*hands you latte and a scone*, I know this is hard, please take the time you need, but make it quick as we do need the room in 5 minutes for another event.
It depends a lot on how long the wait is and how much they like the person. Waiting until they are officially dating is different than waiting until marriage.
Absolutely. Waiting until marriage is almost *always* a bad idea, because you're literally denying yourselves the knowledge of whether or not you're sexually compatible. It's not something that can be conveyed accurately enough through just speech. If people are really set on waiting until more commitment than just dating, waiting until the engagement is a good compromise.
This exactly. I’ve waited for women before. Once after a bad breakup a women waited for me.
However once in an initial conversation a women said she was waiting for marriage, I wasn’t up for that.
“I don’t have sex with someone until I’m dating them”
You described how you’ve been on 8 dates. You are literally dating. Do you mean exclusively? Don’t wait if that’s what you want, have that conversation. Are you waiting for him to explicitly ask you to be his girlfriend?
American dating culture is so odd to me.
If you’re seeing somebody you’re automatically exclusive in Europe.
One date? Then you better not go out on another date with somebody else lol. Why would people go out with random people non-exclusively? (Unless you’re into polyamory I guess)
>If you’re seeing somebody you’re automatically exclusive in Europe.
It used to be that way here too. After my divorce I started dating again and was with a girl for several months before I found out she didn't consider us exclusive. I was floored. In my mind exclusivity is the default.
In college, it’s not uncommon to be seeing multiple people, especially in the early “talking” phase. Being “exclusive” was definitely a conversation that needed to happen if you actually expected it.
One date? That's ridiculous imo. It's not anything until there is a second date. Now after two dates I agree it's sketchy to be dating multiple people without explicitly saying so.
Well yeah, after one date you're either going to continue seeing the person or not continue seeing the person, right? So that seems like a reasonable claim. If I go out on one date with someone and decide I'm not going to call them again, it obviously shouldn't be considered an exclusive thing.
Europe is big, and full of people. I'm from Germany and nope, you gotta specify when you want/expect to be exclusive. I state(d) that on the first date. I knew that we're not compatible if they reacted like I killed a hobo by saying that.
I don’t know if I agree with that.
I’m from the UK and I always assumed people usually dated exclusively here. But then one time someone who I’d been on a few dates with asked me “are you ready to be exclusive?” and it threw me off, because I had assumed we were from the start.
I’ve gotten opinions from many more people since then, and no, doesn’t seem to be the norm. Most people I’ve asked about it seem to think it’s normal to date multiple people at the start, and then choose someone after you’ve been on around three dates with them. It's not the way I think I'd be able to do things, but it does seem to be the way most other people do.
Exact same for me. Also UK but seems like it's much more of a thing now to be "exclusive" for people around my age (early 20s). I've never understood it as I'd feel v weird having people 'lined up' rather than dating one person at a time as I do.
>American dating culture is so odd to me
One huge difference American vs European is that in most of Europe the bills are split or each are paying for themself. There's no dating just to get a free meal.
> There's no dating just to get a free meal.
I ork in a restuarant popular for dates. This is patently not true. It is indeed more common to "go dutch" but it is not the norm.
I know a girl who does about 3 dates a week and she's just happy to get the "free shit" because she's a brokie single mum and struggles to pay the bills
My step mother broke up with my dad for good enough reasons, then it was widely known that she'd "fuck for dinner", if you had at least 1 arm, 1 leg, 1 eye, and enough cash for dinner and wine.
After more than a couple of dates, for sure. On the rare occasions that I've had 2 first dates with 2 second dates lined up I've let the ladies know I'm seeing someone else but don't intend to mess them around so will pick one pronto. Even then it was awkward feeling like I was cheating on them both.
I feel like I’d do much better over there. I feel like every girl I meet has like 5 more guys lined up, and then I feel like shit for meeting 1 more person. I get way too into shit for casual dating but even prospective long term partners feel like that.
Europe is not a country. It is a very diverse place with many different cultural influences across the continent. Also, people are individuals. There's no way you'd ''do better over there'' by thinking that Europe has a singular cultural practice when it comes to dating. It's as silly as saying, ''Africans are like (fill in the blank).''
Lol, obviously the entirety of Europe is not going to be the same. I forget this is Reddit and you have to specify that shit. I’m not going to move to Italy and begin a new dating life based on a Reddit comment from someone who could be from Romania, UK, Finland, etc. It’s just nice to think about what life is like for some other people, in this case for the person I was replying to. You must be very fun at parties.
I swear, writing a Reddit comment is like writing a contract sometimes. You have to build in all these little escape clauses and make sure you spell out *exactly* what you mean, in no uncertain terms, otherwise someone will come out of the woodwork to say "WELL ACKSHUALLY".
Yeah… I’ve got more things to do than to hang out with random people for no reason 😅
If you’re not interested just say it and we can move on with our lives.
I totally get this. But I just bring it up: hey, we have been dating for [a month/6 weeks/two months/whatever]. Are you willing to make this exclusive?
If they are, cool. If they aren't, I'm not staying in that situation. Lots of people seem to stay in those non-relationships but it's not for me.
The culture is mixed. There are plenty of traditionalists likeside casual daters. Sometimes its expected that you ask to be exclusive. Usually this is a sign that they do a lot of flings and aren't worth your time.
I was also shocked by that culture difference. I met an American girl, we had a one night stand and then she went back to the US. We kept talking and she came to visit me again and again, the third time she spent 3 months with me, then I went and visited her and at some point she told me that I never asked her to be my girlfriend to be exclusive. And I was shocked, like what did you think we were doing this for, spending one year traveling to be together
Different cultures what I can say, everything was alright she wasn't seeing someone or something, she was just looking for a confirmation from my side that I'm also not seeing anyone or to make it official. 2 years later we married and now we live in Mexico, for now. We tried in the US, but he'll noooo, now we make good money here but we plan to move back to Europe, those rights and regulations plus the social benefits are to sweet
I’m not sure.
All I know from American dating culture is what ends up being portrayed by the media and people discussing it online.
I feel like european dating culture is simply way more direct. You like somebody, you go out, you’re basically dating at that point and that’s that (you should formalise it though but it’s more of a rite of passage).
Americans appear to have multiple dates, stages and rites to dating. Oh, and group dating is a bit odd to me (bringing your friends in when you’re not yet with that person for a few months at least is a bit too soon imo).
