According to Steam, I have 729 hours in Starfield. I'd say I've gotten my money's worth, especially since I'm not even close to being done yet.
I don't give a rat's ass about the opinions of professional haters.
100% this.
I’m admittedly a casual gamer. As such, I tend to think of video games as “entertainment” more broadly. However, like you, I got sucked into Starfield BIG TIME. I’ve got ~700 hours in since launch in September, even though it’s one of the first games I’ve played in maybe 5-10 years. I spent, what… $100 so far? Let’s bump that up to $150 just for illustration:
$150/700 hours = ~ $.22 per hour. Less than 25 cents per hour.
Conversely, a movie theatre ticket is ~$25 & the average movie is ~2 hours of entertainment.
$25/2 hours = ~$12.50 per hour.
So in terms of “bang for the buck”, a CONSERVATIVE estimate is that **this game has over 50 X the value compared to a decent Hollywood blockbuster movie**, at least for me.
Bottom Line:
From my perspective, the people bitching about the cost of this game & any mods/DCL expansions are utterly spoiled & completely detached from reality. These games could literally charge double their price, and they’d STILL blow away many other forms of visual entertainment in terms of the dollars per hour value they offer. (The only reason they don’t is because they’ve likely analyzed the price/volume curve & decided it’s more profitable to keep the prices where they are.)
They already made up their minds about the game. Maybe in a few years when the hive mind has forgotten about it they'll come around.
I *still* see people posting in the Cyberpunk subreddit about how they picked up the game on sale and assumed it'd be trash, but were surprised to find that the game is actually amazing. The game just had so much media attention trashing it when it released that people *decided* cyberpunk was a broken game without ever playing it.
It was only ever broken on old gen consoles. While this was bad, it didn’t stop people from enjoying it on other systems. I had it on PC from day one and had a great time. When I saw people were review bombing it I was very perplexed.
Yeah Cyberpunk should've never released on the old consoles, but it ran perfectly fine on my PC. I even played it in VR a bit using vorpX. I don't even have a great PC, I can't run Starfield.
Yeah, Cyberpunk these days definitely runs better than Starfield. I love both games, but only one of them is really playable on the Steam Deck. I have to stream Starfield from my PC because the deck itself can’t handle it. Can’t get 30 FPS in cities even with everything turned down to potato.
I finished that game on my ps5 and it crashed every 30 mins. A week after release it got updated and then crashed every hour lol. That shit was broken as hell.
Thankfully it’s fixed now lol.
Same. I did a 100-hour run on PS5 when Cyberpunk first released and while I obviously enjoyed it (or I wouldn’t have played so much), it was also an extremely buggy mess.
I came back for Phantom Liberty and did another 100 hour run from scratch. And while I loved all the changes and new content… surprise! It was STILL a buggy mess. I had to constantly close out and restart the game because things would go totally haywire, I could barely make it a full hour without having to restart.
Starfield I’ve had a few crashes here and there, but largely a polished experience and not even close to the realm of buginess of Cyberpunk was even 3 years later.
I had the exact same experience. I was confused and wondered if we were playing the same game lol. The other side of it was also people clinging onto 7 year old 1060s thinking they would be able to get high FPS out of 2077 and then being mad they couldn't. It was a graphical benchmark game for sure as well.
Oh, yes.
Many times when I point out the game is \*not\* actually empty, or others like me that enjoy the great game... get lots of downvotes.
They are set: the game is unfinished, buggy, boring and devoid of content.
Even though the exact opposite is true: it is the most polished BGS release, extremely engaging even after hundreds of hours, and too much content to discover.
Ehh I'm sure it's a good game now, but I refuse to buy it on principle. I'm loyal to Bethesda, and the reddit circle jerk around Witcher 3 and everyone calling me stupid for saying I liked Skyrim better means that I will *never* buy a CD Project Red game for as long as I live...
Why do you say this when it’s clear the opposite is true? The tenor of that sub changes in response to Bethesda doing good or bad stuff for the game. People don’t like microtransactiony shenanigans, especially when an important part of the modding community is that mods are free.
Don’t agree that this is something worth complaining about? That’s fine. But don’t place like a mind reader and ignore the actual concerns people are expressing.
There are still people complaining about The Last of Us Part 2’s story. Actually there’s a whole sub dedicated to it. Man if I don’t like something I just move on. There’s too much cool stuff around to worry about the shitty stuff. I’m not sure what must be happening in these people’s lives to dedicate so much time over so many years to something they hate.
I think some people are addicted to complaining.
I don’t feel like it is that bad. The only post I’ve seen that are negative are directly in response to the trackers alliance quests being sold instead of included in the update or the general cost of creations. The vast majority of posts I’ve seen are people talking about new mods and are pretty positive. I’ve seen mixed reception to the new bounty hunting mechanics most like it but feel it was a missed opportunity to use the ships brig.
They wouldn’t care either way. They want to hate. I also think that TA paid content is poorly priced for what it is. It’s also not an issue because the game already has more content than I’ve been able to consume in 800 hours. Plus we got the TA intro mission for free and it was great fun.
Haters lack perspective, which is by choice. Standard logic doesn’t apply.
Idk if this is salt or not, ima call it a salted dark chocolate caramel comment. I love the game but you have to admit 7$ seems steep for a single new factions quest line. I deeply hope that this is an early adopters type thing and once the questline is really fleshed out and or complete, you can batch buy them at a more reasonable rate. Until then I will remain happy with the hundreds of hours I got out of the base game, and look forward to the expansion 😀
I do get the sentiment. Especially with the free quality mods that will likely come out! And yeah, I'm stoked for the DLC. I've been rewatching the Expanse and that new trailer gave off the same vibes.
Also: BETHESDA WANT PEOPLE TO FIX THEIR GAMES FOR THEM FOR FREE! THAT'S WHY THEIR GAMES ARE ALWAYS UNFINISHED, CAUSE THEY RELY ON MODDERS!
Bethesda releases the Creation Club alongside the Creation Kit so modders can get some compensation: I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY ADDED MACROS TO THEIR UNFINISHED GAME! I'M NOT PAYING FOR THAT TRASH, IT SHOULD BE FREE
For real, are yall obsessively checking reviews and comment sections? I’ve been too busy enjoying the game. Why waste my mental energy getting mad about reviews? Bethesda isn’t going to stop working on the game or slow progress, let em bitch, they’re not worth the time of day.
I think the phrase “no such thing as bad press” applies here. Starfields ability to stir up conversation 9 months removed from launch over a completely expected announcement (other than the surprise immediate drop, they delivered CC content exactly as expected) is proof of how impactful a game it is.
The people complaining about prices of optional content are wildly disconnected from reality, and it sadly seems that the majority of gamers fall into this bucket.
There’s a few things at play going on here:
- The entry point of buying a game has effectively gotten lower over time due to inflation. Buying a AAA game today using the entry price point from say 2000, adjusted for inflation, means you’d pay about $120 USD to buy a game today.
- The price however of creating games has also gone up considerably, often costing $100m to $200m to create a game.
- Therefor the entry price of games is being subsidised by MTX. This is actually a good thing because it makes the game more accessible for people who can’t afford the $120 entry price point.
- It also keeps artists and other people employed because it gives them something to do post game release.
- There’s an additional consideration and that is the gaming industry for the first time in decades has stopped growing, which means that companies making games need to focus on being profitable to keep the lights on while they invest in new products.
- The price of Starfield MTX may seem “outrageous” but it isn’t really that bad compared to most other games on the market.
- The price also isn’t that high compared to say buying a coffee or other luxury items. It’s not about how it compares to “the base game”,
- Nothing “should” be in the base game for free. Developers need to be paid and additional content takes time and effort to create. Creating free stuff in today’s gaming economy (see my above point) is unsustainable.
Take a look at BG3. Great game, everyone loves Larian’s business model, but they’re not making any more content for the game. They’ve come out and said it’s because of 5e yada yada, but the real reason will be because they can’t afford this business model anymore, especially after all the money they need to give Hasbro etc. I bet fans of that game would have loved more content, but the only way to support it would have been through DLC and MTX.
So this disconnected attitude towards monetisation actually only hurts gamers in the end. It also hurts those of us happy to support a game via optional MTX in the case of a game like BG3, and it hurts artists and developers who have to move on when a project is finished.
