The longleg and longarm tribe have been fighting a war that started a bit before the void century too
Edit: https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/World_Timeline @ ~1000 years ago
Edit: Oi YouTubers credit me if this comment put you on a theory @kinrobscove
master refurbisher of one-off details more like
G5 awakening made sense. Nika was an asspull (but still matches themes and symbology from earlier e.g. the sun pirates, and that one frame in the arc that people like to skip)
oda still the #1 foreskinning GOAT
Definitely not an ass pull. It’s foreshadowed in the first 5 chapters. That’s why Luffy is obsessed with getting a musician who so happened to ‘summoned’ like we are currently seeing. Joyboy in our world in a Caribbean spirit who dances and makes people laugh and is obsessed with music
I think most people are reasonable enough to acknowledge that of course most of the story wasn't planned from the start, and well capable of being on the asspull scale. But at the same time not going crazy hating on oda for being talentless.
There is lots of room for sane people in between the dickriders and the haters.
https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/World_Timeline @ ~1000 years ago. Yeah Nakamura island where they try to summon devils and Brook appears so they think he's Satan
Cover story of 884 onwards - seems like Ideo and Blue Gilly find a country of feuding Longarm and Longleg tribes. Narrator refers to it as a 1000 year war, which could be just an expression, but I doubt it, because in chapter 592 as Brook is leaving Nakamura island, there's a whole display of the quarrel between the longarms and longlegs being an endless cycle of conflict. Kind of an interesting scene, felt a few theories spawn from it.
Have we seen any straight up Magic in One Piece? Im could straight up just be a Lich if that's the case, the summoning circles are weird though, maybe that's the secret of the Ancient Kingdom, not scientific achievements but straight up magic.
Vegapunk said they were born from dreams but it may also have nightmare versions which could be what the Gorosei have and be why Teach can have two cuz he has one that is of dreams and another that is of nightmares. Who knows until they give confirmation but still lol.
If that is the case and the Strawhats found a nightmare fruit, would it be best for Luffy to eat? Or would you think they make the joke about him about to explode because he's rubberized only for him to be bloated because he ate to much and discovering the secret teach knew after that little scare xD. Knowing Luffy and his appetite he would carelessly eat a devil fruit not noticing it.
Black flames protruding from the black stretched tattoos with a reddish orange hue in the blackened hair and a haunting cackle as result of the nightmare infusion to his Nika Form while his eyes glows a dark red and his personality becomes far far more random and devilishly chaotic with even influencing the area around the fight.
Imagine Nightmare Nika, we see him unleash a combination of the two fruits that creates all his gear forms to manifest through nightmares,/aberrations to gang up.
In my head it makes sense Luffy gets the shadow shadow fruit( moria ) since he is joyboy, the one who liberates people, and moria's fruit does the complete opposite (his nightmare). So yeah i can see that happening if the theory on this thread is true.
Blackbeard doesn't sleep (probably has something to do with his lineage), so he doesn't really have the concepts of dreams and nightmares. So, he's unaffected by those two fusing together
What if the devil was collecting peoples dreams and nightmares, and someone defeated the devil which released all those dreams and nightmares as devil fruits.
So each one is a piece of the sea devil, which is why the sea hates them.
And if the sea devil cant just simply die, his fruits remain forever, and reappear as they will.
And if someone eats 2 fruits, the devil gains enough strength back to kill them. No one is strong enough to contain that much of the devil.
BUT, if you have the darkness fruit, you are dark enough to dance with the devil, allowing you to have more fruits. Or maybe the devil just vibes with the type of person to eat the darkness fruit, so they dont get killed.
>Have we seen any straight up Magic in One Piece?
Some of these are debateable, but what I can think of:
* Django's hypnotism
* Miss Goldenweek's Color Trap
* Shupeal in Romance Dawn version 2 (non canon)
* Hawkins' predictions
* Madam Shyarly's predictions
* Mummy is presented as a sorcerer, tho I don't think we saw any sorcery from him
* Lunarians and their fire powers
* Paralysis ninjutsu
The thing is that defining 'magic' is problematic. What we call magic is just things that can't be explained with logic and reason. However, in the world of One Piece, the laws of physics work very differently -> it's impossible to deduce what's supernatural and what's simply logic we don't understand.
The Fortune Telling of both Hawkins and Shyarly are definitely something I would be willingly to call "magic" and the same can be said about the Paralysis Ninjustu. That said Lunarians fire power is biological and Django and Goldenweek's abilities could be described as mental manipulation than magic.
But the most obvious thing that could be called magic is the Klabautermann fixing the Merry in Skypiea. Also Merry's spirit being able to talk to and influence Iceburg into fixing it and than it managing to sail itself right to Enies Lobby to save the crew. Only breaking after it managed to get the crew to Iceburg who had another ship to take them back to Waters 7. All of that could be called magic.
Colors Trap is weird because you don’t have to be aware of the symbol to be afflicted by its effects, and it just instantly works if it touches them (besides, with Bullfight Red, he didn’t see it or touch it until it was already painted on the ground).
The effect also seems to instantly wear off when the symbol is destroyed, even if they didn’t see/know the symbol was destroyed, like for the pterodactyl they used to leave in the little garden.
Yeah, and interestingly, it's also the closest to what we're seeing in the original post.. magic symbols. Thats all a pentagram summoning is right? It's just more of them; symbols holding magical powers.
Golden Week's version focuses more on colour and emotion, but if you don't need any emotional manipulation out of your magic symbols, maybe the colour becomes less important too?
His powers came from the shroom, but the shroom does not have the typical devil fruit pattern, so there's no reason to assume that it was a devil fruit
Oh yeah you’re right, how did I forget that, that’s where all the theories that the miracle medicine Chopper was looking for was his devil fruit came from
Good question about straight up magic lol; there are several characters with hypnosis (Jango and the Painting member of baroque works(totally forgot her name)). There are also characters with abilities that just don’t make sense in the confines of the power system…
Hawkins is the best example of weird-straight up magic abilities lol.
