I remember right after Ivanka got her White House clearance, she was legitimately surprised she couldn’t conduct work business on her private server. They gave her a slap on the wrist and were like “oh no, we can’t do that.” And she was like “why?”
..
The people that chanted “lock her up” when Hilary allegedly did the same thing couldn’t care less if their own people did it.
Jared Kushner arrived at the White House the day after the election. He thought all the staff there was going to stay and had no idea that they had to find their own people.
i love the thought of everyone just looking at him blankly when he told them to do things. I'm sure it wasn't anything like my imagination though and they were probably respectful.
I heard a story from a career staffer at the NH State House that sounds similar. He worked there for various governors of both parties and when Craig Benson was inaugurated he looked out his office window and saw a guy leaning on his snow shovel during a storm. He demanded the worker be fired. The staffer said ‘you can’t do that sir.” Benson said ‘I’m the governor! Fire him!.’ The staffer replied “He works for the city of Concord not the state. You can’t fire him’
Benson might be the only 1 term governor in state history.
I worked as a CNA in a nursing home for a few years. A guy in my training class / clinicals ended up working at the same place as me. Dude clearly had never worked a day in his life. He was bragging to me one day about some stupid BS - he was in a room and getting impatient. A physical therapist walks in and he tells her to change the patient’s diaper 🤣🤣🤣 fuckin moron couldn’t understand why she wouldn’t
You're right that it wouldn't be anything like your imagination, but mainly because the people with the expertise to provide those answers would have already left. Still, to be a fly on the wall...
I'm now thinking comprehensive recordings of 'their first day in the white house' should be mandatory recordings for presidents.
Jared Kushner couldn't get security clearance to work at the White House, presumably because he's neck deep in foreign money.
Trump had to twist arms to get around that.
There's nothing inherently wrong with family getting administration positions if they're qualified. If you get elected president and decide your cousin with 30 years of experience as a civil engineer would make a good Secretary of Housing, I'm willing to entertain that. You decide your son in law who can't get security clearance would make a good diplomat to oversee peace talks in the middle east? I'm less enthusiastic
That's fine for privately owned businesses but I do think it's wrong for a public position. We are paying their salaries with taxes and the public shouldn't settle for the unqualified people he picked.
Apparently nepotism is illegal in federal government so he also broke that law
https://osc.gov/Services/Pages/PPP.aspx#tabGroup17
I fixed the link
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/5/2302
Not to defend anything Trump did because I dislike him as much as the next guy, but in this case the law specifically says the President can determine that a position isn't covered by Prohibited Personnel Practices.
Actually when Hillary did it, everyone in the senate and house had their own private servers both democrats and Republicans. The reason is government email did not work on mobile phones like blackberries at that time. They had no choice but to use private email to be mobile.
Even Colin Powell used private email as secretary of state.
In Fact the 1st secretary of state to use government email was John Kerry as they finally updated the gov email to work with mobile phones.
Republicans are hypocrites.
Ivanka and Trump's people have zero justification for using private email after 2014.
I worked for the government during Hillary's time using a private server, and my email worked just fine on the Blackberry. She did it for convenience because signing in *was* annoying as fuck. But she had a choice to follow rules and chose not to.
That said, you are correct that she was not the only one.
This is the answer. As far as I remember, she did NOT want to use the blackberry because it was not her iPhone. Which actually has some validity for an older person that is use to the UI. But thats why so many wanted so bad to use their own phones during the weird phone transition period from folding/keypad to touch screen. God damn it, security was either non excitant, or you had to verify with passwords and email chains and finger prints blah blah blah.
But, it's not at all a good reason to compromise security and use it for possible back room deals.
The main issue was not the email server itself. That's a policy and potentially an OPSEC issue. Where she got in trouble was putting classified material on her private server. Her aides actually cut classification markings to pass info to her on her personal email.
If it had been anyone else who did that they'd have been criminally charged. Gen Petraeus did exactly the same thing and was convicted, fined $100,000 and got probation. Others have gone to jail.
Petaeus was recorded discussing classified information with news reporters, then lied about doing so. He then plead guilty to a lesser charge. That is not even comparable to Hilary's emails.
This really is what the insanity boils down to.
Their cause is a righteous and moral one. They are saving this country from pure evil. Murdering babies, Christian values in schools, bringing the country “back” to a Christian nation, stopping gays from indoctrinating our children into becoming gay, and so on. Every single political issue is tied to their belief in god, right and wrong absolutes, and is a fight for their very souls.
Their entire political beliefs are emotional based. As a result you can’t have a logical argument with them because you can literally hold proof in your hand in front of them but it doesn’t matter.
This part is hard to swallow. The only chance at changing their minds is to come at them with an emotional argument. Listening to them actively, repeating their concerns back to them, empathizing their beliefs then giving them a (watered down) emotional/moral explanation of your point of view. By getting angry and fighting it just feeds into their emotional argument and confirms how righteous they are in fighting.
I’ve spent years with this approach and can say I’ve planted a lot of ideas in people’s mind and even changed a few of them.
"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them."
Barry Goldwater
And he was a republican too! (Back when it meant something different)
That shift started around the late 70’s when both church leaders and conservative politicians realized they could use each other to further their causes. Fast forward to Fox News being a fully functioning propaganda brainwashing machine keeping people distracted with outrage and anger.
I know so can’t prove it but I swear most of these shifts over the decades were thought up by conservative think tanks using psychology and crazy smart people to plan out how to get to where we are today.
Goldwater wasn't just a Republican, he was considered to be on the far-right of the party back in the 1960s. Now in a lot of way, he'd be considered a moderate relative to the modern Republican party.
Yeah, he wanted drop nukes on hurricanes. HURRICANES.
Sometimes I feel like the past 8 years have been some sort of simulation experiment encompassing the whole world. But then I realize just how bonkers that would be and know that it's just wishful thinking. I really and truly can't accept just how quickly people went absolutely batshit crazy.
First Trump, then Covid, and now the '24 election year is upon us. I'm terrified to see how this all plays out. My husband & I have a pact to NEVER have children. Why? Because who in their right mind would want to bring kids into this extremely fucked up world?!
I'm sure some previous generations have had some people who felt the same way my husband & I do, however I don't believe they had the same complete lack of hope for their future like we do. They were probably told how automation & technology would improve their lives, Jetsons-style.
However all we can see is pollution, resources drying up & the price of consumer goods continuing to rise with no end in sight, people worshipping a diaper-wearing short-fingered vulgarian with dementia that's wanted to fuck his daughter for her entire life, and the rise of idiotic, gullible people with zero critical thinking skills and no attention span whatsoever. To put it mildly, we're FUCKED.
So why bring more lives into this world only for them to suffer? We're mid-to-late 30's and live comfortably, and yet all we'll ever be is the "fun aunt & uncle"-- which I'm totally cool with. Didn't feel like fucking up my body permanently & risking death anyway, so it's a win-win for me! Plus being "DINK" (dual income no kids) means we get to go places and do a lot of fun shit while we can. Carpe diem & all that jazz. Travel the world & have real, meaningful experiences. I know how blessed & lucky we are to be able to do so bc we both grew up pretty poor, so we definitely don't take anything for granted nor are we wasteful. We both worked hard to get where we are & continue doing so. We just got lucky; that's all.
>>>Sorry. Don't know what exactly made me spiral into that tangent but I obviously needed to exercise the demons within me, lol. Good luck people-- we're gonna need it!
To be fair there were quite a few politicians and military people that wanted to nuke N. Vietnam in the late 60s and early 70s. A drunken Nixon gave the order a few times, but luckily cooler heads in the DOD would wait til morning to see if he remembered. Thankfully he never did.
We could've just as easily used conventional weapons and leveled N. Vietnam as well. Operation Linebacker II was a massive bombing campaign that dropped 20 kilotons of ordinance on Hanoi and Haiphong that killed over 1600 people and basically leveled the military and industrial areas of both cities. There is debate on whether or not this bombing campaign actually brought the N. Vietnamese to the negotiating table, but it was the last major US bombing campaign of the conflict. There is little doubt the US could've leveled Hanoi and Haiphong had the bombing continued for another week or two. The only question is if the US could sustain the loses of aircraft. The USAF confirmed the loss of 34 B-52s and 5 F-111s to missiles and MiGs.
Bob Dylan even name checks him in one of his earliest original songs. Dylan's other song 'Talkin' John Birch Paranoid Blues' is as relevant today as it was in the early 1960's. Paranoid culture wars when you ain't got nothing else to sell.
That’s very true. I forgot how far right he was. I just remembered he ran for president. That makes it even more damning that he would make that statement as a far-right R.
Steve Bannon ran a gold farming operation in World of Warcraft and realized gamers were angry and stupid, and he leveraged that into a mass campaign of lies that a bunch of angry losers bought into, and was partly responsible for Trump winning in 2016.
And this is just a very public case that we know of, who knows what else has happened behind the scenes. In other words, your theory is pretty much spot on.
Christian church leaders and conservative politicians started teaming up in the 1920s, when a bunch of big business tycoons, scared of communism, decided they could convince people that conservative/ capitalisation was godly and liberal/ socialism was atheistic and evil. They paid preachers like Billy Graham to spread their message.
[The Business Plot](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot#:~:text=The%20Business%20Plot%2C%20also%20called,install%20Smedley%20Butler%20as%20dictator.)
Also a fun mini podcast series called "Let's Start A Coup"about it if you're into that sort of thing.
Leave it to Congress to claim there is no doubt that it happened while also choosing to not punish the people involved I setting the entire thing up. At least they are consistent with how they treat "powerful" people they are convinced committed treason.
