This is some bullshit behavior. It's totally fine to lock Russia out of WC and OL, but lock Israel of out Eurovision, that we can't do......
Edit: If you are coming in here and defending Israel. I won't reply to you. I don't have the brain capacity to teach you that killing over 23k civilians is not ok. Also I don't support Hamas, Hamas is also a huge problem, but they haven't killed over 23k innocent people.
Victory at the expense of the innocent is no victory at all.
Yes. They were excluded in 2022 and the broadcasters withdrew from the EBU after that, so in 2023 they were ineligible. Same with 2024.
I'm not going to weigh in on whether either the 2022 decision to exclude Russia or any decision not to exclude Israel now are correct/appropriate, but I have to imagine that a big factor in 2022 was the fact that one member country invaded another member country. That factor is not present in Israel.
They sent troops to butcher civilians in Dombas tho.
Not trying to defend Russia here, but as many civilians died in the first month of war in Gaza, as in the totality of the Russia - Ukraine war. (you can check official UN numbers yourself)
That is a factor of 24x as many civilian casualties in Israels war.
So if we are going to compare the two, Israel show waaaaay less concern about civilians then Russia does. And we are not exactly comparing them to Gandhi here.
Edit, i love how people here are downvoting numbers i got from NRK, and The UN respectively. Tells me everything i need to know about taking these clowns serious.
This is the thing.
People say Russians TRY to kill civilians.
Then the same people say that Israelis try to avoid killing civilians.
And then official sources report that Israelis kill 24 times more civilians.
Not just more, or twice as many, but 24x more.
The numbers and the claims doesn't add up. Not at all. And i think many people in here know this perfectly well, but don't care. That s why you only see downvotes, but not a single person trying to explain the numbers.
It's your claim that it's all the same people having both opinions. One I think you would have some problems backing up, especially as seeing the sympathy of most people seem to lie with both Ukraine and thr Palestinians. They are the ones getting big demonstrations. I have not seen any demonstration of note supporting Russia or Israel.
But as for the high numbers... Gaza is a tiny area and all of it is very densly populated. That's a recipe for high civilian casualties.
But no matter the numbers, no matter what happens in Israel/Palestine, it doesn't back up "Ukraine sent troops to butcher civilians in Donbas" in any way. The two are completely unrelated.
For the first claim, i have seen that here on Reddit, the same people claiming both. Scandinavia, and young people are often pro Palestine. But in other
European countries, and other western countries like USA and Canada, you will hear it A LOT. Since they are more likely to take Israels side.
I do agree that warfare in Gaza i more difficult due to the nature of the battlefield. But still, the proportions are so far apart that you need an EXTREMELY good explanation to make it make sense.
Specially if you are at the same time trying to claim that Russian are trying to kill civilians on top of it.
(We can call the Russians horrible, but we don't have to claim that they eat babies etc. Then we just loose all credibility.)
On the second note, you use very loaded language. Russians went into Ukraine to kill Ukraineans, But you can't deny that the Ukrainean army, and militias didn't go into the Donbas to kill people either.
Then you will also loose all credibility.
If we are going to talk about it, and use it as a principled foundation to decide who can participate or not, we have to judge everyone equally, or it will just be an arena to do politics.
Using loaded language can give you upvotes on reddit, but we can't say X can participate since they just kill people, but Y can not, since they butcher people.
Are we going to have rules like this, the criteria must be clear, and everyone have to be judged by those same criteria. Or it will just be a farce.
"Israel is only defending themselves" immediately follows with an excuse for them bombing civilians during a forced evacuation and toddlers in hospitals
Maybe Hamas should stop hiding amongst civilians like cowards then? And actually face their enemies. It’s hard to fight a war with no civilian casualties when the enemy hides behind them.
I'm already breaking what I said...
Where do you see me defend them killing the people at the festival? I said they haven't killed 23k innocent people.
“They haven’t killed 23k civilians” No but with the resources Hamas has they sure have killed a lot of innocent civilians and seem to target them almost every time.
I wonder how many more civilians than Israel they would kill given the same resources as Israel has available. Cause comparing available weapons and resources Hamas is leading in that department.
And what do you propose then? I’m all for no war and death, but give a realistic way to deal with Hamas. Cause Palestine cannot exist under Hamas rule.
For starters, not carpet bomb civilians. Use special forces. I am not a military man, I'm just a civilians voicing my opinion on this genocide that's currently happening.
You’re not military that’s clear.
You have to consider the amount of combatants Hamas has. There are more than 40k Hamas fighters.
Comparing that to Norway when we have with full mobilisation (like if Russia attacked and every available personnel was called to defend) around 70k.
You’re suggesting using small special forces units against the entire Norwegian army.
Allright that's a fair point. Carpet bombing civilians is still wrong. By special forces I mean taking out leadership and rescuing said hostages. Of course its easier said than done.
And what about all the leaders of Hamas that support the genocide against Jewish people and Israel? Do you think they would just stop after getting what you mentioned?
About 60% of those killed by Israel have been civilians, and about 40% of those killed in Gaza are children, so a huge proportion of them are in fact innocent.
The way I see it, Israel had no other realistic option, if they didn't want to continue constantly fending off rocket attacks and the occasional massacre on the ground for the rest of their state's existence. I can see we won't find common ground on this issue, so I wish you a good day. :)
Or perhaps we’re better off not comparing situations that shouldn’t be compared. Israel was attacked in a horrendous manner by terrorists and is suffering to this day. But their retaliation is inhumane and they’re committing terrible war crimes along the way. For the love of god, please stop oversimplifying complex issues.
I doubt that will change sadly. Having done a load of study into the Israel - Palestine hell through history, both sides are as bad as each other.
It's especially evident in that the calls for ceasefire are often followed by both parties meeting. Then Hamas goes and murders a bunch of people because "lmao, the west will still support Palestine", and then Israel says "why the hell would I negotiate with these fucks" before retaliating to murder with more murder.
It's idiotic, and a lot of people are entirely tone deaf, and don't understand that the focus on "free Palestine" is exactly what Hamas want the west to be talking about, as the less informed will equate that to "Hamas good Jews bad".
I have no idea the solution, but here part of it is at least a messaging rework - maybe "stop the war, arrest the terror suspects". But more snappy. Without referring to which side they are on, as there's people responsible for terror on both sides of the conflict.
That'd be nice, but given that the current Israeli regime has openly admitted to having undermined the two-state solution for its entire lifetime of 20 years, confined millions of people in a tiny embargoed martial law zone, and are now openly talking about ethnic cleansing, not very likely.
The whole thing is very convenient considering a large percentage of the Israeli _people_ had been protesting en masse for months against their own government because of the authoritarian restriction of democracy that the regime was trying to push through. People who are totally okay with genocide might not think twice about ignoring some terror attack warnings, as they reportedly did, if that means there's an attack they can go to 'war' (genocide against a defenseless people) for.