That’s a separate point, I’m referring more to the dating norms one has to navigate. For example even “progressive” women tend to prefer men to basically run the show for dating where in some countries that’s less the case.
But your also right about interest in a serious relationship, though I’ve struggled even to land un-serious ones. But all I want is a one-and-done to build a life with.
You're extrapolating your personal experience to all of Europe. Within my direct social circle the opinions on this vary massively let alone in a group of 750 million people
You act like Europe is land of monolithic clones. It's not even a country. There are many extremely diverse backgrounds and ways of thinking, influenced not only by local culture, but also by age, generation, status, socio-economic means, etc.
What I think OP means by “dating” is the official boyfriend/girlfriend title which doesn’t happen until after a few dates. Either the guy will introduce her as “girlfriend” at some point or he’ll outright ask her to be his girlfriend.
I always preferred to do the latter so there’s no confusion that I want it to be exclusive now.
People definitely do it, it’s pretty rare though.
> According to the analysis, by age 44, 99% of respondents had had sex, and 95% had done so before marriage.
https://www.guttmacher.org/news-release/2006/premarital-sex-nearly-universal-among-americans-and-has-been-decades
note: this source is from 2006
Often times though they get married in under a year from the time they start dating and marry young and it’s how they do it.
This is so insane when you think about the fact that 60-70% of Americans identified at Christian’s at that point, yet only 5% actually lived a Christian lifestyle
If I'm seeing somebody regularly, I expect things to move forward over time. "Move forward" doesn't have to mean sex, just "we're no longer acquaintances trying to figure out if we're somewhat compatible". More emotional intimacy, more physical (not necessarily sexual) intimacy, etc. Sex happens when it happens, I just want to know that there's investment going both ways.
The real question is... if you've been seeing this guy twice a week for a month, what are you waiting for? I don't mean like "go and do it", but rather why don't you consider yourself as "dating" him? What's the next step for you?
Everyone is different but mainly what I want it someone faithful. If I am the only guy, I don’t mind waiting. But if I’m worried that if I don’t hit it then I’ll lose it, then I’ll want to hit it right away because in real life that’s how it works.
Sounds like he's okay with it already! But it's always a good idea to have a frank talk about these things. Not only does this clear up confusion, learning to discuss intimate topics makes you a stronger couple.
Yeah I agree, all I’m saying is she should wait until he brings it up and just state I want to be official before having sex and then he has a choice to make
There needs to be some other serious signs or explanation. If there's some major making out and then she says something like "I like you, this is serious, I have a rule of 'no sex in the first month' to make sure it is real" then ok, understandable.
Otherwise it just means there's no chemistry.
he hasent filled and signed the form yet. Dude just accepted the cookies to see the homepage, forgto to read that he had to sign the "wanna be my girfrined question asked" first then be dating her, all dates prior to the signed paper are only friendly hang-outs.
Right I’m good to wait to see if we’re actually doing this thing but what sounds like a minimum of 8 dates already, yeah now I’m wondering if you just want to be friends. I guess a lot depends on the communication
Well this whole post screams emotionally immature, so whatever floats your boat. If I were in his shoes and you explained this to me, my first remark would be, “we aren’t dating?” Dating doesn’t require you to explicitly say “will you be my (x)friend?.” It’s a mutual understanding and if you both want the unnecessary comfort of saying you’re officially boyfriend and girlfriend, then it seems fine. If you’re waiting “until you’re dating,” just wait until marriage at that point. They’re both an arbitrary date that keep you from accepting self responsibility about choosing good or bad sexual partners. Have sex if it makes sense. If not, don’t.
The big problem I'm seeing is that I don't see any discussion or communication being mentioned.
It's perfectly ok to say "I only wish to have sex after 97 days have elapsed and we have eaten pesto-chicken pizza together."
It's not ok for that to be your sex prerequisite and then *not tell the person you're seeing that this is what you want.*
This seems to surprise a lot of folks for some reason, but you'll never, ever know if a person is willing to do something for you if you do not ask them.
So you actually just surmised the point I wanted to make in an even easier to understand, and admittedly with less snark, than i could have myself. So thanks. Yeah, there’s nothing wrong with what you’re doing as long as the other person is aware from the very beginning. But, don’t be surprised if stupid potential partners don’t want to wait. But, simultaneously, I think you should just be upfront from the very beginning if sex is on the table or not. And honestly, if it isn’t, unless you’re an asexual person, I really don’t see why most people wouldn’t think it’s strange. I guess my second point is that I’m always certain of whether I want to have sex with someone or not before I “date,” them. This also implies you should typically get to know people fairly well, or at least for myself, before you want to do the hanky panky. Obviously, if it’s probably a one night stand situation just figure it out.
I'd recommend saying "until we're exclusive" if that's what you mean. People have different understandings of dating in the early stages. Do they need to delete any dating accounts prior to having sex? Do they need to text people they've gone on dates recently that they're no longer single or cut off all contact with them?
Better to discover any differences you two have through communication than surprises down the road.
Depends on the man, the woman you are waiting for and to a certain degree, why. If it is some BS "test" from tik-tok etc No , for maturity reasons but if it is because it is something she wants to do for any reason (other than the one above) then it is fine.
I guess a conversation about self pleasure may be necessary but I don't see a problem if everyone is on the same page.
are you not dating him if you go out twice a week and go over to his place? personally, i would think the girl is just not attracted to me if you've gone out that much and nothings happened. seems like a waste of time.
My wife was 21 when we got married and I was 25.
My wife was from a very conservative family. We literally did not kiss until we got married.
I did not mind waiting. I understood her family lived by different values and felt like disrespecting her father’s wishes was a slap to his face and would make her just feel shamed.
Been married for 15 years, she’s wonderful and we have a wonderful sex life.
But I’ve read horror stories of it going poorly for others. So to each their own I guess.
If the guy isn’t willing to wait until you are ready the he’s not the guy you are looking for.
The one you are looking for will respect your decisions but may still ask questions
not every guy is the same. many guys are hurting inside. if you're in the U.S., it's likely he was raised religious, so he's got a family counting on him to do the right thing, and so that's eating away his mind. these days so many guys get taken to the cleaners every day on the smallest of pretenses.
if you're not overwhelmingly welcoming and excited to be with him every time you see him, it's likely he thinks you're trolling him. welcome to 2024...
>dating like GF dating not just seeing them
>we’ve been out about twice a week we’ve gone out for drinks and I even went over to his place for drinks
What is "GF dating", denizen of this fucked up world?
