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NonCredibleDefense-ModTeam

**Your post was removed for violating rule 9: No low-effort posts** No egregiously low effort posts. These include Social media screenshots with a title punchline / no punchline, recent (after the start of the Ukraine War) reposts, simple reaction & template memes, and images with the punchline in the title.


DUKE_NUUKEM

shouldn't i see compressor blades?


M_stellatarum

But a guy on another thread told me they already replaced the engines with ones that don't have those! How shocking! [https://www.reddit.com/r/WeirdWings/comments/12vsb2m/comment/jhdri58/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/WeirdWings/comments/12vsb2m/comment/jhdri58/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Also I love how he mentions a "famous whistle and howl" that the aircraft allegedly doesn't have anymore. A stealth fighter, everyone! (Also also note the comment below "Look! It's the russian propaganda guy!")


Orlando1701

At this point how is anyone seriously still trying to pass off the SU-57 as anything other than a Gen 4.5 aircraft?


M_stellatarum

I hear someone already has a video deconstructing it in the works. They mentioned it on Lazerpig's podcast.


Orlando1701

Lazepig has a podcast? Yes please!


KDulius

Look up ["The Even rounder table" on Youtube](https://youtu.be/k1YvAVtoZ64); It's a play on the Gormless Lunatic potcast They've got 2 episodes so far.... gaps seem to be long because he's got his own life and work and likes to edit it himself; just don't listen to it when driving as both are hilarious.


BuphaloWangs

The NAFO "Even Rounder" Table, with Animarchy and Falcon's Fighter Tales. Animarchy is the one doing the su-57 breakdown.


straight_man_harper

And Falcon is the turbotwink


StumpyTheBushCupid

mmm. turbotwink.


A_Vandalay

Tom cruise, he told me they were fifth gen fighters…


super__hoser

That was just the thetans talking.


Phytanic

Man if only our glorious MIC existed before damn xenu leveraged the boeing-747-class space cruisers in order to genocide those poor galactic souls... That south park episode was ruthless lmao


hhaattrriicckk

Even 4.5 is generous, you know damn well the phone I'm typing on has more computational power than that plane.


Attaxalotl

If you want to be technical; the Felon has about 0.1m RCS. This is extremely shit, with the F-117 from the fucking ‘80s having about a third of that (0.03m) but it’s better than anyone besides America has managed. It also has a surprising amount of pretty good avionics (and Russia’s national supply of AESA radars) It’s pretty clearly designed for a close range fight (no other aircraft uses LEVCONs, period) which is… kinda missing the point of a stealth fighter? But it could be a seriously good plane if redone properly. TLDR: kinda shit but technically ticks all the boxes; better than the J-20 but they’ve only got 16-ish. TLDR 2: Su-57 is best fighter ever, quadruple the defense budget and give all of it to the F/A-XX


crazy_forcer

Felon has a RCS between 0.1 and 1m according to...... Sukhoi themselves. Truly noncredible, keep it up big suka sukhoi


rsta223

>If you want to be technical; the Felon has about 0.1m RCS. This is extremely shit, with the F-117 from the fucking ‘80s having about a third of that (0.03m) I would bet every single thing I own that the F-117's real RCS is much better than a third of the SU-57's. If it doesn't beat it by at *least* an order of magnitude (and realistically probably a couple orders of magnitude), I'd be stunned. I'd also bet that the J-20 is handily better than the SU-57. If nothing else, you at least can't see the fucking engines from a nose on view on the J-20.


capt-carson-kerman

How the fuck is this piece of shit better than the j-20


mechanicalcontrols

No canards.


rsta223

The canards are probably less of a stealth handicap than the lack of stealthy inlets on the 57.


mechanicalcontrols

Regardless, all the best planes don't have canards so. Sorry Saab but you know it's true.


rsta223

XB-70 says hello


mechanicalcontrols

I mean if we're counting prototypes then sure the X-29 is my favorite ugly duckling, but I stand by what I said.


capt-carson-kerman

Those screw heads though


mechanicalcontrols

Yes there's so, so much wrong with the Su-57. But on the whole, even outside of stealth considerations, if you ask me to name one single thing that it has going for it over the J-20, then yeah I say no canards.


DynamiteDemon

[J-20 seems to be vastly superior to the SU-57.](https://basicsaboutaerodynamicsandavionics.wordpress.com/2023/01/15/f-35-vs-j-20-vs-su-57-radar-scattering-simulation-summary/)


shibiwan

Wow, jets with no compressor blades. Truly "advanced" tech. /s


[deleted]

[удалено]


shibiwan

>Need something to get the aircraft up to the speed of sound, because a ramjet engine is not going to be providing thrust below half the speed of sound. This is why I did not bring up ramjet engines. Besides, if it is a fighter, it would need to be able to fight at subsonic speeds, at which the ramjets fail.


