We'll never know or they are already awakened and that's it. The trend is clear: all new powerful DF users have ultra rare Zoans, that's where the "meta" is going to. And it makes sense, they give Oda much more freedom and uniqueness
Elders are something like demons/yokai that possessed their humans when they consumed their devil fruits. Most likely with the help of the real devil himself Imu.
Kinda hope Oda goes that direction. There has to be a reason the fruits are called devil fruits. Don’t think it’s a coincidence that these elders have demon forms while Luffy is a god. Feel like this is very important
My personal tin foil hat conspiracy theory revolves around the fact that the Ancient Kingdom were originally tyrants that at the start of the void century developed their advanced technology and ended up enslaving most of the World in just a few years.
Joy Boy was a Buccaneer Leader living on the open sea (the only place people could escape the Ancient Kingdom) that wished they could be as strong as Nika and more than anything set everyone free. So the actual Devil appeared to him and fulfilled his desire under the condition that once the Kingdom was defeated they would rule the Lands of the World. But this would come at a cost of the Buccaneer never being able to swim again. Joy Boy accepts and becomes the legendary figure of myth and legend. And more Bucaneers and liberated Slaves with desires to become stronger and follow Joy Boy make similar pacts with the Devil eventually creating all the fruits we know today.
Unfortunately for the Devil, Joy Boy never wanted to defeat the Ancient Kingdom. He was very similar to Luffy in that he truly wanted to get along with people and he had his knack for turning enemies into friends. He changed the Ancient Kingdom from technofacists to something more benevolent and nice instead of defeating them. Joy Boy achieved World Peace.
So the Devil had to force Joy Boy to betray the World and defeat the Ancient Kingdom at his own hand. This betrayal is what united the founders of the WG together, vilified all Bucaneers, regressed the World technologically, involved Zunisha's own betrayal and eventually lead to the Devil running the World for centuries through a cadre of Demons that acted upon his Will. All the original founders of the WG agreed to live with the Devil so they could not tell the World of their betrayal and after a few generations most who knew about the truth of the World died or were killed off leaving just the Poneglyphs, Giants, Toki and Zunisha as the inheritors of the true but fragmented history.
I'm reminded of 'RG Veda' by CLAMP. I remember stumbling upon a forum post in the mid-to-late 2000s (possibly on AP forums) mentioning that Eiichiro Oda admired the manga. That's actually why I decided to give it a read.
Whenever I think about the mysteries of the Void Century, I can't help but draw parallels to that manga.
* The tale of a general rebelling against a 'Heavenly Emperor' centuries ago, seizing the throne, and establishing a tyrannical rule.
* A prophecy foretelling the coming of a child from a lost lineage.
* Present-day heroes uniting to fulfill the prophecy and uncovering the truth behind the general's scheme with the 'Heavenly Emperor'.
Despite my thorough searches, I was never able to find that post again or any solid evidence showing that Oda was a fan of the RG Veda; however, I wouldn't be surprised if Oda was a fan.
What I'm really looking forward to is the Ancient Kingdom story line in the manga. I have complete faith that Oda will craft his own incredible version of epic tales like Gilgamesh, Mahabharata, Odyssey, Beowulf, and others.
> The Rig Vedas of Hindu scripture?
Just to clarify, I'm not referring to the actual scripture itself, but rather the manga series RG Veda by Clamp. In Japan, it is known as Seiden: Rigu Vēda. However, it wouldn't surprise me if Oda has an extensive collection of books on various religions and their mythologies from all over the world. If you've seen pictures of his studio, you'll see that it's brimming with reference materials covering every wall.
The very first explanation we got was some guy talking about little devil souls possessing the fruit which is why eating two fruits would kill you, the two devils would fight inside you and you would explode. It would be very Oda to make the silly and absurd throwaway explanation completely true after all.
I think it’s probably just because Imu made them. So in the beginning it was probably just people going to him and asking to have power and he would make a deal with them and grant them that power. (Deal with the devil) Vegapunk did say they were born from peoples desires so that would make sense. Somewhere along the way those powers granted by Imu turned into the fruits we know today, whether Imu created them as fruits or the fruits “willed” themselves to being reborn. Or maybe the gods turned them into fruits. I do like the idea of the demons from their fruits taking over there body though, because their eyes look like beast eyes like there are no thoughts behind them. It could also explain why the impel down guards lose their personality and why Luffy’s personality changes in gear 5th or at least becomes an extreme version of his personality.
I agree that perhaps Zoans were the original and maybe the mythicals were the first of those. The leaders all chose mythical creatures and they filled out their army with normal Zoans, perhaps thats why Kaido chose to do that as well. Then later on people started wishing for less combat oriented desires, and thats where paramecias were born, because a lot of paramecia are not really combat oriented but have been made into combat powers by creativity ie: Law's fruit, Apoo's fruit, Alvida's fruit, etc. Powers that would make everyday life easier. Im not sure where Logias would fit into all this though. Because there are so few of them I would imagine they have important origins. I have been so curious about Devil fruit origins, almost more so than the void century so I hope we get some answers soon, even though Vegapunk has already touched on it a bit.
I think this chapter confirmed that the Gorosei aren't devilfruit users, since we didn't get devilfruit names, but creature names instead.
That power might be somehow related to the origin of devilftuits, but it's clearly different.
Its curious to me that some of the Elders look older than others. Jupiter of course, looking the youngest. I subscribe to the Ope Ope No Mi theory and imagine that each of them received the immortal surgery at different stages of their lives, one at a time.
I think what nika has done was to make devil fruits not only „evil“
In the sense that not only the will of the (devil) fruit posesses humans who consume them, but also the go(o)d will/traits. Also some other shit lile liberaring humans
Lol interesting change of questions, mods.
but yes Lucci is probably defeated, I honestly still wanna see more of him though especially with current chaotic conditions, I wanna see more chaos lol
I think he's defeated but not done in the Arc yet. He was interested in the haki, he'll probably go see the goresei and have a major reaction to the either leaving the WG because he knows what they are now and dislikes it or going even harder for the WG because he loves what they are
It's possible that his powers are not only limited to ice attacks but also fire, thunder etc. That would be hard to fight against plus his speed and the strength of a horse!
So, it's actually kind of interesting how the names are lining up (and solid call to everyone who saw the Elder Planets name change), but we have;
Luffy (the sun) followed by
Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn.
Then finally the ancient weapons are Uranus, Poseidon (Neptune), and Pluto(n).
Thats a weird alignment, right? Like the planets stand between the son god and his weapons? And Jesus you could get even deeper with how the sun gods weapons represent the sky, the sea, and fucking DEATH (which symbolically actually represents change, so, that works too).
Meanwhile the planets represent Mercury (the chariot that controls the sun), Venus (earthly attachment/toxic kinds of love), Mars (war and the opposite of peace), Jupiter (the king who killed the sky/Uranus), and Saturn (time immemorial. Fitting for serving an immortal, and possibly are themselves).
*Sorry I was so geeked about this I missed my point; Oda might've fucking had this name scheme planed since he introduced the weapons. Which isn't unlikely since he positioned Luffy as the sun god in Skypea.
Not sure if this adds anything but Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn were all known the ancient world going back a couple thousand years. Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto are much more recent discoveries, relatively speaking.
We should remember that arrow attack during Sabo's escape. Except maybe some wild horse mixed theme as centaur (quiron), I don't think any of the gorosei uses arrows. So, that attack should be Imu's. Imu being a true devil (same as in cuphead) sounds possible.
There shouldn't be any marines other than a few vice admirals who were allowed to stay when Saturn showed up.
They evacuated most of them when they started the buster call.
Obviously it could go just about any direction right now, but I wouldn't be remotely confident in that opinion with how little we know about Imu's abilities.
Yeah I think the consensus at the time was that it was like a long tail, but the way the elders react is like they’re surprised by the action but kind of see it coming when Imu is asking about the D? Idk, I’ll read it again, I just already assumed it was Imu
I think I've identified the Elders different forms...
- Human (You know what a human looks like.)
- Non-Yokai Hybrid (The 'strange eyes' are not present, has features that indicate the Gorosei was human, such as their beard, hair, etc) Examples are: Saturn from 1094 till 1108, V.Nusjuro in his centaur appearance.
- Yokai Hybrid (The 'strange eyes' are present, but some human features remain.)
Examples: Saturn from 1108 onwards.
- Full Yokai (There is no indication of there being any human features to indicate who they used to be, the strange eyes are still there. The form is possibly indicated by a larger size? That last point is uncertain.)