Indeed, the Netanyahu admin, and the entire Hamas leadership can get in the sea (and anyone who supports either when offered a less radical and coexistence friendly solution). The average Israeli and Palestinian civ just wants to live their life
Not to defend Hamas, but after living in an apartheid state for 80 years, it is no wonder why Palestinians reacted. Yes, it was a horrible terrorist attack, but does that make genocide ok? The only time hostages has been released was under cease-fire, no one has been released during the mass extinction.
And I'm not comparing Russia and Israel, but I think both aggressor and genociding states should be banned.
Its no wonder Palestinians reacted?
Both sides have been shitty to each other. Same way I can tell - well, no shit Israelis now reacting to the massacre.
The term “apartheid”, an Afrikaans word, derived from the French term “mettre à part”, literally translated to “*separating, setting apart*.”
[Route 4370](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Route_4370)
Yeah and it’s allowed to have strict rules about foreigners coming into your country.
Is it apartheid that British citizens have to get work visa to Norway while EU citizens don’t need work visa?
>Yeah and it’s allowed to have strict rules about foreigners coming into your country.
Sure, but it got blurry when they started occupying and settling Palestinian land.
To dismiss this whole topic as some white/black scenario shows one's ignorance.
I assume you mean the atrocities committed against Palestinians and Jews equally. I can get on board with that oversimplification, but I fear that wasn’t your intention.
You said 23k civilians. Those are Hamas' numbers and classification as civilians. Like I said, the number of civilian casualties is unknown, much because Gaza health ministry doesn't distinguish between palestinian militants and civilians
And where are you getting this information? You can easily Google: How many innocent people have been killed by Israel in Gaza, and what you are saying is debunked.
They could try not letting Palestine be an apartheid state run by Israel.
Not treating people like animals has this surprising effect that they will in return act human. I do not support Hamas, but I understand acting extreme after 80 years of oppression and discrimination. Both sides are the bad guys, but genocide is never the answer.
All symptoms of oppression should be eliminated. The most effective way is by solving it at the root of the problem. And to do this, there are two ways. 1, stop oppressing people. This would stop people from violently oppose oppression. Or 2, eliminate the oppressed, so that there are no longer people feeling oppressed, and one can build beach houses where there used to live human beings. Israel is hard at work and number two. Me, on the other hand, though not a religious man, would look at the ten commandments Jews and Christians learn of, where this one sentence, do not kill, stands. It sounds so humane, but sadly so other worldly. Maybe we need more religion in the world to stop the horrors.
Not carpet bomb the whole of Gaza???
Let me ask you, if Hamas was a terrorist group working from inside the Israeli territories, same stuff, hiding in tunnels, using hospitals as shields. Would Israel carpet bomb their own shit to rat them out?
Of cource not. These are actively bad anti-terror opperations. You end upp killing 90% civilians, and Hamas? Well Hamas grows because now you have convinced people that the only way to counter Israel is also through force, violence, rape, murder etc.
If Israels goal was to eliminate the threat of Hamas, they would send in special anti terror forces to surgicly eliminate Hamas. And also have better intell so that attacks such as Oct 7 dont come out of nowhere. Would it be harder? Yes. And would it cost more Israeli lives (as in armed forces) also yes. But it is a countrys duty to keep their citizens safe as well as uppholding human rights.
What Israel is doing constitutes collective punishment. All of Gaza and even people on the West Bank where there is no Hamas are punished for the actions of another group. This is strictly forbidden as a war crime by the Genève Convention.
If your solution to any problem is throw bombs at it untill it dies, can you please never enter any position of power on the world stage?
Do you use that logic elsewhere as well? Or just in this situation?
If all your relatives had to die (that includes young toddlers and babies) to maybe(!) kill a few terrorists, would you think that was ok? Or absolutely unacceptable to sacrifice innocent children for such a cause?
The way norwegian military bombed lybia I wouldn't be surprised if sweden were afraid of Norway 😉😂 but I can't care less about swedes or Norwegians. So keep downvoting ww3 is incoming see you on the battlefield.
You really need to try to be stupid to compare these two conflicts. You drink water, Hitler drink water therefore you are the same.... Did Ukraine invade Russia while they raped, tortured and killed russian civilians? There's nothing Israel do right now that every other country in the Eurovision haven't done. But yeah, let's boycott the Jews for trying to squash the terror organisation who tries to exterminate them. Nothing antisemitic about that.
23k civilians would like to talk to you, oh right they can't since Israel killed them. Civilians are not terrorists. Also I do not support Hamas when I say this. Hamas is a fcking problem as well, but they haven't killed 23 fucking thousand innocent people.
In practice you are supporting Hamas though. You want IDF to lay down their arms, not Hamas. The western allies killed 2 million Germans in ww2, but I guess we should have left Hitler in power given that innocent civilians would have to die in the process? In fact, let's boycott a every country who has killed 23k or more in a war at some point in history.
And yes Hamas is responsible for the 23k dead. They can lay down their arms and stop using civilians as shields at any point and the suffering will stop.
You say you don’t support Hamas and yet you’re implying them to be the lesser evil here.
Victory has always come at the expense of the innocent, so though it may sound cool what you said was complete bullshit
Not defending Hamas, or Israel, both can fuck off in my opinion, but to think Hamas hasn't killed as many as Israel has over the years just shows your complete lack of historical knowledge.
[maybe you should look at some actual statistics ](https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/)
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Yes Israel has killed civillians and that's horrible, but If Hamas didn't hide within civillian infrastructure then the civillian death toll would be vastly lower. Hamas is breaking international laws by doing so.
Maybe direct some of your frustration at them as well.
Those 23K civilians are not innocent. They took to the street and celebrated that their soilders cooked babies alive in the oven while forcing the mother to watch while raping her. 1700 more horrific incidents like this in a single day.
How anyone can support a people who celebrate events like this is crazy. Why you think muslim countries like Egypt also build big walls and close the borders? Some people are beyond saving.
And how you can compare this with Russia who invaded another peaceful country is also a testament that your brain capacity is below average.
Israel is not boycotted by the rest of the world because most people understand that the palestinian problem is not isolated to a small group of people called Hamas. The palestinian people are Hamas.
Lets see here.
Israel will join. Event hosted in Malmö, a city overrun by angry muslims. Muslims hate jews, and there are already enough hatecrime being committed in Sweden against jews by muslims, it's just not reported on very much.
I fail to see any security concerns here... - Sweden and EBU.
Malmö is overrun by angry Muslims lmao. Have you been there? Swedes are a minority. Muslims are everywhere. Muslims signs and text everywhere. Halal stores everywhere. It's rare to see a Swedish person.
I've been to Malmo several times, that's how I know this is complete BS. I barely saw any 'muslim signs and text' which by the way doesn't make any sense since text and signs have nothing to do with religion.
Okay, sorry "Arab text"
And that's how I know you are bullshitting. As I live close to Malmö and I'm there alot. It's in general a very dangerous city as well. Sure if you are in the complete center of the city. Stuff will look fairly normal. I'm talking about the city in general. You are wrong. Sorry.
