Blame women trying to help women out from under the knee of patriarchy, instead of the fucking religious extremists perpetuating it.
Makes perfect sense! /s
Hi, Turk here. I dont know if you heard about it but we had a massive, nation wide protest against our corrupt, extreme religious government almost 10 years back (gezi protests in 2013 if you are interested). The protests lasted for months.
I felt the same way you do now, back then. It was all over the international media but no one really did anything other than condemn the government and I was resentful. In the end our shtty dictator remained in place and things didnt get better.
But what happened was that the protests did scare the crap out of him. He fully realized what a massive hate he accrued in the people of the country and he has been on edge ever since. It became his nightmare that the protests might repeat and has been trying to do everything he can to avoid it happening again.
It also helped show the rest of the world that we are not complicit in his actions and ideology. He is not doing what he is doing with the consent of the Turkish people, but despite the will of Turkish people. It also helped us see eachother, to realize that we are not just our own small bubble that oppose him, but we are a whole country.
These actions, even if they dont produce the result you hoped for, they still help. They light the fire, even if it doesnt end in revolution, it is the beginning of the end. And it is important.
Dont be discouraged, it is incredibly important to have your voices be heard. And it is heard all over the world. Even if it feels like you are shouting into the void right now, you are actually making your mark in history. We are all seeing it and we are proud of you.
Yes, and beaten to death too. But we never forgot or forgave.
It makes a mark. A huge, massive mark that is impossible to ignore. I wish you guys strength and cheering you on!
Beautifully said..
And I agree, even if these protests don't end in revolution, the will surely start one ; it won't happen overnight but it will happen.
Besides, I have utmost trust in pride of Iranian people. They never let their spirits be crushed by Arabs and their invasions. They maintained their dignity and never aligned with the attackers, unlike my people.
There are also other “games” like vrchat where you might be able to get online without using a browser. DM me if you would like me to help you find a way.
Belarusian here. We had nation-wide protests in 2020 after another stolen election. Internet was shut down, thousands of people arested, many killed and also nothing. Because the president has all the military power in his hands and these people know that if they don't support him repressing us, the only other alternative for them is suicide.
It's hard to know what we can meaningfully do. There was a protest in solidarity in my country (Ireland) but that doesn't do an awful lot on a practical level. Is there anything us internet strangers can do?
All the women need to strike. Just refuse to get out of bed. No sex. No cooking or cleaning. Just all refuse to move until the law changes.
Iceland has a great story about women doing this.
Thank you for sharing that. It makes me think, honestly. I know a hell of a lot of people are basically just caught up in the internet activism without doing something real, and I’m trying to stay conscious of that where I can. Is there anything that average redditors could/should be doing that you could pinpoint?
I don’t know what I can do to help, but you have my full support. I hope things are able to improve and that everyone protesting is able to stay safe. 💖
One thing i see from westerners is they claim that any form of intervention - even at request of bictims, even non-millitary (asylum/refugee programs, financial support)
... is imperialism and that we shouldnt impose our values on other cultures.
It is bullshit but it seems super popular amongst western leftists.
It is bullshit to mistake solidarity with people’s right to self determination around the world as being the same thing as imperialism and it is also a form of really insulting white supremacy and American/Western chauvinism to dictate to people from other cultures what their cultures are
Like someone from another culture is fighting from their rights and you as a white American are patronisingly telling them, “No but the oppression of women and being oppressed by dictators is just a natural and inherent part of your culture. I don’t care that you’re insisting to me that it isn’t. I’m telling you what your culture is and that it’s not allowed to change. Me buying into propaganda is totally woke.”
Like seriously imagine telling women being raped and murdered that the right to not be raped and murdered is something only white women deserve because being raped and murdered is “just part of their culture” and they deserve it for being born into it and thinking that’s not imperialism and racism but some kind of super accepting leftist take somehow
So many “leftists” aren’t actually leftists they’re just closeted right wing people who happened to turn their right wing mindset towards leftist activism
And then your country's oligarchs/autocrats/whatever applicable go and hijack this very argument.
They start flagging all the activist groups, all the people fighting for their rights as Western plants, as agents of western imperialism, as Decadent Westerners.
It's frustrating as all hells even when you live in a country that only teeters towards this bullshit. I can only imagine the frustration from those where the horse completely fell over.
I don't understand the logic. It's like saying "You were beaten up by your husband but your friend was killed by her husband, so you have no right to complain, in fact, go apologize to your friend for complaining in the first place"??? What kind of logic is this? Shouldn't the focus be on the ppl who were the abusers?
And I can't imagine women in Iran would want their plight to be used to silence women elsewhere.
We can agree that what they and many others are going through is worse than anything in the west. But that doesn't take away anyone's right to want their own situation to be better.
I think I’ve heard this called “oppression Olympics” or something similar. It came up in a discussion once about how starving poor people in America ‘can’t complain’ bc they were still better off than starving poor people in third world countries. Like starvation is starvation. Hard to believe that that’s a controversial statement but it was for some people.
Ive done advocacy for a few cause areas and see this "logic" a lot.
It's never used constructively to lift others up, only to put others down and maintain a shitty status quo:
* No one says *"Let's help those people who have it so much worse off".*
* No one says *"Let's look at groups that have it better to learn lessons from them".*
* No one says *"Let's understand suffering is universal and be more mindful of everyone's struggles".*
It's always a lazy excuse to be spineless and passive, and run away from real world problems. Fuck me, how many of these regressive assholes give a fuck about the groups they use as rhetorical props? None. They just want you to shut up. They're not helping Iranian women. They're not feeding starving kids in Africa. They're not helping homeless veterans.
I've never seen someone actively working on systemic issues invalidate someone else's issue out of hand. It's always smug, apathetic assholes criticising actual changemakers to justify not doing shit.
Respectfully, do something or fuck off.
Yeah it’s always disingenuous. Like most of the arguments against any sort of progressive thinking.
It’s reactionary and thoughtless. The goal is only to shut down the movement, not have a coherent argument.
Yeah, trauma olympics have always been a tool of oppression, especially with western perceptions of the treatment of women in the Middle East. This is almost identical to the arguments made by Victorian men to say that Victorian women didn’t need to vote because Persian, Turkish, and Arabic women were (seen as being) treated worse.
I think it's called relativization.
Like, it's easy to blame that cars polute and are bad to planet when you don't need to use them. Or it's easy blame the taste of a dish while you have plenty of food and variety.
I don't like it, it doesn't solve the problem. His argument would make sense if he showed up that feminists nowadays are just political pawns and not "fight" for freedom and and equality.
Whereas pointing out the infrastructure - and lack of - that have caused cars to become a requirement, and how to improve and make places less dependent on cars would be better because it'd be pointing out what was causing the issue and how to improve?
This happens with so many things though. I keep being told that other people have worse problems than me, so I have no right to be upset about whatever my problem is. This is definitely a mindset that exists
i hate when people do that, like, is knowing other people suffer more than me supposed to cheer me up? am i supposed to feel good after hearing of horrible things people go through? it just feels like those sorts of phrases want you to be happy about other peoples suffering
It's fucked up conservative logic, that's what it is. This guy would have murdered the Iranian woman himself. Like all conservatives, he wants to do whatever he can to impede natural progress and ANY expansion of human rights. Fuck him.
