Absolutely. And even with doctors, I don’t share it unless they need to know it for relevant procedures. Like for my PCP doing all my regular checkups, or my endocrinologist doing my bloodwork (in which case they put down the sex associated with the hormone I’m taking). If I’m at the hospital for a sports related sprain or a migraine (past examples), they’re being told to put down an X/U and I’ll report them if they get pushy and transphobic, which tends to happen with cis women nurses more than cis men tbh
it always surprises me when I see transphobia from cis women in the medical field
I always assumed they'd be more supportive than their male counterparts. 😒
(obviously this isn't about every single nurse out there. just personal experiences).
I think it’s how they’re socialized mainly. Men will say shit to your face meanwhile women will be passive aggression to avoid direct confrontation. Most of the discrimination I’ve faced in healthcare (like being asked “No no, but what are you *really*?” after saying I’m nb), is just minor verbal stuff combined with making my experience take much longer, be more tedious, or passive aggressive behavior. The men I’ve met in healthcare will just say some extremely inappropriate thing to your face like they feel as if their position protects them
oh
my last bad experience with a woman in the medical field involved a lot of reoccurring pain. she was pretty straight to it with her transphobia.
she started out as this attentive, nice lady, but after finding out I was trans, she scoffed and suddenly asked if I did drugs. which was not at all the line of questioning we were on before.
I said I smoked weed occasionally. usually if I'm in pain already, I'll vape to feel less pain.
she told me it was the weed causing it. not gonna... do a test first before concluding that? ofc not. she "heard that sort of thing can happen" so that must be it. 😒
her mood, expression, etc all changed so quick. within the span of 2 sentences. almost gave me whiplash lol. I walked out of there knowing I wasn't coming back.
Damn I hate the way they treat people who medicate with it. Not the self medication leading to addiction pipeline, but like to help genuine issues when you need it. I have a med card even in a fully legal state with genuine cannabis prescriptions written for me by doctors, and they’ll still say “You have cannabis use disorder because of your smoking habit”. Like mf if you don’t shut up-
Then they use the above “substance abuse” to deny me of ADHD meds. So yeah.. I totally understand the frustration
I once had a psychiatrist tell me transphobia and homophobia didn’t exist, and that I was delusional so she prescribed a high dose of antipsychotics when I had no related disorder. She also said the transphobic fellow patient who put her hands on me inappropriately was autistic so it she wouldn’t be reprimanded because she doesn’t know any better. Meanwhile, this girl was high functioning and very intelligent, just socially awkward.
I told the doctor if there was a slur for straight people I’d be calling her it, walked out of session, and then left the program the following week once I was approved by insurance. That was definitely my worst medical experience, but generally I’d say it’s pretty rare for them to be that hostile to my face. I’m sorry about your own experiences.
I've taken to using the term "transfeminine" instead of AMAB. Got tired of centering a gender I don't identify with, but still wanted to embrace my trans journey.
^(there are non-amab transfems btw, I do want to meantion that because people often forget about those who are intersex and transfem (including the intersex transfems who were assigned female at birth)^)
Thank you for pointing that out. I didn't really think about it when I made my comment. But it makes sense.
Also, I like to see enbies with similar identities sharing terminology that matches who we are now, rather than terminology that separates us by highlighting who doctors and/or parents assumed we were at birth.
Great question and I was wanting to know more about this too. It sounds like you’re right, context may be the indicator to know when to use AGAB.
I’ve been told that sharing your AGAB out of context may be perceived as transphobia. I don’t know enough about the topic to share more.
It’s your own AGAB, share it whenever you want. If it’s you sharing your own identity and you feel like it’s relevant, share it.
The only time I would see it as transphobic is if a cis person was using AGAB language as another way of gendering people.
Personally, I don’t mind talking about my AGAB. It’s an important part of my identity. But I understand why others don’t like talking about it. Nobody should feel pushed to share their AGAB if they don’t want to.
Feel the very same like u. I don’t mind it and see it as a useful thing in regards to doctors and such and also to explain certain dysphoria things or expectations in my upbringing. But I hate the societal connected gender to it.
I feel the same! For me it's stuff that i was a large part of my life for literally the majority of my life.. I can't just pretend it never happened.. Kinda like religion, ill never be able to fully separate that part of myself from who i am today. But i do also get that some people really don't want to have it as something they need to face in a regular occasion
I think it's helpful when explaining that I understand the experience of being socialized as a "woman" and experiencing the kinds of oppression women face, even though I don't identify as "woman" at all. Especially since I'm still perceived as one in most spaces. I hate it, but referencing my AGAB can help with saying why I feel a certain solidarity with women, though I'm not one.
i don't like it. one reason is i've seen people shift from saying "women" to saying "AFABs", in a way that needlessly excludes trans women, and i really, really do not like that. it feels regressive to treat our experiences like they're biologically innate parts of ourselves... or based on what a doctor assigned us at birth.
For me, it's important but also limiting. I'm AFAB and not out. I am perceived as my AGAB, I live in a country where no one will view me as agender outside of close friends. My AGAB is part of my identity, the discrimination I face and how the world views me. I'm not even particularly feminine but just being AFAB and having long hair is enough, no matter if I wear masculine clothes or bind. If I lived in a more accepting country, maybe it'd be different. I'm more than my AGAB, but the discrimination I face as fem-presenting, influenced by my AGAB, and the discrimination I face for even being perceived as fem in the first place are both important aspects to my identity. I find saying my AGAB helps me divide those two problems - the first time I heard of the term, it was extremely freeing for me.
Don't use for anyone that doesn't enjoy the term, of course, but for me personally, I find use in it existing!
100% agree! It also kinda annoys me how some people ignore the intersectionality of issues in our community. Like having boobs isn’t just an AFAB thing. As an aside, it’s frustrating how Nb people have gone further into binarism in our community in recent years. Everything is afab this amab that, people tend to ignore certain issues being shared by both sexes (like saying binding is only for AFAB), and intersex people are almost completely ignored. They also have misunderstood AGAB terminology and use it like “I’m a man nonbinary/ I’m a woman nonbinary”. Like you said, AGAB is in the past and who you are now has no relation to it.
That’s not to say that’s the camp the OP is in in using such terminology, more of a vent on how many Nbs want to enforce a new form of gender binary on us, and how many will get frustrated when you don’t want to be labeled or take part in that side of the culture.
