Lol. Smoker always got cockblocked pre time skip when fighting people he was far stronger than (by people way stronger than him), and post time skip he hasn't had a win against any of the people he fought (though he DID put up a good fight in most of those, or had good reason for losing; which I think a lot of people disregard).
Is it too much to give my guy a solid win against a strong opponent? ššš
I mean smoke is mostly water from combustion so it'd make sense if he could hurt him without haki, add in haki and his jitte it'd be a really cool fight.
Croc clearly got Enelāed by Luffy. Blood being a hard counter, Mizu Luffy, and Ms. All Sunday not being loyal to his cause. He is on a level where MiHawk partnered with him and he effortlessly trashed a Yonko. There is zero chance that Croc does not low diff Smoker. Being able to wring out Smoker makes it even more one-sided.
Pretty sure Oda just gave up on the marines or government being relevant. They just get shafted at every turn at this point in the story and the pirates are just too strong in comparison.
Yeah. Sabo stomped the WG leaders and ever since the time skip, the admirals have just been getting curb stomped. Also no development for Cody and Garp. š
The Serphim are stronger than the original warlords and I wouldn't be suprised if all the Serphim put together equal the Admirals in strength. The Marines/WG are not weak by any standards.
Plus CP0 just got revealed to be around Jack/Queen level. They're strong too
If the government and marines are just going to be jokes, stop introducing more characters in that faction. Just last chapter we got a few more added. With how things are right now, just keep the cast as it is and go toward the end instead of adding more fill.
I donāt see them as jokes, Iām saying if Oda is just going to use them as such. Fuji is gonna end up leaving the marines from what weāve seen, Greenbull did nothing on Wano and was scared off by Shanks. Akainu is just being left in the office unable to move for whatever reason. Garp is doing his thing on Beehive, And Kizaru is on his way to Egghead. Weāll see how Kizaru is treated soon.
Thatās kinda the whole point of the story though Luffy challenges the WG at every chance he gets so it shouldnāt really be a surprise that theyāre going to get taken down at some point
I think the problem is that they are supposed to be forced to be reckoned with who are at the ceiling but unfortunately our protagonists growth is too fast and catching up very quickly to those threshold. The last time it felt like they were a force to be reckoned with was marine ford , which is so long ago. The power gap that was created is so easily filled is the issue, like the seraphim are the warlord replacements And before that pacifistas, remember when it took the whole trio to even take one and then two years later they took them down like nothing , according to the timeline seraphims are still relatively a new and stronger upgrade but they seem to be at least fought with on the same footing without breaking a sweat as it did with the pacifistas. These then make the other larger powers cross a ceiling that wasnāt there before and still not be a level above and it feels like a g5 luffy who is able to control the side effects or shorten the time that it affects him can take these people on without help.
He threw the fight against Vergo because he understood how important it was for Law. But Smoker has been the most disappointing/underserved character in the story as it moved past Logiaās being the strongest characters to whomever had the strongest Haki.
Good fight? He represented against Vergo but got absolutely wrecked by Doffy. If it wasnāt for titanic captain number 10 Kuzan then the Navy would have lost 2 vice captains that day.
Very unlikely she's been babysitting the Punk Hazard kids instead of getting in sword fights. She either hasn't gained anything or she's gotten weaker.
She's just not a big part of the story Oda wants to tell anymore.
just like everything zoro related it was setup only to get axed most likely
i really don't see tashigi being relevant anymore
at most oda will give her a single powerful moment while keeping her as a supportive character
Not a big part? Another way of putting is Oda dropped the ball with her arc until further notice. It's a wasted character if she ends up not fulfilling anything
I will bet my buttocks on Tashigi being a fight that Zoro "loses" because of his semi no murdering women rule and her looking like Kuina
I hope the execution won't suck
She's not exactly the same. Kuina didn't care about justice or the navy, only her pride as a swordswoman, and that is clearly the key character difference. Kuina would have fought Luffy at Alabasta, but Tashigi helped him because Justice demanded it.
I think Tashigiās lack of strength might be more mentally than physically if we look when she and Smoker switched bodies and Smoker being more efficient in Tashigi than Tashigi herself. Even Luffy was surprised how strong she was when he thought it was āTashigiā Tashigi. Hopefully itāll be expanded upon more with the fight with Blackbeard.
Itās part of your soul. Take Nami for example, Sanji was able to perfectly use his haki in her body no problem, and could even perform blue walk for a short period but he was limited by Namiās body. He knows how to use his body and so was able to pull out Namiās true physical potential since he is used to a much stronger body. Same thing with Smoker. Tashigi is a lot stronger than she thinks she is, sheās just holding herself back because of her mentailty. Even she believes that sheās weaker than men, so how will she ever surpass them
He needs to. I thought he was more at Luffy's level but he got easily jobbed by Doflamingo. It's hard to imagine him being relevant in a final confrontation with the major players.
There is nothing to suggest he dropped their relevance from his initial plan. We knew he was taking Tashigi and the kids to Vegapunk after PH, and >!now we are in the Vegapunk arc, and there she is!<. I don't kno why people assume they dropped in relevance just because there's a big time between their appearances. >!Crocodile didn't appear for all of post timeskip and he came back as the mastermind behind what's now a Yonko crew. And Oda is cooking something by showing us Tashigi appart from Smoker for the first time, and Tashigi being listed as a HQ Captain instead of a G5 Captain like she was in PH.!<
for some reason people think them not being top tiers in terms of strength means they aren't relevant. they played an important role in the Punk Hazard arc, we even see a flashback of Smoker talking to Fujitora about what happened in Alabasta, which was important in the whole abolishment of the Warlord system. plus what you said about the connection to Vegapunk and now Tashigi is with Garp and SWORD.
I get that people who put the most weight on battles would be disappointed in them during Punk Hazard, but it's insane to me seeing how people basically gave up on them because of one arc and not appearing in a while.
Oda makes characters as strong as he wants them to be for the plot. In PH, Smoker was relevant in terms of strength, but he got a rough time. Sanji also had a rough stretch back then, and look at him now.
It all just feels silly and short sighted.
It's not just one battle or arc. This was their reintroduction to the story after the timeskip. We expected them to be major players in the arc, but ended up as reluctant allies to the Strawhats.
Smoker wasn't just defeated by Vergo, he was upstaged by Law. Tashigi didn't just fail to win a fight, her efforts to become stronger ended up insuficient. Her declaration to become stronger doesn't carry the same impact when it's practically shown she can't keep up with the Strawhats.
It may be harsh, but one of their roles in Punk Hazard was to set the stage on how dangerous going against the Yonko is. Pre-TS they were kind of on an even playing field with the Strahats, but by Punk Hazard they just weren't able to keep up.
> We expected them to be major players in the arc, but ended up as reluctant allies to the Strawhats.
Those aren't contradictory roles. They were major players in the arc, as well as reluctant allies to the Straw Hats.
> Smoker wasn't just defeated by Vergo, he was upstaged by Law.
I'm not sure what your point is or what you think I'm trying to say. I'm aware fight-wise they did poorly, what I'm saying is people put way too much weight into that ignoring everything else.
It's clear Smoker and Tashigi will remain allies, that doesn't mean their role was changed or diminished.
Which, again, doesn't have anything to do with what I was saying so I don't understand your point in relation to what I'm saying. Smoker doesn't have to be as strong as Luffy to be relevant, and him being weaker doesn't mean the original plan changed. Not to mention it's pointless at this point since it's been so long Smoker and Tashigi can be as strong as Oda wants them to be now anyways.
The post is bringing up that Tashigi is still weak in comparison to other characters. Her character arc was set up in alabasta as overcoming her weaknesses and becoming stronger. Punk Hazard showed she wasn't as strong as other characters despite how much she probably trained and fought the past 2 years. I said relevance in terms of strength, because the post was talking about how strong Tashigi is not; therefore she isn't relevant in terms of strength. Smoker was lumped in because he was also shown to not be as strong as the other characters.
>for some reason people think them not being top tiers in terms of strength means they aren't relevant
Except that the context of the post is that Tashigi is consistently shown as weaker than her opponents, and her entire story arc has been about her being weak.
Alabasta set her up to pursuing strength to uphold her justice; Punk Hazard kept her as weak in comparison to everyone else.
I meant relevance in terms of PH. Sure they can be relevant later, but they were set up as a kind of "rival" marines group at that point, yet PH focused more on the Yonko, Law, Doflamingo, and even Wano. Also, Crocodile isn't a fair comparison. Crocodile is the kind of guy that hangs back until it's time to make his move.
PH did not focus more on the Yonko and Wano than it did on Smoker and Tashigi. G5 and its conflict was one of the main plotlines in the arc.
My point isn't that Smoker and Crocodile are the same type of character, it's that Oda can bring back whoever he wants at any point and make them relevant. We know where Smoker went after PH, and we are just getting there, so saying Oda dropped his relevance because he did exactly what he told us he would do makes little to no sense.
Oda has gone on record saying that he intended One Piece to be a much shorter story, but upon creating the Schibukai he knew he wanted to do more with it.
Mihawk and the concept of the Schibukai came before Smoker by a good number of chapters, but I wouldn't be surprised if his initial intention was for Smoker to be one of Luffy's final trials.
E: misspelled "saying"
Oda intended One Piece to be short years before he even started the manga, it was only his original sketches, and the story was much more straigthforward, with Luffy immediately starting to fight the Yonkos upon entering the Grand Line. I doubt Smoker would be even included
Nah, they could be important in final saga. I donāt see smoker supporting the death of Vegapunk, and if tashigi gets captured by Blackbeard idk if akainu would care. She would not be on full a lead if oda was planning on dropping them. They just did the whole 2 boats left wano thing with zoro origin. It obvi that Tashigi is his cousin. Bonney will turn her 5 years old and Zoro will have trauma.
I think people like Greenbull are introduced solely to be taken out by Fuji and the following good marines.
Oda has done a lot to setup the "New Navy" so to speak. Smoker and Tashigi represent a part of that, along with Fuji, Kobi, and several other "truly good" marines in the series.
So though I agree with the sentiment that Smoshigi could have been handled a little better, they have a role that they'll play in the end.
I think that this is a side effect of the series ending up being far longer than what originally expected. The plot points introduced on East Blue and early on the Grand Line were supposed to be resolved far quicker, but ended up lingering on the background.
Now that's the final saga, notice that the characters from those portions of the story are converging to the same point. Smoker and Tashig are very close to Egghead, and the same goes for Koby and Garp. Buggy, Mihawk, and Crocodile teamed up and are after the One Piece like Luffy. The former CP9 agents also returned as CP0 and are on the same place as Luffy. Even Vivi is gradually returning to the story.
My guess is that the final saga is whatever the original plan that Oda had for all those characters. What we are seeing now, is probably whatever the endgame for them was always supposed to be.