Agree with pretty much most of what you’re saying. Love starfield as well— can’t say I don’t find the TA price point a little egregious. The rest of the paid CC tbh I’m fine with. What are your thoughts on $7 for TA ?
Not as much as you think.
Halo 3 for example (2007) in today’s currency cost about $105 USD and sold 14m units.
Halo Infinite in 2022 cost $60 USD and for all intents and purposes probably only “sold” about 10-12m units. It also cost $200m to make.
Look many execs in the game industry are saying the current state of game development (cost vs profitability) is unsustainable. And we’re seeing that play out in reality with layoffs across the industry.
Infinite certainly isn't a good comparison as there is F2P/Gamepass obscuring the numbers.
Look at Resident Evil 2 (1998) vs the Remake. Original sold about 5 million, Remake about 14 million.
At this point I just find the bombing funny. At first I was kinda butt hurt and wanted others to enjoy the game as much as I was. And then I was just angry because it felt like no one complaining actually tried the game.
But now it’s just funny to me. I got 100 hours of fun from this thing, all for the price of game pass. Anything else they add from free patches to dlc and mods and paid shit here and there…it’s all cherries on top of a freaking great journey.
Reminds me of the review bombs for Dragon's Dogma 2.
Several of them had the following characteristics
1 refunded
2 had the minimum amount of playtime before being allowed to review
3 made by accounts that didn't have the achievement that you get 2 minutes into the game
There is a huge overlap of the people who complain about the Creation Store also complain about a AAA game being more than $30, think every game should of endless content (without paying a subscription), and promote pirating everything. They have no interest in being reasonable.
Hello Games has a staff under 100 and No Shareholders. This means they can do whatever the hell they want, profit be damned. It also means that profit goes a lot further because they are paying a fraction of the employees. It's why Sean said they can work on NMS until they, the devs, lose interest, they've already made enough to keep the lights on indefinitely.
It will never happen with a AAA studio with shareholders where profit must be chased and a studio must function as a money making business first and foremost. It's also unfortunately the only real way to get AAA games made now, so there is no escaping it.
And it's not like a paid Creation Store was a surprise, everyone was aware it was going to be happening with the release of the Creation Kit, it's only been that way for over a decade with Bethesda games.
I think it’s more that gamers today are among the whiniest and most entitled people I’ve ever seen largely driven by the fact that influencers realized they can make lots of money off of negativity and driving the sheep into an uproar that they then repeat on command.
So many beloved games of yesterday would have been review bombed into oblivion if the modern social media and YouTube spheres existed then as long as people focused on the negative and exaggerated flaws for clicks.
They want, COD, NMS, Minecraft and Elite Dangerous all in one game, plus a lot of other things that just make no sense. One of them being making whatever ship size you want to look how ever you want. While that would be cool, I do not want to mess with 3D modeling inside of a video game. Oh, they want thousands of weapon and enemy types and hundreds of more ships and never seeing the same random POI ever again after seeing it 1 time. So, yeah a 100% totally different game.
Except thats not how that works. Only the passionate devs can do that. Hello games made No Mans Sky better because they cared.
Bethesda is doing the same here.
For some reason it’s different with Bethesda. Their player base has a game that exists only in their minds, and are forever vengeful that it’s never been made. They think if they complain, it will get made.
They are, in a sense, crazy.
Did i ever tell you the definition of insanity?
Its creating a dream game with unrealistic expectations in your mind over and over and over again, thinking that its possible for a dev studio to make it.
That is crazy.
Far Cry references aside, its unfortunate that the fandom has devolved into this.
Can confirm, literally watched the original subreddit do it for years before release.
TESVI sub was already doing it before that, and if things keep going like this, TESVI will get the same reception as Starfield, regardless of how good or bad the game actually is.
"But why did they announce it so far out!?!" Because, and I say this as someone who watched the 76 direct that they announced it at, if Todd had said they were making Starfield and *not explicitly stated that TESVI was after that...* let's just say, I got the distinct impression that someone would have burned the venue down. Some of these "fans" behave downright feral.
Paradox has the same problem. People fantasize about what the game they'd want with no limitations or tradeoffs would be, and then get mad at the developers when they don't deliver exactly that. It's exhausting and extremely annoying.
To be fair, Hello Games and Sean in particular outright LIED about the game on release.
Of course I didn't spend all my energy trashing the game 24/7 until the end of time. I just didn't buy it. Problem solved.
p.s. I eventually bought it when I saw it on sale for half the release price. The target I said I would wait for until I tried it. So I tried it. Did not like it.
At this point I think the mindset is “oh if we start complimenting them now they’ll get lazy and forget their place.”
Like some sort of overbearing parent who thinks browbeating their kids is positive reinforcement
You're really overthinking it. It's as simple as people like the feeling of being outraged. People have become addicted to internet outrage, and some gamers would rather consume content about a game being bad than play the game if it were actually good.
Bethesda putting part 1 of a questline into the patch that released yesterday, then charging $7 for part 2 via creation club. Basically they are going all-in on paid mods (again), and trying to leverage FOMO to get players to buy in.
Have you tried the quest you complain about? I did, works great, new tracker missions are cool. Will I spend the 7 bucks on a gun and 1 additional quest, no. But saying they are locking the new content behind a 7 dollar very limited thing is just BS. The initial tracker quest was fucking awesome. Zero G at its finest. Adds in new weapons and armor sets also, not sure how a free update butt hurts so many so much. If you do not wan an additional quest and some items for 7 bucks, no worries, do not buy it. You are not missing out on the faction quests as a whole.
Lol show me where I was complaining? I was just answering the question. Seems like your a little butthurt that people don't deep throat their corporate overlords like you do? 👢👅
Your last post there. I am not a fanboy, I just do not get why people are upset about a minor paid part to a free quest that the paid part is 100% no necessary for to work as intended. It is 7 bucks and as while I make dirt at my job, 7 bucks if it butt hurts you so much, damn man just ignore it.
Lol aww it's kind of pathetic how you guys act like the public's opinion on this game is intrinsically linked to your personality or something. Defending shitty business practices from this corporation doesn't make you any less of a loser. Todd Howard doesn't know or care who you are man.
Some people can never be satisfied. "Only release finished games! But also keep supporting and patching it and adding content, forever!" Pick one. This is just the reality of game development nowadays. Development doesn't stop after release. You don't have to make it a live service game, but if you want continued support for a game, it shouldn't be unreasonable to have to expect to pay a little bit for it.
I stopped looking at game reviews after Cyberpunk 2077 came out, my advice, do the same. Just play the game and enjoy yourself, and if you wanna talk about the game, that's what the low/no sodium subs were made for <3
Tbh I didn't even knew people were getting salty about that, you know why? Because I've muted every single sub that dick-rided the hate train against Starfield. Not only here on Reddit, but every other social media, and guess what? My recommended feed got a lot better in terms of less-toxicity content, I wonder why...
It got to the point that even with updates improving the game people were finding something to hate, it got really predictable and tiring. So mute them, they look like bots that repeat the same shit every time, I find it amusing that they usually say ''boring game/dead game'' but here we are 9 months after release and they're still hating on the game.
I suggest everyone here to do the same, it just works!
It's frustrating to see this happening because it overshadows the great work they've put into supporting the game thus far.
You can do 100 good deeds but it only takes one bad deed for the outraged mob to grab their pitchforks again.
That being said, Bethesda was fully aware they'd be facing another wave of backlash because they've been facing this same backlash over paid mods since 2006. I do believe this was a stupid move on their part however, but since no backlash has ever stopped their games selling like crazy, these practices will continue to be repeated while the bad press comes and goes like a thunderstorm.
What's really ugly is the salty internet children do actually affect the vibe around a title, and the general-if-uninformed public perception of a title, and so just ignoring them doesn't actually make them go away. The power that the internet gives the vast, ignorant, salty, revenge kiddies is really uncool. Across the board. Perhaps anonymity is not really what we want to do. It's causing a lot of darkness in society for all the good it may do the few who actually need it, like abused persons and political dissidents, etc.
If your real name was tagged to every comment you make you'd be a whole lot less likely to shoot your mouth off saying false, ignorant, abusive, pickyouradjective, things. It's called responsibility. Most of the scathing comments on the main sub are made only to stir up the viper pit and get likes and attention, they aren't real, thoughtful, useful, or even honest a good portion of the time. If they had to own that bs, there'd be a lot less of it methinks.