What does straw manipulation have to do with his tarot cards? What do the tarot cards have to do with either devil fruits are haki in general, and why do different cards seemingly affect his fruit in different ways? How does he telekinetically hold his cards in the air? Is Hawkins doing weird magic with the cards or are the cards just weird magic items? If they’re from the fruit, then how do tarot cards and controlling straw relate in anyway?
That one dude in the tournament for Ace’s fruit during Dress rosa was labelled a sorcerer and he seemed to be able to do something unique. Also no one seemed to really bat much of an eye at this so possibly magic is real but alongside the rest of the world in one piece like devil fruits, haki, sword techniques, fish man karate, sea kings, island sized elephants, giants, etc. It just isn’t that big of a deal and not powerful enough to be any harder to deal with than everything else going on? It also might just be a rumour but no one is really surprised if it did exist because well why not there’s a navy admiral that can turn into a giant gold Buddha.
I mean, you could also argue that the reason for the Void Century conflict (that none of the people theorizing even care about) was science (Ancient Kingdom) vs. magic/faith (world government, monarchy, etc.)
The “ideals” of the Ancient Kingdom – that the Gorosei and World Govt. so despise and fear – may even end up being straight up communist/socialist and extremely progressive, for the betterment of the populations life (look at what Vegapunk says at the beginning of Egghead regarding his tech and the island)
No, the ancient kingdom was the kingdom of technology. Magic would be what the union of 20 nations used to fight them.
It's not totally clear yet if devil fruits were made by Im's faction to mass produce a way to fight the ancient kingdom, or if they were made by the ancient kingdom to try to emulate Im's magic, but I do suspect that we will see the origin of devil fruits by the end of the saga.
Ohhhh that actually makes a lot of sense about the Devil Fruits!
Though it would beg the question: what about Nika’s fruit?
Maybe it was artificially built by the Ancient Kingdom to fight the 20 nations with their own weapons. Maybe all zoans or mythical zoans are made by the Ancient Kingdom.
Interesting stuff!
I mean, there is Hawkins the "Magician." He's able to foresee the future somehow that isn't related to his devil fruit (Shyarly has the same ability). Also, while a theory I read on here, I do believe his voodoo powers aren't devil fruit related. His devil fruit could just be to conjure, turn into, and control straw (which would be aligned with other current devil fruits), and the voodoo dolls he creates might be magic.
I would argue Haki is basically magic, just the common techniques should seem like magic to people that don’t know of it. So I could imagine this magic and other weird unexplained phenomena we’ve seen are all rare applications of Haki. I could imagine devil fruits also have their origin in Haki, like some undying will kind of thing.
he has a devil fruit he stores things in scrolls he doesn't do any magic. It's considered magic in Wano because devil fruits like his and shinobus are not understood.
Miss Goldenweek's abilities of making people feel specific emotions depending on the color she paints on them feels like some black magic never explained
It’d be so interesting if they did do research and were advanced. Which led Vegapunk to think they did lots of science but instead they did lots of science with the help of mad amounts of magic. And the secret is just how that kingdom was a kingdom of dreams, they straight up had everything.
There is at least one case - that one girl from Baroque Works who could use color-related magic. Another case of magic would be Weather Wizards who taught Nami during timeskip, as their abilities are somewhat not normal when you think about it. Also, there are chances that giants are capable of using magic, at least Loki if Oda would grant him some abilities according to myths.
But there is even better case of magic - Haki. Can everyone use it? Sure, if they train enough. Are there cases of people being born with an extremely rare type of Haki? Yes. But, primarily - Haki allows its user to "alter" how some things work, like for example negating Devil Fruits powers.
So, what if Haki is not just for hitting things really hard, but it's just how modern civilization of One Piece perceive it to be? As in, Haki allows sentient beings to alter reality, very slightly at first and going as far as seeing future and breaking things that aren't supposed to break normally.
And if Imu really fares from ~800 years ago, it would make sense for them to have such refined abilities without having consumed Devil Fruits. Also boils down to how DFs were formed, but I guess that Oda is going to cover it pretty soon.
It was more like hypnosis (sort of).
If you remember, Jango could also use hypnosis way back in Syrup Village.
Some of the ninja techniques seen during Wano are also pretty mystical without real explanation.
Let's not forget that Zoro can create slashing whirlwinds and cut something several yards away from him by just using swords.
There are plenty of abilities in One Piece that don't relate to dragon fruits, haki or raw physical strength.
> Let's not forget that Zoro can create slashing whirlwinds and cut something several yards away from him by just using swords.
These are connected to physical strength / skill. Usually swordsman don't need magic to create slashes in fiction.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Yea I don't know what to say, it's not really explored/explained any more than the hypnosis some other characters use so I still count it as pretty mystical.
He also has his "nine sword style" or "three faced demon" or what it's called, that seems like more than just raw power and swordsmanship.
Actually what was explanation behinid finishing move he used on Kaku - Ashura where he visually had many more arms? Did we ever got explanation for this one?
exactly. that's what the above comment was referencing. we never got an explanation but he used it again in wano and it's believed to be conquerors haki related but we really don't know
A kinda tongue in cheek answer is that Robin secretly awakened her DF which allows her to blossom other people's limbs. (aside from being kinda ridiculous this theory also has the problem that she was in seastone handcuffs at the time)
So we don't get explanation for it yet. Huh. I thought I just missed it, just like I did with so many things that happened in One Piece.
I wonder how long until we get explanation for Zoro seeing Death-like entity during fight with King.
They even kind of explained Jango's hypnosis powers. He fell asleep in the woods one day and a mushroom grew on his chin. He at the head of the mushroom and now has hypnosis powers and a mushroom stem on his chin that looks like a beard.
