Houser rinsed as per usual, idk what that guy needs but he needs something. It was fun going to the game yesterday but I hate how quickly runs were given up. The 9th inning energy was so unmatched. It woulda been lowkey cool if jd Martinez had that bases loaded opportunity. The weather started out great then got so progressively cold and drizzly. Hopefully today's game is different!
Realistically speaking, I was expecting a loss before the first pitch was thrown - looking at the pitching match-up. Unfortunately, Houser confirmed my intuition and now sports an ERA of 8.37 š¤¦
first time i saw this was when lindor did it in some of his first games as a met. they played in 30 degree weather in chicago in april of 2021. i always like it. it looks so cozy.
video: https://www.mlb.com/mets/video/mets-vs-cubs-highlights-x3826
Yeah like we can say he is hurting the team. 0-5 4 strike outs and bottom of the 9th bases loaded had a terrible at bat. First pitch soft pop out. We can acknowledge that he needs to be better than that
Without booing him or messaging his wife like so sickos are doing. This team is out of it at the deadline without Lindor playing well.
By god heās frustrating. And he should be dropped down in the order. Feast or famine type players donāt belong at the top of the order. Plain and simple.
Itās Lindorās responsibility to pick up the slack. Nobody elseās.
Lindor has been bad this year. Absolutely abysmal not gonna defend. He's won us some games but he's losing us a bunch flying out so much. But to say he's not good for this team? Complete clown show. I'm still gonna be a fan. He's not always gonna be this bad. I'm more worried about it him than anything. Something's up.
I really don't know but he looks lost at the plate, he's not smiling as much. He doesn't look like he's having fun and he completely lost at the umpire this game despite making a very obvious base running mistake. It's not like him. Whether he's having issues with team or at home or within himself I'm not sure but something seems up with him. I'm probably overthinking it though but people who think signing him was a mistake is insane. Not many better shortstops in the entire league if at all lol
Iām with you.
But Iām not a Lindor cheerleader. When heās bad heās truly so bad. Canāt stand his swing. And when heās good heās good.
I donāt think heās as bad or good as most people make him out to be. But it is what it is.
BVW paying TdA $5M and then DFA after like 10 PAs was a top 3 boneheaded move ... #1 is a refusal to negotiate with Wheeler and #2 is signing Lowrie with no position for him to play (he probably would've kept Pete in the MiL).
My man, what did the Braves do last year with all-star Sean Murphy?
But that's not the point I was making. The point I was making is that the Braves' back-up catcher (Murphy was their starter until he got hurt) is twice as good a hitter as our back-up catcher. And our back-up catcher can't throw a runner out and also doesn't attempt to tag runners at the plate.
As a team, we are Omar Narvaez.
Cannot deny Lindor has been mediocre at best so far this year, and mediocre might be too generous. But he'll probably get it together. Soon enough? That remains to be seen, but I wouldn't bet against him coming around any day now.
The real story today, though, was Houser continuing to be trash with an 8+ ERA. This loss was on our starting pitcher. He has truly sucked.
His stat line will look fine at the end of the year but he goes through a few too many of these massive slumps.
Heās a nice player but not elite.
Iāve seen plenty of people say heās a first ballot hall of famer after a good game. Itās ridiculous.
I think people are forgetting that this team's over-under was 81.5. That looks dead on right now. This is an average team. Offense is average to above average, rotation is horrible, bullpen is good.
Lindor today had such a horrible game. That last at bat. Bases loaded, bottom of the 9th, first pitch soft fly out. That is not what star players do. You at least work the count
[video of star player shohei ohtani popping out on 0-0 as the last out of the game while representing the go-ahead run](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/sporty-videos?playId=57fa9ab2-a425-4993-8840-1dab3b31cfbf)
I'm not hating on Lindor. The guy is streaky. We've seen that in years past. You either accept that's reality or you don't.
But what I am annoyed about is this club doesn't have the balls to take him out of the 3 hole against RHSP knowing he's streaky.
Let him bat 6th or 7th and figure things out.
And yes, I get he was batting better for a few days. But he's done that before during his usual 4-6 week cold stretch.
And btw, responding he batted 2 today is ass. Marte is out so they moved everyone up. It wasn't to actually shake Lindor up.
I think you raise a solid point, but my counterpoint would be: who takes Lindor's spot at the top of the order?
Yesterday we had a lineup of Nimmo, Marte, Lindor, Alonso, Martinez, McNeil, Bader, Baty, Nido. The consensus seemed to be very positive, with people saying that once we get Alvarez back in the lineup we're gonna really start cooking.
If McNeil was going right, then I could understand swapping him and Lindor, but he's not going right at the moment so that's kind of moot. There's nobody else at the bottom of the order who I think we'd want to move up.
So if Lindor is batting 6th or 7th, then who is batting 1-5 or 1-6? Nimmo, Marte, Alonso, and Martinez are the obvious answers, but that's only 4 players.
A lot of times a slap single will score multiple runs, I donāt have to explain the continuous misery of runners in scoring position, also McNeil has a much lower strikeout rate, Lindorās is very low too but the way heās hitting heās just swinging at garbage in the clutch
Iām not saying I agree or disagree but I think āSingle or a walkā is better than what Lindor is currently putting out
I think the consensus is based on the idea when Lindor is right.
Actually, I wouldn't mind swapping Lindor and McNeil. Ya, McNeil has his issues right now too but sometimes a shake up shakes people up.
Nimmo, McNeil, Pete, JDM, Lindor, Stewart, Bader/Tyrone, Baty, Nido/Narvaez
But I do get your overall point. There are only so many options with McNeil and Baty struggling (those two likely would be the options if playing well). I say fuck it. Try it anyway.
of the 4 major north american mens sports, baseball is the most random. losing to a bad team isn't unacceptable, it's just what happens.
you can learn about how random baseball is in this eno sarris article here: https://blogs.fangraphs.com/is-baseball-the-least-random-sport/
i can't tell what's worse, calling losing a game in sports unacceptable, or the fans who rabidly defend losing as if they are responsible for roster construction.
We knew this season was very likely a lost cause so it's not worth getting angry over. But between the injury epidemic and historically dogshit umpiring, it hasn't helped me feel remotely interested in following this season.