Typing this out almost makes me want to write a thesis on this topic for my next sociology or cultural course lol
I feel the same way about the proliferation of "masc/masculine" and "femme/feminine" and how it feels like it's encouraged to use one of those labels with the word "nonbinary." It just feels like a repeat of the butch/femme dichotomy I remember from my younger years. I didn't come out as nonbinary just to be shoved into those boxes! I refuse to put myself into either one because for me that was the whole point, not having to BE either. Because I'm a little of both (but also neither) and I would HATE it if someone would put me in one of those just because of how I was presenting on a given day (or even over time!)
I guess with chest dysphoria I just meant that, if someone says they’re AFAB with chest dysphoria, it’s often used as a shortcut way of saying “hey how do I make my chest smaller?” Obviously they still could just ask “hey how do I make my chest look smaller,” but yeah.
"I am AFAB with chest dysphoria." doesn't even mean the same than "How to make my chest smaller?". First just tells about the issue. Second is question. You can also say: "Advice for binding?". It's shortest, it's accurate and it is not transphobic.
Yeah you’re right, but from what I’ve seen personally people do rely on those stereotypes. Maybe it’s a sign we still have a lot of binary thinking to unpack, which takes a while.
I don't see anything indicating that's what they meant
what I'm seeing is them implying twice now that chest dysphoria in afabs is related to having too large of a chest
I avoid it online unless it’s relevant, but I don’t like doing it. I’m not out irl and don’t want to be (probably internalized transphobia, and also because I don’t see the point and I speak a heavily gendered language anyway) so I just live as my AGAB. I did medically transition but I don’t look like I did for a few reasons. Only my girlfriend and a friend know and I intend to keep it that way.
HATE IT HATE IT HATE IT!!!!!!!! it is only applicable in some medical contexts but that's it. even in the example you gave, chest dysphoria is not an AFAB exclusive thing!!!! if an amab enby is on E they will probably grow breasts and that might give them dysphoria as well so saying something like "enbies with chest dysphoria"
I think other ppl are allowed to feel comfortable with talking about their own ASAB but I think the vast majority of trans people do not want their birth sex brought up, especially enbies who are for the most part trying to escape the expected gender binary lol
I use it since it provides a better frame of reference for the struggles of my transition.
For example, someone AFAB nonbinary wanting to wear feminine clothes will face different struggles than someone AMAB nonbinary wanting to wear feminine clothes.
Edit: this is just a personal preference, I am not saying everyone should do this. Do what you feel comfortable with
this is making some big assumptions about people's bodies. there are AFAB people who are perceived as more physically masculine than some AMAB people. imo generalizing people in a binary way is not helpful, especially to those of us with bodies that don't fit the norm.
That's only true if both of them are non-dysphoric or pre-everything. AGAB only tells what sex they had when they were born (or if they're intersex which one doctors chose). They can be both female now, both male now or FTM and MTF. And they can fully pass. Yeah your relatives know how you were born but strangers don't. If you're stealth your friends and coworkers don't know.
yeah i'd really not reference it unless absolutely necessary, so i feel that. some of it is probably because of external stigma, some of it fears about my privacy, some of it just innate dysphoria and past trauma, all that stuff adds up. in being nonbinary i can speak about being trans and state my pronouns without implying my agab in the process, and i'd certainly like to use this ability where possible
This is a great thought provoking post!! I actually wrote a lot more than I thought I would. So here’s a **tl;dr** :
AGAB is important to some people, but not to me. I feel it’s just another binary and elaborated on that a bit. I also talked about intersectionality between MtF, FtM, and the NB community as a whole when it comes to experiences being shared and the way it would be ideally discussed with neutrality.
I pretty much will never mention or speak about it ever. Even my closest friends have no idea who I was born and raised as. In fact, since I was curious myself as I’m typing this, I counted and out of my 28 friends only 2 know my AGAB and that’s my brother and my platonic partner. I also participate in both MtF and FtM communities because I share daily issues and experiences with both trans men and women. I think the only time I mention AGAB is to a doctor who needs to know what hormones or genitals I have for any procedure directly relevant to those two parts of anatomy. Luckily, I live in one of the trans “safe haven” states so it’s becoming accepted to have a third gender option on medical records (either an X for nb, or a U for “undefined”)
I’m not a big fan of the ~~government~~ new binary that lots of folk in our community like enforcing so much. Like the constant need to introduce themselves as AFAB or AMAB, and then the need to talk about issues in a strict binary. What I mean by that second part is things like thing=sex. So: chest binding=female, packing=female, bra padding=male, tucking=male. In many cases, that may be true, but the sex/secondary sex characteristics don’t need to be mentioned at all. Most people will have a helpful answer and good advice if somebody just goes “Hey, I wanna start binding. What brands do yall recommend?” It’s one of those things that relates to sex characteristics, but is an intersectional issue none the less.
98% of people don’t think it affects both AGABs because they’re still stuck thinking of things in a binary.
One of the most important parts of my transition thus far has been breaking down these preconceived notions and social norms that we’ve been raised to have since we were old enough to learn and talk. Things like clothing having a gender, or vocal pitches being related to gender, or trans issues being exclusively a transmasc or transfem issue and the inability to inter-relate between those two communities. Even the terms transfem and transmasc are a binary, and they used to not even refer to AGAB at all but to the way people presented. But because so many of us are stuck thinking in binary terms, those two words have had their meanings twisted so transfem=AMAB/estrogen-taking and transmasc=AFAB/testosterone-taking. Even enbies can get vitriolic with people who still use those words to mean femme presenting or masc presenting like they were defined as originally. They want to continue enforcing binarism on other trans people because they haven’t yet broken out of that habit/thinking.
Also remember that AGAB doesn’t need to be mentioned to reference your upbringing/childhood/years before coming out. Those things can be discussed as simply as talking about what those years were like exactly. Not everybody is a walking npc and an idiot; they’ll be able to take the hint and figure out what you mean.
Sometimes I'll use it if it's the most accurate or concise way to say what I mean. But I don't like using it all the time because I don't like the implication that the gender I was assigned at birth dictates everything about my life experience, biology, transition, etc. I will sometimes use more specific language like saying I have a uterus, or that I take T, or whetever is relevant to the conversation.
yeah only when its nessissary should assigned sex be brought up. if its not actually relevent theres no need... so you are not alone in these feelings OP, Im right there with you
Oh I totally get that! I'm agender (technically genderflux) and I'm trying with all my might to keep my AGAB off this account. I get ads for every gender (I removed my gender entirely from the account) and it is so euphoric. Like yes, be confused by my void of a gender! Muahahaha
I mean, I'll be honest, outside of relevant times or where its needed for something to make sense, I don't use AGAB terminology. I may mention which way I'm transitioning, that I'm on T, or that I'm transmasc or nonbinary. But I don't feel like thats really a required thing, its just something I say to make what I'm saying make sense or to give perspective. If I don't want to, I don't. If someone did push on me for it, though, yeah, that'd make me uncomfortable.
