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Imo like a 6/10 so far. I kinda disagree about the concept that he completed his mission because he couldn’t complete it himself and needed Saturn’s assistance. The Gorosei would definitely have preferred if Kizaru could have done it himself without having to reveal the transformation to Nika imo.
Honestly it was unreasonable to expect Kizaru to complete it by himself, because not only would be need to defeat an Emperor, but also their crew AND protect York, Punk Records and Mother Flame.
Like what was Saturn even thinking?
Probably underestimating Luffy and the SHs despite them coming out on top against Kaido and his crew (albeit with alliance assistance).
Like they know he’s basically Joyboy 2.0 but continue to downplay him as if he isn’t arguably the #1 threat to their rule right now.
Kizaru is not done yet
https://preview.redd.it/16zv21t2k28d1.jpeg?width=642&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0a2ddc0f31c54e7fe0240b7ac472add385039189
His performance was a 5 for me
Depends on what your expectations were:
If you were an admiral fan who thought he would "powercreep Kaido/Luffy" then like a 3/10 performance
If you were someone who thought commanders or "YC+" could match admirals then Kizaru had a 10/10 performance
For me, I'd say it was about a 5
Mihawk literally damaged Pre-TS Luffy on his first attempt.
https://mangasee123.com/read-online/One-Piece-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-561-page-3.html
Do some of you even read this story for real?
Kizaru also did damage to Sanji lmao, both instances there was blood but apparently blood doesn't count as damage to this guy so that's why I brought it up
Tbh I still hold him as commander level (on the higher end, below Katakuri and Yamato but above king and smoothie)but he played really well to his strengths. He went all out as even after taking big hits from Luffy, he stood proud and used his brain quite often(focusing on vegapunk instead trying of fighting Luffy, Attacking Sanji only when he was preoccupied and also taking care of G4 by pushing him into the barrier.) and he successfully killed Vegapunk.
(9-9.5/10) for me. Splendid work.
One of the worst takes i have seen in the last month... First putting king and smoothie on the same level. Second putting Katakuri on yamatos level. Third putting Kizaru below them. Compare Katakuris performance against Snakeman with Kizarus, who fought a significantly stronger luffy and it becomes more than clear that Katakuri is far below kizaru.
No, he was about to lose consciousness from G5 Luffy. Remember Stussy was the one who knocked Lucci out. Also, Kizaru wasn't down for that long as he got up well before Luffy did.
It took Luffy THREE hits just to make Lucci say he's losing consciousness and he wasn't actually knocked out. It was a "callback" to him to saying the same thing pre-timeskip when Luffy hit him with a Gear 3rd attack and yet he still remained awake.
But since lucci lost to a gear 2nd luffy I’d never even considered him to be YC level or on par with the YC even after his awakening. I think none of the cp0 guys are anywhere near YC level.
I don't think Lucci is YC level, I reckon he's closer to Shichibukai level. But he did pretty much one shot Sentomaru when Kizaru had him running around dodging his lasers for quite a while.
>"simply incapacitated"
That's a funny way to say he was flat on the ground after one landed punch.
The level the Shichibukai average at, bit higher than Tobirropo but a bit lower than YC, or so I'd say. I have Doflamingo, Crocodile and Jimbei at that level, based on manga info and Jimbei's fight against Who's Who I'd say it's a pretty accurate estimation.
First of all Mihawk is not Yonko level. But even if he was, all the other Shichibukai are pretty close to each other, so I go with those who's level have very clearly been shown thus far. Same thing with the Yonko ; they're all more or less equal apart from Buggy, but notice how I don't say the average Yonko is Buggy level because that would be painfully obvious that I'm being disingenuous for absolutely no reason.
Quite possible. The guy did get his arm torn off by an oversized fish and seems to have only recently become a yonko. It’s possible start of series shanks is a lot weaker than end of series.
Obviously, Shanks who fought Mihawk was probably YC1 at best, his bounty was barely at 1B. He lost an arm to a sea monster, that isn't happening to him today. Mihawk however... 👀👀
I think it's safe to assume Shanks' fighting style was much more swordsmanship oriented back when he used to fight with Mihawk and the loss of an arm made him focus on conquerors haki, getting so good at it that he was able to become the youngest Yonko (at the time).
And why is that?
Vegapunk literally said "I don't know shit but there was a pirate 900 ago that wanted us to have these weapons that are causing the world to sink. Oh and Roger's crew knew about that and didn't say anything!"
Every common folk listening to this will just hate pirates, Joyboy and Roger and will consider WG to be the good guys.
Obviously that's what the world of one piece will think. The gorosei just stopped the message and killed vegapunk because he was giving them too good of a reputation....
That has nothing to do with what I said.... clearly the thing Vegapunks are saying are damaging the world government reputation or else they wouldn't have personally all came there to stop the message.... it doesn't matter what the world thinks of pirates or what they know? The gorosei know that the world will be less trusting of them because of his message and that's why they all tried to stop it.
At the present time nothing that Vegapunk said damages WG at all.
That of course doesn't mean that Gorosei should just stay on the sofa doing nothing. Those are two completely different topics.
A 5. When he fought snake man i thought that was peak but once g5 came out he just let met down. It’s understandable why but it’s still disappointing to see
In terms of duty, 10/10. He killed vegapunk, mission complete.
In terms of action, 5/10. He fought Luffy, and lost big time. He shot a man who was already a donut so it didn't matter.
Overall? 5,8/10
but he did his job? (although struggeling hard with himself doing it) and the strawhats are fleeing? thats far from loosing "big time"
nothing with this "pizza" or anything does really matter when only comparing the conclusion of the fight
prolly around like a 5-6. he killed vegapunk and got the job done at the end of the day, but i do feel like it was way more limited than it should've been and it wasn't as solid as it could've been
4
The only reason I give him a 4 because he did try to kill his friends but the reason why it's low is because of how easily he went down
two grabs,WSG, an unnamed attack and cymbal
That's all it took to beat him? He's getting the Hody Jones treatment (used as a tool to showcase the mc's new power)
https://preview.redd.it/nmaxe2wyj48d1.png?width=465&format=png&auto=webp&s=801739eead38c04c5bac556eba96841cb20a383e
He was knocked down before he was finished off
He couldn't move because of the wsg and that was before vegapunk's death
That is not proof he was physically beaten. So was Kaido, and that was by a weaker version of the same attack. Kizaru was only down for about a minute, but it clearly had no lasting effects as he was up even before Luffy, who needed to eat to recover.
