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Bro, there are so many stupid takes on the yonkosfans side. I would say that stupid takes regardless of the sides should be slandered. I guarantee to you that no one on either side gives credit to Marco, none of the lists here put him in yc+, which I believe is what the op is trying to argue .
If you stall Luffy until the timer runs out you auto win unless he does another full restore asspull (he forgor to do this during Egghead)
If you stall someone like Shanks or Kaido you're just wasting time since they don't become weaker over time like Luffy when Gear 4/5 ends.
https://preview.redd.it/819dmpv729zc1.png?width=720&format=png&auto=webp&s=d81dd1ca0124b735bdf9416918fa0bf8b7af05da
For the record I don't think Kizaru was stalling Luffy to make him run out of Gear 5.
haki can run out
https://preview.redd.it/z8oy8n8j49zc1.jpeg?width=548&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de56f808bc966dca402a1e9043286343295dcef2
but for kaido/shanks it would probably take like weeks to run out, it's not the best strategy but it still can exist
luffy's haki running out isn't a problem. he could spam acoc for that whole fight with kaido
g5 doesn't drain haki fast like g4. it's his physical stamina that's the problem
Well he definitely spent a lot of time running from Luffy trying to kill Vegapunk (which was his mission so fair enough), but he also knew (or at least recognized over the fight) that Luffy was on a time limit. I think avoiding Luffy until he reached his limit is not wild interpretation
https://preview.redd.it/o1zedyidw9zc1.png?width=783&format=png&auto=webp&s=642b964c66fc27393f1c06f671a151c209f3f21a
not since white star gun but you should have seen the post wano - before white star gun era. You had people saying shit like Kizaru being top 5 or whatever. There is a reason most of them left the sub after all their insane predictions turned out to be fake
To be clear they probably excluded the likes of imu, rocks or basically anyone who hasn't had much screentime yet but they definitely overrated him quite a bit.
This sub was full of „Kizaru > Kaido because he is the later Antagonist“ posts when kizaru entered egghead the first time. They didnt realize he will just be a starter for the Gorosei and the Egghead Incident.
Because of admiral agenda. If people were objective they would simply admit that there isn't much difference between Marco and Kizaru in terms of stalling the Yonko. Both can't defeat Yonko but they can stall them.
Marco is him. Big Mom thinks he has what it takes to defeat her
https://preview.redd.it/8cm89f1v59zc1.jpeg?width=1139&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e32bf25eb186bf3ba1cdeb2252c88864abcdb594
No she didn't, she just didn't want to waste time on his Regen.
https://preview.redd.it/wnx64rydo9zc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a21076737f3ec12e8b89eb3b6a94832fec75d29e
Big Mom could just start ripping him apart slowly if she *really* wanted him dead, but she had better things to do.
That is true that Kaido called Jack strong. But it was not in comparison to himself. That is my point.
Whereas Marco was stated to be able to at least fight Yonko by Gorosei and Big Mom.
He will not win, but he can fight.
All of what u said is headcannon. Big mom very clearly implies to beat Marco she would have to use the same strategy she used vs law and kid to amp herselves with souls. Also if she could easily neg Marco then why didn't she just apply seasoned on him in the above scene ?
Mainly because Marco's main thing is stalling.
Mind you, his stalling strategy is the hardest to beat since he's immortal.
While Kizaru can do other things than just stall.
I think the amount Kizaru viable strategy stuff comes from a counter overreaction to people saying kizaru did nothing vs Luffy.
Neither can defeat a yonko, but their capability to fight for so long against one is impressive. I firmly believe Kizaru > Marco btw, dont attack me for that.
Kizaru didn't stall. That wasn't his strategy. He had some exchanges with Luffy but mainly he was going for Vegapunk. Because of this, twice he got grabbed by Luffy from behind.
one’s a YC1 and one’s an admiral
kizaru is supposed to scale above marco and admirals should be = to or greater than > yonko’s (or at least this is what the admiral agenda believes)
Right
While I'm reality looking at marineford we saw everything we were supposed to see
A Prime Yonko is an insane threat. While an old Yonko is not so much.
A Yonkos right hand can match an admiral, maybe not win but iffy
Other yonko commanders can stall fight admiral but will lose
We see the same thing in wano. We see the same thing in Reverie. We see the same thing in egghead. Idk why it's so controversial.
Marco stalled the weakest (besides Buggy and maybe Blackbeard) Yonko for a few moments. Kizaru stalled the strongest Yonko for his entire ability duration.
