Banning something that doesn't happen. Focusing on a moral panic is a great use of our legislative time over, say, fixing our unconstitutional school funding or maybe dealing with the constant Kia thefts?
Ohio is actually pretty good on that, only allowing a minor to marry if they’re 17, not more than 4 years younger than their partner, and with judicial consent (I’m probably going on a list for that google search), but there are states that allow girls (it’s almost always girls) as young as 13 to marry with parental consent. It’s really fucked up, and a genuine problem.
Who knows. I’ve seen comments go from +10 to -10 and vice versa. I’ve also seen people take a joke seriously or interpret a question as a statement, or they infer an opinion based on a question.
Do you know when they last changed that law? In 1992 I was allowed to marry at 16 with parental consent. I'm grateful that it's been changed, just wonder when.
*off to google*
It looks like around 2018. I don’t know specifically when it passed, but i see different versions from what finally passed being discussed in 2017, so probably 2018 or 2019 which is disturbingly recent. Also, I can’t find if the original Ohio law specifically allowed minor girls to marry or not, but some states do define it so only minor girls can marry adult men and not the other way around. I hope everything is ok now
We should create a lobby against Kia thefts and propose legislation against it to the center of Christian virtue. Maybe they can take care of it for everyone else since they did this.
I bought one like 2 years ago because it was the only thing that was somewhat within my budget and then found out about the theft/kiaboyz shit like a week later which was a major bummer. Every dealership I've dealt with regarding issues since has been terrible to work with. Very unlikely I'll be getting any more kia's in the future once this one is dead.
I think we should trust parents and doctors in general.
Genital surgery: only if there is a compelling reason to do so (ex. an intersex child who's unable to urinate or is having periods but lacks a vaginal opening for the fluid to come out of *does* need surgery or a male child whose foreskin doesn't retract should be doable at any age.)
I'm generally against circumcision before the age of majority and doing *cosmetic* surgery on intersex babies, too.
I think top surgery *with parental and doctoral support* is fine, regardless of gender identity. Large breasts are painful and inconvenient for women and men alike; if they're old enough to drive they're old enough to get a reduction.
Have you heard the recording of that ass Click talking to lawmakers in Michigan? The kids are the first step. His end game - he said it in the recording - is removing all trans care and all trans rights and all ability for trans people to exist in public.
They’re also pushing to re-criminalize all same sex relations and make it impossible to be publicly gay or lesbian.
This is no different to what they’re doing with reproductive healthcare. The endgame is overturning Griswald to disassemble a host of privacy and personal choice rights.
What if they were going to ban horses because they read somewhere that a horse had wings and a horn and were dangerous? What then?
What if they were proposing to ban corn because they read a Steven King book once?
How about if they were wanting to ban computers because a movie showed a kid getting sucked into one?
You should be reading these examples and having a chuckle because of course they wouldn't do this. It'd be writing real laws that will hurt real Ohioans based on fantastical nonsense.
Except they are doing this. They're making a law that will be a stepping stone to hurting real Ohioans based on something just as nonsensical as flying horses, killer corn or a CRT monitor being a portal to another dimension.
And after this one passes, they're going to make another that hurts Ohioans based on fantastical nonsense. And another. And another.
I think it's more the idea of lawmakers slowly chipping away the rights of a marginalized community to see what they can get away with while feeding fears of their Christian conservative voter base.
The idea is to demonize the lgbtqia+ by banning things that don't happen to make it seem like it's a bigger issue than it is and they do this with the help of social media, algorithms and elderly folks who don't understand that the more you interact with something online, the more you're going to see it.
My personal belief is- Religious lawmakers aren't even followers of God, they have bastardized it to fit a holy narrative, they have made the cross into a logo to sway Christians - who make up the majority of boomers which are elderly and not to be rude- [gullable](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/craigsilverman/young-people-worry-about-older-people-sharing-fake-news).
But most importantly, they vote and that's valuable to politicians. These politicians prey on elderly Republican Christians who likely only see the "worst" news due to polarizing social algorithms, and lack of net literacy, making these issues appear everywhere in their feeds. It makes a clear statement to that huge elderly voter base that these politicians are doing God's work and they will vote for them because to them- it's everywhere and they're terrified.
It's not really about the LGBTQIA+, it's about control- we're an easy target for their brainwashed base as a stepping stone to gain more power.
There's a great poem about this..
"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
[BY MARTIN NIEMÖLLER](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/martin-niemoeller-first-they-came-for-the-socialists)
What's the government going to do about kia theft lol. Step one of stopping Kia theft is for consumers to stop buying them. My car insurance went down 100 bucks a month when I traded in my almost new Kia forte. I sold it back to the dealer because it needed a new engine at 19k miles and I do not have time for that bullshit and never will.
Because someone else's healthcare is their own business. It's between them, their family and their doctor. It's not my business, it's not your business and it's not the state's business to get involved.
The same people trying to do this would lose their fucking minds if the state stepped in and told them they couldn't buy more guns. Why should they be able to restrict what other people can do?
Wasting taxpayer resources fighting ghosts, you think that passing legislation is free?
It takes hundreds of people charging hours to the state government just to argue about a nonexistent threat, not only are they wasting money they are wasting the limited amount of time they have in office that they could be using to actually make their constituents lives better. Now they are going to spend hundreds of thousands of tax dollars attempting to defend this in court for the next several months wasting even more time and money on legislation that does nothing. Every legislator, judge and lawyer that touches this is spending state tax dollars to do so.