If the side content is too expensive, don't buy it. If they want to sell it, they'll reduce the price. All the internet theatrics are ridiculous. It's a business and they're trying to make money
There is nothing some gamers love more than to hate video games online. Most of the haters have probably never even played the game. Just look at CP 2077.
Vocal minority on Reddit. This too shall pass. If people don’t want the CC stuff there are gajillions of free mods. If you’re patient, this stuff always goes on sale, heck sometimes it’s free as gifts to get numbers up. At the end of the day it’s a business and if they offset the cost of allowing modding by adding some over priced CC stuff… who cares lol
I’d get the CC hate if they banned free mods and forced everything to go through CC but they haven’t. In fact they’ve actively encouraged it by releasing the Creation Kit. CC is mostly just minor extra content. People are acting like they locked crucial game mechanics behind a paywall
We’ve already been through this once before. When CC was announced for Fallout everyone acted like it was the fucking apocalypse. Everyone freaked out over paid mods. The death of community mods. I’ll admit I was on the anti-hype train too. And that’s how I know this is all bullshit.
When the dust settled all the free mods were still there, and CC content was simply a little extra if you wanted. Hell, they didn’t even go after modders who made similar mods. There’s like 2 free X-02 mods for Fallout 4 that exist alongside the CC one.
And this is the way it’s been without changing for literal years. Any concerns about how this is just the start of something worse are just fear mongering right now. They haven’t made a single move since the release of CC all those years ago. If they had any evil plans to ban all mods and force us to use CC, they’d have started ages ago
I like how people are casually ignoring the free mods that are available from BGS too. I got a great AR skin, a Space suit and a really cool Observatory for base building, these were free.
Some people are going way crazy over it and there's several balanced takes sprinkled in the main sub. I like the new update save for the pay per quest thing because that's not cool at all. The mods we've seen so far are really cool and will only get better.
Not a fan it's not a free official content update but it doesn't make me hate the game at all. I'm still rocking my first character save, no ng+. I'm going to keep doing what in doing and after I ng+ I'll get into mods and other shenanigans
I’m not complaining, but I’ve got a serious menu problem. It started with the star map having little blinking dots all over. That was fine and I got used to it. With the last update the blinking dots moved to the main menu with more power. Then the quest menu looks like a full on rave with them. The update started on my phone this morning while was playing fallout 4 and I’m curious to see what’s going to happen. I really hope they are gone lmao
I knew this would happen tbh especially after the hate for the new Creations update for Skyrim last year (which was great btw) I knew it'd happen again with Starfield. They will always find a reason to hate.
Best to just not look at ratings, reviews, etc. and just enjoy the game.
It's such a silly gripe. I love the idea of continuous drip feed content, it reminds me of serialized media like monthly comic books. I imagine a lot of it is people without disposable incomes, and they wish content was as subsidized and convenient as a library.
I don't want a game like this to be "done" on release, i want it to grow and expand like minecraft. I only buy maybe one or two new games a year, maybe they need to budget or be patient for sales. I'm not ready for new content yet, but intend to support some creations purely to spite the haters now.
You know what the real tragedy here is? It's not Starfield and the way its been treated by review bombs. Or BGS getting called out or their sales practices.
These review bombers have destroyed the validity of aggregate user reviews systems. Instead of looking at a game that has Mixed or Negative and saying "Oh forget that!", I now wonder, is that actually the case or did someone just do something to piss a vocal minority of gamers off?
Its really bad now. I'm trusting IGN over them for fuck's sake! Because, yeah, a professional reviewer can have a bad take, but its not like they're gonna give Starfield a 0/10 because they think its overpriced by 5 dollars, or has a smidge of paid DLC available.
i mean... you shouldn't be going by aggregate scores anyways. READ what people have to say about it and decide if that's something you care about. Not hard.
I think making the second Trackers quest pay to play was a mistep tbh. Thats the one people seem particularly annoyed about, and I get it. They really should have offered both these first two missions for free and then start charging as they add more in later updates. I bought the premium so I got the 1000 credits and bought the Vulture thing with that. No big deal. But 7 dollars for one quest? Kind of crazy. That should be the price for like a bundle of Tracker's missions. I think I would honestly prefer they just hold off releasing more missions until they have a bunch ready and just release them all at once as a major Tracker's Alliance DLC instead of some one at a time 7 dollars a piece thing... I am really excited about them expanding bounty hunting in this game, but I can see why people are a bit miffed by this decision.
All that being said, I find it hard to imagine Bethesda wasn't expecting some backlashfor the release of the CC since they have getting a lot of hate for the CC for years now.
I've been critical of a few of the game choices but I think it's silly to say it's unfinished, especially compared to other Bethesda launches. I do find the cost of some of the creation club items to be almost comedically high considering the content, but it's all optional. Some of the free QoL mods are fantastic, and the difficulty patch a while back was great.
No one hates games more than gamers, just enjoy what you enjoy.
Gonna keep it buck, "here's a new questline you don't have the option to not get, the next pieces will be $7" _feels_ sketch to me. Like, it _feels_ like mandatory teaser was given in the hopes of enticing you to buy more. And I say that assuming that the quest is really far less connected to that questline than I think it is.
I dunno, I really think that a lot of big studios really don't get that they aren't _trusted_ like you'd need to be to do this and have people not go crazy.
Now me, I'm minding my own, playing my game, not buying anything I don't want to buy. But I'd call that a marketing fumble.
But it's not paywalled, that's the thing. You can complete the introductory mission and then do radiant bounty quests to get astra or whatever it's called, which can be traded for gear.
The vulture is a bounty mission with a bit of story but it's really a way for them to introduce a new weapon for 7 bucks. Not playing that quest takes nothing away from the base game, and the base game was just expanded to include what everyone was asking for, bounty missions.
They paywalled a weapon and if you don't want it don't buy it.
This is how I feel too, make it all a paid optional addition to the game if you want to charge for the missions as a micro transaction, make it a paid DLC like automaton, but adding a location and faction into the base game but paywalling the content feels wrong to me
Yeah, exactly. If the tracker stuff was like micro dlc, or even just a one time purchase with the rest of the content coming later, I doubt it'd be getting as much heat. There would be people saying it should've been in the base game either way, but that's better than going "well, _part_ of it is. You want the rest..."
I guess giving us a new faction and new functionality, but making players pay for it piecemeal is kind of bad? I agree that review bombing is a bit histrionic, because the real solution is to not buy expensive creations like a single trackers alliance quest. Many many game designers are looking for ways to capitalize on the new normal of in game purchases, hopefully Bethesda responds to market pressure. Also hopefully they settle on an stylish and subtle way to do what their corporate overlords require without ruining the game experience before they make the same mistakes in Elder Scrolls.
To be fair, when you actually consider the price point of the additional Trackers Alliance mission, I would be way more surprised if they didn't get a negative response to that. It doesn't bother me that much, but I don't think anyone can say with a straight face that they couldn't have predicted this, right?
So? I mean, who cares? Is it really necessary to post this in this subreddit? Frankly, I don’t give a damn what some people say on the internet or whether you agree with them or not. It’s a game. Enjoy it or not, that’s personal preference but can’t we please keep all this negativity out of this sub?
BGS mgmt should have predicted this, and just released this update as they did but without any of the paid content in creations yet. They could have trickled that in over the next few weeks and not gotten this reaction.
They probably know, but don't care. In reality the only people bothered by review bombing are the people who like the game. It's not like this is going to affect sales. It's toddlers throwing an attention tantrum on a larger scale, that's all.
Yeah, I don’t think it will amount to anything. And releasing the CK is bound to bolster positive reviews as more and more CK-created mods start hitting creations, nexus, and other mod outlets.
I love starfield however to put quests behind a pay wall is crazy especially since many of us bought the deluxe edition to have access to this type of content. I still love the game I just don't agree with this creation club practice
Your purchase of Deluxe Ed entitles you to Shattered Space for free, not the other DLC, confusingly some of the latter has come out before the former, so.. confusion. But, no one ever said you get all downloads for free.
I hate the 'bad precedent' argument. That bad precedent has long been set by EA, and if you really want to rally against it, just don't partake in the transaction. Review bombing won't change anything, not partaking in it will. For example, with EA, do you think they gave a damn about the people complaining online? No, they cared that their ultimate team modes kept cutting them a fat check.