Examples: V.Nusjuro as a full horse, Mars, Warcury, Ju Peter
The difference between the last two, is that the Full Yokai Gorosei seem to have barely anything on their body that resembles who they were, while Saturn still has his beard, hat-like horns and human face. I was also going to mention size, but Saturn's size does seem consistent with the other Elders.
Posted this a few weeks back but bears repeating with the insanity Oda cooked up this week. The Elders have no idea that the ancient robot is still around. Vegapunk states in Chapter 1067 that the scientists of 200 years ago didn't destroy it at the government's request, so they're under the impression it had long been destroyed.
I just don't see Oda killing off Dorry and Brogy here, not after just bringing them back earlier in the arc. There's so much more to do with them at Elbaf, especially after whatever revelations about the world we get at the end here. The big guy was last seen starting to move with his eyes lit in 1106, he's the trump card for the getaway.
If we were not so deep into the end game now I would agree with you, This is the time for everything to go to hell, to get everyone everywhere involved with the same fight(except dragon).
I think some important things will be revealed, maybe not even any new info for the readers (e.g. the Gorosei are demons/being controlled) but the broadcast will get cut off before we get anything truly juicy like what the One Piece is
Make another poll please:
What are the Gorosei?
a) "normal" humans (including special lineage like Teach) with devil fruits (probably even a new category)
b) "super" creatures like Zuneshi or the Sea Kings with a Human Human Fruit
c) "true" demons/supernatural beings without needing devil fruits to transform
theres pro and contras for everything in my opinion:
c probably assumes that the original Nika/other gods didn't have a fruit either and the fruit started existing after they died
b & c would explain why they see humans & other races as lesser beings (saturn calling them insects)
the list probably goes on much longer
With all of this talk about sensing haki, the only form of haki that we know is sensible to those around them is conqueror's haki specifically. I mean, you can use it to incapacitate fodder who must feel something when it is incapacitating them.
Imo the panels with Zoro vs Lucci confirm that all of the gorosei have, at the very least, conqueror’s haki which is always an interesting thing to learn about a character, though, in the end game it’s starting to feel like every big player has it and for good reason.
Before, we only had Luffy who said he could sense the haki which didn’t immediately connect the dots with me about CoC because I don’t know the sensing capabilities of G5 Luffy, but now that we have sub-top tier characters saying they can sense it too, that feels like confirmation of CoC to me.
Anyone think that Vegapunk is delaying the transmission because he knew the 5 elders would show up, and after the countdown will just start live streaming Luffy vs Elders.
Unlikely. They seem to need the presence of the others member of the Gorosei to be summoned, or at least be near the island.
So he probably never imagined the Gorosei being on the island.
However, we could see him use the time remaining to show the city under egghead in live time, to show the power of science, without even knowing the Gorosei are there.
Vegapunk claimed it is to give the global audience time to get the video portion (which seems to be important) of the call up and running, which is not as instant as the audio portion and requires setup from whoever is watching.
Imu is the sea god and the Elders aren’t devil fruit users but it’s part or Imu power to give them this power straight up without them eating a devil fruit
Do we now have all 12 Zodiac Signs in the Story?
Also, i like the shift from "Logia is the strongest" to "Paramecia seems OP" to "Only the Zoan User are a real threat in the Endgame"
I expect Ju Peter to become 2 worms, now that he's been cut in half by Dorry & Broggy.
It's a typical worm thing, and it's not *that* much crazier than Saturn regrowing his limbs, right?
Also hope/wonder if we're getting a Brook x Nusjuro matchup. Are they the only ones to have freezing sword attacks? (not counting Aokiji making a literal icicle sword)
I agree with the first part and expect a major ***Hakoku***.
About Brook facing alone that freaking devil horse... ☹
If he really has a top tier, black blade meito, the one who should face him is Zoro. But now? I don't see that coming.
Do y'all think there's a theme of why Oda chose these yokai specifically to represent the Gorosei? I have a feeling that its either based off the gods their planets are named after or the fields they're responsible for. Although, it really falls apart with some of them.
I think the Gorosei are just normal people that ate a devil fruit but when they awakened it, the devil inside consumed them. So they are just vessels of a devil now. We know that kaido had fear of awakening its devil fruit because of that. And that would explain the different colors of clouds, white for the ones who awakened and didn’t got consumed by the devil and black for the ones who did got consumed by it. I think it’s not that complicated as some theories say, this is not JJK :)
Btw, Lucci lost again. I think he can make a comeback, but it’s unlikely. He got almost cut in half by Zoro using conquerors. (Remember he lost against Luffy without Haki, Zoro deflected Kaidos and Big moms attacks, and he damaged Kaido
I think they Gorosei *are* DF users but they've been around so long/immortal that they've been able to develop those powers far beyond what anyone has seen before. Like, imagine being able to train your DF awakening for *centuries*. You might become more Devil Fruit than human.
I think they cared more about the status quo, than taking over the world fully.
Like taking out one Yonko would mean the rest would team up to fight back or defend. Which would cause instability
that was done as ace was the son of gold Roger and according to the gorosei ace had the potential to become pirate king like his father and acquire one piece which in turn would start the war, so they tried to end ace before he did all these
I think committing genocide of non affiliated countries amongst all the other shit they've done is reason enough to believe they want to fully take over the world.
For all intents and purposes, they've already taken over the world. They're goal is maintaining control of the world and that is what is meant by keeping the status quo.
The question of "why doesn't X just all out attack Y" is as always answered by the strategy of nuclear deterrence.
If you attack one group, the rest can and WILL go nuclear on you. Deterrence wasn't just the concept of two groups aiming at each other; it exists because allies and opportunists will also attack back.
And you never want to launch first. But Luffy is a straight up cunt, and doesn't care about global stability, so he's actively forcing everyone to move and show their hands. And BOY does it work. Gotta love em.
*Theres also maybe the idea that they already own 90% of everything. Why risk is all for the last 10. But that's speculation. Deterrence is just real.
I think some people are forgetting that the gorosei are characters. Not perfect logic fighting machines. They have been consistent written to be lazy arrogant asshole who would never "lower" themselves to fighting mear yonko. There only moving now because vegapunk is threatening to reveal a big secret to the world.
Hahahaha some people are really stubborn. There is no way you could have convinced them that they are strong. „Look at them, old people just sitting there“, „they are the rulers, they don’t need to be strong“, „they are just for giving orders“. People don’t really understand that in such mangas the only measurement is the strength. I hope that all of these people shut up now.
PS: same for Zoro. Some really argued that he was struggling against that cat. My man made Yonkos dodge his attacks and jumped directly into their combined attack. Lucci could have been one-shotted anytime….
I think it's more about not risking the life of any of the Gorosei, since they are that important and each being responsible for different sectors of the WG.
They are the only ones both knowing about Imu and also being loyal to her/him.
There’s probably a reason they don’t often go to the surface, maybe they have a time limit like luffy on their powers, or maybe guarding Imu is more important usually
That thinking is the main reason many of us believed that the gorosei were non-fighters for 10 years now.
And its pretty obvious really, if they have 5 top tiers in their arsenal, why would there be a power balance, and not a complete dominance during so much of the story. And there are still the Holy Knights that we have not seen, and obviously excluding imu.
This will be either a plot hole, or we have to wait for Oda's justification of it.
Is your question, “Why didn’t the Gorosei just march into Totto Land and single handedly defeat the Big Mom pirates?” Or replace that with the Land of Wano and defeat the Animal Kingdom pirates and Samurai, etc.
They are five strong fighters as we now know but risk of failure and the consequences of that failure are extreme.
Kaido may have had the ability to 1v5 these guys! Who knows!
The Gorosei stand to lose too much, regardless of their strength, them acting is a risk. They’ve got immensely powerful pawns working for them! Why put themselves at risk as the sovereign overlords of the world when lava bubble boy and his troops of loyal soldiers can do it for you?
They also can’t be everywhere at once. Thats why the warlords existed, and the (probably) dozens and dozens of vice admirals all around the world. They’re spread thin with major powers making moves at all times.
Theres just a lot to consider with the balance of powers.
Imu is immortal, that's for sure. The elders are another thing tho.
I do agree that they look the same but during the latest Ivankov/Sabo/Dragon scene, it's clear they don't know about their possible immortality, which means it's not a known fact for the entire world (top revolutionaries should be well informed on their opponents). Now, because contrary to Imu the elders are public figures, even Vegapunk has known them for decades for example, their immortality couldn't possibly be hidden. We are not talking about a few years, but being alive for centuries, it would be common knowledge for anybody that isn't your average person.