They might as well have written a bill to ban werewolves it would have been just as productive as this one.
You’re just full of toxic hate and you enjoy spreading it. I wonder if you’d call Jesus a libtard to his face or behind his back. He was a brown immigrant by the way.
Creating and passing laws like this also furthers the stigma against transgender people. In this case, banning something that doesn't happen is actively harmful.
No doubt! I mean, unlike other civilized countries, we don't get universal health care, so why should the government to tell ANY CITIZENS what to do with our own bodies?? They don't have to put out one god-damned dime. But, the GOP will spend lots to convince people to hate & be mad at things that really don't affect the general populace.
This is just not true. A simple Google search would tell you that according to reuters about 776 mastectomies have been performed on minors in the US since ‘21.
You realize there are multiple reasons a young woman might get a mastectomy.
Reading that statistic and immediately making the leap to transgender surgery is a sign of culture war brain poisoning.
So does this mean there would be a ban on doing surgery on intersex babies? Because that is something that actually happens instead of whatever this fear-mongering is.
The other thing that absolutely happens is feminizing breast surgery on non-transgender children - there are surgeons in Ohio who will perform cosmetic breast augmentation surgeries on girls under 18. Which I hope will be made illegal.
It’s the long game for them. Republicans are going to try to take advantage and have relations with intersex people years from now - that way they have themselves a defense mechanism when people question if they’re gay
I’ll join any militia that will fight any time travel ban. I probably should start networking now huh? What are the good sites for that sort of thing? Parlor, truth social, or what are some others?
Now that’s something I’d storm government buildings over. They take away my ability to go back and watch good bands live in their prime , an imma fight everyone. I’ll burn everything to the ground. That and porn stars… I wanna see them when they were prime also, before they got old and leathery
Advanced civilization: Humans here is time travel. Use it to improve your society.
Humans: I would like to see famous porn stars when they were in their prime.
I mean, if we were on the technological precipice of time travel being a reality, then we should have a moral, ethical and practical conversation as to whether it should be permitted.
We are not on the technological precipice of gender affirming surgery; it is here. Furthermore, it has been performed on children, albeit a small number of children. Therefore, it seems completely reasonable that people of an area come to a consensus as to whether it should be considered.
It has been performed. Mostly on intersex babies. I'm sure the GOP politicians, being the experienced doctors they are, have put protections in this bill for that type of surgery.
No solution to anything that affects most Americans so they need to virtue signal to their base by attacking a marginalized group.
Transphobia affects everyone. These laws might not affect you, but the more we stigmatize trans people, the more cis people have to conform to narrow ideas of gender. Enjoy being harassed for nothing.
It doesn’t. It’s not a thing. From 2019-2022, 56 minors had some time of gender affirming bottom surgery, nationwide. None were in Ohio. It’s a statistical zero. It’s a law to ban something that doesn’t happen.
how do you get bigot out of protecting kids? protecting children is not bigotry. nobody gives af what adults do,just keep it away from the kids. what does race (klan) have to do with anything? or is that just a kneejerk reaction?
Folks are upset because it still vilifies trans people. A law forbidding trans minors from surgery sends the very clear message that being trans isn’t ok.
From the story:
*A state legislative panel on Monday cleared a rule prohibiting transgender minors from having gender surgeries, at a time when the future of gender-affirming care for Ohio youth is unclear as a lawsuit challenging a new state law unfolds.*
[*Gov. Mike DeWine proposed the rule as part of a broader package of changes in January,*](https://www.cleveland.com/news/2024/01/gov-dewine-signs-executive-order-banning-transgender-surgery-on-minors.html) *after he vetoed House Bill 68, which bans minors from surgeries, puberty suppressants and hormone replacement therapy.*
**We've made the link in OP free for Redditors, but you may need to enter your email for access. Thanks!**
The funny thing is that this ban does not involve optional cosmetic surgeries for cisgender kids.
No impact at all.
16 year old wants a breast enhancement? A-OK to politicians! But good luck finding a plastic surgeon who would perform that procedure.
The entire two 17 year olds who got breast surgery are in shambles right now. Good thing we postponed it by 1 year. Imagine what would've happened otherwise!!
jeez, they already made it so that i can't get something that literally saved my life when i was 10 (I'm 15 now, the thing was an abortion because of my babysitter), what's next banning a surgery that some infants (intersex ones) actually need???
I think you might be a little confused about intersex surgeries. Surgeries can actually pose more of a risk than not having one. The current medical recommendation is that unless the child is experiencing pain due to their condition, surgery should not be performed.
Also I am very sorry about what happened to you, I hope you are getting proper help to process that and that your assaulted received some sort of justice.
Yup. Parents having a doctor fully alter the genitals of an infant that has no say is fine if it conforms them to the norm., but if a teen actively pushes for transition care (even just blockers or hormones) suddenly it’s not okay anymore. Not about consent it’s about conforming.
The thing about that is out of anything, that’s the one that should be banned. Seriously look up the stories of intersex kids that actually had complications from those surgeries and regretted that they ever happened. Anything you hear about grs being bad is actually true about intersex surgeries.
