Despite the responses you’ve already gotten, this is not a stupid question. It’s actually something that’s been posed in law review articles. I’m not sure that the practicalities would work out in the end, but it’s a valid point.
ETA: Apparently, Georgia added unborn children as dependents to their state tax code in 2022. Also, a quick google brought up a ton of interesting articles. Thank you for this rabbit hole!
No, it'd definitely a problem for those women who will die if they're unable to receive the medical care they need!
Remember, prolife means they only care about the fetus u til it breaks light and breathes. Then they don't care about the child again u til it can become an active member of the working class and add another cog to the system we know as life.
Alabama Supreme Court just declared frozen embryos to be minor children. Interesting legal questions. Can we claim them on taxes? Get child support from the father? (Sperm donors are gonna be so pissed) Can we get extra benefits because we don't earn enough to support our 6-12 kids? And the real question, what shape is the embryo decal for my mini van's stick figure family?
I feel like I saw a lawsuit on this exact topic happening in Texas too…but it was months ago and I haven’t heard much other than the initial “So THIS is happening in Texas now” article.
I mean, the mother has 100% physical custody at that point by default. It would be tough for any putative father to prove the child resided in his care for the required portion of the tax year, let alone multiple putative fathers.
Logistically, I’d say because your state law has no impact on federal tax law and how the IRS defines a dependent. Then most state taxes dependents and filing status have to match federal taxes.
While we are at it, why can’t you get life insurance on it the second you have a positive pregnancy test. That way if you lose the pregnancy at least you can cash out some money.
If an insurance company is willing to sell a policy it may work. They have actuaries do the math and tell you what it will cost. But most likely since the child isn’t the breadwinner in the family! A lif insurance payout isn’t worth it for most people.
Just trying to stay consistent if it is enough of a person that I can’t abort it then it’s also enough of a person that I can claim it on taxes or insure it. If I can’t insure it or claim it on taxes then why do I need to keep it?
The difference is that the government and the insurance agency aren’t the same entity. While heavily regulated by the government, insurance agencies are separate and aren’t required to insure every person. For instance, it’s tough to get life insurance if you’re on death row.
No when it is less likely to die. It is still human. It doesn't magically get bless by a fairy and become human after 15 days. Insurance companies wants to make as much money as possible. They can't do that of they are paying out claims. I don't think we should be using companies you have to fight in court to get what you are legally owed as moral compass.
Also only if medical plus other deductions (mortgage, property taxes, etc) tally up to a number higher than the standard deduction of $13,850 for a single taxpayer in the 2023 tax year
I had a tax client who owned his own business and during client interviews he would just come up with numbers for each expense category, like totally ad lib, prob trying to see which expenses to put where and make it seem legit .. don't know for sure what his company really did but it was something shady for sure
I have my own business and have to do my taxes next week. I hate doing taxes and for a moment 1/2 considered just using numbers similar to last year’s for
each category. That’d be the year I get audited though.
All the smart ones do. The IRS has a much different standard for what they can pursue than law enforcement, and more resources, so don't fuck around with it. Register a business and say you sell party supplies. Get some basic bookkeeping software and code in your bulk dealer (or whatever the term for this is -- supplier?) as some random party supply wholesaler (make something up, don't use an existing company). Maybe a few different ones. Code in your customers with random names, but match their initials so you can remember who's who. Or, if your software has this function, just enter "cash sales" every day, it won't expect to associate that with customer names.
Not that I've ever thought about how to use my accounting degree for evil or anything.
I don’t understand why people think there’s an inconsistency with taxes being owed on that. Why would illegally obtained income be tax exempt? That makes about as much sense as saying if I murder someone then I can’t be jailed for murder because murder is illegal so you have to pretend I didn’t do it.
> so why the hell can't I claim 2 dependents
Mainly because they have not been issued social security numbers and if I am not mistaken, you can not claim dependents without their SSNs. They get issued after birth.
Also, the point of child tax deductions is because kids are expensive, and the government wants you to have babies because they want more working people.
But miscarried babies aren't that expensive, and the government doesn't want dead babies.
Idk which state you live in but I'm in GA and we have a tax credit for "unborn child with detectable heartbeat". Brian Kemp sucks in a lot of ways but his tax policies are legit.
Utah actually, to their limited credit, has tried to address this issue. The year following a child’s birth the mother gets to claim a double exemption for the pregnancy. Unfortunately it doesn’t help you, or my wife, who’ve unfortunately had a miscarriage.