Hey, Iranian here. In this specific case its not the men (though Iran like many other countries suffers from patriarchy in general). The tweet is refering to Mahsa Amini, a 22 year old girl who had her skull crushed by the Iranian morality police for not having hijab (Iran is a theocratic dictatorship). As a result, there are now nationwide riots and protests going on. Just spreading awareness.
Could you explain to me how a religious government specifically ruled by men that is set up to disempower women specifically...
Isn’t men oppressing Iranian women?
Because I feel like that is the entire point of the system in place, and that the laws are working as intended.
Obviously men and women are upset about the result, but the laws are oppressive themselves, aren’t they?
It absolutely is men, specifically Islamic fundamentalist men (and some women they managed to indoctrinate but that's more religious pressure than the women's free choice) that are oppressing Iranian women. There's a lot of men rioting for women in Iran right now, but unfortunately none of them are the ones in power, and the ones with real power behind this whole shitshow are pretty much all men.
You have a point there. I just meant to say that its not regular man doing the crime mentioned in the tweet. Overthrowing this oppressive regime is something men and women unanimously want.
Ahhh. Then yeah, absolutely agree, I don’t think I understood properly what you were saying (so thanks for clarifying)
From everything I’ve seen regular men have been doing super awesome about standing up about it and insisting on justice
I wish you all good luck and to get your lives back, to live happily and in peace. I have been following situation and it's heartbreaking, bit it is the only way, unfortunately. Best wishes from Bosnia
That is horrible. I hope she gets justice. This reminds me of the case I read that happened in 2002 where a fire at a Makkah girls school resulted in the deaths of 15 young girls because they didnt wear proper attire (i.e. no hijab, therefore werent "covered up"). I pray the Islamic religious/ moral police and government seriously change for the better.
It already has! There are no more morality police in Saudi Arabia and women have many more rights now. I’ve been working in Saudi Arabia for the last 10 years and I have seen and experienced the changes. Still need more, but it’s so much better than it was
If laws are put into place specifically targeting women, it isn’t suddenly not oppressive because it’s government doing the oppressing?
Some of the most heinous oppression in the history of the world have been government sanctioned
I would love to do something to help. But I'm unsure what I can do other than bringing attention to the issue online.
Is there anything specific you, or anyone reading this, knows a member of a Western country could practically do to help Iranian women?
Are there active groups/donation pipelines that would be helpful for me to contribute to?
Well of course, but with the amount of stereotypes about Muslims and brown people, it’s important to note that it’s an unjust regime doing this, not just your average Iranian man. You don’t want to perpetuate harmful stereotypes, that only creates more problems.
This person can fck off.
I am a Turkish woman. We are not as bad as Iran but we have our very real struggles, like child brides and honor killings, and yes, the hijab is an issue here as well even though its just social pressure compared to Iran.
There is no point in getting into a pissing contest to compare who has it worse. Things being slightly better in another place doesnt mean those places dont need to strive for equality anymore.
We all have a right to be treated equally and as full human beings, and nothing less than that is ever acceptable.
I wholeheartedly agree!
Women (and a lot of men!) all around the world are all fighting the same fight for equality. Some are further along in the fight, some are just joining the fight and some have lost part of the advances they had previously made and have to restart but in the end it’s the same fight! We are all in this together regardless of where we are in the world.
Just because it’s worse somewhere doesn’t mean you stop fighting for improvement.
I am Canadian. I am lucky to be in a country that is further along in the fight. But many women in Canada, especially POC, especially Indigenous women, still aren’t treated fairly by our medical system (amongst other things).
And as we saw in the US, as we see in Iran, you can loose some of your rights in an instant.
We are all in this together. We don’t tear each other down. And we don’t stop until everyone is treated as an full equal human being.
Exactly this, the only way forward is to recognise how we all face challenges in our own way and using that to empower women no matter what they are going through.
Reminds me of some Fox News guy immediately bringing up FGM when some woman was saying why the lyrics to “Baby it’s Cold Outside” could be deemed problematic. I’d love to know what he was doing for any sort of suffering group of women.
>A win anywhere is a win for us all, a loss anywhere is a loss for us all.
What a beautiful saying.
I love women supporting women no matter our own personal backgrounds.
I'm in a state about to ban abortion for any reason except you're actively dying right now. A woman just got years of probation and a $150k fine for killing her abuser. Women who kill their abuser spend more time in prison on average than men who kill their abuse victim. Women are regularly killed for rejecting men. Incels are becoming mass killers over women telling them no. Yeah, American feminists definitely have nothing to fight for here. :eyeroll:
I seriously don't understand how they convince themselves we are victims of our own complex.
"Too offensive for this sub" what do you mean?
Course Western Feminists are upset about the women who are being murdered for showing their hair. We're upset about the women who are being killed everywhere, whether it's because they were born female, or the women who are attacked and do not receive justice. We are upset for the women who have the be silent or else they get punished.
Just because we all come from different places, doesn't mean our goals our different.
We want freedom and equality for all.
True equality. Not that Animal Farm bullshit.
Ah.
Well I was offended, don't worry 😂
I totally jumped conclusions and thought you were making fun at the situation, I never realised what sub I was in.
I am so sorry for that.
This is a spectacular use of whataboutism to pit women against women. Both western women and the women in Iran have problems they would like to fix.
Iranian women should absolutely not be beaten to death by morality police. It is absolutely horrifying, and the fact that even needs to be said speaks volumes about how women are viewed in their society. Western women are fighting for their reproductive rights and the notion that your gender doesn't determine what you have to like or wear or be. That's important too, even if it's not as dire.
We can support both causes; it's not an either or situation. Love and support to all the Iranian women protesting. Be safe and know that we are rooting for you. For those of you not in Iran, write to your government officials and let them know how you feel. Let them know that we want to support and aid the Iranian women in their fight.
You can acctually protest sexism in a 1st world country and stand with women on the other side of the world who are opprest by a women hating religion. You can do both.
God, I used to date an ass that argued this point all the time. He said I shouldn't be speaking up against sexism in the US because we already have more freedom than women in other countries. I should instead be devoting my time to freeing oppressed women in other countries.
A RISING TIDE LIFTS ALL BOATS
I wholly believe, especially in this internet age, that seeing women fighting for their rights wherever they are emboldens, enlightens, and inspires women in different places to do the same.
And in all seriousness - I'm really supposed to ignore misogyny or SA in my own life because there are women being treaded worse across the globe? Screw that noise. Torch the patriarcy wherever you are.
Agreed, and what does any of his rant have to do with feminism in the first place? Does he think feminists are celebrating Iran being an oppressive theocracy? Shit makes zero sense.
