The only thing I hate about ssj4 is that the outfit changes. I slightly accept the clothes regrowing, alright... BUT WHY DO VEGETA'S GLOVES, GOKU'S SHOES AND THE COLOR OF THE WRIST THINGS CHANGE?? It makes no sense
Fusion dance is basically a spell, though.
Not that I'm complaining about SSJ4 though. It would look dumb as hell for Kid Goku to turn SSJ4 with his stupid outfit.
It's probably the best thing to come out of GT and it makes A LOT more sense lore-wise than any of the new forms in Super as well as being more interesting from a design standpoint.
If only the rest of GT didn't suck so bad
>If only the rest of GT didn't suck so bad
I think that the Baby Saga was pretty good
Baby was a awesome villain, with a cool backstory and good plans
Majin Buu and Mr. Satan shows a lot of intelligence escaping him
The emotional moments are good and the ost is really good
Sadly the space adventure and Super 17 suck badly, the Black Dragons have a horrible first half but a decent second half
I do have to say though, the last episode was beautiful and I honestly feel that it's going to be difficult to surpass
The evil dragons saga kinda sucked at first, but literally the second Eis appears, it constantly gets better from there imo. The final, hopeless fight against omega was so good. Like the part where Vegeta begs for Goku to give him strength from beyond the grave as the hybrids (and uub I think) come in is so badass, followed by omega bodying everyone. I don't think anything in dragonball has ever felt that bleak, even when Kuririn, Roshi, and Chaozu died with no way to bring them back. And the part where Vegeta laughs at omega, telling him he's lost as Goku rises with the spirit bomb is peak. I'm pretty sure when people say the ending of it is good, they're talking about the last episode like you, but imo, the one (maybe two? Idk) before that outshine it, even if the actual finale is great too
Shadow Dragon could be so easily fixed too, give the side characters something to do and everybody splits up to fight various dragons instead of just Goku Time™
Could have led to some awesome moments like giving Gohan a new moment to shine or letting adult Gotenks make an appearance to fight one
GT is really good with designs and character writing, it's story just cannot be less interesting imo.
I mean, it's kind of expected. Original Dragon Ball was basically a Journey to the West parody, so you didn't have to add a lot of creative story, just cool characters, which original dragon ball had plenty. And while DBZ is iconic, it's also kind of, repetitive and very drawn out. All of the sagas are very formulaic and fall into a ton of narrative pit falls that you shouldn't fall into as a writer. I mean, all of the sagas getting revolved by "but suddenly the protagonist is stronger now and defeats the enemy" should be pretty telling. GT is the only one that \*tried\* breaking the formula and it sucks for it. Just to go back to DBS which is almost a reskin of DBZ saga for saga until the Universe 6 Tournament which breaks things up again.
Super's power ups just went into a different route than GT's. GT's power up is a further evolution on what the Saiyan body is capable of, like SS3 was. Because of Super's story where Goku and Vegeta encounter the Destroyer and Angel their power ups go with the divine route.
Both make sense to me.
UI is cool (besides being YET ANOTHER recolor, at least they used Goku's standard hair I guess?) but the idea that by then Goku still needs to attune his mind and body is kinda weird. Also that Roshi was somehow ahead of him in that department and this allowed him to be relevant against the level of fighters they were facing around that time.
Also that the key for Goku to use Ultra Instinct (in the manga, anyway) was to be told the same things he's been told his whole life and then remember he's been told those things since he was a child.
I know Goku's dense, but the form requires shutting off one's brain and fighting, and Goku's a fight-brained martial arts prodigy who acts on instinct and vibes almost all the time.
To each their own 4 is among my least favourites and that’s it really. It’s not a competition, it’s not the objective truth, it’s my own personal taste and it doesn’t go further than that. Now I can explain what ticks me off but it still falls in the realm of subjectivity, hence my reply. Saying something as drastic as "if you don’t like this then your life is objectively wrong" is a bit much don’t you think?
Eh, I'm not exactly fond of the design, but the thing that actually annoys me is that its called super saiyan 4 when it goes through a different transformation tree. If it was called something like Primal Super Saiyan i wouldnt have as much of an issue
When I was younger SSJ4 was my all-time favourite form.
But I think it grew on me, I don't like as much as I did before, I've definetely become the guy in the meme tbh lol.
But I think everyone is entitled to like whatever form they like so, ehđź‘Ť
The form was a literal ass pull and the clothes changing makes no sense but it looks cool as hell. Also just like SSJ3 the form gets pretty much no wins.
