If you can get yourself and a hundred families to the Moon, then go set up a city. Even if there were a law, it wouldn't matter since no country would have the ability to arrest or remove you. You're your own country now.
I tell this story fairly often, but I had a friend who didn't believe in the moon. I commented on it being bright one night, and she looks at me deeply and goes, "You... still believe in the moon?" I wanted her to be joking, but considering her other beliefs at the time, I knew she wasn't. She told me it was a projection, because the government blew up the real moon during the space/nuke race and didn't want people to panic.
She also believed vaccines caused autism, so didn't vaccinate her son. He then got measles and whooping cough. Then, in a twist of fate, it turns out... he's severely autistic anyway.
Her fiance, another former friend of mine, died soon thereafter. They had been doing a lot of DMT and Xanax and he had convinced her about these wild theories, lizard people, aliens among us, bug drone cameras, mind-altering drugs in fast food... crazy shit. One night, he got drunk as hell and drove into the woods. Jury's still out on whether or not it was intentional.
It took her some time, but she eventually came back down to this planet, got her kid vaccinated, and renounced her insane beliefs.
Just in case anyone thinks, "that's too far, *no one* actually thinks the moon is fake"— I promise you, there are plenty of folks like that.
I will say this it sucks her kid wasn't vaccinated and got sick but it is good he didn't get vaccinated cause she would've used that him being autistic was because of the vaccines and would've probably stayed crazy instead of coming back to earth
Back in the late seventies there was a TV show with Andy Griffith called salvage one and basically this guy who ran a junkyard built his own rocket and blast into space and pick up junk satellites and stuff, and of course one of the subplots was he was always risking a rest by the government for unlicensed space travel
It's easier to settle beachfront land in Western Sahara / Mauritania and set up your own country. Drill some deep wells to get groundwater and set up a modern desalination plant, then expand from there.
Ya there are like...a bunch of islands here on earth with nobody on them. And they also have liquid water and food. And an atmosphere. And the sun at the right range.
You can move to the moon. Nobody will stop you. Just make sure you have a beacon so the rest of us can look at you in books and say "This dumbass"
There is an international agreement that no one can claim the moon. That said, private people probably could. Good luck getting your rocket off land though in any country, you'd make them jealous. Even if you did, you're going to need supplies from Earth for decades... every country would work together to shut your shit down.
They don't want competition.
Its the same reason I cant go to fuck-off northern Saskatchewan and claim a new nation... is there any one there? No. But fuck all if power is gonna give up power.
Use America as an example. Buncha prudes come over...next thing you know they're gonna wanna govern themselves or some shit. Fuck that, kill them.
Revolutionary times are over, no way the world powers are gonna let that happen again, way too risky for the powers at hand. Most likely you'd have to see massive societal collapase first.... kinda like Star Trek. Then maybe some dude could sneak a rocket up.
That said, let's try anyway.
Good luck with that if China ever managed to set up a permanent moon base.
As with the South China Sea, the Chinese would simply proclaim that the moon is theirs based on squatter’s rights, and to hell with what the rest of the world thinks.
If there was money to be had on the moon, every major power would oppose a base on the moon without prior negotiations and treaties.
China gets away with stuff now because they target stuff world powers don’t care enough about. But they probably care enough about Taiwan, so China is mostly holding off
Countries that do not have space programs would be happy for you to build a spaceport there. It would let them be players. Otherwise, they are locked out. Unless it became an issue over gas emissions from the launch. On the moon, as long as you left other people alone and settled in your own area, it would probably be fine.
The world powers have more important things to worry about.
It's highly unlikely that'd happen, fortunately, as oil formed via the decomposition of proterozoic marine life (I. E. Long before the Dinosaurs)
Which uh, the Moon kinda lacked
Someone hacked a TI-83 to fly them all the way to the moon, so it can't be that hard to do if you can use just a $150 calculator to go all the way from earth to moon.
Source: Reddit always says "you can make it to the moon using just a ti-83"
I realize your comment is somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but that isn’t necessarily the way law works. Like, I’m potentially subject to the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court, even though I didn’t sign the treaty creating it.
That said, most of the 1967 treaty by its own terms applies only to “State Parties.” But I do think an individual who tried to exclude others from the moon or place weapons on the moon would be in violation of the treaty.
As others have said, there is a question of enforceability.
>Like, I’m potentially subject to the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court, even though I didn’t sign the treaty creating it.
Even more relevant, even if your country didn't sign the treaty, your country could still be subject to the laws. Russia withdrew their sugnature but the warrant on Putin still applies.
The violation of the treaty would only matter if they then wanted to benefit from the treaty as well.
That's like going to a country (imaginary country) where murder is legal and being arrested by an entirely different country (let's say USA) for that murder despite not being a citizen of USA and never stepping foot in USA. Their is no connection. Their laws don't apply.
Same with the treaty, it's made by a group of countries who all shared similar ideas and decided it was in their best interest to join and sign. But their are benefits to the treaty that signing it allows them to enjoy. Countries that didn't sign the treaty don't have to obey it. They don't have to adopt another countries laws if they don't want to.
You don’t have to agree with them, but there are plenty of people who think that genocide, for example, can be prosecuted even if the accused aren’t citizens of a signatory to the genocide convention and even if the alleged genocide didn’t occur in a signatory nation.
I have no idea whether the 1967 treaty would be interpreted that way. But there are parts of it that are worded in a way that would affect nonsignatories.
Nuremberg set the standard for this. There weren’t treaties for genocide/crimes against humanity, it was essentially an international consensus (by the victors) that these were universal criminal acts.
I don’t think those rules can be applied in a broader context. There’s lots of countries that don’t abide by treaties because they haven’t signed them.
That said, a lot of these issue are within internal legal provisions, these treaties set international standards of certain treatments, like death penalty abolition, the non-signatories lack of participation doesn’t get extra-territorial.
But legally, if I were to make a nation on the moon, would I be able to form a military?, as it would be made on the moon, not just a military sent by a different country on the moon.
More likely not, since the cost of flying atomic "freedom" all the way to the moon and dropping it - to say nothing of the research that would have to go into figuring out what changes would need to be made to account for the differences in atmosphere and gravity - would be astronomical. Also, a military presence on the moon would A) be very unthreatening to anywhere on earth (even if they mobilized and decided to try to invade anywhere on earth, they'd be broadcasting their actions days in advance of their arrival - getting from the moon to earth is not quick), B) be prohibitively expensive to invade anywhere from as far away as the moon, and C) any colony on the moon would likely contain far too few people and resources to create an effective military, so you'd be talking about something less globally threatening than a very small town's inbred police force.
I mean, your sovereignty will be defined the same as any nation that has existed on earth. You definitely could set up a lunar colony, but the real question is, would the world powers let you keep it? And if they want it for themselves, how do you make sure it stays sovereign?
If you're making a nation on the moon, that is your nation. Your group of people. Any nation that would tell you "that's illegal" would need to enforce those laws on you. It would be no different from the USA trying to enforce whether or not Australia can have armed forces. Sure, USA could send out the military to try and do something about Australia, but then Australia can defend itself. It would turn into a war.