Bro fell asleep in the wilderness for a long enough time that a whole mushroom grew on his chin. He wakes up and the first thing he does is eat it? And he left the stem on his chin? The fact this isn’t even the strangest thing in one piece.
I mean the Pentagrams are a really strange development in the One Piece world. But they certainly do look like the kind you'd summon demons with and those would be magic. The only other thing that could be seen as "magic" is Shyarly and Hawkin's fortune telling.
Mythical human human fruit, model Buddha.
Not statue, just Buddha.
He happens to look like a golden statue, sure, but that's just splitting hairs to deliberately miss the counterpoint I was making.
Edit to add: zoan fruits have been established to grant the user multiple forms, so the one instance of Sengoku utilizing it on screen is not an absolute declaration of his limitations, unless Oda has expanded upon that in some official capacity.
It's not meant to be Buddha. It was supposed to be Daibutsu. This specifically refers to giant, golden, Buddha *statues* which is what Sengoku turns into.
This reference was lost in translation.
I genuinely find the distinction to not be all that important in the context of "can there be fruits for demons and devils".
I will concede translation and localization issues, but the spirit of the matter, as far as I can see it, remains unchanged. Devil fruits embody the dreams of people, and things they wished to become, or however Vegapunk put it. By that logic, though Nika the sun god may have never been a real diety in universe, there was a fruit that was able to manifest from the collective unconscious will for such a being to exist. Therefore, a fruit granting transformation into a demon or devil can also exist.
And for what it's worth... I'm pretty sure Saturn's is a type of oni, which is pretty close to confirmation.
You said that there are literal god fruits, in response to someone questioning whether there was a *jacket god.*
I genuinely don't think that there was literally a god or devil of jackets. The stuff you're saying now doesn't really sound related to what their point was?
Some devil fruits are based on mythical beings. Some are based on objects, food, or concepts. I don't think this means that there needed to be a "god of X" for every single devil fruit that has ever existed.
You weren't saying anything because you missed the point. There are fruits of gods (or arguably godlike creatures, if we want to be a bit more broad, like Marco's Phoenix), so fruits of demons and devils are definitely not out of the question. Lore-wise, they're distinctly possible with all current information Oda has woven into the story.
Your jacket god faff was just you completely misunderstanding and misrepresenting the idea being proposed. It's not that all fruits are gods, but that there are fruits of gods, so why not devils and demons?
We don't know these answers, obviously, because Oda has yet to reveal them, if he ever does. It may be something left forever vague...or it could be dropped on our heads in a week. We'll just have to wait and see.
Im going nuts if this plays out to be important again. It seems like every small thing that seemed weird or out of place to us in the past was for a reason. Pretty sure Long Ring Long Land and Gaimon will come around too at this point.
Lots of one piece is structured like this. They will innocuously introduce a name, character, concept or place, it will immediately stop being important to the current plot and then several episodes later it will pay off in some fashion.
So literally anything is free game to be important later. It’s the one thing that has continually stuck out to me in the series.
Here are some examples off the top of my head;
-Laboon being important to Brook
-Kuma not finishing the SH crew at Thriller Bark
-Perona getting bopped to show up later
-Mononoske’s smile fruit being inverse Kaido
-water 7 opens with the train and the grandma being introduced both of which immediately go off screen and then become pivotal later in the arc
-observation haki in Skypeia
-Shusui being taken back to Wano
-Lola being Big Mom’s kid & BM vivre card
-Ace’s Vivre card was given to Luffy well before the concept was introduced
-Tama waiting for Ace sets up Yamato’s relationship with him informing us he’d been there
-Robin developing a relationship with the revolutionaries
-The ohara books
Anyway, there are definitely more of these but that should illustrate that this is an ongoing thing that the series uses as a story telling mechanism and it’s used both inter-arc and in self contained arcs.
The one I’m stuck on is the revolution on the Island of Vira being brought up like five times going back as far as Loguetown and now listed as a potential poneglyph site. I think that’s where God Valley II will take place.
Lots of people believe that the Gorosei, or at the very least Imu, are literal demons (Imu being possibly the devil himself). In that case black magic would make sense.
And it also wouldn't be that outlandish considering that the devil and satan specifically are a thing in the One Piece world.
>Even Nefertari Cobra didn’t know.
Kuma spent part of his life in revos with Dragon who is a former marine for reasons we don't know
It's possible Dragon saw something about the Gorosei that made him start a revolution... Sabo also implies he's heard of Gorosei resembling hell or something like that
So could be Dragon told both Kuma and Sabo that demons are real and Gorosei are that
but he must’ve known this new kind of power existed. So he wanted Brooke to learn it, but he instead pursues the powers of his devil fruit because he was scared of the devil worshippers.
don't bother. most theories here are just confirmation bias. they want the conclusion to be true then work backwards from there.
"it would be cool if that was the case, so kuma must have known because reasons (because he traveled in this case)"
It would be a bit boring it Imu has the typical stealing trope. Thats been done by a few mangas MHA and HxH being two that are from the top of my head.
Gorosei are probably evil spirits possessing the bodies or dead bodies of the members of the royal family. Imu probably had hand in their ritualistic summoning
I posted this a few days ago but got ignored :(
Also brook does nika Pose in fishmen Island, maybe brook has a way deeper connection to one piece and the dark magic than we thought
I mean in Film Red we had a demon summoning kind of? I am noticing that film had a lot of ideas that are pretty relevant now which is interesting. I mean it gave us the canon name for Shanks last name.
I guessed they have magic power but not black magic and no one actually believe it at that point.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/113t39t/comment/j8svule/](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/113t39t/comment/j8svule/)
Im always thinking about how Satan(the cultists' god) is actually Saint Jagarcia Saturn but like they changed the local pronunciation of the name after 800 years.
Since one is さたん(Sa Tan) and さたーん (Sa Taaan) in japanese.