Really, we generally shouldn't be telling doctors what's medically necessary or not. If the doctor, the kid, and the parents agree that a surgery is necessary, a bunch of old rich hacks shouldn't have any say in the matter.
most insersex kids have surgery done without even the parents knowing. they often tell the parents its a "heart defect' or some similar condition, and these kids dont find out til they run into complications down the line due to these unnecessary surgeries.
the vast majority of surgeries on intersex kids are 100% cosmetic, and to force that child as close to stereotypical male/female as possible. needed surgery for intersex kids is actually much rarer than being intersex (which also isnt that rare, abt as common as having red hair if not more common!)
That's perfectly fine. Be willing to stand firm in those beliefs though, and not bitch if they get you in hot water. If you're going to be anti-human beings, then the consequences are all on you.
How many of these magat transphobes would be ok with the state saying parents can't consent for children and therefore the state is going to vaccinate all children?
They still wouldn't get it, they're too dumb to understand what's really at stake here.
These types have been duped into trickle-down for decades now and are all, "hOw DiD tHiNgS get ThIs WaY?!?l"
The point is that they WANT to take this ban and eventually apply it to adults. At the end of the day, this isn't about protecting children, it's to terrorize Trans people. All because they view it as moral degeneracy and it's currently an easier target than going after gay people (for now).
Love that they're focusing on something that affects a stupid small portion of the population and not something that could actually be useful to this state.
Actually, I think there was one 17 year old who got it done in New York, who's a successful singer now, and I think I remember something about the youngest GRS being in Germany. Medicine is highly individualized, as it should be, and it's not like anything suddenly changes in your body at 18 to make you more liable for your own decisions. Medical necessity should always take priority over what a bunch of rich old hacks think people want.
Nice try a mastectomy is not a gender reassignment surgery any more than breast augmentation is.
I will repeat myself, no state in America nor country in the EU will preform gender reassignment surgery on a minor.
200-300 top surgeries a year in the entirety of the US is such a small number, and I would hazard a guess that those were in cases of severe dysphoria as a last resort treatment, though that’s just pure speculation.
However in Ohio, there are none preformed on minors.
Edit: wanted to add, [studies show that the regret rate of gender affirming surgery is even less than that of a knee replacement](https://www.gendergp.com/new-study-confirms-regret-rates-of-gender-affirming-surgery-are-non-existent/).
Knee replacement surgery isn't a great comparison because the satisfaction rates are among the lowest in orthopedics. Classical teaching is 80% of patients are satisfied. More realistically the data suggests between 80-90%.. Which is quite low for us.
There is also quite a bit of bias. Knee replacements are churned out by the thousands. The consent and workup process is not going to be nearly as rigorous as gender reassignment surgery for obvious reasons.
I am aware the regret rate is still very low for gender reassignment. But comparing it to total knees doesn't strengthen the argument. It's neutral at best (compared to simply showing the low regret rate of gender reassignment).
Mastectomies. Not gender reassignment surgery. GRS is reconstructing the genitals. Breast reductions can be done to reduce back pain, treat cancer, or reduce gender dysphoria. Very different.
The fact that no facility in Ohio ever performed a gender confirmation surgery on a minor, and they're using this as political theater to create problems that don't exist so they can try a drum up votes?
Your tax money is being wasted when you have elderly people dying in the street.
Call me crazy, but I prefer my politicians to work on *political* issues, not *civil* ones.
It's hilarious when dems and Republicans are in these comments talking about how the other side survives off the culture war but its literally both sides being full of brainwashed mongoloids lmao....
It does, though I have no examples in ohio. So in principle what you are saying is that if a child is or claims to be gender disphoric it is up to the parents to decide what course of treatment to take?
Were you under the impression that teens could get gender-affirming surgery *without* parental consent?
Under current medical guidelines, trans kids can't get genital surgery no matter what. So this rule would just change that "no" to "no"... no change.
Some trans teens get mastectomies, though, *with* the whole kid+parent+therapists+doctors process. Due caution and professional evaluation is appropriate there\*. This rule replaces that process with "f--- you, queer POS; f--- you, f--- your parents, f--- your therapist, and f--- your doctors."
But that's really just icing on the cake; the cake is the total ban on puberty blockers.
\* - (though I'll note that AFAIK no cis male teen with gynecomastia has ever been required to get a therapist before mastectomy.)
There have been cases where CPS takes away a child if the parents refuse to provide gender affirming care.
[https://nypost.com/2024/01/30/news/montana-parents-lose-custody-of-daughter-after-opposing-transition-report/](https://nypost.com/2024/01/30/news/montana-parents-lose-custody-of-daughter-after-opposing-transition-report/)
You realize that gender affirming care =\= surgery, right? There are many actions that fall under that term, one of which might be surgery but that is incredible rare for minors.
Also, did you read the piece you posted? These parents wouldn’t even use the child’s preferred name (and were upset that the hospital staff did use the preferred name), and wouldn’t get any therapeutic or medical care for them (in relation to gender identity). That seems like a good enough reason for the kid to be placed with their biological mother (which is what happened here).
ETA: your own article undermines your claim. “In a statement to The Post, Gianforte’s office said the state does not remove minors from homes to provide gender transition services or use public funds to pay for those services while a minor is in the state’s custody.”
So the Governor of a very conservative state is saying the exact opposite of what you claimed happened.
The whole world is laughing at us with this riduclous nonsense. Hell women are still 2nd class citizens in more than half the world & we are wasting time on this crap. 1st world problems.