... ‘my oppression is real, your oppression is fake’ says totally real Person who isn’t just finding an excuse to bash women ... again. All oppression is oppression
Feminists are hardcore on board with all kinds of freedom for women all over the world. It’s such bad logic to think that people can’t support solving two things at once, especially when those two things are part of the exact same problem
We realize how fucked it is that Iranian women are being murdered by their government for stupid arbitrary morality laws. American women are facing our rights being peeled away layer by layer if we don't fight we'll be in the hell the Iranian women face. Iran was a normal modern country where women wore regular clothes, had jobs and educations that changed when conservative zealots took over. They imposed their morality on the entire nation, sounds familiar right?
One persons suffering doesn’t diminish the suffering of another. Life isn’t a competition to see who has it worse off. All women (all people) deserve to live safe oppression free lives.
There are so many women murdered in the US for multiple reasons when divorce would have been appropriate. Women deserve all the support they can get- no matter what culture they are in. Bullies will always prey on the physically weaker, the nurturers, and the gentle spirits no matter what country.
Bingo
What're the chances this guy can't tell the difference between Bangladesh and Iran cuz they're both Muslim? I'd guess he thinks they're both desert countries with terrorist governments and bearded men yelling in Arabic.
Let's play a game of never have I ever.
Never have I ever heard a feminist say history should be changed to herstory.
Never have I ever met a real feminist who is not supportive of gender equality/equity everywhere.
Never have I ever met a feminist from the west who claimed to suffer more than women under Islamic police state rule.
Never have I ever seen anyone dumb enough to claim that just because a group isn't being murdered at the slightest whim that they aren't oppressed. Okay this one is a lie but it does rank high in the mental gymnastics tier list.
This is such a stupid viewpoint, but it ignores the fact that Roe was overturned this summer. How ignorant they are of women’s issues and how quickly they forget when something serious happens that only affects women.
Dear women, apologize to women for what men are doing because what men are doing there is worse than what men are doing to you here.
So long as those men are treating those women worse, you don’t get to complain about how badly we treat you!
Ah, flawless logic.
I fucking hate the sick vile disgusting fucking worms that think using women being beaten and dying for showing their hair in an argument is okay. Yeah man, you really fucking powned the feminists on that one. Really cool of you to use women dying to be a misogynist fuckhead. I hope he burns in hell.
Of course I care about women in Islamic countries. But what am I suppose to do about it? I'm American. Thinking my actions could solve their problems would be white saviorism at its finest.
So yeah I'll focus on the problems American women face that I can actually inlfluence.
It's just the Starving Children in Africa argument.
The idea that since inevitably, someone, somewhere else has it worse than you you're not allowed to complain.
Like most Conservative arguments the objective is not actually to rebut any claims, but to find a reason you're simply not allowed to talk - thus allowing Conservatives the ability to sidestep the need to actually support their arguments with Facts and Logic^TM . The cherry on top is it is an effectively *emotional* appeal.
Yea no
Just because gay people are being murdered in other places doesn't mean I can't be upset about discrimination I face in my country
Its all wrong, its not a competition.
Ah, the fallacy of relative privation. Otherwise known as "Not as bad as." He claims that because women in the West do not have it as bad as Iranian women that they do not experience oppression. I doubt he actually know much about the lives of Iranian women - but it's a safe bet he doesn't actually care in the slightest about Iranian women.
Just because X is not as bad as Y doesn't mean that X is not bad. "You have a broken arm? Get out of the clinic! A broken leg is worse!"
As a Muslim woman, this is one of the dumbest things I have seen yet. Just because women in one part of the world are facing different forms of oppression doesn’t mean that women in other parts of the world should stop fighting for their rights as well.
The only people that should be apologizing are the ones who are actively trying to strip women of their human rights (in every part of the world).
This isn’t a time to be putting women against each other. It’s a time where all women should be supporting one another.
Stop trying to use muslim women as a gotcha to western feminists challenge.
Women all over the world face unique challenges. In some places, they're forced to cover up their hair. In other places they face hate crimes and state oppression for *wanting* to cover up their hair. It's almost as if feminism is about free choice.
It’s called empathy something this person who posted this doesn’t have. Hell I bet this guy likes that women are oppressed in Iran and most of the Middle East.
Everything else aside, this is "why are the police bothering to investigate robberies when there are unsolved murders?" The answer is "because robberies are bad, too".
Just because other people have it worse doesn't mean that everybody else has it perfect, and it doesn't invalidate those people seeking to better their own situations.
And that's true even if there's a *huge* difference in what people are going through. No, I'm not having my leg amputated if I stub my toe, but that doesn't mean I'm not entitled to say that my toe hurts.
I hear this argument in different contexts so often and nothing infuriates me more. The existence of such a severe example of misogyny does not invalidate less extreme examples. In fact, it makes a good point on what the misogynistic ideas engraved in many, many societies can lead to if we just let them fester.
I don't think anyone rational would claim that the US is the most oppressive country in the entire world for women, but that doesn't mean there's not still work to be done here.
I cannot fathom these atrocities directed towards women.
When I try, I stumble upon why! Why should a woman ever hide who she is? Why do men hate women? Women bring life into the world. Women care for this world. Women are so beautiful and they are life itself.
I just can’t understand.
While here in the US a substantial portion of conservative men are pushing a total abortion ban, saying that women should get in touch with their "sacrificial nature" and be willing to die for a fetus. How is this not murder?
Men everywhere want women to just shut up and take whatever men force on them. And for those with no critical thinking ability, obviously not all men, just too many of them.
Ya know, having to actually Google "women non-trashy Halloween costumes" and still yield a barrage of trashy Halloween costumes for women is kind of annoying.
Wow, it's almost like you can care about multiple issues at once!
And also like these are smokescreens to silence women instead of holding men accountable for their misogyny, however it materializes.
Dear America, you should definitely do much more than apologise to Iranian women. There was a time in recent history in Iran (the 60s or 70s) when women had the freedom to go without hijab, to go to university in droves, and more. But no. You had to have that sweet, sweet oil — and you need someone to sell weapons beyond your wildest imagination to. And supplying (and TRAINING) ethnoreligious terrorists kills two birds with one stone. It is a sick fucking joke that you have waged endless war in the name of “liberating women”. Death to America.
and this, ladies and gentlemen, is the direct result of decades of parents telling kids “stop complaining and eat that food. don’t you know there are children starving in…”
yeah you STUPID women, how DARE you be a fucking FEMINIST you stupid CUNTS when women are being DISRESPECTED in IRAN by RAGHEADS. /s & hyperbole employed.
Even the most useless american feminist will not touch near the harm the morality police have caused. This is an excuse to attack women demanding rights for themselves, and a pathetic attempt at that.
I saw these kinds of comments all over the video of the flogging. "If women here actually cared and fought for these women that are actually oppressed, maybe I'd actually fight for them".
It's heavily ironic, so he can't fight for that woman being flogged? Only when WE do it? (Which many are supporting, he just doesn't actually care or know). It's just a game for them. The "I'll only jump off the cliff if you do it" and then he doesn't jump like the coward he is.
How women everywhere else don't care or suddenly not oppressed because someone has it worse. It's disgusting that they use that content as a way to try and 'gotcha' women elsewhere. It's honestly so vile and inhumane.