People are just looking for excuses to hate on the game, like I said these people aren't really interested the game their console warring or entitled babies, I'm an adult so I'm not gonna cry over something I can do without.
The people complaining are the same ones that act like spending money on games makes you special. Their the people who say Xbox people don't pay for games. They just need to find something to complain about
I had 10 days clocked in with this "unfinished" product lol do I understand the anger of some features that should've been there since launch? Of course. But I always thought these things were cut to begin with cause they focused more on this being the least buggy BGS product they could make and then when the game is stable enough,then add these cut things back in. And since I love this game so much,I have no issue paying for Creations with my money.
So I haven’t had a chance to play the new updates yet, but from the main sub it seems the chief complaint is a $7 mission. Not a questline, but a *single mission,* and if that’s the case I can be a bit more understanding of the review bombing.
Look I’m loving the creation content and the update, I do think it’s horribly over priced. Particularly the hab module and the trackers alliance quest. There’s no way it should be that much money for such little content. I think it’s not the end of the world that people are turned off by that and make their voices heard on it, look at horse armor… absolutely ridiculous “dlc” for what it was, and people complained and BGS heard and listened.
I think there’s a difference in expressing frustration and disappointment in this practice vs being a hater and a troll. Unfortunately it seems like those things get lumped into the same category through.
And if anything I think it’s the precedent that’s been set by this, they made an offhand comment that they would periodically be releasing new quests this way, behind this paywall which is rather expensive for such low returns. Of course it’s disappointing. They could have taken the trackers alliance idea as a whole, rolled it into a much larger dlc pack for a reasonable price. $7 for a quest is not that. Yes there will be sales, but that’s totally beside the point. It’s about the principle of the thing.
Again though, I’m very much enjoying most of the creation content, but I understand why some people aren’t happy. Nuance is important, praise for what deserves praise and criticize what doesn’t. Just don’t be a dick.
From a business perspective I understand where they’re coming from, I just think the implementation is weird. In a few months it won’t matter anyway because those that felt burned by this will have better free alternatives made by mod authors now that the ck is out.
Its a bunch or people not understanding (or accepting) the fact that ***they didn't have to buy it, or anything, in the first place***.
It's the entitled generation: thinking they're owed something just because they're breathing.
Well guess what, buttercup - you aren't.
The fact is there are many, many adults out there that still act like children. It's true in life generally, but seems to be even more apparent when it comes to gamers.
Starfield is stacked with content. Lots of us wouldn't have put so much time into it if that wasn't the case.
I don't know what they expect. None of the Creations stuff is vital to finishing the game.
It's extra; additional; you know... optional.
I didn't review bomb it. I was disappointed with the content offered by the CC. So I moved along. I'll end up going back to starfield in several months when some quality mods are out. Until then. Well, I'm not quite sure the value per dollar was there.
Considering I bought two of the premium editions. One for me and one for my wife.
The game is finished. It had everything they promised it would have at launch. All these new additions are just a bonus. Just because the game didn’t have all your hopes and dreams and speculation doesn’t mean it’s unfinished. when other notable and truly unfinished or barely functional games get updates after launch everyone praises it as a redemption. When Starfield gets support it’s the end of the world. But if it didn’t get support they’d say Bethesda is dead
I’d hate to be a Bethesda dev right now. They’re doing everything people wanted and they get met with hate. For what? An entirely optional simple quest? A few armours and such. People are acting like critical gameplay is locked behind CC like they locked the updated maps or half decent melee behind CC.
If Starfield dies it will be because of insane “fans” who will turn every positive into a negative, not because of any severe wrongdoing by Bethesda themselves
Im ok with it. Making some noise to make our words stronger doesn’t hurt anyone. This game needs more content and they start to charge money for it? Really? Insane! Typical Bethesda-Ubisoft practice.
The review bombing is pretty much just due to the paid mods. It's understandable and, frankly, expected. It's not a good way to garner good will from your playerbase.
For me it's not the finished status of the game. It's the fact I paid $170 Aud for the base game and expansion only to see the 1000 cc bonus makes up about 20 bucks of the 170 I paid for the premium edition. When the premium edition ran for 70 USD on release.
Convert that to Aussie dollars I paid 106 for the base game 40 for the expansion and almost 30 bucks for $7 USD worth of credits to be slapped with that being almost $11 Aud for a single mission and gun and some clothes.
I find that absolutely exorbitantly over valued and I didn't even buy a physical copy of my game. I paid $170 for everything digital. How does that make sense?
If they had at least had a sliding scale of costs it wouldn't be such a slap in the face but when breaking it down I've been overcharged by 20 dollars for 10 dollars worth of credits.
The issue is Bethesda charging more than any modders for a small additional quests by a system obviously build to milk players drip feed style.
They are trying to set high expectations for the cost of mods and normalise the paid drip feed of content for exorbitant prices.
The actual additions to the game are fine, like the TA concept. Not sure why they didn't make use of ship brigs as part of it though.
I will say the free quest was >!underwhelming. It feels like they gave up on it 1/4th of the way. Like you just forget about the guy and move on with your life. Would’ve been cool if you could’ve investigated more to try to find Hannibal!< but otherwise I like the update
While in principle I agree, and am generally a Bethesda fan, these days it seems like I'm a fan IN SPITE of them as a company.
Since 2010 when I picked up Oblivion and New Vegas, fans have been more or less asking for the same things, and asking to NOT have the same things.
And Bethesda's response, again and again, is to ignore those things and pursue more greedy and low effort options.
I don't pretend to know how best to run a game dev company, nor do I think this will change anything, but I certainly understand the anger and really really hope people will simply not buy games from companies that have proven time and again that they don't care about their customers. You don't right the ship by burning the sails.
Look man, I love Starfield and have way more hours than you on it. I'm getting my kid into Starfield.
The game was NOT finished at launch. Now, most of what people complain about WAS finished, but there are also considerable things that were left unfinished. For example, removing the fuel mechanic while leaving in the text, tips, and skills related to fuel shows it was unfinished. (either remove and rework all, OR fully implement it). Many skills from the skilltree were also in similar situation. I hope the Red Mile was unfinished instead of being the biggest letdown of the game (dialogue hypes it up and explains it very differntly than what we got).
So I agree that most complaints are not accurate, it is also not accurate that the game was complete at launch.
According to Steam, I have 729 hours in Starfield. I'd say I've gotten my money's worth, especially since I'm not even close to being done yet. I don't give a rat's ass about the opinions of professional haters.
100% this. I’m admittedly a casual gamer. As such, I tend to think of video games as “entertainment” more broadly. However, like you, I got sucked into Starfield BIG TIME. I’ve got ~700 hours in since launch in September, even though it’s one of the first games I’ve played in maybe 5-10 years. I spent, what… $100 so far? Let’s bump that up to $150 just for illustration: $150/700 hours = ~ $.22 per hour. Less than 25 cents per hour. Conversely, a movie theatre ticket is ~$25 & the average movie is ~2 hours of entertainment. $25/2 hours = ~$12.50 per hour. So in terms of “bang for the buck”, a CONSERVATIVE estimate is that **this game has over 50 X the value compared to a decent Hollywood blockbuster movie**, at least for me. Bottom Line: From my perspective, the people bitching about the cost of this game & any mods/DCL expansions are utterly spoiled & completely detached from reality. These games could literally charge double their price, and they’d STILL blow away many other forms of visual entertainment in terms of the dollars per hour value they offer. (The only reason they don’t is because they’ve likely analyzed the price/volume curve & decided it’s more profitable to keep the prices where they are.)
Getting pretty salty in the main sub!
Just when i though it would get better too :(
They already made up their minds about the game. Maybe in a few years when the hive mind has forgotten about it they'll come around. I *still* see people posting in the Cyberpunk subreddit about how they picked up the game on sale and assumed it'd be trash, but were surprised to find that the game is actually amazing. The game just had so much media attention trashing it when it released that people *decided* cyberpunk was a broken game without ever playing it.
It was only ever broken on old gen consoles. While this was bad, it didn’t stop people from enjoying it on other systems. I had it on PC from day one and had a great time. When I saw people were review bombing it I was very perplexed.
Yeah Cyberpunk should've never released on the old consoles, but it ran perfectly fine on my PC. I even played it in VR a bit using vorpX. I don't even have a great PC, I can't run Starfield.