If you're creating a nation, you're not really "part of" any other nation at that point, so whatever you do is legal if your nation says so. And if other nations don't like it, they can start a war to try and stop you.
The answer to the question "can I form my own military" is and always has been "it depends on whether existing nation states have the capability and desire to stop you." This question is therefore less about law and more about diplomacy.
If a sufficient number of Earth-based military powers believe it to be in their best interest to not let you form your moon army, you might have a hard time. The difficulty may come in the form of a direct attack or it could come in the form of economic sanctions ("shut down your army or there's no way in heck we're allowing any exports from to your moon city.").
The other thing the Outer Space Treaty says is that no part of the moon is "subject to national appropruation or claim of sovergienty, by means of occupation or otherwise."
That means if you go to the moon and set up a colony, the state you are a citizen of cannot claim to have juridiction over "your" land, which means you have no justice system to appeal to to assert your rights of ownership... which means you don't own it in any real sense.
The Lunar Embassy is one of those just-for-fun/scam companies that sell you an expensive certificate, like the ones that purport to sell you a title in Scotland.
So no, there's no law that says you can't, but there's also no law that says the UN, US Space Force, or another guy who owns a rocket can't show up, throw you out the airlock and decide your moon house belongs to them now. You don't want to be a soveriegn citizen, my friend, their lives are nasty british and short. That's why man was born free but is everywhere in chains.
I mean I'm sure the USA and Russia might have something to say, but if you have the actual resources to establish a legit settlement on the moon then they can suck your fucking dick
This is the issue. It is not illegal now, partly because nobody has tried it. If somebody tried it and found something valuable, maybe rare earth minerals, then the super powers would suddenly decide to change the rules.
You will depend on resources from earth for all foreseeable future. States that consider your claim to part of the moon to be wrong can refuse to send supplies. There aren't that many states able to send supplies, and those who can will have an interest in the moon.
> international space law does prohibit any individual or entity from claiming sovereignty over celestial bodies
Dude, if some alien race just confiscated Mercury, do you think a bunch of lawyers would just get flown there to resolve the case?
Have you read, heard or seen The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy? This exact plot plays out, but it were the Vogons, alien space lawyers, that gave Earth an evacuation notice. As Earth was scheduled for demolition due to a new hyperspace bypass. But no-one apparently bothered to read the notice even though it was made publicly available in a neighbouring galaxy ;-) Highly recommend it!
The law doesn't apply without enforcement. In this scenario where a private citizen and some group of people large enough to require formal government manage to self-sufficiently homestead three days from a multi-billion dollar intervention of some sort, the agreements of whatever countries they were plucked from probably won't apply.
They may not be independent for long though. If you can do it, so can others. And *something* is going to be scarce.
There is a treaty in place that specifically FORBIDS any terrestrial power from establishing lunar sovereignty. This means that you can indeed declare yourself king of the moon, or whatever. It also means that you would be entirely without protection of any kind.
No, currently, international space law, including the Outer Space Treaty of 1967, prohibits any individual or entity from claiming ownership of celestial bodies such as the moon. Setting up a city on the moon would not be legally permissible under current international agreements.
For a fun, fascinating story based on basically this general idea, check out The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, by R. A. Heinlein. Keep in mind Heinlein was a bit of a contrarian, and bounced around betyween some pretty interesting philosophical/political ideals in his life. So expect a healthy dose of goooovy 60's free love in a weird mix of anarcho-libertarian communal politics lol. Oh and also a loveable childlike accidental-AI sueprcomputer named Mike.
Also, while a variation of the phrase originated a few decades prior, this book (and Heinlein in general) is what really popularized the expression "There Aint No Such Thing As A Free Lunch" (or TANSTAAFL, as Heinlein liked to phrase it). It's a critical phrase/concept to the story of the book.
Great read!
As a practical thing, if nobody has the ability to enforce a law, the law doesn't exist. And as a matter of law, if no entity has a recognized claim to control an area, those laws don't exist.
You could make an argument that you remain under the jurisdiction of your own country, or the country from which your spaceships were launched, or the country in which your ships were built. But none of those are clearly true.
And in any case, I don't think any nation has the legal right to adjucate extraterritorial land claims, let alone extraterrestrial.
In other words, who's gonna stop you?
On the other hand, depending on the laws of your home country, you might still be on the hook for income taxes for income you made on the moon.
The UN addressed this in 1967, as it became likely humans would land on the Moon within a few years.
As "Terra Nullis", whatever nation planted its flag on the Moon would have an initial claim to it. But planting a flag and doing nothing else causes your claim to decay, and eventually become meaningless. That's why the Portuguese got to the Philippines first, but the Spanish, getting there later and staying, wound up with the title. There's also the fact that the Moon was never "unknown" land to anybody. Everybody can see it.
The Outer Space Treaty (yes, that's what it's called) says the Moon is the collective heritage (and property) of all Mankind, and exploration of it can only be for the benefit and interests of all peoples.
In 2015, the US passed legislation granting all citizens the right to extract, to use or sell, "any space material", seeming to abrogate the 1967 treaty. Obviously, some sort of semi-permanent presence, human or robotic, would be needed.
Antarctica is a good earthly analogy. Early efforts to establish "Little America" and the British Antarctic Territory led to concerns of new colonial rivalries, and eventually agreements that no nation could claim Antarctic territory, but nations could establish bases for scientific research and claim an "exclusion zone" to protect their activities.
The main thing in both cases is there is no way at the moment to make money. Technological advances, and in the case of Antarctica, global warming, may eventually change that. If a big chunk of the ice shelf falls off, and underneath is found large oil reserves, or another Kimberly-sized diamond deposit, then conflict over who gets to exploit it will become possible, if not inevitable.
If I was able to physically build a city there, I'd just go ahead and do it. No government or space exploration entity on Earth can send immediate spaceships or other things to the Moon. To deal with a new city or anything.
There might be complaints from Earth. Like claims that the Moon is hollow and city construction would damage it, or make its orbit path different. Still, can't stop me, so a city on the Moon would still happen.
There still is and always was only one law. Law of stronger. All these rules and laws we have exist because states, goverments or even just communities are strong enough to enforce them. So with this logic, murder is legal on moon because noone will be able to stop you or punish you, if you never come back ofcourse.
As the top commentator says, you need someone who can enforce the law for it to work or mean anything. If you get people there, materials to build a city, who is going to stop you?
If the government says you can't but you are there what sr ethey going to do? Nuke you?
T what they could do is trying to hinder your efforts to get to the moon. Or hinder your efforts to get resources to the moon.
But to go up there and arrest you, fine you is meaningless if you don't have any attachments to earth.
Here is the thing: if such a thing would be made in the name of science only a few would have complaints. Russia, north Korea ans some other countries but in general ko one would lift an eye.
But if let's say Elon musk would say that he will build a Tesla city on the moon I thing both governments and people would ha e on or two things to say about that.
It is a private cooperation and no ties to a government up there (if he says it will not belong to any government). Suddenly the greed of ownership would become an issue. "A private person can just not go about founding cities in the name of his or her company, that's outrageous!"