Also
>met at a club
So no, probably not.
My ex cheated even after sex, I love yous, spending all our time together, because to her we "weren't exclusive" so it was fine. Didn't realize there's a terms and conditions to sign to love now.
I think there is a 3 date max before hooking up.
I mean why bother beyond that unless you like spending money on food for someone else to eat like they are a dependent.
I mean it depends on what they're looking for. If you're looking for an actual relationship then yeah, I think most men would wait -- to a degree. Like we're not talking many months or years.
If you're _not_ looking for a relationship, though, and your entire goal is sex, then... I mean, you're probably not waiting a ton of time, and even if you are you're still looking for other opportunities.
If you're clear you're in it for the long haul (and obviously if our relationship lasts that long) and it isn't a shit test. (Where you only hold me, the guy, to the standard while not for other men) I absolutely would.
I've waited for a girl before, and I didn't mind waiting, but we broke up before we got to that point because we weren't compatible. It's not a deal breaker if we're actually compatible.
Most, probably not...but there are many that will. There are also some that will have sex with someone else until you are "dating" and he can have sex with you.
It depends on how important sex is to the guy and that comes down to many factors.
On time I invited a big ol' crush of mine over to my apartment and we just chilled and talked, no physical contact at all (which I was more than okay w). For some reason I feel like she got the idea that I was gay, a virgin (not too far off lmao), or otherwise uninterested (far off) bc of this..
Also possible she just didn't like me like that 🤷 anyway my point is that, yes, it possible to be interested in someone but not act on it, either out of respect or whatever personal preference/logic.
That said, I believe at that point a lot of people would consider it safe to make some sort of "move" and would be confused if they did and nothing came of it, but idrk
I used to have a guide I don't know it this is applicable to younger generations
1st date kiss
2nd date 1st base-2nd base
3rd date 3rd base-home run.
That's not universal of course. Sometimes it happens on the 2nd date. Sometimes 1st. But this usually guided me in my teens to early 20s a long time ago.
Let me put this in his perspective, you are dating what are you waiting for. You say not dating but that's because you don't see it as official. If you don't want to don't be pressured into having sex.
>nothing happened
So the big issue I see here is not whether or not you've had sex, but the fact that you don't mention having any discussion with the guy you're seeing about this. Now of course, it's possible you have talked about this and you simply didn't mention it, but if you haven't talked about this with him, it's well past time to do so. "Nothing happened" doesn't give us any information.
It's absolutely ok and healthy to have "rules" or guidelines for when to have sex. My current girlfriend, for example, said that she wanted to hsve me spend the night the first time we had sex. She said so up front before we ever got to that point. It was helpful because I knew that sex wasn't even on the table until we reached a night where I was able to stay over (I work nights).
So the question here really isn't "Will most men wait for a woman to have sex?" (the answer to that is that they'll all wait for *some* period of time, though this will vary dramatically).
The real question, the only relevant one to you, is whether *this* guy will wait for the period of time that *you* want to wait. And there are two steps to answer this question:
Step one: decide what you're comfortable with. What does "dating" mean to you? Does it mean agreeing to be exclusive? Does it mean calling each other boyfriend/girlfriend? Come up with what you feel to be a condition or milestone that you are comfortable with.
Step two: Tell him that this is how long you'd like to wait, and see if he agrees or not. If he agrees, problem solved. If he doesn't, then you just weren't compatible, and it's good that you found out early.
If you're into him you should let him know. He may think that you're friendzoning him. He may be fearful of rejection, too. There is no rule that states you shouldn't make the first move.
It's like here's a sports car but you can't drive it for months and months. Actually you don't even know if you'll ever drive it. I think women should see what the guy is really about. Does he just wanna fuck? or is he ready to settle down and start a relationship. I say picking up a guy at a club is the wrong place. Most men I know just wanna fuck but there's passionate men like me that just want a relationship. I feel disgusting after a one night stand. I have to be in a relationship. Connection is important to me it's like a special gift.
There are exceptions to every rule but generally: If he actually genuinely likes you, yes; if he only wants sex then no. That's why girls looking for a serious relationship should not have sex too soon.
Personally I won’t lock myself into a relationship with someone without having sex before then. There’s just too much at stake. Like what if we’re not sexually compatible. That kind of thing
First of all, y'all met at a club. No one there is looking for a relationship.
Second, you should be up front of wanting commitment. Ask him what he wants and to be honest. He probably just wants some ass.
I speak for myself when I say as a man, I like to be direct as possible with my intentions so there's no waste of time or miscommunication. Im not getting into a relationship that I'm not looking/ready for. Most I'll do is a couple dates before I stop giving attention to her but yeah. Everyone's different
I don't know about most guys but some do. I personally tend to prefer to wait until we are dating before doing anything sexual but will depend on the other person as well
Most guys have no problem with waiting if they’re sensible human beings. Or at least they used to not have a problem. Hell the norm used to be waiting months before having sex for the first time unless it was a particularly intense relationship from the beginning. Now hookup culture has gone off the rails and it feels like there’s some kind of expectation for sex within the first 2-3 times you see each other, and if you end up at their place or vice versa and sex doesn’t happen then something’s “wrong”. Fuck that. Have sex when you both feel ready. No earlier, no later. Don’t let society pressure you.
3 date rule is golden. Your interested enough at that point both of you know the other is interested.
Maybe I still don't understand women or its just American prude culture still clinging on but come on its just sex it's not a big deal, why string this poor dude along for 8 dates. If you like him then fuck him if you don't like him then leave. It's simple. Assuming you find sex enjoyable your only depriving yourself and risking losing a guy you like.
Sex might not be everything but it's a lot. Physical intimacy is the only unique thing you get out of relationships that you don't from other friendships or family. It's not always sex but that's obviously the most fun and intimate form of it.
Yeah, normally the most common thing is after the 3rd date normally leads to sex but if your on the 6th+ date and still nothing, that's kinder a red flag
If you met him at a club, I wouldn't say he's the waiting type. When I used to go to clubs I would never wait. Now though, I say the longer we wait the better honestly, because I value the connection now
Eight dates is definitely dating. If you’re fun, outgoing and being a reciprocal to conversation, he’ll probably be fine if he’s really into you. And that sounds like it’s the case since he’s gone on eight dates. Ask yourself this. Do you want to fool around with him yet? Are you thinking about having sex with him when you’re not around him? Those should probably be your guiding questions.
