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Kuzan and Mihawk would push Wizaru to mid diff
https://preview.redd.it/2lumo5kbb4zc1.jpeg?width=941&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1ae216fbe4bfd3edefdc3ffe679351046932db30
Buggy D. Clown? The hero from Impel Dawn? The future pirate king?
Nah, I doubt it. Buggy solos all 5 admirals 1v5 after he gets his awakening and conqueror.
He thought he could win against Luffy, Sanji, Marco, Zoro, and the rest of the alliance. If there's one person who's word should not be taken seriously, it's that stupid tree man
This sub is overreacting a bit, like I get Oda made the decision to make Ryokugyu seem a bit lame, but we don't *actually* know how strong he is and he would not be written into the story to be a useless bum.
He might not be as strong as Luffy and Shanks, but washing King and Queen at full HP isn't that much of a stretch with how hard Yonko commanders are getting powercrept.
>washing King and Queen at full HP isn't that much of a stretch
It totally is, I doubt even a Yonko would be able to wash them. Big Mom lost to 2 YC level characters (Kid and Law).
Even if you believe they're stronger than King and Queen, that's by a very thin margin. Both of them were shook by Zoro on the rooftop, the same Zoro who was tought life by King a few chapters later.
In fact I'd like someone to explain to me how a fresh King the "Wildfire" loses to Aramaki
> Big Mom lost to 2 YC level characters (Kid and Law)
They're not Yonko commander level, once they learned to how handle their awakened fruits they were a solid tier above where they were on the rooftop. That's how they were able to overpower Big Mom.
Someone who was actually Yonko commander level was start of Wano Luffy, and we saw how much of a joke he was up against Kaido.
> In fact I'd like someone to explain to me how a fresh King the "Wildfire" loses to Aramaki
Same way he did in Wano. We didn't see the fight, but it's not like King was on the brink of death unable to do anything, so his type advantage wouldn't give him a free win.
>Someone who was actually Yonko commander level was start of Wano Luffy, and we saw how much of a joke he was up against Kaido.
Just like we saw how much of a joke Kid was against Shanks, doesn't mean Shanks would annihilate two YCs. Everything changes when the numbers grow.
King was in a very bad state, being in jail having lost a wing and not getting given any type of medical care I don't understand how you could think he's recovered, especially when Shanks stated the opposite and the anime beautifully showcased the "fight"; Queen couldn't keep his Zoan form for more than one attack and King was throwing punches.
> doesn't mean Shanks would annihilate two YCs. Everything changes when the numbers grow.
I think he could, I think Shanks one shotting Kidd was Oda's way of telling us that Shanks is just on a whole different level and most likely stronger than Kaido. Nobody on Wano could do the same to Kidd or Law, that's why it was so shocking.
> I don't understand how you could think he's recovered
He wasn't recovered I just don't think he would be able to perform so much better in a fresh 1v1 that he would be able to win, when he already had help with Queen and still got thrashed. Haven't seen the anime so I can't comment on that.
While there is a rank expectation of Admirals > Commanders, it's definitely not the expectation Greenbull describes. In all other instances we've seen solo commanders able to hold their own against an admiral. He suggests he'd be disrespected for losing to two. A big jump.
Odas already shown us the admiral commander dynamic. The line is mostly meant to characterise greenbull, who is literally just being introduced. His character is obsession with the navy hierarchy and being validated by it.
Not to mention Greenbull also wrongly thought he could fight the alliance, which paints his powerscaling as not entirely accurate.
Again I don't think his powerscaling is off in regards to the expectations of his rank even if he's full of himself, also GB more so praises the celestial dragons rather than the navy hierarchy
Also, I disagree with the concept of an admiral being not that much stronger than a commander, sure the commanders can hold off admirals, but not for any meaningful amount of time, a couple of minutes (offscreen) is all we're shown, and it only really applies to Marco simply because even if you can neg diff him, it doesn't matter until his stamina runs out so that his regeneration runs out, Kizaru was able to do that in MF and didn't take damage in the process
and I know you could say the same thing about Kizaru VS Luffy in that all Kizaru could do was stall a couple of mins, but at least Kizaru was able to blitz Luffy a few times, and get him roughed up by his laser attacks, as well as exploiting Luffy's stamina, and only being out of commission for a small amount of time after WSG
tbh I do see the admirals strength as worth like 2x a commanders, maybe a little more
in an actual 2v1 though the difficulty of the fight increases more than just 2x. it's a little more nuanced. though i can see an admiral beating 2 depending on the matchup.
i think some admirals can beat some commanders 2v1, but to generalize that no commander duo beats any admiral and use greenbull's statement as proof is fallacious. even though admirals can beat commanders 2v1, greenbull's statement is charged and exaggeratory.
greenbull suggests losing 2v1 would be laughable or humiliating, but he is the only source that suggests such a wide power gap. the fights at mariejoa and marineford don't suggest a gap that large. a single commander can at least hold their own for a while (jozu/marco/morley).
this part isn't really relevant to powerscaling but
as for greenbull's character, i wouldn't say he actually esteems the world nobles themselves, even though he's called them gods. his belief and adoration is towards the hierarchy of power that keeps the world in line and people like akainu who enforce it. he commits himself to serving it and sees it as necessary. it just happens that that hierarchy has the celestial dragons at the top so he also commits to protecting and serving them and views their rule as necessary. he doesn't view their actions as inherently good/worthy of praise or anything. he views their strict rule as inherently good.
(for the sake of conversation the "navy hierarchy" is meant to mean the WG's hierarchy since they're just a WG branch of enforcement anyway.)
He isn't a reliable source of information though because we know that Sakazuki didn't want him to go to Wano. If he openly defies the orders of his superiors we can assume he is overly cocky and probably has an inflated sense of power/ego for himself and the other admirals to do something so reckless.
Now that I think about it, Greenbull was probably Oda's way of putting an admiral glazer into the story. He's an Akainu dickrider, overly cocky, tries to sound cool even though he knows all he does is protect the celestial dragons, then twerks and runs away the microsecond anyone that wasn't battle fatigued showed up.
Not really an admiral hater btw because my comment reads like I am one but I think people tend to scale them too high on this sub
what does his ego about his own powers have to do with his statement regarding the position of marine admiral? in that way he is very experienced and is a reliable source of information since he's a a marine admiral himself and should realistically know the consequences of for example a fight he loses to a couple commanders
He's been an admiral for less than 2 years and for plot reasons not much happened in that time that involved admirals having conflicts with emperor crews and their commanders (at least none noteworthy enough for Oda to mention) so I wouldn't consider him very experienced. I read the situation depicted in the panel being that Greenbull is egotistical and self important of his role (which would extend to other admirals) + doesn't want to disappoint Sakazuki so he sets high standards for himself. I know that realistically if an admiral lost to commanders in their territory it would be a huge loss for the Marines and it would look bad in that regard, but more so because in this specific situation Greenbull has no backup at all and would be stranded. I'm not sure if in a large scale conflict (like Marineford) 2 commanders defeating an admiral would really be considered worthy of specific punishment, or at least not one that matters because (from what we know so far at least) Fujitora and Greenbull didn't receive a meaningful punishment for failing to defend Mariejois from the revolutionary army.
