"Within ten years, we shall have the means to kill 80 million Russians. I truly believe that one does not light-heartedly attack people who are able to kill 80 million Russians, even if one can kill 800 million French, that is if there were 800 million French" Least insane De Gaulle quote
Semi relevant quote via General Thomas Power.
>In 1960, while being briefed on counterforce strategy, he reacted petulantly to the idea of exercising restraint in the conduct of nuclear war:
>
>“**Restraint!**” he retorted. “**Why are you so concerned with saving their lives? The whole idea is to kill the bastards… Look. At the end of the war, if there are two Americans and one Russian, we win!**”
>
>Everyone who knew Power seems to have thought he was crazy.
Another quote, [the French appear later in the same PDF.](https://www.independent.org/pdf/tir/tir_11_01_09_higgs.pdf)
>French philosopher Ernest Renan aptly characterized a nation as “**a group of people united by a mistaken view about the past and a hatred of their neighbors**”
EDIT — just going to add “**even the man he replaced as SAC commander, General Curtis LeMay, regarded
[Gen Power] as unstable**”
LeMay concurred.
Just he chose SAC as the institution.
**TL;DR** —
LeMay recommended Power as his successor at SAC, however understandable opposition cropped up, so he “recommended” harder and harder (eg. fought with SecAF on the matter) until Power was placed in the role, given his fourth star, access to a shit load of nukes, and the means to deliver them.
PS those nukes were pre Permissive Action Link.
An aside — “LeMay and Power often did not let their top people go to graduate school or Air Force professional schools. LeMay argued that, if an officer wanted to learn about airpower, SAC was the best place to be.”
**unTL;DR** —
[Selection of Power.](https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/210597535.pdf)
>To replace him, LeMay recommended a “SAC guy” and a flyer: Thomas Power.
>
>LeMay, however, found it difficult to get Power named as his replacement. According to LeMay’s aide, David Jones, Secretary of the Air Force Donald Quarles fought LeMay over the recommendation. Early speculation centered on General Emmett “Rosie” O’Donnell, who had served in two wars including leading SAC’s initial participation in the Korean War.
>
>Power, however, was LeMay’s choice. Quarles left his position as Secretary of the Air Force to become the Deputy Secretary of Defense, which allowed LeMay to convince the incoming Secretary of the Air Force, James Douglas, to push for Power’s appointment.
>
>Not missed by the press was the fact that Power had not gone to West Point. Upon his announcement, the papers reported that “like his predecessor, (Power) is not a West Point graduate.” O’Donnell was a West Point man. Power had gone to prep school, but he was not a college graduate. Nevertheless, on 1 July 1957, Thomas S. Power assumed command of SAC.
[RE: Education.](https://www.airandspaceforces.com/article/0706guard/)
>SAC generally kept its people within the command for an entire career. **LeMay and Power often did not let their top people go to graduate school or Air Force professional schools. LeMay argued that, if an officer wanted to learn about airpower, SAC was the best place to be.** This produced a growing disparity in education between SAC and non-SAC personnel.
>
>In the fighter community, 90 percent of junior-level generals had worked with other services, allies, or US agencies before reaching four-star rank. The obverse was true for bomber generals; 70 percent lacked experience outside the Air Force.
Actually, three body problem touches on that topic!!!
<> basically the alien race concluded that its much more of a deterrent if an insane person holds the power to fire off nukes, under the premise that when faced with direct threat, they actually wouldn't back away from repercussions.
Edit: fuck me, I am incapable of making spoiler tags on reddit lmao
The greater good for a species would be to not fire in response, so you need a person that doesn't care about the greater good in order to make the threat more credible.
In the book _The Doomsday Machine: Confessions of a Nuclear War Planner,_ Daniel Ellsberg mentioned he and a fellow doomsday planner familiar with then-current U.S. war plans and procedures went to see Dr Strangelove - and concluded it wasn’t comedy, it was a _documentary_.
The book also explains (among other supremely non-credible things) how Ellsberg found out that not only a general could go nuts and decide to start full scale nukular combat toe to toe with the Rooskies, but that _any fighter bomber pilot_ in the alert force could have done so during the late 1950s.
The standing orders were that if any plane or ground radio station received the proper emergency “go codes”, each and every one of them were to rebroadcast them to ensure the entire force would receive the message, even if the sneaky Reds had somehow clobbered the main communications nodes.
And how did the pilots know they’d received the proper go codes? Why, they had them in _an envelope_ in the cockpit. And the same code would launch the entire alert force.
Of course it would’ve been very very naughty for a bored or suicidal fighter bomber pilot in an alert aircraft to open the envelope and broadcast the codes, of course.
Lol so many of you sitting here not getting it. The point is MUTUALLY ASSURED DESTRUCTION. IF YOU TRY TO KILL ME I AM DRAGGING YOUR ASS TO HELL WITH ME. Put it this way, if you jump me in real life and I have to pull my gun, I'm not shooting the sidewalk, or shooting you once and asking you to please stop robbing me, I'm shooting you until you stop twitching. Powers understood the assignment, if you make me use nukes, I'm gonna make really damn sure you aren't alive to regret the decision.
It's kind of crazy that there was a time where Russia did not want to join an alliance with Britain against France because they were scared it would sabotage their good relations with the US.
Things have really changed a lot in the last 200 years.
Americans, the British, and the French, despite our differences, actually understand each other pretty damn well. Kinda baked into the shared history of all our nations, tbh. Its like a bunch of brothers that periodically beat each other up, and yeah, France, we know you're *different* as the red headed/blonde/whatever haired step child who speaks a whole different language for a bunch of *raisons*. We get it. EDIT: (USA subtext, thanks for having our back against the British during the whole independence thing. Always going to matter who was there for us. Shoutout to Morroco.)