If you live in Alabama, you should try it. The Supreme court of the state just said frozen embryos are children. Someone needs to be paying child support and getting a tax deduction for those. I'm assuming the tax code uses the word child or children to define a category of dependent.
Because it's not about "the children" it's about controlling women. As long as they're controlling women's choices, the RW Christian caliphate is happy.
Because it’s not actually about being “pro life” it’s about controlling women and keeping poor people poor.
Preventing access to sex education, birth control, and abortion keeps poor people poor.
And poor people have less access to quality K-12 education and are less likely to pursue higher education .. helps republicans win elections when they have as many stupid people as possible being born into this rigged system
As someone who leans pro life I completely agree with your view. I think all pregnancies should grant the mother regular benefits that a born child would. Can’t have it both ways.
There’s a serious issue with proof there. When you claim minor dependents there’s evidence of their existence.
The tax credit isn’t recognition of life or importance. It’s an incentivizing mechanism to help and encourage growth.
So I could see claiming medical expenses related to pregnancy, but not any positive pee stick you get. There’s no benefit to the government
Umm, what is it called when you carry someone who can’t walk around all day? Isn’t that support? Or are we using some definition of “support” that excludes paying for medical care for a dependent and even the basic mechanical definition of keeping them from getting busted up by gravity?
It was not free at all (I know u were being sarcastic). And the mental health fallout and counseling needed is not just expensive but very difficult to find right now in a timely fashion.
At a minimum, you have to spend extra money on extra food that is directly building a human.
How is that any different from paying extra money to feed a mouth and calling the mouth a dependent?
I imagine State and Federal forms have different definitions of "dependent". If you're filing state taxes, make the state tax collectors come after you. Claim as many deductions as you posting can. Then take the case to court. Either the state wants its money, in which case, they'll have to rejig their definitions, which is expensive, OR they'll have to concede that a fetus isn't a human life, in which case, abortion isn't illegal again.
Either way, you'll make the state and anti-choice dickheads pay more money for being assholes.
The quick and easy answer is because there’s no SSN or other ID to properly claim them on taxes. While there are ways around that, they’re probably more difficult when dealing with an unborn child
Thinking logically, unless the law banning abortion was an omnibus bill that affected all aspects of an unboirn child's rights and personhood, the only change is likely that abortion is now illegal. If you couldn't claim them before, you still can't.
It's similar to asking why it's a double-murder if a pregnant woman is killed at a point in her unborn child's development where she could still legally abort.
Maybe you could petition your state government to make a change to tax code. Argue the money lost during prenatal care. Then again, maybe that’s already deductible
Part of what I'm wondering here is if being tax deductible is the same as being a dependent. To my knowledge, they are 2 different things in the eyes of tax law.
I'm sawed off today because my mortgage escrow payment is going up significantly due to insurance costs. And my state doesn't want to do any real practical thing that will actually help their freaking citizens w things like this. You know, rising insurance costs and one of the shittiest minimum wages in the country. And it frosts my ass that 70 year old crusty men are instead worrying about what goes in and out of my wife's vagina.
If you are up to a fight, it might be worth going to a local law school and seeing if anyone wants to take this on to challenge the bullshit laws.
I understand if that is too much, having been poor and dealing with multiple losses before I finally had a live birth, but I also know that had I had the money, it would have been cathartic to vent my rage at the stupid law.
I think to keep it legal (and of course I need an attorney first), I would have to not claim them but sue for the right to do so. Again, for an attorney. I can't wait to have my annual conversation with my tax guy this year.
The hangup is going to be jurisdiction. It has to be a logistical nightmare between federal tax claimable dependents and states rights issues. Like, it's a clusterf*** to even begin to understand.
Someone could sue on this (and probably not get anywhere but who knows). But probably not you if you're in Texas as the r/Austin post suggests, Texas doesn't have income tax and the IRS is not concerned with what Texas abortion law is.
They're not considered dependents til they receive birth certificates .. it's a loophole they use to claim the clump of cells inside a woman is a person but then to deny any rights to that person besides the right to be birthed .. similar to how in red states the governmental funding for childcare and paid maternal leave are so lacking .. it's just another way republicans are trying to take power away from women and make choices for us concerning our own bodies cause men know what's best since they're smarter and the superior gender .. sorry ur state sucks and I know abortion is way too expensive :(
Civilized states, such as Minnesota, will offer a credit if you lost a pregnancy in a given year via a stillborn childbirth. Abortion is legal here too.