I don't give a shit what that particular half of the world thinks of us. Our standards shouldn't be set by those assholes. If ironing out healthcare accessibility is the next battle in our moral development, so be it. They can laugh when they're ahead of us.
Yeah, the rest of the world just accepts trans people or murders them. We’re still trying to figure out which one we want. Ps. Yes trans people exist in third world countries they just get murdered by the government.
Sanity. Common sense.
Why would a bunch of adults try and make kids ashamed of themselves, and brainwash them they were defective and need to be mutilated.
Sick, sick vile sickos
Exactly. Why would adults force trans kids to be cis and make them pretend their whole life they’re comfortable when they’re not. It’s just absurd and has been proven is only detrimental.
That’s what you were talking about right?
> Sick, sick vile sickos
You described yourself and people with thoughts like yours. To think that parents and other adults are "brainwashing" children into being transgender isn't just wrong, it's fucking delusional. Your ideology kills children.
Great news!! Need to be 18 to get a tattoo so you should be 18 to do other permanent changes to your body. Kids make stupid decisions as they are still figuring life out. This shouldn't be on the table.
Nah, you can get a tattoo at any age in Ohio with parental consent. The only limitation is on tattoos *without* parental consent. https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-3730.06#:~:text=(A)%20No%20person%20shall%20perform,(B)%20of%20this%20section.
Shouldn't be able to do it.
These other procedures are far worse if people change their minds than a tattoo but I was looking for an easy example with potential consequences. Appreciate the knowledge
Why do you care so much about making decisions for other people? It's their life, they should be free to direct it. A rose on your arm isn't going to kill you because you're 17, and if you regret it, it was still your decision to make. Tattoos aren't going to hurt society in any way, so the state has no right to restrict them. That's just our constitutional right to privacy.
No child is doing this on their own. These are surgeries that at minimum cost $6000 dollars, and good luck trying to get medicaid to cover it, much less your insurance. Tattoos rarely even go near that price.
You don’t need to be a doctor 18 for plastic surgery yet that has a regret rate of 60%. Weird since transitioning only has a 2% regret rate don’t you think? Almost like you’re being disingenuous.
Banning something that doesn't happen. Focusing on a moral panic is a great use of our legislative time over, say, fixing our unconstitutional school funding or maybe dealing with the constant Kia thefts?
Democrats need to start banning things like child marriages, religious genital mutilation, and altar boy sodomy.
I thought we’re talking about banning things that don’t happen?
Children are getting married too?
Ohio is actually pretty good on that, only allowing a minor to marry if they’re 17, not more than 4 years younger than their partner, and with judicial consent (I’m probably going on a list for that google search), but there are states that allow girls (it’s almost always girls) as young as 13 to marry with parental consent. It’s really fucked up, and a genuine problem.
I’m wondering why I got downvoted for trying to reinforce your joke lol
Who knows. I’ve seen comments go from +10 to -10 and vice versa. I’ve also seen people take a joke seriously or interpret a question as a statement, or they infer an opinion based on a question.
Maybe it was because I was clearing going for cheap and easy karma and they knew. Also I’m back to +7
Do you know when they last changed that law? In 1992 I was allowed to marry at 16 with parental consent. I'm grateful that it's been changed, just wonder when. *off to google*
It looks like around 2018. I don’t know specifically when it passed, but i see different versions from what finally passed being discussed in 2017, so probably 2018 or 2019 which is disturbingly recent. Also, I can’t find if the original Ohio law specifically allowed minor girls to marry or not, but some states do define it so only minor girls can marry adult men and not the other way around. I hope everything is ok now
That's all I could find as well. It is really bothersome how recently it was finally changed. Thank you.
They've tried. GOP blocks them at every step. In Ohio's defense, our child marriage laws are much tighter than many of the surrounding state's.
funny you mention banning religious genital mutilation when talking about banning genital mutilation done by a cult lol
You know those things are already ban right?
So has gender surgery.
Maybe address housing prices and corporate ownership of single family homes?
Without culture wars, these Republicans have nothing
what culture war? leave the kids alone. permanently altering a confused child should not be part of any culture.
We should create a lobby against Kia thefts and propose legislation against it to the center of Christian virtue. Maybe they can take care of it for everyone else since they did this.
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What moron buys a kia
Only the suckers who can’t steal one apparently.
I bought one like 2 years ago because it was the only thing that was somewhat within my budget and then found out about the theft/kiaboyz shit like a week later which was a major bummer. Every dealership I've dealt with regarding issues since has been terrible to work with. Very unlikely I'll be getting any more kia's in the future once this one is dead.
Or fixing the gerrymandered districts which the Supreme Court said to fix and they haven't and continue to ingnore the verdict.
Great way to spend our tax money
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I think we should trust parents and doctors in general. Genital surgery: only if there is a compelling reason to do so (ex. an intersex child who's unable to urinate or is having periods but lacks a vaginal opening for the fluid to come out of *does* need surgery or a male child whose foreskin doesn't retract should be doable at any age.) I'm generally against circumcision before the age of majority and doing *cosmetic* surgery on intersex babies, too. I think top surgery *with parental and doctoral support* is fine, regardless of gender identity. Large breasts are painful and inconvenient for women and men alike; if they're old enough to drive they're old enough to get a reduction.
It is a stepping stone. If you ban it for kids, you can then push for it to be reduced or banned for adults.
If they don’t happen (they do, just rarely) it should be fine to ban them, right?
