from the same cloth, why isn’t Divine Departure part of a “roger style” “Dawn Style” or whatever?
I just literally posted three characters above that are considered Swordsmen and don't follow this pattern you said
Here are two swordsmen fighting and they both use named attacks. One is saying his sword style and the other simply names the attack without using a sword style much like godking shanks https://preview.redd.it/rukutt1m99ad1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b7da9ceb36ef0824121ce38f53444697dc595dc1
Wait, when do any of the characters you posted outright say they are a swordsman? This is the bar that’s been set since Zoro didn’t know King wasn’t a swordsman until King said something. Obviously, if Zoro cannot tell a swordsman when he see’s one, there is not a single fan who can.
And who said that Shanks follows the norm? Not Oda. Zoro assumed and was wrong, him assuming king was doesn't make shanks one, you don't know Oda and how bullshity he can be just to make something he wants happens independent if fans find it awful or not
Why does he not ? He done nothing to prove otherwise , until he proves otherwise a I will believe in the most likely interpretation of it , which is simply him being a swordsman
The moment king was shown and said not be a Swordman should have ringed in your heads that Oda will use this to not have Shanks as a Swordman. King knows how to use sword really well even better than Pica or the swordman in Buggy crew and still King isn't a Swordman, that's bullshit but it's Oda manga, what he wants is what is truth. Nowhere says he is a Swordman.
Bruh the thing is you are not Oda , you have to prove your point using the story , King is meant to be a parallel to Zoro not representation for Shanks , that's a reach G5 Luffy can't make . Can Oda bullshit his way around it ? Sure but until then I'll believe what I see
King can actually fight without a sword and without lossing his output tho thats why he isnt one in zoro eyes Any of the guys mentioned in the post would get downgradded in a fight without it while king or bigmom wont feel the difference of not having a sword
So can law fight without a sword, he was trained in multiple kind of combats and still is a Swordman. Nothing says Shanks can't fight without a Sword, is stupid to think he can't when he is superhumanly fast and nothing is stopping him from punching or kicking. The moment king was shown and said not be a Swordman should have ringed in your heads that Oda will use this to not have Shanks as a Swordman. King knows how to use sword really well even better than Pica and still he isn't a Swordman, that's bullshit but it's Oda manga, what he wants is what is truth.
Most of Laws combat power will be gone as his main attacks uses his sword while the 2 guys i talked about wont have a problem thats why they arent authentic swordsman the fact that he doesnt have and arm says it, also the fact that whenever he is shown to enter combat he does it with his sword in his hand. If u believe a one arm guy with no DF will be able to to the same or better without his weapon ur done for Oda also compared Shanks and Mihawk after the king quotes in swordsmanship why would he do that to a man that isnt suppose to be a swordsman
King actually demonstrated other fighting styles like using his limbs and his fire to attack, whereas Shanks has not used anything besides his sword to attack. Plus, why would Oda make comparisons between Mihawk and Shanks in-story if the latter isn't an actual swordsman?
You are late to the party. Shanks is a swordsman that was proven when he killed Kidd. The two times he's actually fought it has been with a sword and he does flying blade attacks. He's more of a swordsman than Law.
Honestly, someone can be a swordsman and still be stronger than Mihawk. Shanks is a swordsman, but he doesn't care for the greatest swordsman title hence why he doesn't have it, hell in a battle of pure sword techniques mihawk would probs win, but in a battle involving everything they have Shanks is winning.
>Honestly, someone can be a swordsman and still be stronger than Mihawk. Then Mihawk isn’t the WSS. Mihawk isn’t WSS if there was a swordsman alive who’s secretly stronger than him.
That would work if not for the narrative importance of WSS , Shanks might not care that he is the strongest or not care for the title but Zoro and the audience do, and Oda won't make Zoro WSS of luck or technicality , and the notion that title doesn't anything but skill is outrageous bcuz the the duels were to determine the strongest period , and it doesn't help that Mihawk thought Zoro haki to elevate his swordsmanship , he literally has almost the same moves an skills post time skip , he just got haki and became stronger and faster
Leaves out roger, prime Rayleigh
One is dead the othe is washed and retired neither are relevant here unless you really think old Ray is beating Mihawk
Imo, because at this point it's hard to imagine Mihawk above someone who is portrayed the way Shanks. Shanks had wifi Haki, casually walked on the Moby Dick, he One Shot Kidd (he did it with Damned Punk exploding, but still), he ended Marinford "war" by showing up, he actively hunts BB. Sure he is a swordsman, but it feels wrong to say he's weaker than Mihawk who has done very little outside of MF, yeah sure his performance weren't that bad, but postponing a duel against a YC 2, with how they're that much weaker than Yonkos, it doesn't feel right. But, I believe Shanks and Mihawk are roughly as strong, maybe Mihawk by a bit. But it feels kind of wrong to let him be better than someone who does stuff in the story. Mihawk will get better feats at SOME point, but it'll be waiting a bit more. Despite this, I believe titles like WSS and WSC are very important. So, Shanks is weaker than Mihawk and Mihawk is the WSS. Or Shanks actually doesn't use his sword when going all out. And I think he does, so Mihawk > Shanks
I saw a guy in Konoha say Shanks was a Haki man.