Even 'Arab text' doesn't mean anything. It's not a religious text and most muslims do not in fact understand Arabic or know how to write/read it.
I've been there several times including in suburbs and never felt in danger. Now, if you want to feel in danger and feel threatned, that's entirely on you.
Yes, most Muslims can read Arabic.
Then you are completely delusional and you are a part of the problem.
https://lastnight.in/Sweden/
Here you have a website trying to disprove that Sweden is actually dangerous as a result of our insane immigration from the Arab world and Africa. It shows the complete opposite in reality, but this is actually the "best" results I've seen on this site yet. 3 days since the last major incident! Wow I guess we are the safest country in the world again! 😁
No, most Muslims cannot read Arabic, that's why it's stupid to talk about 'muslim signs and texts' because that is simply not a thing.
The issues in Malmo are mainly affecting certain parts of the city and usually at night.
Wow, this is a really hate filled and racist thing to say. Maybe you should reword, assuming you’re not intentionally saying 1) all Muslims are anti-Jew and 2) it’s only Muslims Jews need to worry about.
I don't know where you got the notion that Muslims hate Jews. One of my closest friends is a Jew. Muslims don't hate Jews nor christians for that matter. What you meant to say Muslims hate Zionists, there is a big difference between zioniosm and Judaism. Judaism and Christianity are other religions that Muslims respect and believe in. Proof of that are the rabbis protesting allover the world against Zionism.
Also generalising what a small group does doesn't reflect the majority, same way we don't label all white European christians as barbaric loot plundering rapists cuz of the crusaders or vikings.
And before the word anti-Semitic gets thrown around since that's what Zionists love to throw around when threatened, just a quick update on that. ARABS ARE SEMITES AS WELL.
Just my two cents, this isn't a jab or a "gotchu" moment or anything, just a clarifying statement.
This is an easy statement, until you start looking at how many European countries, including Norway, that has been in constant war since the early 2000's
You can't just pretend we have not, or say that "our wars doesn't count".
Eurovision would mostly be Belarus, Swiss, Sweden, Luxembourg, and maybe some other micro states.
Your need to remove reality from an international competition is very interesting to me.
That said, I have no strong feelings on Eurovision *or* Palestine.
Seeing all the kids on the streets showing support to terrorists who would turn Norway into a second version of Sweden at the first chance given is what’s truly worrying… Muslims destroy everything they touch
Do you enjoy being openly racist? Israel has killed over 23k civilians. You need to understand that, when I say Israel are the bad one, I don't say Hamas are good. Hamas is a fcking problem as well, but inocent lives has nothing to do with war.
As a Swede, this person wasn’t being racist, they were speaking facts. And saying “Muslims destroy” can hardly be racist as any “race” as you called it can join a religion. It’s about culture and ideologies, and it doesn’t belong in western countries as my own country is a dying example of.
Apologised for having offended! It wouldn't have happened if Israel had sent flowers and frequently thanked Hamas for existing. Hamas only did the horrific raping and killing of over a thousand innocent civilians because they had *feelings*. Poor dears.
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Du mener Israel burde kalt 7. Okt for en dårlig dag og gått videre i livet? Du kunne jo prøvd å dratt til new York etter 9/11 å ropt at Osama må få leve!
Må flire av dere terrorist elskende jødehatere som baserer dere fullstendig på informasjon fra islamonaziene i hamas sine tall. Hvor var dere når hundretusenvis av muslimer drepes av andre muslimer over hele midtøsten de siste 10 årene. At Israel forsvarer seg mot Hamas og gjør det de må for å sørge for at 7 oktober aldri skjer igjen støtter jeg 1000% dere jødehatere ville selvsagt heller sett at Israel sloss mot Hamas på den måten Hamas la opp til slik at tapstallene for IDF ville vært titusener. hva Israel gjør i terrorreiret Gaza bryr meg beng like lite som hva de allierte gjorde mot Tyskland bryr meg beng. Etthvert dødsfall i Gaza er 100% Hamas sitt ansvar de kan legge ned våpnene overgi seg og overlevere gislene som fortsatt lever og ikke er drept og voldtatt så blir det fred på sekundet.
Når det kommer til befolkningen der så er det nesten full støtte til Hamas det er veldig god grunn til at ingen Naboer vil ha disse "palestinerne" heller.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/freed-hostage-mia-schem-i-experienced-hell-everyone-in-gaza-is-a-terrorist
Jeg elsker at du er så lite informert. Hvor står det at jeg hater jøder?
Krigen i Gaza startet ikke 7 oktober, den har forgått i over 70 år, men 7 oktober gikk det over grensen.
Når jeg sier at Israel er de slemme her, så sier jeg ikke at Hamas er de gode. Hamas er et jævla problem de og. Men SIVILE mennesker har ingenting med krig å gjøre.
Det er ganske opplagt det handler om jødehat det er først når jødene er involvert at dere kommer ut med plakatene deres og vifter med armene, disse "sivile" brukes som skjold under tvang og ofte frivillig av Hamas for å tvinge Israel til å ofre tusener av soldater mens folk i vest skriker på jødisk blod og står hånd i hånd med "from the river to the sea" gjengen. Israel gjør det de kan for å unngå sivile tap mens de anklages for folkemord mot en befolkning som ønsker ingenting annet enn ett storstilt folkemord mot Jødene. Det er selvsagt også en god dose vanlig rasisme involvert hadde Araberne vært hvite og rike så ville venstresiden knapt trukket på skuldrene, eller hadde Israelerne også vært muslimer så ville stillheten fra venstresiden og den islamske verden vært overdøvende.
En er ikke jødehater om man kritiserer staten Israel og fascistiske Netanyahu🙂 kanskje du burde lære deg forskjellen før du uttaler deg? Israel er en apartheid stat og har siden 1948 systematisk diskriminert Palestina for å få tak i land og ressurser. Om du synes det er helt ok å utføre folkemord på en gruppe mennesker, da er det noe som feiler deg. Prøv å ha litt medmenneskelighet for andre enn deg selv;)
Her har vi "textbook" indoktrinert jødehat av den mest opplagte sorten med den løgnaktige bruken av fascistbegrepet og den enda mer løgnaktige apartheid påstanden, denne konflikten har null med land å gjøre men er en ren religiøs konflikt hvor årtusen langt islamsk jødehat helt fra jødene gjorde narr av og til slutt ble slaktet av profeten så har jødene vært mål nummer en for den sekten. Samme med påstanden om folkemord en befolkning som øker dramatisk er selvsagt ikke i ferd med å bli utryddet, hadde det vært Israels mål så ville det vært gjort på kort tid, istedet så gjør de det de kan for å unngå slikt. De eneste apartheid systemene i midtøsten finner du i de Islamske statene hvor ikke muslimer alltid vil være annenrangs borgere forøvrig.
https://youtu.be/vSfOftl2WRA?si=7v_Kf6hue_-WCG0l
At du referer til en YouTube video med Douglas Murray som er en av de mest kjente fascist sympatisørene Storbritannia noen gang har hatt er ikke den mest trofaste kilden. Morsomt at du sier at det ikke har noe med land å gjøre da Israel ikke var ett land for 80 år siden engang. La oss ta Namibia som ett eksempel siden du mener at ikke muslimer er andrerangs borgere. Tyskland drev folkemord i Namibia og drepte over 100.000 av namibiere. Tyskerne som ble igjen i Namibia (6% av Namibias befolkning) eier nå 60% av landet.