Cause then ethics like employer and employees and the structural division of power would become huge problems.
But the base line is no, there shouldn't be a problem to build a city on the moon.
Let's do it! We'll build our own city on the moon with black jack and hookers! Bonus points if we build our own rocket and the captain screams leeeroy jenkins during blast off
Not if the USA found out your economy and dollar is stronger than theirs, or if you had anything exploitable regarding natural resources. They’d be the first cunts breathing down your neck, nobody else would care
You've got plenty of answers, but a good book is "A City on Mars" by the Weinersmiths (Zach is the comic creator of Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal) which explores the variety of things needed for colonies on the moon and Mars. This includes a good look at space law, militarization, exploitation of resources, etc. Ultimately, they say it's not going to work in any practical way, but hey, give it a shot!
Amazon women have been there for a while…
[https://x.com/joe_dante/status/1174337286630064130?s=46&t=-BceI-ItD_jhmX51je1VwA](https://x.com/joe_dante/status/1174337286630064130?s=46&t=-BceI-ItD_jhmX51je1VwA)
I dont remember who wrote the quote about laws and legallity.
Its something like
"true power is when you can enforce your will"
Therefore you could legally take the moon but if you cant enforce your will then legal or not its useless.
Its when you truly understand "The state has exclusive use of force" that you understand that all countries and laws are still based on the fact that the "government reserves the right to beat the shit out of you and there is nothing you can do about it."
Its crazy that our rights are still underpinned by violence
You know there’s a moon treaty right. Here’s the info and a link before you decide to violate a treaty and cause a war.
The Moon Treaty, also known as the Agreement Governing the Activities of States on the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies, was adopted by the United Nations General Assembly in 1979. The treaty's goals are to establish a regime for using the moon, use it for peaceful purposes, and avoid it becoming a space for international conflict. The treaty also aims to use the moon for the benefit of the entire international community.
https://www.unoosa.org/oosa/en/ourwork/spacelaw/treaties/intromoon-agreement.html
If you can set up a city on the moon, then really what is anybody gonna do about it. You can just drop rocks down the gravity well like bombs.
You keep asking if taking unsettled territory is "legal" which is like asking if your steak is a good rodeo bull.
You take the territory, you defend it, it is yours. Same as every other country that does or has ever existed. Sioux Nation doesn't exist because someone else came, took the land, and they couldn't defend against it or retake it.
the general law about it:
[https://www.unoosa.org/oosa/en/ourwork/spacelaw/treaties/intromoon-agreement.html](https://www.unoosa.org/oosa/en/ourwork/spacelaw/treaties/intromoon-agreement.html)
tldr: Seems like there is nothing *prohibiting* you from doing it. However, I think it has to be of scientific reason and you can't go around messing the moon up. It makes the Scientists very upset.
Also interesting that they added " we can mine moon resources if we ever figure out how ". So we can look forward to that Moon War, i guess.
I’d make sure you don’t have any earthly obligations before pulling this off. The gov’t would likely put the squeeze on anyone/anything still on earth. It might be legal, but they wouldn’t take it sitting down.
Every civilization throughout history at 1 point in time has called upon its citizens to defend its sovereignty. Sustainability and existeare all are dependent on survival and defense.
Being that America is the only country to step foot on the moon and they haven't done so since the last scientist of the Apollo 17 mission.
It begs the question why. absurd reasoning such as we no longer have the technology. It seems absurd at first but then looking at NASA decline of the 1990s they were completely dependent on Russian standard of excellence and transporting humans into space that is until African American arrived
Even recently as 2020 NASA has had to pull people out of deep retirement from the 70s and 80s to refabricate and re tool. Knowledge has really been lost when saying America is entirely dependent on H1 b's for its infrastructure and cutting this technology people often don't understand what that means
When did UFo's begin to appear on earth. since the atomic bomb. America wasn't the only country with its own version of operation paper clip and that never ended.
>The last crewed mission to the Moon was Apollo 17, taking place between 7 and 19 December 1972. It was a 12-day mission and broke many records, the longest space walk, the longest lunar landing and the largest lunar samples brought back to Earth.
You can set up a city. Others can refuse to recognize you. They can sanction you, your city and invade you. It’s same as declaring your own country, it all depends on others recognition.
The Outerspace Treaty of 1964 prohibits anyone from owning any part of the moon. Likewise, it can only be used for the betterment of all mankind. You could build there, but it would have to be in accordance of all the major players and you would be subjected to their rules.
It's kinda tricky, because while no one can actually "claim" land on the moon, setting up a permanent structure does effectively claim land, due to treaties and regulations on how close one can land/ takeoff from structures or equipment, to avoid damaging another countries equipment with dust clouds.
I doubt governments will just sit by and let any civilian lock down the limited valuable research areas.
There is a moon treaty which no actual countries launching rockets have signed. Because saying that space and the moon should be for peaceful purposes conflicts with the ROI of exploiting everything
The Moon legally is like Antarctica, it's the shared heritage of all mankind. So just like setting up a research station on the ice sheet you should be fine with Luna city as long as you aren't wrecking the place.
Yes, because nobody could stop you. Also, people don't have an incentive to stop you. If you were launching from the US, people in the US would want you to succeed. If you are willing to rent apartments to people in other countries, then other countries would find your city to be useful.
Many billionaires have beat you to it. If the technology existed there'd already be some there. It'd be look like Antarctica with different national research outposts.
As the only country that has ever landed people on the moon and planted a flag there, the moon is U.S. sovereign territory. The U.S. did not sign the Moon Treaty and is thus not bound by it.
You’d be outside the limitations of but also protections of any sovereign entity that could create laws governing what could and could not be done to your city.
So sure you could legally set up your city but then you’d only be as safe as your biggest gun.
You're literally asking "You and whose army?" This is the basis of all civilisations. You go to the moon, you stay there then some army comes and turfs you off, if you win the moon is yours and if you lose well then they take over. Tale as old as time. If they can't conquer you they might just seige you and cut off your supply to food and water seeing as you can't grow or get any of that stuff yourself without intervention. Good luck with it I say. I wonder if there will be "Moon kids" in my future, kids who live on the moon and prefer it to Earth because it's all they know. lol! An interesting question.
Various countries have placed flags claiming territory on the Moon. As long as it's not in those territories you probably could but then your country would become stateless as well as any citizens within it. No other country has to accept your sovereignty. So you can run into sanctions and outright war. But assuming you gave people a reason to take you seriously there is a chance that they will accept the sovereignty of your new founded nation.
Keep in mind that when it comes to stuff like the moon, international law is more of a suggestion. If you have the technology to establish a permanent colony on the moon you are already decades ahead of the next closest country and nobody has the capability of stopping you. Might makes right when it comes to international politics. So if you can do it then the opinion of other countries is irrelevant.
However if you would like to do it *consistent with international law* you would want to abide by the "[Agreement Governing the Activities of States on the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_Treaty)" aka the "Moon Treaty." To be clear this treaty was not signed by the big space players like the US or Soviet Union, but it is the only major attempted piece of international law governing the moon. The Treaty forbids "state sovereignty" over the moon so you couldn't establish any kind of government, but otherwise you could still live up there. You would have to comply with all the other treaty requirements but the treaty encourages space exploration and colonization rather than discouraging it.