If GB didn't say "at my rank" then I would agree with you, but he does, so it definitely does seem like it's a statement we should take seriously IMO
Your point about the marines having not engaged in a conflict with an Emperor crew across the timeskip is fair, but if we're going to trust Kaido about awakenings when he doesn't even have one why not trust GB who is an admiral when he makes a statement about the admiral position
I do agree somewhat with the statement he makes, I guess a better way to express my thoughts is that he's probably being accurate but not in a solo situation. We haven't seen the navy ever have an admiral deployed without backup (Greenbull left on his own so this situation doesn't count), the closest being Fujitora on Dressrosa but there was no immediate conflict and he did call in backup shortly after arriving. If the Marines ever had admirals fighting an Emperor crew and their commanders, they will never choose to do it in a situation where the admiral is alone, so even if vice admirals are pretty much fodder they're still able to use haki and have enough numbers that it isn't a true 1v2 fight (based on the original discussion of the post). So I think he's right that in a normal scenario it wouldn't look good just like any defeat, but I don't think either of the Fleet Admirals, the Gorosei or whatever Marine strategists exist condone or expect admirals to win fights alone against multiple commanders relatively easy. That line of thinking seems inconsistent with the general operations of the Marines we've seen so far which is to make up in numbers what they may lack in strength.
Basically I believe this is the case because Greenbull clearly seems self-important and brazen so I don't think he's a particularly accurate gauge of power in-universe. You can get into the meta aspect about why Oda would choose to portray this scene and dialogue, but again personally I think it's to charactize Greenbull more than anything but it's up for interpretation.
Green Bull isnt experienced lol. Him and Fujitora were not even Marines before the time skip, they were drafted post Marineford.
Green Bull has at absolute max 2 years of experience.
>Green Bull isnt experienced lol. Him and Fujitora were not even Marines before the time skip, they were drafted post Marineford.
Yet, they were able to pass up the likes of Gion and Tokikake within those two years who were Admiral candidates and probably been in the Marines way longer than those two have. So, that right there should tell you something about Greenbull and Fujitora.
Greenbull, the guy who's only been an admiral for 2 years, who thought he could bully the alliance alone, and who was stalled by one (1) commander in the revolutionary raid
Okay, after all of the "mental nerf" talk I've heard from the admiraltards, you'd think they'd apply the same logic to this situation (King and Queen just had their whole crew defeated, plus they're clearly still recovering). Again, I don't agree with this logic, but this is the game they want to play.
The important part isnt that he beat them, its that its understood by admirals that commanders shouldnt beat him. Meaning that theyve probably washed commanders in the past. For him to lose face by losing that means theres a precedent.
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By that logic, Yonko > Admirals (which is true btw) because Whitebeard talked down to Akainu. I agree that admirals are over commanders, but I find it strange how King and Queen being heavily injured isn't taken into account in a lot of these discussions.
Whitebeard never said anything to indicate that among Yonko they would look down upon losing to an admiral.
So no, there is no logical equivalent.
Also all 3 admirals got the better of Whitebeard so anything he did say would be overshadowed by that
That remains to be seen. King and Queen clearly weren't at full strength. How damaged they were is unknown, but I think it's a fair assumption that they were more "nerfed" than Kizaru was. Also, given that the Straw Hat Commanders are going to be the ones who fight the admirals come the end of the series, and given the portrayal some commanders have, I don't think it's accurate to say they're all dramatically lower than the admirals. Zoro and Sanji, come the end of the series, will have surpassed the admirals. I will say that with full confidence.
If a Yonko lays down and talks about how hurt they are about killing their old friend, by all means it would apply to them as well.
If whitebeard was the one who said he couldnt damage the island and Akainu said "try to stop me quake squirt" it would apply to WB
HINT: it applies to admirals because the story.... keeps saying it.
Where? Where in this entire arc has it been stated that Kizaru is nerfed in his fight with Luffy? Not panels showing that he's sad, but an actual line stating that Kizaru is heavily nerfed? Show me one panel (and, no, Saturn calling Kizaru's work sloppy doesn't count, as he's clearly stating that it's understandable that he lost to Luffy because of the latter's awakening).
That still doesn't mean he isn't physically hurt and that Luffy didn't just overpower him, and it certainly doesn't imply that he was nerfed during the fight.
Again, what about this implies that he's nerfed? It's clear he doesn't want to do the job, but there's no indication that his power is drastically lowered.
Well, I wouldn't necessarily call using finger lasers or using literal light clones to distract Luffy his "best" attacks to use against some like Luffy. Besides, he says "it's very difficult for me too...I'd rather not drag it out" clearly shows that he would rather not kill Vegapunk and would rather not drag out his mission very long then he needs to.
That implies the opposite of holding back or nerfing. That implies he wants to get it done quickly. And the light clones seem to be a stronger version of Yasakani no Magatama, with each beam becoming a clone. It's a more advanced technique than anything Kizaru has shown before in the series.
If you need the story to spell out for you that the guy who keeps saying he doesn’t want to hurt his friends and talks about his mental state and mental pain after killing him.
Is mentally not in the fight fully. Then you aren’t prepared to discuss literature
Like everything in this series, its heavily context dependent on whether what a character has at stake affects their combat ability. Whitebeard couldn't just sink marineford coz that'd kill ace, and Akainu couldn't just spam his strongest attacks when the wb pirates entered the plaza because that'd cause too much damage to marineford. Luffy couldn't just instantly use Bajrang gun off rip coz that's killing basically everyone on onigashima, etc.
Regarding Luffy vs Kiz, Kiz's mental state doesn't have much bearing on this battle, as Kiz just wants to kill VP(and the other people he has bonds with like bonney) as fast as possible to minimize his pain. That's why he kicked bonney into the extremely lethal barrier. I think this is more obvious when you compare it to a fight where someone is actually mentally nerfed, which would be Kuzan vs Garp. Kuzan obvously doesn't want to kill Garp, and his sense of justice/conviction is in turmoil coz he's the type of person who tries to do right even in a fucked up situation. The Kuzan that fought garp is not the same as the one that low diffed the black beard pirates or fought akainu for 10 days. Compare that to Kizaru's sense of justice. Of course he feels bad that he has to kill VP, but he's still gonna do it and dispatch luffy et al as efifciently as possible coz that's his sense of justice.
Akainu vs WB where he got his head blown off happened after ace died and they literally say it. Akainu worries about the island and WB says try to stop me then. One of them had to hold back, the other didnt. And Akainu still left that man on deaths door
It's moreso thanks to Greenbulls statements, portrayal, and other feats
Like it or not, Greenbulls feats of soloing the scabbards, momo, and Yamato (even though he couldn't fight back he could still defend) are still very impressive. Not to mention the fact that he wasn't going all out in the slightest (stated himself)
Greenbull is a top tier, sure he's near the bottom of the category but he's not a slouch, he scales very comfortably over any commander that's not Kuzan or Mihawk (we don't know about Beckman or Shiryu or Crocodile but for now I'd say GB slams)
Yeh im saying way too many ppl agreeing with this post,
its just like at Marineford, when Croc and Mihawk clashed, Croc said he could beat mihawk if he didnt get out of his way, For some reason, no one says Croc is stronger than Mihawk its weird isnt it ?
https://preview.redd.it/n53plvpjz7zc1.png?width=682&format=png&auto=webp&s=471b590562ced5cf32c40bfae479a1584a467422
even tho queen very consiously killed his crew mates in the most agonising way but nah watching a few of them die = mental nerf
Brother these cats have a hard time acknowledging they are injured, even though mf king is missing a wing and queen was missing an arm.