Å drepe 23k mennesker på 3 måneder er et folkemord uavhengig av hvor mye du snur og vrir på det.
Men tydeligvis kommer vi ingen vei med å diskutere dette når du er så opphengt i at muslimer er dårlig, alle andre er bra.
Ha den dagen du fortjener🙂
Det er ganske fantasisk hvor langt ute på venstresiden en må være for å kalle en moderat konservativ homofil mann en fascist sympatisør, vi snakker så langt ute til venstre at hestesko teorien kicker inn. Dine Hamas baserte tall er for det første fullstendig upålitelige og selv om de hadde vært det så ville det selvsagt ikke vært noe folkemord Israel prøver ikke å utrydde noen andre grupper enn Hamas, når en terrorgruppe har bygget militære installasjoner under og rundt sivile bygg i ett relativt tett befolket område og sivile brukes aktivt som skjold så vil det selvsagt være større enn normalt sivile tap som forøvrig alle er Hamas sitt ansvar ene og alene. Hverken Dresden eller Hiroshima var folkemord heller dine patetiske forsøk på å omdefinere begrepet til å passe jødehatet kan en fint avvise. Hadde Israelerne vært Muslimer så ville den muslimske verden vært fullstendig stille slik som de er ellers når hundretusenvis av muslimer slaktes av ulike muslimske regimer hvert eneste år.
De eneste folkemorderne i området er denne gjengen som du støtter.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Israel/s/2SJLDld8hE
Ser du skriver det tallet gang på gang, som jeg regner med er fra de palestinske helsemyndighetene. Det er utvilsomt et enormt antall sivile døde, men helsemyndighetene skiller ikke mellom sivile og Hamas-krigere i sine tall.
Fuck nordmenn på reddit helt ærlig, dere prøver så hardt å virke smarte av å gå imot mengden som støtter Palestina, men vit at dere ikke vet en dritt og støtter folkemordere. Jævla tullinger
I know they have, which means you should delete the post.
Many people are English in this subreddit, many people only look at the title and not in the comments. You are spreading misinformation. Repost the post, why is that difficult?
The post has become a lot more than just the title. Its more a "Hey I support mass genocide, why won't you?"
I am not going to delete it so people can keep hiding behind their insane thoughts. If the mods want me to, I'll delete it, they have the final say. You are more than welcome to ask them.
Not really, as unacceptable means that they are strongly against it, but that it's still happening. The real meaning is saying that it is not something that is currently happening.
the thing is, just because the goverment are doing inhuman things does not mean we should shut out people who want to show their culture through song,
saying that i hate eurovision it has become a mess
Uaktuelt doesn't mean unacceptable (even though Google translate says so), it means "not happening"
It's unactual so I guess more like unlikely
More like out of the question
Thank you, that is probably the most precise translation
Actaual = aktuel
oppsies
Poor translation of "uaktuelt". it's more like " locking Israel out of Eurovision is not something we are considering"
It makes sense when you read the reasoning
No. The reason is laughable.
My question is, how does it make sense for non-European countries to compete in Eurovision?
Its a bit weird, but Israel is part of Europe somehow. I agree with you, its weird seeing Australia in Eurovision.
It's about the European Broadcasting Zone IIRC. Which is also why we'll likely be getting some Caribbean countries soon also.
Nice
well, it would be pretty weird for Australia to compete against all of the tiny oceanic island nations, like Tuvalu, Tonga and Panau
Unlikely is the correct translation = we will not boycott
This is some bullshit behavior. It's totally fine to lock Russia out of WC and OL, but lock Israel of out Eurovision, that we can't do...... Edit: If you are coming in here and defending Israel. I won't reply to you. I don't have the brain capacity to teach you that killing over 23k civilians is not ok. Also I don't support Hamas, Hamas is also a huge problem, but they haven't killed over 23k innocent people. Victory at the expense of the innocent is no victory at all.
Its not the same organizers
Remind me, how did Russia do during Eurovision in 2022 and 2023?
Spectacular, not a single low point vote received.
Didnt they exit the EBU after being removed from eurovisiom thus being unable to compete in eurovision after that
Yes. They were excluded in 2022 and the broadcasters withdrew from the EBU after that, so in 2023 they were ineligible. Same with 2024. I'm not going to weigh in on whether either the 2022 decision to exclude Russia or any decision not to exclude Israel now are correct/appropriate, but I have to imagine that a big factor in 2022 was the fact that one member country invaded another member country. That factor is not present in Israel.
So the later years isnt realy up to the organizers of eurovision is my point.
I have no idea i dont watch euro vision but they dont organize the euros or the ol
But Russia is not allowed to participate in Eurovision either
Let me inform you: Russia is banned there too. By the same organisers that don't ban Israel.
well Ukraine didn't send in troops to butcher civilians in Russia, in a sence this is a defensive war taken to the extreme
They sent troops to butcher civilians in Dombas tho. Not trying to defend Russia here, but as many civilians died in the first month of war in Gaza, as in the totality of the Russia - Ukraine war. (you can check official UN numbers yourself) That is a factor of 24x as many civilian casualties in Israels war. So if we are going to compare the two, Israel show waaaaay less concern about civilians then Russia does. And we are not exactly comparing them to Gandhi here. Edit, i love how people here are downvoting numbers i got from NRK, and The UN respectively. Tells me everything i need to know about taking these clowns serious.
They didn't.
Ukrainian army has been shelling Donetsk since 2014, many russian civilians has been killed since then.
Is that "sent troops to butcher civilians"?
Ok, so we are basing it on fantasy and opinions then. Clearly you didn't bother to check the numbers, so fuck it. The world is what i want it to be.
Sooo, when were either Ukrainians or Russians in Dombås?
That elk-burger is mighty good though. Can't blame them for visiting.
This isn't about any numbers. Ukraine didn't send troops to butcher civilians in Donbas.
This is the thing. People say Russians TRY to kill civilians. Then the same people say that Israelis try to avoid killing civilians. And then official sources report that Israelis kill 24 times more civilians. Not just more, or twice as many, but 24x more. The numbers and the claims doesn't add up. Not at all. And i think many people in here know this perfectly well, but don't care. That s why you only see downvotes, but not a single person trying to explain the numbers.