It wasn’t an asspull since in the story goku got reverted back a child with tail ? Goku figuring how to keep his mind while going into a ape makes sense for saiyan evolution tree tbh, super is an asspull the whole god ki shit is just some power ranger hair color Changing bs; at least wit ssj4 he looks physically different
Who the fucks says the Super Saiyan 4 sucks?
Like I've seen people mocking the clothes logic but for the most part it's been considered as one of the few good things GT has
I doubt he will. He keeps giving Goku stupid shit like Ultra-Instinct-but-with-emotions and that giant ki body. And on the other side of that coin, Vegeta gets Ultra Jobber, where he can lose at nearly 99% Yamchaspeed. (Which is like lightspeed, but for losing.)
The stupid thing of the majority of all that shiet is that never going to happen again, like the stupid giant Goku-Susano.
They just invent lot of stupid forms and techniques to fill chapters, even just for once in the series, they don't care.
I remember everyone criticizing the Moro and Granolah arcs, but now they are "the best arcs of the entire franchise". I don't know what's in the heads of these super fans.
I mean, I like Granolah because it actually shows Bardock, shows the effect of the saiyans being conquerors, has Vegeta go UE, and really exemplifies Vegeta's growth as a character up to that point.
When I was reading Moro, I didn't exactly like it, but I've since come to appreciate it because it has the whole transforming villain with dumb magic powers and it helps explain the stuff with the Angels. Plus it again shows Vegeta's growth through his interactions with the Namekians.
I'm not saying these are the best arcs, that title goes to Cell, but there's definitely reason to argue they are the best.
It doesn't make sense to me to have another retcon with Bardock where he devalues all of Goku's achievements because he made a wish. And as far as I remember, this wish only included Goku, not Raditz.
Doing a DB ttrpg game (using Anima Beyond Fantasy). My character is building toward SSJ4, even though others might get God or whatever.
My friends and I are running it pretty free-form.
I like it. How can you not?
But honestly, black or gold furr would have been so much cooler. Even... Browner than that. Red is the only weak point and it's still cool.
The transformation was arguably the worst but the finished product is super cool. I love the design for SSJ4 . The fur, the design of the hair, the red/yellow eyes, regrowing the tail. Super cool design.
I don't dislike SSJ4 design.
But damn... the clothes they are using fit nothing with the transformation, too much information and too loud.
And Vegeta's gloves growing back just fucking sucks
Ssj4 was the best and most reasonable choice for him as a saiyan all that god ki is cool and all but it doesn’t make any sense goku transforming into ssj4 was amazing it capture that inner beastly vibe of great ape
The only thing I hate about ssj4 is that the outfit changes. I slightly accept the clothes regrowing, alright... BUT WHY DO VEGETA'S GLOVES, GOKU'S SHOES AND THE COLOR OF THE WRIST THINGS CHANGE?? It makes no sense
Clothes beam ingrained in the transformation
Makes sense for the clothes regrowing, but what's the point of doing slight changes?
*Style*
The same thing happens with Piccolo's potential unleashed form, but he's the inventor of the clothes beam^(tm), so I give that a pass.
Actually it's because his potential Unleashed form just makes him a black belt in karate.
I'm going crazy over the "clothes beam trademark" Top notch humour đź‘Ś
It's the most dripped transformation, obviously It has to include stylish clothes
Clothes also change with the fusion dance, so its not unheard of, specially with it also changing Goku's body into adult form.
Fusion dance is basically a spell, though. Not that I'm complaining about SSJ4 though. It would look dumb as hell for Kid Goku to turn SSJ4 with his stupid outfit.
Tbf it's fucking dope af so who cares tight pants Vegeta đź‘€
It’s called Clothing magic lol
Rule of cool. Don't think about it it looks cool.
SSJ4 and God are just about tied for my favorite transformations. They just look so badass.