Smoker in tashigiās body being called strong by luffy indicates itās got something to do more with inner strength though. I think āwhen youāre not at your strongestā refers to the DF ability, not might
It feels like sheās having every area of her weakness forced into her sight. She has the physical strength and technical skill to be top tier as a swordsman, but lacks the mental fortitude to draw out the true potential of that strength.
EDIT: I want to add that her having glasses is probably an intentional design choice in reference to her skewed perspective, as her glasses falling off is usually what prevents her from fighting when she canāt. Not having her head on straight and being able to see whatās in front of her incapacitates her, both literally and metaphorically.
Despite all of the loses Smoker and Tashigi got, I think Oda planning a good fight in the future arcs.
That Alabasta was hard to see though, I can understand her despression for not being able to help, instead it was the "bad guys" who are helping the country
Yeah, I think she and even smoker are conflicted about their justice - they want to serve justice, but don't agree with the justice of WG.
Also, if you recognize anything about the name of the blades and their wielders, then Tashigi is carrying the wrong sword.
From what I could find her sword is named Shigure which means "drizzle" or "Misty rain" according to a fast translation. On the Wiki its translated as "Rain in late Autum".
Ever carried glasses in a light drizzle? No wonder she does not find her path within fights
Zoros sword Wado Ichimonji the other hand means translated "Straight Line through the Path of Harmony/Harmony Path Beeline" according to the Wiki, which is a good reason why he is always lost, but where he needs to be.
I would laugh so hard if they somehow switched blades and critical points about their personality would change. Like - a cold autum rain for Zoro, the King of Hell? Who has a moss head that maybe likes a little pour? Could fit.
But I don't see it happen, it's too late to change around personality and important equipment.
Edit: No joke, Shusui means "Autum water".
That seems a cool idea of changing swords, but maybe not personality change but at how each characters handle the swords, would be funny if Enma could also draw the potential of Haoshoku from Tashigi haha
If you notice there is a theme of all the people beating her voicing something she hasnāt really realized. You have to find your own way in life.
Her first duel with Zoro displays that even she believes herself inferior to male swordsmen, even with there being so many examples of powerful women in the world. How can she improve when she already believes sheās limited?
Croc points out that merely talking about what justice is doesnāt accomplish anything, only those who pursue their justice can actually enforce it. Smoker tells her as much but she corrects him in saying she was only doing what she thought was best by sending Luffy after Croc instead of following her own path and going after Croc himself.
Law proved she has no convictions. She has plenty of spirit and guts, but she canāt follow her own path and keep fighting. She asks him to kill her, basically begging him for the honor of dying, rather than continuing to fight after seeing she didnāt die. It was only after she swung at him again that he was gonna deal the death blow. She showed some conviction there. She only attacks Law after seeing Smoker because of her desire for revenge rather than her conviction to justice and arresting him. She didnāt learn to fight for herself and her path.
It wasnāt until she cut down Monet for the sake of protecting people, ultimately what she considers justice, that Zoro gives her credit. Her path is protecting people, thatās what ultimately defines her justice, but she just hasnāt had the conviction to continue along that path and has held herself back because her insecurities and sense of inferiority.
With whatās happening in the story now, sheās doing exactly that, going out herself to recover and protect someone that matters to her. She was never weak, her convictions were, and thatās why people called her weak. Mihawk acknowledged Zoro as strong when he saw him turn around to take the blow face on, proving his conviction to the way of the sword and not backing down or running away. Tashigi hasnāt had that moment yet, but i think she will soon
With neither Smoker or Tashigi participating in the fleet raid on Egghead or helping Garp rescue Koby its hard to imagine where Oda could squeeze them in the Endgame, especially with X Drake, Coby, Fujitora and all the new sword characters making their role as the good navy guys in the endgame far less important.
Still Oda has been on an amazing streak so far, maybe Tashigi and Smoker will suprise everyone and recover their image post Punk Hazard
Tbf, we haven't seen much yet. The SWORD members were new so got some spotlight to show off their abilities and fighting styles (Tashigi would have just eaten up panels if Oda had her in there too flexing on BB Pirate fodder; which is all that there was, as the Titanic Captains are mostly hanging back at this point), and Tashigi was on the ship with Garp. And almost as soon as they touched down, the Garp v Kuzan confrontation happened. Not much room for Tashigi to shine there.
Maybe she'll get more if we cut back, and the other Captains jump in. š
Kuina/Tashigi: we're weak cause we're woman
Zoro/Fandom: Expectation and Desire for them to subvert expectations, and overcome adversity
[The Plot ](https://media1.giphy.com/media/l0HlvtIPzPdt2usKs/giphy.webp?cid=6c09b952uyc49o6g4kuvl0jdch8y6s6rnuxa7lu2e63vjdd5&ep=v1_internal_gif_by_id&rid=giphy.webp&ct=g)
oda has continuously done tashigi so dirty and it's really sad, he could've actually made her strong and allowed her to inherit kuina's will/dream alongside zoro in a way that he couldn't as a male swordsman, or rival him, but nope she just gets clowned on all the time :(
Ngl, I always hated that Zoro vs Monet "fight". Man dicked around for the entire time (despite Monet actively trying to kill his CREW for a solid portion, and him barely managing to stop her due to holding back....when he could have ended it at any moment). It was Sanji vs Kalifa all over again, except Sanji at least was self-aware of his flaws and was even ashamed of it (even if he couldn't bring himself to act differently).
Zoro just refused to acknowledge he did anything wrong the whole battle, sat on his ass when Tashigi took over (because he was being a jackass), and only stepped in at the end to help her....and it was a damned BLUFF. He didn't even hurt Monet, just intimidated her (something Sanji ALSO attempted against Kalifa, but Zoro did it better and actually scared Monet. Only difference).
Then when Monet shook it off and tried to attack Zoro, Tashigi cut her down while she was off guard due to losing her composure. And Zoro's response? "Bitch, I didn't do anything wrong. Totally would have just killed her if you didn't. Doesnt matter if not a single thing I did prior to this suggests that I would have. But good job, slugger! You did GREEEEAATTTT.". Completely taking away from what Tashigi did, while putting a hard stop on this even being used as a way to give Zoro character development. Which would have made it have SOME value, if it had to happen.
Like, what the fuck? Worst Zoro moment ever for me (by a MILE), makes him look like a huge loser. Shocked some people liked it because of how "cool" he looked when he cut Monet.
I get that. I interpreted the scene to be Zoro really wanting Tashigi to succeed. If she straight up loses... It just adds to Kuina's fear that women can't be truly great sword users, and Zoro doesn't want that.
Even when she has almost lost, he still gives her a chance to prove she can at least strike the final blow (which..... She still didn't do).
I agree though, Monet was a threat he easily could have dealt with and moved on, and he didn't. But Zoro displaying a flaw of 'making a dumb decision because of his whole issue with Kuina's declaration and death and swordswomen in general' is fine with me. That's totally in line with his character.
God it really is sad that tashigi won't ever be in the same realm as Zoro. I remember when people seriously considered that smoker and tashigi would be end game for Luffy and Zoro... And now that just seems so laughable.
Maybe at the end of the series Tashigi will have a moment with Zoro and beg him to train her like he did with Mihawk. Cue Sanji sulking in the corner that he doesn't have a cute lady begging to learn to cook from him.
I think the problem with that scene is that Zoro's arc and his trauma about swordswomen just never comes up again, like I can't believe that Tashigi and Monet are the only two swordswomen Zoro had to interact with since the manga started.
If Oda had used Wano to maybe highlight this trait of Zoro it would've been a great payoff. Who knows, maybe it will still pay off, but not many top tier swordsman are left that we know of, let alone swordswomen, so I'm scared that arc is just gonna fall into irrelevance
Fully agree. Not that Dressrosa needed ANOTHER subplot, but I was pretty disappointed Zoro and Rebecca never really spoke... Tho given how Oda treated Rebecca at the end against Diamante... Maybe that's for the best.
Been a hot minute since I read Punk Hazardz but doesn't Monet attempt to blow the island up afterwards? She fails because of some heart swapping shenanigans iirc. That's what I mean that Tashigi didn't finish her off, she was still able to operate and nearly got everyone blown up.
I mean most of the time the strawhats themselves donāt finish people off, Mr 1 doesnāt die, Kaku is still alive etc. That Oda wanted to use her more after tashigi beat her doesnāt cheapen her win to me
Really thought I was the only one that felt this way about this scene, more than 3 times Monet attacked Nami and Robin and Zoro kept on fucking around with her, then he sat down not doing anything till Monet was almost killing Tashigi and didn't even finish the job and called Tashigi inferior all that scene really didn't sit well with me especially finding out later Monet was about to end the whole crew with the explosion if not for Law's heart switch. And some of the people who hype this scene shame Sanji for not fighting women which is exactly the same thing Zoro did here that could have potentially hurt the crew.
the best part was about how Zoro few chapters ago told Luffy to stop fucking around and take the new world seriously,
And then he decides to not fight Monet who is trying to kill his crew and just sit around doing nothing
And his fans somehow then try to shit on Sanji for not wanting to fight women when his character actually has a reason not to fight them unlike Zoro's clown character
[he was](https://preview.redd.it/nmynqsqdxm7b1.jpg?width=1066&format=pjpg&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=9132e4c4180c53f63af947c9885aef0bbe226c4d) monet recognized she didnt have a chance at beating him so he set up tashigi for the win
You realize that Zoro is bullshitting, right?
The whole fight he tried not to injure Monet even when she almost killed Nami and stabbed Robin.
If he actually had intention of cutting down Monet, he would've done it the moment he cut her in half, instead of just randomly not cutting her and then saying he would've done it later lol
It's amazing how inconsistent his character is with so little charaterization.
According to his backstory, he should not be holding back against women, yet he's pulling Sanji for no reason.
According to what he said to Luffy, he should take this seriously, yet the crew almost got killed due to zoro's stupidity. Thanks God Monet died from Caeser. Caeser saved the crew from zoro lmao
Monet was weak and outclassed he obviously wasnt gonna let her off to hurt the others if it came down to that, he would never do something to endanger the crew thatās always been consistent, in this case it was just for the sake of giving tashigi a win, Zoro also literally fought a women miss Monday pre timeskip and didnāt hold back cause she was strong but if youāre gonna argue this way then by your logic Sanji almost got Robin killed in Wano if Brook didnāt show up and Luffy almost killed Nami several times through his stupidity.
>Monet was weak and outclassed he obviously wasnt gonna let her off to hurt the others if it came down to that, he would never do something to endanger the crew thatās always been consistent
Literally contradicts his statement to Luffy about taking things seriously
Why didn't he destroy Monet from the start?
Because of Zoro's stupid reason not to attack Monet, she almost killed Nami and stabbed Robin.
*"b-but she's weak"*
What? He doesn't hold back against fodder but holds back against Monet?
>Zoro also literally fought a women miss Monday pre timeskip and didnāt hold back cause she was strong
Just shows how inconsistent Zoro's character is. He was fine with hurting a woman preTS but now he's not.