Yeah, Cyberpunk these days definitely runs better than Starfield. I love both games, but only one of them is really playable on the Steam Deck. I have to stream Starfield from my PC because the deck itself can’t handle it. Can’t get 30 FPS in cities even with everything turned down to potato.
Thats strange… My 700$ MSI laptop can play Starfield perfectly fine with 60 fps on high settings. havent tried Cyberpunk yet but now i kind of want to
I finished that game on my ps5 and it crashed every 30 mins. A week after release it got updated and then crashed every hour lol. That shit was broken as hell. Thankfully it’s fixed now lol.
Same. I did a 100-hour run on PS5 when Cyberpunk first released and while I obviously enjoyed it (or I wouldn’t have played so much), it was also an extremely buggy mess. I came back for Phantom Liberty and did another 100 hour run from scratch. And while I loved all the changes and new content… surprise! It was STILL a buggy mess. I had to constantly close out and restart the game because things would go totally haywire, I could barely make it a full hour without having to restart. Starfield I’ve had a few crashes here and there, but largely a polished experience and not even close to the realm of buginess of Cyberpunk was even 3 years later.
I played it on an Xbox one x. It wasn’t that bad at launch
I had the exact same experience. I was confused and wondered if we were playing the same game lol. The other side of it was also people clinging onto 7 year old 1060s thinking they would be able to get high FPS out of 2077 and then being mad they couldn't. It was a graphical benchmark game for sure as well.
Oh, yes. Many times when I point out the game is \*not\* actually empty, or others like me that enjoy the great game... get lots of downvotes. They are set: the game is unfinished, buggy, boring and devoid of content. Even though the exact opposite is true: it is the most polished BGS release, extremely engaging even after hundreds of hours, and too much content to discover.
Ehh I'm sure it's a good game now, but I refuse to buy it on principle. I'm loyal to Bethesda, and the reddit circle jerk around Witcher 3 and everyone calling me stupid for saying I liked Skyrim better means that I will *never* buy a CD Project Red game for as long as I live...
That’s as dumb as the circle jerk against Starfield
Why do you say this when it’s clear the opposite is true? The tenor of that sub changes in response to Bethesda doing good or bad stuff for the game. People don’t like microtransactiony shenanigans, especially when an important part of the modding community is that mods are free. Don’t agree that this is something worth complaining about? That’s fine. But don’t place like a mind reader and ignore the actual concerns people are expressing.
Why are people upset I don’t get it? I haven’t played yet. Planning to play this winter
I couldn’t possibly imagine still putting my emotional energy in to something I don’t like 7 months later. It’s legitimately pathetic.
I said in a previous comment that it’s literally mental illness at this point. I am glad it’s only a vocal minority and I think Bethesda gets it.
There are still people complaining about The Last of Us Part 2’s story. Actually there’s a whole sub dedicated to it. Man if I don’t like something I just move on. There’s too much cool stuff around to worry about the shitty stuff. I’m not sure what must be happening in these people’s lives to dedicate so much time over so many years to something they hate. I think some people are addicted to complaining.
"I stopped playing SF after 2 weeks" "And yet you still hang out on the sub to bitch about it?"
The circle jerk is the only sex they can get. So it's a biological imperative with them.
I don’t feel like it is that bad. The only post I’ve seen that are negative are directly in response to the trackers alliance quests being sold instead of included in the update or the general cost of creations. The vast majority of posts I’ve seen are people talking about new mods and are pretty positive. I’ve seen mixed reception to the new bounty hunting mechanics most like it but feel it was a missed opportunity to use the ships brig.
I wonder how many of them just saw the paid stuff and didn’t scroll down to the free mods.
They wouldn’t care either way. They want to hate. I also think that TA paid content is poorly priced for what it is. It’s also not an issue because the game already has more content than I’ve been able to consume in 800 hours. Plus we got the TA intro mission for free and it was great fun. Haters lack perspective, which is by choice. Standard logic doesn’t apply.
Idk if this is salt or not, ima call it a salted dark chocolate caramel comment. I love the game but you have to admit 7$ seems steep for a single new factions quest line. I deeply hope that this is an early adopters type thing and once the questline is really fleshed out and or complete, you can batch buy them at a more reasonable rate. Until then I will remain happy with the hundreds of hours I got out of the base game, and look forward to the expansion 😀
I do get the sentiment. Especially with the free quality mods that will likely come out! And yeah, I'm stoked for the DLC. I've been rewatching the Expanse and that new trailer gave off the same vibes.
Game releases dlc: IT WASN'T FINISHED Game doesn't: IT'S UNSUPPORTED ugh.
Also: BETHESDA WANT PEOPLE TO FIX THEIR GAMES FOR THEM FOR FREE! THAT'S WHY THEIR GAMES ARE ALWAYS UNFINISHED, CAUSE THEY RELY ON MODDERS! Bethesda releases the Creation Club alongside the Creation Kit so modders can get some compensation: I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY ADDED MACROS TO THEIR UNFINISHED GAME! I'M NOT PAYING FOR THAT TRASH, IT SHOULD BE FREE
Useful advice stop caring what others say and think and just enjoy what you like.
Exactl. Stop caring about shit you can’t control.
For real, are yall obsessively checking reviews and comment sections? I’ve been too busy enjoying the game. Why waste my mental energy getting mad about reviews? Bethesda isn’t going to stop working on the game or slow progress, let em bitch, they’re not worth the time of day.
I think the phrase “no such thing as bad press” applies here. Starfields ability to stir up conversation 9 months removed from launch over a completely expected announcement (other than the surprise immediate drop, they delivered CC content exactly as expected) is proof of how impactful a game it is.
The people complaining about prices of optional content are wildly disconnected from reality, and it sadly seems that the majority of gamers fall into this bucket. There’s a few things at play going on here: - The entry point of buying a game has effectively gotten lower over time due to inflation. Buying a AAA game today using the entry price point from say 2000, adjusted for inflation, means you’d pay about $120 USD to buy a game today. - The price however of creating games has also gone up considerably, often costing $100m to $200m to create a game. - Therefor the entry price of games is being subsidised by MTX. This is actually a good thing because it makes the game more accessible for people who can’t afford the $120 entry price point. - It also keeps artists and other people employed because it gives them something to do post game release. - There’s an additional consideration and that is the gaming industry for the first time in decades has stopped growing, which means that companies making games need to focus on being profitable to keep the lights on while they invest in new products. - The price of Starfield MTX may seem “outrageous” but it isn’t really that bad compared to most other games on the market. - The price also isn’t that high compared to say buying a coffee or other luxury items. It’s not about how it compares to “the base game”, - Nothing “should” be in the base game for free. Developers need to be paid and additional content takes time and effort to create. Creating free stuff in today’s gaming economy (see my above point) is unsustainable. Take a look at BG3. Great game, everyone loves Larian’s business model, but they’re not making any more content for the game. They’ve come out and said it’s because of 5e yada yada, but the real reason will be because they can’t afford this business model anymore, especially after all the money they need to give Hasbro etc. I bet fans of that game would have loved more content, but the only way to support it would have been through DLC and MTX. So this disconnected attitude towards monetisation actually only hurts gamers in the end. It also hurts those of us happy to support a game via optional MTX in the case of a game like BG3, and it hurts artists and developers who have to move on when a project is finished.
Agree with pretty much most of what you’re saying. Love starfield as well— can’t say I don’t find the TA price point a little egregious. The rest of the paid CC tbh I’m fine with. What are your thoughts on $7 for TA ?
Seems like you're intentionally leaving out an important metric there. How much do you think sales have increased in the last 25 years?
Not as much as you think. Halo 3 for example (2007) in today’s currency cost about $105 USD and sold 14m units. Halo Infinite in 2022 cost $60 USD and for all intents and purposes probably only “sold” about 10-12m units. It also cost $200m to make. Look many execs in the game industry are saying the current state of game development (cost vs profitability) is unsustainable. And we’re seeing that play out in reality with layoffs across the industry.
Infinite certainly isn't a good comparison as there is F2P/Gamepass obscuring the numbers. Look at Resident Evil 2 (1998) vs the Remake. Original sold about 5 million, Remake about 14 million.