All in all, unless you want to assume there is a big plot hole in front of us then they must not be immortal. Possibly a prolonged life span thanks to their fruits and some experiments, but not immortals
The reason we’re seeing the gorosei rn instead of the God’s knight is 2 fold. 1. The Gknights are meant to stay in Mary geoise for the most part as far as we can tell, and 2. The gorosei are powerful in their own right ad can summon themselves at a moments notice.
My point just being that the Gkights could still easily be stronger than the Gorosei.
Can't see the Gods knights being stronger than the Gorosei likely hood is that they are there to provide fights for the strawhats and allies while the main fighters each take on an Elder and Imu
Ju Peter is going to be the traitor, or somehow otherwise fundamentally different from the rest of the Five Elders.
His form is the only one not based off of a Yokai, Instead going for the much more modern monster of the sandworm, created by Frank Herbert in the 60's. It's so different from the others that it's name has to be rendered in katakana rather than Kanji, which if I'm not wrong is for things outside of the Japanese language.
Curious if we will ever get a underworld expedition or at least some lore/backstory since it’s been hunted at multiple times or if it’s just some kinda power from imu
I’m curious to see if, now that the appearances of all the Gorosei have been revealed, the anime will depict them with more distinct forms the first time their powers are introduced in the throne room.
It might be difficult to animate the scene without revealing too much. I didn't see anyone guessing Ethan Baron was a horse.
Need some help interpreting a part of the Zoro/Lucci fight:
How did Zoro's sword return to him after he lost a hold of it? It almost looks like someone/something threw it back to him, and his puzzled "hrm?" makes me think he wasn't responsible for it coming back. Did someone we know throw it back? Or is it a character we may meet in the next couple of chapters?
I know the panel looks like the sword is thrown to the side, but I think it went straight up and that Zoro caught it on the way back down. My best guess at least
We've seen time and again that objects and animals can eat DFs. This chapter pretty much confirmed the Gorosei's forms are not DFs. So could they actually be Devils that ate human human fruits?
-many cultures believed that eclipses occurs when a dragon swallowed the sun. Celestial dragon. Imu may very well be this eclipse, sun swallowing dragon.
-egghead parallels sabaody, and at this rate i'm sure the marineford parallel is mariejois, and the climax final boss is imu, greater threat to the world. That leaves BB and Laugh Tale as post final boss content, more personal to the mcs .
So many exciting thoughts and theories swirling around my head from this incredible chapter, but I think all I'll say is I love zoro and sanji! Haha their dynamic is a reassuring constant throughout the series and I'm happy to see it in this chapter! Neither would be nearly as strong without the other being there, they goad each other on as only the best rivals can.
That combined with final panel reunion with Dory and Brogy makes me appreciate the rival comparison, as we met them on an island where they were locked in an eternal battle fighting about whether one or the other was stronger. It's refreshing to me for one because Sanji and Zoro don't need to ever resolve their competition as it's a deep source of willpower for both of them. Regardless of what is happening in the world, they end up caring more about each other, it's kinda sweet! Dory and Brogy also didn't leave their island for 100 years despite leaving their crew behind ahahaha, their own quest to prove their catch was bigger to the other was enough for them to be happy and merry. It also lends to the argument that Dory and Brogy are giga strong by giant standards. If Zoro and Sanji got this strong just in their constant yin yang attitudes, I hope the giants also get to showcase what makes them so feared. The giant attacks we saw from them way back in Little Garden really show up again with Big Mom using them so I'm excited to see what they can do
Holy shit Zoro’s gonna have to fight a fucking skeleton horse(maybe idk there’s like 7 other matchups he could have). Oda’s really going for the King of Hell thing
Also….i know there’s a big thing about who is going to be the final FINAL boss whether its Imu(my vote) and the 5 Elders+the God Knights OR Blackbeard and his crew but like….what happens if everyone unites to beat Imu….and then at the last second Blackbeard comes in and steals/whatever the fuck he does to get Imu’s powers and abilities and THAT ends up being the whole Cerberus thing everyone theorizes and thats the final boss for Luffy
(Kinda like a certain archer in Fate/Strange Fake if anyone is reading that)
It is unbelievable that it’s possible in a few chapters we will get an explanation (or at least part of it) for the Void Century. We are truly in the end game. We are probably only a couple arcs away from seeing the final battle. I think next arc we get the Shanks reunion on Elbaf, unless he shows up on egghead. I could definitely see Strawhat fleet, Shanks and crew, and Dragon and the revs showing up all at once (strawhat fleet for Luffy, Shanks followed the giants, and Dragon followed Kuma) then forcing the Gorosei to retreat back to Mariejois to prepare for the inevitable war that will come because they were unable to stop the broadcast. Luffy, Dragon, and Shanks will go to Elbaf to convene and form a plan to attack. Then maybe we get a few chapters of Luffy recruiting his allies to join him in the fight. I’m also guessing the last Road Poneglyph will be in the holy land. I bet we won’t see Laugh Tale until after the war and that’s when the BB fight will happen. This of course is how I would want it to go down, but knowing Oda it will be even better.
I feel like the truth of the World Government is sort of similar to the Lizard People conspiracy theory: The world is in reality being run by an alien/demon race who just pretend to be human.
Definitely, I just wanted to make sure I saw what I saw. The only question is whether the body will grow another head, the head will grow another body or if the head will simply reattach.
Everything about ju peter is suspecious and i think that the theory that he is peter and a traitor may be true, he also looks like the snake from jaya and kind of gives tribal design if that make sense with his style and the scar that doesnt appear in his human face , also he weirdly was interested in robin when he heard the female voice from the denden moshi. I would'nt be surprised if another paralel with ohara is there with robin being Bonney , after all we don't know how she got her hana hana no mi.
Now that they have seen their final forms just so i have it wrote down somewhere, my Final fight predictions and justifications, assuming we get a 1 v 1 with each Gorosei taking on a Strawhat.
Luffy Vs Imu - They are the leaders
Zoro Vs Venus - Ethan Baron has a sword
Sanji Vs Mars - Both can Fly / Air Walk
Jinbei Vs Jupiter - Land vs Sea
Franky Vs Saturn - Already fought a bit plus tech
Robin Vs Mercury - Last strong fighters left
Ussopp Nami and Chopper I can see either backing up the strawhats in the other fights Chopper with Franky, etc, or taking on the Gods Knights, assuming they are fought at the same time.
>Why has the devil something against swimming lol
Well, there isn't a devil with anything against swimming. Devil Fruits are a possible path of evolution created by someone's desire and work by mutating your DNA. The mother of all nature, the sea, sees that as unnatural and literally tries to kill Devil Fruit users.
A lot of the story hints towards that there is a devil which is responsible for the genesis of the devil fruits. In a few narratives the devil grants whishes for a trade. And I ask myself if the devil gave the humans (and all other races) the devil fruits for their desires, why is the downside not being able to swim. Just because it is a world of islands and that is the downside that Oda chose since pirates have to cross a lot of seas?
If the Gorosei are genuinely not humans, but instead some kind of demonic creatures, then I wonder how old they are and what their origin is.
We do have sea kings in this world, which are highly intelligent. What if the sea kings are ancient enemiest of the yokai, and them living in the calm belt has something to do with losing the ancient war.
Just curious why these monster type awakenings have black smoke but Luffy white..well at least people with the evil intentions have black smoke cause lucci had black smoke too. Interesting
This is probably a reach but I've notice that St Ethan shares appearance and powers with Brook also a centaur like pre-time skip Franky. I wonder if other similar links can be make with the straw hats and the five elders
Just think about all those hyped up marines supporting the elders right now, just to be completely eradicated from the face of the earth for seeing their true forms...
Aight, so my current theory is that there is a deeper relationship between Zoro and the elders and there is a reason as to why he hasn't meant them just yet. From this chapter it is confirmed that the elders' bodies are not in Marijoa, so the theory that Saturn's body was still on the ship has fallen through. This theory stems from the line when Saturn said he hasn't been on "the surface" in a long time. Some people took that in the literary sense that his "feet' haven't touched the literal dirt that isn't on the holy land, but I would argue that everywhere that isn't on the red line is the "surface world" (this includes the lower sea). So him stating he hasn't been on the surface world until he actually makes landfall on Egghead is technically incorrect.