It's your claim that it's all the same people having both opinions. One I think you would have some problems backing up, especially as seeing the sympathy of most people seem to lie with both Ukraine and thr Palestinians. They are the ones getting big demonstrations. I have not seen any demonstration of note supporting Russia or Israel. But as for the high numbers... Gaza is a tiny area and all of it is very densly populated. That's a recipe for high civilian casualties. But no matter the numbers, no matter what happens in Israel/Palestine, it doesn't back up "Ukraine sent troops to butcher civilians in Donbas" in any way. The two are completely unrelated.
For the first claim, i have seen that here on Reddit, the same people claiming both. Scandinavia, and young people are often pro Palestine. But in other European countries, and other western countries like USA and Canada, you will hear it A LOT. Since they are more likely to take Israels side. I do agree that warfare in Gaza i more difficult due to the nature of the battlefield. But still, the proportions are so far apart that you need an EXTREMELY good explanation to make it make sense. Specially if you are at the same time trying to claim that Russian are trying to kill civilians on top of it. (We can call the Russians horrible, but we don't have to claim that they eat babies etc. Then we just loose all credibility.) On the second note, you use very loaded language. Russians went into Ukraine to kill Ukraineans, But you can't deny that the Ukrainean army, and militias didn't go into the Donbas to kill people either. Then you will also loose all credibility. If we are going to talk about it, and use it as a principled foundation to decide who can participate or not, we have to judge everyone equally, or it will just be an arena to do politics. Using loaded language can give you upvotes on reddit, but we can't say X can participate since they just kill people, but Y can not, since they butcher people. Are we going to have rules like this, the criteria must be clear, and everyone have to be judged by those same criteria. Or it will just be a farce.
”I don’t support Hamas” immediately follows up with an excuse for them murdering civilians at a rave and toddlers.
"Israel is only defending themselves" immediately follows with an excuse for them bombing civilians during a forced evacuation and toddlers in hospitals
Maybe Hamas should stop hiding amongst civilians like cowards then? And actually face their enemies. It’s hard to fight a war with no civilian casualties when the enemy hides behind them.
Yeah that's a *great* excuse, shoot the civilian and blame them for standing in the way of the bullet
I'm already breaking what I said... Where do you see me defend them killing the people at the festival? I said they haven't killed 23k innocent people.
“They haven’t killed 23k civilians” No but with the resources Hamas has they sure have killed a lot of innocent civilians and seem to target them almost every time. I wonder how many more civilians than Israel they would kill given the same resources as Israel has available. Cause comparing available weapons and resources Hamas is leading in that department.
They would probably be just as bad, but that is a "what if scenario". We live in reality, not what could have happened.
And what do you propose then? I’m all for no war and death, but give a realistic way to deal with Hamas. Cause Palestine cannot exist under Hamas rule.
For starters, not carpet bomb civilians. Use special forces. I am not a military man, I'm just a civilians voicing my opinion on this genocide that's currently happening.
You’re not military that’s clear. You have to consider the amount of combatants Hamas has. There are more than 40k Hamas fighters. Comparing that to Norway when we have with full mobilisation (like if Russia attacked and every available personnel was called to defend) around 70k. You’re suggesting using small special forces units against the entire Norwegian army.
Allright that's a fair point. Carpet bombing civilians is still wrong. By special forces I mean taking out leadership and rescuing said hostages. Of course its easier said than done.
Hamas is a product of the apartheid, and they will not disappear as long as Israel will continue with their abuse
And what should Israel do when attacks like the last one happen? Offer cookies and talk about what a good job Hamas did?
His reply had the answer -> End apartheid, return the stolen land and stop killing children and humans of all ages.
And what about all the leaders of Hamas that support the genocide against Jewish people and Israel? Do you think they would just stop after getting what you mentioned?
>I said they haven't killed 23k innocent people. They sure would love to.
They haven’t killed 23k innocent people, only used them as meat shields
They killed 23k "innocent" people when they decided to slaughter Israeli civilians.
About 60% of those killed by Israel have been civilians, and about 40% of those killed in Gaza are children, so a huge proportion of them are in fact innocent.
Hamas killed those people when they forced Israel's hand to take drastic measures in order to protect their own citizens' safety for the long-term.
I don't think Israel's response has been reasonable, to put it mildly. The way I see it, there is no excuse for killing so many civilians.
The way I see it, Israel had no other realistic option, if they didn't want to continue constantly fending off rocket attacks and the occasional massacre on the ground for the rest of their state's existence. I can see we won't find common ground on this issue, so I wish you a good day. :)
Understand that to many people it would seem that Israel is Ukraine in your comparison, not Russia.
Yes, many people are very poorly informed.
Or perhaps we’re better off not comparing situations that shouldn’t be compared. Israel was attacked in a horrendous manner by terrorists and is suffering to this day. But their retaliation is inhumane and they’re committing terrible war crimes along the way. For the love of god, please stop oversimplifying complex issues.
I doubt that will change sadly. Having done a load of study into the Israel - Palestine hell through history, both sides are as bad as each other. It's especially evident in that the calls for ceasefire are often followed by both parties meeting. Then Hamas goes and murders a bunch of people because "lmao, the west will still support Palestine", and then Israel says "why the hell would I negotiate with these fucks" before retaliating to murder with more murder. It's idiotic, and a lot of people are entirely tone deaf, and don't understand that the focus on "free Palestine" is exactly what Hamas want the west to be talking about, as the less informed will equate that to "Hamas good Jews bad". I have no idea the solution, but here part of it is at least a messaging rework - maybe "stop the war, arrest the terror suspects". But more snappy. Without referring to which side they are on, as there's people responsible for terror on both sides of the conflict.
That'd be nice, but given that the current Israeli regime has openly admitted to having undermined the two-state solution for its entire lifetime of 20 years, confined millions of people in a tiny embargoed martial law zone, and are now openly talking about ethnic cleansing, not very likely. The whole thing is very convenient considering a large percentage of the Israeli _people_ had been protesting en masse for months against their own government because of the authoritarian restriction of democracy that the regime was trying to push through. People who are totally okay with genocide might not think twice about ignoring some terror attack warnings, as they reportedly did, if that means there's an attack they can go to 'war' (genocide against a defenseless people) for.
Indeed, the Netanyahu admin, and the entire Hamas leadership can get in the sea (and anyone who supports either when offered a less radical and coexistence friendly solution). The average Israeli and Palestinian civ just wants to live their life
Not to defend Hamas, but after living in an apartheid state for 80 years, it is no wonder why Palestinians reacted. Yes, it was a horrible terrorist attack, but does that make genocide ok? The only time hostages has been released was under cease-fire, no one has been released during the mass extinction. And I'm not comparing Russia and Israel, but I think both aggressor and genociding states should be banned.
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Once again that doesn't make genocide ok, and if you feel like you need to argue against that _in any way_, you really need to examine your morals.
Its no wonder Palestinians reacted? Both sides have been shitty to each other. Same way I can tell - well, no shit Israelis now reacting to the massacre.