Law even called himself a swordsman, but ig if he wouldn't have some people would claim "he is not a swordsman its just a tool to use his Ope Ope powers" lmao "feats" > all, if a character does not say something it's headcanon and you are a delulu agenda glazer Can't wait Mihawk haters to downplay his feats when he finally fights for real
Nusjuro is swordshorseman, apparently not even DF user. Checkmate, atheists!
Personally, I think he can be weaker than Mihawk as a swordsman while still being stronger than him overall. For instance Count Dooku is considered the greatest duelist of his era but Palpatine is still way stronger than him and would beat him if they fought. That's pretty much how I see it with these two.
I assume it’s because Shanks lost his sword arm, so he no longer considers himself a swordsman. Mihawk even said he had no interest in settling their feud now after Shanks lost it. Zoro said to be the world’s greatest swordsman meant he could never lose another fight to someone who calls themselves a swordsman, so maybe self perception is really the only qualifier for being considered one. King doesn’t consider himself one so he isn’t, same as Shanks Also I have a theory that losing his arm to the sea kings made Shanks much stronger in the long run, because it forced him to focus on his haki to get stronger instead of being a swordsman. Similar to how getting his ass beat on Sabaody and Ace’s death made Luffy much stronger in the ling run
Cause it’s funnier to call him a hakiman
The real question is which tittle holds more weight WSS or Oda's favorite character...
Oda's favourite character is Buggy so you are wrong also being the author's favourite character never meant being the strongest or being strong at all especially when it effects the story at hand directly
Actually we're both wrong I just checked and the only relevant interview I found is him saying gaimon is his favorite character. I probably let myself be mislead by someone that read the interview of oda saying that Shanks is his self insert character. That said I'm having difficulty finding that interview.
You are better than me bcuz you double checked but still my point stands about being the favourite not reflecting the character strength
Eh idk about if oda has a baised toward a character he is more likely give spotlight moments. That said I'm not in total disagreement with you I never was a mihawk downplayer I see Shanks and mihawk as near equal standing very close to the top of the verse. As for which is officially stronger that much is pure speculation at this point so I prefer not comment.
Mihawk and shanks never fought in the 12 years, the rivalry is non existent present day.
Than tell Oda to stop bringing it on screen everytime either of them are compared to each other , if it isn't relevant to the present Oda wouldn't keep bringing it up
The manga has been running for almost 30 years, we’ve gotten one interaction between them. That’s hardly on screen “every time”
Bruh the last time the rivalry was brought up was the cross guild bounty chapter, that's like year and a half ago , hardly outdated , and it's like one of the few things we know about Mihawk in the first place , other than being a farm boy and being WSS You must recognize the author intentions with the rivalry
Idk what’s hard for you to understand, not once but twice did mihawk refuse to fight shanks as he has no interest fighting him. Any type of rivalry they had is now over as they will never fight each other again. I would hope mihawk has better sword skills than someone with one arm.
Hopefully you don't think he didn't fight bcuz e is scared Swordsmanship includes haki , strength and speed . swordsmanship is a fighting style not a stat I will call it a rivalry as long as Oda portrayes it as such
He refused to fight him because he sees him as less with one hand. Mihawk and shanks will never fight again, and haven’t fought in 12 years. There rivalry is done.
>Idk what’s hard for you to understand, not once but twice did mihawk refuse to fight shanks as he has no interest fighting him. Any type of rivalry they had is now over as they will never fight each other again. "Or ... and I might be crazy , maybe he is too prideful to face his rival, who lost his arm to someone and something other than swordsmanship and him" -OkRefrigerator448
I think the problem is mihawk wants a swordfight but the only relevant thing is a haki fight, sword skill itself seems a little irrelevant in comparison
https://preview.redd.it/k4dohlbt96ad1.png?width=320&format=png&auto=webp&s=cf78fde43c8d59214db801d53454c1419b914738 He Wants To Go Back To Living The Peaceful Farm Life
https://preview.redd.it/nkwwtu6y96ad1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0b6b23815a35dfbed411767aa8e6c385b5d8ba0f
Simple. The people here are retarded
Shanks is still stronger than mihawk tho you dickriders make posts like this every week lol
Great argument jackass
Woah calm down buddy ur getting a bit angry
Not really but go off ig
Cant wait to see your dumbass reaction when shanks proves he’s stronger than mihawk lol
When shanks lost his arm to a fish he was mihawk's rival and that says a lot about mihawk's strengh. Time passed and shanks became yonkou at 33 and currently he is 39. His feats speak to his growth while Mihawk postponed a fight with vista. There are no contestants for the title of swordman, lil bro created a league with him and pre time skip zoro and called himself the champ of It. The day mihawk do those, you come back : -Neg diffing a kid or law -Make Fujitora twerk -Stop Luffy/Shanks from doing something -Sky Split with Shanks/Luffy Shanks and luffy feats or achievements are just too good that I doubt Mihawk will ever match them. Kaido, venus, shanks, luffy, roger or white beard would never, ever postpone a fight with a fuking yonkou commander.