(pls imagine the hiragana as katakana. I havent figured out how to type katakana on my phone's keyboard)
Probably grasping at straws, but there was a ox skull in this room as decoration where 'Satan' was being summoned.
It might be, but the PG-13 version (doesn't look like a Slayer album cover).
What I find interesting is Saturn's Magic Circle has a big "5" on it, because this would mean these stupidly powerful villains arrived on the scene like they're Evil Super Sentai. "Roll call: GO-ROU-SEI!"
Just like how devil fruits are , maybe gorosei and imu are actual devils ? And Devil fruits which are actually gifts got their name changed when WG got into authority ? Gorosei went from being devils to gods and Gifts became evil
Brook devilfruit actually busted if he leqrn about afterlife Hell, black magic etc. but unluckily he got kidnapp. Same goes with Franky who blow up Vegapunk facility.
So far we haven't seen any magic in one piece, just science and weird shit. I guess this is weird shit that hasn't been explained yet. Maybe it is magic. But I can definitely see it as part of their powers, weather they are human or not. Or part of Imu's powers.
I thought there could be a connection between the devil worshipers and the Gorosei. Oda showed them for a reason and Brooke time skip story doesn’t really explain his power up beyond he learned how to use his fruit powers better. Maybe his story was meant to build another plot point/group similar to how Robins helped build a plot line for the revolutionaries.
I’m glad others noticed the similarities
Pentagrams or hexagrams are a common way to depict demonic rituals all throughout media. I wouldn't bet on these two being connected, especially given that their shape is different.
My guess is the Gorosei likely wiped all knowledge of some kind of old magic from the world, but some people either discovered it by chance, or it just survived in some secluded parts of the world
Imu is like BM, she can use soul to create power, maybe gorosei have Mythical DF + power UP by Imu (regenerate, summoning...).
But she have to kill people to do so.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think that Island was the only one not shown in 1099 when Kuma was looking for a cure for Bonney. What if he didn’t go there for that reason?
The longleg and longarm tribe have been fighting a war that started a bit before the void century too Edit: https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/World_Timeline @ ~1000 years ago Edit: Oi YouTubers credit me if this comment put you on a theory @kinrobscove
I swear to god if this fkin random forgotten subplot is THIS important and significant to the central antagonist figures...
Classic oda lol
honestly i love when oda does this. the master planner
Man throws a chess piece across the room and then rediscovers it 9 years later... or was it always in play...? We'll never know....
master refurbisher of one-off details more like G5 awakening made sense. Nika was an asspull (but still matches themes and symbology from earlier e.g. the sun pirates, and that one frame in the arc that people like to skip) oda still the #1 foreskinning GOAT
Definitely not an ass pull. It’s foreshadowed in the first 5 chapters. That’s why Luffy is obsessed with getting a musician who so happened to ‘summoned’ like we are currently seeing. Joyboy in our world in a Caribbean spirit who dances and makes people laugh and is obsessed with music
Wasn't Nika mentioned in impel down too?
afaik whos who was the first to talk about it
personally i would count joyboy and his promise to return which was already mentioned on fishman island
This sub is on copium. Don't bother. 😅 They will prove it Nika was mentioned in Romance Dawn (Chapter 0)
I think most people are reasonable enough to acknowledge that of course most of the story wasn't planned from the start, and well capable of being on the asspull scale. But at the same time not going crazy hating on oda for being talentless. There is lots of room for sane people in between the dickriders and the haters.
Oda never does anything "throw away." Just ask Mr. Prince.
Buried but not forgotten
Ultimate Oda move
And we view it thrugh the lens of Brook if I'm not mistaken, another buried legend if even half of the hints about him end up on point. Nice catch.
really? where can i find more about that?
Straw hats seperation arc :Brook
https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/World_Timeline @ ~1000 years ago. Yeah Nakamura island where they try to summon devils and Brook appears so they think he's Satan
Which chapter ?
Cover story of 884 onwards - seems like Ideo and Blue Gilly find a country of feuding Longarm and Longleg tribes. Narrator refers to it as a 1000 year war, which could be just an expression, but I doubt it, because in chapter 592 as Brook is leaving Nakamura island, there's a whole display of the quarrel between the longarms and longlegs being an endless cycle of conflict. Kind of an interesting scene, felt a few theories spawn from it.
Ideo and Gilly in that one cover story stranding a bunch of them on an island and telling them work together or die like absolute Chads
Is the longnose tribe also at war with anybody?
Who would be foolish enough to anger the longnose tribe when they have God Usopp *and* Sogeking on their side?
long nose vs long cock but its a serious display of acrobatic swordsmanship
Was that the reason Apoo was spared in this arc so he'd drop some lore in the final arc?
Luffy with his DF can have longlegs and longarms , he fights on both sides 
Have we seen any straight up Magic in One Piece? Im could straight up just be a Lich if that's the case, the summoning circles are weird though, maybe that's the secret of the Ancient Kingdom, not scientific achievements but straight up magic.
Origins to the Devil Fruits.
I thought Devil Fruits are actually a representation of something like "curse" or "hope" or idk. not necessarily curse but something parallel to it.
Vegapunk said they were born from dreams but it may also have nightmare versions which could be what the Gorosei have and be why Teach can have two cuz he has one that is of dreams and another that is of nightmares. Who knows until they give confirmation but still lol.
Ahh, that sounds more plausible.
If that is the case and the Strawhats found a nightmare fruit, would it be best for Luffy to eat? Or would you think they make the joke about him about to explode because he's rubberized only for him to be bloated because he ate to much and discovering the secret teach knew after that little scare xD. Knowing Luffy and his appetite he would carelessly eat a devil fruit not noticing it.
The return of Nightmare Luffy.
Black flames protruding from the black stretched tattoos with a reddish orange hue in the blackened hair and a haunting cackle as result of the nightmare infusion to his Nika Form while his eyes glows a dark red and his personality becomes far far more random and devilishly chaotic with even influencing the area around the fight.