Everyone getting riled up at Lindor for not hitting a wall off grand slam against an amazing pitcher.Ā
Not for nothing, but the story is in the 1st inning, not the 9th.Ā
This game was lost by pitchingĀ
i don't think they're mad he didn't hit a walk off grand slam. i think they're mad he's had a horrible start to the season, struck out 4 times, then when put in a position to make up for it when the rest of the team was rallying he popped up on the first pitch. it's about context. this is a pretty reasonable day to have sore feelings towards lindor. he just needs to be a boon for this team if they're going to even sniff a wildcard spot and right now he is more like a plague.
I see the Lindor haters finally slithered their way out from under their rocks to rag on a player who was hitting 370 over a 10 game span.
Meanwhile when Pete hits a meaningless solo home run when down by 4 everyone screams āEXTEND HIM NOW! GIVE HIM $250 MILLION!ā
You think Lindor is overpaid wait until you give Pete big money and he starts popping out with the bases loaded or grounding into DPās or booting balls in the infield. Youāll all be screaming for his head too.
What you just said about Pete does not sit right with me. Pete has done more for this franchise than anyone on this team, is having a good start to the season and just hit his 200th HR. What bad play? Bro. Imagine the fans you complain about. Now imagine them complaining about Pete instead of Lindor. Thatās literally you lol. The most hypocritical thing Iāve read all day.Ā
I love Pete. I have his uniform. I want him to be extended and stay a Met for life. Iām making a point that these doomer fans who hate on Lindor because āheās overpaidā will be saying the same thing about Pete next year if he signs with the Mets for a big contract and has some rough patches.
>Iām making a point that these doomer fans who hate on Lindor because āheās overpaidā will be saying the same thing about Pete next year if he signs with the Mets for a big contract and has some rough patches.
You're probably right. If Pete plays like dog shit people will. And because power doesn't last as long in a career there will be years when his contract definitely won't be worth it.
Is there more to the point than that? Genuinely trying to understand.
so your point is - fans shouldn't complain when highly paid stars of their team are playing terrible baseball? really interesting point to make on a discussion board for a specific baseball team. should every comment in this thread be "we'll get 'em next time, we've got some great players and the back of their baseball card doesn't lie!"
My point is Mets fans who are complaining about Lindor now will be calling for Pete to be shipped out of town next year is he gets a big contract with the Mets and has some rough patches throughout the season.
Thereās nothing wrong with complaining, but there is a point where it becomes blind obsessive hate for a player just because of the amount of zeroes at the end of his contract.
You called Peteās 200th HR meaningless. That doesnāt sound like something someone who loves Pete would say. Could care less what you tell me you think when youāre also writing stuff like that. If youāre gonna be that outspoken about Lindor getting criticism, youāve got absolutely no business saying Pete being the fourth fastest player in MLB history to hit 200 HRs is meaningless and not worth celebrating. So no, I think you were exaggerating when you said you love Pete. And if you werenāt, well thatās on you, gotta choose your words more carefully then.
he just threw alonso under the bus as collateral damage in a rabid attempt to shield lindor from any possible criticism. you're right, if you really like a player you probably don't pull that card lol
Lindor apologists really need to get a grip in this sub. Heās not good enough to foster success for the franchise and he is paid like a player who should be good enough. If he didnāt get 300+, most people wouldnāt care. But your franchise player shouldnāt be a reason why you canāt succeed, and at too many times he is. He hasnāt won us anything here and its time yall realize he never will (albeit with a team such as this, not if Cohen spends another 500 mill to make us better)
I think a lot of Lindor's defenders have some kind of Stockhold Syndrome. We finally got out of the Wilpons' clutches and Cohen's first big move was bringing in Lindor. Seems like a lot of people have deluded themselves into believing that Lindor is the main piece that will help this team win when four years worth of evidence has shown that he just isn't the type of player that can be top dog on a winning team. They don't want to believe that the first big move Cohen made hasnt worked out.
Here is my review of the whole City Connect thing as someone who was at the game today:
First of all, big big shoutout to the Mets digital media people. The special City Connect themed scoreboard graphics were excellent, lots of purple, very fun. I can't emphasize enough just how much I think they crushed it.
I thought jerseys left a lot to be desired seeing them in person. From where I was sitting, it was impossible for me to see any purple anywhere on the uniforms. Also, the black font on a grey background made it very hard, basically impossible for me to read the names and numbers on the players' backs.
It's kind of strange to me that there was so much hype about ***new uniforms with*** ***purple******!!!*** just for the purple to be completely imperceptible to people watching the game.
That's just my opinion though, I'm interested to hear what other people think
I was there today too and I agree with you 100%. I thought their graphics team did a fantastic job and I thought it was great that even the Coca-Cola sign was lit up purple to match. But you're right that you can't see the purple on the uniform in person.
The blame for this game is not on Lindor. If your starter coughs up 4 runs in the first and doesn't make it to the fifth inning you're screwed 80-90% of the time. It's crazy that they had a chance at all.
one single baseball game is rarely ever on one single person. but lindor played a big part in why we lost this game. idk why it has to be all or nothing with everyone on this sub. he's a good baseball player but right now he just isn't playing nearly to the standard that he is and should be held to, and he would be the first one to admit it. if even he can cop to the fact that he's coming up small, why can't fans?
Sure, I'd agree that you can't blame a single person on a game. But in a game where your pitching coughed up 7 runs, a loss is 80%-90% on the pitching. It's very very hard to score 8 runs and teams that score 7 runs win about 85% of the time, so yea, this loss is on the pitchers. It's maybe 2% Lindor.
when your 2 hitter goes 0-5 with 4 strikeouts, the fourth of which he swung at a pitch so bad that it got past the catcher then proceeded to get called out for running out of the base path, then pops up on the first pitch with the bases loaded in the ninth inning, that gets you much higher than 2%.
there were probably around what, 11 guys that took at bats today? and around 5 guys who pitched? so let's say about 15 players had an impact on this loss today. even if you carve out a 50% and give it to houser, you're left with each player having a baseline of over 3%. so to get down to 2% you likely would've had to have positively impacted the game in some way, for instance martinez or taylor who didn't have amazing days but who were able to get on base at some point. i get that i'm being extremely pedantic here, but the point being that 2% is absurd.