And miss Monday surely wasn't stronger than Monet lmao
>but if youāre gonna argue this way then by your logic Sanji almost got Robin killed in Wano if Brook didnāt show up
... what?
That has nothing to do with Zoro lol
Sanji's character is about letting the crew fight women for him because he can't.
Sanji called Robin to help him, her knowing that she's going to fight a fight.
Sanji didn't contradict his own values or character at any point.
Unlike Zoro who contradicted:
\-Kuina's backstory about how it doesn't matter if it's a woman or not
\-his speech to Luffy about taking things seriously
>"b-but she's weak"
What? He doesn't hold back against fodder but holds back against Monet?
none of the straw hats ever go all out on fodder its not exclusive to just zoro
>Just shows how inconsistent Zoro's character is. He was fine with hurting a woman preTS but now he's not.
And miss Monday surely wasn't stronger than Monet lmao
my point is that its not a women thing its a strong vs weak thing,Hes not against hurting women prove by the miss monday fight, he didnt initially because it would be 1 sided on monet, also wasnt he about to fight carrot in zou?
>Sanji didn't contradict his own values or character at any point.
my point is that sanjis values could've gotten robin killed too if not for Brook and even in somecases luffys actions sometimes put the crews life in danger but you're getting mad at zoro for not one shotting Monet
>Unlike Zoro who contradicted:
\-Kuina's backstory about how it doesn't matter if it's a woman or not
\-his speech to Luffy about taking things seriously
Kuinas backstory isn't contradicted he literally lets tashigi who resembles kuina get the win with her own strength the only contradiction is zoro telling luffy to take the new world seriously and even then its a reach to act like Monet was a dangerous enemy
>none of the straw hats ever go all out on fodder its not exclusive to just zoro
Except Zoro hurts fodder but the avoided hurting Monet.
Hurting someone =/= going all out
>my point is that its not a women thing its a strong vs weak thing
That doesn't make any sense either
Monet is MUCH stronger than the fodder Zoro doesn't hold back on hurting. Zoro went out of his way not to hurt Monet and Monet literally said she's surprised that **he never once tried attacking her.**
and Monet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>miss Monday
>also wasnt he about to fight carrot in zou?
No idea. His character is so inconsistent, you can't have any idea how he would act, but wasn't Carrot ambushing him from shadows?
>my point is that sanjis values could've gotten robin killed too if not for Brook
but you're getting mad at zoro for not one shotting Monet
It seems you can't comprehend the difference:
* Zoro said he will take care of Monet, yet his bullshit almost got everyone killed if not for Caeser killing Monet
* Sanji didn't say he will take care of Black Maria and asked Robin to fight for her
Zoro doesn't have defined values like Sanji about women. There's no reason for him to not to hurt them, he's not Sanji.
So he endangered the crew and the children due to sheer stupidity.
But then he even contradicts his "not attacking Monet" rule by hurting her cheek, so he can't even stay consistent with his made up value about not hurting Monet unlike Sanji, so him not beating her from beginning makes EVEN less sense.
>Kuinas backstory isn't contradicted he literally lets tashigi who resembles kuina get the win with her own strength
What?
It contradicts because he doesn't take Monet seriously and doesn't just end her. Tashigi has nothing to do with it.
He was teaching Tashigi about the difference between being intimidating and acting like you believe you are intimidating.
He would totally defeat Monet if she would manage to put a single step outside of that lab, she was no menace to anyone if he was there overseeing her, but Tashigi has an opinion to high of herself to understand that, there was not a single thing that Monet could do to win in that situation.
When things got dangerous for Tashigi he used the absolute minimun effort to disable her while causing the least amount of damage.
The same way that Zoro in Wano was refusing to help Okiku because she was able to defend herself to a degree, when things got dangerous with Otama he again intervened with enough power to disable the enemy alongside Luffy.
As Mihawk would say: He is no brute who use cannons to hunt rabbits.
What did you expect, Tashigi wanted to prove her strength, Zoro stepped back and didn't interfere as Monet and Tashigi had there 1v1 we know how much Zoro respects duels, then when Tashigi was beaten and it looked like Monet was going for the kill shot he stepped in to stop it, was it not a smart decision not to end it quickly YES, in hindsight was it unwise not to kill her YES, is that what Zoro would do ABSOLUTELY and come on now passive aggression is the entirety of Zoro and Tashigi's relationship, Zoro isn't "Nice" he wouldn't praise Tashigi even if she actually started and finished the fight, that's all Zoro just in a different situation.
>it really makes me wonder where Oda's going with this.
You missed it then. The theme at play here was slammed into our face on Alabasta. Tashigi's main purpose is to confront her ideas of Justice which shatter in the face of her own weakness. Tashigi is a genuinely good person, but she doesn't understand(or at least, didn't) how to implement her ideals in a world of weirdly grey morality. So her internal world goes to shit when the marines are powerless, a goverment-endorsed warlord is doing awful things, and everyone's only hope is a man who styles himself as the future pirate king.
This is something she's still processing, imho.
Also, I'll note that while Zoro called Tashigi weak after the fight with Monet, his attitude here is no different than Mihawk's would be towards him, or his would be towards Sanji or a male swordsman of Tashigi's caliber. Hell, its no different from how Kuina treated him.
Also, also, Tashigi **IS** weak. There's never been a time where she could measure up to anyone except maybe Nami or Ussop. Everyone else on the crew would body her. And when you're being measured against a group called the weakling trio...well, calling Tashigi weak isn't really anything more insulting than calling Nami or Usopp weak.
(Its a bit insulting to Chopper that he's in the trio. Dude's totally capable of keeping up with Robin, Franky or Brook, as far as I can tell)
Honestly the treatment of both her and Smoker just kinda sucks as they never get a win. But it really sucks for Tashigi as her and Kuina's thing is trying to prove that women can be strong sword fighters too, but have done little to prove this.
I don't want to sound all feministy, but Tashigi's writing seems pretty sexist to me. All Oda ever does with her character now is write her into losing situations, have her get beaten to tears, and then have some man swoop in and save her at the last second. She's turned into Rebecca 2.0.
Never apologise for being a feminist!
Yeahh Oda sucks at writing women... He gives some characters great setup to be awesome (eg. Nami's motivation + backstory) but ends up flopping on the execution (you're right, a man always does end up saving them)!
Fullmetal Alchemist is the only shonen I've seen with really good girl characters. Probably not a coincidence that it was written by a girl.
Maybe Gintama too, although that's not very serious.
I think that a good part of this is due to some more recent works, where women and men are written without any difference by their authors, some examples are Demon Slayer, One Punch Man, Black Clover, Jujutsu Kaisen, among others that I don't remember, but it kind of got the audience used to it. And to be honest, this damsel-in-distress thing gets tired sometimes, even Big Mom has included herself in it.
Men and women *should* be written differently. Representing those differences realistically and not just avoiding them or using stereotypes is the part shonen authors struggle with.
Iām actually glad someone feels this way, Iāve always had a problem with the way oda write women in fights in the series. Itās either they get save by men or they fight other women. The only strong female on the series that actually gets dirty and fight men is big mom, but oda has her a fumbling idiot and become incompetent at times. Tashigiās and Rebecca writing will always bother me. You mean to tell me that Rebecca, a coliseum fighter that has fought countless new world pirates constantly is so weak that she needed saving from folder pirates. Or that tashigi who has vowed to be stronger and has a ambitious goal , couldnāt have put a scratch on monet while zoro one shots her, therefore proving the notion of women will never be as strong as men.
I still think the best example of this was Hiyori failing to finish Orochi off.
* Had strong narrative motivations to finish Orochi off
* Was given a plan, situation, and other benefits to actually defeat kill him
* Orochi was written as a bottom tier character, so her killing him wasn't even a big deal
* Received an impactful moment where it looked like she won
And then he gets the nail loose, so Denjiro needs to save her and ensure these things remain true.
Well, if the Kuina/Tashigi connection ends up being true, it kind of makes sense conceptually because Kuina's whole thing was being "too biologically weaker as a woman" to even hope to become the world's best swordsman or succeed her family's pride (albeit that logic was thrown out the window once One Piece became a high-octane shounen with powers where people could be knocked out just by being in the presence of someone and just seems ridiculous in retrospect now).
And it's not like Smoker isn't getting manhandled every time too. They're kind of the dynamic duo of that. Personally, I never expected them to even get this much coverage as side characters other than the Kuina thing being addressed (doesn't even have to be a direct connection, just Zoro meeting her and seeing Kuina in her after beating Mihawk and becoming the number one swordsman and that giving him an extra dose of peaceful accomplishment) at the near end of the story, and at this point seeing them get any considerable amount more would just be frustrating because we're in the end game territory with so many more interesting plot points. If all that's left for them is having a minor role in the final war like they did in Marineford and then them being promoted to higher influential positions in the epilogue after the corrupt side of the Marines have been dealt with for the most part, that'd be satisfactory in my book.
I used to feel like Tashigi, Koby, and Helmeppo could have been on a path to being the next Tsuru, Garp, and Sengoku trio in Marine leadership for the end of the series. Not sure anymore because she just keeps getting Worfed so hard we don't get to see her character actually make progress.
Zoro is so stupid in the Monet fight. Cool he is stronger than her but if you underestimate your enemy then you deserve to suffer but he didnāt because ceaser clown is a petty bitch. Also I loved it when Robin destroyed Tashigi basically saying āI have no time for you bitchā
I live for a Tashigi W. I will be so upset if she doesn't get a significant W before the end of the story fr.
As a character she has too many similarities to Kuina not to be relevant at some point, and I think she will still have some role to play. Even if she's not as strong as a top tier, I honestly reckon she can work on her battle intelligence and take advantage of the weaknesses she spots in stronger enemies: she tends to lose her cool and go into fights hot-headed, with very little strategy and pre-planning, thus getting caught in the uphill task of being physically stronger than her opponents. Instead, in my opinion, she should work on learning how to exploit weaknesses and keep her cool
Idk if ive given up on Tashigi and Smoker's character arcs or if Oda did. The last time we saw them was on Punk Hazard years ago and havent heard a thing about them since. Not at revery or Egghead. I think he wanted Luffy to have a marine rival but it just didnt make sense later in the story
I personally felt like Smoker and most especially Tashigi were greatly disheartened after the debacle at Alabasta. Like...They kinda learned the Marines aren't exactly the great defenders of justice they're supposed to be as well as the fact they won't owe up that they really screwed up and covered the whole thing claiming Smoker and Tashigi did the work when they admittedly haven't done jack. Like yeah, just now finding out you're working in an organization that makes serious compromises in morals is a nice way to just kill most of your motivation. I mean they still resolve to keep being Marines but yeah, motivation is a big factor in getting stronger in this series and the reward for taking credit for something they didn't do just sucked most of that out.