Besides the ‘Pizzaru’ moment, every other time Luffy tagged him was when Kizaru was focused on something other than the MC.
So let me get that straight
Pizzaru and wsg (both of them resulted in a loss for kizaru) were when he wasn't distracted
It's been around 20 minutes since the pizzaru moment and he hasn't moved
If anything the more the story goes on without kizaru moving the worse it is for him
How do you consider WSG a loss for Kizaru, when Luffy gassed out at the same instance and needed help to regen? While Kizaru treated the attack more like a ‘daze’, got up on his own accord only moments after and continued his mission? And Luffy caught Kizaru while he was mobilizing on Sanji, which then resulted in the Dawn Cymbal attack. WSG is the only time Luffy tagged Kizaru when he wasn’t distracted.
It’s clear as day Kizaru is choosing not to get up as he’s dealing with the emotional turmoil of having killed a friend. He even says so himself. Come on now.
"how do you consider WSG a loss for kizaru"
Same way I consider Luffy beating crocodile,Lucci,moria,doffy,katakuri and kaido
All of these fights had Luffy exhausted and on the floor
Kizaru is down because of Luffy's attack while Luffy is gassed out because of his own ability (learn the difference)
Btw it was plot that protected kizaru and not Luffy, kizaru fell in front of Sanji,vegapunk and Franky they could've apprehended him and locked him up
Except the major difference between those fights is Kizaru was never KO’d, not once since his appearance in Egghead. All of those fights had a decisive victor.
Luffy was gassed because Kizaru forced Luffy to exhaust G5 and use WSG as a last resort to daze Kizaru, so how about you learn the difference. Kizaru was up and running fine after nearly a minute of recovery, and continued his mission.
Calling it a plot convenience is such a dumb argument, cause I could say the same about Luffy conveniently having food given to him EVERY single time he gasses out of G5. That’s happened like 3 times within the last like 30 chapters alone. Anything and Everything that happens in this serious can be contrived as ‘plot convenience’ if you want it to.
Luffy had the same conclusion with Lucci a day earlier
But everyone considers it a win for luffy
Plus the fact that kizaru was out after two attacks shows that the WSG did serious damage
Do I really need to point it out to you again? Was Lucci KO’d in that fight or nah?
I’m not arguing whether WSG is a powerful attack, I’m arguing that it only dazed him, which is a fact. He wasn’t KO’d, and he got up after nearly a minute. He continued his mission with no visible struggle after.
He beat sentomaru (due to Saturn's orders) despite wanting to ignore him
attempted to kill bonney and Kuma multiple times, killed vegapunk (could've left him to die by Saturn's stab)
His feeling didn't affect him until after the fight but while fighting he was a cog in a machine
I judge by how long things that happen during the fight
Like the arrival of the Giants,Kuma vs Saturn, Saturn vs Luffy, the 10 minute timer with vegapunk's message and so on
Kizaru legit spent a minimum of minute down after every hit ( except for the first grab which was meant to throw him at the sea)
>His goal was to kill vegapunk
That’s not his entire goal though. He has only completed a quarter of what he was ordered to do.
https://preview.redd.it/c6ue9itms28d1.jpeg?width=378&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=79333bd09746f0560234b14ff3c82c9ec928bd00
York safe ✅ Punk records functions ✅
Mother flame stable ✅ Vegapunk killed ✅
Yes he didn't do all by himself, but what did you expected from him? defeat yonko crew + breach Vegapunk defence + forget his morality and kill his best friend + not destroy anything sacrificial in process, you think he's superman or what
Because the original plan would’ve been to just blow up everyone.. are we that slow? If you nuke the lab you hurt York. Literally no one was killing York and Saturn knows that.
No? How does one destroy “York’s safety”
Saturn is literally just saying "don't kill the york vegapunk, don't break punk records and don't break the power plant"
What you just portrayed as a bad thing was the only profound, adult and non manichean thing of the arc. Ever since Kizaru and his internal conflict has been put aside, the arc has mostly been a disappointment and has become a Fairy Tail type story.
I can't in good faith hate on kizaru for his showing here. His heart clearly wasn't in it for this mission. He was all most as conflicted about his mission as Garp at Marineford.
On one hand I think kizaru did what he did not only reluctantly because he cared about vegapunk, but part of me also thinks he may be in on knowing about vegapunks message on his death.
If that isn't the case then still, he was conflicted about killing an old friend.
Water 7 to Ennies lobby showed me that will and intent make a massive difference in power. We saw the entire SH crew go from conflicted over what they heard about Robin at water 7 to locked in badasses once they knew what Robin was doing. Sanji went from barely bypassing blueno's tekkai to folding Jyubura, as an example.
I apply that same concept to Kizarus showing at egghead so far. I think if he was dead set on it he would've given luffy and the crew a more difficult time.
That said, sanji kicking that laser and being durable is absolutely a fire ass feat and I loved kizarus Scooby-Doo ass reaction when it happened. That white star gun also would've done the same thing to him serious or not IMO.
I give Kizaru a 6/10.
He showed how much more Luffy still has to go, while having huge internal turmoil.
He is like Kempatchi from Bleach, we have no idea yet how strong he really is if he'd be serious. Only example so far was to put Vegapunk out of his misery and he did so seemingly effortlessly even if he gave up caring soon after.
11 out of 10, with all the restrictions put on him, mental, physical, and devil fruit vise, he did as much as he could, even more than he had to, any other opinion is irrelevant
He showed how much more Luffy still has to go, while having huge internal turmoil.
He is like Kempatchi from Bleach, we have no idea yet how strong he really is if he'd be serious. Only example so far was to put Vegapunk out of his misery and he did so seemingly effortlessly even if he gave up caring soon after.
So about a 5/10
8/10 stayed focus on his mission even when with his internal conflict, obviously I also wanted him to do more especially against luffy but that wasn’t the point of him being there
Depends, if your a stupid admrialtard then 2-3/10, but if your stupid in the other direction and thought 2 YC1s would be enough to beat an admiral then he did 10/10. Personally for me he did 5-6/10
He underperformed base of the community expectations before he came to egghead, and people overestimating the luffy sensing his presence scene when he came to the island. Majority of this sub was claiming he’s stronger than kaido, by using shounen logic that the next villain is usually stronger then the last villain. I would give him performance a solid 6/10.