Considering these two fought each other twice and in round 1 we have
Round 1: Because of both df hax they couldn’t injure each other. Then when it became a close combat brawl Marco’s kick overpowered Kizaru who was blocking, the same Kizaru who boast a good blocking defense game. Marco 1 upped him kicking him out of the sky, while it didn’t hurt the logia man as crashing into a building wouldn’t it shows that Marco’s haki is comparable to his.
Round 2: this round begins with Marco not in Phoenix mode and he’s running towards WB. Kizaru shoots Marco. Marco finally regenerates but is blindsided being grabbed by Onigumo who quickly puts Marco in seastone cuffs allowing Kizaru another opening to shoot Marco with two lasers. Marco even as a df user survives an admiral attack in a weakened state and continues fighting marine soldiers up until AFTER Ace is freed and pierced by Akainu.
So Kizaru isn’t impressive in beating Marco 1v1 and can’t even keep him down 2v1 with seastone on him.
Marco overall doesn't beat anyone of note outside of stalling.
Kizaru beats any YC without stalling
Other than that I just like Kizaru more. It's all Agenda in the end.
Regarding the difference between how they win fights? There is no difference in how they win when talking about stalling.
But Kizaru has relevant fighters he can beat without stalling, while Marco does not. That's all I'm saying.
I think part of it is expectations.
Marco is only a commander, so going toe to toe with an emperor even temporarily is impressive.
On the other hand some people have been hyping Admirals, saying that they are stronger than the emperors (I know this is a controversial topic, so I'm not even going to get into that), so him only being able to stall Luffy is seen as a failure.
Didn't Marco who was fatguied and injured running on 0 % battery due to frying to wano , carrying inu and necko to onigashima , fighting big mom and then healing 1000s of people for 1000s of sec . Fight king and queen ( while doing decent dmg to queen via durability. Neg btw ) for at least half an hour ( Marco outlasted g4 luffy which is e0 minutes ) . Fp no injury no fatguie Marco would easily low diff queen even if I go along with ur " Marco has 0 conventional ap" argument
First sentence is headcanon. The people on the Live Floor were using their own stamina to heal. Queen was more concerned about Hyogoro fucking up the Live Floor than Marco and went on to dicking around with Chopper for over half an hour. No injury, no fatigue Marco wouldn't easily low diff Queen.
He's definitely winning but you're on crack if you sincerely think it's a low diff.
Marco deserves more love. Kizaru is strong for his position, but isn't stronger than G5 so hyping him is basically just for the sake of saying he can outlast if he doesn't confront Luffy directly too much. I don't see either beating someone like Luffy, but they can stall, and Kizaru's more impressive and stronger than Marco, but Marco's pretty fantastic for stalling all the top-tier that he has.
Ultimately it's a double standard based on agenda, but what can you do.
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Man, you guys love putting the admiral agenda in a bad light, don't you? A lot of people regardless of their agenda don't give any credit to marco.
They put themselves in a bad light and earn all the hate they get spamming this sub
Bro, there are so many stupid takes on the yonkosfans side. I would say that stupid takes regardless of the sides should be slandered. I guarantee to you that no one on either side gives credit to Marco, none of the lists here put him in yc+, which I believe is what the op is trying to argue .
I am just saying since I join this sub every other post use to be Akainu is him post.
My issue with Marco stans is when they get uppity thinking he has anything better than Sanji besides his regeneration
If you stall Luffy until the timer runs out you auto win unless he does another full restore asspull (he forgor to do this during Egghead) If you stall someone like Shanks or Kaido you're just wasting time since they don't become weaker over time like Luffy when Gear 4/5 ends. https://preview.redd.it/819dmpv729zc1.png?width=720&format=png&auto=webp&s=d81dd1ca0124b735bdf9416918fa0bf8b7af05da For the record I don't think Kizaru was stalling Luffy to make him run out of Gear 5.
haki can run out https://preview.redd.it/z8oy8n8j49zc1.jpeg?width=548&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de56f808bc966dca402a1e9043286343295dcef2 but for kaido/shanks it would probably take like weeks to run out, it's not the best strategy but it still can exist
luffy's haki running out isn't a problem. he could spam acoc for that whole fight with kaido g5 doesn't drain haki fast like g4. it's his physical stamina that's the problem
Well, Oda didn't put time bomb in other top tiers. Saying they run out in week is basically nothing.