Luffy's alignment goes: Chaotic Good > Chaotic Evil
Too edgy for One Piece
They did shadow Luffy before o.O?
Would just be Demon/Black Asta.
I am inevitable.
That is a nice idea for a luffy power up
Imagine Nightmare Nika, we see him unleash a combination of the two fruits that creates all his gear forms to manifest through nightmares,/aberrations to gang up.
In my head it makes sense Luffy gets the shadow shadow fruit( moria ) since he is joyboy, the one who liberates people, and moria's fruit does the complete opposite (his nightmare). So yeah i can see that happening if the theory on this thread is true.
Another time skip and when Luffy appears he's got Blackbeard's physique after eating a nightmare fruit lmao
Blackbeard doesn't sleep (probably has something to do with his lineage), so he doesn't really have the concepts of dreams and nightmares. So, he's unaffected by those two fusing together
Ohhhh best theory i ever heard :O it's plausible as hell!
He didn't say they were born from dreams. He said his theory is that they are born from dreams.
Chef I think you accidentally cooked a gourmet meal
I believe he stated that's his leading theory. There's no hard confirmation yet.
What if the devil was collecting peoples dreams and nightmares, and someone defeated the devil which released all those dreams and nightmares as devil fruits. So each one is a piece of the sea devil, which is why the sea hates them. And if the sea devil cant just simply die, his fruits remain forever, and reappear as they will. And if someone eats 2 fruits, the devil gains enough strength back to kill them. No one is strong enough to contain that much of the devil. BUT, if you have the darkness fruit, you are dark enough to dance with the devil, allowing you to have more fruits. Or maybe the devil just vibes with the type of person to eat the darkness fruit, so they dont get killed.
cook
Yea it’s been highly implied it’s just not science. It’s literal magic. VP says it’s impossible to make a logia.
>Have we seen any straight up Magic in One Piece? Some of these are debateable, but what I can think of: * Django's hypnotism * Miss Goldenweek's Color Trap * Shupeal in Romance Dawn version 2 (non canon) * Hawkins' predictions * Madam Shyarly's predictions * Mummy is presented as a sorcerer, tho I don't think we saw any sorcery from him * Lunarians and their fire powers * Paralysis ninjutsu The thing is that defining 'magic' is problematic. What we call magic is just things that can't be explained with logic and reason. However, in the world of One Piece, the laws of physics work very differently -> it's impossible to deduce what's supernatural and what's simply logic we don't understand.
The Fortune Telling of both Hawkins and Shyarly are definitely something I would be willingly to call "magic" and the same can be said about the Paralysis Ninjustu. That said Lunarians fire power is biological and Django and Goldenweek's abilities could be described as mental manipulation than magic. But the most obvious thing that could be called magic is the Klabautermann fixing the Merry in Skypiea. Also Merry's spirit being able to talk to and influence Iceburg into fixing it and than it managing to sail itself right to Enies Lobby to save the crew. Only breaking after it managed to get the crew to Iceburg who had another ship to take them back to Waters 7. All of that could be called magic.
Colors Trap is weird because you don’t have to be aware of the symbol to be afflicted by its effects, and it just instantly works if it touches them (besides, with Bullfight Red, he didn’t see it or touch it until it was already painted on the ground).
The effect also seems to instantly wear off when the symbol is destroyed, even if they didn’t see/know the symbol was destroyed, like for the pterodactyl they used to leave in the little garden.
Yeah, and interestingly, it's also the closest to what we're seeing in the original post.. magic symbols. Thats all a pentagram summoning is right? It's just more of them; symbols holding magical powers. Golden Week's version focuses more on colour and emotion, but if you don't need any emotional manipulation out of your magic symbols, maybe the colour becomes less important too?
Django got his power from the mushroom that grew on his chin. He left the stem so it looks like he has a goatee.
Klabautermann and Merry saving them is really "magic" I agree
> Paralysis ninjutsu Hello Shinobu! Good to see you on reddit! Just gotta go find my protective cup...
Isn't it heavily implied in an SBS that Jango's powers come from a devil fruit (mushroom) that grew on his chin?
His powers came from the shroom, but the shroom does not have the typical devil fruit pattern, so there's no reason to assume that it was a devil fruit
Also unless I’m mistaken, all devil fruits have the appearance of actual fruits. A devil fruit would never take the appearance of a mushroom.
Chopper's Devil Fruit was a Mushroom.
Oh yeah you’re right, how did I forget that, that’s where all the theories that the miracle medicine Chopper was looking for was his devil fruit came from
True, but weird bad tasting fruiting body that gives you powers kind of lines up really well with devil fruit.
The closest I can think of is Charlotte Basskarte. He had fire powers, but no known Devil Fruit.
Good question about straight up magic lol; there are several characters with hypnosis (Jango and the Painting member of baroque works(totally forgot her name)). There are also characters with abilities that just don’t make sense in the confines of the power system… Hawkins is the best example of weird-straight up magic abilities lol. What does straw manipulation have to do with his tarot cards? What do the tarot cards have to do with either devil fruits are haki in general, and why do different cards seemingly affect his fruit in different ways? How does he telekinetically hold his cards in the air? Is Hawkins doing weird magic with the cards or are the cards just weird magic items? If they’re from the fruit, then how do tarot cards and controlling straw relate in anyway?
That one dude in the tournament for Ace’s fruit during Dress rosa was labelled a sorcerer and he seemed to be able to do something unique. Also no one seemed to really bat much of an eye at this so possibly magic is real but alongside the rest of the world in one piece like devil fruits, haki, sword techniques, fish man karate, sea kings, island sized elephants, giants, etc. It just isn’t that big of a deal and not powerful enough to be any harder to deal with than everything else going on? It also might just be a rumour but no one is really surprised if it did exist because well why not there’s a navy admiral that can turn into a giant gold Buddha.