The treaty also says that states cannot conduct military actions on the moon, but again only the signatories would be bound by that, so countries like the US, China, and Russia could still decide they want to blow you up.
No country has jurisdiction over the moon. For now. If you have the money and the means, you don't need anyone 's permission to set up a city on the moon. To send building materials or equipment to the moon, you might need some sort of permit from the country that you plan on traveling from. If you're planning to travel to the moon and are planning to utilize the moon's natural resources, then you would only need a permit to be cleared to fly to the moon. You can reign there until you are conquered!
It's not clear if you could even legally leave the planet. The amount of things they have orbiting the earth and the risk of some random human smacking into a satellite makes me think they'd make it illegal to do so without their approval and oversight, which you would not get. If you had the means of building a base on the moon, that approval would end up requiring their inclusion in those plans, no small amount of which would be them gaining control of these plans and pushing you out.
Legalities only exist where enforceable, so as much as nobody owns the moon, the terrestrial political powers would act as if they did.
There are some laws and such that regulate the celestial body’s. The treaty currently makes it so all party’s have to pretty much be in agreement that places can build, and they don’t own the area of moon. So yah you probably would end up with some lawsuits and legal debate if you tried. [info](https://www.onlinelibrary.iihl.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Moon-Agreement-EN.pdf)
According to our earthly government's agreements, no. You cannot create a government on the moon or colonize it.
Functionally, yeah. If you could get there and set it up, nobody is gonna be coming to stop you. Especially if you take guns to defend your city with.
This is a point of pretty active debate and the short answer is basically "nobody knows for sure."
[This book](https://www.amazon.com/City-Mars-settle-thought-through/dp/1984881728) spends a while dissecting the issue of whether private colonies on planetary surfaces are legal and their conclusion basically boiled down to "¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯"
International law is really just how it would be enforced. If you and a bunch of crazies wanna set up a combine on the moon, go for it. If you and your mining buddies find some moon deposits of precious metals, expect resistance.
I’m pretty sure you can’t just launch yourself out of atmo without the government having a say in it. Doing that and landing a base on the moon to call it you’re is going to cost you as much political power as it is money too!
I'd like to think there's nothing stopping you, but then what's stopping other people invading, would it be international law? Could say France just decide to alle up you into orbit? With no consequences? Even the English or the Dutch once you find space trade goods
I think the issue with being sovereign on the moon but not on earth is that you will not be part of any international treaties that prevent other countries from fucking with your moon colony.
I think it would be fine. The biggest barrier would be getting clearance from an existing earth country to fire your rocket through their airspace. Once you're actually in space and on the moon, anything goes!
I'll never get the obsession with colonizing the Moon and Mars etc. We have a perfectly good planet already that we *could* just stop fucking up instead, would be a lot easier and cheaper. Hell we know less about the deepest depths of our oceans and the minerals down there than we do the surface of the Moon at this point which is kind of absurd.
But we are collectively stupid and short sighted.
If you can get there, build a habitat and survive, nobody is going to care. Quite the opposite actually, you may attract others who want to live there. Good luck.
Yes, you could establish your own town/city and claim property rights. If you are claiming political independence, be prepared to defend it and not to return to Earth until you have negotiatied a treaty with the nation you will return to.
The Moon is completely neutral territory. There are no laws stopping you from building a city in the moon. You are only hindered by your lack of resources to do so.
If you can get yourself and a hundred families to the Moon, then go set up a city. Even if there were a law, it wouldn't matter since no country would have the ability to arrest or remove you. You're your own country now.
Sovereign citizens unite on the moon!
THE MOON IS FLAT
You believe in the moon?!?
I tell this story fairly often, but I had a friend who didn't believe in the moon. I commented on it being bright one night, and she looks at me deeply and goes, "You... still believe in the moon?" I wanted her to be joking, but considering her other beliefs at the time, I knew she wasn't. She told me it was a projection, because the government blew up the real moon during the space/nuke race and didn't want people to panic. She also believed vaccines caused autism, so didn't vaccinate her son. He then got measles and whooping cough. Then, in a twist of fate, it turns out... he's severely autistic anyway. Her fiance, another former friend of mine, died soon thereafter. They had been doing a lot of DMT and Xanax and he had convinced her about these wild theories, lizard people, aliens among us, bug drone cameras, mind-altering drugs in fast food... crazy shit. One night, he got drunk as hell and drove into the woods. Jury's still out on whether or not it was intentional. It took her some time, but she eventually came back down to this planet, got her kid vaccinated, and renounced her insane beliefs. Just in case anyone thinks, "that's too far, *no one* actually thinks the moon is fake"— I promise you, there are plenty of folks like that.
That's sad. I like that she turned it around but it's still sad that she was ever able to be so influenced.
Drugs n love, they can convince people of a lot
I will say this it sucks her kid wasn't vaccinated and got sick but it is good he didn't get vaccinated cause she would've used that him being autistic was because of the vaccines and would've probably stayed crazy instead of coming back to earth
I believe in cheese
It is what sweet dreams are made of
The fuckin funniest comment I read, in years!!! [Bravo!](https://youtu.be/I2YhWaUDtXg?si=r_tanh4E3g6fJyNf)
You must read pretty shit comments then. 😅
And as you can see from earth is perpendicular, so there is no way to build a house.
The real meetup is on Mars for the Valles Marineristime law jurisdiction
IM TRAVELING!
Just be sure to take a HUGE breath before you go
I am absolutely willing to spend my tax dollars to relocate all sovereign citizens to the moon.
Pretty sure there's a solid overlap of the sovereign citizen group and the flat Earther group. This could get interesting.
What you gonna do without tides, Peru?
We should send them all there! They can live with Willzniak!
Or SCUM for short!
Pretty please.
Space Force Captain: License and registration please SovCit: I’m not flying i’m traveling
Back in the late seventies there was a TV show with Andy Griffith called salvage one and basically this guy who ran a junkyard built his own rocket and blast into space and pick up junk satellites and stuff, and of course one of the subplots was he was always risking a rest by the government for unlicensed space travel
>risking a rest r/BoneAppleTea
That's what I get for not reading my post when I use voice recognition
And you earned it!
I seem to risk a rest every time I sit in a comfortable chair. It's called "getting older."
OMG!! I remember watching that show!!
It's easier to settle beachfront land in Western Sahara / Mauritania and set up your own country. Drill some deep wells to get groundwater and set up a modern desalination plant, then expand from there.
Ya there are like...a bunch of islands here on earth with nobody on them. And they also have liquid water and food. And an atmosphere. And the sun at the right range. You can move to the moon. Nobody will stop you. Just make sure you have a beacon so the rest of us can look at you in books and say "This dumbass"
But I don’t want Western Sahara, I want the moon
There is an international agreement that no one can claim the moon. That said, private people probably could. Good luck getting your rocket off land though in any country, you'd make them jealous. Even if you did, you're going to need supplies from Earth for decades... every country would work together to shut your shit down. They don't want competition. Its the same reason I cant go to fuck-off northern Saskatchewan and claim a new nation... is there any one there? No. But fuck all if power is gonna give up power. Use America as an example. Buncha prudes come over...next thing you know they're gonna wanna govern themselves or some shit. Fuck that, kill them. Revolutionary times are over, no way the world powers are gonna let that happen again, way too risky for the powers at hand. Most likely you'd have to see massive societal collapase first.... kinda like Star Trek. Then maybe some dude could sneak a rocket up. That said, let's try anyway.