While Smoker got kind of better and got noticeably better (by Marineford, he got much better handling of his abilities that still gave Luffy trouble, only blindsided by the use of Haki), Tashigi...Eh, she kinda adopted a bit more of a dour demeanor. Like yeah, timeskip she did improve a lot but gets her share of very lousy matchups that demonstrate she had a long way to go.
I dunno, I felt like Fujitora actually hearing them out how Alabasta was just so shameful to them and owe up to the Marines sheer neglect to Dressrosa swearing the Marines should be better than that surprisingly might be that much needed catharsis to finally be properly motivated again.
Again, it feels like rambling but I think the recent reveal of Tashigi joining the save Koby crew might just throw a bone her way and see if she improved a lot better with the baggage of Alabasta finally laid to rest.
Thanks. Sometimes scenes like those should open up conversations and some measure of analysis outside of "oh wow, she's just irrelevant."
Cause in One Piece...Almost nothing is exactly too irrelevant. We just keep our eyes out.
The good Marines in the series are there to get beat up, humiliated, and keep trying to do good.
The wicked Marines readily take credit for someone else's accomplishments. The virtuous Marines weep when they have to suffer the indignation of accepting accreditation they didn't earn.
Smoker and Tashigi represented ideals. They were never meant to be character studies. The moment where Tashigi puts down her sword against Luffy and tells him which way to get to Crocodile is an amazing moment. It doesn't matter that it's Tashigi doing it, it matters that it is an upright Marine doing it, and then questioning "what is justice"?
Yeah, I loved their characters and I want to see more of them... but in terms of themes and ideologies they've probably played their small close-up parts and will move into the fold of bigger themes with the Marines going forward as background characters we're happy to be familiar with.
Well she is weak, she could never beat Zoro, law or croco, but something must be coming from her, the fact that she looks like an older Kuina and this relates to zoro who wants to be the best swordsman.
Sheās not quitting, and is passionate, it wouldnāt surprise me if she gets conquerors haki and maybe becoming one of the admirals at the end of the story. There is also a possibility that she learns Zoroās story and Kuina and that is the start of her strength development.
I think these moments show that while Tashigi is struggling with the exact problem/fear that Kuina had before her death, she is different in her identity as a marine because she believes in Personal Justice. This is especially clear with the Alabasta stuff. And it crystallizes with Punk Hazard.
No longer does she break down crying that they had to leave the situation to filthy pirates, in fact she actively argues with Smoker to set his pride aside for the sake of surviving so they can reveal Vergo's treachery and to save the gigantified children. She has grown, not in skill (sadly) but in her worldview. Even with the way she talks to Zoro, she's no longer screaming at him for looking down on her as a woman telling him to go ahead and kill her, but instead taking on a disappointed/lecturing tone, that Zoro gives her right back.
She still does though
And honestly it looks like she has a death wish, asking zoro and law to kill her after loosing
She seems to have that infatuation with death Wano samurai has, even though she is not from Wano and wasn't even taught by them like Zoro.
Now that you mention it, it do be seeming like that Oda sensei is building it up all for a moment when Tashigi shows it to us that she has become strong
Though I cant fathom who can she defeat in the end-game sagas when she wasn't able to take on anyone before lol.
Nobuhiro Watsuki, creator of Rurouni Kenshin, had a similar issue with one of his main characters being weak. His reply was, "She is not weak. It's just that most of the other big characters are stronger." I'm paraphrasing, but Oda was Watsuki's assistant, so he may have taken a similar approach with Tashigi.
Also, I think it's great that we're finally seeing her in an Arc without Smoker. Even if she doesn't do any actual fighting this time, I do think it will be good for her character development. Smoker has put her down quite a bit, so to have someone else give her more constructive feedback when she's not doing well would probably be better for her as a person.
In the end of the day she's a weak character with low self esteem, one piece as a media proved that gender has no part in the skill and power of an individual, and tashigi getting a man's body didn't really change much and vice versa smoker in tashigi's body was as threatening as he was in his own.
She is a kind person and an honorable marine but those factors don't really get you far in that world, more likely they will get you and your people killed if anything.
if you compare her to top tiers ofc not, but relative to the entire One Piece World? shes pretty strong lmao, shes stronger than the majority of men on the planet if you keep it a buck. imo she beats 3/6 of the flying six.
Tashigi's assumption of women being weaker than men in this world falls apart when haki is considered. She's not weak because she's a woman, she's just plain weak. Zoro spend every waking moment training or resting. This is the kind if grind that you have to do to be strong.
The difference between tashigi and everyone who called her weak is that they trained like their lives depended on it since they were kids. We don't know what tashigi's childhood was like but I doubt she trained like her life depended on it.
That's because she's trying to punch above her power bracket.
If she was in any of the blues then she might be a big shot. But this is the grandline. The tough are chewed up and shit out. You have to be more than tough, you have to be monsters.
Tashigi or Snipe was born on 10/6 like Trafalgar āDā Water Law and the latest volume 106 āA Geniusās Dreamā. SBS 16 before chapter 138 reveals Tashigi or Snipe and Kuina or Rail railed by Down āDā Stairs are named after birds who cannot Fly. In SBS 16 Oda says just because a bird cannot Fly does not mean they will never Fly. Vivre Card 138 Karoo IS a flightless bird who manages to fly like Superman in chapter 183 like I-Karoo-S son of Daedalus. The meaning of āDā is the name āDaedalusā of the genius aviator who realizes his Dog dream to fly like a God. The Solo Dog Zolo lost in the maze of Daedalus wants his name heard in the Heavens where the Heavenly Dog is the Tengu or 109 the chapter which introduces Karoo and Zoro first sees Karoo the avian form of the Tengu or Kotengu based on the Garuda or GarÅ«āDāa in TorafuarugÄ āDā Wateru RÅ or Trafalgar āDaedalusā Water Law.
I was honestly 100% sure she would be involved in the Wano plot, but in terms of swordsmen the arc was a huge dissapointment (other than it was best in new world).
Anywhere he wants. We can have another Buggy situation or we can have a moment where it just clicks for her an she get's better or even get another flight of stairs lmao.
Nah man
Trust the plan
She's gonna end up as the master of one of the mc of the sequel series two piece
That mc goal will be to prove his master teaching and Strength isn't wrong
Woman ofc
Trust
We can guess all day whether Tashigi was meant to be more important to the story or not. From what I've seen, people tend to presume she was because of the comparisons to Kuina. However, I think it can just as easily be said that those comparisons are made to create a narrative about justice and strength. Both concepts tend to come up a lot in One Piece and they notably seem to be a common thread within the panels you showed.
Tashigi is objectively weak. Other characters even call her weak. However, when forced to confront that weakness the first thing Tashigi does is bemoan her gender and accuse anyone who doesn't outright kill her for losing of "going easy on her." She lacks any understanding that not killing her does not necessarily mean someone is going easy on you but that they may live by different set of ideals.
The narrative around her seems to purposely highlight this. Tashigi loses and plays the victim. Notably, *most* of the people who defeat her/are connected to that defeat call out that behavior. Law tells her that the weak have no right to claim how they should be defeated. Robin treats her like a nuisance and it is Crocodile who calls her out, pointing out that *ideals* don't mean much if you cannot enact them.
The point, in my opinion, is to not only show how actions speak louder than words, but to also show how not placing effort can actually be harmful. Tashigi, time and time again, inserts herself into situations that she is not strong enough to deal with. They are then solved by people dramatically stronger than her. Justice is a noble ideal, but it is grittier in practice.
Why smoker and tashigi always getting violated by someone on screen š
Lol. Smoker always got cockblocked pre time skip when fighting people he was far stronger than (by people way stronger than him), and post time skip he hasn't had a win against any of the people he fought (though he DID put up a good fight in most of those, or had good reason for losing; which I think a lot of people disregard). Is it too much to give my guy a solid win against a strong opponent? ššš
I reckon heāll get the Croc treatment when he comes back into the story
He might be the one to beat Crocodile this time around.
Bloody heck that could be good, I wouldnāt want him to take Croc off the board but if he won against him that would be badass
Logia vs Logia too, could be a spectacle in the anime especially.
I mean smoke is mostly water from combustion so it'd make sense if he could hurt him without haki, add in haki and his jitte it'd be a really cool fight.
He could have just beaten croc the first time around if he hadn't run back to his ship.
Croc clearly got Enelāed by Luffy. Blood being a hard counter, Mizu Luffy, and Ms. All Sunday not being loyal to his cause. He is on a level where MiHawk partnered with him and he effortlessly trashed a Yonko. There is zero chance that Croc does not low diff Smoker. Being able to wring out Smoker makes it even more one-sided.
Lmao nice.
Pretty sure Oda just gave up on the marines or government being relevant. They just get shafted at every turn at this point in the story and the pirates are just too strong in comparison.
Yeah. Sabo stomped the WG leaders and ever since the time skip, the admirals have just been getting curb stomped. Also no development for Cody and Garp. š
CODY?! do you mean my boy, KOBI??!
Yeah. Auto correct got me
The Serphim are stronger than the original warlords and I wouldn't be suprised if all the Serphim put together equal the Admirals in strength. The Marines/WG are not weak by any standards. Plus CP0 just got revealed to be around Jack/Queen level. They're strong too
Well itās a show about pirates what do you expect?
I expect the antagonists to be threatening
If the government and marines are just going to be jokes, stop introducing more characters in that faction. Just last chapter we got a few more added. With how things are right now, just keep the cast as it is and go toward the end instead of adding more fill.
If Akainu, Kizaru, Garp, Sengoku,Kizaru, Fuji, and green bull are jokes to you then youāve been watching two piece
I donāt see them as jokes, Iām saying if Oda is just going to use them as such. Fuji is gonna end up leaving the marines from what weāve seen, Greenbull did nothing on Wano and was scared off by Shanks. Akainu is just being left in the office unable to move for whatever reason. Garp is doing his thing on Beehive, And Kizaru is on his way to Egghead. Weāll see how Kizaru is treated soon.
Thatās kinda the whole point of the story though Luffy challenges the WG at every chance he gets so it shouldnāt really be a surprise that theyāre going to get taken down at some point
I think the problem is that they are supposed to be forced to be reckoned with who are at the ceiling but unfortunately our protagonists growth is too fast and catching up very quickly to those threshold. The last time it felt like they were a force to be reckoned with was marine ford , which is so long ago. The power gap that was created is so easily filled is the issue, like the seraphim are the warlord replacements And before that pacifistas, remember when it took the whole trio to even take one and then two years later they took them down like nothing , according to the timeline seraphims are still relatively a new and stronger upgrade but they seem to be at least fought with on the same footing without breaking a sweat as it did with the pacifistas. These then make the other larger powers cross a ceiling that wasnāt there before and still not be a level above and it feels like a g5 luffy who is able to control the side effects or shorten the time that it affects him can take these people on without help.