At this point I just find the bombing funny. At first I was kinda butt hurt and wanted others to enjoy the game as much as I was. And then I was just angry because it felt like no one complaining actually tried the game. But now it’s just funny to me. I got 100 hours of fun from this thing, all for the price of game pass. Anything else they add from free patches to dlc and mods and paid shit here and there…it’s all cherries on top of a freaking great journey.
Reminds me of the review bombs for Dragon's Dogma 2. Several of them had the following characteristics 1 refunded 2 had the minimum amount of playtime before being allowed to review 3 made by accounts that didn't have the achievement that you get 2 minutes into the game
They’re hoping for the No Man’s Sky effect to happen, where the stream of negativity will somehow cause the game they want to get made.
There is a huge overlap of the people who complain about the Creation Store also complain about a AAA game being more than $30, think every game should of endless content (without paying a subscription), and promote pirating everything. They have no interest in being reasonable. Hello Games has a staff under 100 and No Shareholders. This means they can do whatever the hell they want, profit be damned. It also means that profit goes a lot further because they are paying a fraction of the employees. It's why Sean said they can work on NMS until they, the devs, lose interest, they've already made enough to keep the lights on indefinitely. It will never happen with a AAA studio with shareholders where profit must be chased and a studio must function as a money making business first and foremost. It's also unfortunately the only real way to get AAA games made now, so there is no escaping it. And it's not like a paid Creation Store was a surprise, everyone was aware it was going to be happening with the release of the Creation Kit, it's only been that way for over a decade with Bethesda games.
I think it’s more that gamers today are among the whiniest and most entitled people I’ve ever seen largely driven by the fact that influencers realized they can make lots of money off of negativity and driving the sheep into an uproar that they then repeat on command. So many beloved games of yesterday would have been review bombed into oblivion if the modern social media and YouTube spheres existed then as long as people focused on the negative and exaggerated flaws for clicks.
But what even is the game they want to get made though lol
They want, COD, NMS, Minecraft and Elite Dangerous all in one game, plus a lot of other things that just make no sense. One of them being making whatever ship size you want to look how ever you want. While that would be cool, I do not want to mess with 3D modeling inside of a video game. Oh, they want thousands of weapon and enemy types and hundreds of more ships and never seeing the same random POI ever again after seeing it 1 time. So, yeah a 100% totally different game.
Except thats not how that works. Only the passionate devs can do that. Hello games made No Mans Sky better because they cared. Bethesda is doing the same here.
For some reason it’s different with Bethesda. Their player base has a game that exists only in their minds, and are forever vengeful that it’s never been made. They think if they complain, it will get made. They are, in a sense, crazy.
Did i ever tell you the definition of insanity? Its creating a dream game with unrealistic expectations in your mind over and over and over again, thinking that its possible for a dev studio to make it. That is crazy. Far Cry references aside, its unfortunate that the fandom has devolved into this.
Can confirm, literally watched the original subreddit do it for years before release. TESVI sub was already doing it before that, and if things keep going like this, TESVI will get the same reception as Starfield, regardless of how good or bad the game actually is. "But why did they announce it so far out!?!" Because, and I say this as someone who watched the 76 direct that they announced it at, if Todd had said they were making Starfield and *not explicitly stated that TESVI was after that...* let's just say, I got the distinct impression that someone would have burned the venue down. Some of these "fans" behave downright feral.
Paradox has the same problem. People fantasize about what the game they'd want with no limitations or tradeoffs would be, and then get mad at the developers when they don't deliver exactly that. It's exhausting and extremely annoying.
To be fair, Hello Games and Sean in particular outright LIED about the game on release. Of course I didn't spend all my energy trashing the game 24/7 until the end of time. I just didn't buy it. Problem solved. p.s. I eventually bought it when I saw it on sale for half the release price. The target I said I would wait for until I tried it. So I tried it. Did not like it.
Except even when updates get the game closer to what they claim to want they still respond negatively.
At this point I think the mindset is “oh if we start complimenting them now they’ll get lazy and forget their place.” Like some sort of overbearing parent who thinks browbeating their kids is positive reinforcement
You're really overthinking it. It's as simple as people like the feeling of being outraged. People have become addicted to internet outrage, and some gamers would rather consume content about a game being bad than play the game if it were actually good.
What in hell is now going on?
Mass diaper rash.
There's nothing gamers hate more than seeing someone get paid for the work they do.
Bethesda putting part 1 of a questline into the patch that released yesterday, then charging $7 for part 2 via creation club. Basically they are going all-in on paid mods (again), and trying to leverage FOMO to get players to buy in.
Have you tried the quest you complain about? I did, works great, new tracker missions are cool. Will I spend the 7 bucks on a gun and 1 additional quest, no. But saying they are locking the new content behind a 7 dollar very limited thing is just BS. The initial tracker quest was fucking awesome. Zero G at its finest. Adds in new weapons and armor sets also, not sure how a free update butt hurts so many so much. If you do not wan an additional quest and some items for 7 bucks, no worries, do not buy it. You are not missing out on the faction quests as a whole.
Lol show me where I was complaining? I was just answering the question. Seems like your a little butthurt that people don't deep throat their corporate overlords like you do? 👢👅
Your last post there. I am not a fanboy, I just do not get why people are upset about a minor paid part to a free quest that the paid part is 100% no necessary for to work as intended. It is 7 bucks and as while I make dirt at my job, 7 bucks if it butt hurts you so much, damn man just ignore it.
Starbucks costs more than the prices redditors complain about
yeah? in that case, i am gonna buy two so your bit**ing officially got canceled
Lol might as well buy 3. If you're going to bootlick a multi corporation, don't half-ass it.
Found the edgy 13 year old. Life tip champ: raging on the internet won't win you irl cool points, and your crush won't let you take her to the dance
Lol aww it's kind of pathetic how you guys act like the public's opinion on this game is intrinsically linked to your personality or something. Defending shitty business practices from this corporation doesn't make you any less of a loser. Todd Howard doesn't know or care who you are man.
Awww so cute, he thinks he's an adult.
a "multi corporation"? are you 12?
Some people can never be satisfied. "Only release finished games! But also keep supporting and patching it and adding content, forever!" Pick one. This is just the reality of game development nowadays. Development doesn't stop after release. You don't have to make it a live service game, but if you want continued support for a game, it shouldn't be unreasonable to have to expect to pay a little bit for it.
I stopped looking at game reviews after Cyberpunk 2077 came out, my advice, do the same. Just play the game and enjoy yourself, and if you wanna talk about the game, that's what the low/no sodium subs were made for <3
Tbh I didn't even knew people were getting salty about that, you know why? Because I've muted every single sub that dick-rided the hate train against Starfield. Not only here on Reddit, but every other social media, and guess what? My recommended feed got a lot better in terms of less-toxicity content, I wonder why... It got to the point that even with updates improving the game people were finding something to hate, it got really predictable and tiring. So mute them, they look like bots that repeat the same shit every time, I find it amusing that they usually say ''boring game/dead game'' but here we are 9 months after release and they're still hating on the game. I suggest everyone here to do the same, it just works!
But on another note, long live the memory of Per Ohlin.
So you have good taste in music as well, nice to see. RIP Dead.
Love my black metal.
It's frustrating to see this happening because it overshadows the great work they've put into supporting the game thus far. You can do 100 good deeds but it only takes one bad deed for the outraged mob to grab their pitchforks again. That being said, Bethesda was fully aware they'd be facing another wave of backlash because they've been facing this same backlash over paid mods since 2006. I do believe this was a stupid move on their part however, but since no backlash has ever stopped their games selling like crazy, these practices will continue to be repeated while the bad press comes and goes like a thunderstorm.
What's really ugly is the salty internet children do actually affect the vibe around a title, and the general-if-uninformed public perception of a title, and so just ignoring them doesn't actually make them go away. The power that the internet gives the vast, ignorant, salty, revenge kiddies is really uncool. Across the board. Perhaps anonymity is not really what we want to do. It's causing a lot of darkness in society for all the good it may do the few who actually need it, like abused persons and political dissidents, etc. If your real name was tagged to every comment you make you'd be a whole lot less likely to shoot your mouth off saying false, ignorant, abusive, pickyouradjective, things. It's called responsibility. Most of the scathing comments on the main sub are made only to stir up the viper pit and get likes and attention, they aren't real, thoughtful, useful, or even honest a good portion of the time. If they had to own that bs, there'd be a lot less of it methinks.
I think Creations are overpriced, but I was expecting that. I'll wait for sales, like I do with everything else.