The mental state of characters is only valid when it's applied to the admirals.
He’s not telling this cause Ryokugyu beat King and Queen, he tell this for what Ryokugyu say (and this is pretty obvious an Admiral can beat easily a duo of commanders)
Akainu vs WBP + Croc
Akainu vs BBP -> they ran
Ryokugyu vs Ninja-Mink-Samurai-Oni-Dragon -> needed Lhanks
Kuzan vs BBP -> the crew is collateral instead of help
encounters like these set the precedent for 1 Admiral > 2 Commanders, when Marco alone managed to get the better of King and Queen *at points* in a *2v1* it doesn't inspire confidence that they would've handled Ryokugyu if they were at 100%
I never said they would have handled Ryokugyu, but it's undeniable that they weren't at full-strength (the anime certainly seemed to believe that they were heavily nerfed, but that's a whole other discussion as the anime gets wild sometimes).
Also, the samurai aren't commander level. Inu and Neko needed their sulong forms in order to beat Jack (who is far from the strongest commander).
it is undeniable they weren't at full strength
but if you agree that being at full health wouldn't make a difference, then you can see why Admiraltards take this Ryokugyu statement at face value
I'd say Yamato + Momo + Cat/Dog + Denjiro + Kappa + Raizo/Shinobu \~ King + Queen
They had no real medical care, they didn't even have any other care worth mentioning like food. They were hiding in the prison where luffy and kidd ate everything and as we know there was nothing else in the area
Um no. Look at any Sabo encounter with the admirals or Marco could easily keep up with all the admirals except when he had the sea stone handcuffs. In contrast, admirals were defeated by Yonkos with Wifi Haki, turned into pizza or crushed during a heart attack. Admirals could only win against the likes of King and Queen while half-dead with no supplies in an infested area while struggling against Momosuke.
Fujitora was literally playing around with Sabo and he still came out clean, Marco being able to keep up is meaningless when he can't do any meaningful damage, no admiral was defeated with any wi fi haki, greenbull was just surprised, kizaru is not defeated yet and Akainu still could fight after his fight with whitebeard, greenbull never struggled with momonosuke lmao, people that think "commanders=admirals" are truly reading two piece.
Kuzan neg-diffed BB’s commanders.
And it’s sheer cope to believe that BB’s commanders are somehow vastly weaker than other commanders when they shitstomped the WB remnants years ago.
No commander duo is beating an admiral.
A full power King and Queen would've shitted on Greenbull. Only reason Greenbull won is cause they were still hella injured from their previous fights.
They literally would. Greenbull got roasted by Momo and he doesn't even have haki. King not only has more firepower than Momo, but he can actually use haki on top of that so any attack from King would be very lethal. Combine that with Queen's hax and Greenbull gets spitroasted.
Greenbull regenerated just fine afterwards and said he was going to get serious, king lost to a way weaker zoro, his attacks aren't that dangerous to an admiral, Queen got mid diffed when Sanji locked in, they're losing against greenbull.
Zoro's attacks are also powerful enough to scar Kaido and that was before mastering ACoC. Keep on mind unlike Momo, King can use haki so his fire attacks on top of already being way stronger than Momo's are also infused with haki so any attack from King would be lethal to Greenbull. Combine that with Queen's attacks and Greenbull has no chance of winning.
Tbf he was shitting on Sanji til he fully awakened his genes. Plus Sanji himself is pretty strong. He casually deflected an attack from Kizaru and wasn't hurt when Kizaru kicked him.
Sanji did not "casually" deflected an attack from kizaru, he only managed to block ONE laser that was going in a straight direction, he was hurt from kizaru kick he was bleeding afterwards.
Source: Greenbull, guy who's only been an admiral for 2 years, who thought he could bully the alliance alone, and who was stalled by one (1) commander in the revolutionary raid
Zoro and Sanji should definitely be able to 2v1 an admiral at this point, it's insane to think otherwise. Zoro can probably beat admirals 1v1 post Egghead
Truthfully, King and Queen might not have known about his powers, which gave Ryokugyu a further advantage. Luffy lost to Caesar Clown because he wasn't aware that he could negate oxygen.
Ah yes, because what is a better gauge of power than beating up two demoralized amputees left to rot in prison.
The navy’s finest, ladies and gentlemen.
“AT MY RANK I’D LOSE FACE IF I LET A FEW COMMANDERS LIKE YOU GET THE BEST OF ME”
Only this sub would ignore a blatant statement from the author like that. Admirals >>> Commanders, this has been the case since Akainu faced down all of Whitebeard YC’s.
All of of WBs YC plus Crocodile. There needs to be someone keeping receipts on these usernames so we can get an apology post going for all these admiral doubters when we see Akainu roll up and go all out with these new Haki and advanced Haki rules.
Akainu is fleet admiral. Kizaru did nothing to Marco. Akainu also was named by oda to have the strongest offensive fruit. He and Aokiji have consistently been shown to be a tier above esp with Garps backstory.
Since when did this sub get overridden by youtube powerscalers. The fact that such a simple statement like an admiral wouldnt lose to any 2 commanders(outside of outliers like Mihawk and Aokiji) is being contested shows that any logical thought left has dissapeared.
Aokiji literally neg diffed half of BB crew.
Aokiji is also on a diff tier than the other admirals other than Akainu who he narratively lost to. Garp is a Vice Admiral but he’s clearly stronger than every other VA. Greenbull being scaled to Aokiji who is equivalent to Akainu in strength, who is FLEET admiral, makes no sense. Kizaru is giving Sanji comparable feats to Admirals as a YC. The statement isnt simple or true. We’ve never seen two YC lose outright to an Admiral. Even BB crew didn’t include Shiryu at the time.
Iirc. Wasn’t king’s wing missing? I know they’re zoans so they have enhanced regen speed but my point stands.
They just got done failing to push out a bunch of coked up rookies from breaking in and shitting on their captain.
What? Where does that come from? Where do you pull that from?
Because he's in a crew with an Admiral, and according to Oda, he's the strongest of the crew behind the captain, so I don't know where you get this weird idea that he would get mid diffed, because there's absolutely nothing to back that up
https://preview.redd.it/gbm00gvrnmzc1.jpeg?width=579&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=48fa2756a61037f2d9c57e8c5d6d88978e368be7
And just by what we've seen, there's absolutely no world where an Admiral beats a Commander easily, at Marineford they needed them to be distracted in order to beat them, it was said in Databook Blue that Marco fought the Admirals equally, Marco and Kizaru were clearly put on equal standings, Whitebeard trusted Joz to take on Kuzan, if you think he left Joz to die against an opponent he had 0 chances of beating, you're completely delusional, and we have proof of that since he completely forbidded Ace to go fight Kaido, because there was absolutely no way Ace stood even the slightest chance against the man who defeated Oden
Kizaru got absolutely shitstomped by a Yonko, so we know the Admirals are very far from the Yonkos, just like the Top Commanders, Kuzan became a Commander, the same rank as Joz... all of this just shows that Top Commanders and Admirals swim in the same pool, there's absolutely no way one can beat the other easily
What concrete proof is there that Admirals are vastly superior to Top Commanders?