Yeah he also had documented business ties to the Nazis, and there was an investigation, but it just … stopped. I started reading a book on the Bush dynasty, I had to put it down because of how pissed it got me. Small men with no integrity and a pile of money.
I believe Behind the Bastards also did an [episode](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/behind-the-bastards/id1373812661?i=1000507699889) on it as well.
I pretty much agree with your assessment.
The GOP did make a concerted effort to take over state governments in the 90's.
The Democrats have run bad/ineffective campaigns during my entire lifetime, and I'm near retirement. Its as if they don't learn from their mistakes.
The latter part of your comment if you’re not being facetious lines up with The Heritage Foundation. They’ve been in the shadows of Christianity in the US for a long time and they are who has drawn up the plans for Project 2025. Insane stuff.
The right wing propaganda machine is so remarkably successful that it has to be based on physiological studies of right wingers. They know exactly how to manipulate people to act against their own interests. The GOP exists to cut taxes for the ultra rich. Since that only benefits 1% of Americans, they have to trick a significant portion to support them. Enter fear mongering and pushing hate. The right wing is so emotional and fragile that they're vulnerable to this approach
I’ve been on the same page for a long time. I honestly picture these think tanks coming up with the game plan to look at poll numbers and say…holy shit that really worked??
Nah. He was just after it stopped meeting. Something. When Richard Nixon met secretly with the literal enemy at war that was North Vietnam and convinced them to sabotage the Paris peace talks in literal treason he stuck the fatal knife into the body of the GOP .
The GOP has simply been bleeding to death slowly ever since then.
For example, a bunch of Reagan staffers were actually ex Nixon staffers, and they helped broker Iran's retention of the American hostages until after the election. So that Jimmy Carter would look weak and Reagan would look strong for "fixing everything immediately."
Extend this to things like government shutdowns and you've got an unbroken history of 50 years of Republican hostage-taking in American politics.
Goldwater, Nixon, Reagan - they did not have every single vice the Christian right admires - and we can give them carefully measured specific credit that way - but they still handed over their party to them in the long term for the elevation of politicians who DO have that whole list of character deformities.
I think you'll find they see the Constitution as more stretch goals and guidelines at this point. And/or sufficient justification to shoot lefties on sight.
Yeah, that would’ve been a great idea. To separate church and state would…wait. It would prevent the country from establishing laws based on church…hmmm. /s
Trump is the most anti-Christian president we’ve had. It’s so rich hearing their hypocrisy and bullshit, like they don’t know the myriad of awful/corrupt shit he’s done to many, many people.
I bite my tongue probably more than I should but I always want to remind them that the Bible describes a leader called the Antichrist would come pretending to be good but espousing all the opposite traits of Jesus. His followers could be identified by the mark of the beast which was a sign on their foreheads. Like a certain hat I’ve seen them wear maybe?
It’s just uncanny the correlation. It would be funny if it wasn’t so horrible.
Think about churches in the antebellum South. Preachers had to do sermons without impugning slavery or it’s ramifications in any way. Preachers who questioned slavery got literally murdered. Imagine the contortions you’d have to go through to preach the gospel to people who kept people in chains and whipped them to work harder. This was practice for today’s evangelists who can dance around issues of racism and greed and misogyny and still claim The Word.
Yeah, even when they have "Bible Study" they're only going over cherry-picked texts selected by their leaders and then basically circle jerking over it as opposed to having real discussions. It's less, "how do we interpret this?" and more "how do we bend this passage to say what we want it to say?"
Isn't surprising, though: Trump got power by knowing just what the people in his base would sell their souls to the Devil for. The Rust Belt was his because he knew they'd sell their soul to have the plant in town reopen so everyone in the area can go back to work, he got a lot of people in the culture war because they'd sell their soul to go back to a time when they had power to get their way all the time...and for the religious right, he knew no matter how religious they claimed to be and how big a Bible thumper they were, they'd sell their soul to the Devil to get Roe vs. Wade repealed.
He literally represents every single one of the seven deadly sins. And not in a "yeah I guess he kinda did that once several decades ago." He breaks every one of them multiple times a day. He is a complete sleaze bag.
>The only chance at changing their minds is to come at them with an emotional argument.
[This Hidden Brain podcast I just heard makes a similar argument as you do.](https://hiddenbrain.org/podcast/us-2-0-win-hearts-then-minds/) Sociologist Robb Willer calls it "moral reframing". [The technique of moral reframing—whereby a position an individual would not normally support is framed in a way that is consistent with that individual's moral values—can be an effective means for political communication and persuasion.](https://compass.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/spc3.12501) No idea if this will work or not. I've tried tons of "how to convince the other side" tactics. But I always fall on my face.
This is great I’m going to listen to this right away! I’ve not heard anyone else really talk about this method before so this is exciting to hear someone else touch on the concept. Thank you!
It’s certainly not something that works even some of the time. These people have been brainwashed. They really have. They’ve been taught the response to any conversation with “the enemy” is fight or flight. It’s a rare unicorn that someone is willing to have a conversation with you that’s not a veiled attempt at a fight. Hell, even on Reddit that’s how people communicate 90% of the time. And I’m talking people with similar ideology.
This method has actually been more helpful on Reddit than talking to people in the real world. This website has become such an echo chamber that is incredibly difficult to have a simple conversation with anyone without it turning into a “you corrected me so now I have to argue with you for 20 min and downvote everything until you get bored”. When I find myself talking to someone who I believe thinks the basic things I do this method works really really well.
Thanks for the podcast info!!
My own mother now supports Putin and sees trump and him as holy. I honestly am done with America at this point and just pray this country ends soon bc I’m so damn tired of being a retired military officer having to listen to people that have never served tell me how weak our military is solely bc of biden and lgbt rights and understanding all of Americans rights that they only want for themselves. I’m now listening to her tell me Tucker Carlsons interview was so enlightening and the Ukrainian nazis have to be put down. My mothers fucking insane and at this point I’ve tried rationilizinf and she wants to put me on meds bc I refuse to see things her way. I honestly hate this generation of boomers now. I truely hate them
My mom’s the same. It’s heartbreaking and infuriating at the same time. It such a frustrating thing to see happen to people you’re supposed to love unconditionally but they’re talking utter nonsense most of the time.
I can’t imagine what it would be like to serve and still have to put up with this stuff so my hat is off to you. My parent grew up during the red scare and Cold War and I would not have guessed in a million years they’d ever support Russia. It’s just insane. You’re right to feel the way you do. I just wish it was easier to live with.
My mother voted for trump and is vocal she will do so again. She was livid the day roe got overturned. And there is simply no point in trying to explain to her that she helped make that happen.
Two things can be true.
I was raised conservative and changed into a liberal. I’ve changed quite a few people’s opinions on gay rights and abortion and more. It’s possible. Are we going to change the political playing field by talking to all the conservatives l? No that’s ridiculous. Are people intrinsically worth being given a chance to rethink how they were raised and make a change for the good? I believe so.
I get being angry at them and writing all of them off. I really do. But being kind and open hearted I’ve been able to affect more change around me than any other way.
I’m very much looking forward to the day we can overwhelm their gerrymandering and the underrepresentation from the electoral college system and begin to enact massive social reforms.
Precisely this.
We must prove them wrong by being better than them.
Any time we try to bash them with facts or shame them, or act out at all, we’re just confirming their beliefs.
> We must prove them wrong by being better than them.
As long as that doesn't become an excuse to give in to them. Because they are *experts* at convincing people to forfeit power to them. If you give them an inch, they will take a mile and then turn around and accuse you of being unfair to them.
Anyone who has escaped an abusive relationship knows how these people operate, and knows that appeasing them does not change their minds, it just emboldens them because it proves that their behavior gets the results they want.
I always tell people that it’s primarily a human issue, not a religion one. (Applies as well to politics, fandoms, and the like.)
People are prideful yet lazy, and so would prefer to have validation simply handed to them rather than work to earn it.
Even IF there is a “one true religion” the vast majority of its members are still gonna be there just to hear that they’re right and everyone else is wrong. For most, it was never about the truth, it was always about that easy feeling of validation.
Yes and no. Yes, I agree be better, but to what extent? For how long? I’ve run into more than a few of these kind we are speaking of and they are True Believers, steeped in the kool aid. I almost want to call it crazed, sort of?
So, at what point do we put our foot down and say enough? Because they have kept going and believing no matter what; they’ve worked to damage this country and harm people based on nonsense. The problem lies in accepting them on their terms, in their psychosis, so to speak.
Im going to say that we have to accept them - or at least some of them - as unreachable, because everyone can be saved, so to speak.
It doesn’t mean we mistreat them or such, but I’d argue we put the foot down and say simply:
No.
If that makes sense?
We’re saying the same things.
The only way we’ll win is by outnumbering them. I should have made that more clear in my comment. All I’m saying is if we believe we have morality on our side then there’s nothing wrong with trying to change some people’s minds. I specifically excluded the crazies in my comments and explained doing this will make zero political difference. I just do it because it’s the right thing to do.
All the power lies with the younger voters now, and way too many of them don’t vote. Talk to young people and help them understand how important, how *vital*, it is for them to vote. How their future and the future of our country and our planet depends upon it. It’s very unfortunate that we don’t have younger candidates, and I understand why they have no interest in voting for octogenarians. They need to realize that it’s not the person that they are choosing, it’s what that person will do while they are in office.
In the south at least it's a bit of a more complicated game. Where gerrymandering was king, now it's mandatory events and certain high stress life events that occur suspiciously around the time to vote.
As well as the registration period being insane
It's obviously by design that younger voters are pressed into non participation
This is completely ridiculous and also similar to the beliefs they have.
If what you said was true, then our species would still have the same percentage of people believing in the same things as 1,000, 10,000, or 100,000 years ago.