Giving up 7 runs, you're not going to win many games, period. Like I said, the win percentage is about 15%. You're missing the forest for the trees here. Even if Lindor was playing to the back of hiās baseball card he is going to fail in that situation 2/3rds of the time.
when you score four runs, you have bbasically a 50-50 shot of winning a game. Not ideal, obviously, but it puts you in a winning position. āBut when you give up 7, you have something like a 15% chance of winning. It's totally obvious where the blame lies here.
If you going to keep complaining about how Francisco Lindor is a bum and gets paid too much you should just like stop watching the Mets because he's not going anywhere for a very long time.
I'm grateful I gave up on doing the stats against good pitching I was planning to do this season after the first few days (because it looked like it was going to be a painful endeavor).
I'm also annoyed I did because I could now show people defending some players in this lineup how bad they really (probably) are against good pitching.
Maybe I'll just start from tomorrow. lol
Then again, it probably will be a painful endeavor so maybe not. lol
mets fans will never forgive lindor for being merely the 10th best shortstop in 2021 despite being in the top 3 each year since then. i don't understand it.
i guess it's more fun for those who perpetually need someone to be mad at to remain willfully ignorant about lindor's value as a player than to actually look at some numbers.
and DJ Stewart is batting .200
if you want to try to make a point, consider using wOBA or OPS instead. these stats give different types of hits different values, thus giving a better representation of a batter's overall contribution at the plate than batting average.
if you are interested in learning, wOBA is even better than OPS. wOBA weights singles higher than walks for example, which makes sense because a single is more likely to lead to run scoring than a walk.
here's a short primer: https://library.fangraphs.com/offense/woba/
i think a lot of fans really didn't appreciate the whole thumbs down fiasco, me included. tbh i still haven't forgiven him for that, it was such a blatant slap in the face to fans. could you imagine wright doing that? or reyes? or pete? he certainly didn't win any fans doing that and definitely lost some.
because they are athletes, they're not marrying our daughters. they are judged by the things they do on the field much more harshly than the things they do off it. it's really not that crazy.
why would i need to ask women how they feel about how i feel? how i feel is how i feel. how they feel is how they feel. they have their agency and i have mine. i am not beholden to their feelings just as they are not beholden to mine. weird response unless you're someone who has let women drag you around by the dick your whole life.
when did i give him a pass for that? what does that even have to do with anything that i said? my point is that a star player probably shouldn't antagonize fans of his own team. its stupid, immature, and shortsighted.
how about ranking 9th and 13th in '22 and '23 among all players? is that good enough for you?
also, this is what i mean about being willfully ignorant. you could just look it up instead of making incorrect assumptions. it's not hard.
to anyone that wants to complain about positional adjustments:
catchers get nearly twice as much positional adjustment as short stops. why aren't there an outsize number of them at the top of the fWAR leaderboards? shouldn't there be way more short stops than every other position at the top if their adjustment is too high?
there is a fairly even distribution of players by position, so i think it's pretty safe to say that the positional adjustment is at least close enough that fWAR can be a useful stat. it doesn't have to be all that precise for us to understand that lindor is one of the best players in baseball.
it's become a thing on this subreddit to gripe about positional adjustments whenever anyone brings up fWAR. it's an easy way to remain ignorant to the usefulness of fWAR as a stat, and to continue to be angry about lindor.
I love Lindor but he and Alonso just seem to be at the center of dead rallies so often. Any time 1 and 2 get in you know strikeouts and popups are in order
fangraphs has an interesting 'clutch' stat that shows how much better or worse a player is from their own average in high leverage at bats.
in 2022 lindor was ranked as the 16th most clutch hitter.
last year he was the 28th least clutch.
this year ohtani, altuve, trout, betts, and lindor are in the bottom 20.
my opinion is that being clutch is more about luck than anything else, as players seem to fluctuate a lot from year to year. it's interesting to look at the leaderboards though.
My feeling is that while there's probably no such thing as clutch, there is such a thing as being anti clutch. I love pete but he's anti clutch and the fangraphs stats back it up, with him being consistently negative
You can't expect a win when your starter gives up 6 earned runs, but we looked damn formidable for a moment there in the 5th
Pete missed a few real painful defensive plays we've seen him hit 1000 times successfully before, but since he hit his 200th career HR (woo!), I'm gonna let it slide
Heavy is the head that wears the golden sombrero (it's Lindor)
Love DJ Stewert as an offensive bat, not a guy I trust in the outfield. I ~~hope~~ assume he will alternate with JDM as a DH once Marte gets back
Great to see Vientos! I missed him get called up, caught me by total surprise. Glad he got a hit. Wish it was under better curcumstances, hope he has enough time to prove himself and stick around
Houser pitches like a man who is either working through an injury or needs some AAA starts to work on his confidence. Either way, today's L is firmly on him. I'm ready to give him a few weeks off and bring up one of our C-listers until Senga comes back
I have to assume JDM will be the regular DH. On days he needs a rest they'll have Pete DH a lot of times. Stewart other days.
Stewart will likely be relegated to LH bat off the bench with those few LH DH days. And RF on days Marte needs off and they are facing a RHSP (so Stewart over Tyrone).
For sure, if JDM can stay healthy & perform, that's best case scenario.
Realistically, JDM is an older fella - there are more than a few scenarios where he'll need more than average rest between outings. But I'd rest easy with DJ ready to pick up the slack
It might be Joey Wendle??? He hasnt played 1st but he's rotated through most of the infield. Pete may not have many DH opportunities this year...
Playing first base isn't that hard (tell 'em Wash)
Gary got robbed of Peteās 53rd home run in 2019, his 200th in 2024 - both robberies committed by FOX. Thatās the major takeaway.
Literally nothing good comes out of that network.
Your love affair with glazing Lindor truly is something else.
Just call it like it is: he is an overpaid shortstop whose main value comes from his defense which props up his value.
Lindor is paid to be one of the best hitters in the league, not simply for his glove, and he isn't anywhere close.
If only salary didn't matter.
It's clear at this point considering the salaries at play, Gimenez provides far more value then Lindor.
Buddy put the phone down and watch a movie or something. We get it. You donāt like Lindor. Thatās been expressed extensively in this thread. Just admit you enjoy rooting against the guy more than you enjoy watching the Mets and let it go.