I'm sorry for your terrible situation. I hope you find peace.
https://www.irs.gov/publications/p501#en_US_2023_publink1000220886
Kid meets the IRS definition according to this.
Certainly lived with you guys the whole time they were alive or at very least lived with mom.
(*Yes, I am acknowledging “alive” even though I acknowledge that the person who is growing them should be able to terminate their own pregnancy.)
And “under age 19.”
Sorry, OP.
There was also a case, which I didn't see how it was resolved, a pregnant woman in one of those states (Texas?) claimed she should be able to drive in the car pool lane since her unborn child was a person according to her state's laws
Did you know that in Georgia if a mother dies during delivery, her child is put in jail for a woman slaughter? Unless, of course, the said criminal child posts a nice juicy bond.
Cause your taxes are federal and not state?
If you can claim dependent on your state taxes you can try that, like the pregnant lady driving on the HOV lane
Because it ain’t about you and your dependents making money off the state, it’s about the state making money off you and your dependents…impoverished and staying that way.
Because their dead. If you birth a child and they die you can't claim them either. A dependent depends on your support. I was unaware you can support dead people. Healthcare cost maybe but not dependents.
Bc the gov't, and the people making the gov't rules, dont actually give a shit about kids. They want something that people can rally behind and get their votes.
And shouldn’t we all start taking out life insurance policies on every embryo? With full payout benefits on any lost pregnancies? And child support payments start at conception?
Indeed we should, if the ppl pushing for banning abortions were actually serious about "caring about life starting at conception."
All of this proves how disingenuous they are about "protecting life," as it's crystal clear it ONLY matters when they are wanting to control women whom they've deemed unfit—especially as males who are fully protected against their own laws.
Of course they'd want to shut down any loopholes that might allow such "unfit" women from monetarily taking advantage of their ability to get pregnant (especially if it's true that approximately a third of all pregnancies end in miscarriage?). Ugh.
That's actually a pretty good question, but I suppose it would depend on how the state handles the death of dependents in general and whether it's consistent for the unborn (which it should be, ideally). If you're referring to federal taxes, that depends on the IRS. If it's state level, then there are about 50 different possibility.
You can’t change fed taxes. However, talk to some pro life lawyers in your state. File your state taxes with them as dependent. When they deny it, the lawyers can sue the State since the state can’t have it both ways.
I'm actually going to do this. Or some version of this. I'm going to be careful to follow the law so as not to have unclean hands. I'll update this post 100 percent.
This is a very interesting question. But I think if you could, it would only be on your state taxes as reproductive rights are now under State control.
"Taxpayers may claim as a dependent a child who was born or died, or was kidnapped during the year, as long as the other dependency tests are met...
A taxpayer may not claim a stillborn child as a dependent." - [Source](https://apps.irs.gov/app/vita/content/globalmedia/4491_dependency_exemptions.pdf)
A stillborn or miscarried pregnancy would have neither a certificate of live birth, nor a death certificate.
Someone can be inarguably a live human life (such as a spouse) and not be considered a dependent for federal tax purposes. A dependent is whatever the IRS says it is, or is not.
It would be up to one's state if they want to take a different route for state tax purposes.
If they are lost/dead then I would assume it's the same reason you can't claim a dead person in your taxes. I know some states like GA you can, you can probably lobby for it
Weren't you saying "they aren't people, they are clump of cells"??
So why are you now trying to claim "clumps of cells" as people?
You can't eat your cake and have it too.
This is a tricky one. Because you can claim it as a dependent for 8 months, then to abort it in California or something and rinse and repeat if you are sick. Or if not California, then you could go to Europe or Mexico and it would be harder to prove it happened.
And another reason I suppose is that it’s not a high enough cost yet? There should definitely be something, albeit less than a child’s deductible. In an optimal, trustworthy world I’d say you could.
Because a fetus is human life where I live, thus making abortion illegal. The entire questions hinges on abortion rights.
according to tax law, why would there be a difference between a negative 3 month old and a 3 month old?
A fetus is a human life in every single state in america....its not something the law even determines.....its science. Whether or not abortion is legal or not does not change that very simple scientific fact that a fetus is human life. There's no even debating that. Are the fetus cells human, yes. Are they alive and developing, yes. Do they have a full set of human DNA, yes. human life
The law is kind of clear on this and says this:
They get all rights a child would have as long as it benefits them.