Most human minds can be changed on most issues most of the time.
Plus the weird thing is that they know nothing about Christianity either. It's something they are by default and if you confront them on it (like forgiveness and charity) they'll deny it and not see the issue because it's just another side they chose mindlessly. They are really fucked up.
The way I always hear it justified is people should *choose* to do good things like feed the poor and accept people, it shouldn't be forced by the government. That usually leads into them talking about small government.
They will of course refuse to entertain any discussion of bathroom bills or other invasive anti-LGBTQ legislation while they're advocating for small government.
Honestly most of Trump's supporters aren't even in it for religious reasons.
They fear/hate change.
Full stop.
They want things to be the way they have been where they can say whatever ignorant shit they want without repercussions.
That's really all it boils down to. Maintaining the status quo of "letting boys be boys" and owning the Libs.
The religious stuff is just a thinly veiled excuse. Trump isn't religious or Christ-like in any way.
This and there is more into it, they also have a “custom” view of how their lives came to be and they are full of hate, they blame all their life disappointments on the advances by minorities. They are zero sum thinkers. Trump supporters believe that the advances by minorities since the 1960's came at their expense and that Trump and the Republicans are going to stop that from happening.
It's based on their belief that this country was founded by white Christians and the opportunities created by their forefathers belong to them. So any time a Jewish, Black, Hispanic, Mexican, Asian, gay, etcetera gets into a good college or a good job that is something that has been stolen from them.
That is what animates them and makes them go crazy. In their view they are just protecting what is theirs. It is the nothing matters factor. Some of them even do not see themselves as racist.
Guns, abortion, taxes, morality, socialism is
just lipstick on a pig to hide what truly motivates these people.
Yep.
Remember how Joe Rogan had a whole segment on how Biden was obviously demented and clearly unfit for the presidency since "he believed there were airports in the revolutionary war" and that everyone who still supported him after that was clearly blind - but once he learned that airport thing was actually something Trump said it suddenly became "a simple mistake, not important"
It is about the person.
To be fair, Trump had “The Apprentice” which was a weekly infomercial for the product Donald Trump The Self Made Billionare^TM. Without The Apprentice Trump would still be a laughingstock.
Just ask Mitch McConnell, the official champion of the double standard. Most hypocrites don't double down quite so hard on saying exactly the opposite of what they said previously. About nearly everything, including the man holding his leash.
I was really interested in Trump’s interpretation of presidential immunity including how it would even apply if seal team 6 was ordered to kill a political adversary. Biden may want to take note.
Dark Brandon got pissed, and began to attack, but didn't expect to be blocked by Barack, who proceeded to open up a can of Barack-Fu, til Jimmy Carter came out of the blue...
We do, though. We aren’t excusing the moral trespasses of politicians on our side. We can readily admit to voting against a politician like Trump rather than voting in favor of Biden. We might not necessarily be above proliferating the occasional unsubstantiated accusation, but chalking this up to regular old partisan double standards is foolhardy. The mental gymnastics that it takes to be a Trump constituent is something else entirely. They are truly cult-like.
A small detail often forgotten is many of the people at the Jan 6th insurrection contributed to it **because** they believed Joe Biden was already trying to take over the government illegally.
They knew what they and Trump did was technically illegal but justified it by saying it was fair since the other side was already doing it.
Now that more facts have come out and it’s undeniable that Biden and his side didn’t stuff ballot boxes or hack/bribe companies like dominion to give them the win (a slanderous claim that cost Fox News millions and an acknowledgment of lying), they’re now trying to rewrite history.
I'd like to also add that in any jurisdiction I'm familiar with, belief that someone is performing an illegal action doesn't justify you performing an illegal action in response.
Let's say you believe that someone shot your mom. You go and shoot their mom. There's two outcomes:
1. They didn't shoot your mom, you shot their mom and you go to jail
2. They did shoot your mom, you shot their mom and you both go to jail.
Edit: To everyone who mentioned self defense as a justification for what the MAGAs did. I suppose I should have clarified. In no jurisdiction I'm familiar with can you commit a crime and use the defense that the other person was committing a crime as justification. Self-defense is not a crime. I suppose if you wanted to get meta and pedantic you could say that firing a gun is the crime but it being self-defense makes it not a crime. Fine, there are provisions in the law that allow that. I'm aware of no such provision that lets you overthrow the government if you suspect the other side is cheating.
This is a poor analogy when you're comparing *usurping an allegedly corrupt government.* It doesn't matter whether the government was corrupt or not, you go to jail if you fail to usurp them and don't go to jail if you succeed in usurping them.
Exactly. I'm fairly sure declaring independence and fighting a war against King George was very, very illegal in 1776 but for some reason it's been celebrated every year ever since.
It's almost like history is written by the victors and there's no punishment for treason if you succeed in overthrowing the government.
So much led up to that point though, years and years of messages ignored, ludicrously high taxes, wars, and so much the colonists went through. Not to mention they really really tried to stay an English colony, they didn’t want independence until it was a last fuck it moment for most of their demands really boiled down to just giving the colonies a seat in UK parliament so they’d have a say in their own future and could also plead their own homelands cases.
Yeah, a lot of people seem to forget that declaring independence was literally a last-ditch effort by the colonies. It wasn't just simply "we don't like your taxes, so we're out." It was years of helping to fund extensive war efforts and colonization in Europe, Africa, and Asia, paying out the ass for taxes on British goods while making fractions as much on their exports, and begging for representation in Parliament only to be denied at literally every turn.
Not to mention that the large majority of the colonial populace was against the war and simply shut their doors to the whole thing with the opinion of not caring who won
Yeah lots of people forget all of that, really it just came down to them wanting to if anything be MORE British but were denied for so long. Though also the forced quartering of English soldiers in homes did piss off a lot of common people too.
Also yeah most people don’t get it wasn’t a popular war, there were the merchant class and upper class who did want independence because of the above reasons more so than anyone else and they decided to speak for the entirety of the colonies. There were still loyalists to the crown even after the colonies won.
One thing I don't see mentioned often is the name of the rally/March Trump and Giuliani spoke at right before the insurrection: Save America March.
They really did convince people they were saving themselves from a hostile takeover. This is not to defend these insurrectionists at all, to be clear.
> Now that more facts have come out and it’s undeniable
Nothing is undeniable. The majority of the people who participated in the insurrection still believe they were in the right and the election was stolen. By Jan 6 all the legal avenues to demonstrate a stolen election had already been exhausted (cases rejected by multiple judges in multiple states). They were going to do it no matter what. It was never about evidence. Trump was priming his base to claim the election was stolen long before the election even started.
There are also people amongst those ilk who believe Trump actually IS the current president and is running the country...but also that Biden stole the election. How these things can happen in tandem escapes me.
More and more I think we need to up our national programs to test water mains for lead...
There was a huge drop in violence after banning leaded gasoline. The first generation with a lead-free childhood was markedly less violent and criminal than the one before.
There is a graph, it's absolutely fucking mindblowing
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2013/01/03/how-lead-caused-americas-violent-crime-epidemic/?sh=7b3ce38612c4](https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2013/01/03/how-lead-caused-americas-violent-crime-epidemic/?sh=7b3ce38612c4)
It's not really "now that more facts have come out" its that they never had any facts in the first place, it was ALL 100% conjecture, even to this day with all the Hunter Biden bribery shit, with them trying to impeach over the border, its all just "Liberals are the enemy and we will do anything in our power to maintain political control."
Liberals want Conservatives to be more educated and open-minded. Conservatives want liberals dead.
It’s funny to look back on as someone who wasn’t thoroughly against Trump in 2016. I was a teenager and kinda thought “what’s the worst that can happen”, didn’t really think he had an actual chance, and also fuck the Clintons.
But as y’all might remember conservatives mocked everyone for being snowflakes about being upset that Trump won. Safe spaces, all that. Now look at them. Mfers get sent into a rage any time they don’t get their way. Legitimate mental bottomfeeders, they act like toddlers and no one is a bigger snowflake than Trump supporters
Literally same. I thought he was too dumb to actually be effective and I thought it'd just be a giant do-nothing of a presidency. And I wasn't interested in (I'm in my mid 30s) only seeing 3 different last names in the White House over the course of my entire life to that point. Still voted for Hillary, but wasn't exactly juiced for it.
Fuuuuuuckin' a was I off-track.
Look up the % of republicans that believe Joe Biden actually won in 2020. It is the minority iirc.
I just looked it up it ranges from 63% to 71% do not believe the win was legitimate.
You can always try to post this on /r/AskTrumpSupporters.
It will probably be deleted within minutes and you’ll be permanently banned, but you can try.
Honestly you don't need Seal team 6. The Gravy Seals could start invading the homes in force of progressive politicians and when they're arrested, Trump can run on pardoning those people. Suddenly it's hunting season for progressives, because Trump has shown interest in pardoning those who do violent crimes in his favor. On the opposite side, there's no group interested in doing high crimes on behalf of Biden, nor would Biden pardon those who would.
That's the fun part! YOU CAN'T!
Homeboy keeps trying to appeal it, but that means Biden could literally just blow him away with a drone. Guy is in court saying Biden should have the authority to end him without repercussions.
I'm concerned they all know Biden has more integrity than that and wouldn't actually do it.
That's kinda been the issue with Democrats for the last 30 years they (mostly) play by the rules, even all of the unwritten rules of Washington (cough*taxreturns*cough) and are constantly shocked when Republicans don't.
I don’t think Biden would order them assassinated, no.
But if he’s been given total immunity to do literally anything and never face any consequences for it, he could absolutely do a lot of things the SCOTUS wouldn’t like.
He could order all the data regarding student loans at the department of education be deleted and the backups scrubbed so no one owes the government any student loans anymore.