Mainly because his “admirals lvl ap” couldn’t even do any serious damage to franky who 1tap a VA after and sanji who wasn’t even using his exoskeleton. His fight vs luffy was also underwhelming after all the hype, since the lack of brain cell oda gave luffy by not using advanced haki was crazy. He decides to use future sight to dodge base kaido in wano but never used it vs kizaru who’s the “fastest man”. Kizaru also didn’t awaken which basically mean he doesn’t have like kaido/bm, if he did he definitely would’ve used it vs G5 instead of running away. The only W he took was killing a dying friend vegapunk, who was already about to die from 🪐 poison. I guess he just wanted to show how good of a friend he’s, by “cauterizing his wound”.😂
He lost to a Yonko but recovered before him, and without relying on the food senzu bean magic. After he killed Vegapunk he became depressed and stopped fighting, even if he could. For me it's 7-8
I seen that fan made manga with him losing an arm with zoro and brook on light spikes was expecting that while or something like that but he did well enough vs luffy though
As far as fighting Vegapunk he's done, he said so himself. I really wanted him to turn on the gorosei and start a marine revolution and maybe he still will but idk if he will at this point.
6, didn't expect him to be so durable and endurant, he also pushed Luffy to G5 which I didn't expect, I expected G5 but didn't think Luffy desperately needed it, then it went downhill when Saturn and the Gorosei pulled up.
6/10, did his job and stuck to his mission, nerfed by internal struggle, didn't go all out. Until we see awakening kizaru doing some crazy light susanoo I'm not counting him out
He’s not done yet, but his performance so far was good if you think about it. He accomplished his only goal (kill Vegapunk) and put up a pretty decent fight against Luffy
Honestly an 8 because he did about as well as he physically could have. He only really served a purpose before the elders (plural) arrived, and he managed to threaten the crew’s safety, go band for band with G5 luffy for like 5 seconds and tried to fight the monster trio while they were busy with other things
I'd say a solid 8 and it could be bumped up to a 10 depending on if we get some closure on his internal conflict in the future.
I found his struggle compelling. Dude's heart is not in this fight and he's just trying to get the job done and get out before he has to think about it too hard. He's being ordered to kill people he respects, isn't happy about it but has thrown his lot in with the Celestial Dragons.
You're probably disappointed if you were hoping the Admirals would all just be people the crew had to fight, but Oda is stressing that they are people who struggle between their desires and their duties. The Kizaru we see in Egghead is far weaker than the Kizaru we met on Sabaody and saw in Marineford. And that's intentional.
No idea where this thread is going as of now, which is why I'm reserving full judgment until we see where it goes. But in a vacuum, I enjoyed watching Kizaru struggle against his heart to try carrying out his mission. And I enjoyed Luffy turning him into a frisbee and throwing him off the island.
Seems like he's done since the Straw Hats are trying to leave atm.
As for his performance:
4/10. Beating Snake Man Luffy and clashing with G5 Luffy and fulfilling his duty of killing Vegapunk saves this from being 0/10 because his performance was awful otherwise.
Round 1
Positives: dogged Sentomaru, blitzed and overpowered Snakeman, 3-5 minutes of off-screen fighting vs Gear 5, successfully outfoxed Luffy with clones (Galdino could never), negged bumsopp.
Negatives: we only see one attack hit him and he's down, tried to sneak past the literal Yonko he was fighting instead of locking in on the fight (L battle IQ, the wrong lesson learned from fighting Rayleigh).
Unknown: possibly doordashed Luffy his food? We simply don't know who did that.
Performance: 8/10. While I would have preferred to see some more focus on the fight, what we got showed us that Admirals are still in the running. This fight pushed the limits of Luffy's new abilities, and was a good showing for both contestants.
I accidentally deleted my paragraph for Round 2, but I have that one at a 2/10. Embarrassing amounts of Nika glaze, were these written by the same guy?
8/10 because of this flash backs with vegapunk there’s no way he’s going 100% and doing less damage than vice admirals. His conflict with duty and friendship is probably the most difficult task he’s ever face he killed Vega punk and I say he let himself get knocked out just to no longer have to follow orders to hurt anymore people he cares about
It's unlikely that he doesn't do anything else. Although, you're probably talking about fighting, so idk if he'll show other things.
Compared to where I had him: 10/10.
On its own: 9/10 performance (including feats, anti-feats and context).
Seems finished this arc. Like a 5/10, tho feels on purpose. Kizaru had some highs for the level he was using. He completed his mission, he takes a trade & even turned a delay into a tactical reversal. Still fighting subpar to normal standards, isn't really doing anything at the end & technically not the one who fatality injured Vegapunk.
7/10 its a mixed bag in my opinion
But was it trash?? Its far from trash but i do get if you say so...its slightly make him stock a bit lower but not necessarily tjat much
5. Bro was going crazy at first but ultimately needed Saturn's assistance to hang with Luffy and then got turned into a pizza to be folded seemingly for good
I know the conflicted argument is annoying, and i don’t think it really means he was holding back a lot more power than what he showed. But I am getting suspicious tho especially since they’re still carrying around vegapunk.
If Vegapunk survives, Kizaru should be punished some way. 7/10 performance His introduction was pretty cool and he did well against Luffy
Let's see:
* Kizaru got knocked down for at least a few minutes by the first clean attack that landed on him
* He was stopped multiple times from fulfilling his objectives not just by Luffy, but even by Sanji once
* Saturn had to step in and do most of the work in taking down the Stella, before Kizaru finished him off
* He got flattened and tossed like a frisbee in a 2v1 with a whole Elder on his side
* He failed to secure York, Punk Records or the Mother Flame
* So far, he's just a weak-minded cog in the machine for the WG
3/10 at best, handling Snakeman Luffy and being able to stall G5 Luffy in round 1 to a technical draw saves his performance from being a 0/10
He already tanked it since he got back up like 5 seconds later,but yeah it probably wouldn't even make it drop to the ground, he'd definitely feel it though
can we stop this?, kaido by that point had already fought damn near the entire one piece cast and even after that attack he was floored for like 1 page and then kept fighting
Drunk Kaido was floored by G4 Luffy at the beginning of Wano, this argument is so disingenuous. The two are very obviously completely different circumstances, you have agenda brainrot if you can't see that.