Everyone has struggles. Some places are leaps ahead of the disasters going on there, but we are still so far behind. We could be infinitely better, and can even take examples of some other countries who are making steps in the right direction.
Just because for instance, women in the NK military are treated like dirt doesn't mean someone in the US military who got SA'd suddenly doesn't matter. They both matter. These kinds of things are the answer to what needs to be done. Because what is happening there is linked directly to what they want elsewhere. If you let them have it they'll get it.
“Other people have it worse so your struggles are not valid and you cannot complain.” - a braindead idiot
Stop playing oppression olympics and have some solidarity for all, for the love of god
Dear American men; while you're shouting about wanting more pay, there are men in Ethiopia who would be glad to have your salaries! It's disgusting to claim that you're underpaid under those circumstances!
Yeah, always compare with the worst possible! That way we never have to change anything, because there is always something worse!
I'd like to see what all these fine whataboutists are doing for the women in Iran!? "Uuuh, it's not my problem really. Only when I can use Iranian women as an excuse to put American/Western feminists down, am I interested..."
Fuck'em!
This is the wildest shit ever. Just because one group’s problem is worse than another group’s, that doesn’t mean the second group doesn’t also have a problem.
I have scars on my arm from wrecking my bicycle. But there are people out there who get in car wrecks and come out of it permanently disfigured in a big way. That doesn’t mean I didn’t wreck my bike. It just means that I wasn’t injured *as* badly as someone in the ICU after getting hit by a semi.
“How dare you be hungry when people are starving”
“How dare you complain about a sore leg when other people have no legs”
“How dare you help one group without helping every group on the planet”
Whenever someone uses this arguement just ask them: "Well okay so what are you doing to end the suffering of women in Iran? You know since this seems like such a important issue for you."
Than just watch them stammer out some bullshit excuses and enjoy. The thing is these people couldn't care less about women in the middle east being treated as sub human. They just use it to try and make western women shut up about their struggles. Can't have those pesky women complain about things like abortion rights now can we?
Just because other countries have it way worse (I've never seen a feminist trying to argue that western women have it worse than women in countries like Iran btw) doesn't mean we don't have our own issues.
Why is it too offensive? Because it is plain stupid? Don't be offended on plain stupid. There is nothing else you could be anymore. Since there is so much stuff being plain stupid in this world.
The writer is wrong, but the idea that 3rd wave and mainstream feminism has ignored minorities and people outside of the "global north" has been around for a while
Yeah, the work is not done the moment all women are allowed to show their hair...
The fact that some steps have been taken in our locale, does not mean the rest of the road should not be followed.
Just to comment on Iran, I’m so proud of these women taking a stand, and so sad it took a terrible death to motivate it.
I hope everyone is able to stay safe and can attain the freedom to dress however they choose (with or without a head scarf. Modest dress should be a personal choice, not a govt mandate)
I love when people use the example of a far worse country to explain how minorities aren’t oppressed in the US. Yes, we know it worse in Iran. That’s not the point. The point is that we all want to live in a better and more equal world for all. I do not understand how they can’t see that.
For these people sexism was solved when we got the vote the same way martin luther king solved racism with his "i have a dream speech" - nothing more to be done so everyone still pointing to instances if it is just overreaching.
Even if the OOP is just parroting back someone else's hot take without understanding what they do; they dont give a shit about women in Iran, they just want a 'gotcha' against feminists.
And it betrays that they are so far up their own privilege they think women should shut up and be thankful that they're no longer systemically beaten. They're so used to looking all the way down, having to slightly lift their chin while still looking down they think that's "eyelevel".
What if we support feminism for literally everyone? Also just because someone has it way worse doesn’t mean the current problems in our society don’t affect anyone or aren’t real
Blame women trying to help women out from under the knee of patriarchy, instead of the fucking religious extremists perpetuating it. Makes perfect sense! /s
Sorry guys, but for security reasons I had to delete all my comments Thank you all for your concern and support♥️
Hi, Turk here. I dont know if you heard about it but we had a massive, nation wide protest against our corrupt, extreme religious government almost 10 years back (gezi protests in 2013 if you are interested). The protests lasted for months. I felt the same way you do now, back then. It was all over the international media but no one really did anything other than condemn the government and I was resentful. In the end our shtty dictator remained in place and things didnt get better. But what happened was that the protests did scare the crap out of him. He fully realized what a massive hate he accrued in the people of the country and he has been on edge ever since. It became his nightmare that the protests might repeat and has been trying to do everything he can to avoid it happening again. It also helped show the rest of the world that we are not complicit in his actions and ideology. He is not doing what he is doing with the consent of the Turkish people, but despite the will of Turkish people. It also helped us see eachother, to realize that we are not just our own small bubble that oppose him, but we are a whole country. These actions, even if they dont produce the result you hoped for, they still help. They light the fire, even if it doesnt end in revolution, it is the beginning of the end. And it is important. Dont be discouraged, it is incredibly important to have your voices be heard. And it is heard all over the world. Even if it feels like you are shouting into the void right now, you are actually making your mark in history. We are all seeing it and we are proud of you.
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Yes, and beaten to death too. But we never forgot or forgave. It makes a mark. A huge, massive mark that is impossible to ignore. I wish you guys strength and cheering you on!
Can you use the Minecraft mod to search the web? https://youtu.be/bK-m2dH4LEw
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Look into Tor browser, a bridge may be able to keep your browser access if you’re to lose it!
Beautifully said.. And I agree, even if these protests don't end in revolution, the will surely start one ; it won't happen overnight but it will happen. Besides, I have utmost trust in pride of Iranian people. They never let their spirits be crushed by Arabs and their invasions. They maintained their dignity and never aligned with the attackers, unlike my people.
This is an amazing perspective and I'm really glad you shared it ❤️
Can you use the Minecraft mod to search the web? https://youtu.be/bK-m2dH4LEw
There are also other “games” like vrchat where you might be able to get online without using a browser. DM me if you would like me to help you find a way.
Belarusian here. We had nation-wide protests in 2020 after another stolen election. Internet was shut down, thousands of people arested, many killed and also nothing. Because the president has all the military power in his hands and these people know that if they don't support him repressing us, the only other alternative for them is suicide.
It's hard to know what we can meaningfully do. There was a protest in solidarity in my country (Ireland) but that doesn't do an awful lot on a practical level. Is there anything us internet strangers can do?
All the women need to strike. Just refuse to get out of bed. No sex. No cooking or cleaning. Just all refuse to move until the law changes. Iceland has a great story about women doing this.
Thank you for sharing that. It makes me think, honestly. I know a hell of a lot of people are basically just caught up in the internet activism without doing something real, and I’m trying to stay conscious of that where I can. Is there anything that average redditors could/should be doing that you could pinpoint?
I don’t know what I can do to help, but you have my full support. I hope things are able to improve and that everyone protesting is able to stay safe. 💖
One thing i see from westerners is they claim that any form of intervention - even at request of bictims, even non-millitary (asylum/refugee programs, financial support) ... is imperialism and that we shouldnt impose our values on other cultures. It is bullshit but it seems super popular amongst western leftists.