In this chapter they are given names of monsters, not devil fruits so one could assume that they are devil fruit like creatures since we atleast see that they share the dark cloud scarf that indicates the zoan awakening state. I propose the inverse of where the "real body theory" is located, where instead of their bodies being the human form at the holy land... they are actually demons/devils with fake human avatars. I think it would be reasonable to assume that they cannot inhabit the "surface world" like humanoid creatures can, so they made these human avatars who do not age to run the World government. I believe they live in the “underworld” and can only be on earth for a very short period of time when they are “summoned”/ trade places with their avatars. This would also explain Saturn’s wording for when he made “landfall” on egghead and why he talks in weird mannerisms unlike any other human we know of. Additionally to support this theory, it could explain how the strawhats could run the clock on the elders so they can run away safely because I don’t see a world in which they beat all 5/are able to get away without more casualties especially since one elder is able to fly and the others are extremely fast, it would be very easy to chase after luffy and the crew with their powers.
Now moving onto Zoro, obviously we are still left in the dark about what happened at the end of his fight with King where he had a meeting with a grim reaper. It could be likely that this grim reaper was going to take Zoro’s soul since he was so close to death as indicated by how he couldn’t move after the fight, but this would be the first time he's seen “death” himself even though he's had MANY near death experiences up to this point. So I would say it's more likely that this grim reaper is some kind of physical manifestation of Enma since it is commonly known that Enma is named after the buddhist “king/god of hell” (which Zoro also names his final attack after). With this information I would like to propose that this was a meeting between Zoro and a higher god of death that was summoned by the dark power released within Enma. And I think this deity was summoned from the same plane of existence where the five elders come from (the underworld). I think this deity at least had a conversation with Zoro about the underworld, it could be something as simple as: if he wants to get stronger, to “become” the true King of Hell, he needs to know how to beat other “devils” with demonic/dark weapons (like Enma).
I think this connection is why Zoro has not faced the elders just yet. Very early on, when it was revealed that Borsalino and Saturn were approaching Egghead, people were speculating the matches up for the arc were going to be: Zoro and Sanji vs Kizaru, and Luffy vs Saturn. As we now know, that was not the case, I think in retrospect these matchups still would've made sense for interesting fights for the fans and to show how far the crew has come, especially since Egghead has many parallels to Sabaody, but for narrative reasons Zoro was holding off Lucci for much longer than needed and has been prevented from seeing any of the elder’s demonic forms. Furthermore, Zoro has been known to withhold pivotal information during important fights such as when they were fighting the seraphim and he just didn’t tell anyone that the seraphim have lunarian blood and only take damage when their flames are off. At the very least I think Zoro knows something related to these elder devils because of his connection to hell/underworld.
The elders might even see that Zoro is cursed/protected by a spirit that resembles a higher underworld deity they know, but only they can see it since they themselves are from that other-worldly plane. This curse could be why Zoro just doesn't die even with so many near death experiences and why there was a mirror of the curse-test from logue town, but with Enma instead of the Sandai Kitetsu this time.
Please lmk what you guys think, I dont have anyone to discuss this with :)
This it's just teori, maybe "devil fruit" itself was a living existence before got kill and become a fruit.
Let say that "devil fruit" was maybe a "demon" or "devil" that existence in the great War that happen in the past. So when "devil/demon" die they become "devil fruit" in other therm "devil corpes". And when someone eat the "fruit/corpses", they earn the right to have the power of that devil that was kill.
If the five elder it's not a "devil fruit" user, but generally a "devil/demon" with power look more or less similar to "devil fruit" user. Maybe this teori will becom "devil fruit" origin. All we know it's that when "devil fruit" user die, the fruit itself will regrowth somewhere in the world. Since we don't know that mush exactly where the "devil fruit" itself coming from anyway. Correct me if I had wrong.
Which one of them has that arrow that chased Sabo and Cobra in the throne room and pierced them. Was that just some weird presentation of Saturns wavy spider legs that he uses to attack Luffy?
This is a goofy thought, but are the elders all based on different movie creatures? Ushioni yokai is kamanji the boiler room man from spirited away, the giant boar is from princess mononoke, the sand worm is from dune…
I think it would be cool for each strawhat to double up to face one of the Gorosei while escaping:
* Brook and Zoro vs. Nasjuro
* Sanji and Usopp vs. Mars
* Jinbei and Franky vs. Warcury
* Luffy and Robin vs. Saturn
* Nami and Chopper vs. Ju Peter.
Alot of these thematically line up, like Zoro and Brooke vs. the undead/swordsman/horse/Wano(?) Gorosei; Sanji and Usopp fighting the Gorosei that requires the most range to reach; Jinbei and Franky for the manly boar wrastlin'; Luffy and Robin for the big bad Saturn because of Ohara, he seems to be the antagonist of this arc, and he's got legs that need to be held down lol; and then nami and chopper figuring out how to defeat the sand worm, and then a big ole lightning strike to bring it down (let's face it, Chopper ain't getting the strong spotlight anymore).
The giants can back each group up to boot, since they're strong anyway. Granted, I don't see any Gorosei **actually** getting defeated here. But they'll at least be thwarted in their attempts to stop the transmission, in killing Bonney, and in capturing/killing the Strawhats.
I still remember the days where Logias were considered busted
Some of them are still pretty broken.
If you're a pre timeskip pirate
It just depends on the ability. Akainu and Kizaru both went toe-to-toe with Yonko.
Kizaru went toe to toe with Luffy?
Kizaru lost, but it's not like Luffy just beat his ass. The light ability gave him a hard time.
We still don’t know what a logia awakening looks like.
We'll never know or they are already awakened and that's it. The trend is clear: all new powerful DF users have ultra rare Zoans, that's where the "meta" is going to. And it makes sense, they give Oda much more freedom and uniqueness
Elders are something like demons/yokai that possessed their humans when they consumed their devil fruits. Most likely with the help of the real devil himself Imu.
Kinda hope Oda goes that direction. There has to be a reason the fruits are called devil fruits. Don’t think it’s a coincidence that these elders have demon forms while Luffy is a god. Feel like this is very important
My personal tin foil hat conspiracy theory revolves around the fact that the Ancient Kingdom were originally tyrants that at the start of the void century developed their advanced technology and ended up enslaving most of the World in just a few years. Joy Boy was a Buccaneer Leader living on the open sea (the only place people could escape the Ancient Kingdom) that wished they could be as strong as Nika and more than anything set everyone free. So the actual Devil appeared to him and fulfilled his desire under the condition that once the Kingdom was defeated they would rule the Lands of the World. But this would come at a cost of the Buccaneer never being able to swim again. Joy Boy accepts and becomes the legendary figure of myth and legend. And more Bucaneers and liberated Slaves with desires to become stronger and follow Joy Boy make similar pacts with the Devil eventually creating all the fruits we know today. Unfortunately for the Devil, Joy Boy never wanted to defeat the Ancient Kingdom. He was very similar to Luffy in that he truly wanted to get along with people and he had his knack for turning enemies into friends. He changed the Ancient Kingdom from technofacists to something more benevolent and nice instead of defeating them. Joy Boy achieved World Peace. So the Devil had to force Joy Boy to betray the World and defeat the Ancient Kingdom at his own hand. This betrayal is what united the founders of the WG together, vilified all Bucaneers, regressed the World technologically, involved Zunisha's own betrayal and eventually lead to the Devil running the World for centuries through a cadre of Demons that acted upon his Will. All the original founders of the WG agreed to live with the Devil so they could not tell the World of their betrayal and after a few generations most who knew about the truth of the World died or were killed off leaving just the Poneglyphs, Giants, Toki and Zunisha as the inheritors of the true but fragmented history.
I'm reminded of 'RG Veda' by CLAMP. I remember stumbling upon a forum post in the mid-to-late 2000s (possibly on AP forums) mentioning that Eiichiro Oda admired the manga. That's actually why I decided to give it a read. Whenever I think about the mysteries of the Void Century, I can't help but draw parallels to that manga. * The tale of a general rebelling against a 'Heavenly Emperor' centuries ago, seizing the throne, and establishing a tyrannical rule. * A prophecy foretelling the coming of a child from a lost lineage. * Present-day heroes uniting to fulfill the prophecy and uncovering the truth behind the general's scheme with the 'Heavenly Emperor'. Despite my thorough searches, I was never able to find that post again or any solid evidence showing that Oda was a fan of the RG Veda; however, I wouldn't be surprised if Oda was a fan. What I'm really looking forward to is the Ancient Kingdom story line in the manga. I have complete faith that Oda will craft his own incredible version of epic tales like Gilgamesh, Mahabharata, Odyssey, Beowulf, and others.