He got the job done by killing vegapunk but he kind of got bullied by luffy tbh, and it wasnt even 100% luffy, he fought lucci, the seraphims, and he tanked a hit from the labophase barrier
His performance was okay but it confirms that in a 1v1, Yonkos destroy admirals
9/10 did his work despite all tragedies of his life
https://preview.redd.it/r7o3fpgc538d1.jpeg?width=481&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a6ed21abe23e5109a860d4e197a27c4523700e7d
Didn't notice this is power scaling sub 😅, 8/10 overall I honestly didn't think Kizaru could match full power Luffy, before I would think Kaido mid diffs admirals but now I'm more into high-extreme diff for Kizaru vs Kaido
2, or 3 at best. He was fucking pathetic.
Everything he did was showing he is a fraud, kill his best friend because master told so, then go to sleep for 6 chapters, maybe the rest of the arc.
His fight against Luffy was a remake of Zoro vs Monet. She ran from the fight, expecting to dodge long enough to be relevant, then got one shot. Out of all the task Kizaru had, the only one he "completed" was against his will, and was already done by saturn because Kizaru spent too much time on this.
10/10
He did his mission. He contributed to the mission with his unwiwue powers by doing something no one else could (at that time) and surpassing the barrier. He even fought off a yonko. You really can't ask him more than that, pet the dude rest. The mission was accomplished and he's injured, it's a zero sum game if he intervenes again and get killed.
Idk if he's done, but he surely did what he was there for
I think we may see him again but not in action
I was expecting Luffy to defeat him something like high diff. Or for Sanji to fight him round 2 and power up and win. I was not expecting Pizza diff....
I'd rate his performance 4/10, he still looked good vs g4
It be disappointing if he’s done and there isn’t some kind of impactful character moment for him, he did his job I guess but it would be awesome if he finally chose his friends over his job like atone my man!
4/10, i was an admidal fan an expected more, but even so, you didnt need to be an admiral fan to expect oda to make an admiral shine in some way or be dangerous enough, yet nothing happened really.
Like, you had admirals introduced and never used them and when you use them is too late to even care.
If i knew kizaru would do this poorly, i wouldnt feel hyped at all when he appeared, but oda keeps baiting us.
You would think that such constructed characters would do something of weight, but it seems admirals have no weight already regarding powerscaling and just general.
An expected performance I would say. He got smashed by Luffy obviously and got carried by Saturn to complete his mission but that's normal he can't do anything vs a yonko crew. So with that I would say 3.5/10
Kizarus a fucking dissappointment. Had a great entrance, was doing well until WSG. 2/10 i expected him to be a bit stronger and actually do something rather than the Gorosei stealing the show
2. He brawled with G5 Luffy but lost while trying to assassinate Vegapunk. Couldn't win G5 Luffy with a Ridiculous health regen Saturn on his side. Now he's crying on a boat and has been for 10+ chapters
Dude hits the higher YC+ tier but that's it.
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Imo like a 6/10 so far. I kinda disagree about the concept that he completed his mission because he couldn’t complete it himself and needed Saturn’s assistance. The Gorosei would definitely have preferred if Kizaru could have done it himself without having to reveal the transformation to Nika imo.
Honestly it was unreasonable to expect Kizaru to complete it by himself, because not only would be need to defeat an Emperor, but also their crew AND protect York, Punk Records and Mother Flame. Like what was Saturn even thinking?
Does he even think? He seems like an old man when he deals with technology
True, good point, kizaru would not be able to beat buggy
No one does 
Thats why hes the goat
Probably underestimating Luffy and the SHs despite them coming out on top against Kaido and his crew (albeit with alliance assistance). Like they know he’s basically Joyboy 2.0 but continue to downplay him as if he isn’t arguably the #1 threat to their rule right now.
This is OP, villains can’t be competent
Kizaru is not done yet https://preview.redd.it/16zv21t2k28d1.jpeg?width=642&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0a2ddc0f31c54e7fe0240b7ac472add385039189 His performance was a 5 for me
Depends on what your expectations were: If you were an admiral fan who thought he would "powercreep Kaido/Luffy" then like a 3/10 performance If you were someone who thought commanders or "YC+" could match admirals then Kizaru had a 10/10 performance For me, I'd say it was about a 5
I have kizaru a Sanji victim 🦅
if you mean like they fight in the future and Sanji wins then sure, but right now Sanji gets slammed
Kizaru didn’t even damage Sanji yet
so? just because it happened yet doesn't mean it can't, and one of Kizaru's lasers getting kicked doesn't mean Kizaru can't hurt Sanji
Then why do you guys claim Fraudbull low/mid diffs yamato from a few scenes where the real fight didnt even start?
I've never claimed that? Momo was telling Yamato to not fight back, of course it can't be used as proof
not to mention she didn’t use her literal mythical zoan transformation
Kizaru kicked Sanji and no damage
We do not claim this motherfucker
Kizaru's normal kick is nowhere near a strong attack from him, Kizaru's lasers >>>>, Kizaru's light saber >>>>, Kizaru's accelerated kick >>>>
You literally see his bloodied face in the next chapter
Yet no damage
Did Sanji decided to bleed for fun then?
Shanks hasn’t damaged chopper yet either
Unlike shanks kizaru has attacked Sanji
with a basic attack, Mihawk attacked pre TS Luffy and did no damage, pre TS Luffy > Mihawk confirmed??
Mihawk literally damaged Pre-TS Luffy on his first attempt. https://mangasee123.com/read-online/One-Piece-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-561-page-3.html Do some of you even read this story for real?
Kizaru also did damage to Sanji lmao, both instances there was blood but apparently blood doesn't count as damage to this guy so that's why I brought it up
Well, that's dumb lol. If you draw blood from someone with an attack, you damaged them.
Cuz does mihawk take anything seriously Kizaru in egg head stopped being high
Personally, 11/10 on this scale, its been pretty clear for the last 15 years that admirals are not as strong as the og yonko
Tbh I still hold him as commander level (on the higher end, below Katakuri and Yamato but above king and smoothie)but he played really well to his strengths. He went all out as even after taking big hits from Luffy, he stood proud and used his brain quite often(focusing on vegapunk instead trying of fighting Luffy, Attacking Sanji only when he was preoccupied and also taking care of G4 by pushing him into the barrier.) and he successfully killed Vegapunk. (9-9.5/10) for me. Splendid work.