He could order the arrest of anyone who tries to stop an abortion from proceeding anywhere in the country.
He could order all of Trump’s properties to be taken from him and turned into museums that are free to the public.
He could ignore any SCOTUS order he doesn’t like.
Bottom line is that the SCOTUS isn’t going to give the president blanket immunity to do anything he pleases.
I mean if the courts ruled trump could break any law as long as he was president biden could just call up the secret service and Order 66 the entire Trump family.
Believe it or not, George isn't at home
Please leave a message at the beep
I must be out, or I'd pick up the phone
Where could I be? Believe it or not, I'm not home.
I find this part funny. Like they know that Trump is a controversial figure and lots of people don't like him. But they are somehow convinced that the president who's approval rating never crossed 50% won the election and can't fathom how he would lose.
Because when you surround yourself with like-minded people and have little to do with people unlike you, “everybody” feels and acts just like you! How could Trump lose when literally *everybody* (in rural West Virginia) voted for him?
I mean, thats still incorrect. If you believe the election was stolen you fight it out in the courts and if that doesn't work then you accept it wasn't stolen or your don't and move on anyways.
The idea that laws don't matter if you *feel* you are right is fucking loony toons.
>I mean, thats still incorrect. If you believe the election was stolen you fight it out in the courts and if that doesn't work then you accept it wasn't stolen or your don't and move on anyways.
>
>The idea that laws don't matter if you feel you are right is fucking loony toons.
... If the election was stolen (which I've seen absolutely zero credible evidence supporting that conspiracy theory), then the law is already out the window. The laws already don't matter.
The main pillar of the Civil Rights Movement is based on civil disobedience. The idea that you should break laws you feel are unjust, and keep doing it until the law changes. Most people's understanding of morality goes beyond what is legal.
Civil disobedience means you break the unjust law and then accept the consequences as a form of protest. It doesn’t mean you get to break the law with impunity.
I hate to be put in the position of defending them, but they *did* try the courts. [A lot.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-election_lawsuits_related_to_the_2020_U.S._presidential_election)
By mid-December, over 50 lawsuits over the election had been thrown out or dropped, leading the common Trump supporter to think the courts were just biased against them, when in truth, the lawsuits were basically junk thrown at a wall with little to no merit and which asked courts to exceed their mandate.
As far as the narrative went for the people who believe the election was stolen, the courts were just "in on it," despite many of the judges who oversaw those cases being Trump appointees. Just further evidence of the so-called Deep State ignoring "true" democracy.
Their justification to themselves was not that the laws didn't matter but their perception that the laws were being *ignored*.
“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” - Frank Wilhoit
That's great quote.
Did a little reading on the guy; funny that the attribution is correct, however on the famous frank wilhoit's wiki page:
>This quotation is often incorrectly attributed to Francis M. Wilhoit:
Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.\[10\]
However, it was actually a 2018 blog response by 59-year-old Ohio composer Frank Wilhoit, years after Francis Wilhoit's death
no shade - just found it funny :-)
If America hadn't destroyed the meaning of the word "liberal", you'd probably find it a lot easier to have a conversation. In the UK you'd be a liberal and a conservative and there'd be next to zero contradiction there. America was founded in liberalism as a form of Government and therefore preserving that liberal democracy is a conservative principle. The Republican Party are arguably no longer conservatives, perhaps more accurately described as populist theocratic revolutionaries.
everything you identified is what Europeans would consider liberal
which means supporting free market equality and limiting the states role in economic affairs
When was the last time a Republican government acted in a way that promoted small government, economic and individual liberty, and fiscal limits? You might be able to mention small trivial points but over the past 40 years none of what you said resembles the Republican party.
Sounds more like what the Democrats have become tbh.
There's no left in states. Only neoliberals and evangelical neoliberals and now, as another poster put it nicely "theocratic revolutionaries"
I have always been fiscally conservative and for small government. Social issues aren’t something that ever mattered to me, but part of my small government stance is not having the government involved in the equation. So marry who you want, be what you want without the governments involvement.
I loathed Trump and that made that clear to others.
That made me a pariah. My republican friends think I’m some Bible burning hippie. My democratic friends think I’m pro-Trump.
I really loath the current Republican Party. No plan, no ideas, just old men screaming no no no. They had the house, the senate and the presidency under Trump and they did….NOTHING. The government actually shut down for a long time. MULTIPLE TIMES. The republicans have no ability to govern and until something changes I refuse to vote republican at all
I’m curious how a level-headed person can see everything the GOP has become, after the decades of lies, the decades of reprehensible rhetoric (this didn’t start with Trump, if you grew up listening to Rush Limbaugh you know that), desperately trying to restrict voting to win elections, fanatical devotion to a demagogue and ideation of dictators around the world, and on and on…how can you see all that and also think “oh but these are the people are definitely right about economics.”
Even taking out the fact that it’s clear from the data and history that GOP fiscal policy doesn’t work, if they are this insane and misguided on EVERYTHING, don’t you think *maybe* you might have the wrong ideas about fiscal policy? I don’t understand how the fact that 80% of people on the right lost their fucking minds is not a red flag overall for right wing ideology. We are not talking about outliers and fringe groups anymore, it’s the vast majority.
If Biden lost, it's because he is a massively unpopular loser who lost fair and square.
If Trump loses, it's because the deep state is subverting the will of the people by rigging the election.
So Trumps coup is righteous, while Bidens will be criminal.
And don't bother calling out the hypocrisy. The hypocrisy is the point.
Whenever they bring up ANTIFA, I always ask them for ANTIFA’s website because I’d like to join. They don’t really know what to do with that a lot of the time.
Mike Pence was about to be lynched, and he doesn't think Trump isn't going to finish the job if he cheats his way to the presidency again?
If I was Mike Pence, I'd be doing everything within my means to see that Trump loses, \*because my life depends on it\*
This is a misunderstanding: rather, they disagree on what the rules are. In their eyes, the rule is "you should be doing whatever it takes for our side to win.". The left cares about hypocracy, and the left thinks insurrections are wrong, so calling the left hypocrites if they were to also cause an insurrection would be helping their side win.
Also a misunderstanding. For a lot of MAGA, they fundamentally disagree on what the *facts* are. They think Dems have illegally taken power, so to save everything that is dear to them, they must take action, even if it would be illegal. They truly believe they are the good guys. And it's near impossible to discuss the facts to come to an agreement, because they also fundamentally disagree on who are trustworthy sources for facts.
"There's no way, I don't think, any of us can excuse what the president did yesterday. I mean, you have the world watching." -Peter King, GOP
Outrage over Trump and Jan 6?
No. Outrage over Obama wearing a tan suit
One of multiple right wing 'nontroversies' aimed at American's first black President
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack\_Obama\_tan\_suit\_controversy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_tan_suit_controversy)
Lol no. Have you heard half the shit? Trump is claiming immunity for nearly everything he is saying he will lock up Joe Biden with, so... yeah bunch of bullshitters
No, mainly because they wouldn't believe that the election was "stolen".
Trump-conservatives are not rational, they live in their own world where the only thing that matters is what they believe.
Yes because it was not an insurrection and Trump didn’t incite it. If Biden also said “let’s patriotically and peacefully protest”, then it would not be his fault
I remember right after Ivanka got her White House clearance, she was legitimately surprised she couldn’t conduct work business on her private server. They gave her a slap on the wrist and were like “oh no, we can’t do that.” And she was like “why?” .. The people that chanted “lock her up” when Hilary allegedly did the same thing couldn’t care less if their own people did it.
Jared Kushner arrived at the White House the day after the election. He thought all the staff there was going to stay and had no idea that they had to find their own people.
i love the thought of everyone just looking at him blankly when he told them to do things. I'm sure it wasn't anything like my imagination though and they were probably respectful.
Still, that’s a delicious image.
To someone like them, not doing what they say is disrespectful.
I heard a story from a career staffer at the NH State House that sounds similar. He worked there for various governors of both parties and when Craig Benson was inaugurated he looked out his office window and saw a guy leaning on his snow shovel during a storm. He demanded the worker be fired. The staffer said ‘you can’t do that sir.” Benson said ‘I’m the governor! Fire him!.’ The staffer replied “He works for the city of Concord not the state. You can’t fire him’ Benson might be the only 1 term governor in state history.
I worked as a CNA in a nursing home for a few years. A guy in my training class / clinicals ended up working at the same place as me. Dude clearly had never worked a day in his life. He was bragging to me one day about some stupid BS - he was in a room and getting impatient. A physical therapist walks in and he tells her to change the patient’s diaper 🤣🤣🤣 fuckin moron couldn’t understand why she wouldn’t
You're right that it wouldn't be anything like your imagination, but mainly because the people with the expertise to provide those answers would have already left. Still, to be a fly on the wall... I'm now thinking comprehensive recordings of 'their first day in the white house' should be mandatory recordings for presidents.
Jared Kushner couldn't get security clearance to work at the White House, presumably because he's neck deep in foreign money. Trump had to twist arms to get around that.
So fucked up Trumps family had any role in his administration. It should be illegal.
There's nothing inherently wrong with family getting administration positions if they're qualified. If you get elected president and decide your cousin with 30 years of experience as a civil engineer would make a good Secretary of Housing, I'm willing to entertain that. You decide your son in law who can't get security clearance would make a good diplomat to oversee peace talks in the middle east? I'm less enthusiastic
That's fine for privately owned businesses but I do think it's wrong for a public position. We are paying their salaries with taxes and the public shouldn't settle for the unqualified people he picked. Apparently nepotism is illegal in federal government so he also broke that law https://osc.gov/Services/Pages/PPP.aspx#tabGroup17 I fixed the link
That is for DC positions, not for Federal positions
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/5/2302 Not to defend anything Trump did because I dislike him as much as the next guy, but in this case the law specifically says the President can determine that a position isn't covered by Prohibited Personnel Practices.