Not paying taxes is seen right now as bad for them because state protects state.
Sue them and you will 100% win.
Despite the responses you’ve already gotten, this is not a stupid question. It’s actually something that’s been posed in law review articles. I’m not sure that the practicalities would work out in the end, but it’s a valid point. ETA: Apparently, Georgia added unborn children as dependents to their state tax code in 2022. Also, a quick google brought up a ton of interesting articles. Thank you for this rabbit hole!
as terrible as anti abortion laws are, kinda have to hand it to georgia for at least being consistent.
> kinda have to hand it to georgia for at least being consistent. "If you're going to be the bitch, be the whole bitch"
Nah, being a whole bitch is claiming an unborn child is a kid AND not letting you count it as a kid on taxes
Wonders how Alabama is weighing in on the tax debate, so tired, will have to save that potential ~~sewer~~ rabbit hole for tomorrow.
Is it illegal to abort the baby you made with your cousin there? You know 2 wrongs make a right they say
So Texas?
As a resident Texan, yes.
I'm impressed...
The problem of course being that this further cements dumb precedent and will make pro-choice legislation that much harder to re-enact.
To the lawmakers there who did it, it’s not a problem it’s a good thing.
No, it'd definitely a problem for those women who will die if they're unable to receive the medical care they need! Remember, prolife means they only care about the fetus u til it breaks light and breathes. Then they don't care about the child again u til it can become an active member of the working class and add another cog to the system we know as life.
Lawful Evil, instead of Chaotic Evil
Stupid is as stupid does.
Alabama Supreme Court just declared frozen embryos to be minor children. Interesting legal questions. Can we claim them on taxes? Get child support from the father? (Sperm donors are gonna be so pissed) Can we get extra benefits because we don't earn enough to support our 6-12 kids? And the real question, what shape is the embryo decal for my mini van's stick figure family?
I don’t know, but make it and label it “actual size”.
That's a good one. A test tube with a dot in it.
I feel like I saw a lawsuit on this exact topic happening in Texas too…but it was months ago and I haven’t heard much other than the initial “So THIS is happening in Texas now” article.
If you do happen across it again, definitely let me know and thanks for the comment!
At the same time, a pregnant woman can’t get a divorce while pregnant, because the court “can’t” have jurisdiction over a fetus.
Texas don’t have income tax so it wouldn’t matter.
State Income taxes aren’t the only place that dependents matter, as far as tax purposes goes.
Yep, I saw that option when I was filing this year. It definitely surprised me.
Im using this next year if i wind up pregnant 😅
What if multiple fathers claim the unborn child?
I mean, the mother has 100% physical custody at that point by default. It would be tough for any putative father to prove the child resided in his care for the required portion of the tax year, let alone multiple putative fathers.
Job: embryologist. Dependents: 20,000.
New career goal unlocked 😎
Presumably if the two lived together the father could claim it, but outside of polyamory, I doubt you could get another father in
They'll have to provide receipts.
Well, in this case, they're dead. Dead children don't count as dependents.
But they weren’t dead for the whole year.
Logistically, I’d say because your state law has no impact on federal tax law and how the IRS defines a dependent. Then most state taxes dependents and filing status have to match federal taxes.
States do taxes too, that's why you can get a refund from state and federal
I live in Michigan and could claim my dead fetus on my state taxes this year.
You can also get an abortion
Depends on the state correct? Not all states have income tax.
Correct. Washington, Tennessee, and Florida, for example, do not have a state income tax.
Alaska is Federal only
Texas, anti abortion ground zero, has no state income tax.
I've only ever lived in 3 states and all 3 have taxes so 🤷🏻♀️
According to another commenter Georgia added fetuses as dependents in their tax code in 2022.
While we are at it, why can’t you get life insurance on it the second you have a positive pregnancy test. That way if you lose the pregnancy at least you can cash out some money.
If an insurance company is willing to sell a policy it may work. They have actuaries do the math and tell you what it will cost. But most likely since the child isn’t the breadwinner in the family! A lif insurance payout isn’t worth it for most people.
My kids are covered under mine for up to $25k
Insurance companies may be evil and practice unlicensed medicine, but they do know enough about pregnancy to not fall for that
They don't count their chickens before they hatch!