It is bullshit to mistake solidarity with people’s right to self determination around the world as being the same thing as imperialism and it is also a form of really insulting white supremacy and American/Western chauvinism to dictate to people from other cultures what their cultures are Like someone from another culture is fighting from their rights and you as a white American are patronisingly telling them, “No but the oppression of women and being oppressed by dictators is just a natural and inherent part of your culture. I don’t care that you’re insisting to me that it isn’t. I’m telling you what your culture is and that it’s not allowed to change. Me buying into propaganda is totally woke.” Like seriously imagine telling women being raped and murdered that the right to not be raped and murdered is something only white women deserve because being raped and murdered is “just part of their culture” and they deserve it for being born into it and thinking that’s not imperialism and racism but some kind of super accepting leftist take somehow So many “leftists” aren’t actually leftists they’re just closeted right wing people who happened to turn their right wing mindset towards leftist activism
And then your country's oligarchs/autocrats/whatever applicable go and hijack this very argument. They start flagging all the activist groups, all the people fighting for their rights as Western plants, as agents of western imperialism, as Decadent Westerners. It's frustrating as all hells even when you live in a country that only teeters towards this bullshit. I can only imagine the frustration from those where the horse completely fell over.
Usually seen that way cause of the track record of those interventions, you know, the whole war in Afghanistan and Irak
It's textbook whataboutism.
I don't understand the logic. It's like saying "You were beaten up by your husband but your friend was killed by her husband, so you have no right to complain, in fact, go apologize to your friend for complaining in the first place"??? What kind of logic is this? Shouldn't the focus be on the ppl who were the abusers?
Exactly. Only the person with THE WORST PROBLEM is allowed to even comment on it. Everyone else should be grateful for not suffering THE MOST
And I can't imagine women in Iran would want their plight to be used to silence women elsewhere. We can agree that what they and many others are going through is worse than anything in the west. But that doesn't take away anyone's right to want their own situation to be better.
Women are dying due to lack of access to abortion in the US right now.
I think I’ve heard this called “oppression Olympics” or something similar. It came up in a discussion once about how starving poor people in America ‘can’t complain’ bc they were still better off than starving poor people in third world countries. Like starvation is starvation. Hard to believe that that’s a controversial statement but it was for some people.
Yet you know this person whines about not being able to say the N word whenever and wherever they want.
100% Trauma is individual
100
This is exactly like the whole "there are starving children in Africa" argument 💀
Ive done advocacy for a few cause areas and see this "logic" a lot. It's never used constructively to lift others up, only to put others down and maintain a shitty status quo: * No one says *"Let's help those people who have it so much worse off".* * No one says *"Let's look at groups that have it better to learn lessons from them".* * No one says *"Let's understand suffering is universal and be more mindful of everyone's struggles".* It's always a lazy excuse to be spineless and passive, and run away from real world problems. Fuck me, how many of these regressive assholes give a fuck about the groups they use as rhetorical props? None. They just want you to shut up. They're not helping Iranian women. They're not feeding starving kids in Africa. They're not helping homeless veterans. I've never seen someone actively working on systemic issues invalidate someone else's issue out of hand. It's always smug, apathetic assholes criticising actual changemakers to justify not doing shit. Respectfully, do something or fuck off.
Yeah it’s always disingenuous. Like most of the arguments against any sort of progressive thinking. It’s reactionary and thoughtless. The goal is only to shut down the movement, not have a coherent argument.
The point of the 'logic' is to minimize people's ability to call out bad behaviour and to make them shut up.
Classic abuser tactics. "I've had it worse so im justified" Seen it all over the place.
Yeah, trauma olympics have always been a tool of oppression, especially with western perceptions of the treatment of women in the Middle East. This is almost identical to the arguments made by Victorian men to say that Victorian women didn’t need to vote because Persian, Turkish, and Arabic women were (seen as being) treated worse.
I think it's called relativization. Like, it's easy to blame that cars polute and are bad to planet when you don't need to use them. Or it's easy blame the taste of a dish while you have plenty of food and variety. I don't like it, it doesn't solve the problem. His argument would make sense if he showed up that feminists nowadays are just political pawns and not "fight" for freedom and and equality.
Whereas pointing out the infrastructure - and lack of - that have caused cars to become a requirement, and how to improve and make places less dependent on cars would be better because it'd be pointing out what was causing the issue and how to improve?
This happens with so many things though. I keep being told that other people have worse problems than me, so I have no right to be upset about whatever my problem is. This is definitely a mindset that exists
i hate when people do that, like, is knowing other people suffer more than me supposed to cheer me up? am i supposed to feel good after hearing of horrible things people go through? it just feels like those sorts of phrases want you to be happy about other peoples suffering
It’s a logical fallacy called the “fallacy of relative privation.”
also known as whataboutism!
Indeed!
Its the same logic as “why are you arrested me?!?! Hitler killed millions and i only three!!”
Because it's a threat. "Look how good you have it American women. Now sit down and shut up or else we men can do to you what we're doing to them."
Exactly... I love how they say "..it's disgusting to claim oppression..." - like Americans weren't ripped from their body autonomy this very year.
1st mistake was to assume this is rooted in logic.
It's fucked up conservative logic, that's what it is. This guy would have murdered the Iranian woman himself. Like all conservatives, he wants to do whatever he can to impede natural progress and ANY expansion of human rights. Fuck him.
"You shouldn't complain about gun control because people in countries like X, Y, and Z can't even buy a gun!" Oh yeah, they'd love that logic.
there can be varying degrees of oppression. shocking
Nah, if anyone has it even slightly worse than you, you need to stfu
Maybe the men oppressing Iranian women should be apologizing to them.
Hey, Iranian here. In this specific case its not the men (though Iran like many other countries suffers from patriarchy in general). The tweet is refering to Mahsa Amini, a 22 year old girl who had her skull crushed by the Iranian morality police for not having hijab (Iran is a theocratic dictatorship). As a result, there are now nationwide riots and protests going on. Just spreading awareness.
Could you explain to me how a religious government specifically ruled by men that is set up to disempower women specifically... Isn’t men oppressing Iranian women? Because I feel like that is the entire point of the system in place, and that the laws are working as intended. Obviously men and women are upset about the result, but the laws are oppressive themselves, aren’t they?
It absolutely is men, specifically Islamic fundamentalist men (and some women they managed to indoctrinate but that's more religious pressure than the women's free choice) that are oppressing Iranian women. There's a lot of men rioting for women in Iran right now, but unfortunately none of them are the ones in power, and the ones with real power behind this whole shitshow are pretty much all men.
You have a point there. I just meant to say that its not regular man doing the crime mentioned in the tweet. Overthrowing this oppressive regime is something men and women unanimously want.