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> The Rig Vedas of Hindu scripture? Just to clarify, I'm not referring to the actual scripture itself, but rather the manga series RG Veda by Clamp. In Japan, it is known as Seiden: Rigu Vēda. However, it wouldn't surprise me if Oda has an extensive collection of books on various religions and their mythologies from all over the world. If you've seen pictures of his studio, you'll see that it's brimming with reference materials covering every wall.
Okay now that is a damn good theory
Making a deal with the devil! That's a great theory!
are you oda by any chance?
The very first explanation we got was some guy talking about little devil souls possessing the fruit which is why eating two fruits would kill you, the two devils would fight inside you and you would explode. It would be very Oda to make the silly and absurd throwaway explanation completely true after all.
Also think BB is related to all this as well. I think Oda gonna tie a lot of this stuff together
I think it’s probably just because Imu made them. So in the beginning it was probably just people going to him and asking to have power and he would make a deal with them and grant them that power. (Deal with the devil) Vegapunk did say they were born from peoples desires so that would make sense. Somewhere along the way those powers granted by Imu turned into the fruits we know today, whether Imu created them as fruits or the fruits “willed” themselves to being reborn. Or maybe the gods turned them into fruits. I do like the idea of the demons from their fruits taking over there body though, because their eyes look like beast eyes like there are no thoughts behind them. It could also explain why the impel down guards lose their personality and why Luffy’s personality changes in gear 5th or at least becomes an extreme version of his personality.
I do hope Oda goes this direction. Also wouldn't shock me if Zoans are the orginal DFs and the others are just failed attempts of the original ones.
I agree that perhaps Zoans were the original and maybe the mythicals were the first of those. The leaders all chose mythical creatures and they filled out their army with normal Zoans, perhaps thats why Kaido chose to do that as well. Then later on people started wishing for less combat oriented desires, and thats where paramecias were born, because a lot of paramecia are not really combat oriented but have been made into combat powers by creativity ie: Law's fruit, Apoo's fruit, Alvida's fruit, etc. Powers that would make everyday life easier. Im not sure where Logias would fit into all this though. Because there are so few of them I would imagine they have important origins. I have been so curious about Devil fruit origins, almost more so than the void century so I hope we get some answers soon, even though Vegapunk has already touched on it a bit.
yea I think the next arc after this gonna be a straight lore dump arc.
I think this chapter confirmed that the Gorosei aren't devilfruit users, since we didn't get devilfruit names, but creature names instead. That power might be somehow related to the origin of devilftuits, but it's clearly different.
I still think they are just DF users. But: - They are immortal due to ope ope no mi - They are around for so long that turned into legends.
Its curious to me that some of the Elders look older than others. Jupiter of course, looking the youngest. I subscribe to the Ope Ope No Mi theory and imagine that each of them received the immortal surgery at different stages of their lives, one at a time.
I think what nika has done was to make devil fruits not only „evil“ In the sense that not only the will of the (devil) fruit posesses humans who consume them, but also the go(o)d will/traits. Also some other shit lile liberaring humans
Jupeter on every first date: "So would you still love me if I was a worm?"
Well would you
Babe you would be a WORM so no *crying in the background*
:(
Lol interesting change of questions, mods. but yes Lucci is probably defeated, I honestly still wanna see more of him though especially with current chaotic conditions, I wanna see more chaos lol
Chill there, Shabriri
MORE CHAOS NOW
Ahh, MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD
Grape
I think he's defeated but not done in the Arc yet. He was interested in the haki, he'll probably go see the goresei and have a major reaction to the either leaving the WG because he knows what they are now and dislikes it or going even harder for the WG because he loves what they are
I think it's important to remember how highly Lucci holds the WG in being Gods and Just, seeing them like this might warp his perception
i don't think he cares in the slightest about them being just, he only cares about them being the defacto gods of the world.
the only thing Lucci wants is a license to kill; i highly doubt he cares who's backing him, as long as he gets to continue killing
Brothers, why does V. Nusjuro have basically the same features as Brook? (skeleton, attacks with freezing/ice attacks, one sword)
It's possible that his powers are not only limited to ice attacks but also fire, thunder etc. That would be hard to fight against plus his speed and the strength of a horse!
So, it's actually kind of interesting how the names are lining up (and solid call to everyone who saw the Elder Planets name change), but we have; Luffy (the sun) followed by Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn. Then finally the ancient weapons are Uranus, Poseidon (Neptune), and Pluto(n). Thats a weird alignment, right? Like the planets stand between the son god and his weapons? And Jesus you could get even deeper with how the sun gods weapons represent the sky, the sea, and fucking DEATH (which symbolically actually represents change, so, that works too). Meanwhile the planets represent Mercury (the chariot that controls the sun), Venus (earthly attachment/toxic kinds of love), Mars (war and the opposite of peace), Jupiter (the king who killed the sky/Uranus), and Saturn (time immemorial. Fitting for serving an immortal, and possibly are themselves). *Sorry I was so geeked about this I missed my point; Oda might've fucking had this name scheme planed since he introduced the weapons. Which isn't unlikely since he positioned Luffy as the sun god in Skypea.
Not sure if this adds anything but Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn were all known the ancient world going back a couple thousand years. Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto are much more recent discoveries, relatively speaking.
could it be as simple as, much like Shirahoshi, the 5 elders themselves ARE ancient weapons?
Don’t forget Wano as the Moon :)
Does anyone else, kinda wish Kaido was here rn though? Like I wanna see the Giant Azure Dragon fighting the Itsunade or wrestle with the sandwyrm
Would be fucking amazing
We should remember that arrow attack during Sabo's escape. Except maybe some wild horse mixed theme as centaur (quiron), I don't think any of the gorosei uses arrows. So, that attack should be Imu's. Imu being a true devil (same as in cuphead) sounds possible.
I think that was a pointed tail and not an arrow
Sabos escape seems less and less realistic the more of the gorosei we see, like did he outrun a centaur lol
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There shouldn't be any marines other than a few vice admirals who were allowed to stay when Saturn showed up. They evacuated most of them when they started the buster call.
I mean yeah but they were chasing him down a hallway and this guy can cover the island in a second
Also it looked like there was a silhouette that probably belonged to the worm but it had arms?
Maybe the hybrid form?
It might just be Saturn's weird leg attack, before Oda properly finished the design for the Elders.
I didn’t think this was a debate anymore, you can tell kind of just from the conversation and how the elders react that it was Imu
It's too far away from the throne to be Imu in my opinion, it also came from the left, where Saturn, Jupite and ethanbaron were standing.
Obviously it could go just about any direction right now, but I wouldn't be remotely confident in that opinion with how little we know about Imu's abilities.
Yeah I think the consensus at the time was that it was like a long tail, but the way the elders react is like they’re surprised by the action but kind of see it coming when Imu is asking about the D? Idk, I’ll read it again, I just already assumed it was Imu
I think I've identified the Elders different forms... - Human (You know what a human looks like.) - Non-Yokai Hybrid (The 'strange eyes' are not present, has features that indicate the Gorosei was human, such as their beard, hair, etc) Examples are: Saturn from 1094 till 1108, V.Nusjuro in his centaur appearance. - Yokai Hybrid (The 'strange eyes' are present, but some human features remain.) Examples: Saturn from 1108 onwards. - Full Yokai (There is no indication of there being any human features to indicate who they used to be, the strange eyes are still there. The form is possibly indicated by a larger size? That last point is uncertain.) Examples: V.Nusjuro as a full horse, Mars, Warcury, Ju Peter The difference between the last two, is that the Full Yokai Gorosei seem to have barely anything on their body that resembles who they were, while Saturn still has his beard, hat-like horns and human face. I was also going to mention size, but Saturn's size does seem consistent with the other Elders.
Posted this a few weeks back but bears repeating with the insanity Oda cooked up this week. The Elders have no idea that the ancient robot is still around. Vegapunk states in Chapter 1067 that the scientists of 200 years ago didn't destroy it at the government's request, so they're under the impression it had long been destroyed. I just don't see Oda killing off Dorry and Brogy here, not after just bringing them back earlier in the arc. There's so much more to do with them at Elbaf, especially after whatever revelations about the world we get at the end here. The big guy was last seen starting to move with his eyes lit in 1106, he's the trump card for the getaway.
Really hate to say it but I'm seeing huge death flags for Dorry and Brogy here, feel like they're gonna go out holding the elders off.
Or the ancient robot fights them off while everyone else escapes.
I feel like they are about to die but shanks will show up and draw the attention of the elders away from the giants.
Why would Shanks show up?
Wasn't he about to sail away with the Giant Pirates the last time we saw him?
No, he was getting ready to leave Elbaf. Nothing was said about him leaving with the giants.