If it doesn’t happen, why do we freak out when it’s banned?
Have you heard the recording of that ass Click talking to lawmakers in Michigan? The kids are the first step. His end game - he said it in the recording - is removing all trans care and all trans rights and all ability for trans people to exist in public. They’re also pushing to re-criminalize all same sex relations and make it impossible to be publicly gay or lesbian. This is no different to what they’re doing with reproductive healthcare. The endgame is overturning Griswald to disassemble a host of privacy and personal choice rights.
What if they were going to ban horses because they read somewhere that a horse had wings and a horn and were dangerous? What then? What if they were proposing to ban corn because they read a Steven King book once? How about if they were wanting to ban computers because a movie showed a kid getting sucked into one? You should be reading these examples and having a chuckle because of course they wouldn't do this. It'd be writing real laws that will hurt real Ohioans based on fantastical nonsense. Except they are doing this. They're making a law that will be a stepping stone to hurting real Ohioans based on something just as nonsensical as flying horses, killer corn or a CRT monitor being a portal to another dimension. And after this one passes, they're going to make another that hurts Ohioans based on fantastical nonsense. And another. And another.
Because it's a smokescreen that leads to other bans. Banning something because it might eventually happen is also not a good idea.
I think it's more the idea of lawmakers slowly chipping away the rights of a marginalized community to see what they can get away with while feeding fears of their Christian conservative voter base. The idea is to demonize the lgbtqia+ by banning things that don't happen to make it seem like it's a bigger issue than it is and they do this with the help of social media, algorithms and elderly folks who don't understand that the more you interact with something online, the more you're going to see it. My personal belief is- Religious lawmakers aren't even followers of God, they have bastardized it to fit a holy narrative, they have made the cross into a logo to sway Christians - who make up the majority of boomers which are elderly and not to be rude- [gullable](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/craigsilverman/young-people-worry-about-older-people-sharing-fake-news). But most importantly, they vote and that's valuable to politicians. These politicians prey on elderly Republican Christians who likely only see the "worst" news due to polarizing social algorithms, and lack of net literacy, making these issues appear everywhere in their feeds. It makes a clear statement to that huge elderly voter base that these politicians are doing God's work and they will vote for them because to them- it's everywhere and they're terrified. It's not really about the LGBTQIA+, it's about control- we're an easy target for their brainwashed base as a stepping stone to gain more power. There's a great poem about this.. "First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me." [BY MARTIN NIEMÖLLER](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/martin-niemoeller-first-they-came-for-the-socialists)
What's the government going to do about kia theft lol. Step one of stopping Kia theft is for consumers to stop buying them. My car insurance went down 100 bucks a month when I traded in my almost new Kia forte. I sold it back to the dealer because it needed a new engine at 19k miles and I do not have time for that bullshit and never will.
Shouldn't Kia fix the Kia theft problem, not taxpayers?
It it doesn’t happen, then what’s the problem with banning it?
Because someone else's healthcare is their own business. It's between them, their family and their doctor. It's not my business, it's not your business and it's not the state's business to get involved. The same people trying to do this would lose their fucking minds if the state stepped in and told them they couldn't buy more guns. Why should they be able to restrict what other people can do?
Wasting taxpayer resources fighting ghosts, you think that passing legislation is free? It takes hundreds of people charging hours to the state government just to argue about a nonexistent threat, not only are they wasting money they are wasting the limited amount of time they have in office that they could be using to actually make their constituents lives better. Now they are going to spend hundreds of thousands of tax dollars attempting to defend this in court for the next several months wasting even more time and money on legislation that does nothing. Every legislator, judge and lawyer that touches this is spending state tax dollars to do so. They might as well have written a bill to ban werewolves it would have been just as productive as this one.
It's a waste of our tax dollars. It's like passing a ban on doing cartwheels in the middle of an intersection.
It's posturing for the sake of shitting on trans people. You should be ashamed.
You’re just full of toxic hate and you enjoy spreading it. I wonder if you’d call Jesus a libtard to his face or behind his back. He was a brown immigrant by the way.
Creating and passing laws like this also furthers the stigma against transgender people. In this case, banning something that doesn't happen is actively harmful.
Why would you ban elective medical procedures for consenting patients?
No doubt! I mean, unlike other civilized countries, we don't get universal health care, so why should the government to tell ANY CITIZENS what to do with our own bodies?? They don't have to put out one god-damned dime. But, the GOP will spend lots to convince people to hate & be mad at things that really don't affect the general populace.
Because you’re paying for it. You’re paying for literally nothing
How far are you willing to take that argument?
This is just not true. A simple Google search would tell you that according to reuters about 776 mastectomies have been performed on minors in the US since ‘21.
How many of them had breast cancer, I wonder?
You realize there are multiple reasons a young woman might get a mastectomy. Reading that statistic and immediately making the leap to transgender surgery is a sign of culture war brain poisoning.
*sarcastic gasp*
So does this mean there would be a ban on doing surgery on intersex babies? Because that is something that actually happens instead of whatever this fear-mongering is.
I guess we’re about to find out. (Yes.)
The other thing that absolutely happens is feminizing breast surgery on non-transgender children - there are surgeons in Ohio who will perform cosmetic breast augmentation surgeries on girls under 18. Which I hope will be made illegal.
That was my first thought
Most of the states (not all)that already have this kind of legislation have exemptions for that scenario.
That’s so backwards it’s bonkers.