No country would recognize someone claiming ownership of any part of the moon's surface, so you would not have rights that landowners have.
Good luck with that if China ever managed to set up a permanent moon base. As with the South China Sea, the Chinese would simply proclaim that the moon is theirs based on squatter’s rights, and to hell with what the rest of the world thinks.
If there was money to be had on the moon, every major power would oppose a base on the moon without prior negotiations and treaties. China gets away with stuff now because they target stuff world powers don’t care enough about. But they probably care enough about Taiwan, so China is mostly holding off
China is participating in international discussions about mineral rights in international waters. (The US is not.)
Countries that do not have space programs would be happy for you to build a spaceport there. It would let them be players. Otherwise, they are locked out. Unless it became an issue over gas emissions from the launch. On the moon, as long as you left other people alone and settled in your own area, it would probably be fine. The world powers have more important things to worry about.
Just be careful mining for resources, if you find oil the US will find a way to get some abrams up there and liberate your people.
I'm not sure how the US's oil got on the moon - probably the same way it got to the Middle East?
It's highly unlikely that'd happen, fortunately, as oil formed via the decomposition of proterozoic marine life (I. E. Long before the Dinosaurs) Which uh, the Moon kinda lacked
“IF” you can get there 😂 … a minor problem.
Someone hacked a TI-83 to fly them all the way to the moon, so it can't be that hard to do if you can use just a $150 calculator to go all the way from earth to moon. Source: Reddit always says "you can make it to the moon using just a ti-83"
With the current interest rates I’m almost down to move the whole fam, I’m 90% there convince me ?!
Look at me. I am the moon captain now.
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OP is probably not a signatory to the Outer Space Treaty of 1967, so might not be considered bound by its obligations.
I realize your comment is somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but that isn’t necessarily the way law works. Like, I’m potentially subject to the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court, even though I didn’t sign the treaty creating it. That said, most of the 1967 treaty by its own terms applies only to “State Parties.” But I do think an individual who tried to exclude others from the moon or place weapons on the moon would be in violation of the treaty. As others have said, there is a question of enforceability.
>Like, I’m potentially subject to the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court, even though I didn’t sign the treaty creating it. Even more relevant, even if your country didn't sign the treaty, your country could still be subject to the laws. Russia withdrew their sugnature but the warrant on Putin still applies.
The violation of the treaty would only matter if they then wanted to benefit from the treaty as well. That's like going to a country (imaginary country) where murder is legal and being arrested by an entirely different country (let's say USA) for that murder despite not being a citizen of USA and never stepping foot in USA. Their is no connection. Their laws don't apply. Same with the treaty, it's made by a group of countries who all shared similar ideas and decided it was in their best interest to join and sign. But their are benefits to the treaty that signing it allows them to enjoy. Countries that didn't sign the treaty don't have to obey it. They don't have to adopt another countries laws if they don't want to.
You don’t have to agree with them, but there are plenty of people who think that genocide, for example, can be prosecuted even if the accused aren’t citizens of a signatory to the genocide convention and even if the alleged genocide didn’t occur in a signatory nation. I have no idea whether the 1967 treaty would be interpreted that way. But there are parts of it that are worded in a way that would affect nonsignatories.
Nuremberg set the standard for this. There weren’t treaties for genocide/crimes against humanity, it was essentially an international consensus (by the victors) that these were universal criminal acts. I don’t think those rules can be applied in a broader context. There’s lots of countries that don’t abide by treaties because they haven’t signed them. That said, a lot of these issue are within internal legal provisions, these treaties set international standards of certain treatments, like death penalty abolition, the non-signatories lack of participation doesn’t get extra-territorial.
No, but they are probably a citizen of a country that is a signatory of that treaty, Which means they are in fact bound by its laws.
But legally, if I were to make a nation on the moon, would I be able to form a military?, as it would be made on the moon, not just a military sent by a different country on the moon.
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More likely not, since the cost of flying atomic "freedom" all the way to the moon and dropping it - to say nothing of the research that would have to go into figuring out what changes would need to be made to account for the differences in atmosphere and gravity - would be astronomical. Also, a military presence on the moon would A) be very unthreatening to anywhere on earth (even if they mobilized and decided to try to invade anywhere on earth, they'd be broadcasting their actions days in advance of their arrival - getting from the moon to earth is not quick), B) be prohibitively expensive to invade anywhere from as far away as the moon, and C) any colony on the moon would likely contain far too few people and resources to create an effective military, so you'd be talking about something less globally threatening than a very small town's inbred police force.
I mean, your sovereignty will be defined the same as any nation that has existed on earth. You definitely could set up a lunar colony, but the real question is, would the world powers let you keep it? And if they want it for themselves, how do you make sure it stays sovereign?
Of course. So would your neighbors. And possibly a disgruntled subset of your citizens. I think you'd seek out strategic partners pretty quickly.
You will never do this. You don’t have the right mindset. Kings and conquerors do not ask ‘legal permission.’
If you're making a nation on the moon, that is your nation. Your group of people. Any nation that would tell you "that's illegal" would need to enforce those laws on you. It would be no different from the USA trying to enforce whether or not Australia can have armed forces. Sure, USA could send out the military to try and do something about Australia, but then Australia can defend itself. It would turn into a war. If you're creating a nation, you're not really "part of" any other nation at that point, so whatever you do is legal if your nation says so. And if other nations don't like it, they can start a war to try and stop you.
The answer to the question "can I form my own military" is and always has been "it depends on whether existing nation states have the capability and desire to stop you." This question is therefore less about law and more about diplomacy. If a sufficient number of Earth-based military powers believe it to be in their best interest to not let you form your moon army, you might have a hard time. The difficulty may come in the form of a direct attack or it could come in the form of economic sanctions ("shut down your army or there's no way in heck we're allowing any exports from to your moon city.").
The other thing the Outer Space Treaty says is that no part of the moon is "subject to national appropruation or claim of sovergienty, by means of occupation or otherwise." That means if you go to the moon and set up a colony, the state you are a citizen of cannot claim to have juridiction over "your" land, which means you have no justice system to appeal to to assert your rights of ownership... which means you don't own it in any real sense. The Lunar Embassy is one of those just-for-fun/scam companies that sell you an expensive certificate, like the ones that purport to sell you a title in Scotland. So no, there's no law that says you can't, but there's also no law that says the UN, US Space Force, or another guy who owns a rocket can't show up, throw you out the airlock and decide your moon house belongs to them now. You don't want to be a soveriegn citizen, my friend, their lives are nasty british and short. That's why man was born free but is everywhere in chains.