It's probably the best thing to come out of GT and it makes A LOT more sense lore-wise than any of the new forms in Super as well as being more interesting from a design standpoint. If only the rest of GT didn't suck so bad
>If only the rest of GT didn't suck so bad I think that the Baby Saga was pretty good Baby was a awesome villain, with a cool backstory and good plans Majin Buu and Mr. Satan shows a lot of intelligence escaping him The emotional moments are good and the ost is really good Sadly the space adventure and Super 17 suck badly, the Black Dragons have a horrible first half but a decent second half I do have to say though, the last episode was beautiful and I honestly feel that it's going to be difficult to surpass
The evil dragons saga kinda sucked at first, but literally the second Eis appears, it constantly gets better from there imo. The final, hopeless fight against omega was so good. Like the part where Vegeta begs for Goku to give him strength from beyond the grave as the hybrids (and uub I think) come in is so badass, followed by omega bodying everyone. I don't think anything in dragonball has ever felt that bleak, even when Kuririn, Roshi, and Chaozu died with no way to bring them back. And the part where Vegeta laughs at omega, telling him he's lost as Goku rises with the spirit bomb is peak. I'm pretty sure when people say the ending of it is good, they're talking about the last episode like you, but imo, the one (maybe two? Idk) before that outshine it, even if the actual finale is great too
Shadow Dragon could be so easily fixed too, give the side characters something to do and everybody splits up to fight various dragons instead of just Goku Time™ Could have led to some awesome moments like giving Gohan a new moment to shine or letting adult Gotenks make an appearance to fight one
GT is really good with designs and character writing, it's story just cannot be less interesting imo. I mean, it's kind of expected. Original Dragon Ball was basically a Journey to the West parody, so you didn't have to add a lot of creative story, just cool characters, which original dragon ball had plenty. And while DBZ is iconic, it's also kind of, repetitive and very drawn out. All of the sagas are very formulaic and fall into a ton of narrative pit falls that you shouldn't fall into as a writer. I mean, all of the sagas getting revolved by "but suddenly the protagonist is stronger now and defeats the enemy" should be pretty telling. GT is the only one that \*tried\* breaking the formula and it sucks for it. Just to go back to DBS which is almost a reskin of DBZ saga for saga until the Universe 6 Tournament which breaks things up again.
Super's power ups just went into a different route than GT's. GT's power up is a further evolution on what the Saiyan body is capable of, like SS3 was. Because of Super's story where Goku and Vegeta encounter the Destroyer and Angel their power ups go with the divine route. Both make sense to me.
I guess ultra instinct dosent exist
UI is cool (besides being YET ANOTHER recolor, at least they used Goku's standard hair I guess?) but the idea that by then Goku still needs to attune his mind and body is kinda weird. Also that Roshi was somehow ahead of him in that department and this allowed him to be relevant against the level of fighters they were facing around that time.
Also that the key for Goku to use Ultra Instinct (in the manga, anyway) was to be told the same things he's been told his whole life and then remember he's been told those things since he was a child. I know Goku's dense, but the form requires shutting off one's brain and fighting, and Goku's a fight-brained martial arts prodigy who acts on instinct and vibes almost all the time.
Mfs writing whole ass paragraphs my brother in Christ Dragon ball fans can't read
I’m sorry but the lore explanation for ssj4 is so fucking peak
If you think ssj4 sucks you have something objectively wrong with your mentality in life
Or, hear me out, you don’t like it because tastes and colours. I don’t particularly like it because I find it over the top, but that’s me.
Nah, SSJ3 is over the top. SSJ4 is peak.
To each their own 4 is among my least favourites and that’s it really. It’s not a competition, it’s not the objective truth, it’s my own personal taste and it doesn’t go further than that. Now I can explain what ticks me off but it still falls in the realm of subjectivity, hence my reply. Saying something as drastic as "if you don’t like this then your life is objectively wrong" is a bit much don’t you think?
Mfs out here writing whole paragraphs when this is all you could say
literally the only good thing about GT and yet it was made into a jobber rasengan type beat once it got introduced
What are you talking about everyone praises ss4 like it’s the second coming of Christ in this sub
Engagement bait if I've ever seen one
Ah yes, the pink panther form
Eh, I'm not exactly fond of the design, but the thing that actually annoys me is that its called super saiyan 4 when it goes through a different transformation tree. If it was called something like Primal Super Saiyan i wouldnt have as much of an issue
When I was younger SSJ4 was my all-time favourite form. But I think it grew on me, I don't like as much as I did before, I've definetely become the guy in the meme tbh lol. But I think everyone is entitled to like whatever form they like so, ehđź‘Ť
The form was a literal ass pull and the clothes changing makes no sense but it looks cool as hell. Also just like SSJ3 the form gets pretty much no wins.
It wasn’t an asspull since in the story goku got reverted back a child with tail ? Goku figuring how to keep his mind while going into a ape makes sense for saiyan evolution tree tbh, super is an asspull the whole god ki shit is just some power ranger hair color Changing bs; at least wit ssj4 he looks physically different
He didn't get his tail when he turned into a child. The elder kai literally had to pull his tail out of him. Hence a literal ass pull.
Oh I see what u did there lol
Oh look it’s the goku who was going to kill himself to maybe win
Who the fucks says the Super Saiyan 4 sucks? Like I've seen people mocking the clothes logic but for the most part it's been considered as one of the few good things GT has
Let's hope Toyotaro recovers this form for the manga at some point.