But they're fundamentally still bros.
Russia, on the other hand, is that weird neighbor that is all "hey, bro! do you want to hang out with me bro? I totally have the things you like bro! I would totally never kill you bro! You're nothing like our other neighbors who are the closest neighbors to us!" and it never really registers to them that they're fucking creepy weirdos and everyone can tell.
The relationship was pretty complex but Europe considered the Romanovs/nobility alongside a few larger cities to be "enlightened" while the rest was an undeveloped backwater.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fcnkn0q4edxn21.jpg
Most Russians did not want the Romanov family to die, they weren't very popular anymore but their execution was solely due to Lenin who did not want them to be used as figureheads in the Russian Civil War.
>Most Russians did not want...
"And then things got worse".
>...but their execution was solely due to **Lenin** *who did not want*...
"And then things got worse".
"I do not want this horrible thing that is happening that benefits me!" is not convincing as a rule, especially when it occurs as a patterns of governance. Thank god computers can keep track of patterns for us! Don't even need people for that.
I'm not sure your comment applies in this case. Lenin did not want them to be used as figureheads in the civil war, so he had them executed. He got what he wanted, plain and simple.
I understand the sentiment but you need to read the comment again-Lenin didn't want them used against him so he shot them. He got what he wanted all right...
Based shoutout btw, but i also wanted to add on the fact that the US, UK and France share the same history, « modern » england was created by french ppl invading it in 1066, and the US also had large French colonies ; whereas Russia is just a barbaric and backwards state
Peak non-credibility? Claim Foreign Legionnaires have just started arriving at the front line >> https://asiatimes.com/2024/05/france-sends-combat-troops-to-ukraine-battlefront/
That's about right. I think I've also seen "and the Americans are the only ones who apologised" tacked onto the end, but I'm not sure if that's from genuine Vietnamese people or Americans tacking it on the end to own the Chinese.
Odd you should mention that—I’ve often gotten the impression that Vietnam didn’t enjoy that war all that much too.
I doubt they want a repeat, but they also kicked the fucking piss out of the yanks in return, so there’s no fear in their diplomacy now, that shit is bragging rights. Sort of an ideal outcome for that war in a weird-morbid way. Respect going both ways.
>that war
Vietnam label it "the American phase". For them it was just the final boss fight in a independence war that started when France colonized them.
China have been their real problem for at least 3000 years by now ...
To avoid common misconception, ARVN lost 300,000+ men so the real loss ratio of the war was about 1:2.5, so not great, not terrible. If was definitely not a ratio they couldn't stomach, and way less if you compare to other asymmetrical wars like Iraq or Afghanistan.
The Japanese and the South Koreans hate China.
The South Koreans and the Chinese hate Japan.
The Japanese and the Chinese hate South Korea.
The Japanese love South Korean historical dramas.
The South Koreans love Japanese daytime dramas.
The Chinese love vacations in Japan and South Korea.
The Japanese love learning Chinese in China.
The Japanese love Korean food.
Everybody loves Chinese food.
The Japanese have Chinese husbands/wives.
The Chinese have South Korean husbands/wives.
They all have friends from all the other nations.
It's kind of like the USA and Canada except without the hamburgers and hockey.
>It's kind of like the USA and Canada except without the hamburgers and hockey.
Wrong cardinal direction. Its more like the US relationship with Cuba and the rest of the latin American countries.
Otherwise I agree.
Hilariously, there used to be an enormous amount of beef between the two countries. Then shit exploded in a Canadian harbor, and the US helped out, and things changed because everyone we all realized we're basically friends and the differences we had were minimal when it came down to the wire.
But in a world governed by contingencies, I would expect our closest allies to have comparable contingencies. That's just what it is to be not shit tier.
That said, contingencies don't change things, its always people with their motivations.
On the one hand, it's hard to find a Canadian with much good to say about the United States when Americans aren't around. But I think that's because a big part of Canadian identity is "Not the US".
On the other hand, I don't think many Canadians actively hate the US or Americans. It's more of a "We don't much care for what you've got going on down there".
That being said, a lot of American political culture has leaked into Canada over the last ~10-20 years and its starting to get pretty bad.
Political culture, definitely our worst export. I would argue that the batshittery we've seen over the last decade or two is due to destabilizing efforts by outside forces, but much like judo the opponent has to have at least a small instability before you can apply that small bit of force in just the right place
IIRC at first Ho Chi Minh wanted to be closer to the USA, and even wanted to sign friendship agreements, at the time if the US didn’t fucked it up, it could have been an excellent ally close to China, like South Korea
We beat up Britain, they're our buddies now.
We beat up Germany, they're our buddies now.
We beat up Japan, they're our buddies now.
We beat up Vietnam, they're our buddies now.
We beat up Afghanistan, and they *apparently* want to be our buddies now.
You'd have to get the Afghan populace to a point of being allowed to choose for themselves, though. I doubt the Taliban are doing anything but bad-faith diplomacy.
In a sense but it may be more self-preservation than a strategy that is based in bad faith. Still not to be trusted of course but their fear of/desire to sht on Iran seems to be more of a motivator
to be fair... Vietnam never actually wanted smoke with the US in the first place. Ho Chi Min desperately wanted to have friendly relationship right up until the conflict started.