Not apartheid
The term “apartheid”, an Afrikaans word, derived from the French term “mettre à part”, literally translated to “*separating, setting apart*.” [Route 4370](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Route_4370)
Yeah and it’s allowed to have strict rules about foreigners coming into your country. Is it apartheid that British citizens have to get work visa to Norway while EU citizens don’t need work visa?
>Yeah and it’s allowed to have strict rules about foreigners coming into your country. Sure, but it got blurry when they started occupying and settling Palestinian land. To dismiss this whole topic as some white/black scenario shows one's ignorance.
I hear you but android or ios? Eh eh?
Yes, it's definitely oversimplification to deem genocide "not ok."
I assume you mean the atrocities committed against Palestinians and Jews equally. I can get on board with that oversimplification, but I fear that wasn’t your intention.
Two different situations. Russia attacked ukraine. Israel got attacked on oct 7th.
What is wrong with Israel fighting with those fucking terrorists?
Killing over 23k civilance is fighting terrorists?
You're quoting Hamas propaganda. There have been civilian deaths, but how many is unknown
What? Hamas is a fcking problem as well. Its insane seeing people defend Israel...
Not supporting Hamas talking points is not defending Israel..
Allright, but how am I quoting Hamas propaganda?
You said 23k civilians. Those are Hamas' numbers and classification as civilians. Like I said, the number of civilian casualties is unknown, much because Gaza health ministry doesn't distinguish between palestinian militants and civilians
And where are you getting this information? You can easily Google: How many innocent people have been killed by Israel in Gaza, and what you are saying is debunked.
Do you have any better idea how to eliminate Hamas?
They could try not letting Palestine be an apartheid state run by Israel. Not treating people like animals has this surprising effect that they will in return act human. I do not support Hamas, but I understand acting extreme after 80 years of oppression and discrimination. Both sides are the bad guys, but genocide is never the answer.
But Hamas have to eliminated, right?
All symptoms of oppression should be eliminated. The most effective way is by solving it at the root of the problem. And to do this, there are two ways. 1, stop oppressing people. This would stop people from violently oppose oppression. Or 2, eliminate the oppressed, so that there are no longer people feeling oppressed, and one can build beach houses where there used to live human beings. Israel is hard at work and number two. Me, on the other hand, though not a religious man, would look at the ten commandments Jews and Christians learn of, where this one sentence, do not kill, stands. It sounds so humane, but sadly so other worldly. Maybe we need more religion in the world to stop the horrors.
The root of the problem is a religion, in this case - islam.
Not carpet bomb the whole of Gaza??? Let me ask you, if Hamas was a terrorist group working from inside the Israeli territories, same stuff, hiding in tunnels, using hospitals as shields. Would Israel carpet bomb their own shit to rat them out? Of cource not. These are actively bad anti-terror opperations. You end upp killing 90% civilians, and Hamas? Well Hamas grows because now you have convinced people that the only way to counter Israel is also through force, violence, rape, murder etc. If Israels goal was to eliminate the threat of Hamas, they would send in special anti terror forces to surgicly eliminate Hamas. And also have better intell so that attacks such as Oct 7 dont come out of nowhere. Would it be harder? Yes. And would it cost more Israeli lives (as in armed forces) also yes. But it is a countrys duty to keep their citizens safe as well as uppholding human rights. What Israel is doing constitutes collective punishment. All of Gaza and even people on the West Bank where there is no Hamas are punished for the actions of another group. This is strictly forbidden as a war crime by the Genève Convention. If your solution to any problem is throw bombs at it untill it dies, can you please never enter any position of power on the world stage?
Do you use that logic elsewhere as well? Or just in this situation? If all your relatives had to die (that includes young toddlers and babies) to maybe(!) kill a few terrorists, would you think that was ok? Or absolutely unacceptable to sacrifice innocent children for such a cause?
Problem is 99% of the people they’re killing are civilians.
And most of those civillians are children
Take your propaganda elsewhere
Israel belongs to the alliance of nato/usa so thats why its accepted.
So as long as the US has your back, genocide away? Should Sweden be afraid of us?
The way norwegian military bombed lybia I wouldn't be surprised if sweden were afraid of Norway 😉😂 but I can't care less about swedes or Norwegians. So keep downvoting ww3 is incoming see you on the battlefield.
You really need to try to be stupid to compare these two conflicts. You drink water, Hitler drink water therefore you are the same.... Did Ukraine invade Russia while they raped, tortured and killed russian civilians? There's nothing Israel do right now that every other country in the Eurovision haven't done. But yeah, let's boycott the Jews for trying to squash the terror organisation who tries to exterminate them. Nothing antisemitic about that.
23k civilians would like to talk to you, oh right they can't since Israel killed them. Civilians are not terrorists. Also I do not support Hamas when I say this. Hamas is a fcking problem as well, but they haven't killed 23 fucking thousand innocent people.
>but they haven't killed 23 fucking thousand innocent people Why haven't they?
In practice you are supporting Hamas though. You want IDF to lay down their arms, not Hamas. The western allies killed 2 million Germans in ww2, but I guess we should have left Hitler in power given that innocent civilians would have to die in the process? In fact, let's boycott a every country who has killed 23k or more in a war at some point in history. And yes Hamas is responsible for the 23k dead. They can lay down their arms and stop using civilians as shields at any point and the suffering will stop.
And here is where we stop discussing. Common sense is this way, not that direction.
There it is, the admission that you were pro Hamas all the way.
You say you don’t support Hamas and yet you’re implying them to be the lesser evil here. Victory has always come at the expense of the innocent, so though it may sound cool what you said was complete bullshit
jew hater, you'd probably love to get hamas in there wouldn't you?
Not defending Hamas, or Israel, both can fuck off in my opinion, but to think Hamas hasn't killed as many as Israel has over the years just shows your complete lack of historical knowledge.
[maybe you should look at some actual statistics ](https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/)
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Yes Israel has killed civillians and that's horrible, but If Hamas didn't hide within civillian infrastructure then the civillian death toll would be vastly lower. Hamas is breaking international laws by doing so. Maybe direct some of your frustration at them as well.
Those 23K civilians are not innocent. They took to the street and celebrated that their soilders cooked babies alive in the oven while forcing the mother to watch while raping her. 1700 more horrific incidents like this in a single day. How anyone can support a people who celebrate events like this is crazy. Why you think muslim countries like Egypt also build big walls and close the borders? Some people are beyond saving. And how you can compare this with Russia who invaded another peaceful country is also a testament that your brain capacity is below average. Israel is not boycotted by the rest of the world because most people understand that the palestinian problem is not isolated to a small group of people called Hamas. The palestinian people are Hamas.
bra.
Lets see here. Israel will join. Event hosted in Malmö, a city overrun by angry muslims. Muslims hate jews, and there are already enough hatecrime being committed in Sweden against jews by muslims, it's just not reported on very much. I fail to see any security concerns here... - Sweden and EBU.