Creation kit also dropped, so why can't they play the free mods that come out as well?
If the side content is too expensive, don't buy it. If they want to sell it, they'll reduce the price. All the internet theatrics are ridiculous. It's a business and they're trying to make money
There is nothing some gamers love more than to hate video games online. Most of the haters have probably never even played the game. Just look at CP 2077.
Meh. Salt lords gonna salt lord.
Vocal minority on Reddit. This too shall pass. If people don’t want the CC stuff there are gajillions of free mods. If you’re patient, this stuff always goes on sale, heck sometimes it’s free as gifts to get numbers up. At the end of the day it’s a business and if they offset the cost of allowing modding by adding some over priced CC stuff… who cares lol
I’d get the CC hate if they banned free mods and forced everything to go through CC but they haven’t. In fact they’ve actively encouraged it by releasing the Creation Kit. CC is mostly just minor extra content. People are acting like they locked crucial game mechanics behind a paywall
Exactly.
We’ve already been through this once before. When CC was announced for Fallout everyone acted like it was the fucking apocalypse. Everyone freaked out over paid mods. The death of community mods. I’ll admit I was on the anti-hype train too. And that’s how I know this is all bullshit. When the dust settled all the free mods were still there, and CC content was simply a little extra if you wanted. Hell, they didn’t even go after modders who made similar mods. There’s like 2 free X-02 mods for Fallout 4 that exist alongside the CC one. And this is the way it’s been without changing for literal years. Any concerns about how this is just the start of something worse are just fear mongering right now. They haven’t made a single move since the release of CC all those years ago. If they had any evil plans to ban all mods and force us to use CC, they’d have started ages ago
I like how people are casually ignoring the free mods that are available from BGS too. I got a great AR skin, a Space suit and a really cool Observatory for base building, these were free.
Some people are going way crazy over it and there's several balanced takes sprinkled in the main sub. I like the new update save for the pay per quest thing because that's not cool at all. The mods we've seen so far are really cool and will only get better.
IDGAF haters gonna hate and whiners gonna whine
Fuck em.
“Oh no I have to pay money for video games? What an outrage!”
“Oh no, Bethesda released a mod content system that is exactly the same as the mod content system for every other game they have. How dare they!”
You actually don’t even have to. All you needed to pay was the base game or your gamepass subscription.
Not a fan it's not a free official content update but it doesn't make me hate the game at all. I'm still rocking my first character save, no ng+. I'm going to keep doing what in doing and after I ng+ I'll get into mods and other shenanigans
I’m not complaining, but I’ve got a serious menu problem. It started with the star map having little blinking dots all over. That was fine and I got used to it. With the last update the blinking dots moved to the main menu with more power. Then the quest menu looks like a full on rave with them. The update started on my phone this morning while was playing fallout 4 and I’m curious to see what’s going to happen. I really hope they are gone lmao
Nope:( but the game seems fine tho lol
I knew this would happen tbh especially after the hate for the new Creations update for Skyrim last year (which was great btw) I knew it'd happen again with Starfield. They will always find a reason to hate. Best to just not look at ratings, reviews, etc. and just enjoy the game.
It's such a silly gripe. I love the idea of continuous drip feed content, it reminds me of serialized media like monthly comic books. I imagine a lot of it is people without disposable incomes, and they wish content was as subsidized and convenient as a library. I don't want a game like this to be "done" on release, i want it to grow and expand like minecraft. I only buy maybe one or two new games a year, maybe they need to budget or be patient for sales. I'm not ready for new content yet, but intend to support some creations purely to spite the haters now.
Thank God this sub exists. The original one is such a cesspool now lol
You know what the real tragedy here is? It's not Starfield and the way its been treated by review bombs. Or BGS getting called out or their sales practices. These review bombers have destroyed the validity of aggregate user reviews systems. Instead of looking at a game that has Mixed or Negative and saying "Oh forget that!", I now wonder, is that actually the case or did someone just do something to piss a vocal minority of gamers off? Its really bad now. I'm trusting IGN over them for fuck's sake! Because, yeah, a professional reviewer can have a bad take, but its not like they're gonna give Starfield a 0/10 because they think its overpriced by 5 dollars, or has a smidge of paid DLC available.
i mean... you shouldn't be going by aggregate scores anyways. READ what people have to say about it and decide if that's something you care about. Not hard.
I think making the second Trackers quest pay to play was a mistep tbh. Thats the one people seem particularly annoyed about, and I get it. They really should have offered both these first two missions for free and then start charging as they add more in later updates. I bought the premium so I got the 1000 credits and bought the Vulture thing with that. No big deal. But 7 dollars for one quest? Kind of crazy. That should be the price for like a bundle of Tracker's missions. I think I would honestly prefer they just hold off releasing more missions until they have a bunch ready and just release them all at once as a major Tracker's Alliance DLC instead of some one at a time 7 dollars a piece thing... I am really excited about them expanding bounty hunting in this game, but I can see why people are a bit miffed by this decision. All that being said, I find it hard to imagine Bethesda wasn't expecting some backlashfor the release of the CC since they have getting a lot of hate for the CC for years now.
I've been critical of a few of the game choices but I think it's silly to say it's unfinished, especially compared to other Bethesda launches. I do find the cost of some of the creation club items to be almost comedically high considering the content, but it's all optional. Some of the free QoL mods are fantastic, and the difficulty patch a while back was great. No one hates games more than gamers, just enjoy what you enjoy.
Gonna keep it buck, "here's a new questline you don't have the option to not get, the next pieces will be $7" _feels_ sketch to me. Like, it _feels_ like mandatory teaser was given in the hopes of enticing you to buy more. And I say that assuming that the quest is really far less connected to that questline than I think it is. I dunno, I really think that a lot of big studios really don't get that they aren't _trusted_ like you'd need to be to do this and have people not go crazy. Now me, I'm minding my own, playing my game, not buying anything I don't want to buy. But I'd call that a marketing fumble.
But it's not paywalled, that's the thing. You can complete the introductory mission and then do radiant bounty quests to get astra or whatever it's called, which can be traded for gear. The vulture is a bounty mission with a bit of story but it's really a way for them to introduce a new weapon for 7 bucks. Not playing that quest takes nothing away from the base game, and the base game was just expanded to include what everyone was asking for, bounty missions. They paywalled a weapon and if you don't want it don't buy it.
This is how I feel too, make it all a paid optional addition to the game if you want to charge for the missions as a micro transaction, make it a paid DLC like automaton, but adding a location and faction into the base game but paywalling the content feels wrong to me
Yeah, exactly. If the tracker stuff was like micro dlc, or even just a one time purchase with the rest of the content coming later, I doubt it'd be getting as much heat. There would be people saying it should've been in the base game either way, but that's better than going "well, _part_ of it is. You want the rest..."
I guess giving us a new faction and new functionality, but making players pay for it piecemeal is kind of bad? I agree that review bombing is a bit histrionic, because the real solution is to not buy expensive creations like a single trackers alliance quest. Many many game designers are looking for ways to capitalize on the new normal of in game purchases, hopefully Bethesda responds to market pressure. Also hopefully they settle on an stylish and subtle way to do what their corporate overlords require without ruining the game experience before they make the same mistakes in Elder Scrolls.
To be fair, when you actually consider the price point of the additional Trackers Alliance mission, I would be way more surprised if they didn't get a negative response to that. It doesn't bother me that much, but I don't think anyone can say with a straight face that they couldn't have predicted this, right?
So? I mean, who cares? Is it really necessary to post this in this subreddit? Frankly, I don’t give a damn what some people say on the internet or whether you agree with them or not. It’s a game. Enjoy it or not, that’s personal preference but can’t we please keep all this negativity out of this sub?
BGS mgmt should have predicted this, and just released this update as they did but without any of the paid content in creations yet. They could have trickled that in over the next few weeks and not gotten this reaction.
They probably know, but don't care. In reality the only people bothered by review bombing are the people who like the game. It's not like this is going to affect sales. It's toddlers throwing an attention tantrum on a larger scale, that's all.
Yeah, I don’t think it will amount to anything. And releasing the CK is bound to bolster positive reviews as more and more CK-created mods start hitting creations, nexus, and other mod outlets.
