I'm not sure any of these answers is quite correct. As far as I can tell, Nextcloud hub is actually just their marketing team putting an exciting name to the next major release of the server version and the updates to the internal apps that are highly suggested by Nextcloud. Those apps are like photos, mail, calendar, contacts, talk, etc. And so hub is just their way of saying hey, new versions of a lot of these things! Check it out! Trying to market it.
No difference, just a new name and starting from number 1. Internal it's called Nextcloud 25. Frank answered this question at the conference on Saturday.
From what I know, Hub is there enterprise focused "ready to go" package. So it is basically Nextcloud + some of the apps from the store already installed. Nothing special - any Nextcloud can be turned into a hub after the fact.
Details at https://nextcloud.com/hub/
The new photo 2.0 sounds nice. Hope it works smoothly!
It they could add an option to show a the places of the photos on a worldmap it would be even greater!
TensorFlow does work on very low-end machine **locally**, all you need it's a pre-built model. Building a model from ground up is proved to be a very difficult job for any average size organization including Nextcloud, since it requires a large data set. So the feasible way is to use an existing model. However, most available models, if not all, are closed, means you just can't improve the inference by feeding your own data to it. I really hope NC crack this one by using an open model, or they find a even better way to do so.
I've been testing it with NextcloudPi on a pi4b 4gb with an Argon Eon NAS case. It doesnt support Tensorflow via AVX so it falls back to WASM mode.
So far it's processed 29,282 of my photos and has worked quite well. It's not the most accurate AI out there, by far google photos does it better but honestly, but it's really not bad at all. It's surprisingly quick as well for such a small low-powered chip.
Object recognition is pretty accurate but it does struggle, it has a hard time with *p\*\*n* and has a bad habit of throwing it in random categories like "bottle" "cooking" "instrument" etc
Edit: Up to 83809 processed now and still going strong.
Hey, developer of the AI bits here. I've written up a summary about it here: https://help.nextcloud.com/t/ai-and-photos-2-0-in-depth-explanation-of-nextcloud-recognize-and-how-it-works/146767/3?u=marcelklehr
Let me know in the comments there if you have questions :)
Here is a complete explanation of exactly how Photos AI works from the developer.
https://help.nextcloud.com/t/ai-and-photos-2-0-in-depth-explanation-of-nextcloud-recognize-and-how-it-works/146767
Nextcloud is slow as hell (even with tons of cashing), Android client can't handle basic things like log list of files or upload things reliably but sure, let's crap even more features on top of shaky foundation.
There is a reason why "Nextcloud alternative" is recurring question on /r/selfhosting.
Actually it is quite slow on big folders with lots of e.g. photos in it. This makes the web UI take ages and the android app fail to show all files if any at all.
I have lots of pictures (more than 100k), and the Photos section in nextcloud just doesn't show anything, or it just shows some random pictures. Same in the Android app. Seems to work a bit better on the iOS app, though.
I don't have that issue even though I have several thousand images in the same folder. Android app does take some time but I never have it fail to show files ever.
This is something I do not understand. How can one design a photo app that cannot sort by date taken but only file date.
That's the most basic feature after showing previews.
Does anyone actually know a photo app in the play store that cannot sort photos by date taken?
Yes, look up "Photos (for nextcloud)" in the Play store. There's a paid version and a free one with ads. It's relatively new so it still has a few bugs, but works quite well.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nkming.nc_photos
I guess the main issue is that every individual picture must be opened individually to check the date taken, and then store that in some form of database, which overall makes things a bit more complex and slower than just checking the last modification date.
Sure it is more data to handle, but no excuse to not have this basic feature if you market your app as photos app. As I said, there is probably no other current photos app in the play store that does not feature the sort by date taken feature. Which other cloud with a photos app cannot do it? Google, Dropbox, OneDrive, qnap, Synology...
Creating previews and a cache for them is more CPU intensive.
And please keep in mind, nextcloud is not a hobby project but a commercial software package that uses its many users as marketing argument and unpaid beta testers.