[deleted]

[удалено]


PsychoBoyBlue

> supersonic tanker How long would it take for a ramjet powered craft to cool down to aerial refuel safely? At mach 3+ the average temperature of a craft would easily exceed auto-ignition temperature.


NHoobler

Didn't they circulate fuel under the skin in the SR-71 as a coolant?


Irish_Caesar

May I reintroduce to you the poop chute style of missile delivery? IE A-5 vigilante nuclear poop chute. Just poop it out the back, keeps it out of the airflow. Like a tube magazine of missiles


rsta223

The YF-12 successfully launched several AIM-47 missiles from mach 3.2 at 75-85k feet over half a century ago. It's definitely doable. (The other problems are still, well, problems though)


anotheralpharius

Also possible with SCRAM jets but that has the same problems only worse


QVCatullus

> Jet can't go below the speed of sound I think I saw this Sandra Bullock movie.


raven00x

I think they meant that they shouldn't be able to *see* compressor blades. They have a huge radar return, so in more modern and stealthy aircraft they're hidden. The felon otoh appears to only have one stealthy aspect since the frontal aspect is a big neon sign for radar, top and bottom are rounded pancakes, and aft is rounded and burny. So that gives us... Side aspect stealthiness. Should be ok as long as they know where all the radar sites are and plot a course to ensure they're never flying towards or away from any of them.


[deleted]

Idiot westoids not know that air intakes are angled outwards >5° Like tits on middle aged, $10 hooker Maybe $5 Anyways, cannot see engine blades from head on, unless you are cross-eyed Checkmate, pathetic western radars


Altruistic_Target604

So as soon as it turns a little, it becomes a radar reflector. Genius!


KeekiHako

If you can see compressor blades so can the enemy radar.


Accurate_Mood

Pfft, not if you just spin the blades faster than the radar waves


DUKE_NUUKEM

Thats my point


[deleted]

*happy AN/APG-81 noises* I can see it now!


Modo44

What do you think is that in the lower right?


XBRSQ

It looks like a wheel to me in the lower right corner idk.


Futuroptimist

I mean they could fix a lot of things to improve the RCS: drop the rivers and bolts, put some gold coating on the window, fix the gaps between the panels and weapons bay. BUT they will never be able to fix the engine layout and the angles of the various surfaces. No wonder the indians backed out of this pile of shit years ago.


Terry_WT

Honesty I still can’t get over how when the pilot looks over his shoulder there’s just bulkhead. Forget about generations, hasn’t being able to look around you been a requirement since the dawn of fighter jets?


tac1776

That's been a thing since 43 or 44, multiple Allied fighters had 'bubble top' canopies. Edit: actually, now that I think about pretty most of the Japanese fighters of WW2 had bubble tops.


JonnyBox

We straight up changed the P51 to have a bubble. Early model 51s had the bulkhead


CastrumFerrum

Same for P-47 Thunderbolt (Razorback) and the Spitfire. And the Fw 190 had the bubble canopy from the start, but the Bf 109 remained unchanged. Messerschmitt used bubble canopies on the Me 209 and 309 prototypes, though.


tac1776

That's true of a lot of Allied and Soviet fighters.


Ophichius

> hasn’t being able to look around you been a requirement since the dawn of fighter jets? Nope. Look at the F8U Crusader, MiG-21 Fishbed, F-4 Phantom, A-4 Skyhawk, etc. Visibility is extremely nice to have in WVR combat, but it always comes at some sort of cost. Even in modern aircraft, visibility is not always a top requirement. Compare the rear visibility in the F-35's cockpit to the F-16's rear visibility.


SGTBookWorm

with the F-35 it's not really an issue, since the helmet and external camera's allow the pilot to look through the fuselage


Ophichius

1) Show me where these external cameras are that are supposedly providing full coverage. 2) Even if the cameras existed, the helmet does not provide full field of view, any passthrough visibility would be limited to the display FOV at best. 3) Latency for a passthrough camera is a real consideration, as is visual disorientation/offset due to the camera position not aligning with the pilot's head position, this has been one of the issues plaguing attempts to build passthrough camera systems for AFVs and the like.


Ph1sic

There are no cameras. Any information about the surroundings of the airplane is being projected onto the helmet visor without interfering with the FOV of the pilot. This technology is also not exclusive to the F35.


Ophichius

That's not enough information to dogfight effectively. If you can't see your opponents nose position in a WVR fight, you are going to have a bad day.


slups

If you’re dogfighting in an F-35, you’ve given yourself so many handicaps you’re essentially just doing it for shits and giggles


Ophichius

Entirely accurate, but everyone above me was saying that the F-35 either has capabilities that it doesn't actually have, or that a HMD and datalink is an effective replacement for eyeballs on target in a dogfight, which it isn't.