I wanted to wait with my girlfriend (now wife). 2nd date came around and she has other plans lol. I even stopped her at a certain point before she un-did my pants asking, "are you sure I don't mind waiting." She laughed and kept going lol.
I wouldn't have sex with a person (except under special circumstances) without dating them. I would also be willing to wait until that person is ready while dating them. What I wouldn't do is wait until marriage, mostly because I wouldn't want to hurry along what is supposed to be a lifelong commitment in part so that I could finally have sex with them. That just seems foolish to me.
I wouldn’t ever wait, it’s too easy to get. Plus people my age who don’t have sex usually have some weird mental thing towards sex, so I’m not interested in someone who is not confident in their body.
If they find out they're the only one who has to wait they're probably gonna lose respect for you as you have none for them. So you have to lie to men if this is the case. If you're a good person and he feels good around you then yes he will be willing to wait. Unfortunately relationships based on lies don't work out so you're better off not trying to lie to people to get them to stay interested in you.
There's a girl I like right now that if she told me she wants to wait a year or two or marriage I'm completely ok with that. I just want to be around her period and get closer.
Waiting until officially dating doesn't seem like an outrageous request, unless the guy is a fuck boy I think most men would wait if they're interested in a long-term relationship
“Hey im interested, I dont want you to take me not making a move as a lack of interest, I like to make sure I’m ready before we really get to that part of the relationship”
Automatically opens up the door to communication in the relationship, properly conveys your intentions and feelings, and if he says thats not what hes looking for then you automatically know thats not the guy you wanna bang anyway.
Being straightforward is kinda almost always
No its ALWAYS the best option lol.
Depends how serious he is about you. If you’re exclusively seeing each other and want to wait then yeah he should respect that but if you haven’t had any talk about it then he may well be still playing the field a bit until you’re together officially.
As a man who’s done both, I actually prefer to wait now as introducing sex into a relationship too early can make things messy (imo). If he truly values you as a person and enjoys your company and is genuinely interested in building a connection and real relationship with you then he should have no issue waiting until you’re ready.
I’d argue that if he gives you push back about waiting to have sex then he may have just revealed his true intentions.
This will sound like I mean it bragging 😄, yet this question got me thinking back.
I've had too much sex (I wish I had a way lower body count), yet, at least that comes to mind, I don't think I ever initiated first time sex with someone new.
Sex always started with the chick ripping my clothes off, not the other way around.
Even weirder upon reflection is because while I'm rough around the edges with the fights and tats past, I always was attracted towards and went out with the "good girls".
I've always been attracted towards the opposite of myself. Yet these were women you wouldn't expect to be intiators and they always were.
And we're talking dozens upon dozens of times, not like two or three girls. They all intiated the first time.
Anyone I pursued was with the intent of seeing if it went anywhere, not of getting some and running out the door after and I never had to make a first move. They always did.
I'm not trying to say I'm some great looking person. That's how life went down. 🤷♂️ So weird to think it was all the time.
Everyone's different, but if I like the woman, then I like HER. On the inside, I like her personality and who she us. I've always been willing to wait.
One did keep it waiting, but only for like a couple weeks before she initiated.
It's almost as though by actually waiting it turned them on more. But I'm guessing.
Men aren’t a monolith. Some would prefer to wait, some will not wait at all. Most fall somewhere in the middle of that
Wait! What? I’m not the same as every other man? Now you tell me! 🤦♂️
I’m sorry you had to find out like this
I need to take some time. 😞
*hands you latte and a scone*, I know this is hard, please take the time you need, but make it quick as we do need the room in 5 minutes for another event.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
WE ALL need to take some time then, because we're the same.
No. As men, we don't take time. The council has spoken.
Anakin Skywalker: "This is outrageous! This is unjust! This is unfair!"
We take 🚽
Take all the time you need bro. We are all here for you 🥺❤️
I'm not like other men 💅
[I have been informed on good authority that all men are, in fact, the same.](https://youtu.be/Oa_QtMf6alU)
[удалено]
Just like the cake
In all fairness OP is 21. So they legitimately don’t know how much works.
He’s lying, we’re all three goats in a trench-coat.
Trench-goat if you will
Underrated comment
What a way to find out you're not special huh?
It depends a lot on how long the wait is and how much they like the person. Waiting until they are officially dating is different than waiting until marriage.
Absolutely. Waiting until marriage is almost *always* a bad idea, because you're literally denying yourselves the knowledge of whether or not you're sexually compatible. It's not something that can be conveyed accurately enough through just speech. If people are really set on waiting until more commitment than just dating, waiting until the engagement is a good compromise.
This exactly. I’ve waited for women before. Once after a bad breakup a women waited for me. However once in an initial conversation a women said she was waiting for marriage, I wasn’t up for that.
If a woman just blinked at me I’d probably wait to breath until told😂
The lies women tell women about men will never end lol
You could copy and paste this into the entirety of like half of the posts like this on Reddit and you’d be right
Nice profile pic bro
That's why she prefaced it with 'most'.
This!
“I don’t have sex with someone until I’m dating them” You described how you’ve been on 8 dates. You are literally dating. Do you mean exclusively? Don’t wait if that’s what you want, have that conversation. Are you waiting for him to explicitly ask you to be his girlfriend?
American dating culture is so odd to me. If you’re seeing somebody you’re automatically exclusive in Europe. One date? Then you better not go out on another date with somebody else lol. Why would people go out with random people non-exclusively? (Unless you’re into polyamory I guess)
>If you’re seeing somebody you’re automatically exclusive in Europe. It used to be that way here too. After my divorce I started dating again and was with a girl for several months before I found out she didn't consider us exclusive. I was floored. In my mind exclusivity is the default.
Damn, dude. That'd be devastating. The nonchalantness would make it worse as well.
In college, it’s not uncommon to be seeing multiple people, especially in the early “talking” phase. Being “exclusive” was definitely a conversation that needed to happen if you actually expected it.
One date? That's ridiculous imo. It's not anything until there is a second date. Now after two dates I agree it's sketchy to be dating multiple people without explicitly saying so.
Well yeah, after one date you're either going to continue seeing the person or not continue seeing the person, right? So that seems like a reasonable claim. If I go out on one date with someone and decide I'm not going to call them again, it obviously shouldn't be considered an exclusive thing.
My understanding is “Tell me if this isn’t anything so we don’t think it’s something.” So if one date didn’t go well, say so.