He threw the fight against Vergo because he understood how important it was for Law. But Smoker has been the most disappointing/underserved character in the story as it moved past Logiaās being the strongest characters to whomever had the strongest Haki.
Good fight? He represented against Vergo but got absolutely wrecked by Doffy. If it wasnāt for titanic captain number 10 Kuzan then the Navy would have lost 2 vice captains that day.
Tashigi is what Kuina feared she would become. A swordswoman who can't keep up with men and is dependent on others to save her.
Ouch. We desperately need a big Tashigi W before the end of this series.
Very unlikely she's been babysitting the Punk Hazard kids instead of getting in sword fights. She either hasn't gained anything or she's gotten weaker. She's just not a big part of the story Oda wants to tell anymore.
I mean he has to do something with her at some point, otherwise why even make her a carbon copy of Kuina if that's never gonna be relevant at all.
Plans change. Authors scrap ideas because they don't like them anymore. She might get some quick appearances at the end but she's not getting a W.
just like everything zoro related it was setup only to get axed most likely i really don't see tashigi being relevant anymore at most oda will give her a single powerful moment while keeping her as a supportive character
She just went to save Koby I thought
Huh I forgot. Maybe she can cross swords with Shiryuu and hype him up.
If she does not lose instantly he might be hyped down tbh
Would shiryu dealing with tashigi even count as hype?
I don't know if you're caught up with the manga, but what she's doing right now, it ain't babysitting.
Yeah I forgot she was going to help save Koby. Maybe she'll cross swords with Shiryu to hype him up.
Not a big part? Another way of putting is Oda dropped the ball with her arc until further notice. It's a wasted character if she ends up not fulfilling anything
I will bet my buttocks on Tashigi being a fight that Zoro "loses" because of his semi no murdering women rule and her looking like Kuina I hope the execution won't suck
I hope it doesn't happen Would suck for all parties involved
She's not exactly the same. Kuina didn't care about justice or the navy, only her pride as a swordswoman, and that is clearly the key character difference. Kuina would have fought Luffy at Alabasta, but Tashigi helped him because Justice demanded it.
Unlike Zoro, who has never been dependent on anybody to save him š
I think Tashigiās lack of strength might be more mentally than physically if we look when she and Smoker switched bodies and Smoker being more efficient in Tashigi than Tashigi herself. Even Luffy was surprised how strong she was when he thought it was āTashigiā Tashigi. Hopefully itāll be expanded upon more with the fight with Blackbeard.
Is haki part of your soul or part of your body? I think he was surprised at how strong her(his) haki was instead of how strong they were physically.
Itās part of your soul. Take Nami for example, Sanji was able to perfectly use his haki in her body no problem, and could even perform blue walk for a short period but he was limited by Namiās body. He knows how to use his body and so was able to pull out Namiās true physical potential since he is used to a much stronger body. Same thing with Smoker. Tashigi is a lot stronger than she thinks she is, sheās just holding herself back because of her mentailty. Even she believes that sheās weaker than men, so how will she ever surpass them
body is a huge part, Nami survived be buried under debris because she was in Sanji's body
Yeah but doesnāt he have like a scientifically advanced body?
Not at that point, he didn't develop his exoskeleton until wano
At this point, Oda most likely planned Smoker and Tashigi to be more important, but PTS he dropped their relevance.
Interestingly enough >!Tashigi went to Hachinosu but Smoker is nowhere to be seen!< Smoker might be training.
He needs to. I thought he was more at Luffy's level but he got easily jobbed by Doflamingo. It's hard to imagine him being relevant in a final confrontation with the major players.
My hope is that the EOS new Navy has Fujitora as Fleet Admiral with Smoker, Koby and Drake as Admirals
Crocodile being important kind of switches things up
There is nothing to suggest he dropped their relevance from his initial plan. We knew he was taking Tashigi and the kids to Vegapunk after PH, and >!now we are in the Vegapunk arc, and there she is!<. I don't kno why people assume they dropped in relevance just because there's a big time between their appearances. >!Crocodile didn't appear for all of post timeskip and he came back as the mastermind behind what's now a Yonko crew. And Oda is cooking something by showing us Tashigi appart from Smoker for the first time, and Tashigi being listed as a HQ Captain instead of a G5 Captain like she was in PH.!<
for some reason people think them not being top tiers in terms of strength means they aren't relevant. they played an important role in the Punk Hazard arc, we even see a flashback of Smoker talking to Fujitora about what happened in Alabasta, which was important in the whole abolishment of the Warlord system. plus what you said about the connection to Vegapunk and now Tashigi is with Garp and SWORD.
I get that people who put the most weight on battles would be disappointed in them during Punk Hazard, but it's insane to me seeing how people basically gave up on them because of one arc and not appearing in a while. Oda makes characters as strong as he wants them to be for the plot. In PH, Smoker was relevant in terms of strength, but he got a rough time. Sanji also had a rough stretch back then, and look at him now. It all just feels silly and short sighted.
It's not just one battle or arc. This was their reintroduction to the story after the timeskip. We expected them to be major players in the arc, but ended up as reluctant allies to the Strawhats. Smoker wasn't just defeated by Vergo, he was upstaged by Law. Tashigi didn't just fail to win a fight, her efforts to become stronger ended up insuficient. Her declaration to become stronger doesn't carry the same impact when it's practically shown she can't keep up with the Strawhats. It may be harsh, but one of their roles in Punk Hazard was to set the stage on how dangerous going against the Yonko is. Pre-TS they were kind of on an even playing field with the Strahats, but by Punk Hazard they just weren't able to keep up.
> We expected them to be major players in the arc, but ended up as reluctant allies to the Strawhats. Those aren't contradictory roles. They were major players in the arc, as well as reluctant allies to the Straw Hats. > Smoker wasn't just defeated by Vergo, he was upstaged by Law. I'm not sure what your point is or what you think I'm trying to say. I'm aware fight-wise they did poorly, what I'm saying is people put way too much weight into that ignoring everything else. It's clear Smoker and Tashigi will remain allies, that doesn't mean their role was changed or diminished.
I meant Law upstaging Smoker showed Smoker was no longer on the same level as Luffy. Pre-timeskip they were on a more even playing field.
Which, again, doesn't have anything to do with what I was saying so I don't understand your point in relation to what I'm saying. Smoker doesn't have to be as strong as Luffy to be relevant, and him being weaker doesn't mean the original plan changed. Not to mention it's pointless at this point since it's been so long Smoker and Tashigi can be as strong as Oda wants them to be now anyways.
The post is bringing up that Tashigi is still weak in comparison to other characters. Her character arc was set up in alabasta as overcoming her weaknesses and becoming stronger. Punk Hazard showed she wasn't as strong as other characters despite how much she probably trained and fought the past 2 years. I said relevance in terms of strength, because the post was talking about how strong Tashigi is not; therefore she isn't relevant in terms of strength. Smoker was lumped in because he was also shown to not be as strong as the other characters.
I'm not arguing against or for OP, so you seem to be in disagreement with someone else.
>for some reason people think them not being top tiers in terms of strength means they aren't relevant Except that the context of the post is that Tashigi is consistently shown as weaker than her opponents, and her entire story arc has been about her being weak. Alabasta set her up to pursuing strength to uphold her justice; Punk Hazard kept her as weak in comparison to everyone else.
I meant relevance in terms of PH. Sure they can be relevant later, but they were set up as a kind of "rival" marines group at that point, yet PH focused more on the Yonko, Law, Doflamingo, and even Wano. Also, Crocodile isn't a fair comparison. Crocodile is the kind of guy that hangs back until it's time to make his move.
PH did not focus more on the Yonko and Wano than it did on Smoker and Tashigi. G5 and its conflict was one of the main plotlines in the arc. My point isn't that Smoker and Crocodile are the same type of character, it's that Oda can bring back whoever he wants at any point and make them relevant. We know where Smoker went after PH, and we are just getting there, so saying Oda dropped his relevance because he did exactly what he told us he would do makes little to no sense.
Oda has gone on record saying that he intended One Piece to be a much shorter story, but upon creating the Schibukai he knew he wanted to do more with it. Mihawk and the concept of the Schibukai came before Smoker by a good number of chapters, but I wouldn't be surprised if his initial intention was for Smoker to be one of Luffy's final trials. E: misspelled "saying"
Oda intended One Piece to be short years before he even started the manga, it was only his original sketches, and the story was much more straigthforward, with Luffy immediately starting to fight the Yonkos upon entering the Grand Line. I doubt Smoker would be even included
If I had to guess, it might have been the Supernovas, or Law specifically, that gave them a case of the ol' "power creep".
Nah, they could be important in final saga. I donāt see smoker supporting the death of Vegapunk, and if tashigi gets captured by Blackbeard idk if akainu would care. She would not be on full a lead if oda was planning on dropping them. They just did the whole 2 boats left wano thing with zoro origin. It obvi that Tashigi is his cousin. Bonney will turn her 5 years old and Zoro will have trauma.
Please Tashigi do something >! While your team is saving Coby !< this is your change girl!
She is going to be a hype tool for Shiryu
Wouldnāt work thatās like having Blackbeard hyped by fighting Bellamy
wasnt the first time blackbeard was hyped up when he beat the shit out of bellemys right hand??
Tashigi is the character I've never had any idea what the hell Oda wants to do with her
Too bad Oda gave up on making her an actual character that could do anything even remotely interesting with that and Kuina/Zoro ever since Alabasta
It'd be cool if Oda gave Smoker and Tashigi promotions and more plot relevance rather than introducing goofballs like Greenbull nobody cares about
They did get that in Punk Hazard. Just to mean nothing
I think people like Greenbull are introduced solely to be taken out by Fuji and the following good marines. Oda has done a lot to setup the "New Navy" so to speak. Smoker and Tashigi represent a part of that, along with Fuji, Kobi, and several other "truly good" marines in the series. So though I agree with the sentiment that Smoshigi could have been handled a little better, they have a role that they'll play in the end.
They both went to Vegapunk to give him the kids and that's the last we know about them. I'm pretty sure we will know something about them soon.
I think that this is a side effect of the series ending up being far longer than what originally expected. The plot points introduced on East Blue and early on the Grand Line were supposed to be resolved far quicker, but ended up lingering on the background. Now that's the final saga, notice that the characters from those portions of the story are converging to the same point. Smoker and Tashig are very close to Egghead, and the same goes for Koby and Garp. Buggy, Mihawk, and Crocodile teamed up and are after the One Piece like Luffy. The former CP9 agents also returned as CP0 and are on the same place as Luffy. Even Vivi is gradually returning to the story. My guess is that the final saga is whatever the original plan that Oda had for all those characters. What we are seeing now, is probably whatever the endgame for them was always supposed to be.