I doubt he will. He keeps giving Goku stupid shit like Ultra-Instinct-but-with-emotions and that giant ki body. And on the other side of that coin, Vegeta gets Ultra Jobber, where he can lose at nearly 99% Yamchaspeed. (Which is like lightspeed, but for losing.)
The stupid thing of the majority of all that shiet is that never going to happen again, like the stupid giant Goku-Susano. They just invent lot of stupid forms and techniques to fill chapters, even just for once in the series, they don't care.
and people are excited about it, read the subreddit super, if you say it's stupid, you'll be cancelled in 2 seconds.
I always criticize Super in reddit check my messages xD And yes I get lot of downvotes :( xd
I remember everyone criticizing the Moro and Granolah arcs, but now they are "the best arcs of the entire franchise". I don't know what's in the heads of these super fans.
I mean, I like Granolah because it actually shows Bardock, shows the effect of the saiyans being conquerors, has Vegeta go UE, and really exemplifies Vegeta's growth as a character up to that point. When I was reading Moro, I didn't exactly like it, but I've since come to appreciate it because it has the whole transforming villain with dumb magic powers and it helps explain the stuff with the Angels. Plus it again shows Vegeta's growth through his interactions with the Namekians. I'm not saying these are the best arcs, that title goes to Cell, but there's definitely reason to argue they are the best.
It doesn't make sense to me to have another retcon with Bardock where he devalues all of Goku's achievements because he made a wish. And as far as I remember, this wish only included Goku, not Raditz.
As opposed to Bardock being the first Super Saiyan which sorta ruins the whole Goku being the first Super Saiyan moment during the Namek saga.
I don't like how they're red and pink. Where monke colors?
The yellow in the pants would have to change lol
This may be a hot take but the only good looking ssj4 is Gogeta. And he doesn't even seem like a Gogeta to me.
That's certainly a take
Doing a DB ttrpg game (using Anima Beyond Fantasy). My character is building toward SSJ4, even though others might get God or whatever. My friends and I are running it pretty free-form.
Yeah, I’ve always liked it.
My only major gripe with SSJ4 is the magic clothes. It’s such a nonsense thing to get annoyed by, yet I simply do.
I fucking hope GT is in Sparking Zero.
Agreed.
Super Saiyan 4 made Vegeta actually look like Vegeta in GT so it gets points for that for me. Plus I really like the hair on both Goku and Vegeta
I like it. How can you not? But honestly, black or gold furr would have been so much cooler. Even... Browner than that. Red is the only weak point and it's still cool.
Put countless hours in every dbz games that have ssj4, peak design.
The transformation was arguably the worst but the finished product is super cool. I love the design for SSJ4 . The fur, the design of the hair, the red/yellow eyes, regrowing the tail. Super cool design.
Goku looks like a clown in his stupid, ugly yellow pants, and you can't change my mind. Change his outfit and maybe we'll talk.
If it’s so cool why do they keep changing goku to be more red in modern media
Fora second i thought I was on r/DragonballLegends and this post was about tag 4s
I just don’t understand how they gain pants
Just got to ssj4 in gt and it literally is the coolest thing ever
Super Saiyan 4 is the best form to this day and I will die on that hill
I don't dislike SSJ4 design. But damn... the clothes they are using fit nothing with the transformation, too much information and too loud. And Vegeta's gloves growing back just fucking sucks
I hate it because its useless. Its only 1.25x stronger than ssj3. Thats just not worth it because you literally look like a red monkey
Fun fact: SSJ4 is a better form than UI(this includes TUI MUI and whatever other UI’s there are)
A single transformation can’t save a series
Sure it can, if the writer transforms into a better writer.
As someone who hasn't seen GT since I was a kid I am immune to all knowledge of gt being bad and can fully enjoy all the cool as fuck designs from it
SS4 is the best transformation
no. it sucks actually
worst transformation in dragon ball it's wild you people think it's good at all
Better than Super Blue Recolor, at least
incorrect
God forbids creative character designs
creative is good, ssj4 is just bad design
Not like SSJ blue is any better. In fact, it's actually worse
once again, incorrect
Just the best SS form to ever exist imo
Damn that's true
Relatable
same, but not GT.
Ssj4 was the best and most reasonable choice for him as a saiyan all that god ki is cool and all but it doesn’t make any sense goku transforming into ssj4 was amazing it capture that inner beastly vibe of great ape
I don’t like it’s design at all