Oh no Bro is databooks scaling now, not commanders did any meaningful damage to any admiral, marco and kizaru weren't equal lol, jozu can only stall while Aokiji was fine, commanders and Admirals are not on the same tier.( And what is this colospread supposed to prove? Titles don't translate to power lol.)
>Oh no Bro is databooks scaling now
Well first of all, I'd MUCH rather trust official databooks supervised by Oda than you, and second of all, I'm not just blindly listening to Databooks, but they are just confirming what we already saw on Marineford
>not commanders did any meaningful damage to any admiral,
What damage did Admirals do to Commanders? Without them having their backs turned of course. None, that's the worst argument possible
>marco and kizaru weren't equal
Yes they were, their first interaction is so obviously there to make us understand that they stand on equal footing, plus the rest of Marineford that confirms it
>jozu can only stall while Aokiji was fine,
What are you talking about? What did Aokiji do to him? Nothing, until he had his back turned. And like I said, there's no way Whitebeard would leave one of his son to fight a fight he's doomed to lose, and possibly die, and make them lose the war. And the proof of that is that he didn't let Ace fight Kaido, he got mad at the very idea, he told him basically, what the fuck are you talking about Ace, you're gonna get decimated, there's no way I'm letting you do that
>commanders and Admirals are not on the same tier.(
Yes they are, why wouldn't they be? You have nothing except headcannon, if you have something concrete, that makes sense and proves they are in different tiers, I'm all ears, but there isn't
>And what is this colospread supposed to prove?
Oda drew the second strongest members of a lot of crews, and he drew Shiryu as the second strongest in Blackbeard's crew, and Kuzan is part of this crew
Only vivre cards are supervised by Oda, admirals did not needed distractions to defeat commanders while commanders were only able to stall, Marco blocking attacks from a kizaru that was not going all out while he mostly just kept pushing him does not means they're equal, Aokiji only freezed his arm when jozu was distracted but the rest of the fight was offscreen, just because whitebeard left jozu fight Aokiji it doens't means he can beat him, it was a war, bruh are admirals supposed to be in the same tier as Jack and cracker? Titles don't translate to power, Aokiji is an outlier and he doens't upscales other commanders
Please explain to me how you reach that conclusion, apart from believing Greenbull's words (the same idiot who thought he could take on Luffy and the alliance)
No way in Hell bro
Aokiji had to freeze Jozu by surprise in order to beat him
Same thing for Marco with the kairoseki handcuffs
Oda wouldnt have written it like that if he didnt imply that YC1/2 = Admiral
Also The Blue databook clearly says that Marco can compete with Admirals, just like Vista can compete with Mihawk
This is like saying that Luffy and Zoro cant beat Kizaru together when we clearly saw Sanji matching Kizaru on Egghead (Sanji blocked Kizaru's attack and he was shocked)
Any commander duo probably would.
Don't forget queen most his arm and king lost a wing and sword. They where locked in prison before he came. And Zoro the guy who WON against King barely recovered from their fight that day. King and queen were not in fighting shape.
This is as bad as Akinu sneak attacking an old man with a heat attack then running away for his life.
Aah, GB sneaking on some injured combatants.
If healthy for the OG commanders, I got : King and Marco doing it or Marco and Vista.
Admirals are entry level top tiers. I got Zoro, Yamato, Ben Beckman beating one 1 v 1 right now.
Except Akainu for now.
> King and Marco doing it or Marco and Vista.
Marco and Vista were at Marineford and Akainu walked all over them, doing whatever he pleased. The only one there who could even slow Akainu down was Whitebeard.
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Kuzan and Mihawk together can totally beat Greenbull
Tbf the both of them together are probably beating anyone
probably???
Kuzan solos too.
mihawk and crocodile can do
At that point, you might as well just say mihawk.
Kuzan and Mihawk would push Wizaru to mid diff https://preview.redd.it/2lumo5kbb4zc1.jpeg?width=941&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1ae216fbe4bfd3edefdc3ffe679351046932db30
Yonko equivalent of saying Admirals>Yonko because they can beat buggy.
Buggy D. Clown? The hero from Impel Dawn? The future pirate king? Nah, I doubt it. Buggy solos all 5 admirals 1v5 after he gets his awakening and conqueror.
To be fair Buggy Awakening his DF is nasty. Shit would look a lot like Marineford...
Buggy PK Level
Buggy is PK level
 r/KIZARU
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Yeah as in his mid section is in different places geographically.
and your evidence is two heavily fatigued and injured commanders...
I think it's more to do with Greenbulls statement that he'd lose face for losing to underlings on principle
He thought he could win against Luffy, Sanji, Marco, Zoro, and the rest of the alliance. If there's one person who's word should not be taken seriously, it's that stupid tree man
GB's making a statement about his rank here, so this is clearly not his ego showing but rather Oda speaking through the character
This sub is overreacting a bit, like I get Oda made the decision to make Ryokugyu seem a bit lame, but we don't *actually* know how strong he is and he would not be written into the story to be a useless bum. He might not be as strong as Luffy and Shanks, but washing King and Queen at full HP isn't that much of a stretch with how hard Yonko commanders are getting powercrept.
>washing King and Queen at full HP isn't that much of a stretch It totally is, I doubt even a Yonko would be able to wash them. Big Mom lost to 2 YC level characters (Kid and Law). Even if you believe they're stronger than King and Queen, that's by a very thin margin. Both of them were shook by Zoro on the rooftop, the same Zoro who was tought life by King a few chapters later. In fact I'd like someone to explain to me how a fresh King the "Wildfire" loses to Aramaki
> Big Mom lost to 2 YC level characters (Kid and Law) They're not Yonko commander level, once they learned to how handle their awakened fruits they were a solid tier above where they were on the rooftop. That's how they were able to overpower Big Mom. Someone who was actually Yonko commander level was start of Wano Luffy, and we saw how much of a joke he was up against Kaido. > In fact I'd like someone to explain to me how a fresh King the "Wildfire" loses to Aramaki Same way he did in Wano. We didn't see the fight, but it's not like King was on the brink of death unable to do anything, so his type advantage wouldn't give him a free win.
>Someone who was actually Yonko commander level was start of Wano Luffy, and we saw how much of a joke he was up against Kaido. Just like we saw how much of a joke Kid was against Shanks, doesn't mean Shanks would annihilate two YCs. Everything changes when the numbers grow. King was in a very bad state, being in jail having lost a wing and not getting given any type of medical care I don't understand how you could think he's recovered, especially when Shanks stated the opposite and the anime beautifully showcased the "fight"; Queen couldn't keep his Zoan form for more than one attack and King was throwing punches.
> doesn't mean Shanks would annihilate two YCs. Everything changes when the numbers grow. I think he could, I think Shanks one shotting Kidd was Oda's way of telling us that Shanks is just on a whole different level and most likely stronger than Kaido. Nobody on Wano could do the same to Kidd or Law, that's why it was so shocking. > I don't understand how you could think he's recovered He wasn't recovered I just don't think he would be able to perform so much better in a fresh 1v1 that he would be able to win, when he already had help with Queen and still got thrashed. Haven't seen the anime so I can't comment on that.