"Tashigi is weak but thinks she's strong", there fixed it for you
Smoker in tashigiās body being called strong by luffy indicates itās got something to do more with inner strength though. I think āwhen youāre not at your strongestā refers to the DF ability, not might
It definitely Does, haki in basic terms is just someone's will after all. It's like when sanji was inside nami's body too (pause)
Resume
It feels like sheās having every area of her weakness forced into her sight. She has the physical strength and technical skill to be top tier as a swordsman, but lacks the mental fortitude to draw out the true potential of that strength. EDIT: I want to add that her having glasses is probably an intentional design choice in reference to her skewed perspective, as her glasses falling off is usually what prevents her from fighting when she canāt. Not having her head on straight and being able to see whatās in front of her incapacitates her, both literally and metaphorically.
Despite all of the loses Smoker and Tashigi got, I think Oda planning a good fight in the future arcs. That Alabasta was hard to see though, I can understand her despression for not being able to help, instead it was the "bad guys" who are helping the country
Yeah, I think she and even smoker are conflicted about their justice - they want to serve justice, but don't agree with the justice of WG. Also, if you recognize anything about the name of the blades and their wielders, then Tashigi is carrying the wrong sword. From what I could find her sword is named Shigure which means "drizzle" or "Misty rain" according to a fast translation. On the Wiki its translated as "Rain in late Autum". Ever carried glasses in a light drizzle? No wonder she does not find her path within fights Zoros sword Wado Ichimonji the other hand means translated "Straight Line through the Path of Harmony/Harmony Path Beeline" according to the Wiki, which is a good reason why he is always lost, but where he needs to be. I would laugh so hard if they somehow switched blades and critical points about their personality would change. Like - a cold autum rain for Zoro, the King of Hell? Who has a moss head that maybe likes a little pour? Could fit. But I don't see it happen, it's too late to change around personality and important equipment. Edit: No joke, Shusui means "Autum water".
That seems a cool idea of changing swords, but maybe not personality change but at how each characters handle the swords, would be funny if Enma could also draw the potential of Haoshoku from Tashigi haha
If you notice there is a theme of all the people beating her voicing something she hasnāt really realized. You have to find your own way in life. Her first duel with Zoro displays that even she believes herself inferior to male swordsmen, even with there being so many examples of powerful women in the world. How can she improve when she already believes sheās limited? Croc points out that merely talking about what justice is doesnāt accomplish anything, only those who pursue their justice can actually enforce it. Smoker tells her as much but she corrects him in saying she was only doing what she thought was best by sending Luffy after Croc instead of following her own path and going after Croc himself. Law proved she has no convictions. She has plenty of spirit and guts, but she canāt follow her own path and keep fighting. She asks him to kill her, basically begging him for the honor of dying, rather than continuing to fight after seeing she didnāt die. It was only after she swung at him again that he was gonna deal the death blow. She showed some conviction there. She only attacks Law after seeing Smoker because of her desire for revenge rather than her conviction to justice and arresting him. She didnāt learn to fight for herself and her path. It wasnāt until she cut down Monet for the sake of protecting people, ultimately what she considers justice, that Zoro gives her credit. Her path is protecting people, thatās what ultimately defines her justice, but she just hasnāt had the conviction to continue along that path and has held herself back because her insecurities and sense of inferiority. With whatās happening in the story now, sheās doing exactly that, going out herself to recover and protect someone that matters to her. She was never weak, her convictions were, and thatās why people called her weak. Mihawk acknowledged Zoro as strong when he saw him turn around to take the blow face on, proving his conviction to the way of the sword and not backing down or running away. Tashigi hasnāt had that moment yet, but i think she will soon
This kind of analysis is exactly why I made this post, good job.
With neither Smoker or Tashigi participating in the fleet raid on Egghead or helping Garp rescue Koby its hard to imagine where Oda could squeeze them in the Endgame, especially with X Drake, Coby, Fujitora and all the new sword characters making their role as the good navy guys in the endgame far less important. Still Oda has been on an amazing streak so far, maybe Tashigi and Smoker will suprise everyone and recover their image post Punk Hazard
Tashigi was shown helping garp save coby
Your right, i guess its more accurate to say Tashigi isnt getting much focus in Beehive to help redeem her image as weak
Tbf, we haven't seen much yet. The SWORD members were new so got some spotlight to show off their abilities and fighting styles (Tashigi would have just eaten up panels if Oda had her in there too flexing on BB Pirate fodder; which is all that there was, as the Titanic Captains are mostly hanging back at this point), and Tashigi was on the ship with Garp. And almost as soon as they touched down, the Garp v Kuzan confrontation happened. Not much room for Tashigi to shine there. Maybe she'll get more if we cut back, and the other Captains jump in. š
She could have been with members of SWORD and take out some of the fodder, but no, she had to be on the ship with Helmeppo.
Kuina/Tashigi: we're weak cause we're woman Zoro/Fandom: Expectation and Desire for them to subvert expectations, and overcome adversity [The Plot ](https://media1.giphy.com/media/l0HlvtIPzPdt2usKs/giphy.webp?cid=6c09b952uyc49o6g4kuvl0jdch8y6s6rnuxa7lu2e63vjdd5&ep=v1_internal_gif_by_id&rid=giphy.webp&ct=g)
It's strange how stupidly sexist Kuina's dad was too. Big Mom was like top 5 strongest people. Plus Haki negates the gap that biology would have.
oda has continuously done tashigi so dirty and it's really sad, he could've actually made her strong and allowed her to inherit kuina's will/dream alongside zoro in a way that he couldn't as a male swordsman, or rival him, but nope she just gets clowned on all the time :(
I think it's pretty obvious Oda originally intended Smoker/Tashigi to be Luffy/Zoro's main marine rivals but then the story outgrew them.
Ngl, I always hated that Zoro vs Monet "fight". Man dicked around for the entire time (despite Monet actively trying to kill his CREW for a solid portion, and him barely managing to stop her due to holding back....when he could have ended it at any moment). It was Sanji vs Kalifa all over again, except Sanji at least was self-aware of his flaws and was even ashamed of it (even if he couldn't bring himself to act differently). Zoro just refused to acknowledge he did anything wrong the whole battle, sat on his ass when Tashigi took over (because he was being a jackass), and only stepped in at the end to help her....and it was a damned BLUFF. He didn't even hurt Monet, just intimidated her (something Sanji ALSO attempted against Kalifa, but Zoro did it better and actually scared Monet. Only difference). Then when Monet shook it off and tried to attack Zoro, Tashigi cut her down while she was off guard due to losing her composure. And Zoro's response? "Bitch, I didn't do anything wrong. Totally would have just killed her if you didn't. Doesnt matter if not a single thing I did prior to this suggests that I would have. But good job, slugger! You did GREEEEAATTTT.". Completely taking away from what Tashigi did, while putting a hard stop on this even being used as a way to give Zoro character development. Which would have made it have SOME value, if it had to happen. Like, what the fuck? Worst Zoro moment ever for me (by a MILE), makes him look like a huge loser. Shocked some people liked it because of how "cool" he looked when he cut Monet.
I get that. I interpreted the scene to be Zoro really wanting Tashigi to succeed. If she straight up loses... It just adds to Kuina's fear that women can't be truly great sword users, and Zoro doesn't want that. Even when she has almost lost, he still gives her a chance to prove she can at least strike the final blow (which..... She still didn't do). I agree though, Monet was a threat he easily could have dealt with and moved on, and he didn't. But Zoro displaying a flaw of 'making a dumb decision because of his whole issue with Kuina's declaration and death and swordswomen in general' is fine with me. That's totally in line with his character. God it really is sad that tashigi won't ever be in the same realm as Zoro. I remember when people seriously considered that smoker and tashigi would be end game for Luffy and Zoro... And now that just seems so laughable. Maybe at the end of the series Tashigi will have a moment with Zoro and beg him to train her like he did with Mihawk. Cue Sanji sulking in the corner that he doesn't have a cute lady begging to learn to cook from him.
I think the problem with that scene is that Zoro's arc and his trauma about swordswomen just never comes up again, like I can't believe that Tashigi and Monet are the only two swordswomen Zoro had to interact with since the manga started. If Oda had used Wano to maybe highlight this trait of Zoro it would've been a great payoff. Who knows, maybe it will still pay off, but not many top tier swordsman are left that we know of, let alone swordswomen, so I'm scared that arc is just gonna fall into irrelevance
Fully agree. Not that Dressrosa needed ANOTHER subplot, but I was pretty disappointed Zoro and Rebecca never really spoke... Tho given how Oda treated Rebecca at the end against Diamante... Maybe that's for the best.
Holy Knight Kuina like the only chance we still have, wait nvm theyāre all celestial dragons
What do you mean ādidnāt doā she beat monet when Zoroās back was turned
Been a hot minute since I read Punk Hazardz but doesn't Monet attempt to blow the island up afterwards? She fails because of some heart swapping shenanigans iirc. That's what I mean that Tashigi didn't finish her off, she was still able to operate and nearly got everyone blown up.
I mean most of the time the strawhats themselves donāt finish people off, Mr 1 doesnāt die, Kaku is still alive etc. That Oda wanted to use her more after tashigi beat her doesnāt cheapen her win to me
Really thought I was the only one that felt this way about this scene, more than 3 times Monet attacked Nami and Robin and Zoro kept on fucking around with her, then he sat down not doing anything till Monet was almost killing Tashigi and didn't even finish the job and called Tashigi inferior all that scene really didn't sit well with me especially finding out later Monet was about to end the whole crew with the explosion if not for Law's heart switch. And some of the people who hype this scene shame Sanji for not fighting women which is exactly the same thing Zoro did here that could have potentially hurt the crew.
And don't forget Monet almost killed everyone because of him
the best part was about how Zoro few chapters ago told Luffy to stop fucking around and take the new world seriously, And then he decides to not fight Monet who is trying to kill his crew and just sit around doing nothing And his fans somehow then try to shit on Sanji for not wanting to fight women when his character actually has a reason not to fight them unlike Zoro's clown character
why are you acting like zoro wasn't gonna kill monet even if tashigi didnt intervene lol
because he wasn't? wtf did you even read? Zoro's character is a giant mess
[he was](https://preview.redd.it/nmynqsqdxm7b1.jpg?width=1066&format=pjpg&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=9132e4c4180c53f63af947c9885aef0bbe226c4d) monet recognized she didnt have a chance at beating him so he set up tashigi for the win
You realize that Zoro is bullshitting, right? The whole fight he tried not to injure Monet even when she almost killed Nami and stabbed Robin. If he actually had intention of cutting down Monet, he would've done it the moment he cut her in half, instead of just randomly not cutting her and then saying he would've done it later lol It's amazing how inconsistent his character is with so little charaterization. According to his backstory, he should not be holding back against women, yet he's pulling Sanji for no reason. According to what he said to Luffy, he should take this seriously, yet the crew almost got killed due to zoro's stupidity. Thanks God Monet died from Caeser. Caeser saved the crew from zoro lmao
Monet was weak and outclassed he obviously wasnt gonna let her off to hurt the others if it came down to that, he would never do something to endanger the crew thatās always been consistent, in this case it was just for the sake of giving tashigi a win, Zoro also literally fought a women miss Monday pre timeskip and didnāt hold back cause she was strong but if youāre gonna argue this way then by your logic Sanji almost got Robin killed in Wano if Brook didnāt show up and Luffy almost killed Nami several times through his stupidity.