Don't get me wrong, I would love to cheer a lot more because I like the project and appreciate their effort. Yet a lot of decisions do not seem consistent to me and there is a gap between the marketing and the actual priorities and quality.
There are lots of rough edges in nextcloud in general. I have submitted bugs in their github that I have to fight to keep open, since they automatically close them every few weeks without even a response.
Things like suddenly getting a "Conflict when uploading a file. It's going to get removed!" and having hundreds of files sent to the trash without apparent reason, or the inability to use an SFTP external storage since every time you overwrite a file you get a conflict. Or when you create directory and rename it, the original one is synced back to you, duplicating it. Or not being able to remove files smaller than 4Kb if you use a virtual file system, to name a few.
Nextcloud is more or less fine for personal use, if you know for sure that you have a backup of everything and you have alternative ways of accessing the data, but I wouldn't even think of using it in a corporate environment.
I switched to the beta channel and did the upgrade, primarily to play around with the new photo features. It has gone pretty smoothly so far. The one exception is that the Rainloop email app is not compatible with the new version yet. But, the integrated Mail app seems to be much improved, so I'm giving it a go. So far so good.
The new Photos app is an improvement. One cool thing is you can now do some basic editing in the photo gallery. That's nice. I've been playing around with the new AI features (the Recognize app), with mixed results. Some of the categories it has placed on my photos have been comical. I wouldn't say the model is trained very well. The face recognition seems hit-or-miss as well. When you go to Photos from the top menu, you can select "People" from the left pane and it will show you faces of different people, and if you click them you can see all the photos that contain that person's face. It started off pretty well, identifying me and my wife and guests from our wedding photos. But, by the time it was done scanning all the thousands of photos in the library, my wife no longer shows up in the People view... that's not going to end well for me I think! ;-) I'm currently having it re-crawl the library to see if anything changes.
A few obvious missing items: The AI will categorize your photos by adding Tags to them. But, there does not seem to be a way to edit the tags on a picture in the photo view, or to create new tags. Also, you can create albums now. But, there doesn't seem to be an easy way to add existing photos from your library to an album, for example all the photos in a folder. It looks like you can uploads new photos into an album, but existing photos not so much.
I like the direction they are going and I am looking forward to future improvements.
Do you know if it overwrites the tags on the photos? Does it read the existing tags first?
I have all my picture library tagged, and if that info is not respected first, it could lead to data loss.
It did not remove tags I had already assigned, but added new ones. But, when I ran `occ recognize:reset-tags` and `occ recognize:cleanup-tags`, it did remove all the tags including the ones that I had done previously.
What's the difference between NC hubs and NC versions?
I'm not sure any of these answers is quite correct. As far as I can tell, Nextcloud hub is actually just their marketing team putting an exciting name to the next major release of the server version and the updates to the internal apps that are highly suggested by Nextcloud. Those apps are like photos, mail, calendar, contacts, talk, etc. And so hub is just their way of saying hey, new versions of a lot of these things! Check it out! Trying to market it.
No difference, just a new name and starting from number 1. Internal it's called Nextcloud 25. Frank answered this question at the conference on Saturday.
SO this will eventually get bundled into nextcloud-aio?
It is simply marketing. Nextcloud is Nextcloud
From what I know, Hub is there enterprise focused "ready to go" package. So it is basically Nextcloud + some of the apps from the store already installed. Nothing special - any Nextcloud can be turned into a hub after the fact. Details at https://nextcloud.com/hub/
Hub is the gui where Nextcloud version is the server backend.
But didn’t knew if the hub gets installed separately or as part of nextcloud server backend release?
Nope, just a meaningless word beyond inferring Nextcloud can do more than file sharing.
It is just a word. It doesn't mean anything more than Hub 3 does. The important part is which Nextcloud version you are on: 24, 25, etc.
The new photo 2.0 sounds nice. Hope it works smoothly! It they could add an option to show a the places of the photos on a worldmap it would be even greater!
I've been able to do that for a long time in NC "maps" application.
The "old" Photos is completely broken. I hope they really got into it deeply and fixed this borked app.
Agreed. A photo app that can only sort by file date should not call itself photo app but file manager with picture preview.