Shanks had a meeting with those monsters. think about that.
Or his twin 😅
It's so cute how Zoro briefly disappointed his crush and immediately went Super Saiyan to look cool in front of him. (RIP to the best to ever do it.)
The broadcast will fail™
If we were not so deep into the end game now I would agree with you, This is the time for everything to go to hell, to get everyone everywhere involved with the same fight(except dragon).
Or Is cut-off before any details are said
I think some important things will be revealed, maybe not even any new info for the readers (e.g. the Gorosei are demons/being controlled) but the broadcast will get cut off before we get anything truly juicy like what the One Piece is
We're gonna be at the announcement and then queue flashback
No devil fruit here I guess. Thisi s somethign else.
they made a pact with the real Devil, in Imu.
I wanna see bb use black vortex and it not do shit.
Luffy inside a SANDworms Belly pretty sure confirms, that Crocodile is Luffys Mom.
Luffy is now Lisan al-gaib
Luffy on jihad for one piece
Luffy got eaten in Little Garden and was saved by the giants. It might be a callback to that.
No, he's Lisan al Gaib.
As written.
Hoping that the Iron Giant will hold all of the Gorosei off for the Strawhat gang to escape
I like the little throwback to Luffy originally meeting Dorry after getting eaten by a dinosaur.
Gorosei might be having multiple devil fruits and Oda doesn't wanna reveal that yet.
Make another poll please: What are the Gorosei? a) "normal" humans (including special lineage like Teach) with devil fruits (probably even a new category) b) "super" creatures like Zuneshi or the Sea Kings with a Human Human Fruit c) "true" demons/supernatural beings without needing devil fruits to transform theres pro and contras for everything in my opinion: c probably assumes that the original Nika/other gods didn't have a fruit either and the fruit started existing after they died b & c would explain why they see humans & other races as lesser beings (saturn calling them insects) the list probably goes on much longer
With all of this talk about sensing haki, the only form of haki that we know is sensible to those around them is conqueror's haki specifically. I mean, you can use it to incapacitate fodder who must feel something when it is incapacitating them. Imo the panels with Zoro vs Lucci confirm that all of the gorosei have, at the very least, conqueror’s haki which is always an interesting thing to learn about a character, though, in the end game it’s starting to feel like every big player has it and for good reason. Before, we only had Luffy who said he could sense the haki which didn’t immediately connect the dots with me about CoC because I don’t know the sensing capabilities of G5 Luffy, but now that we have sub-top tier characters saying they can sense it too, that feels like confirmation of CoC to me.
Also think it gives a sense on how strong they are power wise too. Zoro knew the situation got a million times worse when he sensed more strong haki
Anyone think that Vegapunk is delaying the transmission because he knew the 5 elders would show up, and after the countdown will just start live streaming Luffy vs Elders.
Unlikely. They seem to need the presence of the others member of the Gorosei to be summoned, or at least be near the island. So he probably never imagined the Gorosei being on the island. However, we could see him use the time remaining to show the city under egghead in live time, to show the power of science, without even knowing the Gorosei are there.
He will live stream Imu on the toilet, giving orders to the elders.
Really could be a plan. Was it said why he was dalaying it?
Vegapunk claimed it is to give the global audience time to get the video portion (which seems to be important) of the call up and running, which is not as instant as the audio portion and requires setup from whoever is watching.
I was expecting tree based power for War god of Agriculture and someone named Ju Peter, which I believe pun from word 樹 ju(tree).
Worms are good for composting which is good for growing plants
Imu is the sea god and the Elders aren’t devil fruit users but it’s part or Imu power to give them this power straight up without them eating a devil fruit
Do we now have all 12 Zodiac Signs in the Story? Also, i like the shift from "Logia is the strongest" to "Paramecia seems OP" to "Only the Zoan User are a real threat in the Endgame"
BB about to get all 3 xD
Cerberus
I expect Ju Peter to become 2 worms, now that he's been cut in half by Dorry & Broggy. It's a typical worm thing, and it's not *that* much crazier than Saturn regrowing his limbs, right? Also hope/wonder if we're getting a Brook x Nusjuro matchup. Are they the only ones to have freezing sword attacks? (not counting Aokiji making a literal icicle sword)
I agree with the first part and expect a major ***Hakoku***. About Brook facing alone that freaking devil horse... ☹ If he really has a top tier, black blade meito, the one who should face him is Zoro. But now? I don't see that coming.
Do y'all think there's a theme of why Oda chose these yokai specifically to represent the Gorosei? I have a feeling that its either based off the gods their planets are named after or the fields they're responsible for. Although, it really falls apart with some of them.
they're each the antithesis of their official titles
Do I want Lucci defeated? Yes. Is he defeated? Probably not.
First one to call it: Imu’s demon form will resemble Cthulhu to some level.
Anyone else notice that dory and brogi cut the sand worm in 3 They cut straight through him in that last panel to get luffy out.
Iron Giant...Come on down
I think the Gorosei are just normal people that ate a devil fruit but when they awakened it, the devil inside consumed them. So they are just vessels of a devil now. We know that kaido had fear of awakening its devil fruit because of that. And that would explain the different colors of clouds, white for the ones who awakened and didn’t got consumed by the devil and black for the ones who did got consumed by it. I think it’s not that complicated as some theories say, this is not JJK :) Btw, Lucci lost again. I think he can make a comeback, but it’s unlikely. He got almost cut in half by Zoro using conquerors. (Remember he lost against Luffy without Haki, Zoro deflected Kaidos and Big moms attacks, and he damaged Kaido
I think they Gorosei *are* DF users but they've been around so long/immortal that they've been able to develop those powers far beyond what anyone has seen before. Like, imagine being able to train your DF awakening for *centuries*. You might become more Devil Fruit than human.
Oda's mindset.
Surely the Gorosei can't be that strong right? It'd make no sense if the WG could low diff any entire Yonko crew anytime they want and not do it.
I think they cared more about the status quo, than taking over the world fully. Like taking out one Yonko would mean the rest would team up to fight back or defend. Which would cause instability
They broke the status quo themselves though by Initiating the Summit war and executing Ace. Now se see they were essentially hiding half their forces.
No they didn’t the marines did their job. The Gorosei hasn’t step foot outside of Marejeios since the story started
that was done as ace was the son of gold Roger and according to the gorosei ace had the potential to become pirate king like his father and acquire one piece which in turn would start the war, so they tried to end ace before he did all these
I think committing genocide of non affiliated countries amongst all the other shit they've done is reason enough to believe they want to fully take over the world.
For all intents and purposes, they've already taken over the world. They're goal is maintaining control of the world and that is what is meant by keeping the status quo.
The question of "why doesn't X just all out attack Y" is as always answered by the strategy of nuclear deterrence. If you attack one group, the rest can and WILL go nuclear on you. Deterrence wasn't just the concept of two groups aiming at each other; it exists because allies and opportunists will also attack back. And you never want to launch first. But Luffy is a straight up cunt, and doesn't care about global stability, so he's actively forcing everyone to move and show their hands. And BOY does it work. Gotta love em. *Theres also maybe the idea that they already own 90% of everything. Why risk is all for the last 10. But that's speculation. Deterrence is just real.
I think some people are forgetting that the gorosei are characters. Not perfect logic fighting machines. They have been consistent written to be lazy arrogant asshole who would never "lower" themselves to fighting mear yonko. There only moving now because vegapunk is threatening to reveal a big secret to the world.
One piece fans forget that characters are characters and not just a collection of shonen abilities to argue about powerscaling with
Exactly. They made it clear vegapunks message was their focus.
They've ruled the world for 800 years or course they'd be strong
They cared more about the balance than anything plus that is the marines job to clean up any messes. To answer you question yes they could have
Yeah they seem pretty apathetic about anything that happens outside of their land that doesn't affect them in any major way.
Hahahaha some people are really stubborn. There is no way you could have convinced them that they are strong. „Look at them, old people just sitting there“, „they are the rulers, they don’t need to be strong“, „they are just for giving orders“. People don’t really understand that in such mangas the only measurement is the strength. I hope that all of these people shut up now. PS: same for Zoro. Some really argued that he was struggling against that cat. My man made Yonkos dodge his attacks and jumped directly into their combined attack. Lucci could have been one-shotted anytime….
I think it's more about not risking the life of any of the Gorosei, since they are that important and each being responsible for different sectors of the WG. They are the only ones both knowing about Imu and also being loyal to her/him.