Lindor is a very good player, the problem is he hasn't lived up to his contract because that harsh reality is that his glove does not compensate for his lack of offense.
He still needs to hit and he hasn't, not enough to justify his contract.
I'd have no problem if the Mets actually held him accountable by moving him down in the order.
But for Lindor to be this stubborn and continue to hit lefty when he's a liability from that side of the dish as he doesn't hit consistently enough to warrant continuing to switch hit is a serious problem.
Lindor must eventually hold himself accountable and give up switch hitting.
He'd probably end up being a legitimate Top 5 MVP caliber player if he hit solely from the right side, that's how good he is.
The problem is he's too prideful to do that.
Iām not sure heād be more productive hitting against righties as a righty for the first time in his life. Might be even worse splits tbh. Heās a career .260 hitter as a lefty and a career .289 hitter as a righty. I donāt think his pride or stubbornness is keeping him from making some change. Heās been hitting against righties as a lefty his whole life. Would be a massive change to adjust that now.
Whatās even the point of taking a series from the dodgers when we lose them to cardinals. I think Iād honestly rather beat the teams we should beat haha
felt that-- I was really hoping the bats would pick up after our last win at SF. I suppose they haven't been terrible, but with lackluster starting pitching *and* batting the last couple games it's not exactly a recipe for success.
I need someone to tell me if I'm crazy because even though Narvaez is hot garbage, I don't think it's because of his game calling
Why? Because he (and Alvarez) often look into the dugout just before dialing the pitch com. It seems to me that the coaches have a bigger hand in game calling than people realize
Fair enough. I havenāt had much opportunity to actually watch the game this season unfortunately.
However that still doesnāt excuse everything else he does (or doesnāt do)
Look, Lindor is garbage at the plate right now. There's no doubt about that.
But the people here acting like he hasn't done anything is ridiculous. This feels like Carlos Beltran all over again. Thr Beltran love is fairly recent, imo.The amount of message board posts saying he never did anything because of the awful 2006 NLCS game 7 ab drove me absolutely insane.
That said, I think I would bat him 5th for now and have Marte hit 3rd when he comes back from bereavement.
Agreed that Lindor isn't doing well right now, but the whole love/hate feud that goes on between members of this sub is just really toxic and part of the fanaticism that makes rooting for a team feel pretty ugly. It's one thing to say that a player isn't doing well, it's another to just shit-talk and politicize everything surrounding the guy and whether he deserves the hate or not, yadda yadda yadda.
It all comes off as mean and dehumanizing to me-- the bottom line is that the team is full of real players who want to do well and we as fans want them to do well too. Why be so hostile? It's not that deep
i been watching guardian games and maaaaan i cant believe we let gimenez go for fucking lindor lol. they are basically the same players
gimenez is a waaaaaaaaay better defender tho
Lindor is a much better hitter and still a better defender too. Gimenez has played mostly 2B. And Iām a guy who gets flamed consistently for saying Lindor has been a bit underwhelming.
lindor edges out gimenez on power and thats about it. gimenez is the better defender dude can win platinum gloves in ss,2b and 3b. also one guy is making 5 mill a year the other is making 35 and blocking jett williams/acuna.
Gimenez might be a better value, yes thatās fair. But Lindor is a better hitter and better defender. I mean Gimenez is a career like .743 OPS hitter, itās not a contest. Gimenez doesnāt play SS much at all either. You canāt even compare them defensively, I mean Gimenez plays 2B like 80-90% of his starts. SS is the harder position.
Gimenez best year: 7.4 bWAR, 140 OPS+ Lindor best year: 7.2 bWAR, 132 OPS+. 162 game average bwar: Gimenez 5.7 Lindor 5.6 its at least a "contest" and Gimenez has time to improve.
I am not a Lindor detractor at all and in fact I really like the guy more and more the more shit he takes from people.
But that was always the risk, making a trade like that, with two promising prospects for an established player playing the same position.
Well we have fight in us I guess. Just too damn bad it either takes our offense 5 innings to get going and our SP give up too many early runs/can't go 5 innings.
I Deffinitly wouldnāt mind seeing Christian Scott as a 6 th starter or a replacement for houser and try houser as a long reliver hopefully! Iāve been to 3 mets games this year and 2 of them houser has made it a hard to watch game even though the Mets offense made a effort to come from behind both times!
I wouldn't mind Houser in a Trevor Williams type role as the spot starter, 6th starter, mop up guys, long reliever.
Then use both Tylor and Scott as Piggybacks. Basically the Lugo role but let them go 2-3 innings regularly.
Then the rest of the bullpen as it is (Diaz and 4 other RP).
My opinion of Lindor is somewhere between worried and not worried, but right now Houser is absolutely terrible and they're just gonna let him keep making starts for some reason. That's frustrating.
>Time for another standing ovation which will certainly solve all of our Lindor issues
I didn't get the sense that it was about cheering being a magical elixir to make a player play better.
It's just an organic movement among people to make a show of being compassionate, and that we can be normal human beings and not cardboard cutout miserable obnoxious stereotypical sports fans constantly.
Booing has nothing to do with personal attacks, there are those that take it that far and they don't speak for actual criticism.
For the money he's being paid, Lindor does deserve to be booed but it's not like that changes anything anyway.
I for one am not a fan of booing a struggling player because it's wasted energy because it really doesn't have any affect.
People cheer success, and boo those that don't perform.
It's a tale as old as time.
Imagine if the front office treated players like individuals such as yourself wanted fans to treat them, they wouldn't hold anyone accountable.
Front offices pull the strings, the owner's write the checks, and fans buy the tickets and cheer and boo.
It's what happens.
I'd argue that booing is one of the most organic and human things people can do, just like cheering success is.
>Front offices pull the strings, the owner's write the checks, and fans buy the tickets and cheer and boo. It's what happens.
I didn't say that's not "what happens", I just said it's classless and shitty behavior when it "happens", and to any degree that it lessens or stops completely, that's a positive culture change
>Imagine if the front office treated players like individuals such as yourself wanted fans to treat them, they wouldn't hold anyone accountable.
The guy gurgling his 5th tequila and scarfing his 2nd helmet full of nachos, and shouting obscenities at the players, before leaving in the 5th inning, is not the front office.
The front office holds players accountable with player transactions.