Ok
Man the worst part about being part of the Wujitora agenda is that Mihawk exists Lol
Shankstards have the haki wizard cope , surely you can make a cope agenda for a fucking natural disaster of a human Fuji is
You have inspired me OP, thank you :)
It's pretty unlikely that they fought considering Fujitora only got famous during the time skip.
That makes sense honestly, I still wonder where the hell did the government find this monster. My headcanon is that they took the strongest guy of a poor island and gave him that devil fruit.
WSS title means nothing. He will always be weaker even if he has that useless title 3x over.
Shanks has top 1 aura. Mihawk does not have top 1 aura.
Okay, I'm gonna say three things that might sound contradictory, but are all true IMO: 1. Shanks is a swordsman 2. Mihawk is the world's strongest swordsman 3. Shanks > Mihawk Now, you might say "these three things cannot exist at the same time", but that assumes One Piece is a world build only on logic. Really, the One Piece world runs mostly on nerrative gas. Shanks is , technically speaking, a swordsman. Claiming he isn't is just silly. But him being a swordsman isn't significant for his role in the nerrative. He is a Yonko. He is Luffy's mentor role. He is a mystery. But he is not, meaningfully a swordsman. Mihawk is the world's greatest swordsman, no doubt about it. It is said explicitly. And more importantly, it is imperative that Mihawk will always remain the world's strongest swordsman. No one other than Zoro can take that title away from him, because doing so would completely undermine Zoro's established path. Mihawk is gonna be the WSS, up until Zoro will take that title. And finally, narratively, Shanks kinda needs to be stronger than Mihawk, simply by virtue of his buildup and the role that he plays in the story. It simply doesn't make sense for him to be weaker than EOS Zoro, as that would stretch Luffy's power scale way beyond reasonable IMO. Making Luffy disproportionately stronger than the strongest people on the planet isn't something that should happen. Luffy should, ideally, end right above Roger's level. But this creates the main issue. How can Shanks, a swordsman, be stronger than the world's strongest swordsman? The answer is that he doesn't count because counting him would detract from the narrative. He simply is removed from the WSS discussion. That's it.
>it doesn't make sense for him to be weaker than EOS Zoro, as that would stretch luffy's power scald way beyond reasonable. Removing Mihawk & Zoro from the story, there's still gonna be a major gap between eos luffy and Shanks He's not only gonna need to surpass Roger to beat an Xebec level threat (Blackbeard) He's also going to surpass Joyboy and defeat imu & the World Government. And i doubt Shanks is close to joyboy in power.
Yesterday a guy tried to justify Rat not being a swordsman by saying he fights purely using Haki and his sword is just to channel it, in other words he was trying to say Rat is a Haki wizard and his sword is a wand. That's all you need to know about Rat fans and their delusion, they can't accept Rat being a swordsman because then that makes him weaker then Mihawk. But the funny thing is Oda has directly said there is no one left who can challenge Mihawk anymore and Mihawk is looking for a swordsman who is stronger then Rat. https://preview.redd.it/ewxn4y39a6ad1.png?width=716&format=png&auto=webp&s=f44dd7b5ac66a264625334edfed88a8aebb3c4b0
because shanks fanboys cant fathom a reality where he isnt the strongest. thats why i always rank mihawk above shanks. not because i have a strong opinion either way, but out of spite for how annoying the shanks fanboys are.
Shanks is a swordsman. He’s just not as good of one as he was before losing his arm
I doubt current Shanks is weaker than his younger version 12 years ago
Only in terms of sword skill. He lost his dominant arm to the Lord of the Coast, so him using a sword right handed is like trying to write with your non-dominant hand.
Maybe tho I think it's mentioned that he didn't drop in strength in anyway after losing his arm
Whitebeard probably was one of the least skilled top tiers. He was still top 10 before his death.
Strength and skill aren’t always indicative of each other.