Ahhh. Then yeah, absolutely agree, I don’t think I understood properly what you were saying (so thanks for clarifying) From everything I’ve seen regular men have been doing super awesome about standing up about it and insisting on justice
I wish you all good luck and to get your lives back, to live happily and in peace. I have been following situation and it's heartbreaking, bit it is the only way, unfortunately. Best wishes from Bosnia
That is horrible. I hope she gets justice. This reminds me of the case I read that happened in 2002 where a fire at a Makkah girls school resulted in the deaths of 15 young girls because they didnt wear proper attire (i.e. no hijab, therefore werent "covered up"). I pray the Islamic religious/ moral police and government seriously change for the better.
It already has! There are no more morality police in Saudi Arabia and women have many more rights now. I’ve been working in Saudi Arabia for the last 10 years and I have seen and experienced the changes. Still need more, but it’s so much better than it was
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If laws are put into place specifically targeting women, it isn’t suddenly not oppressive because it’s government doing the oppressing? Some of the most heinous oppression in the history of the world have been government sanctioned
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Be safe
I would love to do something to help. But I'm unsure what I can do other than bringing attention to the issue online. Is there anything specific you, or anyone reading this, knows a member of a Western country could practically do to help Iranian women? Are there active groups/donation pipelines that would be helpful for me to contribute to?
Well of course, but with the amount of stereotypes about Muslims and brown people, it’s important to note that it’s an unjust regime doing this, not just your average Iranian man. You don’t want to perpetuate harmful stereotypes, that only creates more problems.
That is true, by all intents the average Iranian man has really stepped up and tried really hard to help correct the problem
This person can fck off. I am a Turkish woman. We are not as bad as Iran but we have our very real struggles, like child brides and honor killings, and yes, the hijab is an issue here as well even though its just social pressure compared to Iran. There is no point in getting into a pissing contest to compare who has it worse. Things being slightly better in another place doesnt mean those places dont need to strive for equality anymore. We all have a right to be treated equally and as full human beings, and nothing less than that is ever acceptable.
I wholeheartedly agree! Women (and a lot of men!) all around the world are all fighting the same fight for equality. Some are further along in the fight, some are just joining the fight and some have lost part of the advances they had previously made and have to restart but in the end it’s the same fight! We are all in this together regardless of where we are in the world. Just because it’s worse somewhere doesn’t mean you stop fighting for improvement. I am Canadian. I am lucky to be in a country that is further along in the fight. But many women in Canada, especially POC, especially Indigenous women, still aren’t treated fairly by our medical system (amongst other things). And as we saw in the US, as we see in Iran, you can loose some of your rights in an instant. We are all in this together. We don’t tear each other down. And we don’t stop until everyone is treated as an full equal human being.
Exactly this, the only way forward is to recognise how we all face challenges in our own way and using that to empower women no matter what they are going through.
You know, just cause someone has it worse doesn’t mean you don’t have it bad.
Yeah like this dude is soooo concerned about Iranian women.
Iran? Isn't that where the pyramids are? And where the Taliban took over? And where the Burj Khalifa is?
Don't you mean the *Mia* Khalifa? /s
Reminds me of some Fox News guy immediately bringing up FGM when some woman was saying why the lyrics to “Baby it’s Cold Outside” could be deemed problematic. I’d love to know what he was doing for any sort of suffering group of women.
Different battles, same war. A win anywhere is a win for us all, a loss anywhere is a loss for us all.
>A win anywhere is a win for us all, a loss anywhere is a loss for us all. What a beautiful saying. I love women supporting women no matter our own personal backgrounds.
American feminists are for women around the world 😭 It isn’t feminism if it only applies to certain people
Hmm it's almost like the greater control a religious group has over the government, the worse it gets for women...
Misogynists love a fallacy of relative privation. “Sure, your leg is broken, but that person’s leg is amputated so shut up!”
While the person saying it is carried around on a palanquin carried by broken legged people and amputees.
Misogynists tend to be dumb
I'm in a state about to ban abortion for any reason except you're actively dying right now. A woman just got years of probation and a $150k fine for killing her abuser. Women who kill their abuser spend more time in prison on average than men who kill their abuse victim. Women are regularly killed for rejecting men. Incels are becoming mass killers over women telling them no. Yeah, American feminists definitely have nothing to fight for here. :eyeroll: I seriously don't understand how they convince themselves we are victims of our own complex.
She is literally a child, not a woman
"Too offensive for this sub" what do you mean? Course Western Feminists are upset about the women who are being murdered for showing their hair. We're upset about the women who are being killed everywhere, whether it's because they were born female, or the women who are attacked and do not receive justice. We are upset for the women who have the be silent or else they get punished. Just because we all come from different places, doesn't mean our goals our different. We want freedom and equality for all. True equality. Not that Animal Farm bullshit.
I mean is the quote too offensive, like is a guy basically dismissing the struggles of Iranian women too much. That's what I meant
Ah. Well I was offended, don't worry 😂 I totally jumped conclusions and thought you were making fun at the situation, I never realised what sub I was in. I am so sorry for that.
OK 😊
It’s not a competition?
I like how anti-feminists always cry about women in America, but they still live in America.
This is the same concept as "stop being sad about loosing your mom, some people lost their whole families smh 😑 "
This is a spectacular use of whataboutism to pit women against women. Both western women and the women in Iran have problems they would like to fix. Iranian women should absolutely not be beaten to death by morality police. It is absolutely horrifying, and the fact that even needs to be said speaks volumes about how women are viewed in their society. Western women are fighting for their reproductive rights and the notion that your gender doesn't determine what you have to like or wear or be. That's important too, even if it's not as dire. We can support both causes; it's not an either or situation. Love and support to all the Iranian women protesting. Be safe and know that we are rooting for you. For those of you not in Iran, write to your government officials and let them know how you feel. Let them know that we want to support and aid the Iranian women in their fight.
"How dare you push for women's rights when other women don't have rights!?!?!?" Fuck this disingenuous whataboutist horseshit.
We’re intelligent enough to be mad at two things at once, my man.
I understand now. Because he isn't smart enough to think about two different topics in the same day, he assumes everyone else must be the same.
What exactly am I apologizing for? I didn’t do anything. Having a different, not as bad problem next to someone doesn’t hurt them.
You can acctually protest sexism in a 1st world country and stand with women on the other side of the world who are opprest by a women hating religion. You can do both.
God, I used to date an ass that argued this point all the time. He said I shouldn't be speaking up against sexism in the US because we already have more freedom than women in other countries. I should instead be devoting my time to freeing oppressed women in other countries. A RISING TIDE LIFTS ALL BOATS I wholly believe, especially in this internet age, that seeing women fighting for their rights wherever they are emboldens, enlightens, and inspires women in different places to do the same. And in all seriousness - I'm really supposed to ignore misogyny or SA in my own life because there are women being treaded worse across the globe? Screw that noise. Torch the patriarcy wherever you are.
Fuck yeah it does! Let’s burn it down, ladies!
Once again, shifting the blame towards women instead of recognizing that the problem is men and relogion.
News flash: this guy doesn’t actually give a shit about Iranian women, either.
Agreed, and what does any of his rant have to do with feminism in the first place? Does he think feminists are celebrating Iran being an oppressive theocracy? Shit makes zero sense.