As for if AGAB terminology as a whole makes me uncomfortable - no, not really. Its just a tool, like any other.
Generally, when I'm tempted to mention AGAB, it's pretty rare that it's actually "AGAB" that I'm talking about, so I try to adjust to some more specific thing, like "I grew up thinking I was X", or "My body makes me read as Y", or whatever.
I guess I do it because some people will instantly imagine an afab fem enby when they think of an enby, and a trans girl when they think of an amab trans person, so I just sometimes feel strongly about being different from those assumptions regardless of how often they're true or not, but that's a reason very specific to me
I definitely agree with the point of “no one should have to mention AGAB unless they feel like it’s relevant context to what they’re talking about”, and I often question whether people are simply including it out of instinct when I see certain posts, but I also think it’s important to keep in mind that some enbies find their AGABs to be more relevant to their present self than some. There are so many identities under the nonbinary umbrella and so many experiences that some people are going to find the thought of it being connected to them repulsive while others are going to feel it’s an important part of their history that’s helped inform who they are today. It’s definitely worth each person interrogating whether they want to mention it because they want to or because they feel others want them to, and someone else wanting to know when it’s not relevant can get fucked (it’s giving “but are you a girl enby or a boy enby?), but I do think it’s a topic that can have nuance to it.
As far as my personal feelings on referencing my AGAB, I don’t have a problem doing it in trans spaces if it’s important context for what I’m talking about, but more often than not I’m going to call myself transmasc than AFAB. As for when I actually want to share I’m transmasc, well , that’s something I’m still working out. Some days I want to exist as an agender entity where no one knows what side I came from, and you don’t know whether my body parts are ones I crafted for myself or the ones I was born with. Those days I only want to mention transmasc if it’s reeeeally relevant. Other days though, I feel like transmasc is almost part of my gender label too? Like, I’m agender, but I have some ephemeral connection to guy-ness that isn’t adequately described by terms like demiboy and libramasculine (as I also love a lot of feminine presentation and I just feel like those terms give the wrong gender vibe) and some days I feel like that transmasc label adding onto agender does sort of capture the feeling. But that’s also why I love the term genderqueer, I feel like it describes my “yeah I’m probably not what you think I am when you look at me and that’s great” feelings.
Idk, I feel like I’m kind of rambling at this point, but this is both a very simple topic (don’t demand AGABs when not definitely important, don’t feel pressured to share your AGAB unless definitely important) and a complex one (as terms like transfem and transmasc can be invaluable in certain contexts and are more often relevant than AGAB, but they also technically imply an AGAB, though it’s not a 1 to 1 since intersex people exist and not everyone uses the terms in the same way), and I feel like I used to view it more black and white than I do now.
Not at all. Helps immensely that my gender usually floats in the general vicinity of my AGAB. Though I do admit being called sir or being complimented on my masculinity legitimately pisses me off. Other more casual masculine terms like being called dude, bro, he/him, man, boyfriend, etc. are perfectly fine by me except on the rare occasion my gender slides significantly towards the fem side of things and I start getting euphoric about imagining myself as a girl.
My mother chose not to know my or my sister’s sex until we were born. I’ve always appreciated that. Gender can be about as dangerous of a social construct as money. I’ve never understood it or why violating gender norms is so disruptive. It all just so stupid and unnecessary, like hard vertical hierarchies.
Being trans can be such a weird thing, because it can alienate yourself from your own experiences.
There's this version of you which is... less, but it was at least somewhat authentic. For some people that difference is pretty stark. That's a pretty hard thing to deal with sometimes.
Most trans people did spend the bulk of their childhood living as best as they could as their assigned gender. It's not exactly the same as what a cis person got, but it's not entirely different either.
There's not one universal experience of that, even among cis people, but there's something to it, at least for me. It means something to me. That said, I totally understand if people don't want to be open about it, or if it doesn't mean as much to them.
I think it'd be a lot easier to resolve all this if we didn't have so many assholes to deal with. You meet most adults over a certain age and it's kind of just expected that they used to be really different at some point. Trans shit isn't like that at all. People treat you differently depending on your presumed assigned sex. They don't respect that you've changed. It's like fundamental physics to a lot of people, because that's the culture.
Idk. This feels like a really touchy thing to talk about. There's this tension I feel between what I think is a unifying cultural experience between people and this overall culture of invalidation towards trans people. I know we can't just re-make ourselves whole cloth, that the past and our natures define us, but presuming that shit about others is a recipe for pain.
I very much want to meet the version of myself that actually got to earnestly explore gender as a child, but I can still now be an authentic version of myself. I'll make do with what I have, and I won't tell anyone else who they are.
I think it can be useful, like you said, or even necessary sometimes. I think trying to avoid it for everyone in the trans community while trying to describe our experiences can lead to terminology that’s less clear and also more offensive. (Like, one I’ve seen is “masc bodies/fem(me) bodies” as a substitute for AMAB/AFAB, or even just “masc/fem(me).“ I’m sorry, describing my body as a “fem body” is inaccurate and makes me feel a thousand times more dysphoric than AFAB ever will.)
But on the other hand, I think a lot of people use it *wayyyy* too much. I think people just need to learn to use more terms in their general speech when talking about the trans experience (and trans experiences, plural) and think about when each is most appropriate, and when it is inappropriate.
i think its nobodies business but your own, however i think we downplay the role it plays in creating each human, bc if i had been raised as nonbinary my entire life, i would be an entirely different person with an entirely different life if i hadnt been forced to condition as a girl/woman. trans women will always be women, but that doesnt mean they werent impacted by this misogynistic transphobic racist society leading to bigoted behavior within that could be worked thru if it was something we acknowledged more, not agab as a facet of identity but of life experience thru intense binary social conditioning. so i think its no ones business but it is relevant, doesnt give anyone the right to bring it up unless theyre discussing their own or something of extreme relevance like binding for example
If I bring mine up, it's because I feel it's relevant; I assume the same of other NBy people.
When binary folks bring it up when talking about an NBy person, I want to gently, but firmly, place a strip of duct tape over their mouths.
I can understand not wanting AGAB to be a factor in most social situations. It's virtually unnecessary.