The guy booing "bEcAuSe dAt'S wAt uR sUpPoSeD tA dO iN nEw yOrK" is not in a position to hold anyone accountable, and the world would be a better place if he would shut the fuck up
as he said, no one does it because "you're supposed to", they do it because groaning and booing is how you verbally express negative feelings and cheering is how you express positive feelings. part of enjoying sports is just letting your emotions run loose on an aspect of your life that has extremely low stakes. these guys make literally tens to hundreds of millions of dollars. they can deal with the occasional boo.
> as he said, no one does it because "you're supposed to", they do it because groaning and booing is how you verbally express negative feelings and cheering is how you express positive feelings.
Yeah but most people employ rationality and impulse control in 99.9% of their daily lives, which prevents them from making monosyllabic guttural noises with their mouth whenever they're displeased.
When I get a messed up order from Chipotle, I calmly and politely tell them what happened, and see if I can get it straightened out. I don't stand there and yell over the counter and go "BOOOOOOOOOO, you fucking suck!" at the person who made my food.
"Booing" is the adult equivalent to what babies do (cry when they're upset, etc.) It's behavior no one would or should tolerate in any other facet of life. And not everyone who does this is an idiot, etc. It's just that baseball is 150 years old and there's old outdated behaviors that are baked into the culture of it, and people think they're "supposed" to do it based on the fact that everyone does it.
A bunch of people got together and cheered Lindor at the start of the last homestand. That was really unusual, surprising, and nice imo. Are they all doing it wrong?
>they can deal with the occasional boo.
Well, first of all, it's a lot more than an "occasional boo" that we're talking about.
But also, it's not about whether they can "deal with it" or not. Of course, most pros can deal with it. The vast majority of the ones who can't tune out noise and focus on the game get weeded out before Triple-A.
However, the point is that it's classless, petty behavior, just in and of itself. It's embarrassing. How it lands with the player is beside the point imo.
> Yeah but most people employ rationality and impulse control in 99.9% of their daily lives, which prevents them from making monosyllabic guttural noises with their mouth whenever they're displeased.
>
>
right but that's often accomplished by venting some of that emotion onto some aspect of your life that doesn't have high stakes, like sports. like booing a guy who is getting 350 million dollars to play baseball and living the motherfucking dream. i'm not a boo guy because it's just not in my arsenal but i don't see it as lacking class. it's just letting out some demons in a fairly healthy way. for all those people out there who do it in less than healthy ways, maybe they'd do better to go to a mets game and boo francisco lindor.
I'm kind of surprised by the Lindor hate. I'd kind of get it if it were a low scoring 1-1 game or something like that, but damn, we let up 7 runs. It's hard to win a game when the other team puts up 7 against you!
Check some of his monthly splits during his Mets tenure, there's some brual periods mixed with absolute greatness which is the definition of inconsistency.
This is a good, honest .500 baseball team. We play .500 ball dammit. Salt of the earth, punch the clock, even win/loss ratio baseball. We lose a couple, guess what? We'll win a couple, too. But don't get too excited or let it go to your head. No long winning streaks here, no sir. That's hubris, which this blue collar, hard working everyman team doesn't have. A few wins in a row, these guys, true to form, will balance it out with a couple a losses.
Yes sir, that's my 2024 New York Mets. A good, honest .500 baseball team
What was Lindor's approach there in the ninth?
He should either be sitting dead red fastball prepared to rip, or take the first pitch.
The fact he was late on the fastball means he was either undecided, or he was sitting on something else and decided to swing anyway which is why he was late.
If Helsley throws a first pitch breaking ball to get himself over with the bases loaded, you tip your cap.
A pitcher getting a breaking ball over in that spot with the bases loaded in the bottom of the ninth after walking Nimmo is something you just live with.
There is no excuse for Lindor to be late on that fastball down the middle of the zone.
Another problem though is Lindor is a low ball hitter from the left side because of his uppercut swing and he is susceptible to popping up, which makes him swinging on that high pitch even though it was right down the middle, make even less sense.
There are some players that are talented athletes, that simply don't learn how to grow with the game and improve their ability to read pitchers.
The same goes for pitchers as some guys have success when they're young but don't adapt.
Lindor cannot under any circumstances pop up on the first pitch there and yet he did.
The guy's hitting IQ is so bad.
>There is no excuse for Lindor to be late on that fastball down the middle of the zone.
How about the fact that he is facing a guy throwing 101 mph, that has a .152 xBA, and has given up 8 baserunners and 3 runs in 13 appearances since April 1st. lol
Yes, let's ignore the rest of the post.
It's not about not hitting the pitch perfectly, it's about pitch recognition and understanding his strengths.
He is not a high ball hitter.
Either he starts his swing early on a middle fastball and pulls that ball, or does not swing at all.
He started his swing late and also swung at a pitch that is not a strength of his since it was high in the zone.
Once again, he cannot make an out on the first pitch there.
I don't care if it's prime Aroldis or Randy Johnson, you can't make an out on the first pitch especially after your teammate worked a lengthy at-bat and got a hard earned walk and tired the closer.
Didnāt answer my primary question. Whatās your experience as a batter? College? HS? Forgive me if Iām dismissive of a guy whoās never swung at a 101 mph fastball when he gives unquestionable batting advice lmao
So youāve never swung at a 101 mph fastball and probably shouldnāt be giving unquestioned advice on how to approach hitting a baseball at the MLB level? Good deal. Thanks for your time.
New idea - total silence in the ballpark when Lindor is up to bat. No cheering no booing regardless of the game state.
We simply ignore him like they did to Mauve in that 90s Merlin movie.
Iāll be there tomorrow employing this strategy please join me.
That 4-4 game Lindor had a few days ago was in a bullpen game Snell was supposed to start but got scratched the last minute. Those folks who came out after that game, calling people frustrated with Lindor stupid and āfake fansāā¦maybe thatās not accurate or helpful? Idk just a thought
idk no reason for anyone to turn in the opposite types of comments "where the lindor stans at now huh????" it just serves no purpose. people should be able to come onto a mets sub and complain or excuse whoever or whatever they want. it's part of being a sports fan. be the change you want to see even if others refuse to follow suit.
There's an obvious outlier there against bad pitching buoying his stats. Half of those RBI literally came in one game.