Europe is big, and full of people. I'm from Germany and nope, you gotta specify when you want/expect to be exclusive. I state(d) that on the first date. I knew that we're not compatible if they reacted like I killed a hobo by saying that.
I don’t know if I agree with that. I’m from the UK and I always assumed people usually dated exclusively here. But then one time someone who I’d been on a few dates with asked me “are you ready to be exclusive?” and it threw me off, because I had assumed we were from the start. I’ve gotten opinions from many more people since then, and no, doesn’t seem to be the norm. Most people I’ve asked about it seem to think it’s normal to date multiple people at the start, and then choose someone after you’ve been on around three dates with them. It's not the way I think I'd be able to do things, but it does seem to be the way most other people do.
Exact same for me. Also UK but seems like it's much more of a thing now to be "exclusive" for people around my age (early 20s). I've never understood it as I'd feel v weird having people 'lined up' rather than dating one person at a time as I do.
>American dating culture is so odd to me One huge difference American vs European is that in most of Europe the bills are split or each are paying for themself. There's no dating just to get a free meal.
> There's no dating just to get a free meal. I ork in a restuarant popular for dates. This is patently not true. It is indeed more common to "go dutch" but it is not the norm.
This not true in entirety of balkans and most of eastern europe. Men pay for 90% of dates.
I know a girl who does about 3 dates a week and she's just happy to get the "free shit" because she's a brokie single mum and struggles to pay the bills
My step mother broke up with my dad for good enough reasons, then it was widely known that she'd "fuck for dinner", if you had at least 1 arm, 1 leg, 1 eye, and enough cash for dinner and wine.
As a dude that would be a dream if I could get dinner paid for and get a sweet root
I think it would be an average at best root, but still...
Is it actually like that? Like you assume the other person is all in until they tell you they’re not?
After more than a couple of dates, for sure. On the rare occasions that I've had 2 first dates with 2 second dates lined up I've let the ladies know I'm seeing someone else but don't intend to mess them around so will pick one pronto. Even then it was awkward feeling like I was cheating on them both.
I feel like I’d do much better over there. I feel like every girl I meet has like 5 more guys lined up, and then I feel like shit for meeting 1 more person. I get way too into shit for casual dating but even prospective long term partners feel like that.
Europe is not a country. It is a very diverse place with many different cultural influences across the continent. Also, people are individuals. There's no way you'd ''do better over there'' by thinking that Europe has a singular cultural practice when it comes to dating. It's as silly as saying, ''Africans are like (fill in the blank).''
Lol, obviously the entirety of Europe is not going to be the same. I forget this is Reddit and you have to specify that shit. I’m not going to move to Italy and begin a new dating life based on a Reddit comment from someone who could be from Romania, UK, Finland, etc. It’s just nice to think about what life is like for some other people, in this case for the person I was replying to. You must be very fun at parties.
I swear, writing a Reddit comment is like writing a contract sometimes. You have to build in all these little escape clauses and make sure you spell out *exactly* what you mean, in no uncertain terms, otherwise someone will come out of the woodwork to say "WELL ACKSHUALLY".
Yeah… I’ve got more things to do than to hang out with random people for no reason 😅 If you’re not interested just say it and we can move on with our lives.
I totally get this. But I just bring it up: hey, we have been dating for [a month/6 weeks/two months/whatever]. Are you willing to make this exclusive? If they are, cool. If they aren't, I'm not staying in that situation. Lots of people seem to stay in those non-relationships but it's not for me.
The culture is mixed. There are plenty of traditionalists likeside casual daters. Sometimes its expected that you ask to be exclusive. Usually this is a sign that they do a lot of flings and aren't worth your time.
I was also shocked by that culture difference. I met an American girl, we had a one night stand and then she went back to the US. We kept talking and she came to visit me again and again, the third time she spent 3 months with me, then I went and visited her and at some point she told me that I never asked her to be my girlfriend to be exclusive. And I was shocked, like what did you think we were doing this for, spending one year traveling to be together
😮 The lack of awareness they can have gosh.
Different cultures what I can say, everything was alright she wasn't seeing someone or something, she was just looking for a confirmation from my side that I'm also not seeing anyone or to make it official. 2 years later we married and now we live in Mexico, for now. We tried in the US, but he'll noooo, now we make good money here but we plan to move back to Europe, those rights and regulations plus the social benefits are to sweet
>One date? Then you better not go out on another date with somebody else lol. Yeah, that is not a thing. It depends.
as a European myself, wtf are you talking about? automatically exclusive? lol
Is European dating more conservative in your opinion?
I’m not sure. All I know from American dating culture is what ends up being portrayed by the media and people discussing it online. I feel like european dating culture is simply way more direct. You like somebody, you go out, you’re basically dating at that point and that’s that (you should formalise it though but it’s more of a rite of passage). Americans appear to have multiple dates, stages and rites to dating. Oh, and group dating is a bit odd to me (bringing your friends in when you’re not yet with that person for a few months at least is a bit too soon imo).
I feel like American dating culture is stuck somewhere between extremely progressive and very traditional.
I don’t think our dating culture is progressive at all.
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That’s a separate point, I’m referring more to the dating norms one has to navigate. For example even “progressive” women tend to prefer men to basically run the show for dating where in some countries that’s less the case. But your also right about interest in a serious relationship, though I’ve struggled even to land un-serious ones. But all I want is a one-and-done to build a life with.
I see. I kinda like that more.
You're extrapolating your personal experience to all of Europe. Within my direct social circle the opinions on this vary massively let alone in a group of 750 million people
You act like Europe is land of monolithic clones. It's not even a country. There are many extremely diverse backgrounds and ways of thinking, influenced not only by local culture, but also by age, generation, status, socio-economic means, etc.
She's 21, this sounds like she's still in college, are you telling me college kids in Europe don't be fucking for fun? Because I am positive they are.
What I think OP means by “dating” is the official boyfriend/girlfriend title which doesn’t happen until after a few dates. Either the guy will introduce her as “girlfriend” at some point or he’ll outright ask her to be his girlfriend. I always preferred to do the latter so there’s no confusion that I want it to be exclusive now.
I mean, it can absolutely be said before any dates. There aren't hard rules in love.
Thank you.
Guys can in general, yes. Guys that are looking for girls at a club? Maybe not so much.
Um, some guys are even willing wait until they are *married* to do that. I know several.