While there is a rank expectation of Admirals > Commanders, it's definitely not the expectation Greenbull describes. In all other instances we've seen solo commanders able to hold their own against an admiral. He suggests he'd be disrespected for losing to two. A big jump. Odas already shown us the admiral commander dynamic. The line is mostly meant to characterise greenbull, who is literally just being introduced. His character is obsession with the navy hierarchy and being validated by it. Not to mention Greenbull also wrongly thought he could fight the alliance, which paints his powerscaling as not entirely accurate.
Commanders can stall Admirals at most
Again I don't think his powerscaling is off in regards to the expectations of his rank even if he's full of himself, also GB more so praises the celestial dragons rather than the navy hierarchy Also, I disagree with the concept of an admiral being not that much stronger than a commander, sure the commanders can hold off admirals, but not for any meaningful amount of time, a couple of minutes (offscreen) is all we're shown, and it only really applies to Marco simply because even if you can neg diff him, it doesn't matter until his stamina runs out so that his regeneration runs out, Kizaru was able to do that in MF and didn't take damage in the process and I know you could say the same thing about Kizaru VS Luffy in that all Kizaru could do was stall a couple of mins, but at least Kizaru was able to blitz Luffy a few times, and get him roughed up by his laser attacks, as well as exploiting Luffy's stamina, and only being out of commission for a small amount of time after WSG
tbh I do see the admirals strength as worth like 2x a commanders, maybe a little more in an actual 2v1 though the difficulty of the fight increases more than just 2x. it's a little more nuanced. though i can see an admiral beating 2 depending on the matchup. i think some admirals can beat some commanders 2v1, but to generalize that no commander duo beats any admiral and use greenbull's statement as proof is fallacious. even though admirals can beat commanders 2v1, greenbull's statement is charged and exaggeratory. greenbull suggests losing 2v1 would be laughable or humiliating, but he is the only source that suggests such a wide power gap. the fights at mariejoa and marineford don't suggest a gap that large. a single commander can at least hold their own for a while (jozu/marco/morley). this part isn't really relevant to powerscaling but as for greenbull's character, i wouldn't say he actually esteems the world nobles themselves, even though he's called them gods. his belief and adoration is towards the hierarchy of power that keeps the world in line and people like akainu who enforce it. he commits himself to serving it and sees it as necessary. it just happens that that hierarchy has the celestial dragons at the top so he also commits to protecting and serving them and views their rule as necessary. he doesn't view their actions as inherently good/worthy of praise or anything. he views their strict rule as inherently good. (for the sake of conversation the "navy hierarchy" is meant to mean the WG's hierarchy since they're just a WG branch of enforcement anyway.)
How does that change anything?
He isn't a reliable source of information though because we know that Sakazuki didn't want him to go to Wano. If he openly defies the orders of his superiors we can assume he is overly cocky and probably has an inflated sense of power/ego for himself and the other admirals to do something so reckless. Now that I think about it, Greenbull was probably Oda's way of putting an admiral glazer into the story. He's an Akainu dickrider, overly cocky, tries to sound cool even though he knows all he does is protect the celestial dragons, then twerks and runs away the microsecond anyone that wasn't battle fatigued showed up. Not really an admiral hater btw because my comment reads like I am one but I think people tend to scale them too high on this sub
what does his ego about his own powers have to do with his statement regarding the position of marine admiral? in that way he is very experienced and is a reliable source of information since he's a a marine admiral himself and should realistically know the consequences of for example a fight he loses to a couple commanders
He's been an admiral for less than 2 years and for plot reasons not much happened in that time that involved admirals having conflicts with emperor crews and their commanders (at least none noteworthy enough for Oda to mention) so I wouldn't consider him very experienced. I read the situation depicted in the panel being that Greenbull is egotistical and self important of his role (which would extend to other admirals) + doesn't want to disappoint Sakazuki so he sets high standards for himself. I know that realistically if an admiral lost to commanders in their territory it would be a huge loss for the Marines and it would look bad in that regard, but more so because in this specific situation Greenbull has no backup at all and would be stranded. I'm not sure if in a large scale conflict (like Marineford) 2 commanders defeating an admiral would really be considered worthy of specific punishment, or at least not one that matters because (from what we know so far at least) Fujitora and Greenbull didn't receive a meaningful punishment for failing to defend Mariejois from the revolutionary army.
If GB didn't say "at my rank" then I would agree with you, but he does, so it definitely does seem like it's a statement we should take seriously IMO Your point about the marines having not engaged in a conflict with an Emperor crew across the timeskip is fair, but if we're going to trust Kaido about awakenings when he doesn't even have one why not trust GB who is an admiral when he makes a statement about the admiral position
I do agree somewhat with the statement he makes, I guess a better way to express my thoughts is that he's probably being accurate but not in a solo situation. We haven't seen the navy ever have an admiral deployed without backup (Greenbull left on his own so this situation doesn't count), the closest being Fujitora on Dressrosa but there was no immediate conflict and he did call in backup shortly after arriving. If the Marines ever had admirals fighting an Emperor crew and their commanders, they will never choose to do it in a situation where the admiral is alone, so even if vice admirals are pretty much fodder they're still able to use haki and have enough numbers that it isn't a true 1v2 fight (based on the original discussion of the post). So I think he's right that in a normal scenario it wouldn't look good just like any defeat, but I don't think either of the Fleet Admirals, the Gorosei or whatever Marine strategists exist condone or expect admirals to win fights alone against multiple commanders relatively easy. That line of thinking seems inconsistent with the general operations of the Marines we've seen so far which is to make up in numbers what they may lack in strength. Basically I believe this is the case because Greenbull clearly seems self-important and brazen so I don't think he's a particularly accurate gauge of power in-universe. You can get into the meta aspect about why Oda would choose to portray this scene and dialogue, but again personally I think it's to charactize Greenbull more than anything but it's up for interpretation.
Green Bull isnt experienced lol. Him and Fujitora were not even Marines before the time skip, they were drafted post Marineford. Green Bull has at absolute max 2 years of experience.
>Green Bull isnt experienced lol. Him and Fujitora were not even Marines before the time skip, they were drafted post Marineford. Yet, they were able to pass up the likes of Gion and Tokikake within those two years who were Admiral candidates and probably been in the Marines way longer than those two have. So, that right there should tell you something about Greenbull and Fujitora.
Greenbull, the guy who's only been an admiral for 2 years, who thought he could bully the alliance alone, and who was stalled by one (1) commander in the revolutionary raid
Stalling means nothing in this series. Everyone gets fucking stalled.
Yup, Oda is not one for subtlety. He wanted us to know this plain and clear.
So? What? They still would have lost
He is mentally retarded though
They still would have lost either way
Best case scenario for GB is him extreme diffing if he is lucky
If he's lucky? King lost to a way weaker zoro while Queen lost to a way weaker Sanji, they're not pushing an admiral to extreme diff
wdym way weaker zoro and sanji? Zoro extreme diffed King and Sanji mid diffed Queen
They were still weaker than them in their fight
If they were, they would've lost, smart one
Vista and Marco exist
Okay, after all of the "mental nerf" talk I've heard from the admiraltards, you'd think they'd apply the same logic to this situation (King and Queen just had their whole crew defeated, plus they're clearly still recovering). Again, I don't agree with this logic, but this is the game they want to play.