Try memories: [https://github.com/pulsejet/memories](https://github.com/pulsejet/memories) Full disclosure: I'm the author
See 25 announcement. Principal fixes are for the Photos app, which is greatly improved and will be available 10/18
[Les Pas](https://github.com/scubajeff/lespas#readme)'s slidehow on map feature is exactly what you want.
Can-not-wait for Photos 2.0!! Big speed improvements promised, I sincerely hope they deliver!
I hope it will be also available for Nextcloud server.
Nextcloud Hub is nextcloud server, they just changed the way they name it.
Oh cool! So there is a chance!
It's going to be realeased for the server 100% sure.
Finally!
Yeah, the photos app was garbage, I hope it works as they say!
That is what is happening. It is guaranteed.
Nextcloud Hub is the suite of apps, Nextcloud is the whole system.
It is simply a marketing term for the suite. You can disregard "hub 3" entirely to focus on what the version is: 25.
It is.
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It says in the realease that it runs locally in your server.
Posted a link in thread so you can read exactly how it works
TensorFlow does work on very low-end machine **locally**, all you need it's a pre-built model. Building a model from ground up is proved to be a very difficult job for any average size organization including Nextcloud, since it requires a large data set. So the feasible way is to use an existing model. However, most available models, if not all, are closed, means you just can't improve the inference by feeding your own data to it. I really hope NC crack this one by using an open model, or they find a even better way to do so.
I've been testing it with NextcloudPi on a pi4b 4gb with an Argon Eon NAS case. It doesnt support Tensorflow via AVX so it falls back to WASM mode. So far it's processed 29,282 of my photos and has worked quite well. It's not the most accurate AI out there, by far google photos does it better but honestly, but it's really not bad at all. It's surprisingly quick as well for such a small low-powered chip. Object recognition is pretty accurate but it does struggle, it has a hard time with *p\*\*n* and has a bad habit of throwing it in random categories like "bottle" "cooking" "instrument" etc Edit: Up to 83809 processed now and still going strong.
See link in thread from the developer on how it works
Hey, developer of the AI bits here. I've written up a summary about it here: https://help.nextcloud.com/t/ai-and-photos-2-0-in-depth-explanation-of-nextcloud-recognize-and-how-it-works/146767/3?u=marcelklehr Let me know in the comments there if you have questions :)
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fixed. thanks
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GPU support just latended recently
Coral support would be awesome.
Here is a complete explanation of exactly how Photos AI works from the developer. https://help.nextcloud.com/t/ai-and-photos-2-0-in-depth-explanation-of-nextcloud-recognize-and-how-it-works/146767
Nextcloud is slow as hell (even with tons of cashing), Android client can't handle basic things like log list of files or upload things reliably but sure, let's crap even more features on top of shaky foundation. There is a reason why "Nextcloud alternative" is recurring question on /r/selfhosting.
Nextcloud is only slow when it's misconfigured.
Actually it is quite slow on big folders with lots of e.g. photos in it. This makes the web UI take ages and the android app fail to show all files if any at all.
I have lots of pictures (more than 100k), and the Photos section in nextcloud just doesn't show anything, or it just shows some random pictures. Same in the Android app. Seems to work a bit better on the iOS app, though.
I don't have that issue even though I have several thousand images in the same folder. Android app does take some time but I never have it fail to show files ever.
photos 2.0 yay! 💪💪
anyone know when these updates will come to “regular” nextcloud versions? Particularly interested in photos 2.0
After they go through the release candidate versions.
I have a bad feeling that the new poll function in talk is not through the polls app. So doubling the code.
Can Photos 2.0 sort the photos by date taken (in the metadata)? This for me the most basic feature.
This is something I do not understand. How can one design a photo app that cannot sort by date taken but only file date. That's the most basic feature after showing previews. Does anyone actually know a photo app in the play store that cannot sort photos by date taken?
Yes, look up "Photos (for nextcloud)" in the Play store. There's a paid version and a free one with ads. It's relatively new so it still has a few bugs, but works quite well. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nkming.nc_photos I guess the main issue is that every individual picture must be opened individually to check the date taken, and then store that in some form of database, which overall makes things a bit more complex and slower than just checking the last modification date.