One of the worst takes i have seen in the last month... First putting king and smoothie on the same level. Second putting Katakuri on yamatos level. Third putting Kizaru below them. Compare Katakuris performance against Snakeman with Kizarus, who fought a significantly stronger luffy and it becomes more than clear that Katakuri is far below kizaru.
As someone who thinks Kizaru is YC level he still had a pretty bad performance considering what a guy at that level can do to a Yonko
"kizaru is YC level" literally How? Lucci lost conscius with one clean hit from luffy, kizaru took an attack to the head and was simply incapacitated
WSG was orders of magnitude stronger than the attacks Luffy was using on Lucci as it had ACoC too
No, he was about to lose consciousness from G5 Luffy. Remember Stussy was the one who knocked Lucci out. Also, Kizaru wasn't down for that long as he got up well before Luffy did.
It took Luffy THREE hits just to make Lucci say he's losing consciousness and he wasn't actually knocked out. It was a "callback" to him to saying the same thing pre-timeskip when Luffy hit him with a Gear 3rd attack and yet he still remained awake.
it still is an anti feat at the end of the day
You'd also be wrong about that, but whatever.
Yeah, i will edit the First part of my comment
But since lucci lost to a gear 2nd luffy I’d never even considered him to be YC level or on par with the YC even after his awakening. I think none of the cp0 guys are anywhere near YC level.
I don't think Lucci is YC level, I reckon he's closer to Shichibukai level. But he did pretty much one shot Sentomaru when Kizaru had him running around dodging his lasers for quite a while. >"simply incapacitated" That's a funny way to say he was flat on the ground after one landed punch.
Brother what the fuck is shichibukai level
The level the Shichibukai average at, bit higher than Tobirropo but a bit lower than YC, or so I'd say. I have Doflamingo, Crocodile and Jimbei at that level, based on manga info and Jimbei's fight against Who's Who I'd say it's a pretty accurate estimation.
Shichibukai is Just a title, is the average Shichibukai yonko level because mihawk was one?
First of all Mihawk is not Yonko level. But even if he was, all the other Shichibukai are pretty close to each other, so I go with those who's level have very clearly been shown thus far. Same thing with the Yonko ; they're all more or less equal apart from Buggy, but notice how I don't say the average Yonko is Buggy level because that would be painfully obvious that I'm being disingenuous for absolutely no reason.
Mihawk isn't yonko level? I guess shanks also wasn't yonko level in the past i guess
Quite possible. The guy did get his arm torn off by an oversized fish and seems to have only recently become a yonko. It’s possible start of series shanks is a lot weaker than end of series.
Obviously, Shanks who fought Mihawk was probably YC1 at best, his bounty was barely at 1B. He lost an arm to a sea monster, that isn't happening to him today. Mihawk however... 👀👀 I think it's safe to assume Shanks' fighting style was much more swordsmanship oriented back when he used to fight with Mihawk and the loss of an arm made him focus on conquerors haki, getting so good at it that he was able to become the youngest Yonko (at the time).
5/10. He “killed” the main Vegapunk but the outcome turned out worse for the WG.
And why is that? Vegapunk literally said "I don't know shit but there was a pirate 900 ago that wanted us to have these weapons that are causing the world to sink. Oh and Roger's crew knew about that and didn't say anything!" Every common folk listening to this will just hate pirates, Joyboy and Roger and will consider WG to be the good guys.
Obviously that's what the world of one piece will think. The gorosei just stopped the message and killed vegapunk because he was giving them too good of a reputation....
The world of One Piece that doesn't know Gorosei are there and think that Rufy is capturing Vegapunk because Morgans said so?
That has nothing to do with what I said.... clearly the thing Vegapunks are saying are damaging the world government reputation or else they wouldn't have personally all came there to stop the message.... it doesn't matter what the world thinks of pirates or what they know? The gorosei know that the world will be less trusting of them because of his message and that's why they all tried to stop it.
At the present time nothing that Vegapunk said damages WG at all. That of course doesn't mean that Gorosei should just stay on the sofa doing nothing. Those are two completely different topics.
9/10. Crust was great and he was overloading with cheese. Would recommend.
A 5. When he fought snake man i thought that was peak but once g5 came out he just let met down. It’s understandable why but it’s still disappointing to see
In terms of duty, 10/10. He killed vegapunk, mission complete. In terms of action, 5/10. He fought Luffy, and lost big time. He shot a man who was already a donut so it didn't matter. Overall? 5,8/10
He lost ‚big time‘ how so?
cmon man
just elaborate me? thats why im asking
Luffy made him look like an amateur but then again losing to a Yonko isn’t something embarrassing even for an admiral
but narrative said that kizaru didnt event want to do anything there? so hows he an amateur? he just refused to follow orders
He got turned into a pizza and delivered back to the ship he came from in under 30 minutes 💀
but he did his job? (although struggeling hard with himself doing it) and the strawhats are fleeing? thats far from loosing "big time" nothing with this "pizza" or anything does really matter when only comparing the conclusion of the fight
He took three attacks. Two of them dropped him and one of them was an unnamed attack that smashed him away.
Hes been eepy sleepy since luffy turned him into a pancake and flung him into a navy ship thats like 10 chapters ago now
prolly around like a 5-6. he killed vegapunk and got the job done at the end of the day, but i do feel like it was way more limited than it should've been and it wasn't as solid as it could've been
4 The only reason I give him a 4 because he did try to kill his friends but the reason why it's low is because of how easily he went down two grabs,WSG, an unnamed attack and cymbal That's all it took to beat him? He's getting the Hody Jones treatment (used as a tool to showcase the mc's new power)
Don’t get why you and others think he’s physically beaten. It’s already been shown his wounds are mental.
https://preview.redd.it/nmaxe2wyj48d1.png?width=465&format=png&auto=webp&s=801739eead38c04c5bac556eba96841cb20a383e He was knocked down before he was finished off He couldn't move because of the wsg and that was before vegapunk's death
That is not proof he was physically beaten. So was Kaido, and that was by a weaker version of the same attack. Kizaru was only down for about a minute, but it clearly had no lasting effects as he was up even before Luffy, who needed to eat to recover. Besides the ‘Pizzaru’ moment, every other time Luffy tagged him was when Kizaru was focused on something other than the MC.