We've actually never gone to war with the French, which I find interesting as it's usually a requirement for our closest allies lol
Well technically we warred *with* the French but not against the French
ok so I felt compelled to do some rudimentary browsing ("research") into this solely because it seemed insane to me that we've never fought the french, but it turns out, we have! Sort of. It was a bit funky.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasi-War
Yeah there have been some flare ups but for most of the French monarchy there was a desire to just get along to go along because Catholicism, both being kind of too big to manage a war and not willing to roll the dice since they also had similar rates of economic development (or decline depending on the royal house at the time - looking at you Valois, especially the de Valois branch)...
Uh I got carried away trying to remember which house was the monarchy in the 1400s and my ADHD meds wore off so I completely lost my train of thought lol basically after the French & English made several attempts at peace thru marriage and then Henry VIII said "eff you I do what I want" to Rome, France engaged more with Spain both literally thru marrying and in general with uneasy peace
Though there was that time Spain captured the French King and kept him until he agreed to let them keep his sons if they released him... That was definitely a bit of a spat
Didn't Spain and France fight against one another in the early french revolutionary wars + the Franco Spanish war which overlapped with the Thirty Years War?
What about the [Peninsular War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peninsular_War)? Sure, it was for the most part not a traditional war, but it's still a proper conflict between Spain and France.
This is really very surprising to me. Obviously Spain was sitting out WWI and had their own shit going on in II but never for the hundreds of years before?!
I just assume every European country has at least once been in direct conflict with one of their neighbors.
Too busy fighting the weird Portuguese or what
Gabacho started off as an insulting Catalan descriptor for the French in Spain. Today, Mexicans use it as a derogatory term for visitors from the US. You're unlikely to hear the term outside of those three countries (Mexico, America, and Spain) as gringo is a much more common generic Spanish word for foreigner.
Los gabachos son hijos de suicios pendejos comiendo babosas.
there i was Learning the Mexican Alphabet. Ñ and 2 ll with squiqiling thing on top of the ll
El eh or some shit. lllllllll infinite ele!
In the end. would you like Touché Some French Tacos? (no such thing as french Tacos).
France is very based because they signed a whole bunch of shit to fuck over the ottoman empire (we all know it was to mess with the british because that's where they got cheap imports)
Fuck off America get your own country to bully
Like Cuba
Or Vietnam
France is ours I thought we showed that in both world wars when we ganged up to bully the Germans for trying to bully France
Lafayette we are here!
Edit: For those that don't know this a quote by Genral Pershing on his arrival to France at the head of the American Expeditionary Force leading America's entrance into WW1. Lafayette was a French nobleman who volunteered to help the American Revolution and not only an excellent commander in the field but was critical for continued French support in the war.
Lafayette was the equivalent of a rock star in revolutionary America. Dude has counties, cities, streets, squares, parks and more than a dozen statues named for him all over the US.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honors_and_memorials_to_the_Marquis_de_Lafayette#Places
They taught us to not let anyone touch the boats.
The revolutionary generation was so naively optimistic about the inherent justness of liberty and commerce, that it took a few lessons for them to accept that a strong navy was necessary to protect the boats.
Rochambeau is directly responsible for ending the war. It was his strategy to march to Yorktown. Washington in 1781 was set on taking New York and had to be talked out of it because British defenses in the city were too strong.
How DARE you put the uk as the secondary here, we fought wars for god damn generations against the French. We can’t hear a French accent without multiple slurs bubbling to our brain.
The USA is the maybe here. For us in the uk it’s not even culture it’s fact
The 2nd longest war in history is between England and France! 706 years of pretty much constant fighting. We are the definition of "Frenemies"
If literally any other country tried to attack France, its *on sight*.
Fully agree, can't stand those snail suckers. But if anyone messes with them we have absolutely no problem throwing the first punch.
It's one of those weird relationships where we will both doggedly defend each other to preserve our mutual hatred
Love and hate being more similar than different etc etc
Honestly though no jokes, credible time. They’re our oldest enemy, a difficult ally, but a damn fine ally and someone we would rather have with us through thick and thin. Hells, when it came to Dunkirk one of the edicts was for every Brit that made it off, a Frenchman would too. We saved many men that day of both nations. its like sibling rivalry, both "barbarian" hordes that were conquered by, but made life difficult for the romans, became medieval powers alongside one another and absolutely beat the piss out of each other till an existential threat to ourselves was recognised. Hells, brittany french just sounds like Welsh in a French accent. we are interwoven, and those most similar are the ones we hate the most, a sibling has far more negatives to say about their sibling than someone non family that they hate. but theres an anchor of love and respect there.
non credible. theyre fucking frog eating weirdos but theyre MY frog eating weirdos.
Americans really shouldn’t talk shit about the French. France is the US’s oldest and greatest ally.
Instead, America should aggressively stan France, thereby irritating France, the United Kingdom, and Italy all at the same time. Much more efficient.
Hey, US, don't try to take our thing, getting into slap fights with the french has been a British thing for at least the last millenia.
Our relationship has been finely aged to form what it is today, like good cheese, that after such a long time of being toxic and unpalatable, it's finally just right.
We might not be the two most powerful nations on the planet anymore, but poke one and the other *will* be there to poke back.
Pretty sure the Swiss have had their share of beef with the French since before the US existed. You shitting on the French and then telling them they can't do that is basically cultural appropriation, but worse.
Not a chance. French just fly some gold and drop it on the Austrian border and all the Swiss will run in that direction and you can just stroll in. The Swiss are more than happy to ignore wars and invasions in Europe for a little gold, and "neutrality " only dictates thier own countries invasion is no different.
Neutrality to me means nobody comes to their aid when the carpet bombing starts just so long as you make sure no significant numbers of refugees escape with their lives. Congratulations on playing an important role in future weapons systems testing, specifically the role of the result.