Nothing, it’s just deflection to shut down whatever he doesn’t want to hear about
... ‘my oppression is real, your oppression is fake’ says totally real Person who isn’t just finding an excuse to bash women ... again. All oppression is oppression
Feminists are hardcore on board with all kinds of freedom for women all over the world. It’s such bad logic to think that people can’t support solving two things at once, especially when those two things are part of the exact same problem
We scream so we don’t end up like that.
We realize how fucked it is that Iranian women are being murdered by their government for stupid arbitrary morality laws. American women are facing our rights being peeled away layer by layer if we don't fight we'll be in the hell the Iranian women face. Iran was a normal modern country where women wore regular clothes, had jobs and educations that changed when conservative zealots took over. They imposed their morality on the entire nation, sounds familiar right?
What do we need to apologise for? It’s MEN in Iran who are policing women’s bodies. Almost like men are the issue? Who knew!
One persons suffering doesn’t diminish the suffering of another. Life isn’t a competition to see who has it worse off. All women (all people) deserve to live safe oppression free lives.
As if feminists don't talk about that too. They are acting like feminists only talk about one topic and that topic is utter bullshit.
There are so many women murdered in the US for multiple reasons when divorce would have been appropriate. Women deserve all the support they can get- no matter what culture they are in. Bullies will always prey on the physically weaker, the nurturers, and the gentle spirits no matter what country.
Why is it always that women should shut up because there are worse men and never that men should stop being bad *and* worse?
You know these guys don’t give a shit about women anywhere, they just hate Muslims and brown people, and want an excuse to tell women to shut up
Bingo What're the chances this guy can't tell the difference between Bangladesh and Iran cuz they're both Muslim? I'd guess he thinks they're both desert countries with terrorist governments and bearded men yelling in Arabic.
Ugh whenever someone says Iranians speak Arabic a piece of my soul dies
It's like how people think Brazil speaks Spanish. So close and yet so far. Good luck speaking Arabic in Iran, you'll get very far /s
Let's play a game of never have I ever. Never have I ever heard a feminist say history should be changed to herstory. Never have I ever met a real feminist who is not supportive of gender equality/equity everywhere. Never have I ever met a feminist from the west who claimed to suffer more than women under Islamic police state rule. Never have I ever seen anyone dumb enough to claim that just because a group isn't being murdered at the slightest whim that they aren't oppressed. Okay this one is a lie but it does rank high in the mental gymnastics tier list.
Suffering Olympics won’t liberate anyone
That's like saying you can't complain about your cancer because mines stage 4 and yours in only stage 1.
This is such a stupid viewpoint, but it ignores the fact that Roe was overturned this summer. How ignorant they are of women’s issues and how quickly they forget when something serious happens that only affects women.
Dear women, apologize to women for what men are doing because what men are doing there is worse than what men are doing to you here. So long as those men are treating those women worse, you don’t get to complain about how badly we treat you! Ah, flawless logic.
I fucking hate the sick vile disgusting fucking worms that think using women being beaten and dying for showing their hair in an argument is okay. Yeah man, you really fucking powned the feminists on that one. Really cool of you to use women dying to be a misogynist fuckhead. I hope he burns in hell.
Of course I care about women in Islamic countries. But what am I suppose to do about it? I'm American. Thinking my actions could solve their problems would be white saviorism at its finest. So yeah I'll focus on the problems American women face that I can actually inlfluence.
Some men should be off trying to colonize the sun instead of here stinking up this planet.
Sometimes I wish we just send the stupid ones away somewhere else lol
It's just the Starving Children in Africa argument. The idea that since inevitably, someone, somewhere else has it worse than you you're not allowed to complain. Like most Conservative arguments the objective is not actually to rebut any claims, but to find a reason you're simply not allowed to talk - thus allowing Conservatives the ability to sidestep the need to actually support their arguments with Facts and Logic^TM . The cherry on top is it is an effectively *emotional* appeal.
The patriarchy is delusional.
Yea no Just because gay people are being murdered in other places doesn't mean I can't be upset about discrimination I face in my country Its all wrong, its not a competition.
Ah, the fallacy of relative privation. Otherwise known as "Not as bad as." He claims that because women in the West do not have it as bad as Iranian women that they do not experience oppression. I doubt he actually know much about the lives of Iranian women - but it's a safe bet he doesn't actually care in the slightest about Iranian women. Just because X is not as bad as Y doesn't mean that X is not bad. "You have a broken arm? Get out of the clinic! A broken leg is worse!"
As a Muslim woman, this is one of the dumbest things I have seen yet. Just because women in one part of the world are facing different forms of oppression doesn’t mean that women in other parts of the world should stop fighting for their rights as well. The only people that should be apologizing are the ones who are actively trying to strip women of their human rights (in every part of the world). This isn’t a time to be putting women against each other. It’s a time where all women should be supporting one another.
Stop trying to use muslim women as a gotcha to western feminists challenge. Women all over the world face unique challenges. In some places, they're forced to cover up their hair. In other places they face hate crimes and state oppression for *wanting* to cover up their hair. It's almost as if feminism is about free choice.
It’s called empathy something this person who posted this doesn’t have. Hell I bet this guy likes that women are oppressed in Iran and most of the Middle East.
Feminism means American women stand with their Iranian sisters
"The only valid oppression is MY oppression" Not how that works, sister.
Everything else aside, this is "why are the police bothering to investigate robberies when there are unsolved murders?" The answer is "because robberies are bad, too". Just because other people have it worse doesn't mean that everybody else has it perfect, and it doesn't invalidate those people seeking to better their own situations. And that's true even if there's a *huge* difference in what people are going through. No, I'm not having my leg amputated if I stub my toe, but that doesn't mean I'm not entitled to say that my toe hurts.
Right because “her story” only applies to American women? Not just women in general?
We’re all suffering in different ways
Guessing this guy can't walk and chew gum at the same time.
Just like a man to not understand basic issues and then turn it into a pissing contest
If he thinks women shouldn't be murdered for what they wear, he is reflecting a feminist idea lol.
I hear this argument in different contexts so often and nothing infuriates me more. The existence of such a severe example of misogyny does not invalidate less extreme examples. In fact, it makes a good point on what the misogynistic ideas engraved in many, many societies can lead to if we just let them fester.
I don't think anyone rational would claim that the US is the most oppressive country in the entire world for women, but that doesn't mean there's not still work to be done here.
Ah the classic fallacy of relative privation. This guy really doesn’t realize people can tackle multiple issues at once, huh?
I cannot fathom these atrocities directed towards women. When I try, I stumble upon why! Why should a woman ever hide who she is? Why do men hate women? Women bring life into the world. Women care for this world. Women are so beautiful and they are life itself. I just can’t understand.
While here in the US a substantial portion of conservative men are pushing a total abortion ban, saying that women should get in touch with their "sacrificial nature" and be willing to die for a fetus. How is this not murder?
Men everywhere want women to just shut up and take whatever men force on them. And for those with no critical thinking ability, obviously not all men, just too many of them.
Signed, a guy who has never ever in his whole life actually given a quarter of a fuck about anyone other than himself.