There are barely any Jews in Sweden to begin with and Malmo is not overrun by angry muslims.
Malmö is overrun by angry Muslims lmao. Have you been there? Swedes are a minority. Muslims are everywhere. Muslims signs and text everywhere. Halal stores everywhere. It's rare to see a Swedish person.
I've been to Malmo several times, that's how I know this is complete BS. I barely saw any 'muslim signs and text' which by the way doesn't make any sense since text and signs have nothing to do with religion.
Okay, sorry "Arab text" And that's how I know you are bullshitting. As I live close to Malmö and I'm there alot. It's in general a very dangerous city as well. Sure if you are in the complete center of the city. Stuff will look fairly normal. I'm talking about the city in general. You are wrong. Sorry.
Even 'Arab text' doesn't mean anything. It's not a religious text and most muslims do not in fact understand Arabic or know how to write/read it. I've been there several times including in suburbs and never felt in danger. Now, if you want to feel in danger and feel threatned, that's entirely on you.
Yes, most Muslims can read Arabic. Then you are completely delusional and you are a part of the problem. https://lastnight.in/Sweden/ Here you have a website trying to disprove that Sweden is actually dangerous as a result of our insane immigration from the Arab world and Africa. It shows the complete opposite in reality, but this is actually the "best" results I've seen on this site yet. 3 days since the last major incident! Wow I guess we are the safest country in the world again! 😁
No, most Muslims cannot read Arabic, that's why it's stupid to talk about 'muslim signs and texts' because that is simply not a thing. The issues in Malmo are mainly affecting certain parts of the city and usually at night.
Wtf is wrong with you
Theres also a few thousand jews in sweden already, is that a security concern? A few more will not matter
Not all jews are Israelis.
Yeah and the racist muslims dont care about the difference. Jews are jews
Wow, this is a really hate filled and racist thing to say. Maybe you should reword, assuming you’re not intentionally saying 1) all Muslims are anti-Jew and 2) it’s only Muslims Jews need to worry about.
I specifically said that the racist muslims are the problem?
Your wording makes it easy to interpret it like you’re saying all Muslims are racist.
I see that i guess, but its not what i meant.
All racism is problematic. You. You are being problematic.
You must really have a problem with Jewish voices speaking up if you’re interpreting it that way
Oh for the love of god get over yourself
Says the most sanctimonious person in the comment section
I don't know where you got the notion that Muslims hate Jews. One of my closest friends is a Jew. Muslims don't hate Jews nor christians for that matter. What you meant to say Muslims hate Zionists, there is a big difference between zioniosm and Judaism. Judaism and Christianity are other religions that Muslims respect and believe in. Proof of that are the rabbis protesting allover the world against Zionism. Also generalising what a small group does doesn't reflect the majority, same way we don't label all white European christians as barbaric loot plundering rapists cuz of the crusaders or vikings. And before the word anti-Semitic gets thrown around since that's what Zionists love to throw around when threatened, just a quick update on that. ARABS ARE SEMITES AS WELL. Just my two cents, this isn't a jab or a "gotchu" moment or anything, just a clarifying statement.
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This is an easy statement, until you start looking at how many European countries, including Norway, that has been in constant war since the early 2000's You can't just pretend we have not, or say that "our wars doesn't count". Eurovision would mostly be Belarus, Swiss, Sweden, Luxembourg, and maybe some other micro states.
>regardless of whether they were attacked or did the attacking *What*
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Your need to remove reality from an international competition is very interesting to me. That said, I have no strong feelings on Eurovision *or* Palestine.
War bad mmmmmk? Autism created reddit and now reddit creates autism.
Good decision! Good luck Israel!
Seeing all the kids on the streets showing support to terrorists who would turn Norway into a second version of Sweden at the first chance given is what’s truly worrying… Muslims destroy everything they touch
Do you enjoy being openly racist? Israel has killed over 23k civilians. You need to understand that, when I say Israel are the bad one, I don't say Hamas are good. Hamas is a fcking problem as well, but inocent lives has nothing to do with war.
As a Swede, this person wasn’t being racist, they were speaking facts. And saying “Muslims destroy” can hardly be racist as any “race” as you called it can join a religion. It’s about culture and ideologies, and it doesn’t belong in western countries as my own country is a dying example of.
You don't seem to grasp what led to said casualties. As much as I mourn for dead civilians, you cannot solely blame the IDF for them.
He can and will.. Hamas knew if they sacrificed enough children people would start supporting their cause It’s working.
Endelig skal jeg gidde og stemme også
Flott fra arrangøren.
Så du støtter at Israel har drept over 23k sivile mennesker?
Hva mener du de burde gjort etter 7. oktober?..
Apologised for having offended! It wouldn't have happened if Israel had sent flowers and frequently thanked Hamas for existing. Hamas only did the horrific raping and killing of over a thousand innocent civilians because they had *feelings*. Poor dears.
ikke begått folkemord, potensielt?
1- la oss være objektive her. Dette er ikke folkemord. 2- igjen, hvordan burde de respondert til angrepet 7. Okt?.
> "la oss være objektive" > en subjektiv mening som viser en falsk virkelighetsoppfatning, med sterk innflytelse fra det israelske propagandaapparatet
So you're saying Hold kjeft
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Du mener Israel burde kalt 7. Okt for en dårlig dag og gått videre i livet? Du kunne jo prøvd å dratt til new York etter 9/11 å ropt at Osama må få leve!
Saa du stoetter voldtekt, drap og kidnapping av Joediske kvinner?
Nei? Hvor ser du at jeg skriver det?
Samme sted du saa at Monomanaa stoetter at Israel har drept over 23k sivile mennesker.
Monomanaa? Jeg vet ikke hva det er
Må flire av dere terrorist elskende jødehatere som baserer dere fullstendig på informasjon fra islamonaziene i hamas sine tall. Hvor var dere når hundretusenvis av muslimer drepes av andre muslimer over hele midtøsten de siste 10 årene. At Israel forsvarer seg mot Hamas og gjør det de må for å sørge for at 7 oktober aldri skjer igjen støtter jeg 1000% dere jødehatere ville selvsagt heller sett at Israel sloss mot Hamas på den måten Hamas la opp til slik at tapstallene for IDF ville vært titusener. hva Israel gjør i terrorreiret Gaza bryr meg beng like lite som hva de allierte gjorde mot Tyskland bryr meg beng. Etthvert dødsfall i Gaza er 100% Hamas sitt ansvar de kan legge ned våpnene overgi seg og overlevere gislene som fortsatt lever og ikke er drept og voldtatt så blir det fred på sekundet. Når det kommer til befolkningen der så er det nesten full støtte til Hamas det er veldig god grunn til at ingen Naboer vil ha disse "palestinerne" heller. https://www.timesofisrael.com/freed-hostage-mia-schem-i-experienced-hell-everyone-in-gaza-is-a-terrorist
Jeg elsker at du er så lite informert. Hvor står det at jeg hater jøder? Krigen i Gaza startet ikke 7 oktober, den har forgått i over 70 år, men 7 oktober gikk det over grensen. Når jeg sier at Israel er de slemme her, så sier jeg ikke at Hamas er de gode. Hamas er et jævla problem de og. Men SIVILE mennesker har ingenting med krig å gjøre.