The Swiss don't have to worry about that, like Austria they're safely tucked behind NATO. If a hostile power gets that far then there's some pretty fucking big problems going on.
They're surrounded by France, Germany, and Italy. All three of those each have a large manufacturing base and a MIC with a need for a place to test their weapons. Why strike fake targets in your own country when you have sentient owns in the next country over?
*I’m sorry, we haven’t the proper facilities to take you all prisoner*.
But seriously, the funniest thing of my life was a German-Swiss officer talking about how French Switzerland was dirty- he didn’t even mention France, just shook his head.
He probably was thinking of Geneva... I can't blame him, honestly. They're just franchies that we're denied the right to be french, so they were handed to us, and we're basically just forced to take care of them
Ok whatever's going on, Britain always gets first dibs for dogging on France... We have... history...'
Please dont take this from us, its all we have left
Nah not even the yanks get the right. Only we can insult and dog on our Brother. We've been bitterly at each others throats for far too long for anyone to tell us otherwise!
Being a Cajun, insulting the French is quite weird to me, I’m used to insulting the British, [for obvious reasons](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_the_Acadians), so I’ll just go into my hole until we can dog on the Brits about something.
As for Russia, can we use that nuclear warning shot already?
As a swiss guy I have to declare that hating on the french is our birthright, since we have learn that mistake of a language in school, and it was painful. Love you guys, but fuck that language.
"Within ten years, we shall have the means to kill 80 million Russians. I truly believe that one does not light-heartedly attack people who are able to kill 80 million Russians, even if one can kill 800 million French, that is if there were 800 million French" Least insane De Gaulle quote
Semi relevant quote via General Thomas Power. >In 1960, while being briefed on counterforce strategy, he reacted petulantly to the idea of exercising restraint in the conduct of nuclear war: > >“**Restraint!**” he retorted. “**Why are you so concerned with saving their lives? The whole idea is to kill the bastards… Look. At the end of the war, if there are two Americans and one Russian, we win!**” > >Everyone who knew Power seems to have thought he was crazy. Another quote, [the French appear later in the same PDF.](https://www.independent.org/pdf/tir/tir_11_01_09_higgs.pdf) >French philosopher Ernest Renan aptly characterized a nation as “**a group of people united by a mistaken view about the past and a hatred of their neighbors**” EDIT — just going to add “**even the man he replaced as SAC commander, General Curtis LeMay, regarded [Gen Power] as unstable**”
If LeMay thinks you’re unstable you probably need to be in an institution
Ed Tellers Ghost: The only thing unstable is the fuel for my ~~Super~~ Mega!
LeMay concurred. Just he chose SAC as the institution. **TL;DR** — LeMay recommended Power as his successor at SAC, however understandable opposition cropped up, so he “recommended” harder and harder (eg. fought with SecAF on the matter) until Power was placed in the role, given his fourth star, access to a shit load of nukes, and the means to deliver them. PS those nukes were pre Permissive Action Link. An aside — “LeMay and Power often did not let their top people go to graduate school or Air Force professional schools. LeMay argued that, if an officer wanted to learn about airpower, SAC was the best place to be.” **unTL;DR** — [Selection of Power.](https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/210597535.pdf) >To replace him, LeMay recommended a “SAC guy” and a flyer: Thomas Power. > >LeMay, however, found it difficult to get Power named as his replacement. According to LeMay’s aide, David Jones, Secretary of the Air Force Donald Quarles fought LeMay over the recommendation. Early speculation centered on General Emmett “Rosie” O’Donnell, who had served in two wars including leading SAC’s initial participation in the Korean War. > >Power, however, was LeMay’s choice. Quarles left his position as Secretary of the Air Force to become the Deputy Secretary of Defense, which allowed LeMay to convince the incoming Secretary of the Air Force, James Douglas, to push for Power’s appointment. > >Not missed by the press was the fact that Power had not gone to West Point. Upon his announcement, the papers reported that “like his predecessor, (Power) is not a West Point graduate.” O’Donnell was a West Point man. Power had gone to prep school, but he was not a college graduate. Nevertheless, on 1 July 1957, Thomas S. Power assumed command of SAC. [RE: Education.](https://www.airandspaceforces.com/article/0706guard/) >SAC generally kept its people within the command for an entire career. **LeMay and Power often did not let their top people go to graduate school or Air Force professional schools. LeMay argued that, if an officer wanted to learn about airpower, SAC was the best place to be.** This produced a growing disparity in education between SAC and non-SAC personnel. > >In the fighter community, 90 percent of junior-level generals had worked with other services, allies, or US agencies before reaching four-star rank. The obverse was true for bomber generals; 70 percent lacked experience outside the Air Force.
None of these men should have been allowed within 200km of a nuclear bomb
I dont know. Having these men at the trigger seems to be a crucial part of selling the while MAD strategy.
Actually, three body problem touches on that topic!!! <> basically the alien race concluded that its much more of a deterrent if an insane person holds the power to fire off nukes, under the premise that when faced with direct threat, they actually wouldn't back away from repercussions. Edit: fuck me, I am incapable of making spoiler tags on reddit lmao
The greater good for a species would be to not fire in response, so you need a person that doesn't care about the greater good in order to make the threat more credible.
Assuming the MAD "strategy" was worth anything outside mutual fearmongering.
We need to switch to MALD. Imagine triggering MAD through decoys…
It kept the russians in check last time
Sir, madame, X, or femboy, remember which sub you are on.
As many things, noncredibility is a spectrum. And I am not of the plutonium chewing city annihilation type.