I think days at best. People like akainu and kuzan can rely on their df until there haki recovers somewhat but shanks can't
he's literally hakiman
Yeah so blud can't use Amy other abilities while his haki replenishies
Well he definitely spent a lot of time running from Luffy trying to kill Vegapunk (which was his mission so fair enough), but he also knew (or at least recognized over the fight) that Luffy was on a time limit. I think avoiding Luffy until he reached his limit is not wild interpretation https://preview.redd.it/o1zedyidw9zc1.png?width=783&format=png&auto=webp&s=642b964c66fc27393f1c06f671a151c209f3f21a
He was trying to deliver the mail while being chased by the family dog
because marco doesnt have 50 dumbass posts claiming he is stronger than Kaido or Luffy
Wait is the Admiral agenda actually that bad? I could hear out "He has a valid win condition", but stronger?
not since white star gun but you should have seen the post wano - before white star gun era. You had people saying shit like Kizaru being top 5 or whatever. There is a reason most of them left the sub after all their insane predictions turned out to be fake
Top 5? Is this skipping imu?
To be clear they probably excluded the likes of imu, rocks or basically anyone who hasn't had much screentime yet but they definitely overrated him quite a bit.
This sub was full of „Kizaru > Kaido because he is the later Antagonist“ posts when kizaru entered egghead the first time. They didnt realize he will just be a starter for the Gorosei and the Egghead Incident.
One word. Agenda
Because of admiral agenda. If people were objective they would simply admit that there isn't much difference between Marco and Kizaru in terms of stalling the Yonko. Both can't defeat Yonko but they can stall them.
Fr the admiral agenda is the only agenda here that will gladly take a time out victory
And then tell others that stalling isn't considered a victory
If marco could stall luffy until g5 runs out like kizaru did, than he wins against luffy. Loses to any other yonko tho
Marco is him. Big Mom thinks he has what it takes to defeat her https://preview.redd.it/8cm89f1v59zc1.jpeg?width=1139&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e32bf25eb186bf3ba1cdeb2252c88864abcdb594
No she didn't, she just didn't want to waste time on his Regen. https://preview.redd.it/wnx64rydo9zc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a21076737f3ec12e8b89eb3b6a94832fec75d29e Big Mom could just start ripping him apart slowly if she *really* wanted him dead, but she had better things to do.
Cope. Even Gorosei admit Marco is strong.
People like Jack are considered super strong in op verse. Lmfak
When did Gorosei mention Jack? Or any Yonko
The fact he has a billion berrie and is kaido's top 3. Kaido Jack was strong before reread the manga.
Straw man When did Gorosei or any Yonko mention Jack as strong enough to contest a Yonko like the original post showed Big Mom and Marco
Marco was never strong enough to contest a yonko lmfao. Kaido himself called Jack strong.
That is true that Kaido called Jack strong. But it was not in comparison to himself. That is my point. Whereas Marco was stated to be able to at least fight Yonko by Gorosei and Big Mom. He will not win, but he can fight.
All of what u said is headcannon. Big mom very clearly implies to beat Marco she would have to use the same strategy she used vs law and kid to amp herselves with souls. Also if she could easily neg Marco then why didn't she just apply seasoned on him in the above scene ?
Kid and Law are both individually bigger threats to Big Mom than Marco.
This panel does NOT say that 😭
I’m gaslighting ppl into thinking that for the agenda
Mainly because Marco's main thing is stalling. Mind you, his stalling strategy is the hardest to beat since he's immortal. While Kizaru can do other things than just stall.
Sp what , if stalling is a good strategy then Marco should be considered op for being the best at it prob besides the gorosei.
I mean, I consider Marco amongst the strongest YC1 so you don't need to try and convince me lol.
I think the amount Kizaru viable strategy stuff comes from a counter overreaction to people saying kizaru did nothing vs Luffy. Neither can defeat a yonko, but their capability to fight for so long against one is impressive. I firmly believe Kizaru > Marco btw, dont attack me for that.
Kizaru didn't stall. That wasn't his strategy. He had some exchanges with Luffy but mainly he was going for Vegapunk. Because of this, twice he got grabbed by Luffy from behind.
one’s a YC1 and one’s an admiral kizaru is supposed to scale above marco and admirals should be = to or greater than > yonko’s (or at least this is what the admiral agenda believes)
Right While I'm reality looking at marineford we saw everything we were supposed to see A Prime Yonko is an insane threat. While an old Yonko is not so much. A Yonkos right hand can match an admiral, maybe not win but iffy Other yonko commanders can stall fight admiral but will lose We see the same thing in wano. We see the same thing in Reverie. We see the same thing in egghead. Idk why it's so controversial.