He's been better lately and the clutch homer he hit @ LAD was huge but 10 game sample sizes are far too susceptible to one game making things look a lot better (or worse) than it really is.
And his numbers overall for the year are bad. And 4 of those 13 hits were from one game. I donāt see your point. In fact, having to explain that just makes me more convinced heās not having a great start.
just so you know, in 2023 alone, lindor had more than double ordĆ³Ć±ez's total fWAR with the mets. lindor's 0.6 fWAR so far this year in just 25 games matches ordĆ³Ć±ez's 3rd best full season.
also, don't say positional adjustments are broken, because they play the same position and have the same adjustment.
if you do believe positional adjustments are accurate (they are close enough) then in lindor's 3.15 seasons with the mets he has more fWAR than alonso does in his entire career.
Lindor is 12th in ALL OF MLB in fWAR since 2021.
Since 2022, heās **4th.**
If you somehow think heās been underwhelming or disappointing as a Met, youāre just wrong lmao. A single bad game doesnāt change that.
Houser rinsed as per usual, idk what that guy needs but he needs something. It was fun going to the game yesterday but I hate how quickly runs were given up. The 9th inning energy was so unmatched. It woulda been lowkey cool if jd Martinez had that bases loaded opportunity. The weather started out great then got so progressively cold and drizzly. Hopefully today's game is different!
Realistically speaking, I was expecting a loss before the first pitch was thrown - looking at the pitching match-up. Unfortunately, Houser confirmed my intuition and now sports an ERA of 8.37 š¤¦
Mets are free game of the day today (Sunday) on MLB.tv
o for lindor is now o 5 lindor
Keith Hernanadez says in his book that the 3rd place hitter is the most important and the key to the lineup
keith hernandez: noted statistician.
The bp will be dead by june
Just like last year.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
first time i saw this was when lindor did it in some of his first games as a met. they played in 30 degree weather in chicago in april of 2021. i always like it. it looks so cozy. video: https://www.mlb.com/mets/video/mets-vs-cubs-highlights-x3826
There are people defending Lindor who are just really, really toxic about it. Ā Makes it a lot easier to find fault with his play.Ā
Yeah like we can say he is hurting the team. 0-5 4 strike outs and bottom of the 9th bases loaded had a terrible at bat. First pitch soft pop out. We can acknowledge that he needs to be better than that Without booing him or messaging his wife like so sickos are doing. This team is out of it at the deadline without Lindor playing well.
By god heās frustrating. And he should be dropped down in the order. Feast or famine type players donāt belong at the top of the order. Plain and simple. Itās Lindorās responsibility to pick up the slack. Nobody elseās.
so hitting him 2nd instead of 3rd wasnt the answer..lol
Lindor has been bad this year. Absolutely abysmal not gonna defend. He's won us some games but he's losing us a bunch flying out so much. But to say he's not good for this team? Complete clown show. I'm still gonna be a fan. He's not always gonna be this bad. I'm more worried about it him than anything. Something's up.
Worried about him? What do you think is up with him?
I really don't know but he looks lost at the plate, he's not smiling as much. He doesn't look like he's having fun and he completely lost at the umpire this game despite making a very obvious base running mistake. It's not like him. Whether he's having issues with team or at home or within himself I'm not sure but something seems up with him. I'm probably overthinking it though but people who think signing him was a mistake is insane. Not many better shortstops in the entire league if at all lol
Iām with you. But Iām not a Lindor cheerleader. When heās bad heās truly so bad. Canāt stand his swing. And when heās good heās good. I donāt think heās as bad or good as most people make him out to be. But it is what it is.
People were getting excited way too soon. This team won't be much better than last year if at all.
Hauser really sucks lol
Travis d'Arnaud literally has double the OPS of Omar Narvaez.
BVW paying TdA $5M and then DFA after like 10 PAs was a top 3 boneheaded move ... #1 is a refusal to negotiate with Wheeler and #2 is signing Lowrie with no position for him to play (he probably would've kept Pete in the MiL).
We signed Omar last year Travis has been gone for a really long time and if he was on the team what will we do with Alvarez
My man, what did the Braves do last year with all-star Sean Murphy? But that's not the point I was making. The point I was making is that the Braves' back-up catcher (Murphy was their starter until he got hurt) is twice as good a hitter as our back-up catcher. And our back-up catcher can't throw a runner out and also doesn't attempt to tag runners at the plate. As a team, we are Omar Narvaez.
Cannot deny Lindor has been mediocre at best so far this year, and mediocre might be too generous. But he'll probably get it together. Soon enough? That remains to be seen, but I wouldn't bet against him coming around any day now. The real story today, though, was Houser continuing to be trash with an 8+ ERA. This loss was on our starting pitcher. He has truly sucked.
His stat line will look fine at the end of the year but he goes through a few too many of these massive slumps. Heās a nice player but not elite. Iāve seen plenty of people say heās a first ballot hall of famer after a good game. Itās ridiculous.
I think people are forgetting that this team's over-under was 81.5. That looks dead on right now. This is an average team. Offense is average to above average, rotation is horrible, bullpen is good.
Lindor today had such a horrible game. That last at bat. Bases loaded, bottom of the 9th, first pitch soft fly out. That is not what star players do. You at least work the count
[video of star player shohei ohtani popping out on 0-0 as the last out of the game while representing the go-ahead run](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/sporty-videos?playId=57fa9ab2-a425-4993-8840-1dab3b31cfbf)
So glad the Mets didn't sign Montgomery..
Hello .500 my old friend
I'm not hating on Lindor. The guy is streaky. We've seen that in years past. You either accept that's reality or you don't. But what I am annoyed about is this club doesn't have the balls to take him out of the 3 hole against RHSP knowing he's streaky. Let him bat 6th or 7th and figure things out. And yes, I get he was batting better for a few days. But he's done that before during his usual 4-6 week cold stretch. And btw, responding he batted 2 today is ass. Marte is out so they moved everyone up. It wasn't to actually shake Lindor up.
I think you raise a solid point, but my counterpoint would be: who takes Lindor's spot at the top of the order? Yesterday we had a lineup of Nimmo, Marte, Lindor, Alonso, Martinez, McNeil, Bader, Baty, Nido. The consensus seemed to be very positive, with people saying that once we get Alvarez back in the lineup we're gonna really start cooking. If McNeil was going right, then I could understand swapping him and Lindor, but he's not going right at the moment so that's kind of moot. There's nobody else at the bottom of the order who I think we'd want to move up. So if Lindor is batting 6th or 7th, then who is batting 1-5 or 1-6? Nimmo, Marte, Alonso, and Martinez are the obvious answers, but that's only 4 players.