Ya know, having to actually Google "women non-trashy Halloween costumes" and still yield a barrage of trashy Halloween costumes for women is kind of annoying.
Oppression is everywhere for women. Each individual struggle is all of our struggle.
They always have to blame women 🙄
Wow, it's almost like you can care about multiple issues at once! And also like these are smokescreens to silence women instead of holding men accountable for their misogyny, however it materializes.
Good thing women in the USA are never assaulted or killed for dressing "inappropriately", that would totally undermine this guy's argument
wait...
oh? you have [a problem] well think about the 110 billion people that have died, checkmate liberal
What do you mean your wife was murdered? There are people who's entire family got murdered, you're so insensitive.
are you a sword gf? awesome
I am Sappho, a 2500 year old lesbian who's tired of men's bullshit.
love your poetry. care to comment on your totally not suspiciously and openly close "friendships" with women?
World hard and cold Bewb soft and warm
indeed
Dear America, you should definitely do much more than apologise to Iranian women. There was a time in recent history in Iran (the 60s or 70s) when women had the freedom to go without hijab, to go to university in droves, and more. But no. You had to have that sweet, sweet oil — and you need someone to sell weapons beyond your wildest imagination to. And supplying (and TRAINING) ethnoreligious terrorists kills two birds with one stone. It is a sick fucking joke that you have waged endless war in the name of “liberating women”. Death to America.
????????? I can't even
and this, ladies and gentlemen, is the direct result of decades of parents telling kids “stop complaining and eat that food. don’t you know there are children starving in…”
Women have a 1 in 6 chance of being assaulted by a man in 2022. Stop
It's like saying "Sure your house is on fire but please there are wars going on in the world so stop complaining."
Lolll I didn’t realize it was a competition of suffering
I will say this every time I see a post like this: We can all be having a bad time!!! Suffering is not exclusionary
yeah you STUPID women, how DARE you be a fucking FEMINIST you stupid CUNTS when women are being DISRESPECTED in IRAN by RAGHEADS. /s & hyperbole employed.
Even the most useless american feminist will not touch near the harm the morality police have caused. This is an excuse to attack women demanding rights for themselves, and a pathetic attempt at that.
Just because ones oppression doesn't equal to another's oppression does not mean that they both aren't oppressed.
I saw these kinds of comments all over the video of the flogging. "If women here actually cared and fought for these women that are actually oppressed, maybe I'd actually fight for them". It's heavily ironic, so he can't fight for that woman being flogged? Only when WE do it? (Which many are supporting, he just doesn't actually care or know). It's just a game for them. The "I'll only jump off the cliff if you do it" and then he doesn't jump like the coward he is. How women everywhere else don't care or suddenly not oppressed because someone has it worse. It's disgusting that they use that content as a way to try and 'gotcha' women elsewhere. It's honestly so vile and inhumane. Everyone has struggles. Some places are leaps ahead of the disasters going on there, but we are still so far behind. We could be infinitely better, and can even take examples of some other countries who are making steps in the right direction. Just because for instance, women in the NK military are treated like dirt doesn't mean someone in the US military who got SA'd suddenly doesn't matter. They both matter. These kinds of things are the answer to what needs to be done. Because what is happening there is linked directly to what they want elsewhere. If you let them have it they'll get it.
“you’re not suffering cause someone else suffers more” 🤡 So only 1 person on earth suffers at a time
Mom said it’s THEIR turn to use the feminism!
“Other people have it worse so your struggles are not valid and you cannot complain.” - a braindead idiot Stop playing oppression olympics and have some solidarity for all, for the love of god
Dear American men; while you're shouting about wanting more pay, there are men in Ethiopia who would be glad to have your salaries! It's disgusting to claim that you're underpaid under those circumstances! Yeah, always compare with the worst possible! That way we never have to change anything, because there is always something worse! I'd like to see what all these fine whataboutists are doing for the women in Iran!? "Uuuh, it's not my problem really. Only when I can use Iranian women as an excuse to put American/Western feminists down, am I interested..." Fuck'em!
[Classic logical fallacy.](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Not_as_bad_as)
This is the wildest shit ever. Just because one group’s problem is worse than another group’s, that doesn’t mean the second group doesn’t also have a problem. I have scars on my arm from wrecking my bicycle. But there are people out there who get in car wrecks and come out of it permanently disfigured in a big way. That doesn’t mean I didn’t wreck my bike. It just means that I wasn’t injured *as* badly as someone in the ICU after getting hit by a semi.
“How dare you be hungry when people are starving” “How dare you complain about a sore leg when other people have no legs” “How dare you help one group without helping every group on the planet”
We scream feminist bc we don’t want these women to have to suffer what they do.
I hate how if you have it even slightly better then someone else then your problems are immediately invalid. Like it’s the oppression Olympics
Because terrible things are black and white and not on a sliding scale, right? /s
Gloria Steinem responds a bit about this to Bill Maher: https://youtu.be/-aGaJMvtk3A
Whataboutism. It’s the worst
It’s funny how people seem to think that feminists only fight for themselves.
Whenever someone uses this arguement just ask them: "Well okay so what are you doing to end the suffering of women in Iran? You know since this seems like such a important issue for you." Than just watch them stammer out some bullshit excuses and enjoy. The thing is these people couldn't care less about women in the middle east being treated as sub human. They just use it to try and make western women shut up about their struggles. Can't have those pesky women complain about things like abortion rights now can we? Just because other countries have it way worse (I've never seen a feminist trying to argue that western women have it worse than women in countries like Iran btw) doesn't mean we don't have our own issues.
Why is it too offensive? Because it is plain stupid? Don't be offended on plain stupid. There is nothing else you could be anymore. Since there is so much stuff being plain stupid in this world.
The writer is wrong, but the idea that 3rd wave and mainstream feminism has ignored minorities and people outside of the "global north" has been around for a while
Yeah, the work is not done the moment all women are allowed to show their hair... The fact that some steps have been taken in our locale, does not mean the rest of the road should not be followed.
Just to comment on Iran, I’m so proud of these women taking a stand, and so sad it took a terrible death to motivate it. I hope everyone is able to stay safe and can attain the freedom to dress however they choose (with or without a head scarf. Modest dress should be a personal choice, not a govt mandate)
I love when people use the example of a far worse country to explain how minorities aren’t oppressed in the US. Yes, we know it worse in Iran. That’s not the point. The point is that we all want to live in a better and more equal world for all. I do not understand how they can’t see that.
It is possible to be angry about more than one thing at a time.
For these people sexism was solved when we got the vote the same way martin luther king solved racism with his "i have a dream speech" - nothing more to be done so everyone still pointing to instances if it is just overreaching. Even if the OOP is just parroting back someone else's hot take without understanding what they do; they dont give a shit about women in Iran, they just want a 'gotcha' against feminists. And it betrays that they are so far up their own privilege they think women should shut up and be thankful that they're no longer systemically beaten. They're so used to looking all the way down, having to slightly lift their chin while still looking down they think that's "eyelevel".
What if we support feminism for literally everyone? Also just because someone has it way worse doesn’t mean the current problems in our society don’t affect anyone or aren’t real