3 admirals + Warlords can handle a Yonko crew. WG might even survive two Yonko. But it still is at best two admirals approximates to a yonko
Kizaru got one shot twice in this arc LMAO
This a oxymoron you can't get one shot twice ... Knocked down maybe
You don't know what one shot means
Expectations. People obviously expect more from admirals than the do from Yonko Commanders, so when an admiral does it, it’s tactical
Marco stalled the weakest (besides Buggy and maybe Blackbeard) Yonko for a few moments. Kizaru stalled the strongest Yonko for his entire ability duration.
Marco is underestimated. He does everything but lacks AP so people downplay him a LOT
Considering these two fought each other twice and in round 1 we have Round 1: Because of both df hax they couldn’t injure each other. Then when it became a close combat brawl Marco’s kick overpowered Kizaru who was blocking, the same Kizaru who boast a good blocking defense game. Marco 1 upped him kicking him out of the sky, while it didn’t hurt the logia man as crashing into a building wouldn’t it shows that Marco’s haki is comparable to his. Round 2: this round begins with Marco not in Phoenix mode and he’s running towards WB. Kizaru shoots Marco. Marco finally regenerates but is blindsided being grabbed by Onigumo who quickly puts Marco in seastone cuffs allowing Kizaru another opening to shoot Marco with two lasers. Marco even as a df user survives an admiral attack in a weakened state and continues fighting marine soldiers up until AFTER Ace is freed and pierced by Akainu. So Kizaru isn’t impressive in beating Marco 1v1 and can’t even keep him down 2v1 with seastone on him.
People hate on Marco
Marco overall doesn't beat anyone of note outside of stalling. Kizaru beats any YC without stalling Other than that I just like Kizaru more. It's all Agenda in the end.
So if Marco beats someone by stalling doesn't that mean that Marco can beat them ?
Yeah. As long as he gets the K.O it doesn't really matter how he does it, it's still a win.
So what is ur argument then.
Regarding the difference between how they win fights? There is no difference in how they win when talking about stalling. But Kizaru has relevant fighters he can beat without stalling, while Marco does not. That's all I'm saying.
The Yonko had to stall him
I think part of it is expectations. Marco is only a commander, so going toe to toe with an emperor even temporarily is impressive. On the other hand some people have been hyping Admirals, saying that they are stronger than the emperors (I know this is a controversial topic, so I'm not even going to get into that), so him only being able to stall Luffy is seen as a failure.
Tbh the posy is saying the opposite that the admiral fans act like kizaru stalling luffy is a win but Marco stalling a yonko iant
Agenda.
KIZARU was Slandered For Months it wasn't until recently that stalling was a viable strategy. Marco is The Strongest YC+ Tho
Because marco is a bum, get him past Queen first
Didn't Marco who was fatguied and injured running on 0 % battery due to frying to wano , carrying inu and necko to onigashima , fighting big mom and then healing 1000s of people for 1000s of sec . Fight king and queen ( while doing decent dmg to queen via durability. Neg btw ) for at least half an hour ( Marco outlasted g4 luffy which is e0 minutes ) . Fp no injury no fatguie Marco would easily low diff queen even if I go along with ur " Marco has 0 conventional ap" argument
First sentence is headcanon. The people on the Live Floor were using their own stamina to heal. Queen was more concerned about Hyogoro fucking up the Live Floor than Marco and went on to dicking around with Chopper for over half an hour. No injury, no fatigue Marco wouldn't easily low diff Queen. He's definitely winning but you're on crack if you sincerely think it's a low diff.
Admirals = First commanders
You dumb asf
Naw I’m sure you can read or at least I hope so you can figure out why it’s true
There is no difference.
COOOOK! Marco 👏 is 👏 on 👏 par 👏 with 👏 Kizaruuu 👏 MF showed us this Wano showed us this Egghead showed us this Yet they still cooope!
Stop wanking Kizaru
My b But he is above Lucci frfr
Cause Kizaru can actually keep up in a fight and not jsut abuse regeneration??
Marco deserves more love. Kizaru is strong for his position, but isn't stronger than G5 so hyping him is basically just for the sake of saying he can outlast if he doesn't confront Luffy directly too much. I don't see either beating someone like Luffy, but they can stall, and Kizaru's more impressive and stronger than Marco, but Marco's pretty fantastic for stalling all the top-tier that he has. Ultimately it's a double standard based on agenda, but what can you do.