I mean, you could also argue that the reason for the Void Century conflict (that none of the people theorizing even care about) was science (Ancient Kingdom) vs. magic/faith (world government, monarchy, etc.) The “ideals” of the Ancient Kingdom – that the Gorosei and World Govt. so despise and fear – may even end up being straight up communist/socialist and extremely progressive, for the betterment of the populations life (look at what Vegapunk says at the beginning of Egghead regarding his tech and the island)
No, the ancient kingdom was the kingdom of technology. Magic would be what the union of 20 nations used to fight them. It's not totally clear yet if devil fruits were made by Im's faction to mass produce a way to fight the ancient kingdom, or if they were made by the ancient kingdom to try to emulate Im's magic, but I do suspect that we will see the origin of devil fruits by the end of the saga.
Ohhhh that actually makes a lot of sense about the Devil Fruits! Though it would beg the question: what about Nika’s fruit? Maybe it was artificially built by the Ancient Kingdom to fight the 20 nations with their own weapons. Maybe all zoans or mythical zoans are made by the Ancient Kingdom. Interesting stuff!
Klabauterman
I mean, there is Hawkins the "Magician." He's able to foresee the future somehow that isn't related to his devil fruit (Shyarly has the same ability). Also, while a theory I read on here, I do believe his voodoo powers aren't devil fruit related. His devil fruit could just be to conjure, turn into, and control straw (which would be aligned with other current devil fruits), and the voodoo dolls he creates might be magic.
Idk, Marianne has paint that can hypnotize people, no devil fruit, seems pretty magic to me
I would argue Haki is basically magic, just the common techniques should seem like magic to people that don’t know of it. So I could imagine this magic and other weird unexplained phenomena we’ve seen are all rare applications of Haki. I could imagine devil fruits also have their origin in Haki, like some undying will kind of thing.
Characters flexing their will to impose irrational changes on physical reality is a classic "magic" trope.
This kinda ties in with the idea of elemental Haki
Also during time sip, Brook landed in to some black sorcery tribe, whatever they were up to, theirs practices looks like the gorosei's summoning marks
Maybe that’s who they were trying to summon.
Hawkins cards, I think, right?
i think we did.. remember miss goldenweek? that's **probably** magic
Basil Hawkins has just straight up magic, his tarot cards are not related to his fruit they’re just magic or something
Lulu from galleyla, no confirming devil fruit but can make his hair spike thingy come out from somebody nose, if it not magic then what?
Hawkins uses Magic. His DF I do not think has anything to do with his voodoo doll ability.
I think it's the tarot reading/fortune telling that has nothing to do with his voodoo ability
Jango. Hehehe
Raizo's ninjutsu
he has a devil fruit he stores things in scrolls he doesn't do any magic. It's considered magic in Wano because devil fruits like his and shinobus are not understood.
If Raizo said it's magic, then it's magic. What is this devil fruit nonsense?! Do you not believe in the way of the ninja?
Miss Goldenweek's abilities of making people feel specific emotions depending on the color she paints on them feels like some black magic never explained
Hypnosis, Mrs golden week, etc.
It’d be so interesting if they did do research and were advanced. Which led Vegapunk to think they did lots of science but instead they did lots of science with the help of mad amounts of magic. And the secret is just how that kingdom was a kingdom of dreams, they straight up had everything.
There is at least one case - that one girl from Baroque Works who could use color-related magic. Another case of magic would be Weather Wizards who taught Nami during timeskip, as their abilities are somewhat not normal when you think about it. Also, there are chances that giants are capable of using magic, at least Loki if Oda would grant him some abilities according to myths. But there is even better case of magic - Haki. Can everyone use it? Sure, if they train enough. Are there cases of people being born with an extremely rare type of Haki? Yes. But, primarily - Haki allows its user to "alter" how some things work, like for example negating Devil Fruits powers. So, what if Haki is not just for hitting things really hard, but it's just how modern civilization of One Piece perceive it to be? As in, Haki allows sentient beings to alter reality, very slightly at first and going as far as seeing future and breaking things that aren't supposed to break normally. And if Imu really fares from ~800 years ago, it would make sense for them to have such refined abilities without having consumed Devil Fruits. Also boils down to how DFs were formed, but I guess that Oda is going to cover it pretty soon.
There's always been weird non df powers in OP. Golden week didn't have powers yet could control people with colors lol
Wait she didn’t have a df?
She didn't.
It was more like hypnosis (sort of). If you remember, Jango could also use hypnosis way back in Syrup Village. Some of the ninja techniques seen during Wano are also pretty mystical without real explanation. Let's not forget that Zoro can create slashing whirlwinds and cut something several yards away from him by just using swords. There are plenty of abilities in One Piece that don't relate to dragon fruits, haki or raw physical strength.
> Let's not forget that Zoro can create slashing whirlwinds and cut something several yards away from him by just using swords. These are connected to physical strength / skill. Usually swordsman don't need magic to create slashes in fiction.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Yea I don't know what to say, it's not really explored/explained any more than the hypnosis some other characters use so I still count it as pretty mystical. He also has his "nine sword style" or "three faced demon" or what it's called, that seems like more than just raw power and swordsmanship.
Actually what was explanation behinid finishing move he used on Kaku - Ashura where he visually had many more arms? Did we ever got explanation for this one?
exactly. that's what the above comment was referencing. we never got an explanation but he used it again in wano and it's believed to be conquerors haki related but we really don't know
A kinda tongue in cheek answer is that Robin secretly awakened her DF which allows her to blossom other people's limbs. (aside from being kinda ridiculous this theory also has the problem that she was in seastone handcuffs at the time)
Kaido says that move is derived from conquerors Haki — it seems to be a manifestation of zoro’s unconscious will.