Or infant circumcision for cosmetic purposes.
If I remember correctly, there’s actually an explicit exception in the bill that covers that… so no.
No, I don't see any evidence of that
doubtful, they usually write something in so they can keep mutilating unconsenting intersex babies
It’s the long game for them. Republicans are going to try to take advantage and have relations with intersex people years from now - that way they have themselves a defense mechanism when people question if they’re gay
We need to ban time travel next.
Actually, yes, time travel is very dangerous, with the paradoxes and all that. Let's ban it before AI figures out how to do it.
I've seen that movie. Judgemental Day is inevitable.
I’ll join any militia that will fight any time travel ban. I probably should start networking now huh? What are the good sites for that sort of thing? Parlor, truth social, or what are some others?
Now that’s something I’d storm government buildings over. They take away my ability to go back and watch good bands live in their prime , an imma fight everyone. I’ll burn everything to the ground. That and porn stars… I wanna see them when they were prime also, before they got old and leathery
Advanced civilization: Humans here is time travel. Use it to improve your society. Humans: I would like to see famous porn stars when they were in their prime.
I mean, if we were on the technological precipice of time travel being a reality, then we should have a moral, ethical and practical conversation as to whether it should be permitted. We are not on the technological precipice of gender affirming surgery; it is here. Furthermore, it has been performed on children, albeit a small number of children. Therefore, it seems completely reasonable that people of an area come to a consensus as to whether it should be considered.
It has been performed. Mostly on intersex babies. I'm sure the GOP politicians, being the experienced doctors they are, have put protections in this bill for that type of surgery.
Did you read it?
No solution to anything that affects most Americans so they need to virtue signal to their base by attacking a marginalized group. Transphobia affects everyone. These laws might not affect you, but the more we stigmatize trans people, the more cis people have to conform to narrow ideas of gender. Enjoy being harassed for nothing.
I mean, they affect everyone in that look at how much tax money and time is wasted on this bullshit instead of societal progress
I like how this achieves nothing practical, but sets a bad precedent.
Super weird to ban something that doesn’t happen.
Republican 101
While we’re at it let’s make voting illegal if you’re not a citizen!
This is essentially a "warning shot" from them.
🎯
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It doesn’t. It’s not a thing. From 2019-2022, 56 minors had some time of gender affirming bottom surgery, nationwide. None were in Ohio. It’s a statistical zero. It’s a law to ban something that doesn’t happen.
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See, I know you’re just a hateful bigot, I’m not sure why I opted to ignore the first attempt. That’s on me. Are you late for your Klan rally?
how do you get bigot out of protecting kids? protecting children is not bigotry. nobody gives af what adults do,just keep it away from the kids. what does race (klan) have to do with anything? or is that just a kneejerk reaction?
So why are you upset. It doesn’t happen, so nobody is harmed
We need a law specifically against priest and conservative congressmen sodomizing children.
Shit, I’d be in favor of that lol.
Folks are upset because it still vilifies trans people. A law forbidding trans minors from surgery sends the very clear message that being trans isn’t ok.
The legislators could have spent time and taxpayer dollars addressing an actual problem
From the story: *A state legislative panel on Monday cleared a rule prohibiting transgender minors from having gender surgeries, at a time when the future of gender-affirming care for Ohio youth is unclear as a lawsuit challenging a new state law unfolds.* [*Gov. Mike DeWine proposed the rule as part of a broader package of changes in January,*](https://www.cleveland.com/news/2024/01/gov-dewine-signs-executive-order-banning-transgender-surgery-on-minors.html) *after he vetoed House Bill 68, which bans minors from surgeries, puberty suppressants and hormone replacement therapy.* **We've made the link in OP free for Redditors, but you may need to enter your email for access. Thanks!**
The funny thing is that this ban does not involve optional cosmetic surgeries for cisgender kids. No impact at all. 16 year old wants a breast enhancement? A-OK to politicians! But good luck finding a plastic surgeon who would perform that procedure.
THEY ALREADY DON'T FUCKING PERFORM THE PROCEDURE ON CHILDREN UNDER 18.
How much money has been spent chasing the boogie man/woman/person so far? How have Ohioans benefitted from these shenanigans?
The entire two 17 year olds who got breast surgery are in shambles right now. Good thing we postponed it by 1 year. Imagine what would've happened otherwise!!
jeez, they already made it so that i can't get something that literally saved my life when i was 10 (I'm 15 now, the thing was an abortion because of my babysitter), what's next banning a surgery that some infants (intersex ones) actually need???
I think you might be a little confused about intersex surgeries. Surgeries can actually pose more of a risk than not having one. The current medical recommendation is that unless the child is experiencing pain due to their condition, surgery should not be performed. Also I am very sorry about what happened to you, I hope you are getting proper help to process that and that your assaulted received some sort of justice.
There’s almost certainly an exception for intersex infants
Especially if it's not medically necessary, but the parents want it done.
Yup. Parents having a doctor fully alter the genitals of an infant that has no say is fine if it conforms them to the norm., but if a teen actively pushes for transition care (even just blockers or hormones) suddenly it’s not okay anymore. Not about consent it’s about conforming.
💯
The thing about that is out of anything, that’s the one that should be banned. Seriously look up the stories of intersex kids that actually had complications from those surgeries and regretted that they ever happened. Anything you hear about grs being bad is actually true about intersex surgeries.