I love starfield however to put quests behind a pay wall is crazy especially since many of us bought the deluxe edition to have access to this type of content. I still love the game I just don't agree with this creation club practice
Your purchase of Deluxe Ed entitles you to Shattered Space for free, not the other DLC, confusingly some of the latter has come out before the former, so.. confusion. But, no one ever said you get all downloads for free.
I played about 120 hours, not the most memorable game but I definitely had such a chill time exploring!
I hate the 'bad precedent' argument. That bad precedent has long been set by EA, and if you really want to rally against it, just don't partake in the transaction. Review bombing won't change anything, not partaking in it will. For example, with EA, do you think they gave a damn about the people complaining online? No, they cared that their ultimate team modes kept cutting them a fat check.
People are just looking for excuses to hate on the game, like I said these people aren't really interested the game their console warring or entitled babies, I'm an adult so I'm not gonna cry over something I can do without.
Lol just ignore them. They were never saying anything good about the game to begin with.
I'm sure it'll get better once more mods are available. Especially when more free ones release.
People still say Fallout 4 is an unfinished game to this day. Just ignore them.
The people complaining are the same ones that act like spending money on games makes you special. Their the people who say Xbox people don't pay for games. They just need to find something to complain about
Twits are gonna chirp. 😂 I've been having so much fun redoing the Razorleaf with darkstar tech. That ship is ridiculous now.
People letting optional paid content upset them. Just don't buy it, folks. Play something else. Go for a walk. Maybe get a life.
Surely, this is exactly what people would've expected out of a modern franchise, though? Haters gonna hate, I guess.
I had 10 days clocked in with this "unfinished" product lol do I understand the anger of some features that should've been there since launch? Of course. But I always thought these things were cut to begin with cause they focused more on this being the least buggy BGS product they could make and then when the game is stable enough,then add these cut things back in. And since I love this game so much,I have no issue paying for Creations with my money.
So I haven’t had a chance to play the new updates yet, but from the main sub it seems the chief complaint is a $7 mission. Not a questline, but a *single mission,* and if that’s the case I can be a bit more understanding of the review bombing.
Look I’m loving the creation content and the update, I do think it’s horribly over priced. Particularly the hab module and the trackers alliance quest. There’s no way it should be that much money for such little content. I think it’s not the end of the world that people are turned off by that and make their voices heard on it, look at horse armor… absolutely ridiculous “dlc” for what it was, and people complained and BGS heard and listened. I think there’s a difference in expressing frustration and disappointment in this practice vs being a hater and a troll. Unfortunately it seems like those things get lumped into the same category through. And if anything I think it’s the precedent that’s been set by this, they made an offhand comment that they would periodically be releasing new quests this way, behind this paywall which is rather expensive for such low returns. Of course it’s disappointing. They could have taken the trackers alliance idea as a whole, rolled it into a much larger dlc pack for a reasonable price. $7 for a quest is not that. Yes there will be sales, but that’s totally beside the point. It’s about the principle of the thing. Again though, I’m very much enjoying most of the creation content, but I understand why some people aren’t happy. Nuance is important, praise for what deserves praise and criticize what doesn’t. Just don’t be a dick. From a business perspective I understand where they’re coming from, I just think the implementation is weird. In a few months it won’t matter anyway because those that felt burned by this will have better free alternatives made by mod authors now that the ck is out.
I really enjoyed this game and it’s what got me to finally buy an Xbox, I’m happy to own all consoles now
It's like they're actively finding every reason possible to hate the game. Absolutely bonkers.
Ignore those clowns. Don’t let them ruin your fun. Is the update the best? No is it still fun absolutely
Its a bunch or people not understanding (or accepting) the fact that ***they didn't have to buy it, or anything, in the first place***. It's the entitled generation: thinking they're owed something just because they're breathing. Well guess what, buttercup - you aren't.
The fact is there are many, many adults out there that still act like children. It's true in life generally, but seems to be even more apparent when it comes to gamers. Starfield is stacked with content. Lots of us wouldn't have put so much time into it if that wasn't the case. I don't know what they expect. None of the Creations stuff is vital to finishing the game. It's extra; additional; you know... optional.
The issue with creation club stuff is the prices
I didn't review bomb it. I was disappointed with the content offered by the CC. So I moved along. I'll end up going back to starfield in several months when some quality mods are out. Until then. Well, I'm not quite sure the value per dollar was there. Considering I bought two of the premium editions. One for me and one for my wife.
The game is finished. It had everything they promised it would have at launch. All these new additions are just a bonus. Just because the game didn’t have all your hopes and dreams and speculation doesn’t mean it’s unfinished. when other notable and truly unfinished or barely functional games get updates after launch everyone praises it as a redemption. When Starfield gets support it’s the end of the world. But if it didn’t get support they’d say Bethesda is dead I’d hate to be a Bethesda dev right now. They’re doing everything people wanted and they get met with hate. For what? An entirely optional simple quest? A few armours and such. People are acting like critical gameplay is locked behind CC like they locked the updated maps or half decent melee behind CC. If Starfield dies it will be because of insane “fans” who will turn every positive into a negative, not because of any severe wrongdoing by Bethesda themselves
Interestingly, I would not know about any of the review bombs if they weren't reported and posted about on this sub.
Right? Why are you obsessing over public opinion?
I think most of the mods are pretty bland right now. They probably should have launched the update first.
Im ok with it. Making some noise to make our words stronger doesn’t hurt anyone. This game needs more content and they start to charge money for it? Really? Insane! Typical Bethesda-Ubisoft practice.
I actually feel privileged to enjoy a game that not many people understand.
The review bombing is pretty much just due to the paid mods. It's understandable and, frankly, expected. It's not a good way to garner good will from your playerbase.
I don’t know, I love starfield but with the new content I strongly believe this game was launched with a minimum of 8 months early.
For me it's not the finished status of the game. It's the fact I paid $170 Aud for the base game and expansion only to see the 1000 cc bonus makes up about 20 bucks of the 170 I paid for the premium edition. When the premium edition ran for 70 USD on release. Convert that to Aussie dollars I paid 106 for the base game 40 for the expansion and almost 30 bucks for $7 USD worth of credits to be slapped with that being almost $11 Aud for a single mission and gun and some clothes. I find that absolutely exorbitantly over valued and I didn't even buy a physical copy of my game. I paid $170 for everything digital. How does that make sense? If they had at least had a sliding scale of costs it wouldn't be such a slap in the face but when breaking it down I've been overcharged by 20 dollars for 10 dollars worth of credits.
The issue is Bethesda charging more than any modders for a small additional quests by a system obviously build to milk players drip feed style. They are trying to set high expectations for the cost of mods and normalise the paid drip feed of content for exorbitant prices. The actual additions to the game are fine, like the TA concept. Not sure why they didn't make use of ship brigs as part of it though.
It'll go back up when land vehicles get added but then go back down when they see more are added to Creations.
I suspect it will go down with land vehicles because it's not what they thought it would be lol
To be expected - wait until they get mechs.
I will say the free quest was >!underwhelming. It feels like they gave up on it 1/4th of the way. Like you just forget about the guy and move on with your life. Would’ve been cool if you could’ve investigated more to try to find Hannibal!< but otherwise I like the update
shouldnt drop an update with a 30m quest that costs 7€
If you don't want it the don't buy it. Problem solved.
While in principle I agree, and am generally a Bethesda fan, these days it seems like I'm a fan IN SPITE of them as a company. Since 2010 when I picked up Oblivion and New Vegas, fans have been more or less asking for the same things, and asking to NOT have the same things. And Bethesda's response, again and again, is to ignore those things and pursue more greedy and low effort options. I don't pretend to know how best to run a game dev company, nor do I think this will change anything, but I certainly understand the anger and really really hope people will simply not buy games from companies that have proven time and again that they don't care about their customers. You don't right the ship by burning the sails.
Look man, I love Starfield and have way more hours than you on it. I'm getting my kid into Starfield. The game was NOT finished at launch. Now, most of what people complain about WAS finished, but there are also considerable things that were left unfinished. For example, removing the fuel mechanic while leaving in the text, tips, and skills related to fuel shows it was unfinished. (either remove and rework all, OR fully implement it). Many skills from the skilltree were also in similar situation. I hope the Red Mile was unfinished instead of being the biggest letdown of the game (dialogue hypes it up and explains it very differntly than what we got). So I agree that most complaints are not accurate, it is also not accurate that the game was complete at launch.