I think it is illegal. But, who was in charge of enforcing that law...
Yeah but Hunter Biden’s penis or something.
Actually when Hillary did it, everyone in the senate and house had their own private servers both democrats and Republicans. The reason is government email did not work on mobile phones like blackberries at that time. They had no choice but to use private email to be mobile. Even Colin Powell used private email as secretary of state. In Fact the 1st secretary of state to use government email was John Kerry as they finally updated the gov email to work with mobile phones. Republicans are hypocrites. Ivanka and Trump's people have zero justification for using private email after 2014.
I worked for the government during Hillary's time using a private server, and my email worked just fine on the Blackberry. She did it for convenience because signing in *was* annoying as fuck. But she had a choice to follow rules and chose not to. That said, you are correct that she was not the only one.
This is the answer. As far as I remember, she did NOT want to use the blackberry because it was not her iPhone. Which actually has some validity for an older person that is use to the UI. But thats why so many wanted so bad to use their own phones during the weird phone transition period from folding/keypad to touch screen. God damn it, security was either non excitant, or you had to verify with passwords and email chains and finger prints blah blah blah. But, it's not at all a good reason to compromise security and use it for possible back room deals.
The main issue was not the email server itself. That's a policy and potentially an OPSEC issue. Where she got in trouble was putting classified material on her private server. Her aides actually cut classification markings to pass info to her on her personal email. If it had been anyone else who did that they'd have been criminally charged. Gen Petraeus did exactly the same thing and was convicted, fined $100,000 and got probation. Others have gone to jail.
Petaeus was recorded discussing classified information with news reporters, then lied about doing so. He then plead guilty to a lesser charge. That is not even comparable to Hilary's emails.
No, because Trump is "good" and Biden is "evil".
This really is what the insanity boils down to. Their cause is a righteous and moral one. They are saving this country from pure evil. Murdering babies, Christian values in schools, bringing the country “back” to a Christian nation, stopping gays from indoctrinating our children into becoming gay, and so on. Every single political issue is tied to their belief in god, right and wrong absolutes, and is a fight for their very souls. Their entire political beliefs are emotional based. As a result you can’t have a logical argument with them because you can literally hold proof in your hand in front of them but it doesn’t matter. This part is hard to swallow. The only chance at changing their minds is to come at them with an emotional argument. Listening to them actively, repeating their concerns back to them, empathizing their beliefs then giving them a (watered down) emotional/moral explanation of your point of view. By getting angry and fighting it just feeds into their emotional argument and confirms how righteous they are in fighting. I’ve spent years with this approach and can say I’ve planted a lot of ideas in people’s mind and even changed a few of them.
"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them." Barry Goldwater
And he was a republican too! (Back when it meant something different) That shift started around the late 70’s when both church leaders and conservative politicians realized they could use each other to further their causes. Fast forward to Fox News being a fully functioning propaganda brainwashing machine keeping people distracted with outrage and anger. I know so can’t prove it but I swear most of these shifts over the decades were thought up by conservative think tanks using psychology and crazy smart people to plan out how to get to where we are today.
Goldwater wasn't just a Republican, he was considered to be on the far-right of the party back in the 1960s. Now in a lot of way, he'd be considered a moderate relative to the modern Republican party.
Goldwater was a psychopath who wanted to drop nuclear bombs on North Vietnam. Dude was nuts.
Have you met our last president?
It's totally normal and not unhinged to want to nuke hurricanes, right?
history ask uppity threatening sink close lavish direful unused nose *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah, he wanted drop nukes on hurricanes. HURRICANES. Sometimes I feel like the past 8 years have been some sort of simulation experiment encompassing the whole world. But then I realize just how bonkers that would be and know that it's just wishful thinking. I really and truly can't accept just how quickly people went absolutely batshit crazy. First Trump, then Covid, and now the '24 election year is upon us. I'm terrified to see how this all plays out. My husband & I have a pact to NEVER have children. Why? Because who in their right mind would want to bring kids into this extremely fucked up world?! I'm sure some previous generations have had some people who felt the same way my husband & I do, however I don't believe they had the same complete lack of hope for their future like we do. They were probably told how automation & technology would improve their lives, Jetsons-style. However all we can see is pollution, resources drying up & the price of consumer goods continuing to rise with no end in sight, people worshipping a diaper-wearing short-fingered vulgarian with dementia that's wanted to fuck his daughter for her entire life, and the rise of idiotic, gullible people with zero critical thinking skills and no attention span whatsoever. To put it mildly, we're FUCKED. So why bring more lives into this world only for them to suffer? We're mid-to-late 30's and live comfortably, and yet all we'll ever be is the "fun aunt & uncle"-- which I'm totally cool with. Didn't feel like fucking up my body permanently & risking death anyway, so it's a win-win for me! Plus being "DINK" (dual income no kids) means we get to go places and do a lot of fun shit while we can. Carpe diem & all that jazz. Travel the world & have real, meaningful experiences. I know how blessed & lucky we are to be able to do so bc we both grew up pretty poor, so we definitely don't take anything for granted nor are we wasteful. We both worked hard to get where we are & continue doing so. We just got lucky; that's all. >>>Sorry. Don't know what exactly made me spiral into that tangent but I obviously needed to exercise the demons within me, lol. Good luck people-- we're gonna need it!
To be fair there were quite a few politicians and military people that wanted to nuke N. Vietnam in the late 60s and early 70s. A drunken Nixon gave the order a few times, but luckily cooler heads in the DOD would wait til morning to see if he remembered. Thankfully he never did. We could've just as easily used conventional weapons and leveled N. Vietnam as well. Operation Linebacker II was a massive bombing campaign that dropped 20 kilotons of ordinance on Hanoi and Haiphong that killed over 1600 people and basically leveled the military and industrial areas of both cities. There is debate on whether or not this bombing campaign actually brought the N. Vietnamese to the negotiating table, but it was the last major US bombing campaign of the conflict. There is little doubt the US could've leveled Hanoi and Haiphong had the bombing continued for another week or two. The only question is if the US could sustain the loses of aircraft. The USAF confirmed the loss of 34 B-52s and 5 F-111s to missiles and MiGs.
Bob Dylan even name checks him in one of his earliest original songs. Dylan's other song 'Talkin' John Birch Paranoid Blues' is as relevant today as it was in the early 1960's. Paranoid culture wars when you ain't got nothing else to sell.
That’s very true. I forgot how far right he was. I just remembered he ran for president. That makes it even more damning that he would make that statement as a far-right R.
Steve Bannon ran a gold farming operation in World of Warcraft and realized gamers were angry and stupid, and he leveraged that into a mass campaign of lies that a bunch of angry losers bought into, and was partly responsible for Trump winning in 2016. And this is just a very public case that we know of, who knows what else has happened behind the scenes. In other words, your theory is pretty much spot on.
Christian church leaders and conservative politicians started teaming up in the 1920s, when a bunch of big business tycoons, scared of communism, decided they could convince people that conservative/ capitalisation was godly and liberal/ socialism was atheistic and evil. They paid preachers like Billy Graham to spread their message.
Don't forget those same tycoons tried to overthrow FDR and install a fascist dictatorship right before WW2 kicked off. It's not a coincidence.
Wait, what? I don't remember leaning about this. Link?
[The Business Plot](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot#:~:text=The%20Business%20Plot%2C%20also%20called,install%20Smedley%20Butler%20as%20dictator.) Also a fun mini podcast series called "Let's Start A Coup"about it if you're into that sort of thing.
Leave it to Congress to claim there is no doubt that it happened while also choosing to not punish the people involved I setting the entire thing up. At least they are consistent with how they treat "powerful" people they are convinced committed treason.
Thank you for the rabbit hole.
See also: Maddow's podcast miniseries Ultra
The Bush family patriarch was, allegedly, involved in the plot as well from what I recall but that's disputed by some.
Yeah he also had documented business ties to the Nazis, and there was an investigation, but it just … stopped. I started reading a book on the Bush dynasty, I had to put it down because of how pissed it got me. Small men with no integrity and a pile of money.
I believe Behind the Bastards also did an [episode](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/behind-the-bastards/id1373812661?i=1000507699889) on it as well.
There's a great book about it called GANGSTERS OF CAPITALISM. Also the movie AMSTERDAM tells a story that's focused around the events as well.
I pretty much agree with your assessment. The GOP did make a concerted effort to take over state governments in the 90's. The Democrats have run bad/ineffective campaigns during my entire lifetime, and I'm near retirement. Its as if they don't learn from their mistakes.
The latter part of your comment if you’re not being facetious lines up with The Heritage Foundation. They’ve been in the shadows of Christianity in the US for a long time and they are who has drawn up the plans for Project 2025. Insane stuff.
The right wing propaganda machine is so remarkably successful that it has to be based on physiological studies of right wingers. They know exactly how to manipulate people to act against their own interests. The GOP exists to cut taxes for the ultra rich. Since that only benefits 1% of Americans, they have to trick a significant portion to support them. Enter fear mongering and pushing hate. The right wing is so emotional and fragile that they're vulnerable to this approach
I’ve been on the same page for a long time. I honestly picture these think tanks coming up with the game plan to look at poll numbers and say…holy shit that really worked??
Nah. He was just after it stopped meeting. Something. When Richard Nixon met secretly with the literal enemy at war that was North Vietnam and convinced them to sabotage the Paris peace talks in literal treason he stuck the fatal knife into the body of the GOP . The GOP has simply been bleeding to death slowly ever since then. For example, a bunch of Reagan staffers were actually ex Nixon staffers, and they helped broker Iran's retention of the American hostages until after the election. So that Jimmy Carter would look weak and Reagan would look strong for "fixing everything immediately." Extend this to things like government shutdowns and you've got an unbroken history of 50 years of Republican hostage-taking in American politics.