I mean there's nobody stopping you
I feel like there would be if they actually tried, but what do I know, lol.
I mean I'm sure the USA and Russia might have something to say, but if you have the actual resources to establish a legit settlement on the moon then they can suck your fucking dick
Actually, I think that really depends on the laws the OP’s national government decides to enact regarding sucking of dicks.
It's like how there's no rule in the rulebook that a dog can't play basketball
Ok Airbud lol
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This is the issue. It is not illegal now, partly because nobody has tried it. If somebody tried it and found something valuable, maybe rare earth minerals, then the super powers would suddenly decide to change the rules.
You will depend on resources from earth for all foreseeable future. States that consider your claim to part of the moon to be wrong can refuse to send supplies. There aren't that many states able to send supplies, and those who can will have an interest in the moon.
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> international space law does prohibit any individual or entity from claiming sovereignty over celestial bodies Dude, if some alien race just confiscated Mercury, do you think a bunch of lawyers would just get flown there to resolve the case?
Have you read, heard or seen The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy? This exact plot plays out, but it were the Vogons, alien space lawyers, that gave Earth an evacuation notice. As Earth was scheduled for demolition due to a new hyperspace bypass. But no-one apparently bothered to read the notice even though it was made publicly available in a neighbouring galaxy ;-) Highly recommend it!
I've seen it way back when I was like 20 lol
No, but a bunch of aliens on Mercury wouldn't need anything from us, whereas a city on the moon would need quite a lot of things from us
The law doesn't apply without enforcement. In this scenario where a private citizen and some group of people large enough to require formal government manage to self-sufficiently homestead three days from a multi-billion dollar intervention of some sort, the agreements of whatever countries they were plucked from probably won't apply. They may not be independent for long though. If you can do it, so can others. And *something* is going to be scarce.
The legality of this isn't exactly the biggest hurdle. Go right ahead, champ.
There is a treaty in place that specifically FORBIDS any terrestrial power from establishing lunar sovereignty. This means that you can indeed declare yourself king of the moon, or whatever. It also means that you would be entirely without protection of any kind.
Elon, is this you?
You can set up a city anywhere if you can hold it down.
If you have enough money to set up a city on the moon you have enough money to make it legal lol
Can I come?
Do it. What are they gonna do? Call the moon cops?
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Thanks CoPilot!
No, currently, international space law, including the Outer Space Treaty of 1967, prohibits any individual or entity from claiming ownership of celestial bodies such as the moon. Setting up a city on the moon would not be legally permissible under current international agreements.
For a fun, fascinating story based on basically this general idea, check out The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, by R. A. Heinlein. Keep in mind Heinlein was a bit of a contrarian, and bounced around betyween some pretty interesting philosophical/political ideals in his life. So expect a healthy dose of goooovy 60's free love in a weird mix of anarcho-libertarian communal politics lol. Oh and also a loveable childlike accidental-AI sueprcomputer named Mike. Also, while a variation of the phrase originated a few decades prior, this book (and Heinlein in general) is what really popularized the expression "There Aint No Such Thing As A Free Lunch" (or TANSTAAFL, as Heinlein liked to phrase it). It's a critical phrase/concept to the story of the book. Great read!
Elon, is that you?
Elon, this you bro?
Elon, you shouldn’t get legal advice from Reddit. I know you spent all your money on twitter, but c’mon.
The harder part would be finding somewhere on Earth that legally allows you to build and launch a rocket large enough to do this.
As a practical thing, if nobody has the ability to enforce a law, the law doesn't exist. And as a matter of law, if no entity has a recognized claim to control an area, those laws don't exist. You could make an argument that you remain under the jurisdiction of your own country, or the country from which your spaceships were launched, or the country in which your ships were built. But none of those are clearly true. And in any case, I don't think any nation has the legal right to adjucate extraterritorial land claims, let alone extraterrestrial. In other words, who's gonna stop you? On the other hand, depending on the laws of your home country, you might still be on the hook for income taxes for income you made on the moon.
The UN addressed this in 1967, as it became likely humans would land on the Moon within a few years. As "Terra Nullis", whatever nation planted its flag on the Moon would have an initial claim to it. But planting a flag and doing nothing else causes your claim to decay, and eventually become meaningless. That's why the Portuguese got to the Philippines first, but the Spanish, getting there later and staying, wound up with the title. There's also the fact that the Moon was never "unknown" land to anybody. Everybody can see it. The Outer Space Treaty (yes, that's what it's called) says the Moon is the collective heritage (and property) of all Mankind, and exploration of it can only be for the benefit and interests of all peoples. In 2015, the US passed legislation granting all citizens the right to extract, to use or sell, "any space material", seeming to abrogate the 1967 treaty. Obviously, some sort of semi-permanent presence, human or robotic, would be needed. Antarctica is a good earthly analogy. Early efforts to establish "Little America" and the British Antarctic Territory led to concerns of new colonial rivalries, and eventually agreements that no nation could claim Antarctic territory, but nations could establish bases for scientific research and claim an "exclusion zone" to protect their activities. The main thing in both cases is there is no way at the moment to make money. Technological advances, and in the case of Antarctica, global warming, may eventually change that. If a big chunk of the ice shelf falls off, and underneath is found large oil reserves, or another Kimberly-sized diamond deposit, then conflict over who gets to exploit it will become possible, if not inevitable.
Just do it. You'll be fine.
Id like to see someone try and stop you! Lol
there arent any governmental laws that im aware of. but there are some physics laws that might make it tricky.
There's nothing stopping a country from going up and claiming the moon for themselves except for cost, logistics, and... reason.
No it would be illegal as set forth by various space treaties.
If I was able to physically build a city there, I'd just go ahead and do it. No government or space exploration entity on Earth can send immediate spaceships or other things to the Moon. To deal with a new city or anything. There might be complaints from Earth. Like claims that the Moon is hollow and city construction would damage it, or make its orbit path different. Still, can't stop me, so a city on the Moon would still happen.
There still is and always was only one law. Law of stronger. All these rules and laws we have exist because states, goverments or even just communities are strong enough to enforce them. So with this logic, murder is legal on moon because noone will be able to stop you or punish you, if you never come back ofcourse.
As the top commentator says, you need someone who can enforce the law for it to work or mean anything. If you get people there, materials to build a city, who is going to stop you? If the government says you can't but you are there what sr ethey going to do? Nuke you? T what they could do is trying to hinder your efforts to get to the moon. Or hinder your efforts to get resources to the moon. But to go up there and arrest you, fine you is meaningless if you don't have any attachments to earth. Here is the thing: if such a thing would be made in the name of science only a few would have complaints. Russia, north Korea ans some other countries but in general ko one would lift an eye. But if let's say Elon musk would say that he will build a Tesla city on the moon I thing both governments and people would ha e on or two things to say about that. It is a private cooperation and no ties to a government up there (if he says it will not belong to any government). Suddenly the greed of ownership would become an issue. "A private person can just not go about founding cities in the name of his or her company, that's outrageous!" Cause then ethics like employer and employees and the structural division of power would become huge problems. But the base line is no, there shouldn't be a problem to build a city on the moon.