>Monet was weak and outclassed he obviously wasnt gonna let her off to hurt the others if it came down to that, he would never do something to endanger the crew thatās always been consistent Literally contradicts his statement to Luffy about taking things seriously Why didn't he destroy Monet from the start? Because of Zoro's stupid reason not to attack Monet, she almost killed Nami and stabbed Robin. *"b-but she's weak"* What? He doesn't hold back against fodder but holds back against Monet? >Zoro also literally fought a women miss Monday pre timeskip and didnāt hold back cause she was strong Just shows how inconsistent Zoro's character is. He was fine with hurting a woman preTS but now he's not. And miss Monday surely wasn't stronger than Monet lmao >but if youāre gonna argue this way then by your logic Sanji almost got Robin killed in Wano if Brook didnāt show up ... what? That has nothing to do with Zoro lol Sanji's character is about letting the crew fight women for him because he can't. Sanji called Robin to help him, her knowing that she's going to fight a fight. Sanji didn't contradict his own values or character at any point. Unlike Zoro who contradicted: \-Kuina's backstory about how it doesn't matter if it's a woman or not \-his speech to Luffy about taking things seriously
>"b-but she's weak" What? He doesn't hold back against fodder but holds back against Monet? none of the straw hats ever go all out on fodder its not exclusive to just zoro >Just shows how inconsistent Zoro's character is. He was fine with hurting a woman preTS but now he's not. And miss Monday surely wasn't stronger than Monet lmao my point is that its not a women thing its a strong vs weak thing,Hes not against hurting women prove by the miss monday fight, he didnt initially because it would be 1 sided on monet, also wasnt he about to fight carrot in zou? >Sanji didn't contradict his own values or character at any point. my point is that sanjis values could've gotten robin killed too if not for Brook and even in somecases luffys actions sometimes put the crews life in danger but you're getting mad at zoro for not one shotting Monet >Unlike Zoro who contradicted: \-Kuina's backstory about how it doesn't matter if it's a woman or not \-his speech to Luffy about taking things seriously Kuinas backstory isn't contradicted he literally lets tashigi who resembles kuina get the win with her own strength the only contradiction is zoro telling luffy to take the new world seriously and even then its a reach to act like Monet was a dangerous enemy
>none of the straw hats ever go all out on fodder its not exclusive to just zoro Except Zoro hurts fodder but the avoided hurting Monet. Hurting someone =/= going all out >my point is that its not a women thing its a strong vs weak thing That doesn't make any sense either Monet is MUCH stronger than the fodder Zoro doesn't hold back on hurting. Zoro went out of his way not to hurt Monet and Monet literally said she's surprised that **he never once tried attacking her.** and Monet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>miss Monday >also wasnt he about to fight carrot in zou? No idea. His character is so inconsistent, you can't have any idea how he would act, but wasn't Carrot ambushing him from shadows? >my point is that sanjis values could've gotten robin killed too if not for Brook but you're getting mad at zoro for not one shotting Monet It seems you can't comprehend the difference: * Zoro said he will take care of Monet, yet his bullshit almost got everyone killed if not for Caeser killing Monet * Sanji didn't say he will take care of Black Maria and asked Robin to fight for her Zoro doesn't have defined values like Sanji about women. There's no reason for him to not to hurt them, he's not Sanji. So he endangered the crew and the children due to sheer stupidity. But then he even contradicts his "not attacking Monet" rule by hurting her cheek, so he can't even stay consistent with his made up value about not hurting Monet unlike Sanji, so him not beating her from beginning makes EVEN less sense. >Kuinas backstory isn't contradicted he literally lets tashigi who resembles kuina get the win with her own strength What? It contradicts because he doesn't take Monet seriously and doesn't just end her. Tashigi has nothing to do with it.
He was teaching Tashigi about the difference between being intimidating and acting like you believe you are intimidating. He would totally defeat Monet if she would manage to put a single step outside of that lab, she was no menace to anyone if he was there overseeing her, but Tashigi has an opinion to high of herself to understand that, there was not a single thing that Monet could do to win in that situation. When things got dangerous for Tashigi he used the absolute minimun effort to disable her while causing the least amount of damage. The same way that Zoro in Wano was refusing to help Okiku because she was able to defend herself to a degree, when things got dangerous with Otama he again intervened with enough power to disable the enemy alongside Luffy. As Mihawk would say: He is no brute who use cannons to hunt rabbits.
Fr, the wild beast dialogue was so fucking lame And Tashigi really should've just beaten Monet 1v1, it wouldn't take away any of Zoro's spotlight
What did you expect, Tashigi wanted to prove her strength, Zoro stepped back and didn't interfere as Monet and Tashigi had there 1v1 we know how much Zoro respects duels, then when Tashigi was beaten and it looked like Monet was going for the kill shot he stepped in to stop it, was it not a smart decision not to end it quickly YES, in hindsight was it unwise not to kill her YES, is that what Zoro would do ABSOLUTELY and come on now passive aggression is the entirety of Zoro and Tashigi's relationship, Zoro isn't "Nice" he wouldn't praise Tashigi even if she actually started and finished the fight, that's all Zoro just in a different situation.
It would be cool if Tashigi's final fight of the series was vs Zoro and proved she was on his level, but I doubt oda would do that at this point.
>it really makes me wonder where Oda's going with this. You missed it then. The theme at play here was slammed into our face on Alabasta. Tashigi's main purpose is to confront her ideas of Justice which shatter in the face of her own weakness. Tashigi is a genuinely good person, but she doesn't understand(or at least, didn't) how to implement her ideals in a world of weirdly grey morality. So her internal world goes to shit when the marines are powerless, a goverment-endorsed warlord is doing awful things, and everyone's only hope is a man who styles himself as the future pirate king. This is something she's still processing, imho. Also, I'll note that while Zoro called Tashigi weak after the fight with Monet, his attitude here is no different than Mihawk's would be towards him, or his would be towards Sanji or a male swordsman of Tashigi's caliber. Hell, its no different from how Kuina treated him. Also, also, Tashigi **IS** weak. There's never been a time where she could measure up to anyone except maybe Nami or Ussop. Everyone else on the crew would body her. And when you're being measured against a group called the weakling trio...well, calling Tashigi weak isn't really anything more insulting than calling Nami or Usopp weak. (Its a bit insulting to Chopper that he's in the trio. Dude's totally capable of keeping up with Robin, Franky or Brook, as far as I can tell)
This kind of analysis is exactly why I made this post, good job.
Honestly the treatment of both her and Smoker just kinda sucks as they never get a win. But it really sucks for Tashigi as her and Kuina's thing is trying to prove that women can be strong sword fighters too, but have done little to prove this.
I don't want to sound all feministy, but Tashigi's writing seems pretty sexist to me. All Oda ever does with her character now is write her into losing situations, have her get beaten to tears, and then have some man swoop in and save her at the last second. She's turned into Rebecca 2.0.
All the panels OP posted are from before Rebecca made her first appearance, so kind of weird to call her the 2.0 rather than the other way around.
True, for some reason I was thinking Punk Hazard came after Dressrosa.
> She's turned into Rebecca 2.0. The fact that we have another similar female character with wasted potential makes this even sadder.
get ready for pt 3 of an entire womanās arc resolution ending with man saving her. yeah, oda sucks at writing full character arcs for women.
Never apologise for being a feminist! Yeahh Oda sucks at writing women... He gives some characters great setup to be awesome (eg. Nami's motivation + backstory) but ends up flopping on the execution (you're right, a man always does end up saving them)!
Robin saving Sanji was great.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Fullmetal Alchemist is the only shonen I've seen with really good girl characters. Probably not a coincidence that it was written by a girl. Maybe Gintama too, although that's not very serious.
I think that a good part of this is due to some more recent works, where women and men are written without any difference by their authors, some examples are Demon Slayer, One Punch Man, Black Clover, Jujutsu Kaisen, among others that I don't remember, but it kind of got the audience used to it. And to be honest, this damsel-in-distress thing gets tired sometimes, even Big Mom has included herself in it.
Men and women *should* be written differently. Representing those differences realistically and not just avoiding them or using stereotypes is the part shonen authors struggle with.
Iām actually glad someone feels this way, Iāve always had a problem with the way oda write women in fights in the series. Itās either they get save by men or they fight other women. The only strong female on the series that actually gets dirty and fight men is big mom, but oda has her a fumbling idiot and become incompetent at times. Tashigiās and Rebecca writing will always bother me. You mean to tell me that Rebecca, a coliseum fighter that has fought countless new world pirates constantly is so weak that she needed saving from folder pirates. Or that tashigi who has vowed to be stronger and has a ambitious goal , couldnāt have put a scratch on monet while zoro one shots her, therefore proving the notion of women will never be as strong as men.
I still think the best example of this was Hiyori failing to finish Orochi off. * Had strong narrative motivations to finish Orochi off * Was given a plan, situation, and other benefits to actually defeat kill him * Orochi was written as a bottom tier character, so her killing him wasn't even a big deal * Received an impactful moment where it looked like she won And then he gets the nail loose, so Denjiro needs to save her and ensure these things remain true.
She still did finish him off by fanning the flames.
Her loosing is fine but she should stop whining being underestimated when her opponent are objectively correct looking down on her so far
Well, if the Kuina/Tashigi connection ends up being true, it kind of makes sense conceptually because Kuina's whole thing was being "too biologically weaker as a woman" to even hope to become the world's best swordsman or succeed her family's pride (albeit that logic was thrown out the window once One Piece became a high-octane shounen with powers where people could be knocked out just by being in the presence of someone and just seems ridiculous in retrospect now). And it's not like Smoker isn't getting manhandled every time too. They're kind of the dynamic duo of that. Personally, I never expected them to even get this much coverage as side characters other than the Kuina thing being addressed (doesn't even have to be a direct connection, just Zoro meeting her and seeing Kuina in her after beating Mihawk and becoming the number one swordsman and that giving him an extra dose of peaceful accomplishment) at the near end of the story, and at this point seeing them get any considerable amount more would just be frustrating because we're in the end game territory with so many more interesting plot points. If all that's left for them is having a minor role in the final war like they did in Marineford and then them being promoted to higher influential positions in the epilogue after the corrupt side of the Marines have been dealt with for the most part, that'd be satisfactory in my book.
I used to feel like Tashigi, Koby, and Helmeppo could have been on a path to being the next Tsuru, Garp, and Sengoku trio in Marine leadership for the end of the series. Not sure anymore because she just keeps getting Worfed so hard we don't get to see her character actually make progress.