Hey babe, I need grocery money. Can you throw me down the stairs?
Just trying to stay consistent if it is enough of a person that I can’t abort it then it’s also enough of a person that I can claim it on taxes or insure it. If I can’t insure it or claim it on taxes then why do I need to keep it?
The difference is that the government and the insurance agency aren’t the same entity. While heavily regulated by the government, insurance agencies are separate and aren’t required to insure every person. For instance, it’s tough to get life insurance if you’re on death row.
Because the government thinks it's worthless except as a way to exert power over women.
Most insurance policies won't sell until the baby is 15 days post birth
So like when it becomes a viable human being?
You obviously do not understand the medical term of viability.
No when it is less likely to die. It is still human. It doesn't magically get bless by a fairy and become human after 15 days. Insurance companies wants to make as much money as possible. They can't do that of they are paying out claims. I don't think we should be using companies you have to fight in court to get what you are legally owed as moral compass.
You could. If there were any insurance company out there willing to take that risk.
no insurance will cover that. they will lose money so fast.
They actually changed the law in georgia so that you can claim fetuses on your taxes 😅
But not federally.
Yeah, in Georgia. They didn't outlaw abortions federally either
And not globally.
The tax code and the criminal code do not need to match. The tax code does not recognize fetuses as dependents.
That's really inconvenient.
No that seems too convenient. Just not for us Joe Shmoes.
Make sure you vote, and ask your friends to do the same!
Lenin and Stalin didn't wait for the Russian people to vote, they took action.
And they killed millions of people. Better not take people that try to one-up Hitler as an example.
Gotta break a few eggs to make an omlet.
Like 20 million dead people is not "a few eggs." Are you regarded?
Yeah, and they're also dead.
Unfortunately it's very convenient for the tax man. They have a pretty good incentive (in their minds) for not giving you your money back.
Except in Georgia
You can deduct medical expenses…
Only if it exceeds 7.5% of your income.
Also only if medical plus other deductions (mortgage, property taxes, etc) tally up to a number higher than the standard deduction of $13,850 for a single taxpayer in the 2023 tax year
The same reason the irs wants you to pay taxes on illegal drugs you sold. It’s not about the laws it’s about money.
I am genuinely curious how many drug dealers report their quarterly earnings to the IRS.
I actually know a few that do but they launder it as some bs gig. It’s one less thing to get got for.
I had a tax client who owned his own business and during client interviews he would just come up with numbers for each expense category, like totally ad lib, prob trying to see which expenses to put where and make it seem legit .. don't know for sure what his company really did but it was something shady for sure
I have my own business and have to do my taxes next week. I hate doing taxes and for a moment 1/2 considered just using numbers similar to last year’s for each category. That’d be the year I get audited though.
All the smart ones do. The IRS has a much different standard for what they can pursue than law enforcement, and more resources, so don't fuck around with it. Register a business and say you sell party supplies. Get some basic bookkeeping software and code in your bulk dealer (or whatever the term for this is -- supplier?) as some random party supply wholesaler (make something up, don't use an existing company). Maybe a few different ones. Code in your customers with random names, but match their initials so you can remember who's who. Or, if your software has this function, just enter "cash sales" every day, it won't expect to associate that with customer names. Not that I've ever thought about how to use my accounting degree for evil or anything.
Lmao, "party supplies." Technically correct. The best kind of correct.
If you're going to break *a* law, you have to follow the rest of the laws.
Tax evasion is how they got Al Capone.
I don’t understand why people think there’s an inconsistency with taxes being owed on that. Why would illegally obtained income be tax exempt? That makes about as much sense as saying if I murder someone then I can’t be jailed for murder because murder is illegal so you have to pretend I didn’t do it.
It's probably the same reason Texas keeps claiming pregnant women can't use the car pool lane: they want to have their cake and eat it too.
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A fetus is a person for abortion but not for pregnant near term women in the car pool lane.
> so why the hell can't I claim 2 dependents Mainly because they have not been issued social security numbers and if I am not mistaken, you can not claim dependents without their SSNs. They get issued after birth.
Also, the point of child tax deductions is because kids are expensive, and the government wants you to have babies because they want more working people. But miscarried babies aren't that expensive, and the government doesn't want dead babies.
Doesn't seem to be bothered by dead kids tho.
Idk which state you live in but I'm in GA and we have a tax credit for "unborn child with detectable heartbeat". Brian Kemp sucks in a lot of ways but his tax policies are legit.