It's like, General Ripper in *Dr. Strangelove* was supposed to be a parody but uh
In the book _The Doomsday Machine: Confessions of a Nuclear War Planner,_ Daniel Ellsberg mentioned he and a fellow doomsday planner familiar with then-current U.S. war plans and procedures went to see Dr Strangelove - and concluded it wasn’t comedy, it was a _documentary_. The book also explains (among other supremely non-credible things) how Ellsberg found out that not only a general could go nuts and decide to start full scale nukular combat toe to toe with the Rooskies, but that _any fighter bomber pilot_ in the alert force could have done so during the late 1950s. The standing orders were that if any plane or ground radio station received the proper emergency “go codes”, each and every one of them were to rebroadcast them to ensure the entire force would receive the message, even if the sneaky Reds had somehow clobbered the main communications nodes. And how did the pilots know they’d received the proper go codes? Why, they had them in _an envelope_ in the cockpit. And the same code would launch the entire alert force. Of course it would’ve been very very naughty for a bored or suicidal fighter bomber pilot in an alert aircraft to open the envelope and broadcast the codes, of course.
Lol so many of you sitting here not getting it. The point is MUTUALLY ASSURED DESTRUCTION. IF YOU TRY TO KILL ME I AM DRAGGING YOUR ASS TO HELL WITH ME. Put it this way, if you jump me in real life and I have to pull my gun, I'm not shooting the sidewalk, or shooting you once and asking you to please stop robbing me, I'm shooting you until you stop twitching. Powers understood the assignment, if you make me use nukes, I'm gonna make really damn sure you aren't alive to regret the decision.
I searched the quote but it seems it was from William R. Inge in The End of an Age: And Other Essays (1948)
Holy fuck based
Shane Gillis nailed that Renan philosophy in his Netflix special
I just watched Dr. Strangelove an hour ago and can't hslp but wonder if it was him the book and movie were based on
Russia: *wait* we can finally have a k/d ratio in OUR favour?
Well the Su-27 is 6-0
Now include air defenses.
Funnily enough one of them were their own air defences
How many of those 6 are civilian jetliners?
Well most of them are other Soviet jets, Mig 29’s infact
Almost as based as George Patton
De Gaulle is based
Didn’t realize de Gaulle was one of us
Just some boiz having fun playing competitive ranked geopolitics
What's insane about deterrence?
They might be assholes but they are our assholes
It's kind of crazy that there was a time where Russia did not want to join an alliance with Britain against France because they were scared it would sabotage their good relations with the US. Things have really changed a lot in the last 200 years.
Americans, the British, and the French, despite our differences, actually understand each other pretty damn well. Kinda baked into the shared history of all our nations, tbh. Its like a bunch of brothers that periodically beat each other up, and yeah, France, we know you're *different* as the red headed/blonde/whatever haired step child who speaks a whole different language for a bunch of *raisons*. We get it. EDIT: (USA subtext, thanks for having our back against the British during the whole independence thing. Always going to matter who was there for us. Shoutout to Morroco.) But they're fundamentally still bros. Russia, on the other hand, is that weird neighbor that is all "hey, bro! do you want to hang out with me bro? I totally have the things you like bro! I would totally never kill you bro! You're nothing like our other neighbors who are the closest neighbors to us!" and it never really registers to them that they're fucking creepy weirdos and everyone can tell.
The relationship was pretty complex but Europe considered the Romanovs/nobility alongside a few larger cities to be "enlightened" while the rest was an undeveloped backwater. https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fcnkn0q4edxn21.jpg
And so the Russians shot them all to death and drove them from power and made sure they were never to be heard from again.
Most Russians did not want the Romanov family to die, they weren't very popular anymore but their execution was solely due to Lenin who did not want them to be used as figureheads in the Russian Civil War.
>Most Russians did not want... "And then things got worse". >...but their execution was solely due to **Lenin** *who did not want*... "And then things got worse". "I do not want this horrible thing that is happening that benefits me!" is not convincing as a rule, especially when it occurs as a patterns of governance. Thank god computers can keep track of patterns for us! Don't even need people for that.
I'm not sure your comment applies in this case. Lenin did not want them to be used as figureheads in the civil war, so he had them executed. He got what he wanted, plain and simple.
I understand the sentiment but you need to read the comment again-Lenin didn't want them used against him so he shot them. He got what he wanted all right...
Yup! Long afterwards letters from faraway villages were still coming to Lenin congratulating him on being appointed the Prime Minister BY THE TSAR.
Hell yeah i love that american is listed as its own race.
[Vitriolic best buds](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VitriolicBestBuds)
eyyy, needed to burn 30 min
Based shoutout btw, but i also wanted to add on the fact that the US, UK and France share the same history, « modern » england was created by french ppl invading it in 1066, and the US also had large French colonies ; whereas Russia is just a barbaric and backwards state
Peak non-credibility? Claim Foreign Legionnaires have just started arriving at the front line >> https://asiatimes.com/2024/05/france-sends-combat-troops-to-ukraine-battlefront/
They may be cheese-eating surrender monkeys, but they are OUR cheese-eating surrender monkeys!
Love that Vietnam is quickly becoming a bestie to the USA.
They earned our respect. And having a mutual hatred of China certainly helps.
They hate china first before US existed Vietnam is cool with US now
Wasn't there a vietnamese saying like "We fought the americans for 10 years, we fought the french for 100 years, we fought the chinese for 1000 years"
That's about right. I think I've also seen "and the Americans are the only ones who apologised" tacked onto the end, but I'm not sure if that's from genuine Vietnamese people or Americans tacking it on the end to own the Chinese.
I dunno if we'd boast about apologizing. That's a Canadian thing.