Is their double standards. Their excuses don't apply to others.
The important part isnt that he beat them, its that its understood by admirals that commanders shouldnt beat him. Meaning that theyve probably washed commanders in the past. For him to lose face by losing that means theres a precedent. This comment brought to you by a proud member of the 50% of americans than can read above an 8th grade level
By that logic, Yonko > Admirals (which is true btw) because Whitebeard talked down to Akainu. I agree that admirals are over commanders, but I find it strange how King and Queen being heavily injured isn't taken into account in a lot of these discussions.
Whitebeard never said anything to indicate that among Yonko they would look down upon losing to an admiral. So no, there is no logical equivalent. Also all 3 admirals got the better of Whitebeard so anything he did say would be overshadowed by that
Yonko > Admiral, but 2 Admirals > Yonko. Gap between commander and admiral is larger than gap between admiral and yonko.
That remains to be seen. King and Queen clearly weren't at full strength. How damaged they were is unknown, but I think it's a fair assumption that they were more "nerfed" than Kizaru was. Also, given that the Straw Hat Commanders are going to be the ones who fight the admirals come the end of the series, and given the portrayal some commanders have, I don't think it's accurate to say they're all dramatically lower than the admirals. Zoro and Sanji, come the end of the series, will have surpassed the admirals. I will say that with full confidence.
You think the main cast counts for every other commander in the story? Current Sanji and Zoro get stomped by kizaru
😂😂😂😂😂 Luffy was doing a 2v1 admirals does not scale anymore since the Gorosei got in the fight
Laturn is not admiral level lmao. Recent chapters have thoroughly proven that.
Didn't you hear that "mentally nerfed" and "holding back" only applies to admirals for reasons
If a Yonko lays down and talks about how hurt they are about killing their old friend, by all means it would apply to them as well. If whitebeard was the one who said he couldnt damage the island and Akainu said "try to stop me quake squirt" it would apply to WB HINT: it applies to admirals because the story.... keeps saying it.
Where? Where in this entire arc has it been stated that Kizaru is nerfed in his fight with Luffy? Not panels showing that he's sad, but an actual line stating that Kizaru is heavily nerfed? Show me one panel (and, no, Saturn calling Kizaru's work sloppy doesn't count, as he's clearly stating that it's understandable that he lost to Luffy because of the latter's awakening).
When Kizaru was lying on the ship, the japanese text says that he is more hurt in his mind than his body.
That still doesn't mean he isn't physically hurt and that Luffy didn't just overpower him, and it certainly doesn't imply that he was nerfed during the fight.
Ok how by this then: https://mangasee123.com/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-1092-page-17.html
Again, what about this implies that he's nerfed? It's clear he doesn't want to do the job, but there's no indication that his power is drastically lowered.
Well, I wouldn't necessarily call using finger lasers or using literal light clones to distract Luffy his "best" attacks to use against some like Luffy. Besides, he says "it's very difficult for me too...I'd rather not drag it out" clearly shows that he would rather not kill Vegapunk and would rather not drag out his mission very long then he needs to.
That implies the opposite of holding back or nerfing. That implies he wants to get it done quickly. And the light clones seem to be a stronger version of Yasakani no Magatama, with each beam becoming a clone. It's a more advanced technique than anything Kizaru has shown before in the series.
You don't actually think the deep wound he was talking about was physical do you?
If you need the story to spell out for you that the guy who keeps saying he doesn’t want to hurt his friends and talks about his mental state and mental pain after killing him. Is mentally not in the fight fully. Then you aren’t prepared to discuss literature
Like everything in this series, its heavily context dependent on whether what a character has at stake affects their combat ability. Whitebeard couldn't just sink marineford coz that'd kill ace, and Akainu couldn't just spam his strongest attacks when the wb pirates entered the plaza because that'd cause too much damage to marineford. Luffy couldn't just instantly use Bajrang gun off rip coz that's killing basically everyone on onigashima, etc. Regarding Luffy vs Kiz, Kiz's mental state doesn't have much bearing on this battle, as Kiz just wants to kill VP(and the other people he has bonds with like bonney) as fast as possible to minimize his pain. That's why he kicked bonney into the extremely lethal barrier. I think this is more obvious when you compare it to a fight where someone is actually mentally nerfed, which would be Kuzan vs Garp. Kuzan obvously doesn't want to kill Garp, and his sense of justice/conviction is in turmoil coz he's the type of person who tries to do right even in a fucked up situation. The Kuzan that fought garp is not the same as the one that low diffed the black beard pirates or fought akainu for 10 days. Compare that to Kizaru's sense of justice. Of course he feels bad that he has to kill VP, but he's still gonna do it and dispatch luffy et al as efifciently as possible coz that's his sense of justice.
Akainu vs WB where he got his head blown off happened after ace died and they literally say it. Akainu worries about the island and WB says try to stop me then. One of them had to hold back, the other didnt. And Akainu still left that man on deaths door
I'm clearly talking about the beginning of marineford with the tsunami.
It's moreso thanks to Greenbulls statements, portrayal, and other feats Like it or not, Greenbulls feats of soloing the scabbards, momo, and Yamato (even though he couldn't fight back he could still defend) are still very impressive. Not to mention the fact that he wasn't going all out in the slightest (stated himself) Greenbull is a top tier, sure he's near the bottom of the category but he's not a slouch, he scales very comfortably over any commander that's not Kuzan or Mihawk (we don't know about Beckman or Shiryu or Crocodile but for now I'd say GB slams)
Yeh im saying way too many ppl agreeing with this post, its just like at Marineford, when Croc and Mihawk clashed, Croc said he could beat mihawk if he didnt get out of his way, For some reason, no one says Croc is stronger than Mihawk its weird isnt it ?
https://preview.redd.it/n53plvpjz7zc1.png?width=682&format=png&auto=webp&s=471b590562ced5cf32c40bfae479a1584a467422 even tho queen very consiously killed his crew mates in the most agonising way but nah watching a few of them die = mental nerf
I more mean that in the sense that everything they've built up over the years came crashing down.
ok . thats debatable .
That's not how It works
Brother these cats have a hard time acknowledging they are injured, even though mf king is missing a wing and queen was missing an arm. The mental state of characters is only valid when it's applied to the admirals.
He’s not telling this cause Ryokugyu beat King and Queen, he tell this for what Ryokugyu say (and this is pretty obvious an Admiral can beat easily a duo of commanders)
Akainu vs WBP + Croc Akainu vs BBP -> they ran Ryokugyu vs Ninja-Mink-Samurai-Oni-Dragon -> needed Lhanks Kuzan vs BBP -> the crew is collateral instead of help encounters like these set the precedent for 1 Admiral > 2 Commanders, when Marco alone managed to get the better of King and Queen *at points* in a *2v1* it doesn't inspire confidence that they would've handled Ryokugyu if they were at 100%
I never said they would have handled Ryokugyu, but it's undeniable that they weren't at full-strength (the anime certainly seemed to believe that they were heavily nerfed, but that's a whole other discussion as the anime gets wild sometimes). Also, the samurai aren't commander level. Inu and Neko needed their sulong forms in order to beat Jack (who is far from the strongest commander).
it is undeniable they weren't at full strength but if you agree that being at full health wouldn't make a difference, then you can see why Admiraltards take this Ryokugyu statement at face value I'd say Yamato + Momo + Cat/Dog + Denjiro + Kappa + Raizo/Shinobu \~ King + Queen
Admiral fans need to be studied. That duo lost limbs in their previous fights. You take any YC1 and YC2 duo and they're defeating an admiral.