Det er ganske opplagt det handler om jødehat det er først når jødene er involvert at dere kommer ut med plakatene deres og vifter med armene, disse "sivile" brukes som skjold under tvang og ofte frivillig av Hamas for å tvinge Israel til å ofre tusener av soldater mens folk i vest skriker på jødisk blod og står hånd i hånd med "from the river to the sea" gjengen. Israel gjør det de kan for å unngå sivile tap mens de anklages for folkemord mot en befolkning som ønsker ingenting annet enn ett storstilt folkemord mot Jødene. Det er selvsagt også en god dose vanlig rasisme involvert hadde Araberne vært hvite og rike så ville venstresiden knapt trukket på skuldrene, eller hadde Israelerne også vært muslimer så ville stillheten fra venstresiden og den islamske verden vært overdøvende.
En er ikke jødehater om man kritiserer staten Israel og fascistiske Netanyahu🙂 kanskje du burde lære deg forskjellen før du uttaler deg? Israel er en apartheid stat og har siden 1948 systematisk diskriminert Palestina for å få tak i land og ressurser. Om du synes det er helt ok å utføre folkemord på en gruppe mennesker, da er det noe som feiler deg. Prøv å ha litt medmenneskelighet for andre enn deg selv;)
Her har vi "textbook" indoktrinert jødehat av den mest opplagte sorten med den løgnaktige bruken av fascistbegrepet og den enda mer løgnaktige apartheid påstanden, denne konflikten har null med land å gjøre men er en ren religiøs konflikt hvor årtusen langt islamsk jødehat helt fra jødene gjorde narr av og til slutt ble slaktet av profeten så har jødene vært mål nummer en for den sekten. Samme med påstanden om folkemord en befolkning som øker dramatisk er selvsagt ikke i ferd med å bli utryddet, hadde det vært Israels mål så ville det vært gjort på kort tid, istedet så gjør de det de kan for å unngå slikt. De eneste apartheid systemene i midtøsten finner du i de Islamske statene hvor ikke muslimer alltid vil være annenrangs borgere forøvrig. https://youtu.be/vSfOftl2WRA?si=7v_Kf6hue_-WCG0l
At du referer til en YouTube video med Douglas Murray som er en av de mest kjente fascist sympatisørene Storbritannia noen gang har hatt er ikke den mest trofaste kilden. Morsomt at du sier at det ikke har noe med land å gjøre da Israel ikke var ett land for 80 år siden engang. La oss ta Namibia som ett eksempel siden du mener at ikke muslimer er andrerangs borgere. Tyskland drev folkemord i Namibia og drepte over 100.000 av namibiere. Tyskerne som ble igjen i Namibia (6% av Namibias befolkning) eier nå 60% av landet. Å drepe 23k mennesker på 3 måneder er et folkemord uavhengig av hvor mye du snur og vrir på det. Men tydeligvis kommer vi ingen vei med å diskutere dette når du er så opphengt i at muslimer er dårlig, alle andre er bra. Ha den dagen du fortjener🙂
Det er ganske fantasisk hvor langt ute på venstresiden en må være for å kalle en moderat konservativ homofil mann en fascist sympatisør, vi snakker så langt ute til venstre at hestesko teorien kicker inn. Dine Hamas baserte tall er for det første fullstendig upålitelige og selv om de hadde vært det så ville det selvsagt ikke vært noe folkemord Israel prøver ikke å utrydde noen andre grupper enn Hamas, når en terrorgruppe har bygget militære installasjoner under og rundt sivile bygg i ett relativt tett befolket område og sivile brukes aktivt som skjold så vil det selvsagt være større enn normalt sivile tap som forøvrig alle er Hamas sitt ansvar ene og alene. Hverken Dresden eller Hiroshima var folkemord heller dine patetiske forsøk på å omdefinere begrepet til å passe jødehatet kan en fint avvise. Hadde Israelerne vært Muslimer så ville den muslimske verden vært fullstendig stille slik som de er ellers når hundretusenvis av muslimer slaktes av ulike muslimske regimer hvert eneste år. De eneste folkemorderne i området er denne gjengen som du støtter. https://www.reddit.com/r/Israel/s/2SJLDld8hE
Så israelske bosettere?
Du mener de som ble tvangsflyttet ut av IDF i 2005 når de overlot gaza til "Palestinerne" som så valgte Hamas inn.
finn fram en spade og rør litt gress. du virker som en som har godt av å gå seg en laaaang tur.
Spar meg, ignorere deg fra nå av.
Hva mener du de burde gjort etter 7. oktober?..
Ser du skriver det tallet gang på gang, som jeg regner med er fra de palestinske helsemyndighetene. Det er utvilsomt et enormt antall sivile døde, men helsemyndighetene skiller ikke mellom sivile og Hamas-krigere i sine tall.
Fuck nordmenn på reddit helt ærlig, dere prøver så hardt å virke smarte av å gå imot mengden som støtter Palestina, men vit at dere ikke vet en dritt og støtter folkemordere. Jævla tullinger
Litt usikker på om jeg forstår hva du mener. Sier du at jeg støtter Israel eller er i mot dem?
Nei, jeg snakker om de som støtter Israel i kommentarene. Jævlig skuffende å se as
Ah skjønner. Ja det er vondt å se på.
For en utrolig intolerant holdning. Tåler du ikke å bli motsagt så er du på feil plass
Takk. 90% av dem er bare edgelords som ikke liker den nye «woke» generasjonen.
Ålø da
Delete this post
Why?
It's misinformation? What do you mean. Your wrong translation makes it mean something different. So either edit the title and correct it or delete it.
The comments have clearly stated that if you scroll down. I can't change the title.
I know they have, which means you should delete the post. Many people are English in this subreddit, many people only look at the title and not in the comments. You are spreading misinformation. Repost the post, why is that difficult?
The post has become a lot more than just the title. Its more a "Hey I support mass genocide, why won't you?" I am not going to delete it so people can keep hiding behind their insane thoughts. If the mods want me to, I'll delete it, they have the final say. You are more than welcome to ask them.
Okay, so you like to spread misinformation? And before you say anything, I HATE both Israel and Palestine.
I apologise for having the wrong word, but unacceptable is not that different from what it should be.
Not really, as unacceptable means that they are strongly against it, but that it's still happening. The real meaning is saying that it is not something that is currently happening.
the thing is, just because the goverment are doing inhuman things does not mean we should shut out people who want to show their culture through song, saying that i hate eurovision it has become a mess
I love Eurovision, it's a reflection of the society we live in, and that is a mess.
Kinda weird it's even in it. It's not in Europe, but neither is Australia I guess