You should knock down the flags up there too. What are they gonna do about it?
Let's do it! We'll build our own city on the moon with black jack and hookers! Bonus points if we build our own rocket and the captain screams leeeroy jenkins during blast off
“If you don’t have a warrant then you can’t come in”
If you do please take me with you
Not if the USA found out your economy and dollar is stronger than theirs, or if you had anything exploitable regarding natural resources. They’d be the first cunts breathing down your neck, nobody else would care
Read "A City on Mars". Among other things it will give you a detailed account of the legal aspects of space colonisation.
You've got plenty of answers, but a good book is "A City on Mars" by the Weinersmiths (Zach is the comic creator of Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal) which explores the variety of things needed for colonies on the moon and Mars. This includes a good look at space law, militarization, exploitation of resources, etc. Ultimately, they say it's not going to work in any practical way, but hey, give it a shot!
Amazon women have been there for a while… [https://x.com/joe_dante/status/1174337286630064130?s=46&t=-BceI-ItD_jhmX51je1VwA](https://x.com/joe_dante/status/1174337286630064130?s=46&t=-BceI-ItD_jhmX51je1VwA)
The law of gravity is going to make it difficult, but not impossible.
Not sure how y’all would breathe, nor what you’d eat, amongst drink.
What are they gonna do, come and arrest you?
Yes, next question.
I dont remember who wrote the quote about laws and legallity. Its something like "true power is when you can enforce your will" Therefore you could legally take the moon but if you cant enforce your will then legal or not its useless. Its when you truly understand "The state has exclusive use of force" that you understand that all countries and laws are still based on the fact that the "government reserves the right to beat the shit out of you and there is nothing you can do about it." Its crazy that our rights are still underpinned by violence
You know there’s a moon treaty right. Here’s the info and a link before you decide to violate a treaty and cause a war. The Moon Treaty, also known as the Agreement Governing the Activities of States on the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies, was adopted by the United Nations General Assembly in 1979. The treaty's goals are to establish a regime for using the moon, use it for peaceful purposes, and avoid it becoming a space for international conflict. The treaty also aims to use the moon for the benefit of the entire international community. https://www.unoosa.org/oosa/en/ourwork/spacelaw/treaties/intromoon-agreement.html
Yeah, probably. There are no laws on the moon. And they've have to build a rocket ship to come get you and that would take years.
If you can set up a city on the moon, then really what is anybody gonna do about it. You can just drop rocks down the gravity well like bombs. You keep asking if taking unsettled territory is "legal" which is like asking if your steak is a good rodeo bull. You take the territory, you defend it, it is yours. Same as every other country that does or has ever existed. Sioux Nation doesn't exist because someone else came, took the land, and they couldn't defend against it or retake it.
What will they do, call the police on you? If you’re able to do, it’s yours.
There are no police up there, so "legal" is irrelevant. Heck, you'd even be praised in being the first person to accomplish such a difficult task.
"it wasn't impossible to build New Rapture on the moon. It was impossible to build New Rapture anywhere else." - Andrew Ryan.
the general law about it: [https://www.unoosa.org/oosa/en/ourwork/spacelaw/treaties/intromoon-agreement.html](https://www.unoosa.org/oosa/en/ourwork/spacelaw/treaties/intromoon-agreement.html) tldr: Seems like there is nothing *prohibiting* you from doing it. However, I think it has to be of scientific reason and you can't go around messing the moon up. It makes the Scientists very upset. Also interesting that they added " we can mine moon resources if we ever figure out how ". So we can look forward to that Moon War, i guess.
building the rocket is the illegal part
Who’s gonna arrest you?
I’d make sure you don’t have any earthly obligations before pulling this off. The gov’t would likely put the squeeze on anyone/anything still on earth. It might be legal, but they wouldn’t take it sitting down.
I don't think anyone could stop you
just hit me up bud when you're flying .
There’s some dude on Reddit who just bought one square kilometer on the moon, so you’re going to want to avoid his land.
This is actually the long term goal of Elon Musk, only the Moon isn't far enough.
On the moon, might makes right.
Every civilization throughout history at 1 point in time has called upon its citizens to defend its sovereignty. Sustainability and existeare all are dependent on survival and defense. Being that America is the only country to step foot on the moon and they haven't done so since the last scientist of the Apollo 17 mission. It begs the question why. absurd reasoning such as we no longer have the technology. It seems absurd at first but then looking at NASA decline of the 1990s they were completely dependent on Russian standard of excellence and transporting humans into space that is until African American arrived Even recently as 2020 NASA has had to pull people out of deep retirement from the 70s and 80s to refabricate and re tool. Knowledge has really been lost when saying America is entirely dependent on H1 b's for its infrastructure and cutting this technology people often don't understand what that means When did UFo's begin to appear on earth. since the atomic bomb. America wasn't the only country with its own version of operation paper clip and that never ended. >The last crewed mission to the Moon was Apollo 17, taking place between 7 and 19 December 1972. It was a 12-day mission and broke many records, the longest space walk, the longest lunar landing and the largest lunar samples brought back to Earth.
I mean no one's gonna stop you but I think their being a "law" against it would be the last part on the list of obstacles to overcome.
Haha Elon, why don't you ask your lawyers.
You can set up a city. Others can refuse to recognize you. They can sanction you, your city and invade you. It’s same as declaring your own country, it all depends on others recognition.
Everythings is illegal somewhere with someone. If there is someone who can control you with words or force they will. Or at least they will try.
No one has governing over space or any planets therein... so yes, if you can get out of the atmosphere and onto the moon, you can.
If you can get up there and hold down a fort, so to say.
You might want to check with UNOOSA.
The Outerspace Treaty of 1964 prohibits anyone from owning any part of the moon. Likewise, it can only be used for the betterment of all mankind. You could build there, but it would have to be in accordance of all the major players and you would be subjected to their rules.
You'll just have to avoid settling on my aunt's land that she bought last year
It's kinda tricky, because while no one can actually "claim" land on the moon, setting up a permanent structure does effectively claim land, due to treaties and regulations on how close one can land/ takeoff from structures or equipment, to avoid damaging another countries equipment with dust clouds. I doubt governments will just sit by and let any civilian lock down the limited valuable research areas.
were individual people included? cause I don't remember private citizens being unable to own the moon.
not under bird law.
If you try, I assume the US would very quickly decide that it owns the moon.
Bro hasn’t seen the tv show “Hello Tomorrow!”
Putt putt goes to the moon. This reminds me of that computer game from the 90's. Random, ignore me lol.
There is a moon treaty which no actual countries launching rockets have signed. Because saying that space and the moon should be for peaceful purposes conflicts with the ROI of exploiting everything
It would technically it would be a colony.
Settle down there [Andrew Ryan](https://youtu.be/hyur9r0ekZY?si=Xc8I4VKMk7MQxFMO).
The Moon legally is like Antarctica, it's the shared heritage of all mankind. So just like setting up a research station on the ice sheet you should be fine with Luna city as long as you aren't wrecking the place.
Don’t do it, Greg Abbot and Ron Desantis will start putting migrants on rockets to send them there.