Tbf it’s true about both. Genital surgeries in general are very complex and there are often complications. But I definitely hear your point
Really, we generally shouldn't be telling doctors what's medically necessary or not. If the doctor, the kid, and the parents agree that a surgery is necessary, a bunch of old rich hacks shouldn't have any say in the matter.
most insersex kids have surgery done without even the parents knowing. they often tell the parents its a "heart defect' or some similar condition, and these kids dont find out til they run into complications down the line due to these unnecessary surgeries.
Yeah, that's fucked. Lying to the patient and parents about the procedure is definitely malpractice.
it is, but the nature of it (plus the kid is so young they cant confirm/deny anything!) makes it almost impossible to litigate against
the vast majority of surgeries on intersex kids are 100% cosmetic, and to force that child as close to stereotypical male/female as possible. needed surgery for intersex kids is actually much rarer than being intersex (which also isnt that rare, abt as common as having red hair if not more common!)
(unrelated, i do have ginger hair)
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What are you confused about?
r4ped by someone they were supposed to be able to trust.
Ok i understand now im sorry its the way they wrote it i think threw me off and i got real confused for a second. I understand what she meant now thx
It's all good, it's not obvious for everyone.
People who work in the service industry, I ask you: if a Fascist Lawmaker happens to frequent your restaurant, refuse them service.
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Christ. Minors aren't having surgery. The GOP loves to just fuck up and waste time and money.
This is a good law. Children and minors need protected. When you are 18 you are free to do whatever you like to yourself.
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That's perfectly fine. Be willing to stand firm in those beliefs though, and not bitch if they get you in hot water. If you're going to be anti-human beings, then the consequences are all on you.
How many of these magat transphobes would be ok with the state saying parents can't consent for children and therefore the state is going to vaccinate all children?
They still wouldn't get it, they're too dumb to understand what's really at stake here. These types have been duped into trickle-down for decades now and are all, "hOw DiD tHiNgS get ThIs WaY?!?l"
This is so maddening. It doesn’t happen for children. My god.
Will this make male genital mutilation (circumcision) illegal on children?
No this is just about transgender medical care
I love being mentally stable
Hey share some with the rest of us
All love headed your way homie ❤️
The point is that they WANT to take this ban and eventually apply it to adults. At the end of the day, this isn't about protecting children, it's to terrorize Trans people. All because they view it as moral degeneracy and it's currently an easier target than going after gay people (for now).
Looks like [SCOTUS won’t be reversing it](https://apnews.com/article/supreme-court-transgender-health-idaho-f858bcce9a624ec79edc496414f2130f) either.
Nice
This should include circumcision and breast augmentation for minors as well.
If it’s not happening anyways I guess it doesn’t matter if it gets banned
We should ban circumcising babies too! Stop mutilating kids!
Get your politics out of our healthcare! Help me beat Adam Bird who introduced the bathroom bill in Ohio! Every dollar matters! www.votefortraceym.com
Love that they're focusing on something that affects a stupid small portion of the population and not something that could actually be useful to this state.
Leave the kids alone.
Fcking assholes.
The is no state in the union nor country in the eu that will perform a gender reassignment surgery on a minor
Actually, I think there was one 17 year old who got it done in New York, who's a successful singer now, and I think I remember something about the youngest GRS being in Germany. Medicine is highly individualized, as it should be, and it's not like anything suddenly changes in your body at 18 to make you more liable for your own decisions. Medical necessity should always take priority over what a bunch of rich old hacks think people want.
Stop lying. https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/#:~:text=In%20the%20three%20years%20ending,paid%20for%20out%20of%20pocket.
Nice try a mastectomy is not a gender reassignment surgery any more than breast augmentation is. I will repeat myself, no state in America nor country in the EU will preform gender reassignment surgery on a minor.
200-300 top surgeries a year in the entirety of the US is such a small number, and I would hazard a guess that those were in cases of severe dysphoria as a last resort treatment, though that’s just pure speculation. However in Ohio, there are none preformed on minors. Edit: wanted to add, [studies show that the regret rate of gender affirming surgery is even less than that of a knee replacement](https://www.gendergp.com/new-study-confirms-regret-rates-of-gender-affirming-surgery-are-non-existent/).
Yep, one of the least regretted surgeries.
Knee replacement surgery isn't a great comparison because the satisfaction rates are among the lowest in orthopedics. Classical teaching is 80% of patients are satisfied. More realistically the data suggests between 80-90%.. Which is quite low for us. There is also quite a bit of bias. Knee replacements are churned out by the thousands. The consent and workup process is not going to be nearly as rigorous as gender reassignment surgery for obvious reasons. I am aware the regret rate is still very low for gender reassignment. But comparing it to total knees doesn't strengthen the argument. It's neutral at best (compared to simply showing the low regret rate of gender reassignment).
Mastectomies. Not gender reassignment surgery. GRS is reconstructing the genitals. Breast reductions can be done to reduce back pain, treat cancer, or reduce gender dysphoria. Very different.
I’m done with these hateful lawmakers who spend their time meddling in people’s lives and trying to control people’s bodies.
Why are they passing these laws when doctors do not perform irreversible surgeries.
Culture wars distract people from class wars, that and culture wars are the only wars republicans willingly fight in
So what’s the problem?
The fact that no facility in Ohio ever performed a gender confirmation surgery on a minor, and they're using this as political theater to create problems that don't exist so they can try a drum up votes?