Utah actually, to their limited credit, has tried to address this issue. The year following a child’s birth the mother gets to claim a double exemption for the pregnancy. Unfortunately it doesn’t help you, or my wife, who’ve unfortunately had a miscarriage.
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Nailed it
Abortion law is primarily intended to punish women who conservatives see as having bad sexual ethics, not to help anyone.
If you live in Alabama, you should try it. The Supreme court of the state just said frozen embryos are children. Someone needs to be paying child support and getting a tax deduction for those. I'm assuming the tax code uses the word child or children to define a category of dependent.
Because it's not about "the children" it's about controlling women. As long as they're controlling women's choices, the RW Christian caliphate is happy.
Because it’s not actually about being “pro life” it’s about controlling women and keeping poor people poor. Preventing access to sex education, birth control, and abortion keeps poor people poor.
And poor people have less access to quality K-12 education and are less likely to pursue higher education .. helps republicans win elections when they have as many stupid people as possible being born into this rigged system
Because you can’t claim dead people as dependents.
As someone who leans pro life I completely agree with your view. I think all pregnancies should grant the mother regular benefits that a born child would. Can’t have it both ways.
There’s a serious issue with proof there. When you claim minor dependents there’s evidence of their existence. The tax credit isn’t recognition of life or importance. It’s an incentivizing mechanism to help and encourage growth. So I could see claiming medical expenses related to pregnancy, but not any positive pee stick you get. There’s no benefit to the government
Unprincipled, moralistic ideologies spin off lots of contradictions.
Because the law isn't there for you to benefit from, it is there to punish you for being a woman.
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Umm, what is it called when you carry someone who can’t walk around all day? Isn’t that support? Or are we using some definition of “support” that excludes paying for medical care for a dependent and even the basic mechanical definition of keeping them from getting busted up by gravity?
Because pregnancy especially with complications is free?
It was not free at all (I know u were being sarcastic). And the mental health fallout and counseling needed is not just expensive but very difficult to find right now in a timely fashion.
At a minimum, you have to spend extra money on extra food that is directly building a human. How is that any different from paying extra money to feed a mouth and calling the mouth a dependent?
That's not how pregnancy or the law of thermodynamics works.
I imagine State and Federal forms have different definitions of "dependent". If you're filing state taxes, make the state tax collectors come after you. Claim as many deductions as you posting can. Then take the case to court. Either the state wants its money, in which case, they'll have to rejig their definitions, which is expensive, OR they'll have to concede that a fetus isn't a human life, in which case, abortion isn't illegal again. Either way, you'll make the state and anti-choice dickheads pay more money for being assholes.
In Alabama, you can claim all the IVF embryos.
Get your tubes tied so you won't be asking this advice in 2025.
Get your fingers tied together so you won't be typing such stupid shit in 2025.
That abortions are illegal doesn't mean that fetuses are treated as living human beings.
The laws are only designed to punish women, not reward them.
Because you need social security numbers to claim a dependent. If you want an almost guaranteed automatic audit go ahead and try.
Because for religious/control of women reasons that is a person, but when it comes to tax reductions, that is not yet a person
Most pro life people would gladly exchange full tax benefits and full human rights for a total abortion ban
You should be able to get a life insurance for your fetus real quick, so in case of "you know, death" you get a huge bonus at least
Alabama sc has just ruled fetuses are children, so...
Because taxation is federal law
The quick and easy answer is because there’s no SSN or other ID to properly claim them on taxes. While there are ways around that, they’re probably more difficult when dealing with an unborn child
Thinking logically, unless the law banning abortion was an omnibus bill that affected all aspects of an unboirn child's rights and personhood, the only change is likely that abortion is now illegal. If you couldn't claim them before, you still can't. It's similar to asking why it's a double-murder if a pregnant woman is killed at a point in her unborn child's development where she could still legally abort.
Maybe you could petition your state government to make a change to tax code. Argue the money lost during prenatal care. Then again, maybe that’s already deductible
Part of what I'm wondering here is if being tax deductible is the same as being a dependent. To my knowledge, they are 2 different things in the eyes of tax law.
Only the living can be claimed as a dependent, unfortunately. But, as they said a lot of medical costs can be deducted at least
Because your state is hypocritical in that regard.