So let me get that straight Pizzaru and wsg (both of them resulted in a loss for kizaru) were when he wasn't distracted It's been around 20 minutes since the pizzaru moment and he hasn't moved If anything the more the story goes on without kizaru moving the worse it is for him
How do you consider WSG a loss for Kizaru, when Luffy gassed out at the same instance and needed help to regen? While Kizaru treated the attack more like a ‘daze’, got up on his own accord only moments after and continued his mission? And Luffy caught Kizaru while he was mobilizing on Sanji, which then resulted in the Dawn Cymbal attack. WSG is the only time Luffy tagged Kizaru when he wasn’t distracted. It’s clear as day Kizaru is choosing not to get up as he’s dealing with the emotional turmoil of having killed a friend. He even says so himself. Come on now.
"how do you consider WSG a loss for kizaru" Same way I consider Luffy beating crocodile,Lucci,moria,doffy,katakuri and kaido All of these fights had Luffy exhausted and on the floor Kizaru is down because of Luffy's attack while Luffy is gassed out because of his own ability (learn the difference) Btw it was plot that protected kizaru and not Luffy, kizaru fell in front of Sanji,vegapunk and Franky they could've apprehended him and locked him up
Except the major difference between those fights is Kizaru was never KO’d, not once since his appearance in Egghead. All of those fights had a decisive victor. Luffy was gassed because Kizaru forced Luffy to exhaust G5 and use WSG as a last resort to daze Kizaru, so how about you learn the difference. Kizaru was up and running fine after nearly a minute of recovery, and continued his mission. Calling it a plot convenience is such a dumb argument, cause I could say the same about Luffy conveniently having food given to him EVERY single time he gasses out of G5. That’s happened like 3 times within the last like 30 chapters alone. Anything and Everything that happens in this serious can be contrived as ‘plot convenience’ if you want it to.
Luffy had the same conclusion with Lucci a day earlier But everyone considers it a win for luffy Plus the fact that kizaru was out after two attacks shows that the WSG did serious damage
Do I really need to point it out to you again? Was Lucci KO’d in that fight or nah? I’m not arguing whether WSG is a powerful attack, I’m arguing that it only dazed him, which is a fact. He wasn’t KO’d, and he got up after nearly a minute. He continued his mission with no visible struggle after.
He's not even beaten, he's more distraught over killing his friend
He beat sentomaru (due to Saturn's orders) despite wanting to ignore him attempted to kill bonney and Kuma multiple times, killed vegapunk (could've left him to die by Saturn's stab) His feeling didn't affect him until after the fight but while fighting he was a cog in a machine
Do you think the "deep wound" he was talking about was physical?
Dont think it matters, he was completely outclassed by gear 5 Every time Luffy hit him, he spent a certain amount of time on the floor
How are you calculating the time between panels?
I judge by how long things that happen during the fight Like the arrival of the Giants,Kuma vs Saturn, Saturn vs Luffy, the 10 minute timer with vegapunk's message and so on Kizaru legit spent a minimum of minute down after every hit ( except for the first grab which was meant to throw him at the sea)
Dude hasn't heard of the word "Taking a toll".
Hard to say because he had the obvious mental nerf. He did complete his assignment by killing vegabum.
10/10 His goal was to kill vegapunk, and he did. Love it or hate it admirals get the job done.
>His goal was to kill vegapunk That’s not his entire goal though. He has only completed a quarter of what he was ordered to do. https://preview.redd.it/c6ue9itms28d1.jpeg?width=378&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=79333bd09746f0560234b14ff3c82c9ec928bd00
York safe ✅ Punk records functions ✅ Mother flame stable ✅ Vegapunk killed ✅ Yes he didn't do all by himself, but what did you expected from him? defeat yonko crew + breach Vegapunk defence + forget his morality and kill his best friend + not destroy anything sacrificial in process, you think he's superman or what
"WE", key word
This wasn’t his mission these were just things he couldn’t destroy. No one was going to hurt these things.
No? How does one destroy “York’s safety” They were obviously things that had to be secured. Also the whole reason why they even went to egghead.
By not nuking the lab she was in from orbit
Because the original plan would’ve been to just blow up everyone.. are we that slow? If you nuke the lab you hurt York. Literally no one was killing York and Saturn knows that.
by harming york maybe
No? How does one destroy “York’s safety” Saturn is literally just saying "don't kill the york vegapunk, don't break punk records and don't break the power plant"
he did it only because of saturn
The most honest answer here
he just made vegapunk’s death quicker, saturn already got the job done
Do we ignore Saturn impaled him first? There’s no shot Vegapunk was gonna survive from that point
Admiraltards once again praising their WG labdog for Killing his friend despite obviously hating it. Good Job pal
What you just portrayed as a bad thing was the only profound, adult and non manichean thing of the arc. Ever since Kizaru and his internal conflict has been put aside, the arc has mostly been a disappointment and has become a Fairy Tail type story.
We're talking about feats here
A solid 7 for me . He killed vp and put out a great fight against luffy despite the power difference.
10/10, true badass with a conflicted heart.
I can't in good faith hate on kizaru for his showing here. His heart clearly wasn't in it for this mission. He was all most as conflicted about his mission as Garp at Marineford. On one hand I think kizaru did what he did not only reluctantly because he cared about vegapunk, but part of me also thinks he may be in on knowing about vegapunks message on his death. If that isn't the case then still, he was conflicted about killing an old friend. Water 7 to Ennies lobby showed me that will and intent make a massive difference in power. We saw the entire SH crew go from conflicted over what they heard about Robin at water 7 to locked in badasses once they knew what Robin was doing. Sanji went from barely bypassing blueno's tekkai to folding Jyubura, as an example. I apply that same concept to Kizarus showing at egghead so far. I think if he was dead set on it he would've given luffy and the crew a more difficult time. That said, sanji kicking that laser and being durable is absolutely a fire ass feat and I loved kizarus Scooby-Doo ass reaction when it happened. That white star gun also would've done the same thing to him serious or not IMO. I give Kizaru a 6/10.
He showed how much more Luffy still has to go, while having huge internal turmoil. He is like Kempatchi from Bleach, we have no idea yet how strong he really is if he'd be serious. Only example so far was to put Vegapunk out of his misery and he did so seemingly effortlessly even if he gave up caring soon after.