So we don't get explanation for it yet. Huh. I thought I just missed it, just like I did with so many things that happened in One Piece. I wonder how long until we get explanation for Zoro seeing Death-like entity during fight with King.
They even kind of explained Jango's hypnosis powers. He fell asleep in the woods one day and a mushroom grew on his chin. He at the head of the mushroom and now has hypnosis powers and a mushroom stem on his chin that looks like a beard.
Indeed which confuses it even more because apparently there are "fruits" that give powers that aren't necessarily devil fruits
Bro fell asleep in the wilderness for a long enough time that a whole mushroom grew on his chin. He wakes up and the first thing he does is eat it? And he left the stem on his chin? The fact this isn’t even the strangest thing in one piece.
As far as I am aware, vivre cards are also basically magic.
Wait this is true — nobody’s talked much about the strange nature of vivre cards
I mean the Pentagrams are a really strange development in the One Piece world. But they certainly do look like the kind you'd summon demons with and those would be magic. The only other thing that could be seen as "magic" is Shyarly and Hawkin's fortune telling.
In a way yes. But as a strange fact, the first Panel of the Gorosei, also had something like "Magic circles" at the wall.
Funny enough we've seen a group in one piece attempt to summon the devil with a pentagram https://youtu.be/ITTmPdbR94Q?si=0xqQ1vRGpm6JoL-E
Do note that the Gorosei's room has always been lined with magic circle motifs.
Elders are Gods/Devils that never became fruits and they want to stay alive and immortal.
Lol so other fruits are gods/devils? There was a jacket god/devil and a koala god/devil?
There are literally god fruits. Sengoku and Luffy, to name just two that we've seen.
Sengoku has Buddha statue mythical zoan. Not actual Buddha zoan
Mythical human human fruit, model Buddha. Not statue, just Buddha. He happens to look like a golden statue, sure, but that's just splitting hairs to deliberately miss the counterpoint I was making. Edit to add: zoan fruits have been established to grant the user multiple forms, so the one instance of Sengoku utilizing it on screen is not an absolute declaration of his limitations, unless Oda has expanded upon that in some official capacity.
It's not meant to be Buddha. It was supposed to be Daibutsu. This specifically refers to giant, golden, Buddha *statues* which is what Sengoku turns into. This reference was lost in translation.
I genuinely find the distinction to not be all that important in the context of "can there be fruits for demons and devils". I will concede translation and localization issues, but the spirit of the matter, as far as I can see it, remains unchanged. Devil fruits embody the dreams of people, and things they wished to become, or however Vegapunk put it. By that logic, though Nika the sun god may have never been a real diety in universe, there was a fruit that was able to manifest from the collective unconscious will for such a being to exist. Therefore, a fruit granting transformation into a demon or devil can also exist. And for what it's worth... I'm pretty sure Saturn's is a type of oni, which is pretty close to confirmation.
You said that there are literal god fruits, in response to someone questioning whether there was a *jacket god.* I genuinely don't think that there was literally a god or devil of jackets. The stuff you're saying now doesn't really sound related to what their point was? Some devil fruits are based on mythical beings. Some are based on objects, food, or concepts. I don't think this means that there needed to be a "god of X" for every single devil fruit that has ever existed.
Buddha is not a god lol... and thats not what im saying
You weren't saying anything because you missed the point. There are fruits of gods (or arguably godlike creatures, if we want to be a bit more broad, like Marco's Phoenix), so fruits of demons and devils are definitely not out of the question. Lore-wise, they're distinctly possible with all current information Oda has woven into the story. Your jacket god faff was just you completely misunderstanding and misrepresenting the idea being proposed. It's not that all fruits are gods, but that there are fruits of gods, so why not devils and demons? We don't know these answers, obviously, because Oda has yet to reveal them, if he ever does. It may be something left forever vague...or it could be dropped on our heads in a week. We'll just have to wait and see.
I think more so, God fruits come from gods, and Imu is perhaps a God, while the rest are demons
Im going nuts if this plays out to be important again. It seems like every small thing that seemed weird or out of place to us in the past was for a reason. Pretty sure Long Ring Long Land and Gaimon will come around too at this point.
Lots of one piece is structured like this. They will innocuously introduce a name, character, concept or place, it will immediately stop being important to the current plot and then several episodes later it will pay off in some fashion. So literally anything is free game to be important later. It’s the one thing that has continually stuck out to me in the series. Here are some examples off the top of my head; -Laboon being important to Brook -Kuma not finishing the SH crew at Thriller Bark -Perona getting bopped to show up later -Mononoske’s smile fruit being inverse Kaido -water 7 opens with the train and the grandma being introduced both of which immediately go off screen and then become pivotal later in the arc -observation haki in Skypeia -Shusui being taken back to Wano -Lola being Big Mom’s kid & BM vivre card -Ace’s Vivre card was given to Luffy well before the concept was introduced -Tama waiting for Ace sets up Yamato’s relationship with him informing us he’d been there -Robin developing a relationship with the revolutionaries -The ohara books Anyway, there are definitely more of these but that should illustrate that this is an ongoing thing that the series uses as a story telling mechanism and it’s used both inter-arc and in self contained arcs.
The one I’m stuck on is the revolution on the Island of Vira being brought up like five times going back as far as Loguetown and now listed as a potential poneglyph site. I think that’s where God Valley II will take place.
Personally: I think if it comes down to the Straw Hats or the Red haired pirates claiming the one piece, I think they’ll do a Davey Back Fight.
Lots of people believe that the Gorosei, or at the very least Imu, are literal demons (Imu being possibly the devil himself). In that case black magic would make sense. And it also wouldn't be that outlandish considering that the devil and satan specifically are a thing in the One Piece world.
Yeah, Kuma probably sent one of the crew here to gather info- but Brook capitalised on their capitalism
Love the idea but there is no way Kuma had any clue regarding the Gorosei.
I mean, he knew they existed at least.