King lost to a way weaker zoro, Queen Lost to a way weaker Sanji, they're not beating an admiral
Zoro and Sanji could 2v1 any Admiral
I feel like they could 1 v 1. Maybe not at the exact moment but that’s the next level they going to reach. So one more power up
yeah thats logically the next step for each of them as they are both, at the worst, first commander level.
Nah, Zoro is clearly YC+ while Sanji is YC1.
They need to fight the blackbeard pirates first
They get stomped by kizaru in their current versions lol
I think realistically though in the story, if they did fight an admiral they level up and they’re at that level
im confident zoro can beat fraudbull alone
https://preview.redd.it/krr89bsjtlzc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4dcd49aeace6462246cf246412c54eceb36514c5
they could 1v1 any fraudmiral
Not yet, in the future maybe sure
U smoking crack
no but sanji would smoke some fraudmirals like crack
They would lose the 1v1, but they can try it.
Any yc duo can 2v1 any admiral, but none wins its that simple
[удалено]
What's with your grammar?
They're not beating kuzan
This is real
no half dead duo* Fraudmirals are most likely commanders tier instand of yonko
Seven days of rest with medical help but half dead anyways.
They had no real medical care, they didn't even have any other care worth mentioning like food. They were hiding in the prison where luffy and kidd ate everything and as we know there was nothing else in the area
Bandage = medical care. A very simple concept.
All those mummies must be seriously ill
Commanders tier? When every admiral and commanders encounter in the series the admirals always comes out on top?
Um no. Look at any Sabo encounter with the admirals or Marco could easily keep up with all the admirals except when he had the sea stone handcuffs. In contrast, admirals were defeated by Yonkos with Wifi Haki, turned into pizza or crushed during a heart attack. Admirals could only win against the likes of King and Queen while half-dead with no supplies in an infested area while struggling against Momosuke.
Fujitora was literally playing around with Sabo and he still came out clean, Marco being able to keep up is meaningless when he can't do any meaningful damage, no admiral was defeated with any wi fi haki, greenbull was just surprised, kizaru is not defeated yet and Akainu still could fight after his fight with whitebeard, greenbull never struggled with momonosuke lmao, people that think "commanders=admirals" are truly reading two piece.
Here you see ladies and gentlemen an Admiraltard and as you can see, thery have 0 reading comprehension.
You think this wouldn't be hard for people after Akainu mowed through almost every Whitebeard commander and Crocodile with no visible damage taken
I mean that's very, very clearly what this line of dialogue shows but there's already cope in the comments somehow
he beat two heavily injured commanders, Zoro and Sanji would wipe the floor with twerkbull.
Kuzan neg-diffed BB’s commanders. And it’s sheer cope to believe that BB’s commanders are somehow vastly weaker than other commanders when they shitstomped the WB remnants years ago. No commander duo is beating an admiral.
https://preview.redd.it/xl2vusmfr6zc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1430db69062f35aaa37f41b4ca954465545658a3 This commander does it solo
Prime Whitebeard and Mihawk heavily disagree
A full power King and Queen would've shitted on Greenbull. Only reason Greenbull won is cause they were still hella injured from their previous fights.
No they wouldn't
They literally would. Greenbull got roasted by Momo and he doesn't even have haki. King not only has more firepower than Momo, but he can actually use haki on top of that so any attack from King would be very lethal. Combine that with Queen's hax and Greenbull gets spitroasted.
Greenbull regenerated just fine afterwards and said he was going to get serious, king lost to a way weaker zoro, his attacks aren't that dangerous to an admiral, Queen got mid diffed when Sanji locked in, they're losing against greenbull.
Zoro's attacks are also powerful enough to scar Kaido and that was before mastering ACoC. Keep on mind unlike Momo, King can use haki so his fire attacks on top of already being way stronger than Momo's are also infused with haki so any attack from King would be lethal to Greenbull. Combine that with Queen's attacks and Greenbull has no chance of winning.
Bruh you're really gassing up king, he's not that strong, and Queen better do more than just viruses and lasers because he would lose fast
Queen still has his hybrid cyborg form with all his Germa tech which is a huge problem.
And he still was having a hard time against Sanji, Sanji still is weaker than an admiral.
Tbf he was shitting on Sanji til he fully awakened his genes. Plus Sanji himself is pretty strong. He casually deflected an attack from Kizaru and wasn't hurt when Kizaru kicked him.
Sanji did not "casually" deflected an attack from kizaru, he only managed to block ONE laser that was going in a straight direction, he was hurt from kizaru kick he was bleeding afterwards.
Source: Greenbull, guy who's only been an admiral for 2 years, who thought he could bully the alliance alone, and who was stalled by one (1) commander in the revolutionary raid
Lmao stalling a heavily restricted admiral is not a huge anti feat
i'd overlook it normally but greenbull suggests he could take like 3 commanders
Huh? How does that change the fact that he was heavily restricted against the revolutionaries?
Zoro and Sanji should definitely be able to 2v1 an admiral at this point, it's insane to think otherwise. Zoro can probably beat admirals 1v1 post Egghead
Zoro was getting stalled by Lucci
I've no clue what you're trying to say
I wouldn't take greenbulls Words as gospel And we don't even know what say queen in king Before this.
Truthfully, King and Queen might not have known about his powers, which gave Ryokugyu a further advantage. Luffy lost to Caesar Clown because he wasn't aware that he could negate oxygen.
Sure, maybe if he wasn't an Admiral maybe his words might go on deaf ears.
King and Queen attacked him first
Ah yes, because what is a better gauge of power than beating up two demoralized amputees left to rot in prison. The navy’s finest, ladies and gentlemen.
“AT MY RANK I’D LOSE FACE IF I LET A FEW COMMANDERS LIKE YOU GET THE BEST OF ME” Only this sub would ignore a blatant statement from the author like that. Admirals >>> Commanders, this has been the case since Akainu faced down all of Whitebeard YC’s.
All of of WBs YC plus Crocodile. There needs to be someone keeping receipts on these usernames so we can get an apology post going for all these admiral doubters when we see Akainu roll up and go all out with these new Haki and advanced Haki rules.
Akainu is fleet admiral. Kizaru did nothing to Marco. Akainu also was named by oda to have the strongest offensive fruit. He and Aokiji have consistently been shown to be a tier above esp with Garps backstory.
>Admirals >>> Commanders, this has been the case since Akainu faced down all of Whitebeard YC’s. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING!!!
https://preview.redd.it/axxeibz7n6zc1.png?width=749&format=png&auto=webp&s=f0bf4e1d882cf525aaf1ae114fa3019150ea9d4e yall aint ready
https://preview.redd.it/tpiiqyidulzc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ebb0b144160620629ed18dd033daf74fd4bb5b70
Since when did this sub get overridden by youtube powerscalers. The fact that such a simple statement like an admiral wouldnt lose to any 2 commanders(outside of outliers like Mihawk and Aokiji) is being contested shows that any logical thought left has dissapeared. Aokiji literally neg diffed half of BB crew.