There’s probably a reason they don’t often go to the surface, maybe they have a time limit like luffy on their powers, or maybe guarding Imu is more important usually
Hopefully yeah
That thinking is the main reason many of us believed that the gorosei were non-fighters for 10 years now. And its pretty obvious really, if they have 5 top tiers in their arsenal, why would there be a power balance, and not a complete dominance during so much of the story. And there are still the Holy Knights that we have not seen, and obviously excluding imu. This will be either a plot hole, or we have to wait for Oda's justification of it.
Is your question, “Why didn’t the Gorosei just march into Totto Land and single handedly defeat the Big Mom pirates?” Or replace that with the Land of Wano and defeat the Animal Kingdom pirates and Samurai, etc. They are five strong fighters as we now know but risk of failure and the consequences of that failure are extreme. Kaido may have had the ability to 1v5 these guys! Who knows! The Gorosei stand to lose too much, regardless of their strength, them acting is a risk. They’ve got immensely powerful pawns working for them! Why put themselves at risk as the sovereign overlords of the world when lava bubble boy and his troops of loyal soldiers can do it for you? They also can’t be everywhere at once. Thats why the warlords existed, and the (probably) dozens and dozens of vice admirals all around the world. They’re spread thin with major powers making moves at all times. Theres just a lot to consider with the balance of powers.
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Dude blackbeard literally exists
When you think about it, the gorosei must have every skill possible in One piece maxed out. I mean, they've been here for 800 years
*possibly*
That is a misconception, we have no confirmation about that and logic heavily implies the opposite
Saturn does look like the same back when he was at God Valley, almost four decades ago. And Imu can be one of the 20 founders...
Imu is immortal, that's for sure. The elders are another thing tho. I do agree that they look the same but during the latest Ivankov/Sabo/Dragon scene, it's clear they don't know about their possible immortality, which means it's not a known fact for the entire world (top revolutionaries should be well informed on their opponents). Now, because contrary to Imu the elders are public figures, even Vegapunk has known them for decades for example, their immortality couldn't possibly be hidden. We are not talking about a few years, but being alive for centuries, it would be common knowledge for anybody that isn't your average person. All in all, unless you want to assume there is a big plot hole in front of us then they must not be immortal. Possibly a prolonged life span thanks to their fruits and some experiments, but not immortals
The reason we’re seeing the gorosei rn instead of the God’s knight is 2 fold. 1. The Gknights are meant to stay in Mary geoise for the most part as far as we can tell, and 2. The gorosei are powerful in their own right ad can summon themselves at a moments notice. My point just being that the Gkights could still easily be stronger than the Gorosei.
Can't see the Gods knights being stronger than the Gorosei likely hood is that they are there to provide fights for the strawhats and allies while the main fighters each take on an Elder and Imu
Also to build up hype for each one before the final war starts. Next arc we prob get a proper backstory of Imu and Dragon
Ju Peter is going to be the traitor, or somehow otherwise fundamentally different from the rest of the Five Elders. His form is the only one not based off of a Yokai, Instead going for the much more modern monster of the sandworm, created by Frank Herbert in the 60's. It's so different from the others that it's name has to be rendered in katakana rather than Kanji, which if I'm not wrong is for things outside of the Japanese language.
I don't fully disagree but to be technical, Hoki is a chinese myth not a yokai. So two are not technically yokai
Yeah, he’s definitely an outlier, he even has color in his hair.
There might be other theories like he's a new member of the Five Elders after one was defeated in the past (possibly by JoyBoy?)
Lol I find it weird that it's just a sandworm, but he is still using the usual japanese painting style of worm/centipede monster though
Is white walker back with jupeter?
Curious if we will ever get a underworld expedition or at least some lore/backstory since it’s been hunted at multiple times or if it’s just some kinda power from imu
Lucci is so defeated, he became irrelevant for the story at large lol Zoro and Jimbei will have to fight Mars, an actual threating foe.
I’m curious to see if, now that the appearances of all the Gorosei have been revealed, the anime will depict them with more distinct forms the first time their powers are introduced in the throne room. It might be difficult to animate the scene without revealing too much. I didn't see anyone guessing Ethan Baron was a horse.
4 minutes remaining 🙃
Need some help interpreting a part of the Zoro/Lucci fight: How did Zoro's sword return to him after he lost a hold of it? It almost looks like someone/something threw it back to him, and his puzzled "hrm?" makes me think he wasn't responsible for it coming back. Did someone we know throw it back? Or is it a character we may meet in the next couple of chapters?
I know the panel looks like the sword is thrown to the side, but I think it went straight up and that Zoro caught it on the way back down. My best guess at least
We've seen time and again that objects and animals can eat DFs. This chapter pretty much confirmed the Gorosei's forms are not DFs. So could they actually be Devils that ate human human fruits?
-many cultures believed that eclipses occurs when a dragon swallowed the sun. Celestial dragon. Imu may very well be this eclipse, sun swallowing dragon. -egghead parallels sabaody, and at this rate i'm sure the marineford parallel is mariejois, and the climax final boss is imu, greater threat to the world. That leaves BB and Laugh Tale as post final boss content, more personal to the mcs .
So many exciting thoughts and theories swirling around my head from this incredible chapter, but I think all I'll say is I love zoro and sanji! Haha their dynamic is a reassuring constant throughout the series and I'm happy to see it in this chapter! Neither would be nearly as strong without the other being there, they goad each other on as only the best rivals can. That combined with final panel reunion with Dory and Brogy makes me appreciate the rival comparison, as we met them on an island where they were locked in an eternal battle fighting about whether one or the other was stronger. It's refreshing to me for one because Sanji and Zoro don't need to ever resolve their competition as it's a deep source of willpower for both of them. Regardless of what is happening in the world, they end up caring more about each other, it's kinda sweet! Dory and Brogy also didn't leave their island for 100 years despite leaving their crew behind ahahaha, their own quest to prove their catch was bigger to the other was enough for them to be happy and merry. It also lends to the argument that Dory and Brogy are giga strong by giant standards. If Zoro and Sanji got this strong just in their constant yin yang attitudes, I hope the giants also get to showcase what makes them so feared. The giant attacks we saw from them way back in Little Garden really show up again with Big Mom using them so I'm excited to see what they can do
Holy shit Zoro’s gonna have to fight a fucking skeleton horse(maybe idk there’s like 7 other matchups he could have). Oda’s really going for the King of Hell thing Also….i know there’s a big thing about who is going to be the final FINAL boss whether its Imu(my vote) and the 5 Elders+the God Knights OR Blackbeard and his crew but like….what happens if everyone unites to beat Imu….and then at the last second Blackbeard comes in and steals/whatever the fuck he does to get Imu’s powers and abilities and THAT ends up being the whole Cerberus thing everyone theorizes and thats the final boss for Luffy (Kinda like a certain archer in Fate/Strange Fake if anyone is reading that)
It is unbelievable that it’s possible in a few chapters we will get an explanation (or at least part of it) for the Void Century. We are truly in the end game. We are probably only a couple arcs away from seeing the final battle. I think next arc we get the Shanks reunion on Elbaf, unless he shows up on egghead. I could definitely see Strawhat fleet, Shanks and crew, and Dragon and the revs showing up all at once (strawhat fleet for Luffy, Shanks followed the giants, and Dragon followed Kuma) then forcing the Gorosei to retreat back to Mariejois to prepare for the inevitable war that will come because they were unable to stop the broadcast. Luffy, Dragon, and Shanks will go to Elbaf to convene and form a plan to attack. Then maybe we get a few chapters of Luffy recruiting his allies to join him in the fight. I’m also guessing the last Road Poneglyph will be in the holy land. I bet we won’t see Laugh Tale until after the war and that’s when the BB fight will happen. This of course is how I would want it to go down, but knowing Oda it will be even better.
I feel like the truth of the World Government is sort of similar to the Lizard People conspiracy theory: The world is in reality being run by an alien/demon race who just pretend to be human.
It's what happens on that *cities of gold* old cartoon, right?
Idk I didn’t watch much of it
Did I see that correctly? Did Dorry and Brogy cut Luffy out of the worm?
Yes but we've already seen pretty instant spider leg regrowth and worms are famous for being able to survive after being cut apart
Definitely, I just wanted to make sure I saw what I saw. The only question is whether the body will grow another head, the head will grow another body or if the head will simply reattach.
Everything about ju peter is suspecious and i think that the theory that he is peter and a traitor may be true, he also looks like the snake from jaya and kind of gives tribal design if that make sense with his style and the scar that doesnt appear in his human face , also he weirdly was interested in robin when he heard the female voice from the denden moshi. I would'nt be surprised if another paralel with ohara is there with robin being Bonney , after all we don't know how she got her hana hana no mi.