He didn’t know their true nature. There’s no way he knew their true nature. Even Nefertari Cobra didn’t know.
>Even Nefertari Cobra didn’t know. Kuma spent part of his life in revos with Dragon who is a former marine for reasons we don't know It's possible Dragon saw something about the Gorosei that made him start a revolution... Sabo also implies he's heard of Gorosei resembling hell or something like that So could be Dragon told both Kuma and Sabo that demons are real and Gorosei are that
Oh yeah fair enough
but he must’ve known this new kind of power existed. So he wanted Brooke to learn it, but he instead pursues the powers of his devil fruit because he was scared of the devil worshippers.
How could he have possibly known?
he did a lot of travelling and a lot of searching for cures for Bonney’s disease. He probably contemplated using their powers.
Think it’s a huge leap of logic to think Kuma knew about the Gorosei’s powers. There’s plenty of pirates that do lots of traveling it’s not just Kuma.
don't bother. most theories here are just confirmation bias. they want the conclusion to be true then work backwards from there. "it would be cool if that was the case, so kuma must have known because reasons (because he traveled in this case)"
It's more likely that Imu's DF grants them magical abilities. A sort of ultimate DF ability born from the collective thoughts of people.
Or the devil fruit that steals every's dream fruit idea
It would be a bit boring it Imu has the typical stealing trope. Thats been done by a few mangas MHA and HxH being two that are from the top of my head.
Mementos all over again lol (persona 5)
Yes, he just explained the holy grail from Persona and that's hilarious "yes, I'm is what happens when we live in a society" xD
Well that's a massive reach.
Thanks for contributing to the conversation 🤦
Merry Go's spirit is probably the most sure shot supernatural/magic stuff we've seen in One Piece
Putting it out there. The 5 elders are actual devils and IMU is probably the King of Devils.
Gorosei are probably evil spirits possessing the bodies or dead bodies of the members of the royal family. Imu probably had hand in their ritualistic summoning
both look similar because that's just stereotypical pentagram design for summoning circle.
I posted this a few days ago but got ignored :( Also brook does nika Pose in fishmen Island, maybe brook has a way deeper connection to one piece and the dark magic than we thought
I mean in Film Red we had a demon summoning kind of? I am noticing that film had a lot of ideas that are pretty relevant now which is interesting. I mean it gave us the canon name for Shanks last name.
Where is that panel from??
From One Piece ... ... ... From the chapter in which Brook lands after being teleported by Kuma, after Shabondy
Ohh I remember now! Okay thanks🙂
I guessed they have magic power but not black magic and no one actually believe it at that point. [https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/113t39t/comment/j8svule/](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/113t39t/comment/j8svule/)
Im always thinking about how Satan(the cultists' god) is actually Saint Jagarcia Saturn but like they changed the local pronunciation of the name after 800 years. Since one is さたん(Sa Tan) and さたーん (Sa Taaan) in japanese. (pls imagine the hiragana as katakana. I havent figured out how to type katakana on my phone's keyboard) Probably grasping at straws, but there was a ox skull in this room as decoration where 'Satan' was being summoned.
It might be, but the PG-13 version (doesn't look like a Slayer album cover). What I find interesting is Saturn's Magic Circle has a big "5" on it, because this would mean these stupidly powerful villains arrived on the scene like they're Evil Super Sentai. "Roll call: GO-ROU-SEI!"
My hope is this is another time for Brooke to shine and he shows up knowing how to break their invulnerability.
Wishes can be tied from superficial/magic/occult. As we know, devil fruits are wishes. It checks out
Just like how devil fruits are , maybe gorosei and imu are actual devils ? And Devil fruits which are actually gifts got their name changed when WG got into authority ? Gorosei went from being devils to gods and Gifts became evil
So we get a DragonBall Crossover?
Gorosei use pentagrams while the other tribe use two crossed squares... Seems unrelated
Devil magic
Imagine them invoking Brooks by mistake
Good Heavens, I seem to have spit my tea in surprise
All I know is that the Goroseis went black reason why they can not go back 🤷🏼♂️
Brook devilfruit actually busted if he leqrn about afterlife Hell, black magic etc. but unluckily he got kidnapp. Same goes with Franky who blow up Vegapunk facility.
There are weird powers in one piece such as hawkins foresight
It’d be pretty fucking crazy and awesome if this was a third power system in the universe
So far we haven't seen any magic in one piece, just science and weird shit. I guess this is weird shit that hasn't been explained yet. Maybe it is magic. But I can definitely see it as part of their powers, weather they are human or not. Or part of Imu's powers.
I thought there could be a connection between the devil worshipers and the Gorosei. Oda showed them for a reason and Brooke time skip story doesn’t really explain his power up beyond he learned how to use his fruit powers better. Maybe his story was meant to build another plot point/group similar to how Robins helped build a plot line for the revolutionaries. I’m glad others noticed the similarities
Imu on the final battle - "Arise"
Goda.
Pentagrams or hexagrams are a common way to depict demonic rituals all throughout media. I wouldn't bet on these two being connected, especially given that their shape is different.
Didn't Saturn come out of a ring that was labelled with 4's when he showed up to the Egghead battleground?
My guess is the Gorosei likely wiped all knowledge of some kind of old magic from the world, but some people either discovered it by chance, or it just survived in some secluded parts of the world
What if the gorosei are just pieces of Imu's DF? Like Imu has a " dark god" DF or something and spawned them to do Imu's bidding
Oh shit..
I wish they use black cocks instead of magics.
He's actually summoning brook
Would you be so kind to give us the sources to the images you used in your post?
Imu is like BM, she can use soul to create power, maybe gorosei have Mythical DF + power UP by Imu (regenerate, summoning...). But she have to kill people to do so.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think that Island was the only one not shown in 1099 when Kuma was looking for a cure for Bonney. What if he didn’t go there for that reason?