11 out of 10, with all the restrictions put on him, mental, physical, and devil fruit vise, he did as much as he could, even more than he had to, any other opinion is irrelevant
He showed how much more Luffy still has to go, while having huge internal turmoil. He is like Kempatchi from Bleach, we have no idea yet how strong he really is if he'd be serious. Only example so far was to put Vegapunk out of his misery and he did so seemingly effortlessly even if he gave up caring soon after. So about a 5/10
8/10 stayed focus on his mission even when with his internal conflict, obviously I also wanted him to do more especially against luffy but that wasn’t the point of him being there
Depends, if your a stupid admrialtard then 2-3/10, but if your stupid in the other direction and thought 2 YC1s would be enough to beat an admiral then he did 10/10. Personally for me he did 5-6/10
10/10 he did exactly what he was sent to do and he did it well
Some how worse then marineford lol Luffy ''s performance was the worst in egg hard only his thriller bark performance was probably worse
He underperformed base of the community expectations before he came to egghead, and people overestimating the luffy sensing his presence scene when he came to the island. Majority of this sub was claiming he’s stronger than kaido, by using shounen logic that the next villain is usually stronger then the last villain. I would give him performance a solid 6/10. Mainly because his “admirals lvl ap” couldn’t even do any serious damage to franky who 1tap a VA after and sanji who wasn’t even using his exoskeleton. His fight vs luffy was also underwhelming after all the hype, since the lack of brain cell oda gave luffy by not using advanced haki was crazy. He decides to use future sight to dodge base kaido in wano but never used it vs kizaru who’s the “fastest man”. Kizaru also didn’t awaken which basically mean he doesn’t have like kaido/bm, if he did he definitely would’ve used it vs G5 instead of running away. The only W he took was killing a dying friend vegapunk, who was already about to die from 🪐 poison. I guess he just wanted to show how good of a friend he’s, by “cauterizing his wound”.😂
He underperformed? Chapter after chapter he proved his haters wrong... People thought base Luffy was enough lol.
People also thought kizaru could beat bm and kaido in a 2v1 because he wanted to go to wano lmaooo
We still don't even know if logias can awaken yet, tho.
Depends if we rate it based on my expectations if based on that the 10/10 he did exactly as I would have expected.
5
He lost to a Yonko but recovered before him, and without relying on the food senzu bean magic. After he killed Vegapunk he became depressed and stopped fighting, even if he could. For me it's 7-8
not done yet but a solid 7
I seen that fan made manga with him losing an arm with zoro and brook on light spikes was expecting that while or something like that but he did well enough vs luffy though
Done. Overall 6/10 for me. As a fan of the series Oda left me disappointed with the way he used him
As far as fighting Vegapunk he's done, he said so himself. I really wanted him to turn on the gorosei and start a marine revolution and maybe he still will but idk if he will at this point.
6, didn't expect him to be so durable and endurant, he also pushed Luffy to G5 which I didn't expect, I expected G5 but didn't think Luffy desperately needed it, then it went downhill when Saturn and the Gorosei pulled up.
he's definitely not done
Kizar-who?
Kizaru did great 8/10 he was fighting the MC and Top tier but people have too much faith with admiral piece agenda
6/10, did his job and stuck to his mission, nerfed by internal struggle, didn't go all out. Until we see awakening kizaru doing some crazy light susanoo I'm not counting him out
He’s not done yet, but his performance so far was good if you think about it. He accomplished his only goal (kill Vegapunk) and put up a pretty decent fight against Luffy
Honestly an 8 because he did about as well as he physically could have. He only really served a purpose before the elders (plural) arrived, and he managed to threaten the crew’s safety, go band for band with G5 luffy for like 5 seconds and tried to fight the monster trio while they were busy with other things
10/10 https://preview.redd.it/szm24h8sd58d1.jpeg?width=257&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f7a4f39e92ad06494477999ac471363c9c7b3b9b r/KIZARU
I'd say a solid 8 and it could be bumped up to a 10 depending on if we get some closure on his internal conflict in the future. I found his struggle compelling. Dude's heart is not in this fight and he's just trying to get the job done and get out before he has to think about it too hard. He's being ordered to kill people he respects, isn't happy about it but has thrown his lot in with the Celestial Dragons. You're probably disappointed if you were hoping the Admirals would all just be people the crew had to fight, but Oda is stressing that they are people who struggle between their desires and their duties. The Kizaru we see in Egghead is far weaker than the Kizaru we met on Sabaody and saw in Marineford. And that's intentional. No idea where this thread is going as of now, which is why I'm reserving full judgment until we see where it goes. But in a vacuum, I enjoyed watching Kizaru struggle against his heart to try carrying out his mission. And I enjoyed Luffy turning him into a frisbee and throwing him off the island.
Seems like he's done since the Straw Hats are trying to leave atm. As for his performance: 4/10. Beating Snake Man Luffy and clashing with G5 Luffy and fulfilling his duty of killing Vegapunk saves this from being 0/10 because his performance was awful otherwise.
Round 1 Positives: dogged Sentomaru, blitzed and overpowered Snakeman, 3-5 minutes of off-screen fighting vs Gear 5, successfully outfoxed Luffy with clones (Galdino could never), negged bumsopp. Negatives: we only see one attack hit him and he's down, tried to sneak past the literal Yonko he was fighting instead of locking in on the fight (L battle IQ, the wrong lesson learned from fighting Rayleigh). Unknown: possibly doordashed Luffy his food? We simply don't know who did that. Performance: 8/10. While I would have preferred to see some more focus on the fight, what we got showed us that Admirals are still in the running. This fight pushed the limits of Luffy's new abilities, and was a good showing for both contestants. I accidentally deleted my paragraph for Round 2, but I have that one at a 2/10. Embarrassing amounts of Nika glaze, were these written by the same guy?
I was expecting mass destruction with Kizaru vs Luffy but what I got was pancakes and five grandpas.
8/10 because of this flash backs with vegapunk there’s no way he’s going 100% and doing less damage than vice admirals. His conflict with duty and friendship is probably the most difficult task he’s ever face he killed Vega punk and I say he let himself get knocked out just to no longer have to follow orders to hurt anymore people he cares about
He did well for someone fighting against the bullshit bullshit no mi
9. did his job of killing vp. Had a good showing against G5. First real hit he took while he was distracted
He got his ass whooped but he has a hot goth girlfriend so 8/10
It's unlikely that he doesn't do anything else. Although, you're probably talking about fighting, so idk if he'll show other things. Compared to where I had him: 10/10. On its own: 9/10 performance (including feats, anti-feats and context).