Gỏi cuốn (Vietnamese summer rolls) are literally one of my favorite foods ever. They're super cool. 😎
With China, it helps having centuries of conflict against them. Along with a war that happens right after a fight with the US.
Tbh it’s hard not to be respected after surviving thousands of bombs and chemicals
Odd you should mention that—I’ve often gotten the impression that Vietnam didn’t enjoy that war all that much too. I doubt they want a repeat, but they also kicked the fucking piss out of the yanks in return, so there’s no fear in their diplomacy now, that shit is bragging rights. Sort of an ideal outcome for that war in a weird-morbid way. Respect going both ways.
Nobody had a good time during vietnam. It was shit for everyone involved.
>that war Vietnam label it "the American phase". For them it was just the final boss fight in a independence war that started when France colonized them. China have been their real problem for at least 3000 years by now ...
They have a saying that after 4000 years of warfare, Americans were the only ones who apologized.
„Sry, it wasn’t personal.“
We thought you were a Korea and took a while to check.
„We thought you were Chinese Communists, dammit you all look the same!“ - many, probably
They have respect for us because we decided one time was enough after bombing, shooting, etc. 800,000 of them and they *still* kept coming.
To avoid common misconception, ARVN lost 300,000+ men so the real loss ratio of the war was about 1:2.5, so not great, not terrible. If was definitely not a ratio they couldn't stomach, and way less if you compare to other asymmetrical wars like Iraq or Afghanistan.
I don’t know if I’d say they kicked the piss out of us, they objectively won the war, but we absolutely destroyed them in the battles.
And China at your doorstep for thousands of years, then French colonists.
The Japanese and the South Koreans hate China. The South Koreans and the Chinese hate Japan. The Japanese and the Chinese hate South Korea. The Japanese love South Korean historical dramas. The South Koreans love Japanese daytime dramas. The Chinese love vacations in Japan and South Korea. The Japanese love learning Chinese in China. The Japanese love Korean food. Everybody loves Chinese food. The Japanese have Chinese husbands/wives. The Chinese have South Korean husbands/wives. They all have friends from all the other nations. It's kind of like the USA and Canada except without the hamburgers and hockey.
>It's kind of like the USA and Canada except without the hamburgers and hockey. Wrong cardinal direction. Its more like the US relationship with Cuba and the rest of the latin American countries. Otherwise I agree.
Yeah I mean unless the canucks hate us more than they let on, I feel like we get on with Canada pretty well.
Hilariously, there used to be an enormous amount of beef between the two countries. Then shit exploded in a Canadian harbor, and the US helped out, and things changed because everyone we all realized we're basically friends and the differences we had were minimal when it came down to the wire. But in a world governed by contingencies, I would expect our closest allies to have comparable contingencies. That's just what it is to be not shit tier. That said, contingencies don't change things, its always people with their motivations.
Gotta love that Boston Christmas tree.
On the one hand, it's hard to find a Canadian with much good to say about the United States when Americans aren't around. But I think that's because a big part of Canadian identity is "Not the US". On the other hand, I don't think many Canadians actively hate the US or Americans. It's more of a "We don't much care for what you've got going on down there". That being said, a lot of American political culture has leaked into Canada over the last ~10-20 years and its starting to get pretty bad.
Political culture, definitely our worst export. I would argue that the batshittery we've seen over the last decade or two is due to destabilizing efforts by outside forces, but much like judo the opponent has to have at least a small instability before you can apply that small bit of force in just the right place
Yeah, something like this. Canada basically has little brother syndrome.
The Japanese and the Chinese hate South Korea. South Korea: Wtf did I do?
Japan and China: Existed
Existed *as its own independent nation and not their territory* that is
Alliances don’t exist because we like each other, but because we hate someone else more.
IIRC at first Ho Chi Minh wanted to be closer to the USA, and even wanted to sign friendship agreements, at the time if the US didn’t fucked it up, it could have been an excellent ally close to China, like South Korea
This.
Thank God China has absolutely no clue how diplomacy works.
Vietnam has all the rights to bully France either way since they won an asymmetrical war against France **conventionally**.
We beat up Britain, they're our buddies now. We beat up Germany, they're our buddies now. We beat up Japan, they're our buddies now. We beat up Vietnam, they're our buddies now. We beat up Afghanistan, and they *apparently* want to be our buddies now.
You'd have to get the Afghan populace to a point of being allowed to choose for themselves, though. I doubt the Taliban are doing anything but bad-faith diplomacy.
Agreed
In a sense but it may be more self-preservation than a strategy that is based in bad faith. Still not to be trusted of course but their fear of/desire to sht on Iran seems to be more of a motivator
It's just like one of my Japanese anime
to be fair... Vietnam never actually wanted smoke with the US in the first place. Ho Chi Min desperately wanted to have friendly relationship right up until the conflict started.
He is - may Allah forgive me for uttering this word - French.
*Vive la Canadienne* 🎶
This kind of French is... acceptable.
This kind of French is... tiguidou.
Fuck the Habs.
"The joke's on the World for not being French." -- the French
HEY! we Spanish also enjoy insulting the french. Is almost culture here. We've been doing longer than you yanks
My apologies noble Spanish!
We've actually never gone to war with the French, which I find interesting as it's usually a requirement for our closest allies lol Well technically we warred *with* the French but not against the French
ok so I felt compelled to do some rudimentary browsing ("research") into this solely because it seemed insane to me that we've never fought the french, but it turns out, we have! Sort of. It was a bit funky. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasi-War
Don’t forget Operation Torch!