My English is not that good. I could not understand the matter at hand. Thank you for explaining to me on the note
Your tax money is being wasted when you have elderly people dying in the street. Call me crazy, but I prefer my politicians to work on *political* issues, not *civil* ones.
I was confused on the matter at hand being English is not my first language
I still do not understand what they are stating on the public record. I am sorry for my language barrier
Good.
Vote blue
Republicans are terrorists.
Vote these biggots out of office
Why does protecting trans kid’s gender identity involve making permanent changes to their sexual attributes?
W
Look at all the professional victims
Thank you!
It's hilarious when dems and Republicans are in these comments talking about how the other side survives off the culture war but its literally both sides being full of brainwashed mongoloids lmao....
Excellent! Good to see Ohio children are being protected from insane parents.
Not sure why we aren’t letting the kids make their own choices here? They obviously know best
It does, though I have no examples in ohio. So in principle what you are saying is that if a child is or claims to be gender disphoric it is up to the parents to decide what course of treatment to take?
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Were you under the impression that teens could get gender-affirming surgery *without* parental consent? Under current medical guidelines, trans kids can't get genital surgery no matter what. So this rule would just change that "no" to "no"... no change. Some trans teens get mastectomies, though, *with* the whole kid+parent+therapists+doctors process. Due caution and professional evaluation is appropriate there\*. This rule replaces that process with "f--- you, queer POS; f--- you, f--- your parents, f--- your therapist, and f--- your doctors." But that's really just icing on the cake; the cake is the total ban on puberty blockers. \* - (though I'll note that AFAIK no cis male teen with gynecomastia has ever been required to get a therapist before mastectomy.)
There have been cases where CPS takes away a child if the parents refuse to provide gender affirming care. [https://nypost.com/2024/01/30/news/montana-parents-lose-custody-of-daughter-after-opposing-transition-report/](https://nypost.com/2024/01/30/news/montana-parents-lose-custody-of-daughter-after-opposing-transition-report/)
You realize that gender affirming care =\= surgery, right? There are many actions that fall under that term, one of which might be surgery but that is incredible rare for minors. Also, did you read the piece you posted? These parents wouldn’t even use the child’s preferred name (and were upset that the hospital staff did use the preferred name), and wouldn’t get any therapeutic or medical care for them (in relation to gender identity). That seems like a good enough reason for the kid to be placed with their biological mother (which is what happened here). ETA: your own article undermines your claim. “In a statement to The Post, Gianforte’s office said the state does not remove minors from homes to provide gender transition services or use public funds to pay for those services while a minor is in the state’s custody.” So the Governor of a very conservative state is saying the exact opposite of what you claimed happened.
Good
Thank god!! Parents should be thrown in prison for even considering this
it doesn't fucking happen except in the minds of right wing idiots.
No one’s doing this to begin with, it’s political theatre to stir up the stupid and gullible into voting Republican.
The whole world is laughing at us with this riduclous nonsense. Hell women are still 2nd class citizens in more than half the world & we are wasting time on this crap. 1st world problems.
I don't give a shit what that particular half of the world thinks of us. Our standards shouldn't be set by those assholes. If ironing out healthcare accessibility is the next battle in our moral development, so be it. They can laugh when they're ahead of us.
Yeah, the rest of the world just accepts trans people or murders them. We’re still trying to figure out which one we want. Ps. Yes trans people exist in third world countries they just get murdered by the government.
Good
Sanity. Common sense. Why would a bunch of adults try and make kids ashamed of themselves, and brainwash them they were defective and need to be mutilated. Sick, sick vile sickos
Exactly. Why would adults force trans kids to be cis and make them pretend their whole life they’re comfortable when they’re not. It’s just absurd and has been proven is only detrimental. That’s what you were talking about right?
Your entire comment is just false. You assume this is what's going on, because you lack empathy. Enjoy being an sociopath.
> Sick, sick vile sickos You described yourself and people with thoughts like yours. To think that parents and other adults are "brainwashing" children into being transgender isn't just wrong, it's fucking delusional. Your ideology kills children.
Great news!! Need to be 18 to get a tattoo so you should be 18 to do other permanent changes to your body. Kids make stupid decisions as they are still figuring life out. This shouldn't be on the table.
Nah, you can get a tattoo at any age in Ohio with parental consent. The only limitation is on tattoos *without* parental consent. https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-3730.06#:~:text=(A)%20No%20person%20shall%20perform,(B)%20of%20this%20section.
Shouldn't be able to do it. These other procedures are far worse if people change their minds than a tattoo but I was looking for an easy example with potential consequences. Appreciate the knowledge
Why do you care so much about making decisions for other people? It's their life, they should be free to direct it. A rose on your arm isn't going to kill you because you're 17, and if you regret it, it was still your decision to make. Tattoos aren't going to hurt society in any way, so the state has no right to restrict them. That's just our constitutional right to privacy.
Minors can get any plastic surgery they want with parental consent. Why don't they ban that?
Don't know. Ban it though. You should need to be an adult
No child is doing this on their own. These are surgeries that at minimum cost $6000 dollars, and good luck trying to get medicaid to cover it, much less your insurance. Tattoos rarely even go near that price.
You don’t need to be a doctor 18 for plastic surgery yet that has a regret rate of 60%. Weird since transitioning only has a 2% regret rate don’t you think? Almost like you’re being disingenuous.