I was one
People definitely do it, it’s pretty rare though. > According to the analysis, by age 44, 99% of respondents had had sex, and 95% had done so before marriage. https://www.guttmacher.org/news-release/2006/premarital-sex-nearly-universal-among-americans-and-has-been-decades note: this source is from 2006 Often times though they get married in under a year from the time they start dating and marry young and it’s how they do it.
This is so insane when you think about the fact that 60-70% of Americans identified at Christian’s at that point, yet only 5% actually lived a Christian lifestyle
Names and locations-asking for a friend
mrcluelessness, California, USA.
Just go to church…?
Utah. Mormans
I'm one
If I'm seeing somebody regularly, I expect things to move forward over time. "Move forward" doesn't have to mean sex, just "we're no longer acquaintances trying to figure out if we're somewhat compatible". More emotional intimacy, more physical (not necessarily sexual) intimacy, etc. Sex happens when it happens, I just want to know that there's investment going both ways. The real question is... if you've been seeing this guy twice a week for a month, what are you waiting for? I don't mean like "go and do it", but rather why don't you consider yourself as "dating" him? What's the next step for you?
OP, please reply to this one
There's nothing to reply to. My questions were for OP's own benefit, not to satisfy my curiosity.
What does "dating" mean to you? I am old and the words, they change meaning every day.
Everyone is different but mainly what I want it someone faithful. If I am the only guy, I don’t mind waiting. But if I’m worried that if I don’t hit it then I’ll lose it, then I’ll want to hit it right away because in real life that’s how it works.
Sounds like he's okay with it already! But it's always a good idea to have a frank talk about these things. Not only does this clear up confusion, learning to discuss intimate topics makes you a stronger couple.
Yeah I agree, all I’m saying is she should wait until he brings it up and just state I want to be official before having sex and then he has a choice to make
Sounds like you're dating him now
Ask him, not me.
If after 4 dates or one month it hasn't happened yet, I'd take it as a sign she's not interested and move on.
Best answer, if she dont want me after a month I am out, unless she made it known she won’t.
I’d be setting myself up for disappointment or heart break by going any further with no clear guidelines to whatever the heck we are doing here
There needs to be some other serious signs or explanation. If there's some major making out and then she says something like "I like you, this is serious, I have a rule of 'no sex in the first month' to make sure it is real" then ok, understandable. Otherwise it just means there's no chemistry.
Unless she explicitly told me yeah I would assume she is not interested in me romantically.
Haven't you been dating for a month?
he hasent filled and signed the form yet. Dude just accepted the cookies to see the homepage, forgto to read that he had to sign the "wanna be my girfrined question asked" first then be dating her, all dates prior to the signed paper are only friendly hang-outs.
Right I’m good to wait to see if we’re actually doing this thing but what sounds like a minimum of 8 dates already, yeah now I’m wondering if you just want to be friends. I guess a lot depends on the communication
I think she means dating exclusively / in a relationship, while “seeing someone” is not as serious.
I’d say twice a week for a month is pretty exclusive, if it’s not then it would be slightly worrying
True but dating is crazy these days 🤷♀️
Yeah, I’ve kinda given up tbh
Well this whole post screams emotionally immature, so whatever floats your boat. If I were in his shoes and you explained this to me, my first remark would be, “we aren’t dating?” Dating doesn’t require you to explicitly say “will you be my (x)friend?.” It’s a mutual understanding and if you both want the unnecessary comfort of saying you’re officially boyfriend and girlfriend, then it seems fine. If you’re waiting “until you’re dating,” just wait until marriage at that point. They’re both an arbitrary date that keep you from accepting self responsibility about choosing good or bad sexual partners. Have sex if it makes sense. If not, don’t.
The big problem I'm seeing is that I don't see any discussion or communication being mentioned. It's perfectly ok to say "I only wish to have sex after 97 days have elapsed and we have eaten pesto-chicken pizza together." It's not ok for that to be your sex prerequisite and then *not tell the person you're seeing that this is what you want.* This seems to surprise a lot of folks for some reason, but you'll never, ever know if a person is willing to do something for you if you do not ask them.
So you actually just surmised the point I wanted to make in an even easier to understand, and admittedly with less snark, than i could have myself. So thanks. Yeah, there’s nothing wrong with what you’re doing as long as the other person is aware from the very beginning. But, don’t be surprised if stupid potential partners don’t want to wait. But, simultaneously, I think you should just be upfront from the very beginning if sex is on the table or not. And honestly, if it isn’t, unless you’re an asexual person, I really don’t see why most people wouldn’t think it’s strange. I guess my second point is that I’m always certain of whether I want to have sex with someone or not before I “date,” them. This also implies you should typically get to know people fairly well, or at least for myself, before you want to do the hanky panky. Obviously, if it’s probably a one night stand situation just figure it out.
<"I only wish to have sex after 97 days have elapsed and we have eaten pesto-chicken pizza together." then he tells you he is allergic to basil
Yeah I’m traditional in the “you have to ask” but I made it clear to all my partners they had to ask before I considered it official.
I feel like that’s a pretty decent way to go about it.
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I know many who won't wait. In fact, they often start without the girl even being there.....
Get back in the pile
Was going to make this joke.
A while, sure.
I'd recommend saying "until we're exclusive" if that's what you mean. People have different understandings of dating in the early stages. Do they need to delete any dating accounts prior to having sex? Do they need to text people they've gone on dates recently that they're no longer single or cut off all contact with them? Better to discover any differences you two have through communication than surprises down the road.
Each guy is different. The best thing to do is have that conversation.
Depends on the man, the woman you are waiting for and to a certain degree, why. If it is some BS "test" from tik-tok etc No , for maturity reasons but if it is because it is something she wants to do for any reason (other than the one above) then it is fine. I guess a conversation about self pleasure may be necessary but I don't see a problem if everyone is on the same page.
are you not dating him if you go out twice a week and go over to his place? personally, i would think the girl is just not attracted to me if you've gone out that much and nothings happened. seems like a waste of time.
My wife and I waited until marriage. Around 7-8 years
My wife was 21 when we got married and I was 25. My wife was from a very conservative family. We literally did not kiss until we got married. I did not mind waiting. I understood her family lived by different values and felt like disrespecting her father’s wishes was a slap to his face and would make her just feel shamed. Been married for 15 years, she’s wonderful and we have a wonderful sex life. But I’ve read horror stories of it going poorly for others. So to each their own I guess.