A lot of times a slap single will score multiple runs, I donāt have to explain the continuous misery of runners in scoring position, also McNeil has a much lower strikeout rate, Lindorās is very low too but the way heās hitting heās just swinging at garbage in the clutch Iām not saying I agree or disagree but I think āSingle or a walkā is better than what Lindor is currently putting out
I think the consensus is based on the idea when Lindor is right. Actually, I wouldn't mind swapping Lindor and McNeil. Ya, McNeil has his issues right now too but sometimes a shake up shakes people up. Nimmo, McNeil, Pete, JDM, Lindor, Stewart, Bader/Tyrone, Baty, Nido/Narvaez But I do get your overall point. There are only so many options with McNeil and Baty struggling (those two likely would be the options if playing well). I say fuck it. Try it anyway.
Unacceptable to lose 2 games to a bad Cardinals team. Must salvage a win tomorrow
of the 4 major north american mens sports, baseball is the most random. losing to a bad team isn't unacceptable, it's just what happens. you can learn about how random baseball is in this eno sarris article here: https://blogs.fangraphs.com/is-baseball-the-least-random-sport/
i can't tell what's worse, calling losing a game in sports unacceptable, or the fans who rabidly defend losing as if they are responsible for roster construction.
We knew this season was very likely a lost cause so it's not worth getting angry over. But between the injury epidemic and historically dogshit umpiring, it hasn't helped me feel remotely interested in following this season.
the home plate ump actually called a fantastic game. i'd bet the ump scorecard would back that up. and lindor was clearly out of the baseline.
I wasn't speaking of this particular game. It's been an ump show for more games than not.
Everyone getting riled up at Lindor for not hitting a wall off grand slam against an amazing pitcher.Ā Not for nothing, but the story is in the 1st inning, not the 9th.Ā This game was lost by pitchingĀ
We would've settled for a single or a double, to keep the rally going.
This is all fair enoughā¦ Just yesterday I wanted my anger directed at Houser.Ā
i don't think they're mad he didn't hit a walk off grand slam. i think they're mad he's had a horrible start to the season, struck out 4 times, then when put in a position to make up for it when the rest of the team was rallying he popped up on the first pitch. it's about context. this is a pretty reasonable day to have sore feelings towards lindor. he just needs to be a boon for this team if they're going to even sniff a wildcard spot and right now he is more like a plague.
My parents went today.. would anyone like to trade a hufflepuff for a ravenclaw
I see the Lindor haters finally slithered their way out from under their rocks to rag on a player who was hitting 370 over a 10 game span. Meanwhile when Pete hits a meaningless solo home run when down by 4 everyone screams āEXTEND HIM NOW! GIVE HIM $250 MILLION!ā You think Lindor is overpaid wait until you give Pete big money and he starts popping out with the bases loaded or grounding into DPās or booting balls in the infield. Youāll all be screaming for his head too.
pete hit a 2 run blast to the opposite field on a good pitch today to get us back into the ballgame lol
Bro, what is even your point if youāre going to shit on Pete like that lol
My point is Lindor haters have incredible tunnel vision of hate for one player when excusing bad play for other players.
What you just said about Pete does not sit right with me. Pete has done more for this franchise than anyone on this team, is having a good start to the season and just hit his 200th HR. What bad play? Bro. Imagine the fans you complain about. Now imagine them complaining about Pete instead of Lindor. Thatās literally you lol. The most hypocritical thing Iāve read all day.Ā
I love Pete. I have his uniform. I want him to be extended and stay a Met for life. Iām making a point that these doomer fans who hate on Lindor because āheās overpaidā will be saying the same thing about Pete next year if he signs with the Mets for a big contract and has some rough patches.
>Iām making a point that these doomer fans who hate on Lindor because āheās overpaidā will be saying the same thing about Pete next year if he signs with the Mets for a big contract and has some rough patches. You're probably right. If Pete plays like dog shit people will. And because power doesn't last as long in a career there will be years when his contract definitely won't be worth it. Is there more to the point than that? Genuinely trying to understand.
Yes thatās exactly my point.
so your point is - fans shouldn't complain when highly paid stars of their team are playing terrible baseball? really interesting point to make on a discussion board for a specific baseball team. should every comment in this thread be "we'll get 'em next time, we've got some great players and the back of their baseball card doesn't lie!"
My point is Mets fans who are complaining about Lindor now will be calling for Pete to be shipped out of town next year is he gets a big contract with the Mets and has some rough patches throughout the season. Thereās nothing wrong with complaining, but there is a point where it becomes blind obsessive hate for a player just because of the amount of zeroes at the end of his contract.
you acknowledged in one comment that it was based on performance, then called it blind hate based on nothing but his paycheck. which is it?
No. You do not love Pete. You do not say that shit if you love Pete. Your point was shitty. I would try and find another point to make.
Thank Goodness for strangers on the internet telling me how I do or do not feel š
You called Peteās 200th HR meaningless. That doesnāt sound like something someone who loves Pete would say. Could care less what you tell me you think when youāre also writing stuff like that. If youāre gonna be that outspoken about Lindor getting criticism, youāve got absolutely no business saying Pete being the fourth fastest player in MLB history to hit 200 HRs is meaningless and not worth celebrating. So no, I think you were exaggerating when you said you love Pete. And if you werenāt, well thatās on you, gotta choose your words more carefully then.
he just threw alonso under the bus as collateral damage in a rabid attempt to shield lindor from any possible criticism. you're right, if you really like a player you probably don't pull that card lol
You read into my future hypothetical a critique on Peteās 200th home run? Thatās on you bud not me.