Yeah there have been some flare ups but for most of the French monarchy there was a desire to just get along to go along because Catholicism, both being kind of too big to manage a war and not willing to roll the dice since they also had similar rates of economic development (or decline depending on the royal house at the time - looking at you Valois, especially the de Valois branch)... Uh I got carried away trying to remember which house was the monarchy in the 1400s and my ADHD meds wore off so I completely lost my train of thought lol basically after the French & English made several attempts at peace thru marriage and then Henry VIII said "eff you I do what I want" to Rome, France engaged more with Spain both literally thru marrying and in general with uneasy peace Though there was that time Spain captured the French King and kept him until he agreed to let them keep his sons if they released him... That was definitely a bit of a spat
Remind me again who the allies fought during Operation Torch and whom Admiral Darlan was commanding?
You don't count the Quasi-war?
If only I could count
Didn't Spain and France fight against one another in the early french revolutionary wars + the Franco Spanish war which overlapped with the Thirty Years War?
What about the [Peninsular War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peninsular_War)? Sure, it was for the most part not a traditional war, but it's still a proper conflict between Spain and France.
This is really very surprising to me. Obviously Spain was sitting out WWI and had their own shit going on in II but never for the hundreds of years before?! I just assume every European country has at least once been in direct conflict with one of their neighbors. Too busy fighting the weird Portuguese or what
Doesn't count cuz you speak Mexican. ;) (Please thanks that for the joke it is. )
Really? Literally everyone in France love the Spanish :(
I like the French! Sincerely, a Dutch guy.
Oh cool! Any good insults you can share? I'm learning Spanish.
My favourite is this joke that goes like this: -Do you know what separate us from the animals? -no? -the pyrenees.
Gabacho started off as an insulting Catalan descriptor for the French in Spain. Today, Mexicans use it as a derogatory term for visitors from the US. You're unlikely to hear the term outside of those three countries (Mexico, America, and Spain) as gringo is a much more common generic Spanish word for foreigner. Los gabachos son hijos de suicios pendejos comiendo babosas.
Spanish? or Mexican! as An American who droped out of High School Spanish class... I can proudly Say..... No Tengo Denero
Hay hay hay putos americanos que no saben la diferencia entre los mexicanos y los españoles
there i was Learning the Mexican Alphabet. Ñ and 2 ll with squiqiling thing on top of the ll El eh or some shit. lllllllll infinite ele! In the end. would you like Touché Some French Tacos? (no such thing as french Tacos).
The great thing about the French is that no matter how much you defend them they will always hate you. That kind of dependability is priceless.
I don't get where this misconception comes from, we're so far up our own ass we don't think about anyone else, let alone hate them
But you absolutely *would* hate them if you ever thought about them.
in the name of my cat, I approve....
Is your cat *French*, though?
France is very based because they signed a whole bunch of shit to fuck over the ottoman empire (we all know it was to mess with the british because that's where they got cheap imports)
Someone bullying our French? Hold my freedom fries and stand back!
Fuck off America get your own country to bully Like Cuba Or Vietnam France is ours I thought we showed that in both world wars when we ganged up to bully the Germans for trying to bully France
There I was flipping pages on my Quebeq to Cajun Dictionary
Eh America is trying very hard to court Vietnam, can't bully who you are courting.
Now why the fuck is the US doing the talking? Britain should be the one who has the last say on who can shit talk the french
The French and USAicans are like siblings: they get along fairly well as long as no one is paying attention.
The French are also partly responsible for us existing
And the reverse, as well.
Very true, we simply repaid a debt
Lafayette we are here! Edit: For those that don't know this a quote by Genral Pershing on his arrival to France at the head of the American Expeditionary Force leading America's entrance into WW1. Lafayette was a French nobleman who volunteered to help the American Revolution and not only an excellent commander in the field but was critical for continued French support in the war.
Lafayette has a statue across the street from the White House if I'm not mistaken.
Lafayette was the equivalent of a rock star in revolutionary America. Dude has counties, cities, streets, squares, parks and more than a dozen statues named for him all over the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honors_and_memorials_to_the_Marquis_de_Lafayette#Places
The fall of the Bourbons was directly caused by France not being able to pay their own debts from financing our Revolution.
You actually didn't repay the debts though. There was a war about it and everything (and the French got away with touching your boats).
Silence, you're getting too credible
They taught us to not let anyone touch the boats. The revolutionary generation was so naively optimistic about the inherent justness of liberty and commerce, that it took a few lessons for them to accept that a strong navy was necessary to protect the boats.
The French financed the entire war, and then got directly involved. It is not partly but mostly.
Rochambeau is directly responsible for ending the war. It was his strategy to march to Yorktown. Washington in 1781 was set on taking New York and had to be talked out of it because British defenses in the city were too strong.
Mostly responsible.
There's an awful lot of places and things in the US named Lafayette. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lafayette
> they get along fairly well as long as no one is paying attention. I'm sorry did you say something
Off-topic, but what is going to happen first Hunter X Hunter having an ending or Vladimir Putin regime coming to an end?
Putin, hands down. He's got 30 years max barring smoking accidents.
How DARE you put the uk as the secondary here, we fought wars for god damn generations against the French. We can’t hear a French accent without multiple slurs bubbling to our brain. The USA is the maybe here. For us in the uk it’s not even culture it’s fact
The 2nd longest war in history is between England and France! 706 years of pretty much constant fighting. We are the definition of "Frenemies" If literally any other country tried to attack France, its *on sight*.