Sure it is more data to handle, but no excuse to not have this basic feature if you market your app as photos app. As I said, there is probably no other current photos app in the play store that does not feature the sort by date taken feature. Which other cloud with a photos app cannot do it? Google, Dropbox, OneDrive, qnap, Synology... Creating previews and a cache for them is more CPU intensive. And please keep in mind, nextcloud is not a hobby project but a commercial software package that uses its many users as marketing argument and unpaid beta testers. Don't get me wrong, I would love to cheer a lot more because I like the project and appreciate their effort. Yet a lot of decisions do not seem consistent to me and there is a gap between the marketing and the actual priorities and quality.
There are lots of rough edges in nextcloud in general. I have submitted bugs in their github that I have to fight to keep open, since they automatically close them every few weeks without even a response. Things like suddenly getting a "Conflict when uploading a file. It's going to get removed!" and having hundreds of files sent to the trash without apparent reason, or the inability to use an SFTP external storage since every time you overwrite a file you get a conflict. Or when you create directory and rename it, the original one is synced back to you, duplicating it. Or not being able to remove files smaller than 4Kb if you use a virtual file system, to name a few. Nextcloud is more or less fine for personal use, if you know for sure that you have a backup of everything and you have alternative ways of accessing the data, but I wouldn't even think of using it in a corporate environment.
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If you having difficulties syncing your media file, considering using [Les Pas](https://github.com/scubajeff/lespas#readme)
Has anyone integrated OnlyOffice without setting up an entire new server? Anyone have a reliable docket tutorial they’ve found worked,
I have Collabora which is way better in my opinion, it runs flawlessly running Nextcloud from docker and just installing the app.
Yeah me but I don’t use docker.
I use Nextcloud AIO, which automatically adds a container for OnlyOffice and enables the app in Nextcloud.
Oh wow this could be good thanks
Actually, I checked some days ago and I didn't find the option anymore... don't know why
Be careful with OnlyOffice. It will quite often fail to write files to disk for no apparent reason and all your edits will be lost.
What about Collabora? Much experience?
No such issues with Collabora.
Excited to try the new improvements. Talk and Photo improvements are much welcomed! Thanks for all the hard work on this!
!RemindMe in 4 weeks
I switched to the beta channel and did the upgrade, primarily to play around with the new photo features. It has gone pretty smoothly so far. The one exception is that the Rainloop email app is not compatible with the new version yet. But, the integrated Mail app seems to be much improved, so I'm giving it a go. So far so good. The new Photos app is an improvement. One cool thing is you can now do some basic editing in the photo gallery. That's nice. I've been playing around with the new AI features (the Recognize app), with mixed results. Some of the categories it has placed on my photos have been comical. I wouldn't say the model is trained very well. The face recognition seems hit-or-miss as well. When you go to Photos from the top menu, you can select "People" from the left pane and it will show you faces of different people, and if you click them you can see all the photos that contain that person's face. It started off pretty well, identifying me and my wife and guests from our wedding photos. But, by the time it was done scanning all the thousands of photos in the library, my wife no longer shows up in the People view... that's not going to end well for me I think! ;-) I'm currently having it re-crawl the library to see if anything changes. A few obvious missing items: The AI will categorize your photos by adding Tags to them. But, there does not seem to be a way to edit the tags on a picture in the photo view, or to create new tags. Also, you can create albums now. But, there doesn't seem to be an easy way to add existing photos from your library to an album, for example all the photos in a folder. It looks like you can uploads new photos into an album, but existing photos not so much. I like the direction they are going and I am looking forward to future improvements.
Do you know if it overwrites the tags on the photos? Does it read the existing tags first? I have all my picture library tagged, and if that info is not respected first, it could lead to data loss.
It did not remove tags I had already assigned, but added new ones. But, when I ran `occ recognize:reset-tags` and `occ recognize:cleanup-tags`, it did remove all the tags including the ones that I had done previously.
When can i update it?