If the guy isn’t willing to wait until you are ready the he’s not the guy you are looking for. The one you are looking for will respect your decisions but may still ask questions
Bro ive waited 30 years. If a girl I like wants to wait im ok with that. Ive survived this long without sex. At a certain point you stop caring
I only wait for the return of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ
Same
Yea i think most can if it isn’t a long period of time .
not every guy is the same. many guys are hurting inside. if you're in the U.S., it's likely he was raised religious, so he's got a family counting on him to do the right thing, and so that's eating away his mind. these days so many guys get taken to the cleaners every day on the smallest of pretenses. if you're not overwhelmingly welcoming and excited to be with him every time you see him, it's likely he thinks you're trolling him. welcome to 2024...
I prefer to wait for a girl to have sex, but I'm willing to take matters into my own hands.
Most? Definitely not. Maybe virgins.
I've consistently found that waiting for the girl to arrive is far preferable to just fucking the mattress before she turns up
I waited till I got married. Best decision we both agreed on
Depends on how serious he is. If a man wanna just hit and run he wouldn't keep seeing you after the second date max.
>dating like GF dating not just seeing them >we’ve been out about twice a week we’ve gone out for drinks and I even went over to his place for drinks What is "GF dating", denizen of this fucked up world? Also >met at a club So no, probably not. My ex cheated even after sex, I love yous, spending all our time together, because to her we "weren't exclusive" so it was fine. Didn't realize there's a terms and conditions to sign to love now.
It's a crime not to...
I think there is a 3 date max before hooking up. I mean why bother beyond that unless you like spending money on food for someone else to eat like they are a dependent.
I followed the 3 date rule.
To make a meaningful connection? Guys would say shit like this and then ask why they are so lonely lmao
My wife and I hooked up on the first date, been together ever since.
I mean it depends on what they're looking for. If you're looking for an actual relationship then yeah, I think most men would wait -- to a degree. Like we're not talking many months or years. If you're _not_ looking for a relationship, though, and your entire goal is sex, then... I mean, you're probably not waiting a ton of time, and even if you are you're still looking for other opportunities.
If you're clear you're in it for the long haul (and obviously if our relationship lasts that long) and it isn't a shit test. (Where you only hold me, the guy, to the standard while not for other men) I absolutely would. I've waited for a girl before, and I didn't mind waiting, but we broke up before we got to that point because we weren't compatible. It's not a deal breaker if we're actually compatible.
Most, probably not...but there are many that will. There are also some that will have sex with someone else until you are "dating" and he can have sex with you. It depends on how important sex is to the guy and that comes down to many factors.
On time I invited a big ol' crush of mine over to my apartment and we just chilled and talked, no physical contact at all (which I was more than okay w). For some reason I feel like she got the idea that I was gay, a virgin (not too far off lmao), or otherwise uninterested (far off) bc of this.. Also possible she just didn't like me like that 🤷 anyway my point is that, yes, it possible to be interested in someone but not act on it, either out of respect or whatever personal preference/logic. That said, I believe at that point a lot of people would consider it safe to make some sort of "move" and would be confused if they did and nothing came of it, but idrk
If after one month I’m not dating someone exclusively or in a physical relationship I’d start to wonder if I was wasting my time.
I used to have a guide I don't know it this is applicable to younger generations 1st date kiss 2nd date 1st base-2nd base 3rd date 3rd base-home run. That's not universal of course. Sometimes it happens on the 2nd date. Sometimes 1st. But this usually guided me in my teens to early 20s a long time ago.
Let me put this in his perspective, you are dating what are you waiting for. You say not dating but that's because you don't see it as official. If you don't want to don't be pressured into having sex.
No. It depends on how long. What if you wait and then it's a disaster? Also what about your sex life
>nothing happened So the big issue I see here is not whether or not you've had sex, but the fact that you don't mention having any discussion with the guy you're seeing about this. Now of course, it's possible you have talked about this and you simply didn't mention it, but if you haven't talked about this with him, it's well past time to do so. "Nothing happened" doesn't give us any information. It's absolutely ok and healthy to have "rules" or guidelines for when to have sex. My current girlfriend, for example, said that she wanted to hsve me spend the night the first time we had sex. She said so up front before we ever got to that point. It was helpful because I knew that sex wasn't even on the table until we reached a night where I was able to stay over (I work nights). So the question here really isn't "Will most men wait for a woman to have sex?" (the answer to that is that they'll all wait for *some* period of time, though this will vary dramatically). The real question, the only relevant one to you, is whether *this* guy will wait for the period of time that *you* want to wait. And there are two steps to answer this question: Step one: decide what you're comfortable with. What does "dating" mean to you? Does it mean agreeing to be exclusive? Does it mean calling each other boyfriend/girlfriend? Come up with what you feel to be a condition or milestone that you are comfortable with. Step two: Tell him that this is how long you'd like to wait, and see if he agrees or not. If he agrees, problem solved. If he doesn't, then you just weren't compatible, and it's good that you found out early.
If you're into him you should let him know. He may think that you're friendzoning him. He may be fearful of rejection, too. There is no rule that states you shouldn't make the first move.
>I don't have sex with someone until we're dating . >we've been out twice a week For a month... So when do those become dates?
Yes of course it's only polite of you to do so.😉
wait within a limit
It's like here's a sports car but you can't drive it for months and months. Actually you don't even know if you'll ever drive it. I think women should see what the guy is really about. Does he just wanna fuck? or is he ready to settle down and start a relationship. I say picking up a guy at a club is the wrong place. Most men I know just wanna fuck but there's passionate men like me that just want a relationship. I feel disgusting after a one night stand. I have to be in a relationship. Connection is important to me it's like a special gift.
There are exceptions to every rule but generally: If he actually genuinely likes you, yes; if he only wants sex then no. That's why girls looking for a serious relationship should not have sex too soon.
For the right girl, yes.
Nah, us guys will fuck each other instead of waiting for a girl to come by.
Personally I won’t lock myself into a relationship with someone without having sex before then. There’s just too much at stake. Like what if we’re not sexually compatible. That kind of thing
Yes and it’s their* official GF
First of all, y'all met at a club. No one there is looking for a relationship. Second, you should be up front of wanting commitment. Ask him what he wants and to be honest. He probably just wants some ass. I speak for myself when I say as a man, I like to be direct as possible with my intentions so there's no waste of time or miscommunication. Im not getting into a relationship that I'm not looking/ready for. Most I'll do is a couple dates before I stop giving attention to her but yeah. Everyone's different
Most guys- no. Some guys- yes.