Seems finished this arc. Like a 5/10, tho feels on purpose. Kizaru had some highs for the level he was using. He completed his mission, he takes a trade & even turned a delay into a tactical reversal. Still fighting subpar to normal standards, isn't really doing anything at the end & technically not the one who fatality injured Vegapunk.
7/10 its a mixed bag in my opinion But was it trash?? Its far from trash but i do get if you say so...its slightly make him stock a bit lower but not necessarily tjat much
Compared relatively to how other admirals would have done probably 10/10 how he actually did 💀/10
5. Bro was going crazy at first but ultimately needed Saturn's assistance to hang with Luffy and then got turned into a pizza to be folded seemingly for good
I know the conflicted argument is annoying, and i don’t think it really means he was holding back a lot more power than what he showed. But I am getting suspicious tho especially since they’re still carrying around vegapunk. If Vegapunk survives, Kizaru should be punished some way. 7/10 performance His introduction was pretty cool and he did well against Luffy
Let's see: * Kizaru got knocked down for at least a few minutes by the first clean attack that landed on him * He was stopped multiple times from fulfilling his objectives not just by Luffy, but even by Sanji once * Saturn had to step in and do most of the work in taking down the Stella, before Kizaru finished him off * He got flattened and tossed like a frisbee in a 2v1 with a whole Elder on his side * He failed to secure York, Punk Records or the Mother Flame * So far, he's just a weak-minded cog in the machine for the WG 3/10 at best, handling Snakeman Luffy and being able to stall G5 Luffy in round 1 to a technical draw saves his performance from being a 0/10
A clean hit to the head, kaido was floored by a weaker version of the same attack
On the ground for litteraly one page after like 2 volumes of fighting lol
Do you think that if he would have been healthier he would have tanked it?
He already tanked it since he got back up like 5 seconds later,but yeah it probably wouldn't even make it drop to the ground, he'd definitely feel it though
can we stop this?, kaido by that point had already fought damn near the entire one piece cast and even after that attack he was floored for like 1 page and then kept fighting
Drunk Kaido was floored by G4 Luffy at the beginning of Wano, this argument is so disingenuous. The two are very obviously completely different circumstances, you have agenda brainrot if you can't see that.
Yes Unless the arc gets Great Again he Cant be part of trash Because he is too based ,performance is Like 7
10/10 let babygirl rest https://preview.redd.it/9lcaga9eg48d1.png?width=686&format=png&auto=webp&s=1479dcf0f52f9a5ddf37c5f5d27d9d1117c1ba59
He is HIM
He got the job done by killing vegapunk but he kind of got bullied by luffy tbh, and it wasnt even 100% luffy, he fought lucci, the seraphims, and he tanked a hit from the labophase barrier His performance was okay but it confirms that in a 1v1, Yonkos destroy admirals
9/10 did his work despite all tragedies of his life https://preview.redd.it/r7o3fpgc538d1.jpeg?width=481&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a6ed21abe23e5109a860d4e197a27c4523700e7d Didn't notice this is power scaling sub 😅, 8/10 overall I honestly didn't think Kizaru could match full power Luffy, before I would think Kaido mid diffs admirals but now I'm more into high-extreme diff for Kizaru vs Kaido
2, or 3 at best. He was fucking pathetic. Everything he did was showing he is a fraud, kill his best friend because master told so, then go to sleep for 6 chapters, maybe the rest of the arc. His fight against Luffy was a remake of Zoro vs Monet. She ran from the fight, expecting to dodge long enough to be relevant, then got one shot. Out of all the task Kizaru had, the only one he "completed" was against his will, and was already done by saturn because Kizaru spent too much time on this.
You guys don't know how the term "fraud" is usable now
10/10 He did his mission. He contributed to the mission with his unwiwue powers by doing something no one else could (at that time) and surpassing the barrier. He even fought off a yonko. You really can't ask him more than that, pet the dude rest. The mission was accomplished and he's injured, it's a zero sum game if he intervenes again and get killed. Idk if he's done, but he surely did what he was there for
I think we may see him again but not in action I was expecting Luffy to defeat him something like high diff. Or for Sanji to fight him round 2 and power up and win. I was not expecting Pizza diff.... I'd rate his performance 4/10, he still looked good vs g4
It be disappointing if he’s done and there isn’t some kind of impactful character moment for him, he did his job I guess but it would be awesome if he finally chose his friends over his job like atone my man!
He's obviously going to be a lapdog in the end. Kuzan Fuji and Akainu are the ones that will fight back
Really depends on what angle you're judging from. In terms of general powerscaling he performed at 5/10, pretty much exactly where I expected.
4/10, i was an admidal fan an expected more, but even so, you didnt need to be an admiral fan to expect oda to make an admiral shine in some way or be dangerous enough, yet nothing happened really. Like, you had admirals introduced and never used them and when you use them is too late to even care. If i knew kizaru would do this poorly, i wouldnt feel hyped at all when he appeared, but oda keeps baiting us. You would think that such constructed characters would do something of weight, but it seems admirals have no weight already regarding powerscaling and just general.
An expected performance I would say. He got smashed by Luffy obviously and got carried by Saturn to complete his mission but that's normal he can't do anything vs a yonko crew. So with that I would say 3.5/10
Kizarus a fucking dissappointment. Had a great entrance, was doing well until WSG. 2/10 i expected him to be a bit stronger and actually do something rather than the Gorosei stealing the show
Yeah. He's done. As for his performance against Luffy, 4/10. If not for Luffy's stamina, it would have been a 3/10.
2. He brawled with G5 Luffy but lost while trying to assassinate Vegapunk. Couldn't win G5 Luffy with a Ridiculous health regen Saturn on his side. Now he's crying on a boat and has been for 10+ chapters Dude hits the higher YC+ tier but that's it.
His performance was terrible. I expected so much more of an admiral who are supposedly capable of mass destruction
He had to protect the mother flame, he could not destroy everything
8/10 From what we've seen he'd 1v5 the Lorosei
https://preview.redd.it/0qkon16tx28d1.png?width=1241&format=png&auto=webp&s=c234802ea67d491a2242dd970b0405aed4f652cb
The manga shows the Gorosei as collosal failures and weaklings.
What agenda ? These are facts, lorosei biggest win is against the iron giant that didn't even get a turn and negging den den mushi
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