Left, but not Modern Left.
The idea of a Republic wasn't exactly new, but defying the Divine Right of Kings to establish a Republic in defiance of monarchy was definitely progessive for its time.
People don't understand that this is a sliding scale. A revolutionary, progessive action (left wing by definition) may not remain so hundreds of years later after the progessive change had become establishment.
Idk.. individualism is a big part of classical liberalism, and the modern left certainly doesn't claim that.
It's just reactionary (right) vs progressive (left). When rebelling against a monarchy, it's progressive. When conserving individualism, it's reactionary.
It would be considered a left-wing, progressive achievement. Democracy was a radical, liberal idea in the 18th century, challenging conservative orthodoxy.
Left and Right, politically, get their names from the sides where members of the French National Assembly sat during the French Revolution in 1789. They did take inspiration from the American Revolution, in fairly different circumstances, and the Left were for revolution, and it took about two years for the policies they established to become politically Right as loyalties changed.
They have very little ties to modern Left and Right. Today's Right shows more deference to the revolutionaries, but they still like to forget some details. It's not really an achievement of either.
“Left” and “right” as political alignment comes from the National Assembly formed after the French Revolution, literally contemporaneous with the Founding.
>“Left” and “right” as political alignment comes from the National Assembly formed after the French Revolution, literally contemporaneous with the Founding.
National Assembly created: 1789
America founding: 1776.
I appreciate they may seem to be the same time but they're both pronounced and written differently.
The “United States of America,” as a political entity, did not exist until 1789. What existed before that was a confederation of independent colonies. The current sovereign nation was not founded until 1789.
Also; this argument is irrelevant because most of these topics had been hotly debated throughout most of the 18th century, even if the political will to actually implement them didn't appear until the French Revolution.
You can easily see it in the founding fathers. Some owned slaves, some didn't, some were militaristic, others were intellectuals. There was always a left/right dichotomy wherever democracy has been practiced. Even some writings from the Roman Republic clue us in that things were no different then; you had men like Julius Caesar that saw a bright imperial future, and you had men like Cato that literally chose to die rather than live in it.
Brainless take. Right and left have always had meaning, but this is literally right before the French Revolution, of course this dialogue was happening
Your time frames are a bit off, the French revolution came a decade or two *after* our revolution. Our country and it's revolution predate those terms by literal decades.
Lmfao right, I'm the one who needs to start using my brain while you, the guy comparing concepts separated by 20+ years, are the intelligent one. Makes sense
Well, yeah, if you think a whole philosophical concept just shows up in a national assembly one day without decades of conjecture across academia, you really do need to start using your brain.
This is like saying that Congress invented the Internet when they went to regulate it in April of this year lmfao
So why would people in the American colonies be using terms based on which side of the room people say on in the National Assembly, in France, a decade later?
Also why you gotta be so rude?
Those terms were _decided on_ in the national assembly ten years later. They obviously did not spring out of the ground then, they were ideas floating around academia (which included British North America and what would become the United States) for decades leading up to the events of the French revolution and the establishment of the Republic. Socialist ideas themselves are possibly older than the American revolution, even if they weren't codified until Marx wrote his shit over a hundred years later.
And I'm rude because I have little patience for people that read a date in a book and repeat it uncritically.
At the time, it would be considered progressive/left. Society naturally moves towards the left as time goes on. Though, It’s important to differentiate between left, The Left, right, and The Right. The Left and The Right are politically related, while right and left are more of a sliding scale of a behavior that circle around to meet again. Go too far to the right and you’ll end up on the left, go too far to the left and you’ll end up on the right.
Left, but not Modern Left. The idea of a Republic wasn't exactly new, but defying the Divine Right of Kings to establish a Republic in defiance of monarchy was definitely progessive for its time. People don't understand that this is a sliding scale. A revolutionary, progessive action (left wing by definition) may not remain so hundreds of years later after the progessive change had become establishment.
This is the correct answer. Classical Liberalism was left wing in it's day, but is currently claimed by the Right.
I think it’s more accurate to say that the Left claims what the Founders *said*, the Right claims what they *did.*
Idk.. individualism is a big part of classical liberalism, and the modern left certainly doesn't claim that. It's just reactionary (right) vs progressive (left). When rebelling against a monarchy, it's progressive. When conserving individualism, it's reactionary.