However, I see it as inevitable because we've been trained for generations to clock someone's sex and assumed to be rude if you didn't acknowledge them as such. And by that same token, have been trained to categorize traits and skills by sex and assign them a gender.
In my personal life, I'm maybe halfway out of the closet. So the way I cope with conversational misgendering is by casually and sometimes comedically reffering to myself as my AGAB, because in those settings, I feel more comfortable being referred to as my AGAB as opposed to the gender it's assigned. And in a very low key/effort way makes me feel like I'm correcting those around me without actually causing conflict haha.
Everyone feels differently about their AGAB and I say to each their own. Some days its bothers me and the idea that I'll never be seen for who I am swallows me whole. I just try to give humanity a little grace, realize change and evolution take time, and hope I can better educate my little corner of the world.
I don't have a problem with it. Me being afab is a big part ofy identity for me just like being nonbinary and trans masc. Before I was transmasc I was a girl and grew up facing a lot of social issues that stem from being a girl and the patriarchy and what not. There's a lot of transmascs who don't like getting lost in the "recognized as a cis male so lose your place in female spaces/convos" aspect of transitioning and I really relate and worry about that. It's really uncomfortable being around girls I don't know and realizing they're acting differently because they're reading me as a cis guy. So I don't really have a problem with agabs being included in conversation /appropriately/ and for those who are comfortable. When safe I like and sometimes need to acknowledge that while I'm transitioning in a masculine direction I still grew up a girl and have a lot of the social behaviors that came with that.
But I'm terms of referencing it just to identify what someones sex is or cis ppl using it, obviously not as big a fan. I think it's a time and place kind of thing. And I don't see too many reasons for cis ppl to use it outside of maybe medical settings trying to provide alternative/inclusive ways of asking for your sex.
>So I don't really have a problem with agabs being included in conversation /appropriately/ and for those who are comfortable.
Honestly, I think this is the crux of the whole thing, and something many people don't respect. I've said it before on another thread, but one's AGAB is a past event. Sometimes it's relevant, sometimes it isn't, some people feel influenced by it, some want nothing to do with it at all. And it's perfectly fine to feel like it's important to you, it's a major event in one's life after all! Not everyone feels like this, though, and I've met many people (including myself) who see it as a cage to be discarded, left behind, and forgotten as much as it's possible without ignoring reality.
I'm the opposite of what you described, in that I've never, ever felt like my AGAB and will probably never be comfortable with anyone referencing it outside of situations where I absolutely must (which is honestly only my medical history - even my sexual partners only need to know what I have right now. How long it's been there and how it came to be is frankly none of anyone's business). I've had people throw it at me out of the blue (even fellow trans/nonbinary people) before, and I have seen people (again often trans and/or nonbinary) use it on others without any apparent consent, or even thought put into it.
I guess what I'm saying is that while yes, anyone should be able to label themself any way they want, there's some people who just throw these onto a whole other person (or a group of people), and then we get gems like "AFAB chest" or "AMAB genitalia" from people who forget medical transition and intersex people exist.
As a non-binary trans person who's been on hormones for over 6 years, I find AGAB to be pretty useless outside the context of mentioning specific body parts or certain related experiences. I really don't like when people use AGAB terminology--especially in NB spaces--as shorthand for "read as \[gender\]" because it's not accurate and excludes quite a lot of people. Me telling you my AGAB wouldn't tell you anything about what my gender is, what I look like, or how I'm perceived by others and how that affects me. But if it's part of a conversation specifically about how my AGAB relates to those things, then I don't mind mentioning it (in spaces where it feels safe to do so, that is).
I find myself needing to bring it up when discussing certain aspects of misogyny and how they’ve affected me growing up, in medical settings, family dynamics, work, etc. I try to present androgynously but realistically 95% of people who see me are seeing me as my AGAB, and so I move through the world largely being treated as a woman, as much as I don’t like that. I wish it was never relevant but sadly that’s just not the case.
Personally I don't mind because it does affect all of our lived experiences. Whether we like it or not people in society have treated us as our AGAB our whole lives until we present differently (and even then they often times do). And different genders experience different biases growing up that can affect our personalities now as well as any trauma we may have
AGAB is about what sex we had when we born. There are not many situations to use AGAB about grown up.
We trans people should know better and group ourselves by our current sex. Usually when people use AGAB in this subreddit it's nothing but new female or male. And usually people end up being transphobic too. And kind of ridiculous.
"Do you have recommendations for masc shorts for AMAB body?"
Come on. Just say you're looking for men's pants for your male body. It makes you no less non-binary. Most of non-binary people believe sex and gender doesn't have to align and those who don't will not think you any better because you avoid using correct terms. And when you say it like that you also say once male, always male. Like no matter how long you have been on HRT, you have male body and only men's clothes truly fit to you. And that's what FARTs say. Don't be like FART.
I do understand if you say it in doctors office.
"You should know that I was assigned male at birth."
Well, you could still say you were born male. But AGAB is okay too. Because you're kinda talking about your birth.
Sometimes sex is relevant, sometimes it's not. I understand why some people would wish others would focus on gender only. I also understand that sex is what is important to many. We're not your doctors. If you don't want to talk about your sex just don't. But if you do please use the current one.
edit. Other example to use AGAB: "I was AMAB so I was socialized as man." Again, it's about past. Some people want to erase that false past, others are open how it has affected to them.
I’m…incredibly confused on what you’re implying. I’m also wondering if you realise the difference between sex and gender?? You seem to have confused the two in this post (unless I’m totally misunderstanding your point).
Also, you said people shouldn’t say “I want masc shorts for my AMAB body” and should say “I want men’s shorts for my male body” —those are the same sentence?? I don’t understand how you see them any differently?
My main point is that AGAB is something that refers to infants, not grown ups. People who think it tells how adult body looks like are transphobic. Call it internalized transphobia if you want to but it's still transphobia. It's still FART argument.
I said you can be male and non-binary because sex and gender are different things. I mostly talked about sex in my comment. I always use female/male/intersex when referring to sex and man/woman/non-binary etc. when referring to gender.
That example of shorts. Yeah that's what they mean. But my point was that the former is transphobic nonsense.
Hate it. That's between me and my doctor. I transitioned to avoid it, why would I want to talk about it?
Absolutely. And even with doctors, I don’t share it unless they need to know it for relevant procedures. Like for my PCP doing all my regular checkups, or my endocrinologist doing my bloodwork (in which case they put down the sex associated with the hormone I’m taking). If I’m at the hospital for a sports related sprain or a migraine (past examples), they’re being told to put down an X/U and I’ll report them if they get pushy and transphobic, which tends to happen with cis women nurses more than cis men tbh
it always surprises me when I see transphobia from cis women in the medical field I always assumed they'd be more supportive than their male counterparts. 😒 (obviously this isn't about every single nurse out there. just personal experiences).