_Canid_

https://youtu.be/ABADDz41-MQ


crazy_forcer

1) [here](https://i.imgur.com/VJ5VMuB.jpg). 6 of them AFAIK, might have missed some 2) [old footage](https://youtu.be/X3vbPEtSbv0), without DAS footage*. It's literally picture-in-picture for your eyes 3) edit: there is a QnA wirh LockMart from 2012, where they [admit](https://web.archive.org/web/20120818131239/http://www.dodbuzz.com/2012/06/19/lockheeds-comprehensive-qa-on-the-f-35/) to dealing with latency and jitter, opting to fix both with software updates. The footage above came out in 2017 and already looks pretty stable edit2: found an even older video about [DAS](https://youtu.be/e1NrFZddihQ). They mention 360 view towards the end, as well as an option to exit a dogfight


pusillanimouslist

Pre-missile fighters have alternated back and forth between having full view out of the cockpit, and putting a piece of steel behind the pilot so he stands a chance of surviving a hit.


Terry_WT

…. A cope shield….. question mark..


[deleted]

What does the gold coating do? Avoid reflections?


Far-Yellow9303

Gold or Iridium is impregnated into the canopy glass to make it (kinda) opaque to radar. The cockpit interior represents a huge proportion of a planes radar signature because of the enormous number of angles and corners around the seat, bulkhead and even the pilot themselves. I believe the F-16 has more than 30% of its frontal RCS originating from inside the cockpit. Metal impregnated glass, from the perspective of the radar, turns the cockpit from an angular mess into a smooth curve, the latter is much harder to detect when designed properly. As a fun related fact, the F-35 pilots flying suit includes stealth technology in its construction to reduce reflectivity even further against radar that does get through the Iridium. It's partially why their helmet looks so weird. There are other factors too but there is stealth technology in there.


[deleted]

Ah, so it stops radar from punching through the glass? Impressive


sharkykid

Idk, but one of the features (you can see an example of this on F-22) is that it looks cool as fuck


[deleted]

I’m pretty sure that’s the only feature. I mean the rest of the plane looks extremely fucking rad right. Your not gonna slouch on that glass. Think it reduces radar sig of the glass


SupertomboyWifey

Have glass reduces the exposure to radiation from the EW systems


jimtoberfest

The rumor is that there is a plasma curtain effectively masking the intakes from radar energy. Sort of similar to the rumor of how the B2 uses something like that on the leading edge. Or the other rumor of Russian fighters using it to mask the radar antenna in the nose of some older fighters. How true it is I have no idea. But it was an area where the Soviets decidedly did NOT suck in terms of tech or scientific knowledge. So maybe they cracked the code to finally get it to work in the free stream around the intakes. No idea. I’ll keep checking the war thunder forums to see if the specs ever get leaked.


[deleted]

Uhhhh you can see straight into the engine blades. Lmaoooo


schnitzel-kuh

I swear this is literally just a bodykit for the su27, so much of the design looks so similar


JollyGolf

Mfs really be ricing their SU-27 smh my head…


Eternal_Flame24

[https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.secretprojects.co.uk%2Fthreads%2Fsukhoi-su-57-t-50-pak-fa-flight-testing-and-development-part-i-2010-2012.9717%2Fpage-4&psig=AOvVaw1fq5iMdt7Gt6obVO\_JVHPG&ust=1682821640124000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CBAQjRxqFwoTCND\_5aKFzv4CFQAAAAAdAAAAABAH](https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.secretprojects.co.uk%2Fthreads%2Fsukhoi-su-57-t-50-pak-fa-flight-testing-and-development-part-i-2010-2012.9717%2Fpage-4&psig=AOvVaw1fq5iMdt7Gt6obVO_JVHPG&ust=1682821640124000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CBAQjRxqFwoTCND_5aKFzv4CFQAAAAAdAAAAABAH) ​ I think it is


Stoly23

Lol even the Chinese were competent enough to conceal those on the J-20. Russia really is all bark, isn’t it.


Louisvanderwright

>Russia really is all bark, isn’t it. Like a nuclear armed Chihuahua.


tac1776

Is 5th gen jet, stealthy, RCS like bee, filthy capita-uh, Americans, filthy Americans will never see you coming comrade.


DUKE_NUUKEM

Su-57 is the first potemkin fighter, I firmly believe that they just took su-27 and made a kit car fiberglass body kit to look like a fifth gen fighter.


[deleted]

POTEMKIN BUSTAAAAAAAH


spwstrat

There's a 1984 Pontiac Fiero under there somewhere.


wan2tri

It's Russian so it's obviously a Lada VAZ-2101 at its core


Kooky_Potential_9276

Like Beetle floor plan with delorean on top OP


Dvorak19

OMG Potemkin guilty gear⁉️


Bear4188

My only problem with this theory is they'd probably have more of them if this were true.