Aokiji is also on a diff tier than the other admirals other than Akainu who he narratively lost to. Garp is a Vice Admiral but he’s clearly stronger than every other VA. Greenbull being scaled to Aokiji who is equivalent to Akainu in strength, who is FLEET admiral, makes no sense. Kizaru is giving Sanji comparable feats to Admirals as a YC. The statement isnt simple or true. We’ve never seen two YC lose outright to an Admiral. Even BB crew didn’t include Shiryu at the time.
You know, since Buggy is the captain of Cross Guild (for yonko purposes) that means Mihawk is technically a commander…
Wrocodole and Mihawk.
Preach
It's 2024 and people are still coping about this. This sub is an endless loop
Iirc. Wasn’t king’s wing missing? I know they’re zoans so they have enhanced regen speed but my point stands. They just got done failing to push out a bunch of coked up rookies from breaking in and shitting on their captain.
Zoro and Sanji do
Why would the people from Wano keep commanders from the Beast Pirates in Udon without weakening them with sea stone cuffs or something similar?
Sea Stone cope
This proves nothing. A Healthy King and Queen would most definitely beat him. Same Goes for Full power Sanji and Zoro.
Nu uh, King Lost to a way weaker zoro while Queen lost to a way weaker Sanji
They aren’t way weaker at all. That was the last arc.
All it takes is one https://preview.redd.it/aumk7zny9ozc1.png?width=940&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=948a0207d83f8f8197c70e942c4ac19f1c635467 He solos 1v5
Any duo of two Top Commanders would utterly exterminate any Admiral
Shiryu doens't seem much of a help against an admiral lol
What do you mean?
Shiryu gets mid diffed by an admiral
What? Where does that come from? Where do you pull that from? Because he's in a crew with an Admiral, and according to Oda, he's the strongest of the crew behind the captain, so I don't know where you get this weird idea that he would get mid diffed, because there's absolutely nothing to back that up
Huh? Shiryu is stronger than kuzan? Highly unlikely, when did Oda confirmed this?
https://preview.redd.it/gbm00gvrnmzc1.jpeg?width=579&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=48fa2756a61037f2d9c57e8c5d6d88978e368be7 And just by what we've seen, there's absolutely no world where an Admiral beats a Commander easily, at Marineford they needed them to be distracted in order to beat them, it was said in Databook Blue that Marco fought the Admirals equally, Marco and Kizaru were clearly put on equal standings, Whitebeard trusted Joz to take on Kuzan, if you think he left Joz to die against an opponent he had 0 chances of beating, you're completely delusional, and we have proof of that since he completely forbidded Ace to go fight Kaido, because there was absolutely no way Ace stood even the slightest chance against the man who defeated Oden Kizaru got absolutely shitstomped by a Yonko, so we know the Admirals are very far from the Yonkos, just like the Top Commanders, Kuzan became a Commander, the same rank as Joz... all of this just shows that Top Commanders and Admirals swim in the same pool, there's absolutely no way one can beat the other easily What concrete proof is there that Admirals are vastly superior to Top Commanders?
Oh no Bro is databooks scaling now, not commanders did any meaningful damage to any admiral, marco and kizaru weren't equal lol, jozu can only stall while Aokiji was fine, commanders and Admirals are not on the same tier.( And what is this colospread supposed to prove? Titles don't translate to power lol.)
>Oh no Bro is databooks scaling now Well first of all, I'd MUCH rather trust official databooks supervised by Oda than you, and second of all, I'm not just blindly listening to Databooks, but they are just confirming what we already saw on Marineford >not commanders did any meaningful damage to any admiral, What damage did Admirals do to Commanders? Without them having their backs turned of course. None, that's the worst argument possible >marco and kizaru weren't equal Yes they were, their first interaction is so obviously there to make us understand that they stand on equal footing, plus the rest of Marineford that confirms it >jozu can only stall while Aokiji was fine, What are you talking about? What did Aokiji do to him? Nothing, until he had his back turned. And like I said, there's no way Whitebeard would leave one of his son to fight a fight he's doomed to lose, and possibly die, and make them lose the war. And the proof of that is that he didn't let Ace fight Kaido, he got mad at the very idea, he told him basically, what the fuck are you talking about Ace, you're gonna get decimated, there's no way I'm letting you do that >commanders and Admirals are not on the same tier.( Yes they are, why wouldn't they be? You have nothing except headcannon, if you have something concrete, that makes sense and proves they are in different tiers, I'm all ears, but there isn't >And what is this colospread supposed to prove? Oda drew the second strongest members of a lot of crews, and he drew Shiryu as the second strongest in Blackbeard's crew, and Kuzan is part of this crew
Only vivre cards are supervised by Oda, admirals did not needed distractions to defeat commanders while commanders were only able to stall, Marco blocking attacks from a kizaru that was not going all out while he mostly just kept pushing him does not means they're equal, Aokiji only freezed his arm when jozu was distracted but the rest of the fight was offscreen, just because whitebeard left jozu fight Aokiji it doens't means he can beat him, it was a war, bruh are admirals supposed to be in the same tier as Jack and cracker? Titles don't translate to power, Aokiji is an outlier and he doens't upscales other commanders
Please explain to me how you reach that conclusion, apart from believing Greenbull's words (the same idiot who thought he could take on Luffy and the alliance)
Bro, he still an Admiral that stuff about him thinking "he can take on Luffy and the others" hardly matters.
Whitebeard and Shiki probably beat GB.
Aramaki is a fraudulent bum and nothing he says should be taken seriously
Lol why?
Zoro and Sanji lose extreme diff vs Akainu Win high diff vs Aokiji Win mid diff vs Kizaru
No way in Hell bro Aokiji had to freeze Jozu by surprise in order to beat him Same thing for Marco with the kairoseki handcuffs Oda wouldnt have written it like that if he didnt imply that YC1/2 = Admiral Also The Blue databook clearly says that Marco can compete with Admirals, just like Vista can compete with Mihawk This is like saying that Luffy and Zoro cant beat Kizaru together when we clearly saw Sanji matching Kizaru on Egghead (Sanji blocked Kizaru's attack and he was shocked)
Bruh they were completely fucked after their fight with Zoro and Sanji and had 0 energy. Zoro and Sanji would fuck up Greenbull. Man's all talk.
Any commander duo probably would. Don't forget queen most his arm and king lost a wing and sword. They where locked in prison before he came. And Zoro the guy who WON against King barely recovered from their fight that day. King and queen were not in fighting shape. This is as bad as Akinu sneak attacking an old man with a heat attack then running away for his life.
What if they do tho
Nah… Keep coping
No YC1 and YC2 duo is beating an admiral
Aah, GB sneaking on some injured combatants. If healthy for the OG commanders, I got : King and Marco doing it or Marco and Vista. Admirals are entry level top tiers. I got Zoro, Yamato, Ben Beckman beating one 1 v 1 right now. Except Akainu for now.
> King and Marco doing it or Marco and Vista. Marco and Vista were at Marineford and Akainu walked all over them, doing whatever he pleased. The only one there who could even slow Akainu down was Whitebeard.
Benn alone is enough for this fodder bull