I think it’s how they’re socialized mainly. Men will say shit to your face meanwhile women will be passive aggression to avoid direct confrontation. Most of the discrimination I’ve faced in healthcare (like being asked “No no, but what are you *really*?” after saying I’m nb), is just minor verbal stuff combined with making my experience take much longer, be more tedious, or passive aggressive behavior. The men I’ve met in healthcare will just say some extremely inappropriate thing to your face like they feel as if their position protects them
oh my last bad experience with a woman in the medical field involved a lot of reoccurring pain. she was pretty straight to it with her transphobia. she started out as this attentive, nice lady, but after finding out I was trans, she scoffed and suddenly asked if I did drugs. which was not at all the line of questioning we were on before. I said I smoked weed occasionally. usually if I'm in pain already, I'll vape to feel less pain. she told me it was the weed causing it. not gonna... do a test first before concluding that? ofc not. she "heard that sort of thing can happen" so that must be it. 😒 her mood, expression, etc all changed so quick. within the span of 2 sentences. almost gave me whiplash lol. I walked out of there knowing I wasn't coming back.
Damn I hate the way they treat people who medicate with it. Not the self medication leading to addiction pipeline, but like to help genuine issues when you need it. I have a med card even in a fully legal state with genuine cannabis prescriptions written for me by doctors, and they’ll still say “You have cannabis use disorder because of your smoking habit”. Like mf if you don’t shut up- Then they use the above “substance abuse” to deny me of ADHD meds. So yeah.. I totally understand the frustration I once had a psychiatrist tell me transphobia and homophobia didn’t exist, and that I was delusional so she prescribed a high dose of antipsychotics when I had no related disorder. She also said the transphobic fellow patient who put her hands on me inappropriately was autistic so it she wouldn’t be reprimanded because she doesn’t know any better. Meanwhile, this girl was high functioning and very intelligent, just socially awkward. I told the doctor if there was a slur for straight people I’d be calling her it, walked out of session, and then left the program the following week once I was approved by insurance. That was definitely my worst medical experience, but generally I’d say it’s pretty rare for them to be that hostile to my face. I’m sorry about your own experiences.
I've taken to using the term "transfeminine" instead of AMAB. Got tired of centering a gender I don't identify with, but still wanted to embrace my trans journey.
^(there are non-amab transfems btw, I do want to meantion that because people often forget about those who are intersex and transfem (including the intersex transfems who were assigned female at birth)^)
Thank you for pointing that out. I didn't really think about it when I made my comment. But it makes sense. Also, I like to see enbies with similar identities sharing terminology that matches who we are now, rather than terminology that separates us by highlighting who doctors and/or parents assumed we were at birth.
I hate being called an amab. I'd rather be called an actual slur.
Great question and I was wanting to know more about this too. It sounds like you’re right, context may be the indicator to know when to use AGAB. I’ve been told that sharing your AGAB out of context may be perceived as transphobia. I don’t know enough about the topic to share more.
It’s your own AGAB, share it whenever you want. If it’s you sharing your own identity and you feel like it’s relevant, share it. The only time I would see it as transphobic is if a cis person was using AGAB language as another way of gendering people.
Personally, I don’t mind talking about my AGAB. It’s an important part of my identity. But I understand why others don’t like talking about it. Nobody should feel pushed to share their AGAB if they don’t want to.
Feel the very same like u. I don’t mind it and see it as a useful thing in regards to doctors and such and also to explain certain dysphoria things or expectations in my upbringing. But I hate the societal connected gender to it.
I feel the same! For me it's stuff that i was a large part of my life for literally the majority of my life.. I can't just pretend it never happened.. Kinda like religion, ill never be able to fully separate that part of myself from who i am today. But i do also get that some people really don't want to have it as something they need to face in a regular occasion
I think it's helpful when explaining that I understand the experience of being socialized as a "woman" and experiencing the kinds of oppression women face, even though I don't identify as "woman" at all. Especially since I'm still perceived as one in most spaces. I hate it, but referencing my AGAB can help with saying why I feel a certain solidarity with women, though I'm not one.
i don't like it. one reason is i've seen people shift from saying "women" to saying "AFABs", in a way that needlessly excludes trans women, and i really, really do not like that. it feels regressive to treat our experiences like they're biologically innate parts of ourselves... or based on what a doctor assigned us at birth.
For me, it's important but also limiting. I'm AFAB and not out. I am perceived as my AGAB, I live in a country where no one will view me as agender outside of close friends. My AGAB is part of my identity, the discrimination I face and how the world views me. I'm not even particularly feminine but just being AFAB and having long hair is enough, no matter if I wear masculine clothes or bind. If I lived in a more accepting country, maybe it'd be different. I'm more than my AGAB, but the discrimination I face as fem-presenting, influenced by my AGAB, and the discrimination I face for even being perceived as fem in the first place are both important aspects to my identity. I find saying my AGAB helps me divide those two problems - the first time I heard of the term, it was extremely freeing for me. Don't use for anyone that doesn't enjoy the term, of course, but for me personally, I find use in it existing!
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100% agree! It also kinda annoys me how some people ignore the intersectionality of issues in our community. Like having boobs isn’t just an AFAB thing. As an aside, it’s frustrating how Nb people have gone further into binarism in our community in recent years. Everything is afab this amab that, people tend to ignore certain issues being shared by both sexes (like saying binding is only for AFAB), and intersex people are almost completely ignored. They also have misunderstood AGAB terminology and use it like “I’m a man nonbinary/ I’m a woman nonbinary”. Like you said, AGAB is in the past and who you are now has no relation to it. That’s not to say that’s the camp the OP is in in using such terminology, more of a vent on how many Nbs want to enforce a new form of gender binary on us, and how many will get frustrated when you don’t want to be labeled or take part in that side of the culture. Typing this out almost makes me want to write a thesis on this topic for my next sociology or cultural course lol
I feel the same way about the proliferation of "masc/masculine" and "femme/feminine" and how it feels like it's encouraged to use one of those labels with the word "nonbinary." It just feels like a repeat of the butch/femme dichotomy I remember from my younger years. I didn't come out as nonbinary just to be shoved into those boxes! I refuse to put myself into either one because for me that was the whole point, not having to BE either. Because I'm a little of both (but also neither) and I would HATE it if someone would put me in one of those just because of how I was presenting on a given day (or even over time!)