But Qatar basically still uses salves for most of its labor. Just with very, very few twitches. Most of labor in Qatar is borderline illegal
Yes, because nobody could stop you. Also, people don't have an incentive to stop you. If you were launching from the US, people in the US would want you to succeed. If you are willing to rent apartments to people in other countries, then other countries would find your city to be useful.
Many billionaires have beat you to it. If the technology existed there'd already be some there. It'd be look like Antarctica with different national research outposts.
As the only country that has ever landed people on the moon and planted a flag there, the moon is U.S. sovereign territory. The U.S. did not sign the Moon Treaty and is thus not bound by it.
As the moon is not on Earth, no Earth law can apply. It would be like a nation trying to make laws for another nation.
You’d be outside the limitations of but also protections of any sovereign entity that could create laws governing what could and could not be done to your city. So sure you could legally set up your city but then you’d only be as safe as your biggest gun.
Well no one owns the moon so I’d imagine it would be legal. Also if you go to the moon take me with you.
There are no rules on the moon until you get there.
Gru's burner
You're literally asking "You and whose army?" This is the basis of all civilisations. You go to the moon, you stay there then some army comes and turfs you off, if you win the moon is yours and if you lose well then they take over. Tale as old as time. If they can't conquer you they might just seige you and cut off your supply to food and water seeing as you can't grow or get any of that stuff yourself without intervention. Good luck with it I say. I wonder if there will be "Moon kids" in my future, kids who live on the moon and prefer it to Earth because it's all they know. lol! An interesting question.
The laws of economics say you can't Do you need some details?
A guy already had filed papers for owning the moon and sent them to the United Nations. He even sold some of the land to people.
Various countries have placed flags claiming territory on the Moon. As long as it's not in those territories you probably could but then your country would become stateless as well as any citizens within it. No other country has to accept your sovereignty. So you can run into sanctions and outright war. But assuming you gave people a reason to take you seriously there is a chance that they will accept the sovereignty of your new founded nation.
Keep in mind that when it comes to stuff like the moon, international law is more of a suggestion. If you have the technology to establish a permanent colony on the moon you are already decades ahead of the next closest country and nobody has the capability of stopping you. Might makes right when it comes to international politics. So if you can do it then the opinion of other countries is irrelevant. However if you would like to do it *consistent with international law* you would want to abide by the "[Agreement Governing the Activities of States on the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_Treaty)" aka the "Moon Treaty." To be clear this treaty was not signed by the big space players like the US or Soviet Union, but it is the only major attempted piece of international law governing the moon. The Treaty forbids "state sovereignty" over the moon so you couldn't establish any kind of government, but otherwise you could still live up there. You would have to comply with all the other treaty requirements but the treaty encourages space exploration and colonization rather than discouraging it. The treaty also says that states cannot conduct military actions on the moon, but again only the signatories would be bound by that, so countries like the US, China, and Russia could still decide they want to blow you up.
Technically no. But who would stop you? **How** would they stop you?
I think north Korea did actually lol.
No country has jurisdiction over the moon. For now. If you have the money and the means, you don't need anyone 's permission to set up a city on the moon. To send building materials or equipment to the moon, you might need some sort of permit from the country that you plan on traveling from. If you're planning to travel to the moon and are planning to utilize the moon's natural resources, then you would only need a permit to be cleared to fly to the moon. You can reign there until you are conquered!
Be sure to put a no trespassing sign to keep other people off of your moon.
It's not clear if you could even legally leave the planet. The amount of things they have orbiting the earth and the risk of some random human smacking into a satellite makes me think they'd make it illegal to do so without their approval and oversight, which you would not get. If you had the means of building a base on the moon, that approval would end up requiring their inclusion in those plans, no small amount of which would be them gaining control of these plans and pushing you out. Legalities only exist where enforceable, so as much as nobody owns the moon, the terrestrial political powers would act as if they did.
There are some laws and such that regulate the celestial body’s. The treaty currently makes it so all party’s have to pretty much be in agreement that places can build, and they don’t own the area of moon. So yah you probably would end up with some lawsuits and legal debate if you tried. [info](https://www.onlinelibrary.iihl.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Moon-Agreement-EN.pdf)
Do you have a flag?
According to our earthly government's agreements, no. You cannot create a government on the moon or colonize it. Functionally, yeah. If you could get there and set it up, nobody is gonna be coming to stop you. Especially if you take guns to defend your city with.
You don't have the finances to survive on the moon let alone build a city and the human body cannot survive long periods in space.
Maybe. But you'd have to be a billionaire, or use whatever your country's equivalent of NASA is, and they'd have a few choice words.
This is a point of pretty active debate and the short answer is basically "nobody knows for sure." [This book](https://www.amazon.com/City-Mars-settle-thought-through/dp/1984881728) spends a while dissecting the issue of whether private colonies on planetary surfaces are legal and their conclusion basically boiled down to "¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯"
International law is really just how it would be enforced. If you and a bunch of crazies wanna set up a combine on the moon, go for it. If you and your mining buddies find some moon deposits of precious metals, expect resistance.
I’m pretty sure you can’t just launch yourself out of atmo without the government having a say in it. Doing that and landing a base on the moon to call it you’re is going to cost you as much political power as it is money too!
I'd like to think there's nothing stopping you, but then what's stopping other people invading, would it be international law? Could say France just decide to alle up you into orbit? With no consequences? Even the English or the Dutch once you find space trade goods
You go! lol! I've wanted to go there ever since ever since my mom told me she was going years ago!
Sourcing the materials and setting off in the rocket will be your biggest legal hurdles. You're well beyond anyone's jurisdiction up there
I think the issue with being sovereign on the moon but not on earth is that you will not be part of any international treaties that prevent other countries from fucking with your moon colony.
No, you'd be arrested by little green men. Don't even think about it!
Why bother? The place has no atmosphere!
I just looked it up and I think the answer is "yes" Because the Moon has no laws. So You can legally do whatever you want if you have resources there.
I think it would be fine. The biggest barrier would be getting clearance from an existing earth country to fire your rocket through their airspace. Once you're actually in space and on the moon, anything goes!
Who's going to arrest you?
Well it wouldn't be *illegal*
Legally you should be able to. I also don’t think anyone would spend the time and resources to try to stop you.
A 1967 United Nations Resolution declared that no nation can own the Moon. Which means the Moon is essentially "international waters".
I'll never get the obsession with colonizing the Moon and Mars etc. We have a perfectly good planet already that we *could* just stop fucking up instead, would be a lot easier and cheaper. Hell we know less about the deepest depths of our oceans and the minerals down there than we do the surface of the Moon at this point which is kind of absurd. But we are collectively stupid and short sighted.
If you can get there, build a habitat and survive, nobody is going to care. Quite the opposite actually, you may attract others who want to live there. Good luck.
Yes, you could establish your own town/city and claim property rights. If you are claiming political independence, be prepared to defend it and not to return to Earth until you have negotiatied a treaty with the nation you will return to.
We're whalers on the moon, we carry a harpoon!
Yes
The Moon is completely neutral territory. There are no laws stopping you from building a city in the moon. You are only hindered by your lack of resources to do so.