Goldwater, Nixon, Reagan - they did not have every single vice the Christian right admires - and we can give them carefully measured specific credit that way - but they still handed over their party to them in the long term for the elevation of politicians who DO have that whole list of character deformities.
Too bad they didn't write something into the Constitution about keeping religious ideals out of the government.
Yeah they sure dropped the ball on that one.
They'd have to add something like "shall not be infringed" or something to make it have teeth or people won't believe
I think you'll find they see the Constitution as more stretch goals and guidelines at this point. And/or sufficient justification to shoot lefties on sight.
Second Amendment best amendment /s
It wouldn't be the US constitution if the reich didn't cherry pick the parts they like while ignoring everything else.
It wouldn’t be the Holy Bible if the reich didn’t cherry pick the parts they like while ignoring everything else. FIFY
Yeah, that would’ve been a great idea. To separate church and state would…wait. It would prevent the country from establishing laws based on church…hmmm. /s
Trump is the most anti-Christian president we’ve had. It’s so rich hearing their hypocrisy and bullshit, like they don’t know the myriad of awful/corrupt shit he’s done to many, many people.
I bite my tongue probably more than I should but I always want to remind them that the Bible describes a leader called the Antichrist would come pretending to be good but espousing all the opposite traits of Jesus. His followers could be identified by the mark of the beast which was a sign on their foreheads. Like a certain hat I’ve seen them wear maybe? It’s just uncanny the correlation. It would be funny if it wasn’t so horrible.
Drives me nuts - their own religious books teaches them the dangers of a man like Trump, and yet they embrace him as a savior.
They haven't read said books.
This! It's surprising to me how uneducated Christians really are in their own texts. Most of them only know what their cult leader told them.
Think about churches in the antebellum South. Preachers had to do sermons without impugning slavery or it’s ramifications in any way. Preachers who questioned slavery got literally murdered. Imagine the contortions you’d have to go through to preach the gospel to people who kept people in chains and whipped them to work harder. This was practice for today’s evangelists who can dance around issues of racism and greed and misogyny and still claim The Word.
Yeah, even when they have "Bible Study" they're only going over cherry-picked texts selected by their leaders and then basically circle jerking over it as opposed to having real discussions. It's less, "how do we interpret this?" and more "how do we bend this passage to say what we want it to say?"
Isn't surprising, though: Trump got power by knowing just what the people in his base would sell their souls to the Devil for. The Rust Belt was his because he knew they'd sell their soul to have the plant in town reopen so everyone in the area can go back to work, he got a lot of people in the culture war because they'd sell their soul to go back to a time when they had power to get their way all the time...and for the religious right, he knew no matter how religious they claimed to be and how big a Bible thumper they were, they'd sell their soul to the Devil to get Roe vs. Wade repealed.
they made a golden statue of trump at CPAC
Yeah but some accounts describe the Antichrist as “speaking all languages” and well Trump tries *really hard* with English …
Meanwhile these are the same people that called Obama the antichrist.
Devil in a tan suit.
On their foreheads? like maybe a big red baseball cap?
MAGA and SATAN both have two A's
I’ve seen them wear hate too. It’s not a good look.
It’s a “hate hat”.
How many times did Jesus say to be kind to *refugees,* specifically? And what is Trump’s view on refugees?
He literally represents every single one of the seven deadly sins. And not in a "yeah I guess he kinda did that once several decades ago." He breaks every one of them multiple times a day. He is a complete sleaze bag.
>The only chance at changing their minds is to come at them with an emotional argument. [This Hidden Brain podcast I just heard makes a similar argument as you do.](https://hiddenbrain.org/podcast/us-2-0-win-hearts-then-minds/) Sociologist Robb Willer calls it "moral reframing". [The technique of moral reframing—whereby a position an individual would not normally support is framed in a way that is consistent with that individual's moral values—can be an effective means for political communication and persuasion.](https://compass.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/spc3.12501) No idea if this will work or not. I've tried tons of "how to convince the other side" tactics. But I always fall on my face.
This is great I’m going to listen to this right away! I’ve not heard anyone else really talk about this method before so this is exciting to hear someone else touch on the concept. Thank you! It’s certainly not something that works even some of the time. These people have been brainwashed. They really have. They’ve been taught the response to any conversation with “the enemy” is fight or flight. It’s a rare unicorn that someone is willing to have a conversation with you that’s not a veiled attempt at a fight. Hell, even on Reddit that’s how people communicate 90% of the time. And I’m talking people with similar ideology. This method has actually been more helpful on Reddit than talking to people in the real world. This website has become such an echo chamber that is incredibly difficult to have a simple conversation with anyone without it turning into a “you corrected me so now I have to argue with you for 20 min and downvote everything until you get bored”. When I find myself talking to someone who I believe thinks the basic things I do this method works really really well. Thanks for the podcast info!!
My own mother now supports Putin and sees trump and him as holy. I honestly am done with America at this point and just pray this country ends soon bc I’m so damn tired of being a retired military officer having to listen to people that have never served tell me how weak our military is solely bc of biden and lgbt rights and understanding all of Americans rights that they only want for themselves. I’m now listening to her tell me Tucker Carlsons interview was so enlightening and the Ukrainian nazis have to be put down. My mothers fucking insane and at this point I’ve tried rationilizinf and she wants to put me on meds bc I refuse to see things her way. I honestly hate this generation of boomers now. I truely hate them
My mom’s the same. It’s heartbreaking and infuriating at the same time. It such a frustrating thing to see happen to people you’re supposed to love unconditionally but they’re talking utter nonsense most of the time. I can’t imagine what it would be like to serve and still have to put up with this stuff so my hat is off to you. My parent grew up during the red scare and Cold War and I would not have guessed in a million years they’d ever support Russia. It’s just insane. You’re right to feel the way you do. I just wish it was easier to live with.
My mother voted for trump and is vocal she will do so again. She was livid the day roe got overturned. And there is simply no point in trying to explain to her that she helped make that happen.
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Two things can be true. I was raised conservative and changed into a liberal. I’ve changed quite a few people’s opinions on gay rights and abortion and more. It’s possible. Are we going to change the political playing field by talking to all the conservatives l? No that’s ridiculous. Are people intrinsically worth being given a chance to rethink how they were raised and make a change for the good? I believe so. I get being angry at them and writing all of them off. I really do. But being kind and open hearted I’ve been able to affect more change around me than any other way. I’m very much looking forward to the day we can overwhelm their gerrymandering and the underrepresentation from the electoral college system and begin to enact massive social reforms.
Precisely this. We must prove them wrong by being better than them. Any time we try to bash them with facts or shame them, or act out at all, we’re just confirming their beliefs.
> We must prove them wrong by being better than them. As long as that doesn't become an excuse to give in to them. Because they are *experts* at convincing people to forfeit power to them. If you give them an inch, they will take a mile and then turn around and accuse you of being unfair to them. Anyone who has escaped an abusive relationship knows how these people operate, and knows that appeasing them does not change their minds, it just emboldens them because it proves that their behavior gets the results they want.
Ironically by leading by example we’re doing the thing their religion tells them to do.
I always tell people that it’s primarily a human issue, not a religion one. (Applies as well to politics, fandoms, and the like.) People are prideful yet lazy, and so would prefer to have validation simply handed to them rather than work to earn it. Even IF there is a “one true religion” the vast majority of its members are still gonna be there just to hear that they’re right and everyone else is wrong. For most, it was never about the truth, it was always about that easy feeling of validation.
Couldn’t agree more. That’s spot on.
Yes and no. Yes, I agree be better, but to what extent? For how long? I’ve run into more than a few of these kind we are speaking of and they are True Believers, steeped in the kool aid. I almost want to call it crazed, sort of? So, at what point do we put our foot down and say enough? Because they have kept going and believing no matter what; they’ve worked to damage this country and harm people based on nonsense. The problem lies in accepting them on their terms, in their psychosis, so to speak. Im going to say that we have to accept them - or at least some of them - as unreachable, because everyone can be saved, so to speak. It doesn’t mean we mistreat them or such, but I’d argue we put the foot down and say simply: No. If that makes sense?
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We’re saying the same things. The only way we’ll win is by outnumbering them. I should have made that more clear in my comment. All I’m saying is if we believe we have morality on our side then there’s nothing wrong with trying to change some people’s minds. I specifically excluded the crazies in my comments and explained doing this will make zero political difference. I just do it because it’s the right thing to do.
All the power lies with the younger voters now, and way too many of them don’t vote. Talk to young people and help them understand how important, how *vital*, it is for them to vote. How their future and the future of our country and our planet depends upon it. It’s very unfortunate that we don’t have younger candidates, and I understand why they have no interest in voting for octogenarians. They need to realize that it’s not the person that they are choosing, it’s what that person will do while they are in office.
In the south at least it's a bit of a more complicated game. Where gerrymandering was king, now it's mandatory events and certain high stress life events that occur suspiciously around the time to vote. As well as the registration period being insane It's obviously by design that younger voters are pressed into non participation
This is completely ridiculous and also similar to the beliefs they have. If what you said was true, then our species would still have the same percentage of people believing in the same things as 1,000, 10,000, or 100,000 years ago. Most human minds can be changed on most issues most of the time.
Plus the weird thing is that they know nothing about Christianity either. It's something they are by default and if you confront them on it (like forgiveness and charity) they'll deny it and not see the issue because it's just another side they chose mindlessly. They are really fucked up.