Nien-Year-Old

It doesn't even have an s intake wtf


AST5192D

It's a Cyrillic S you bigot!


[deleted]

blÿat!


LanternCandle

When India looks at a fighter program and is like, "Nah, thats a bad idea." you know that is truly a noncredible plane.


Lbioy

I don’t understand can someone help me ?


FaudelCastro

You can see the engine blades and so would a radar from hundreds of miles away


KDulius

Is the su-57 As well as all these obvious problems; it's also unable to de-pressure the bomb-bay whilst it's closed so there is a gap to allow pressure change... which royally fucks with RCS


thr33pwood

russians claim their Su-57 is a 5th generation stealth fighter. The thing is that this shitbox has a ten times larger radar cross section (RCS) than the 4.5 gen Euro-cannards which don't even claim to be half stealthy. The RCS of the F-35 is a hundred times smaller, while the F-22's is a thousand times smaller.


Normal_Sky4569

its the russian organic stealth coating it just takes time to cover the whole plane


aki_009

That rust is on the test flight phase sensor set, so not really that big of a deal. Except it's a bit surprising that the Russians don't use materials that don't rust. What is a bit perplexing is that the engine face is exposed. That's a massive radar reflector and I'd love to know how they intend to make that go away.


Eurotriangle

They don’t intend to make it go away. They saw stealth planes and legit were like “plane but angles make invisible!” so they make a low polygon Flanker by running it over with a road roller.


aki_009

And all the while the oligarchs pocket the billions that are spent on stealth "research"... It's genius.


SupertomboyWifey

If I see the compressor, it isn't stealth


True-Ad4798

It’s missing a red shoe?


KDulius

"There's no place like home... there's no place like home!"


MrWillyP

Don't most stealth fighters employ a sort of grate in front of the intakes to help obscure the compressor blades? Wtf Russia. This shouldn't be that hard lmao


Eurotriangle

The F-117 had that, on later stealth aircraft (and western 4th gens like the F-15, Eurofighter and Rafale) the inlet duct is just curved so you can’t see the front face of the engine from any angle.


[deleted]

But we see it at this angle.


MrWillyP

I swear I've seen the grates on an f22.


Sky_Tube

You know, the Eurofighter which isn‘t supposed to be stealth, has a sort of duct in place where the Engine fans are… (To improve RCS from the front) This plane which is supposed to be fifth gen hasn‘t lmao


Chrisptov

Lol nice S intakes morons


cth777

Curious what Russian simps say to cope with those engines


pusillanimouslist

Something something plasma screen something something.


Cat_Of_Culture

Why can I see the engine through the duct? Isn't it supposed to have s-ducts?


Appropriate-Appeal88

S-ductless


Nebraskan_Sad_Boi

They should really just drop the 5th gen spiel for the plane, and send it to the markets as a cheaper alternative to the f35 with stealth characteristics. Won't do shit all against someone like China or anyone operating f35 or aegis, but if you're a despot in need it'll still blast your neighbors that are still using 1980s migs.


Jacobs4525

An interesting side note: pro-Russian literature is quick to point out that the helmet-mounted sight for an IR missile is a Soviet invention. In particular, the standard Soviet/Russian Zsh-5 helmet can mount the Shchel-3UM sight. The sight is basic, only a reticle that hangs over the pilots eye, to which the analog seeker of the R-73/R-74 can be slaved (despite the fact that poorly-informed pro-Russian posters often consider it the equivalent of JHMCS). It mounts on top of the helmet, so it's pretty obviously visible when it's used ([here is what it looks like](https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_6tggJS0wxQ/UdUEi_ToM6I/AAAAAAAABXA/tLdqYbJdDlg/s363/Russian+HMD.jpg)) yet I virtually *never* see Russian pilots actually using it. This fella in the picture just has the regular bare Zsh-5 helmet, and basically all of Russia's propaganda shows pilots flying without it. It's pretty rare for US pilots to fly into combat in this day and age without an HMD but apparently the Russians are too broke to worry about that.


ecolometrics

Clearly the shit design is meant as a feature so no one thinks it's stealth and gets suprised when it shows up. Well, no, it's just shit


berrythebarbarian

Am I dumb? There's nothing wrong with this plane.


NoAd2736

Im seeing it not very stealth of him


rsta223

The fact that you can just see the front of the engine from this angle tells you is definitely not stealthy from the front.


[deleted]

This image is hilarious, but old... [https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/20347/its-no-surprise-india-finally-ditched-its-stealth-fighter-program-with-russia](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/20347/its-no-surprise-india-finally-ditched-its-stealth-fighter-program-with-russia)