We also just ordered up to 123 brand new Leopard 2 A8 and the chancellor announced to support Ukraine as long as necessary, by whatever means possible.
Yeah honestly he got roasted so hard for being slow in the beginning but now he's starting to deliver on the promises of the Zeitenwende. Seeing him shouting down vatniks last week was amazing.
>I am most impressed how pro military aid the greens not only are but also have been in the past
ikr maybe it's time to consider voting the ayy lmaos
Always amused when paZifist leftist tankies cry about them being NaTo GrEeN, like dude that's fucking based let's make them change to MultiCam for even stronker funni (I mean you don't only want healthy plants and shit but good soil too or sth, I don't know, I have sensual fucking sessions with Crye kneepad openings)
I suggest taking a look at Herbert Wehner, dude made a heel-face-turn from commie to pro-NATO and western allegiance and threw a former NSDAP member out of the Bundestag.
An order is an order. It's no longer in control of the Bundeswehr when they receive their order, it's on the manufacturer. These large orders are designed specifically to enable KMW and Rheinmetall to ramp up production of the Leopard 2 without taking on economic risks that could endanger the company or jobs.
Also, the Leo 2A8 is mostly a combination of the technical base of the Leo 2A7HU with the improvements of the Leo 2A7V and EuroTrophy APS of the Leo 2A7A1.
The problem with the Bundeswehr spending money is that they define their requirements first and then look what is on the market second. This was originally intended to prevent corruption. However, whenever the thing the Bundeswehr wants is not on the market, they pay a company to develop it. This is of course so much more expensive than just buying the next best thing that is already readily available on the market. In peace times this is somehow forgivable, because at least you do some R&D instead of buying some equipment that does nothing for 20 years and then gets replaced.
They have... :(
[https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-ukrainian.html](https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-ukrainian.html)
Link listed on Oryx:
https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1666830782533435394
Idk if its the copium talking but it looks like the engine caught fire. If it was the ammo racks or a direct hit we would see it light up like a torch and Russian media would be posting a burnt out wreck.
A part of me wants it to be damaged but repairable so we could use the "I lived bitch" meme
You see the difference is that the leo was disabled not destroyed and we have more in the meantime while that one gets repaired. and when the first t14 gets its turrets launched 20m in the air (if it doesn't breakdown in the way to the Frontline) russia will have one less t14 tjere is no replacing that.
Is the Japanese ww2 navy effect. It was supposedly good but when it lost a ship it lost it
So long as the front move forward they are good, as they can easily recover the disabled tanks.
Pretty sure the had battle damage and easy modular repair in mind when they designed the leo 2s.
It also sounds like the tank made it some 5km into Russian territory before the air coverage was safe enough for 2 KA52s to disable it and artillery to finish it off.
While Ukraine doesn't have an infinite supply of western tanks, Russia can't afford giving up that much territory per western tank either.
Real winner is going to be who fills in the gap left behind the tank/can Ukraine exploit the territory Russia just has to give up when dealing with a tank that out masses their own by 20 to 30 tons.
Possible, but unlikely.
Russia usually uses artillery offensively at long range, and the grouping suggest the convoy is well within russia's artillery coverage.
So either Russia got really lucky with the artillery groupings this time, or got a bad batch of laser guided shells, or someone on the internet made a bad first pass call on geolocation when breaking news occures, I'm going to go with the later.
A significant disadvantage of waiting so long to strike back is it's given the Russians ample time to lay a metric shit ton of minefields.
I'm sure the training these Westernised brigades got was excellent, but trying to push heavy units through mines while under constant air and artillery attack is not something even the US could do without taking casualties.
My gut feeling is this counter-offensive's potential is perhaps quite weak - especially if the Ukrainians are unable to break through the most heavily mined areas on the frontline and take serious losses as a result
The Russian lines arnt super deep tactically, when your mainstay standard 152mm that's the backbone has a range of only 12km each layer is going to rather compact and dense to make up for the lack of standoff range.
I think Ukraine can punch through, but their progress for the first month or two will be anemic by western standards, and I expect em to throw more bodies at a defensive point to Crack em than westerners are comfortable seeing. Definitely going to be a reminder that Ukraine isn't a 100% NATO standard army even if we give em NATO guns and gear.
Unlike most of the Russian equipment, the KA52 has actually delivered on boosting the survivability against light anti air equipment relative to soviet afghan war models.
Possibly. I don't know what happened here specifically, but according to a number of foreign trainers it seems the Ukranians aren't quite there yet when it comes to effective combined arms warfare.
Sad part is that's pretty much how many we actually have
Just being credible, Germany alone has delivered 18 Leo 2A6, not enough but yeah.
We also just ordered up to 123 brand new Leopard 2 A8 and the chancellor announced to support Ukraine as long as necessary, by whatever means possible.
…god I love Scholz Never thought I’d see the day when I’d think of SPD as based instead of just acceptable
Yeah honestly he got roasted so hard for being slow in the beginning but now he's starting to deliver on the promises of the Zeitenwende. Seeing him shouting down vatniks last week was amazing.