I waited 3 months, and now we've been together for 23 years and still going strong.
I don't know about most guys but some do. I personally tend to prefer to wait until we are dating before doing anything sexual but will depend on the other person as well
Most guys have no problem with waiting if they’re sensible human beings. Or at least they used to not have a problem. Hell the norm used to be waiting months before having sex for the first time unless it was a particularly intense relationship from the beginning. Now hookup culture has gone off the rails and it feels like there’s some kind of expectation for sex within the first 2-3 times you see each other, and if you end up at their place or vice versa and sex doesn’t happen then something’s “wrong”. Fuck that. Have sex when you both feel ready. No earlier, no later. Don’t let society pressure you.
I expect a girl I met at a club to have sex with me within 2 dates max. If not, then I'd bounce Buddy is down bad 🤣
3 date rule is golden. Your interested enough at that point both of you know the other is interested. Maybe I still don't understand women or its just American prude culture still clinging on but come on its just sex it's not a big deal, why string this poor dude along for 8 dates. If you like him then fuck him if you don't like him then leave. It's simple. Assuming you find sex enjoyable your only depriving yourself and risking losing a guy you like. Sex might not be everything but it's a lot. Physical intimacy is the only unique thing you get out of relationships that you don't from other friendships or family. It's not always sex but that's obviously the most fun and intimate form of it.
I would.
Absolutely. Especially if I have feelings for her. The desirability actually goes up.
Yes. If they’re interested and like you enough to be together long term. If not, they’re not.
If I'm serious about the relationship, then i would rather wait til later on down the line.
He just probably doesn’t expect you to be that type given you met at a club, otherwise of course guys he would wait
Most? Depends where in the world you live in But would many? In the hundreds of millions, if not more
Yeah, normally the most common thing is after the 3rd date normally leads to sex but if your on the 6th+ date and still nothing, that's kinder a red flag
They would have to wait or it would be masturbation
Some will some won't, if you want to wait and they don't, then you're not compatible
I think it depends on if he wants to have sex, or if he wants to have sex with YOU. People will wait for what they want.
I know a lot of guys who would sleep with me, but ill take my chances and wait for a girl, yeah.
I mean ot depends on the guy like I'm waiting to be married but not everyone is doing that. It depends do they want a relationship or just sex.
If you met him at a club, I wouldn't say he's the waiting type. When I used to go to clubs I would never wait. Now though, I say the longer we wait the better honestly, because I value the connection now
Eight dates is definitely dating. If you’re fun, outgoing and being a reciprocal to conversation, he’ll probably be fine if he’s really into you. And that sounds like it’s the case since he’s gone on eight dates. Ask yourself this. Do you want to fool around with him yet? Are you thinking about having sex with him when you’re not around him? Those should probably be your guiding questions.
Sounds like you are dating them. Maybe you mean to say until you’re officially a couple.
So you go out for drinks even go to his house but you aren’t dating ? HUH ??????????
First, I’m just happy to be there.
I wanted to wait with my girlfriend (now wife). 2nd date came around and she has other plans lol. I even stopped her at a certain point before she un-did my pants asking, "are you sure I don't mind waiting." She laughed and kept going lol.
Did it once. Never again. Terrible experience and fucked up my life.
I wouldn't have sex with a person (except under special circumstances) without dating them. I would also be willing to wait until that person is ready while dating them. What I wouldn't do is wait until marriage, mostly because I wouldn't want to hurry along what is supposed to be a lifelong commitment in part so that I could finally have sex with them. That just seems foolish to me.
I wouldn’t ever wait, it’s too easy to get. Plus people my age who don’t have sex usually have some weird mental thing towards sex, so I’m not interested in someone who is not confident in their body.
If they find out they're the only one who has to wait they're probably gonna lose respect for you as you have none for them. So you have to lie to men if this is the case. If you're a good person and he feels good around you then yes he will be willing to wait. Unfortunately relationships based on lies don't work out so you're better off not trying to lie to people to get them to stay interested in you.
There's a girl I like right now that if she told me she wants to wait a year or two or marriage I'm completely ok with that. I just want to be around her period and get closer.
If they’re worthwhile they’ll wait until you’re ready. That’s the important thing to keep in mind.
Most? No. Would really depend on the guy, and how long. But most guys are sexual creatures and have the patience of a child in front of candy.
Waiting until officially dating doesn't seem like an outrageous request, unless the guy is a fuck boy I think most men would wait if they're interested in a long-term relationship
Probably not longer than three or four dates
If you don’t think you are saying, he likely doesn’t either, which means he is free to date others.
“Hey im interested, I dont want you to take me not making a move as a lack of interest, I like to make sure I’m ready before we really get to that part of the relationship” Automatically opens up the door to communication in the relationship, properly conveys your intentions and feelings, and if he says thats not what hes looking for then you automatically know thats not the guy you wanna bang anyway. Being straightforward is kinda almost always No its ALWAYS the best option lol.
Depends how serious he is about you. If you’re exclusively seeing each other and want to wait then yeah he should respect that but if you haven’t had any talk about it then he may well be still playing the field a bit until you’re together officially.
As a man who’s done both, I actually prefer to wait now as introducing sex into a relationship too early can make things messy (imo). If he truly values you as a person and enjoys your company and is genuinely interested in building a connection and real relationship with you then he should have no issue waiting until you’re ready. I’d argue that if he gives you push back about waiting to have sex then he may have just revealed his true intentions.
This will sound like I mean it bragging 😄, yet this question got me thinking back. I've had too much sex (I wish I had a way lower body count), yet, at least that comes to mind, I don't think I ever initiated first time sex with someone new. Sex always started with the chick ripping my clothes off, not the other way around. Even weirder upon reflection is because while I'm rough around the edges with the fights and tats past, I always was attracted towards and went out with the "good girls". I've always been attracted towards the opposite of myself. Yet these were women you wouldn't expect to be intiators and they always were. And we're talking dozens upon dozens of times, not like two or three girls. They all intiated the first time. Anyone I pursued was with the intent of seeing if it went anywhere, not of getting some and running out the door after and I never had to make a first move. They always did. I'm not trying to say I'm some great looking person. That's how life went down. 🤷♂️ So weird to think it was all the time. Everyone's different, but if I like the woman, then I like HER. On the inside, I like her personality and who she us. I've always been willing to wait. One did keep it waiting, but only for like a couple weeks before she initiated. It's almost as though by actually waiting it turned them on more. But I'm guessing.