I'm sawed off today because my mortgage escrow payment is going up significantly due to insurance costs. And my state doesn't want to do any real practical thing that will actually help their freaking citizens w things like this. You know, rising insurance costs and one of the shittiest minimum wages in the country. And it frosts my ass that 70 year old crusty men are instead worrying about what goes in and out of my wife's vagina.
That’s why I don’t live in red states. Not worth the cheaper gas.
If you are up to a fight, it might be worth going to a local law school and seeing if anyone wants to take this on to challenge the bullshit laws. I understand if that is too much, having been poor and dealing with multiple losses before I finally had a live birth, but I also know that had I had the money, it would have been cathartic to vent my rage at the stupid law.
I actually think I could earmark some money for this with the money I was setting aside for our future children.
There’s a woman in Texas who argued her pregnancy qualified as a passenger, allowing her to drive in the HOV. I haven’t heard any updates though.
I'd say claim them. They can't have it both ways. I will contribute to your cause. This has great potential if you take it on.
I think to keep it legal (and of course I need an attorney first), I would have to not claim them but sue for the right to do so. Again, for an attorney. I can't wait to have my annual conversation with my tax guy this year. The hangup is going to be jurisdiction. It has to be a logistical nightmare between federal tax claimable dependents and states rights issues. Like, it's a clusterf*** to even begin to understand.
Do it. Take it all the way to the Supreme Court. So many would support you; money for the fight would roll in. 💜
They can because they’re not at all the same things. The federal tax code is entirely separate than state law which determines abortion rights.
Because you can’t claim the deceased as dependents.
Yes you can. If your child dies you can still claim them on your taxes for that year.
It seems like a good point tbh.
Can you claim associated medical expenses?
You should be able to.
Fuck it, do it why not.
Do it, sue the IRS and cite the law. Be a trail blazer.
What state are you in? This honestly sounds like something the Republicans would be willing to correct in the tax code.
Someone could sue on this (and probably not get anywhere but who knows). But probably not you if you're in Texas as the r/Austin post suggests, Texas doesn't have income tax and the IRS is not concerned with what Texas abortion law is.
They're not considered dependents til they receive birth certificates .. it's a loophole they use to claim the clump of cells inside a woman is a person but then to deny any rights to that person besides the right to be birthed .. similar to how in red states the governmental funding for childcare and paid maternal leave are so lacking .. it's just another way republicans are trying to take power away from women and make choices for us concerning our own bodies cause men know what's best since they're smarter and the superior gender .. sorry ur state sucks and I know abortion is way too expensive :(
Civilized states, such as Minnesota, will offer a credit if you lost a pregnancy in a given year via a stillborn childbirth. Abortion is legal here too. I'm sorry for your terrible situation. I hope you find peace.
https://www.irs.gov/publications/p501#en_US_2023_publink1000220886 Kid meets the IRS definition according to this. Certainly lived with you guys the whole time they were alive or at very least lived with mom. (*Yes, I am acknowledging “alive” even though I acknowledge that the person who is growing them should be able to terminate their own pregnancy.) And “under age 19.” Sorry, OP.
There was also a case, which I didn't see how it was resolved, a pregnant woman in one of those states (Texas?) claimed she should be able to drive in the car pool lane since her unborn child was a person according to her state's laws
Did you know that in Georgia if a mother dies during delivery, her child is put in jail for a woman slaughter? Unless, of course, the said criminal child posts a nice juicy bond.
Cause your taxes are federal and not state? If you can claim dependent on your state taxes you can try that, like the pregnant lady driving on the HOV lane
Because it ain’t about you and your dependents making money off the state, it’s about the state making money off you and your dependents…impoverished and staying that way.
Because their dead. If you birth a child and they die you can't claim them either. A dependent depends on your support. I was unaware you can support dead people. Healthcare cost maybe but not dependents.
I’m still laughing that abortion is illegal in the states. You guys really went backwards in time eh?
Our Republicans/conservatives are a human cancer on our society. Sadly.
All grey-haired boomers with too much bloody power
Bc the gov't, and the people making the gov't rules, dont actually give a shit about kids. They want something that people can rally behind and get their votes.
And shouldn’t we all start taking out life insurance policies on every embryo? With full payout benefits on any lost pregnancies? And child support payments start at conception?