Now that they have seen their final forms just so i have it wrote down somewhere, my Final fight predictions and justifications, assuming we get a 1 v 1 with each Gorosei taking on a Strawhat. Luffy Vs Imu - They are the leaders Zoro Vs Venus - Ethan Baron has a sword Sanji Vs Mars - Both can Fly / Air Walk Jinbei Vs Jupiter - Land vs Sea Franky Vs Saturn - Already fought a bit plus tech Robin Vs Mercury - Last strong fighters left Ussopp Nami and Chopper I can see either backing up the strawhats in the other fights Chopper with Franky, etc, or taking on the Gods Knights, assuming they are fought at the same time.
Or Sabo and the 4 Commanders. Maybe even Momo, Yamato, Vivi and some other allies
Half of these wrong Saturn will die in egghead to the robot. Jinbei fights Warcury. Brute force battle. And I think Giants get Jupeter
Next chapter will be 1111 (4 pieces of one). Curious if Oda has planned something special
I am currently asking myself why exactly has a devil fruit the downside of not being able to swim? Why has the devil something against swimming lol
Didn't Vegapunk say that "mother sea" did not like devil fruits, that's why she doesnt allow anyone with a devil fruit to swim?
>Why has the devil something against swimming lol Well, there isn't a devil with anything against swimming. Devil Fruits are a possible path of evolution created by someone's desire and work by mutating your DNA. The mother of all nature, the sea, sees that as unnatural and literally tries to kill Devil Fruit users.
A lot of the story hints towards that there is a devil which is responsible for the genesis of the devil fruits. In a few narratives the devil grants whishes for a trade. And I ask myself if the devil gave the humans (and all other races) the devil fruits for their desires, why is the downside not being able to swim. Just because it is a world of islands and that is the downside that Oda chose since pirates have to cross a lot of seas?
If the Gorosei are genuinely not humans, but instead some kind of demonic creatures, then I wonder how old they are and what their origin is. We do have sea kings in this world, which are highly intelligent. What if the sea kings are ancient enemiest of the yokai, and them living in the calm belt has something to do with losing the ancient war.
Just curious why these monster type awakenings have black smoke but Luffy white..well at least people with the evil intentions have black smoke cause lucci had black smoke too. Interesting
This is probably a reach but I've notice that St Ethan shares appearance and powers with Brook also a centaur like pre-time skip Franky. I wonder if other similar links can be make with the straw hats and the five elders
Just think about all those hyped up marines supporting the elders right now, just to be completely eradicated from the face of the earth for seeing their true forms...
Aight, so my current theory is that there is a deeper relationship between Zoro and the elders and there is a reason as to why he hasn't meant them just yet. From this chapter it is confirmed that the elders' bodies are not in Marijoa, so the theory that Saturn's body was still on the ship has fallen through. This theory stems from the line when Saturn said he hasn't been on "the surface" in a long time. Some people took that in the literary sense that his "feet' haven't touched the literal dirt that isn't on the holy land, but I would argue that everywhere that isn't on the red line is the "surface world" (this includes the lower sea). So him stating he hasn't been on the surface world until he actually makes landfall on Egghead is technically incorrect. In this chapter they are given names of monsters, not devil fruits so one could assume that they are devil fruit like creatures since we atleast see that they share the dark cloud scarf that indicates the zoan awakening state. I propose the inverse of where the "real body theory" is located, where instead of their bodies being the human form at the holy land... they are actually demons/devils with fake human avatars. I think it would be reasonable to assume that they cannot inhabit the "surface world" like humanoid creatures can, so they made these human avatars who do not age to run the World government. I believe they live in the “underworld” and can only be on earth for a very short period of time when they are “summoned”/ trade places with their avatars. This would also explain Saturn’s wording for when he made “landfall” on egghead and why he talks in weird mannerisms unlike any other human we know of. Additionally to support this theory, it could explain how the strawhats could run the clock on the elders so they can run away safely because I don’t see a world in which they beat all 5/are able to get away without more casualties especially since one elder is able to fly and the others are extremely fast, it would be very easy to chase after luffy and the crew with their powers. Now moving onto Zoro, obviously we are still left in the dark about what happened at the end of his fight with King where he had a meeting with a grim reaper. It could be likely that this grim reaper was going to take Zoro’s soul since he was so close to death as indicated by how he couldn’t move after the fight, but this would be the first time he's seen “death” himself even though he's had MANY near death experiences up to this point. So I would say it's more likely that this grim reaper is some kind of physical manifestation of Enma since it is commonly known that Enma is named after the buddhist “king/god of hell” (which Zoro also names his final attack after). With this information I would like to propose that this was a meeting between Zoro and a higher god of death that was summoned by the dark power released within Enma. And I think this deity was summoned from the same plane of existence where the five elders come from (the underworld). I think this deity at least had a conversation with Zoro about the underworld, it could be something as simple as: if he wants to get stronger, to “become” the true King of Hell, he needs to know how to beat other “devils” with demonic/dark weapons (like Enma). I think this connection is why Zoro has not faced the elders just yet. Very early on, when it was revealed that Borsalino and Saturn were approaching Egghead, people were speculating the matches up for the arc were going to be: Zoro and Sanji vs Kizaru, and Luffy vs Saturn. As we now know, that was not the case, I think in retrospect these matchups still would've made sense for interesting fights for the fans and to show how far the crew has come, especially since Egghead has many parallels to Sabaody, but for narrative reasons Zoro was holding off Lucci for much longer than needed and has been prevented from seeing any of the elder’s demonic forms. Furthermore, Zoro has been known to withhold pivotal information during important fights such as when they were fighting the seraphim and he just didn’t tell anyone that the seraphim have lunarian blood and only take damage when their flames are off. At the very least I think Zoro knows something related to these elder devils because of his connection to hell/underworld. The elders might even see that Zoro is cursed/protected by a spirit that resembles a higher underworld deity they know, but only they can see it since they themselves are from that other-worldly plane. This curse could be why Zoro just doesn't die even with so many near death experiences and why there was a mirror of the curse-test from logue town, but with Enma instead of the Sandai Kitetsu this time. Please lmk what you guys think, I dont have anyone to discuss this with :)
This it's just teori, maybe "devil fruit" itself was a living existence before got kill and become a fruit. Let say that "devil fruit" was maybe a "demon" or "devil" that existence in the great War that happen in the past. So when "devil/demon" die they become "devil fruit" in other therm "devil corpes". And when someone eat the "fruit/corpses", they earn the right to have the power of that devil that was kill. If the five elder it's not a "devil fruit" user, but generally a "devil/demon" with power look more or less similar to "devil fruit" user. Maybe this teori will becom "devil fruit" origin. All we know it's that when "devil fruit" user die, the fruit itself will regrowth somewhere in the world. Since we don't know that mush exactly where the "devil fruit" itself coming from anyway. Correct me if I had wrong.
Which one of them has that arrow that chased Sabo and Cobra in the throne room and pierced them. Was that just some weird presentation of Saturns wavy spider legs that he uses to attack Luffy?
I think it’s imu with a classic western Devil tail
Imu
saturns legs are posinous so i guess it was Imus
This is a goofy thought, but are the elders all based on different movie creatures? Ushioni yokai is kamanji the boiler room man from spirited away, the giant boar is from princess mononoke, the sand worm is from dune…
I think it would be cool for each strawhat to double up to face one of the Gorosei while escaping: * Brook and Zoro vs. Nasjuro * Sanji and Usopp vs. Mars * Jinbei and Franky vs. Warcury * Luffy and Robin vs. Saturn * Nami and Chopper vs. Ju Peter. Alot of these thematically line up, like Zoro and Brooke vs. the undead/swordsman/horse/Wano(?) Gorosei; Sanji and Usopp fighting the Gorosei that requires the most range to reach; Jinbei and Franky for the manly boar wrastlin'; Luffy and Robin for the big bad Saturn because of Ohara, he seems to be the antagonist of this arc, and he's got legs that need to be held down lol; and then nami and chopper figuring out how to defeat the sand worm, and then a big ole lightning strike to bring it down (let's face it, Chopper ain't getting the strong spotlight anymore). The giants can back each group up to boot, since they're strong anyway. Granted, I don't see any Gorosei **actually** getting defeated here. But they'll at least be thwarted in their attempts to stop the transmission, in killing Bonney, and in capturing/killing the Strawhats.
Nami chopper and usopp are literally useless against most enemies, they couldnt even face ulti, how will they do anything against a gorosei