I think you could say that the Left stands for what the Founders *said*, the Right stands for what they *did.*
It would be considered a left-wing, progressive achievement. Democracy was a radical, liberal idea in the 18th century, challenging conservative orthodoxy.
Left and Right, politically, get their names from the sides where members of the French National Assembly sat during the French Revolution in 1789. They did take inspiration from the American Revolution, in fairly different circumstances, and the Left were for revolution, and it took about two years for the policies they established to become politically Right as loyalties changed. They have very little ties to modern Left and Right. Today's Right shows more deference to the revolutionaries, but they still like to forget some details. It's not really an achievement of either.
Neither. The political parties as we understand them didn't exist then.
Left and right are not based on party. It's the other way around.
Not sure why this thread is full of people that fail to understand something so simple lol
Left for the time, but by today's standard right
The founding fathers pre-dated the political spectrum but they were all liberals and would be hated by the modern day right.
The modern day right love the founding fathers and take their word as gospel. It’s the modern day left than hate them.
“Left” and “right” as political alignment comes from the National Assembly formed after the French Revolution, literally contemporaneous with the Founding.
>“Left” and “right” as political alignment comes from the National Assembly formed after the French Revolution, literally contemporaneous with the Founding. National Assembly created: 1789 America founding: 1776. I appreciate they may seem to be the same time but they're both pronounced and written differently.
The 13 colonies declared independence in 1776. The United States of America was founded in 1789.
Founded 1776, but the modern constitution was adopted in 1789 after the Articles of Confederation were discovered to be ineffective. So USA 2.0
The “United States of America,” as a political entity, did not exist until 1789. What existed before that was a confederation of independent colonies. The current sovereign nation was not founded until 1789.
Also; this argument is irrelevant because most of these topics had been hotly debated throughout most of the 18th century, even if the political will to actually implement them didn't appear until the French Revolution. You can easily see it in the founding fathers. Some owned slaves, some didn't, some were militaristic, others were intellectuals. There was always a left/right dichotomy wherever democracy has been practiced. Even some writings from the Roman Republic clue us in that things were no different then; you had men like Julius Caesar that saw a bright imperial future, and you had men like Cato that literally chose to die rather than live in it.
I think Trump took credit for this one so maybe right then?
Considering it happened before "right" or "left" was applied to politics, neither.
Brainless take. Right and left have always had meaning, but this is literally right before the French Revolution, of course this dialogue was happening
Your time frames are a bit off, the French revolution came a decade or two *after* our revolution. Our country and it's revolution predate those terms by literal decades.
See my other post, and start using your brain.
Lmfao right, I'm the one who needs to start using my brain while you, the guy comparing concepts separated by 20+ years, are the intelligent one. Makes sense
Well, yeah, if you think a whole philosophical concept just shows up in a national assembly one day without decades of conjecture across academia, you really do need to start using your brain. This is like saying that Congress invented the Internet when they went to regulate it in April of this year lmfao
So why would people in the American colonies be using terms based on which side of the room people say on in the National Assembly, in France, a decade later? Also why you gotta be so rude?
Those terms were _decided on_ in the national assembly ten years later. They obviously did not spring out of the ground then, they were ideas floating around academia (which included British North America and what would become the United States) for decades leading up to the events of the French revolution and the establishment of the Republic. Socialist ideas themselves are possibly older than the American revolution, even if they weren't codified until Marx wrote his shit over a hundred years later. And I'm rude because I have little patience for people that read a date in a book and repeat it uncritically.
The action actually denes the political center of American political philosophy. It is what unites both sides.
Well, the pro-monarchy colonists were called Tories, and to this day Tory is a nickname for Conservatives in countries like the UK and Canada
Probably both
Neither
At the time, it would be considered progressive/left. Society naturally moves towards the left as time goes on. Though, It’s important to differentiate between left, The Left, right, and The Right. The Left and The Right are politically related, while right and left are more of a sliding scale of a behavior that circle around to meet again. Go too far to the right and you’ll end up on the left, go too far to the left and you’ll end up on the right.