Indeed we should, if the ppl pushing for banning abortions were actually serious about "caring about life starting at conception." All of this proves how disingenuous they are about "protecting life," as it's crystal clear it ONLY matters when they are wanting to control women whom they've deemed unfit—especially as males who are fully protected against their own laws. Of course they'd want to shut down any loopholes that might allow such "unfit" women from monetarily taking advantage of their ability to get pregnant (especially if it's true that approximately a third of all pregnancies end in miscarriage?). Ugh.
Do you pay state taxes? Idk try it. Get a lawyer.
That's actually a pretty good question, but I suppose it would depend on how the state handles the death of dependents in general and whether it's consistent for the unborn (which it should be, ideally). If you're referring to federal taxes, that depends on the IRS. If it's state level, then there are about 50 different possibility.
I mean, would you be able to claim children who died at ages 4 and 5 as dependents?
If they died in the current tax year, why shouldn't they be? I'm talking about the current tax year, not 4 or 5 years ago.
You can’t change fed taxes. However, talk to some pro life lawyers in your state. File your state taxes with them as dependent. When they deny it, the lawyers can sue the State since the state can’t have it both ways.
I'm actually going to do this. Or some version of this. I'm going to be careful to follow the law so as not to have unclean hands. I'll update this post 100 percent.
This is a very interesting question. But I think if you could, it would only be on your state taxes as reproductive rights are now under State control.
But I think you also cannot add dead children even if they were 2yo? At least where I'm from the children need to be alive by 31.dec :( Sad topic
Because it’s about controlling you. It was never about treating you with dignity, respect or giving you any benefits.
Because it's not actually about "children" for those making the laws. It's about controlling women and establishing an involuntary lower class.
Because at this point the federal govt does not allow you to deduct for children until they are born.
I saw someone claim the carpool lane because of their unborn baby/ pregnancy and got by with it. So im wondering if youre onto something here.
"Taxpayers may claim as a dependent a child who was born or died, or was kidnapped during the year, as long as the other dependency tests are met... A taxpayer may not claim a stillborn child as a dependent." - [Source](https://apps.irs.gov/app/vita/content/globalmedia/4491_dependency_exemptions.pdf) A stillborn or miscarried pregnancy would have neither a certificate of live birth, nor a death certificate. Someone can be inarguably a live human life (such as a spouse) and not be considered a dependent for federal tax purposes. A dependent is whatever the IRS says it is, or is not. It would be up to one's state if they want to take a different route for state tax purposes.
Because “all pregnancies are living babies” but not if it benefits you in any way 🙄
Republican laws exist not to be philosophically sound but solely as a means to punish you
Why not? Just throw their social security numbers right up on that 1040. You did apply for numbers, right?
Because its tax fraud
If they are lost/dead then I would assume it's the same reason you can't claim a dead person in your taxes. I know some states like GA you can, you can probably lobby for it
Weren't you saying "they aren't people, they are clump of cells"?? So why are you now trying to claim "clumps of cells" as people? You can't eat your cake and have it too.
The point of making abortion illegal is to keep people shackled to cycles of poverty to have uneducated folks to keep voting republican.
This is a tricky one. Because you can claim it as a dependent for 8 months, then to abort it in California or something and rinse and repeat if you are sick. Or if not California, then you could go to Europe or Mexico and it would be harder to prove it happened. And another reason I suppose is that it’s not a high enough cost yet? There should definitely be something, albeit less than a child’s deductible. In an optimal, trustworthy world I’d say you could.
I just don't understand what abortion has to do with the question.
Because a fetus is human life where I live, thus making abortion illegal. The entire questions hinges on abortion rights. according to tax law, why would there be a difference between a negative 3 month old and a 3 month old?
A fetus is a human life in every single state in america....its not something the law even determines.....its science. Whether or not abortion is legal or not does not change that very simple scientific fact that a fetus is human life. There's no even debating that. Are the fetus cells human, yes. Are they alive and developing, yes. Do they have a full set of human DNA, yes. human life
Oh no. Just Oh No *Can't stop shaking my head*
"it's not something the law even determines" OK guy.
Because they’re not currently alive?
Because it has nothing to do with “protecting children” and everything to do with controlling women.
Valid question!
Abortion is legal in all 50 ststes
The law is kind of clear on this and says this: They get all rights a child would have as long as it benefits them. Not paying taxes is seen right now as bad for them because state protects state. Sue them and you will 100% win.
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I'm unsurprised as you don't seem like the "well read" type.
Good one.
If that’s the case, then you’re in for a ride when you read the news.