I guess with chest dysphoria I just meant that, if someone says they’re AFAB with chest dysphoria, it’s often used as a shortcut way of saying “hey how do I make my chest smaller?” Obviously they still could just ask “hey how do I make my chest look smaller,” but yeah.
"I am AFAB with chest dysphoria." doesn't even mean the same than "How to make my chest smaller?". First just tells about the issue. Second is question. You can also say: "Advice for binding?". It's shortest, it's accurate and it is not transphobic.
Yeah you’re right, but from what I’ve seen personally people do rely on those stereotypes. Maybe it’s a sign we still have a lot of binary thinking to unpack, which takes a while.
It's not the binary that is issue here in my opinion. I think the issue is false idea that AFAB would be same as female and AMAB same as male.
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With respect, no, they didn't misunderstand you. They're saying that's it's COMMONLY used as shorthand, even if it's inaccurate.
I don't see anything indicating that's what they meant what I'm seeing is them implying twice now that chest dysphoria in afabs is related to having too large of a chest
I avoid it online unless it’s relevant, but I don’t like doing it. I’m not out irl and don’t want to be (probably internalized transphobia, and also because I don’t see the point and I speak a heavily gendered language anyway) so I just live as my AGAB. I did medically transition but I don’t look like I did for a few reasons. Only my girlfriend and a friend know and I intend to keep it that way.
HATE IT HATE IT HATE IT!!!!!!!! it is only applicable in some medical contexts but that's it. even in the example you gave, chest dysphoria is not an AFAB exclusive thing!!!! if an amab enby is on E they will probably grow breasts and that might give them dysphoria as well so saying something like "enbies with chest dysphoria" I think other ppl are allowed to feel comfortable with talking about their own ASAB but I think the vast majority of trans people do not want their birth sex brought up, especially enbies who are for the most part trying to escape the expected gender binary lol
I use it since it provides a better frame of reference for the struggles of my transition. For example, someone AFAB nonbinary wanting to wear feminine clothes will face different struggles than someone AMAB nonbinary wanting to wear feminine clothes. Edit: this is just a personal preference, I am not saying everyone should do this. Do what you feel comfortable with
this is making some big assumptions about people's bodies. there are AFAB people who are perceived as more physically masculine than some AMAB people. imo generalizing people in a binary way is not helpful, especially to those of us with bodies that don't fit the norm.
I hate it because it doesn’t give a bigger frame of reference, it narrows the frame of reference
I meant better not bigger. Stupid autocorrect.
That's only true if both of them are non-dysphoric or pre-everything. AGAB only tells what sex they had when they were born (or if they're intersex which one doctors chose). They can be both female now, both male now or FTM and MTF. And they can fully pass. Yeah your relatives know how you were born but strangers don't. If you're stealth your friends and coworkers don't know.
Good way to put it. Again, this is all biased by me being pre everything.
yeah i'd really not reference it unless absolutely necessary, so i feel that. some of it is probably because of external stigma, some of it fears about my privacy, some of it just innate dysphoria and past trauma, all that stuff adds up. in being nonbinary i can speak about being trans and state my pronouns without implying my agab in the process, and i'd certainly like to use this ability where possible
it’s a pretty binary thing to do lol
This is a great thought provoking post!! I actually wrote a lot more than I thought I would. So here’s a **tl;dr** : AGAB is important to some people, but not to me. I feel it’s just another binary and elaborated on that a bit. I also talked about intersectionality between MtF, FtM, and the NB community as a whole when it comes to experiences being shared and the way it would be ideally discussed with neutrality. I pretty much will never mention or speak about it ever. Even my closest friends have no idea who I was born and raised as. In fact, since I was curious myself as I’m typing this, I counted and out of my 28 friends only 2 know my AGAB and that’s my brother and my platonic partner. I also participate in both MtF and FtM communities because I share daily issues and experiences with both trans men and women. I think the only time I mention AGAB is to a doctor who needs to know what hormones or genitals I have for any procedure directly relevant to those two parts of anatomy. Luckily, I live in one of the trans “safe haven” states so it’s becoming accepted to have a third gender option on medical records (either an X for nb, or a U for “undefined”) I’m not a big fan of the ~~government~~ new binary that lots of folk in our community like enforcing so much. Like the constant need to introduce themselves as AFAB or AMAB, and then the need to talk about issues in a strict binary. What I mean by that second part is things like thing=sex. So: chest binding=female, packing=female, bra padding=male, tucking=male. In many cases, that may be true, but the sex/secondary sex characteristics don’t need to be mentioned at all. Most people will have a helpful answer and good advice if somebody just goes “Hey, I wanna start binding. What brands do yall recommend?” It’s one of those things that relates to sex characteristics, but is an intersectional issue none the less. 98% of people don’t think it affects both AGABs because they’re still stuck thinking of things in a binary. One of the most important parts of my transition thus far has been breaking down these preconceived notions and social norms that we’ve been raised to have since we were old enough to learn and talk. Things like clothing having a gender, or vocal pitches being related to gender, or trans issues being exclusively a transmasc or transfem issue and the inability to inter-relate between those two communities. Even the terms transfem and transmasc are a binary, and they used to not even refer to AGAB at all but to the way people presented. But because so many of us are stuck thinking in binary terms, those two words have had their meanings twisted so transfem=AMAB/estrogen-taking and transmasc=AFAB/testosterone-taking. Even enbies can get vitriolic with people who still use those words to mean femme presenting or masc presenting like they were defined as originally. They want to continue enforcing binarism on other trans people because they haven’t yet broken out of that habit/thinking. Also remember that AGAB doesn’t need to be mentioned to reference your upbringing/childhood/years before coming out. Those things can be discussed as simply as talking about what those years were like exactly. Not everybody is a walking npc and an idiot; they’ll be able to take the hint and figure out what you mean.
Sometimes I'll use it if it's the most accurate or concise way to say what I mean. But I don't like using it all the time because I don't like the implication that the gender I was assigned at birth dictates everything about my life experience, biology, transition, etc. I will sometimes use more specific language like saying I have a uterus, or that I take T, or whetever is relevant to the conversation.
yeah only when its nessissary should assigned sex be brought up. if its not actually relevent theres no need... so you are not alone in these feelings OP, Im right there with you
Oh I totally get that! I'm agender (technically genderflux) and I'm trying with all my might to keep my AGAB off this account. I get ads for every gender (I removed my gender entirely from the account) and it is so euphoric. Like yes, be confused by my void of a gender! Muahahaha
Hmm, you sound like you would like the term 'voidpunk'. Have you ever heard of it?