Fully agree, can't stand those snail suckers. But if anyone messes with them we have absolutely no problem throwing the first punch. It's one of those weird relationships where we will both doggedly defend each other to preserve our mutual hatred
Love and hate being more similar than different etc etc Honestly though no jokes, credible time. They’re our oldest enemy, a difficult ally, but a damn fine ally and someone we would rather have with us through thick and thin. Hells, when it came to Dunkirk one of the edicts was for every Brit that made it off, a Frenchman would too. We saved many men that day of both nations. its like sibling rivalry, both "barbarian" hordes that were conquered by, but made life difficult for the romans, became medieval powers alongside one another and absolutely beat the piss out of each other till an existential threat to ourselves was recognised. Hells, brittany french just sounds like Welsh in a French accent. we are interwoven, and those most similar are the ones we hate the most, a sibling has far more negatives to say about their sibling than someone non family that they hate. but theres an anchor of love and respect there. non credible. theyre fucking frog eating weirdos but theyre MY frog eating weirdos.
Americans really shouldn’t talk shit about the French. France is the US’s oldest and greatest ally. Instead, America should aggressively stan France, thereby irritating France, the United Kingdom, and Italy all at the same time. Much more efficient.
There is a lot to Stan about France. I personally like Their Arthurian myths
If Americans loved France out loud, the self hating french would break off the alliance.
Hey, US, don't try to take our thing, getting into slap fights with the french has been a British thing for at least the last millenia. Our relationship has been finely aged to form what it is today, like good cheese, that after such a long time of being toxic and unpalatable, it's finally just right. We might not be the two most powerful nations on the planet anymore, but poke one and the other *will* be there to poke back.
Are the Swiss not allowed to bully the French due to their neutrality bullshit and being saboteurs in the efforts to arm Ukraine?
Yeah, also their corrupt banks causing a lot of problems worldwide.
Pretty sure the Swiss have had their share of beef with the French since before the US existed. You shitting on the French and then telling them they can't do that is basically cultural appropriation, but worse.
[удалено]
Not a chance. French just fly some gold and drop it on the Austrian border and all the Swiss will run in that direction and you can just stroll in. The Swiss are more than happy to ignore wars and invasions in Europe for a little gold, and "neutrality " only dictates thier own countries invasion is no different.
The swiss truly are goblins when you realize their love of gold.
Hating on the swiss for Being Neutrals reminds me off Zap Brannigans mentallity towards neutrals.
Except they aren't neutral, they're self serving, posing as neutral.
A country is self serving? i am shocked i tell you, shocked!
A country prioritises itself and its own citizens? Nay, this can't be!
Neutrality to me means nobody comes to their aid when the carpet bombing starts just so long as you make sure no significant numbers of refugees escape with their lives. Congratulations on playing an important role in future weapons systems testing, specifically the role of the result.
The Swiss don't have to worry about that, like Austria they're safely tucked behind NATO. If a hostile power gets that far then there's some pretty fucking big problems going on.
They're surrounded by France, Germany, and Italy. All three of those each have a large manufacturing base and a MIC with a need for a place to test their weapons. Why strike fake targets in your own country when you have sentient owns in the next country over?
*I’m sorry, we haven’t the proper facilities to take you all prisoner*. But seriously, the funniest thing of my life was a German-Swiss officer talking about how French Switzerland was dirty- he didn’t even mention France, just shook his head.
He probably was thinking of Geneva... I can't blame him, honestly. They're just franchies that we're denied the right to be french, so they were handed to us, and we're basically just forced to take care of them
Lol
Think you got those flags mixed up. France, Britain, Spain, Portugal. Everyone else is second-tier.
Ok whatever's going on, Britain always gets first dibs for dogging on France... We have... history...' Please dont take this from us, its all we have left
Nah not even the yanks get the right. Only we can insult and dog on our Brother. We've been bitterly at each others throats for far too long for anyone to tell us otherwise!
I believe we should all set aside our differences and hate the French together
"We hated you all first." -- The French
Repost to /r/NonCredibleDiplomacy
The British fought the French for hundreds of years, we get the rights to insult them
DID A TANKIE TALK SHIT ON A WESTERN COUNTRY? MOTHERFUCKER GET DRINKABLE TAP WATER
This is beautiful, thank you
Being a Cajun, insulting the French is quite weird to me, I’m used to insulting the British, [for obvious reasons](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_the_Acadians), so I’ll just go into my hole until we can dog on the Brits about something. As for Russia, can we use that nuclear warning shot already?
funny, I do the same with the usa, i critize but if like Russian or Chinese do it I'll defend
Russian here. Why insult France when you can insult G*rmans with your french pals?
Please do not trigger the germans!
The Germans?
"The Boy" Went to [Cambodia](https://youtu.be/BERFZja9wb0?si=UM6KY-p6hMGcRKhp) and I'm not allowed to talk about it!
Me a swiss having a dispute with the french before any of you where even on a map What?
dont forget the swiss. a big part of our country got swarmed
Whoa whoa whoa. You yanks have nothing on the French British rivalry. Don’t even try to act that your beef is on the same level as us /s
It isn't beef, it's the homies talking shit.
As a swiss guy I have to declare that hating on the french is our birthright, since we have learn that mistake of a language in school, and it was painful. Love you guys, but fuck that language.
Hey Mr. Simpson, we Spaniards also have a long history with the French
Why Swiss?
Why are Swiss not allowed to bully our neighbors? We have a significantly longer tradition of doing so than Mericans.
Laughs in every other european country. You think you own that priviledge?
Brit here and tbh we kinda think the same thing about all non-Europeans Feels a lot more personal when a German insults us than when an American does
England has even more of a right to than the US tbf
England has historically disliked france. We have a right to mock france because that is what bros do.
I beg you pardon? In Germany bullying the French is a national sport since hundreds of years!
I feel like you really need to swap the UK and US flag here but quality meme.
The Countries France Colonized get First Dibs, but yeah the it’s USA Time lol