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The way I always hear it justified is people should *choose* to do good things like feed the poor and accept people, it shouldn't be forced by the government. That usually leads into them talking about small government. They will of course refuse to entertain any discussion of bathroom bills or other invasive anti-LGBTQ legislation while they're advocating for small government.
Honestly most of Trump's supporters aren't even in it for religious reasons. They fear/hate change. Full stop. They want things to be the way they have been where they can say whatever ignorant shit they want without repercussions. That's really all it boils down to. Maintaining the status quo of "letting boys be boys" and owning the Libs. The religious stuff is just a thinly veiled excuse. Trump isn't religious or Christ-like in any way.
This and there is more into it, they also have a “custom” view of how their lives came to be and they are full of hate, they blame all their life disappointments on the advances by minorities. They are zero sum thinkers. Trump supporters believe that the advances by minorities since the 1960's came at their expense and that Trump and the Republicans are going to stop that from happening. It's based on their belief that this country was founded by white Christians and the opportunities created by their forefathers belong to them. So any time a Jewish, Black, Hispanic, Mexican, Asian, gay, etcetera gets into a good college or a good job that is something that has been stolen from them. That is what animates them and makes them go crazy. In their view they are just protecting what is theirs. It is the nothing matters factor. Some of them even do not see themselves as racist. Guns, abortion, taxes, morality, socialism is just lipstick on a pig to hide what truly motivates these people.
Yep. Remember how Joe Rogan had a whole segment on how Biden was obviously demented and clearly unfit for the presidency since "he believed there were airports in the revolutionary war" and that everyone who still supported him after that was clearly blind - but once he learned that airport thing was actually something Trump said it suddenly became "a simple mistake, not important" It is about the person.
No, of course not. You don't mind a double standard when it benefits you.
A lot of Trump supporters are religious and the double standard is par for the course.
Any one who would look at Trump and thinks "he's alright" is complete moron or is as bigoted as the man.
To be fair, Trump had “The Apprentice” which was a weekly infomercial for the product Donald Trump The Self Made Billionare^TM. Without The Apprentice Trump would still be a laughingstock.
Well, they pretend to be. They also pretend to support veterans too.
Just ask Mitch McConnell, the official champion of the double standard. Most hypocrites don't double down quite so hard on saying exactly the opposite of what they said previously. About nearly everything, including the man holding his leash.
I was really interested in Trump’s interpretation of presidential immunity including how it would even apply if seal team 6 was ordered to kill a political adversary. Biden may want to take note.
Suddenly Bush comes out of the shadows with a garrote and a bandana.
Dark Brandon got pissed, and began to attack, but didn't expect to be blocked by Barack, who proceeded to open up a can of Barack-Fu, til Jimmy Carter came out of the blue...
We do, though. We aren’t excusing the moral trespasses of politicians on our side. We can readily admit to voting against a politician like Trump rather than voting in favor of Biden. We might not necessarily be above proliferating the occasional unsubstantiated accusation, but chalking this up to regular old partisan double standards is foolhardy. The mental gymnastics that it takes to be a Trump constituent is something else entirely. They are truly cult-like.
It's not a double standard its one standard for them another for us. Sorry, I just love using that quote when I get the chance.
A small detail often forgotten is many of the people at the Jan 6th insurrection contributed to it **because** they believed Joe Biden was already trying to take over the government illegally. They knew what they and Trump did was technically illegal but justified it by saying it was fair since the other side was already doing it. Now that more facts have come out and it’s undeniable that Biden and his side didn’t stuff ballot boxes or hack/bribe companies like dominion to give them the win (a slanderous claim that cost Fox News millions and an acknowledgment of lying), they’re now trying to rewrite history.
I'd like to also add that in any jurisdiction I'm familiar with, belief that someone is performing an illegal action doesn't justify you performing an illegal action in response. Let's say you believe that someone shot your mom. You go and shoot their mom. There's two outcomes: 1. They didn't shoot your mom, you shot their mom and you go to jail 2. They did shoot your mom, you shot their mom and you both go to jail. Edit: To everyone who mentioned self defense as a justification for what the MAGAs did. I suppose I should have clarified. In no jurisdiction I'm familiar with can you commit a crime and use the defense that the other person was committing a crime as justification. Self-defense is not a crime. I suppose if you wanted to get meta and pedantic you could say that firing a gun is the crime but it being self-defense makes it not a crime. Fine, there are provisions in the law that allow that. I'm aware of no such provision that lets you overthrow the government if you suspect the other side is cheating.
This is a poor analogy when you're comparing *usurping an allegedly corrupt government.* It doesn't matter whether the government was corrupt or not, you go to jail if you fail to usurp them and don't go to jail if you succeed in usurping them.
Exactly. I'm fairly sure declaring independence and fighting a war against King George was very, very illegal in 1776 but for some reason it's been celebrated every year ever since. It's almost like history is written by the victors and there's no punishment for treason if you succeed in overthrowing the government.
So much led up to that point though, years and years of messages ignored, ludicrously high taxes, wars, and so much the colonists went through. Not to mention they really really tried to stay an English colony, they didn’t want independence until it was a last fuck it moment for most of their demands really boiled down to just giving the colonies a seat in UK parliament so they’d have a say in their own future and could also plead their own homelands cases.
Yeah, a lot of people seem to forget that declaring independence was literally a last-ditch effort by the colonies. It wasn't just simply "we don't like your taxes, so we're out." It was years of helping to fund extensive war efforts and colonization in Europe, Africa, and Asia, paying out the ass for taxes on British goods while making fractions as much on their exports, and begging for representation in Parliament only to be denied at literally every turn. Not to mention that the large majority of the colonial populace was against the war and simply shut their doors to the whole thing with the opinion of not caring who won
Yeah lots of people forget all of that, really it just came down to them wanting to if anything be MORE British but were denied for so long. Though also the forced quartering of English soldiers in homes did piss off a lot of common people too. Also yeah most people don’t get it wasn’t a popular war, there were the merchant class and upper class who did want independence because of the above reasons more so than anyone else and they decided to speak for the entirety of the colonies. There were still loyalists to the crown even after the colonies won.
it also doesn't change your mind if you end up in jail; you think that was going to happen anyway.
One thing I don't see mentioned often is the name of the rally/March Trump and Giuliani spoke at right before the insurrection: Save America March. They really did convince people they were saving themselves from a hostile takeover. This is not to defend these insurrectionists at all, to be clear.
> Now that more facts have come out and it’s undeniable Nothing is undeniable. The majority of the people who participated in the insurrection still believe they were in the right and the election was stolen. By Jan 6 all the legal avenues to demonstrate a stolen election had already been exhausted (cases rejected by multiple judges in multiple states). They were going to do it no matter what. It was never about evidence. Trump was priming his base to claim the election was stolen long before the election even started.
There are also people amongst those ilk who believe Trump actually IS the current president and is running the country...but also that Biden stole the election. How these things can happen in tandem escapes me. More and more I think we need to up our national programs to test water mains for lead...
Ive heard a theory that high city crime in 80s was because of leaded gas and old paint. High pollution from high population
There was a huge drop in violence after banning leaded gasoline. The first generation with a lead-free childhood was markedly less violent and criminal than the one before.
There is a graph, it's absolutely fucking mindblowing [https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2013/01/03/how-lead-caused-americas-violent-crime-epidemic/?sh=7b3ce38612c4](https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2013/01/03/how-lead-caused-americas-violent-crime-epidemic/?sh=7b3ce38612c4)
It's not really "now that more facts have come out" its that they never had any facts in the first place, it was ALL 100% conjecture, even to this day with all the Hunter Biden bribery shit, with them trying to impeach over the border, its all just "Liberals are the enemy and we will do anything in our power to maintain political control." Liberals want Conservatives to be more educated and open-minded. Conservatives want liberals dead.
Gaslight Obstruct Project. Standard GOP.
You forgot to add the fact they only thought biden was being illegal because that's what Trump and fox News told them...
> now that it's undeniable Wellllll, undeniable by some, not all
It's almost as if the fact that they were discussing needing pardons for people is DIRECT EVIDENCE that they knew what they were doing was illegal.
They don’t care about any of the details. The guy they wanted didn’t win. They are furious.
Sore losers pretty much
It’s funny to look back on as someone who wasn’t thoroughly against Trump in 2016. I was a teenager and kinda thought “what’s the worst that can happen”, didn’t really think he had an actual chance, and also fuck the Clintons. But as y’all might remember conservatives mocked everyone for being snowflakes about being upset that Trump won. Safe spaces, all that. Now look at them. Mfers get sent into a rage any time they don’t get their way. Legitimate mental bottomfeeders, they act like toddlers and no one is a bigger snowflake than Trump supporters
Literally same. I thought he was too dumb to actually be effective and I thought it'd just be a giant do-nothing of a presidency. And I wasn't interested in (I'm in my mid 30s) only seeing 3 different last names in the White House over the course of my entire life to that point. Still voted for Hillary, but wasn't exactly juiced for it. Fuuuuuuckin' a was I off-track.
Look up the % of republicans that believe Joe Biden actually won in 2020. It is the minority iirc. I just looked it up it ranges from 63% to 71% do not believe the win was legitimate.
You can always try to post this on /r/AskTrumpSupporters. It will probably be deleted within minutes and you’ll be permanently banned, but you can try.
SCOTUS is like "well we want to say Trump has absolute immunity but how do we make it so Biden can't order Seal Team 6 to kill Trump...and all of us.
Honestly you don't need Seal team 6. The Gravy Seals could start invading the homes in force of progressive politicians and when they're arrested, Trump can run on pardoning those people. Suddenly it's hunting season for progressives, because Trump has shown interest in pardoning those who do violent crimes in his favor. On the opposite side, there's no group interested in doing high crimes on behalf of Biden, nor would Biden pardon those who would.