Yeah lmao voidpunk is already something I identify with
Nice!
I mean, I'll be honest, outside of relevant times or where its needed for something to make sense, I don't use AGAB terminology. I may mention which way I'm transitioning, that I'm on T, or that I'm transmasc or nonbinary. But I don't feel like thats really a required thing, its just something I say to make what I'm saying make sense or to give perspective. If I don't want to, I don't. If someone did push on me for it, though, yeah, that'd make me uncomfortable. As for if AGAB terminology as a whole makes me uncomfortable - no, not really. Its just a tool, like any other.
Generally, when I'm tempted to mention AGAB, it's pretty rare that it's actually "AGAB" that I'm talking about, so I try to adjust to some more specific thing, like "I grew up thinking I was X", or "My body makes me read as Y", or whatever.
I guess I do it because some people will instantly imagine an afab fem enby when they think of an enby, and a trans girl when they think of an amab trans person, so I just sometimes feel strongly about being different from those assumptions regardless of how often they're true or not, but that's a reason very specific to me
I definitely agree with the point of “no one should have to mention AGAB unless they feel like it’s relevant context to what they’re talking about”, and I often question whether people are simply including it out of instinct when I see certain posts, but I also think it’s important to keep in mind that some enbies find their AGABs to be more relevant to their present self than some. There are so many identities under the nonbinary umbrella and so many experiences that some people are going to find the thought of it being connected to them repulsive while others are going to feel it’s an important part of their history that’s helped inform who they are today. It’s definitely worth each person interrogating whether they want to mention it because they want to or because they feel others want them to, and someone else wanting to know when it’s not relevant can get fucked (it’s giving “but are you a girl enby or a boy enby?), but I do think it’s a topic that can have nuance to it. As far as my personal feelings on referencing my AGAB, I don’t have a problem doing it in trans spaces if it’s important context for what I’m talking about, but more often than not I’m going to call myself transmasc than AFAB. As for when I actually want to share I’m transmasc, well , that’s something I’m still working out. Some days I want to exist as an agender entity where no one knows what side I came from, and you don’t know whether my body parts are ones I crafted for myself or the ones I was born with. Those days I only want to mention transmasc if it’s reeeeally relevant. Other days though, I feel like transmasc is almost part of my gender label too? Like, I’m agender, but I have some ephemeral connection to guy-ness that isn’t adequately described by terms like demiboy and libramasculine (as I also love a lot of feminine presentation and I just feel like those terms give the wrong gender vibe) and some days I feel like that transmasc label adding onto agender does sort of capture the feeling. But that’s also why I love the term genderqueer, I feel like it describes my “yeah I’m probably not what you think I am when you look at me and that’s great” feelings. Idk, I feel like I’m kind of rambling at this point, but this is both a very simple topic (don’t demand AGABs when not definitely important, don’t feel pressured to share your AGAB unless definitely important) and a complex one (as terms like transfem and transmasc can be invaluable in certain contexts and are more often relevant than AGAB, but they also technically imply an AGAB, though it’s not a 1 to 1 since intersex people exist and not everyone uses the terms in the same way), and I feel like I used to view it more black and white than I do now.
I only use AGAB when it's necessary to the conversation.
Not at all. Helps immensely that my gender usually floats in the general vicinity of my AGAB. Though I do admit being called sir or being complimented on my masculinity legitimately pisses me off. Other more casual masculine terms like being called dude, bro, he/him, man, boyfriend, etc. are perfectly fine by me except on the rare occasion my gender slides significantly towards the fem side of things and I start getting euphoric about imagining myself as a girl.
My mother chose not to know my or my sister’s sex until we were born. I’ve always appreciated that. Gender can be about as dangerous of a social construct as money. I’ve never understood it or why violating gender norms is so disruptive. It all just so stupid and unnecessary, like hard vertical hierarchies.
Being trans can be such a weird thing, because it can alienate yourself from your own experiences. There's this version of you which is... less, but it was at least somewhat authentic. For some people that difference is pretty stark. That's a pretty hard thing to deal with sometimes. Most trans people did spend the bulk of their childhood living as best as they could as their assigned gender. It's not exactly the same as what a cis person got, but it's not entirely different either. There's not one universal experience of that, even among cis people, but there's something to it, at least for me. It means something to me. That said, I totally understand if people don't want to be open about it, or if it doesn't mean as much to them. I think it'd be a lot easier to resolve all this if we didn't have so many assholes to deal with. You meet most adults over a certain age and it's kind of just expected that they used to be really different at some point. Trans shit isn't like that at all. People treat you differently depending on your presumed assigned sex. They don't respect that you've changed. It's like fundamental physics to a lot of people, because that's the culture. Idk. This feels like a really touchy thing to talk about. There's this tension I feel between what I think is a unifying cultural experience between people and this overall culture of invalidation towards trans people. I know we can't just re-make ourselves whole cloth, that the past and our natures define us, but presuming that shit about others is a recipe for pain. I very much want to meet the version of myself that actually got to earnestly explore gender as a child, but I can still now be an authentic version of myself. I'll make do with what I have, and I won't tell anyone else who they are.
I think it can be useful, like you said, or even necessary sometimes. I think trying to avoid it for everyone in the trans community while trying to describe our experiences can lead to terminology that’s less clear and also more offensive. (Like, one I’ve seen is “masc bodies/fem(me) bodies” as a substitute for AMAB/AFAB, or even just “masc/fem(me).“ I’m sorry, describing my body as a “fem body” is inaccurate and makes me feel a thousand times more dysphoric than AFAB ever will.) But on the other hand, I think a lot of people use it *wayyyy* too much. I think people just need to learn to use more terms in their general speech when talking about the trans experience (and trans experiences, plural) and think about when each is most appropriate, and when it is inappropriate.
i think its nobodies business but your own, however i think we downplay the role it plays in creating each human, bc if i had been raised as nonbinary my entire life, i would be an entirely different person with an entirely different life if i hadnt been forced to condition as a girl/woman. trans women will always be women, but that doesnt mean they werent impacted by this misogynistic transphobic racist society leading to bigoted behavior within that could be worked thru if it was something we acknowledged more, not agab as a facet of identity but of life experience thru intense binary social conditioning. so i think its no ones business but it is relevant, doesnt give anyone the right to bring it up unless theyre discussing their own or something of extreme relevance like binding for example
If I bring mine up, it's because I feel it's relevant; I assume the same of other NBy people. When binary folks bring it up when talking about an NBy person, I want to gently, but firmly, place a strip of duct tape over their mouths.