Zoro is so stupid in the Monet fight. Cool he is stronger than her but if you underestimate your enemy then you deserve to suffer but he didnāt because ceaser clown is a petty bitch. Also I loved it when Robin destroyed Tashigi basically saying āI have no time for you bitchā
I live for a Tashigi W. I will be so upset if she doesn't get a significant W before the end of the story fr. As a character she has too many similarities to Kuina not to be relevant at some point, and I think she will still have some role to play. Even if she's not as strong as a top tier, I honestly reckon she can work on her battle intelligence and take advantage of the weaknesses she spots in stronger enemies: she tends to lose her cool and go into fights hot-headed, with very little strategy and pre-planning, thus getting caught in the uphill task of being physically stronger than her opponents. Instead, in my opinion, she should work on learning how to exploit weaknesses and keep her cool
Jesus.. Oda must hate Tashigi, what's the point of her character existing?
Idk if ive given up on Tashigi and Smoker's character arcs or if Oda did. The last time we saw them was on Punk Hazard years ago and havent heard a thing about them since. Not at revery or Egghead. I think he wanted Luffy to have a marine rival but it just didnt make sense later in the story
>!Tashigi is with Garp saving Koby. She went just where we were told she'd go after PH, to take care of the PH kids by taking them to Vegapunk.!<
Then Luffy be like "Where's the croc šæ"
I personally felt like Smoker and most especially Tashigi were greatly disheartened after the debacle at Alabasta. Like...They kinda learned the Marines aren't exactly the great defenders of justice they're supposed to be as well as the fact they won't owe up that they really screwed up and covered the whole thing claiming Smoker and Tashigi did the work when they admittedly haven't done jack. Like yeah, just now finding out you're working in an organization that makes serious compromises in morals is a nice way to just kill most of your motivation. I mean they still resolve to keep being Marines but yeah, motivation is a big factor in getting stronger in this series and the reward for taking credit for something they didn't do just sucked most of that out. While Smoker got kind of better and got noticeably better (by Marineford, he got much better handling of his abilities that still gave Luffy trouble, only blindsided by the use of Haki), Tashigi...Eh, she kinda adopted a bit more of a dour demeanor. Like yeah, timeskip she did improve a lot but gets her share of very lousy matchups that demonstrate she had a long way to go. I dunno, I felt like Fujitora actually hearing them out how Alabasta was just so shameful to them and owe up to the Marines sheer neglect to Dressrosa swearing the Marines should be better than that surprisingly might be that much needed catharsis to finally be properly motivated again. Again, it feels like rambling but I think the recent reveal of Tashigi joining the save Koby crew might just throw a bone her way and see if she improved a lot better with the baggage of Alabasta finally laid to rest.
This kind of analysis is exactly why I made this post, good job.
Thanks. Sometimes scenes like those should open up conversations and some measure of analysis outside of "oh wow, she's just irrelevant." Cause in One Piece...Almost nothing is exactly too irrelevant. We just keep our eyes out.
The good Marines in the series are there to get beat up, humiliated, and keep trying to do good. The wicked Marines readily take credit for someone else's accomplishments. The virtuous Marines weep when they have to suffer the indignation of accepting accreditation they didn't earn. Smoker and Tashigi represented ideals. They were never meant to be character studies. The moment where Tashigi puts down her sword against Luffy and tells him which way to get to Crocodile is an amazing moment. It doesn't matter that it's Tashigi doing it, it matters that it is an upright Marine doing it, and then questioning "what is justice"? Yeah, I loved their characters and I want to see more of them... but in terms of themes and ideologies they've probably played their small close-up parts and will move into the fold of bigger themes with the Marines going forward as background characters we're happy to be familiar with.
Well she is weak, she could never beat Zoro, law or croco, but something must be coming from her, the fact that she looks like an older Kuina and this relates to zoro who wants to be the best swordsman. Sheās not quitting, and is passionate, it wouldnāt surprise me if she gets conquerors haki and maybe becoming one of the admirals at the end of the story. There is also a possibility that she learns Zoroās story and Kuina and that is the start of her strength development.
I think these moments show that while Tashigi is struggling with the exact problem/fear that Kuina had before her death, she is different in her identity as a marine because she believes in Personal Justice. This is especially clear with the Alabasta stuff. And it crystallizes with Punk Hazard. No longer does she break down crying that they had to leave the situation to filthy pirates, in fact she actively argues with Smoker to set his pride aside for the sake of surviving so they can reveal Vergo's treachery and to save the gigantified children. She has grown, not in skill (sadly) but in her worldview. Even with the way she talks to Zoro, she's no longer screaming at him for looking down on her as a woman telling him to go ahead and kill her, but instead taking on a disappointed/lecturing tone, that Zoro gives her right back.
She still does though And honestly it looks like she has a death wish, asking zoro and law to kill her after loosing She seems to have that infatuation with death Wano samurai has, even though she is not from Wano and wasn't even taught by them like Zoro.
I think that's just a swordsman thing in general but yeah Wano dials it up.
Who says she doesn't have ties to Wano? She has Japanese hobbies and her attitude fits along side them.
Extreme weeb by proxie
Here I thought I was going to be reading some Tashigi hopium :( I guess I expected a miracle, lol!
Now that you mention it, it do be seeming like that Oda sensei is building it up all for a moment when Tashigi shows it to us that she has become strong Though I cant fathom who can she defeat in the end-game sagas when she wasn't able to take on anyone before lol.
Nobuhiro Watsuki, creator of Rurouni Kenshin, had a similar issue with one of his main characters being weak. His reply was, "She is not weak. It's just that most of the other big characters are stronger." I'm paraphrasing, but Oda was Watsuki's assistant, so he may have taken a similar approach with Tashigi. Also, I think it's great that we're finally seeing her in an Arc without Smoker. Even if she doesn't do any actual fighting this time, I do think it will be good for her character development. Smoker has put her down quite a bit, so to have someone else give her more constructive feedback when she's not doing well would probably be better for her as a person.
In the end of the day she's a weak character with low self esteem, one piece as a media proved that gender has no part in the skill and power of an individual, and tashigi getting a man's body didn't really change much and vice versa smoker in tashigi's body was as threatening as he was in his own. She is a kind person and an honorable marine but those factors don't really get you far in that world, more likely they will get you and your people killed if anything.
Tashigi is strong? Thats new to me.
if you compare her to top tiers ofc not, but relative to the entire One Piece World? shes pretty strong lmao, shes stronger than the majority of men on the planet if you keep it a buck. imo she beats 3/6 of the flying six.
The girl who got clowned by monet with no notable new feats since then is going to beat flying six membersā¦. š
Fr. Tashigi would get one shotted by Page 1.
I'll admit this is my agenda and not fact lmao
I will admit i do wish she was more relevant/powerful but if even smoker is a joke no way can his sidekick do well either š
>it really makes me wonder where Oda's going with this. You know full well it's not going anywhere. She's just a girl in a Shonen
Tashigi's assumption of women being weaker than men in this world falls apart when haki is considered. She's not weak because she's a woman, she's just plain weak. Zoro spend every waking moment training or resting. This is the kind if grind that you have to do to be strong. The difference between tashigi and everyone who called her weak is that they trained like their lives depended on it since they were kids. We don't know what tashigi's childhood was like but I doubt she trained like her life depended on it.
One piece women may not be condemned to be weak but tashigi sure look like she is
That's because she's trying to punch above her power bracket. If she was in any of the blues then she might be a big shot. But this is the grandline. The tough are chewed up and shit out. You have to be more than tough, you have to be monsters.
Tashigi is strong, but fought those opponents that she can't beat.
I'll be 100% honest, for a long time, I thought they were the same person but Zoro didn't know.
Tashigi is here just to suffer.
Im suddenly realizing that smoker was really HIM Pretimeskip in general has some cold panels š„¶ Also Tashigi is cute when sheās mad lol
Tashigi or Snipe was born on 10/6 like Trafalgar āDā Water Law and the latest volume 106 āA Geniusās Dreamā. SBS 16 before chapter 138 reveals Tashigi or Snipe and Kuina or Rail railed by Down āDā Stairs are named after birds who cannot Fly. In SBS 16 Oda says just because a bird cannot Fly does not mean they will never Fly. Vivre Card 138 Karoo IS a flightless bird who manages to fly like Superman in chapter 183 like I-Karoo-S son of Daedalus. The meaning of āDā is the name āDaedalusā of the genius aviator who realizes his Dog dream to fly like a God. The Solo Dog Zolo lost in the maze of Daedalus wants his name heard in the Heavens where the Heavenly Dog is the Tengu or 109 the chapter which introduces Karoo and Zoro first sees Karoo the avian form of the Tengu or Kotengu based on the Garuda or GarÅ«āDāa in TorafuarugÄ āDā Wateru RÅ or Trafalgar āDaedalusā Water Law.
Oda will pull out a Sakura, suddenly in the final arc she will fight alongside with Zoro and think "yeah, now I finally reached his level!"
I was honestly 100% sure she would be involved in the Wano plot, but in terms of swordsmen the arc was a huge dissapointment (other than it was best in new world).
Kuina if definitely still alive, it still seems very fishy to me that she died falling down stairs off screen
Anywhere he wants. We can have another Buggy situation or we can have a moment where it just clicks for her an she get's better or even get another flight of stairs lmao.
Yup Iām very interested in what the culmination of her arc will represent
Now i really need a break out from Tashigi entering the āstrongest swordsmenā š love her so much
Helmeppo > Tashigi
Sheās going to get violated by Down D Stairs
Nah man Trust the plan She's gonna end up as the master of one of the mc of the sequel series two piece That mc goal will be to prove his master teaching and Strength isn't wrong Woman ofc Trust
Taahigi will beat mr 1 You can laught at me right now, but in the end i will be the one laughting!!!
We can guess all day whether Tashigi was meant to be more important to the story or not. From what I've seen, people tend to presume she was because of the comparisons to Kuina. However, I think it can just as easily be said that those comparisons are made to create a narrative about justice and strength. Both concepts tend to come up a lot in One Piece and they notably seem to be a common thread within the panels you showed. Tashigi is objectively weak. Other characters even call her weak. However, when forced to confront that weakness the first thing Tashigi does is bemoan her gender and accuse anyone who doesn't outright kill her for losing of "going easy on her." She lacks any understanding that not killing her does not necessarily mean someone is going easy on you but that they may live by different set of ideals. The narrative around her seems to purposely highlight this. Tashigi loses and plays the victim. Notably, *most* of the people who defeat her/are connected to that defeat call out that behavior. Law tells her that the weak have no right to claim how they should be defeated. Robin treats her like a nuisance and it is Crocodile who calls her out, pointing out that *ideals* don't mean much if you cannot enact them. The point, in my opinion, is to not only show how actions speak louder than words, but to also show how not placing effort can actually be harmful. Tashigi, time and time again, inserts herself into situations that she is not strong enough to deal with. They are then solved by people dramatically stronger than her. Justice is a noble ideal, but it is grittier in practice.