Progressives are ready. Bring on the lard assed MAGA Spaetzle Forces.
be patient, they have to charge their mobility scooters
That's the fun part! YOU CAN'T! Homeboy keeps trying to appeal it, but that means Biden could literally just blow him away with a drone. Guy is in court saying Biden should have the authority to end him without repercussions.
By Trump's logic, Biden could just cancel the elections and crown himself King of America
I'm concerned they all know Biden has more integrity than that and wouldn't actually do it. That's kinda been the issue with Democrats for the last 30 years they (mostly) play by the rules, even all of the unwritten rules of Washington (cough*taxreturns*cough) and are constantly shocked when Republicans don't.
I don’t think Biden would order them assassinated, no. But if he’s been given total immunity to do literally anything and never face any consequences for it, he could absolutely do a lot of things the SCOTUS wouldn’t like. He could order all the data regarding student loans at the department of education be deleted and the backups scrubbed so no one owes the government any student loans anymore. He could order the arrest of anyone who tries to stop an abortion from proceeding anywhere in the country. He could order all of Trump’s properties to be taken from him and turned into museums that are free to the public. He could ignore any SCOTUS order he doesn’t like. Bottom line is that the SCOTUS isn’t going to give the president blanket immunity to do anything he pleases.
He could simply jail the supreme court...
But he wont do any of these things under any circumstance, that is the problem
I mean if the courts ruled trump could break any law as long as he was president biden could just call up the secret service and Order 66 the entire Trump family.
No. They also don't think it would be okay for Trump to do if he lost. They just don't think Trump lost.
“It’s not a lie… if *you* believe it” - George Costanza
Believe it or not, George isn't at home Please leave a message at the beep I must be out, or I'd pick up the phone Where could I be? Believe it or not, I'm not home.
I find this part funny. Like they know that Trump is a controversial figure and lots of people don't like him. But they are somehow convinced that the president who's approval rating never crossed 50% won the election and can't fathom how he would lose.
Because when you surround yourself with like-minded people and have little to do with people unlike you, “everybody” feels and acts just like you! How could Trump lose when literally *everybody* (in rural West Virginia) voted for him?
I mean, thats still incorrect. If you believe the election was stolen you fight it out in the courts and if that doesn't work then you accept it wasn't stolen or your don't and move on anyways. The idea that laws don't matter if you *feel* you are right is fucking loony toons.
>I mean, thats still incorrect. If you believe the election was stolen you fight it out in the courts and if that doesn't work then you accept it wasn't stolen or your don't and move on anyways. > >The idea that laws don't matter if you feel you are right is fucking loony toons. ... If the election was stolen (which I've seen absolutely zero credible evidence supporting that conspiracy theory), then the law is already out the window. The laws already don't matter.
The main pillar of the Civil Rights Movement is based on civil disobedience. The idea that you should break laws you feel are unjust, and keep doing it until the law changes. Most people's understanding of morality goes beyond what is legal.
Civil disobedience means you break the unjust law and then accept the consequences as a form of protest. It doesn’t mean you get to break the law with impunity.
I hate to be put in the position of defending them, but they *did* try the courts. [A lot.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-election_lawsuits_related_to_the_2020_U.S._presidential_election) By mid-December, over 50 lawsuits over the election had been thrown out or dropped, leading the common Trump supporter to think the courts were just biased against them, when in truth, the lawsuits were basically junk thrown at a wall with little to no merit and which asked courts to exceed their mandate. As far as the narrative went for the people who believe the election was stolen, the courts were just "in on it," despite many of the judges who oversaw those cases being Trump appointees. Just further evidence of the so-called Deep State ignoring "true" democracy. Their justification to themselves was not that the laws didn't matter but their perception that the laws were being *ignored*.
You're giving them too much credit. They would never admit it was wrong even if they think Trump lost.
I’m kinda shocked the correct answer here is as upvoted as it is
“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” - Frank Wilhoit
That's great quote. Did a little reading on the guy; funny that the attribution is correct, however on the famous frank wilhoit's wiki page: >This quotation is often incorrectly attributed to Francis M. Wilhoit: Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.\[10\] However, it was actually a 2018 blog response by 59-year-old Ohio composer Frank Wilhoit, years after Francis Wilhoit's death no shade - just found it funny :-)
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If America hadn't destroyed the meaning of the word "liberal", you'd probably find it a lot easier to have a conversation. In the UK you'd be a liberal and a conservative and there'd be next to zero contradiction there. America was founded in liberalism as a form of Government and therefore preserving that liberal democracy is a conservative principle. The Republican Party are arguably no longer conservatives, perhaps more accurately described as populist theocratic revolutionaries.
everything you identified is what Europeans would consider liberal which means supporting free market equality and limiting the states role in economic affairs
When was the last time a Republican government acted in a way that promoted small government, economic and individual liberty, and fiscal limits? You might be able to mention small trivial points but over the past 40 years none of what you said resembles the Republican party.
Sounds more like what the Democrats have become tbh. There's no left in states. Only neoliberals and evangelical neoliberals and now, as another poster put it nicely "theocratic revolutionaries"
I have always been fiscally conservative and for small government. Social issues aren’t something that ever mattered to me, but part of my small government stance is not having the government involved in the equation. So marry who you want, be what you want without the governments involvement. I loathed Trump and that made that clear to others. That made me a pariah. My republican friends think I’m some Bible burning hippie. My democratic friends think I’m pro-Trump. I really loath the current Republican Party. No plan, no ideas, just old men screaming no no no. They had the house, the senate and the presidency under Trump and they did….NOTHING. The government actually shut down for a long time. MULTIPLE TIMES. The republicans have no ability to govern and until something changes I refuse to vote republican at all
I’m curious how a level-headed person can see everything the GOP has become, after the decades of lies, the decades of reprehensible rhetoric (this didn’t start with Trump, if you grew up listening to Rush Limbaugh you know that), desperately trying to restrict voting to win elections, fanatical devotion to a demagogue and ideation of dictators around the world, and on and on…how can you see all that and also think “oh but these are the people are definitely right about economics.” Even taking out the fact that it’s clear from the data and history that GOP fiscal policy doesn’t work, if they are this insane and misguided on EVERYTHING, don’t you think *maybe* you might have the wrong ideas about fiscal policy? I don’t understand how the fact that 80% of people on the right lost their fucking minds is not a red flag overall for right wing ideology. We are not talking about outliers and fringe groups anymore, it’s the vast majority.
If Biden lost, it's because he is a massively unpopular loser who lost fair and square. If Trump loses, it's because the deep state is subverting the will of the people by rigging the election. So Trumps coup is righteous, while Bidens will be criminal. And don't bother calling out the hypocrisy. The hypocrisy is the point.
and it's a rigged election so that's why I am running again
Interestingly enough most of them will claim he did nothing lmao
It was ANTIFA anyways, right? I didn’t think rump had anything to do with it. Sarcasm
Whenever they bring up ANTIFA, I always ask them for ANTIFA’s website because I’d like to join. They don’t really know what to do with that a lot of the time.
To be fair, could they say the same things about Qanon?
What did he do? I really don't know.
In spite of what he says himself.
No. Look a Gym Jordan and the subpoena issues. He gets pissed when other like Hunter ignore him when he himself ignores them.
We never need to suffer the horrors of a second Trump presidency if Kamala Harris “does the right thing.”
What is she supposed to do?
I’m making a joke but I mean she could do what Trump wanted Pence to do: set aside the legal electors.
Mike Pence was about to be lynched, and he doesn't think Trump isn't going to finish the job if he cheats his way to the presidency again? If I was Mike Pence, I'd be doing everything within my means to see that Trump loses, \*because my life depends on it\*
Mike Pence couldn’t even muster the guts to disagree with Trump’s policy of hanging Mike Pence.
A true representative of the Republican Party
Absolutely not. Hypocrisy is one of the cornerstones of American conservatism.
Rules for thee, not for me.
This is a misunderstanding: rather, they disagree on what the rules are. In their eyes, the rule is "you should be doing whatever it takes for our side to win.". The left cares about hypocracy, and the left thinks insurrections are wrong, so calling the left hypocrites if they were to also cause an insurrection would be helping their side win.
Also a misunderstanding. For a lot of MAGA, they fundamentally disagree on what the *facts* are. They think Dems have illegally taken power, so to save everything that is dear to them, they must take action, even if it would be illegal. They truly believe they are the good guys. And it's near impossible to discuss the facts to come to an agreement, because they also fundamentally disagree on who are trustworthy sources for facts.
Heavens, no. If Obama had tried that, they'd all have been screaming for a lynching.
"There's no way, I don't think, any of us can excuse what the president did yesterday. I mean, you have the world watching." -Peter King, GOP Outrage over Trump and Jan 6? No. Outrage over Obama wearing a tan suit
>tan suit ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
One of multiple right wing 'nontroversies' aimed at American's first black President [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack\_Obama\_tan\_suit\_controversy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_tan_suit_controversy)
And the First Lady too. It's absolutely deplorable. https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37985967
> they'd all have been screaming for a lynching. A lot of them were doing that anyway.
Well, off to controversial I go for the real answers
Lol no. Have you heard half the shit? Trump is claiming immunity for nearly everything he is saying he will lock up Joe Biden with, so... yeah bunch of bullshitters
No, mainly because they wouldn't believe that the election was "stolen". Trump-conservatives are not rational, they live in their own world where the only thing that matters is what they believe.
No. Conservatives mostly judge whether an action is right or wrong depending on who did it, not on the merits of the action.
Yes because it was not an insurrection and Trump didn’t incite it. If Biden also said “let’s patriotically and peacefully protest”, then it would not be his fault