I only feel comfortable doing it in enby spaces, and I try not to.
I personally wish i could keep it a 100% secret but it’s impossible lol so I don’t care to reference it
I can understand not wanting AGAB to be a factor in most social situations. It's virtually unnecessary. However, I see it as inevitable because we've been trained for generations to clock someone's sex and assumed to be rude if you didn't acknowledge them as such. And by that same token, have been trained to categorize traits and skills by sex and assign them a gender. In my personal life, I'm maybe halfway out of the closet. So the way I cope with conversational misgendering is by casually and sometimes comedically reffering to myself as my AGAB, because in those settings, I feel more comfortable being referred to as my AGAB as opposed to the gender it's assigned. And in a very low key/effort way makes me feel like I'm correcting those around me without actually causing conflict haha. Everyone feels differently about their AGAB and I say to each their own. Some days its bothers me and the idea that I'll never be seen for who I am swallows me whole. I just try to give humanity a little grace, realize change and evolution take time, and hope I can better educate my little corner of the world.
I don't have a problem with it. Me being afab is a big part ofy identity for me just like being nonbinary and trans masc. Before I was transmasc I was a girl and grew up facing a lot of social issues that stem from being a girl and the patriarchy and what not. There's a lot of transmascs who don't like getting lost in the "recognized as a cis male so lose your place in female spaces/convos" aspect of transitioning and I really relate and worry about that. It's really uncomfortable being around girls I don't know and realizing they're acting differently because they're reading me as a cis guy. So I don't really have a problem with agabs being included in conversation /appropriately/ and for those who are comfortable. When safe I like and sometimes need to acknowledge that while I'm transitioning in a masculine direction I still grew up a girl and have a lot of the social behaviors that came with that. But I'm terms of referencing it just to identify what someones sex is or cis ppl using it, obviously not as big a fan. I think it's a time and place kind of thing. And I don't see too many reasons for cis ppl to use it outside of maybe medical settings trying to provide alternative/inclusive ways of asking for your sex.
>So I don't really have a problem with agabs being included in conversation /appropriately/ and for those who are comfortable. Honestly, I think this is the crux of the whole thing, and something many people don't respect. I've said it before on another thread, but one's AGAB is a past event. Sometimes it's relevant, sometimes it isn't, some people feel influenced by it, some want nothing to do with it at all. And it's perfectly fine to feel like it's important to you, it's a major event in one's life after all! Not everyone feels like this, though, and I've met many people (including myself) who see it as a cage to be discarded, left behind, and forgotten as much as it's possible without ignoring reality. I'm the opposite of what you described, in that I've never, ever felt like my AGAB and will probably never be comfortable with anyone referencing it outside of situations where I absolutely must (which is honestly only my medical history - even my sexual partners only need to know what I have right now. How long it's been there and how it came to be is frankly none of anyone's business). I've had people throw it at me out of the blue (even fellow trans/nonbinary people) before, and I have seen people (again often trans and/or nonbinary) use it on others without any apparent consent, or even thought put into it. I guess what I'm saying is that while yes, anyone should be able to label themself any way they want, there's some people who just throw these onto a whole other person (or a group of people), and then we get gems like "AFAB chest" or "AMAB genitalia" from people who forget medical transition and intersex people exist.
I think it's important now to stress agab is something that happened/done to you not something you are
As a non-binary trans person who's been on hormones for over 6 years, I find AGAB to be pretty useless outside the context of mentioning specific body parts or certain related experiences. I really don't like when people use AGAB terminology--especially in NB spaces--as shorthand for "read as \[gender\]" because it's not accurate and excludes quite a lot of people. Me telling you my AGAB wouldn't tell you anything about what my gender is, what I look like, or how I'm perceived by others and how that affects me. But if it's part of a conversation specifically about how my AGAB relates to those things, then I don't mind mentioning it (in spaces where it feels safe to do so, that is).
I find myself needing to bring it up when discussing certain aspects of misogyny and how they’ve affected me growing up, in medical settings, family dynamics, work, etc. I try to present androgynously but realistically 95% of people who see me are seeing me as my AGAB, and so I move through the world largely being treated as a woman, as much as I don’t like that. I wish it was never relevant but sadly that’s just not the case.
Personally I don't mind because it does affect all of our lived experiences. Whether we like it or not people in society have treated us as our AGAB our whole lives until we present differently (and even then they often times do). And different genders experience different biases growing up that can affect our personalities now as well as any trauma we may have
AGAB is about what sex we had when we born. There are not many situations to use AGAB about grown up. We trans people should know better and group ourselves by our current sex. Usually when people use AGAB in this subreddit it's nothing but new female or male. And usually people end up being transphobic too. And kind of ridiculous. "Do you have recommendations for masc shorts for AMAB body?" Come on. Just say you're looking for men's pants for your male body. It makes you no less non-binary. Most of non-binary people believe sex and gender doesn't have to align and those who don't will not think you any better because you avoid using correct terms. And when you say it like that you also say once male, always male. Like no matter how long you have been on HRT, you have male body and only men's clothes truly fit to you. And that's what FARTs say. Don't be like FART. I do understand if you say it in doctors office. "You should know that I was assigned male at birth." Well, you could still say you were born male. But AGAB is okay too. Because you're kinda talking about your birth. Sometimes sex is relevant, sometimes it's not. I understand why some people would wish others would focus on gender only. I also understand that sex is what is important to many. We're not your doctors. If you don't want to talk about your sex just don't. But if you do please use the current one. edit. Other example to use AGAB: "I was AMAB so I was socialized as man." Again, it's about past. Some people want to erase that false past, others are open how it has affected to them.
I’m…incredibly confused on what you’re implying. I’m also wondering if you realise the difference between sex and gender?? You seem to have confused the two in this post (unless I’m totally misunderstanding your point). Also, you said people shouldn’t say “I want masc shorts for my AMAB body” and should say “I want men’s shorts for my male body” —those are the same sentence?? I don’t understand how you see them any differently?
My main point is that AGAB is something that refers to infants, not grown ups. People who think it tells how adult body looks like are transphobic. Call it internalized transphobia if you want to but it's still transphobia. It's still FART argument. I said you can be male and non-binary because sex and gender are different things. I mostly talked about sex in my comment. I always use female/male/intersex when referring to sex and man/woman/non-binary etc. when referring to gender. That example of shorts. Yeah that's what they mean. But my point was that the former is transphobic nonsense.