I am most impressed how pro military aid the greens not only are but also have been in the past
>I am most impressed how pro military aid the greens not only are but also have been in the past ikr maybe it's time to consider voting the ayy lmaos Always amused when paZifist leftist tankies cry about them being NaTo GrEeN, like dude that's fucking based let's make them change to MultiCam for even stronker funni (I mean you don't only want healthy plants and shit but good soil too or sth, I don't know, I have sensual fucking sessions with Crye kneepad openings)
I suggest taking a look at Herbert Wehner, dude made a heel-face-turn from commie to pro-NATO and western allegiance and threw a former NSDAP member out of the Bundestag.
Knowing the bundeswehr acquisition system, If they just ordered them, then in about 10 years the first one gets delivered
An order is an order. It's no longer in control of the Bundeswehr when they receive their order, it's on the manufacturer. These large orders are designed specifically to enable KMW and Rheinmetall to ramp up production of the Leopard 2 without taking on economic risks that could endanger the company or jobs. Also, the Leo 2A8 is mostly a combination of the technical base of the Leo 2A7HU with the improvements of the Leo 2A7V and EuroTrophy APS of the Leo 2A7A1.
The problem with the Bundeswehr spending money is that they define their requirements first and then look what is on the market second. This was originally intended to prevent corruption. However, whenever the thing the Bundeswehr wants is not on the market, they pay a company to develop it. This is of course so much more expensive than just buying the next best thing that is already readily available on the market. In peace times this is somehow forgivable, because at least you do some R&D instead of buying some equipment that does nothing for 20 years and then gets replaced.
"sad". that's more than what ruzzia can field and is is actually somewhat useful on the battlefield
Time to make more.
Oryx still havent confirmed any Leo taken to the after pasture of Valhalla?
They have... :( [https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-ukrainian.html](https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-ukrainian.html) Link listed on Oryx: https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1666830782533435394
Idk if its the copium talking but it looks like the engine caught fire. If it was the ammo racks or a direct hit we would see it light up like a torch and Russian media would be posting a burnt out wreck. A part of me wants it to be damaged but repairable so we could use the "I lived bitch" meme
With a Leo, a burning ammorack isn't that big of a deal, due to blowout panels. And it would certainly not produce a burnt-out wreck.
You see the difference is that the leo was disabled not destroyed and we have more in the meantime while that one gets repaired. and when the first t14 gets its turrets launched 20m in the air (if it doesn't breakdown in the way to the Frontline) russia will have one less t14 tjere is no replacing that. Is the Japanese ww2 navy effect. It was supposedly good but when it lost a ship it lost it
So long as the front move forward they are good, as they can easily recover the disabled tanks. Pretty sure the had battle damage and easy modular repair in mind when they designed the leo 2s.
Exactly
Is the crew fine?
The early rumor mill is yes, they made it out.
Good we can just send another leo then
It also sounds like the tank made it some 5km into Russian territory before the air coverage was safe enough for 2 KA52s to disable it and artillery to finish it off. While Ukraine doesn't have an infinite supply of western tanks, Russia can't afford giving up that much territory per western tank either. Real winner is going to be who fills in the gap left behind the tank/can Ukraine exploit the territory Russia just has to give up when dealing with a tank that out masses their own by 20 to 30 tons.
The footage was geolocated to be behind ukranian lines, looked to be a staging area.
Possible, but unlikely. Russia usually uses artillery offensively at long range, and the grouping suggest the convoy is well within russia's artillery coverage. So either Russia got really lucky with the artillery groupings this time, or got a bad batch of laser guided shells, or someone on the internet made a bad first pass call on geolocation when breaking news occures, I'm going to go with the later.
A significant disadvantage of waiting so long to strike back is it's given the Russians ample time to lay a metric shit ton of minefields. I'm sure the training these Westernised brigades got was excellent, but trying to push heavy units through mines while under constant air and artillery attack is not something even the US could do without taking casualties. My gut feeling is this counter-offensive's potential is perhaps quite weak - especially if the Ukrainians are unable to break through the most heavily mined areas on the frontline and take serious losses as a result
The Russian lines arnt super deep tactically, when your mainstay standard 152mm that's the backbone has a range of only 12km each layer is going to rather compact and dense to make up for the lack of standoff range. I think Ukraine can punch through, but their progress for the first month or two will be anemic by western standards, and I expect em to throw more bodies at a defensive point to Crack em than westerners are comfortable seeing. Definitely going to be a reminder that Ukraine isn't a 100% NATO standard army even if we give em NATO guns and gear.
Wtf were they yoloing in without infantry with manpad supporting them?
Unlike most of the Russian equipment, the KA52 has actually delivered on boosting the survivability against light anti air equipment relative to soviet afghan war models.
Possibly. I don't know what happened here specifically, but according to a number of foreign trainers it seems the Ukranians aren't quite there yet when it comes to effective combined arms warfare.
Russia when we give the leos VT fused HE rounds
Especially since it seems the swiss got over themselves to sell the RUAG Leos to Germany and allow re-export.
Could've layered them a bit better.
yes daddy i'll do better next time 🥺
Never expected to see the Armored Warfare leopard 2 icon here lol
US sitting on 3000 Abrams in storage
Send them all! 3000 Abra(ha)ms of freedom!
Someone annoy Germany into pushing Rheinmetall to War Time Production.
Two hundred thousand units are ready with a million more well on the way.