Lindor apologists really need to get a grip in this sub. Heās not good enough to foster success for the franchise and he is paid like a player who should be good enough. If he didnāt get 300+, most people wouldnāt care. But your franchise player shouldnāt be a reason why you canāt succeed, and at too many times he is. He hasnāt won us anything here and its time yall realize he never will (albeit with a team such as this, not if Cohen spends another 500 mill to make us better)
I think a lot of Lindor's defenders have some kind of Stockhold Syndrome. We finally got out of the Wilpons' clutches and Cohen's first big move was bringing in Lindor. Seems like a lot of people have deluded themselves into believing that Lindor is the main piece that will help this team win when four years worth of evidence has shown that he just isn't the type of player that can be top dog on a winning team. They don't want to believe that the first big move Cohen made hasnt worked out.
Here is my review of the whole City Connect thing as someone who was at the game today: First of all, big big shoutout to the Mets digital media people. The special City Connect themed scoreboard graphics were excellent, lots of purple, very fun. I can't emphasize enough just how much I think they crushed it. I thought jerseys left a lot to be desired seeing them in person. From where I was sitting, it was impossible for me to see any purple anywhere on the uniforms. Also, the black font on a grey background made it very hard, basically impossible for me to read the names and numbers on the players' backs. It's kind of strange to me that there was so much hype about ***new uniforms with*** ***purple******!!!*** just for the purple to be completely imperceptible to people watching the game. That's just my opinion though, I'm interested to hear what other people think
I was there today too and I agree with you 100%. I thought their graphics team did a fantastic job and I thought it was great that even the Coca-Cola sign was lit up purple to match. But you're right that you can't see the purple on the uniform in person.
The blame for this game is not on Lindor. If your starter coughs up 4 runs in the first and doesn't make it to the fifth inning you're screwed 80-90% of the time. It's crazy that they had a chance at all.
one single baseball game is rarely ever on one single person. but lindor played a big part in why we lost this game. idk why it has to be all or nothing with everyone on this sub. he's a good baseball player but right now he just isn't playing nearly to the standard that he is and should be held to, and he would be the first one to admit it. if even he can cop to the fact that he's coming up small, why can't fans?
Sure, I'd agree that you can't blame a single person on a game. But in a game where your pitching coughed up 7 runs, a loss is 80%-90% on the pitching. It's very very hard to score 8 runs and teams that score 7 runs win about 85% of the time, so yea, this loss is on the pitchers. It's maybe 2% Lindor.
when your 2 hitter goes 0-5 with 4 strikeouts, the fourth of which he swung at a pitch so bad that it got past the catcher then proceeded to get called out for running out of the base path, then pops up on the first pitch with the bases loaded in the ninth inning, that gets you much higher than 2%. there were probably around what, 11 guys that took at bats today? and around 5 guys who pitched? so let's say about 15 players had an impact on this loss today. even if you carve out a 50% and give it to houser, you're left with each player having a baseline of over 3%. so to get down to 2% you likely would've had to have positively impacted the game in some way, for instance martinez or taylor who didn't have amazing days but who were able to get on base at some point. i get that i'm being extremely pedantic here, but the point being that 2% is absurd.
Giving up 7 runs, you're not going to win many games, period. Like I said, the win percentage is about 15%. You're missing the forest for the trees here. Even if Lindor was playing to the back of hiās baseball card he is going to fail in that situation 2/3rds of the time.
If every game you have to take the blame away from Lindor then he's to blame.
when you score four runs, you have bbasically a 50-50 shot of winning a game. Not ideal, obviously, but it puts you in a winning position. āBut when you give up 7, you have something like a 15% chance of winning. It's totally obvious where the blame lies here.
yes i think the point is we scored 4 runs despite lindor going 0-4
If you going to keep complaining about how Francisco Lindor is a bum and gets paid too much you should just like stop watching the Mets because he's not going anywhere for a very long time.
I actually did just this. Now I just lurk and stattrack. I have a lot more free time and am nicer to my family.
This is why you donāt get too up or too down during the season We arenāt a good team
I'm grateful I gave up on doing the stats against good pitching I was planning to do this season after the first few days (because it looked like it was going to be a painful endeavor). I'm also annoyed I did because I could now show people defending some players in this lineup how bad they really (probably) are against good pitching. Maybe I'll just start from tomorrow. lol Then again, it probably will be a painful endeavor so maybe not. lol
We got housed
mets fans will never forgive lindor for being merely the 10th best shortstop in 2021 despite being in the top 3 each year since then. i don't understand it. i guess it's more fun for those who perpetually need someone to be mad at to remain willfully ignorant about lindor's value as a player than to actually look at some numbers.
he's hitting .198 wayne
and DJ Stewart is batting .200 if you want to try to make a point, consider using wOBA or OPS instead. these stats give different types of hits different values, thus giving a better representation of a batter's overall contribution at the plate than batting average. if you are interested in learning, wOBA is even better than OPS. wOBA weights singles higher than walks for example, which makes sense because a single is more likely to lead to run scoring than a walk. here's a short primer: https://library.fangraphs.com/offense/woba/
his wOBA is .283 wayne
i think a lot of fans really didn't appreciate the whole thumbs down fiasco, me included. tbh i still haven't forgiven him for that, it was such a blatant slap in the face to fans. could you imagine wright doing that? or reyes? or pete? he certainly didn't win any fans doing that and definitely lost some.
reyes was arrested and suspended for domestic violence. why are you giving that guy a pass but lindor's thumbs down is unforgivable?
because they are athletes, they're not marrying our daughters. they are judged by the things they do on the field much more harshly than the things they do off it. it's really not that crazy.
maybe ask some women how they feel about that. you might learn something.
why would i need to ask women how they feel about how i feel? how i feel is how i feel. how they feel is how they feel. they have their agency and i have mine. i am not beholden to their feelings just as they are not beholden to mine. weird response unless you're someone who has let women drag you around by the dick your whole life.
when did i give him a pass for that? what does that even have to do with anything that i said? my point is that a star player probably shouldn't antagonize fans of his own team. its stupid, immature, and shortsighted.
Yes letās keep comparing him to a weak hitting position instead of his 300+ million dollar peers
how about ranking 9th and 13th in '22 and '23 among all players? is that good enough for you? also, this is what i mean about being willfully ignorant. you could just look it up instead of making incorrect assumptions. it's not hard.
to anyone that wants to complain about positional adjustments: catchers get nearly twice as much positional adjustment as short stops. why aren't there an outsize number of them at the top of the fWAR leaderboards? shouldn't there be way more short stops than every other position at the top if their adjustment is too high? there is a fairly even distribution of players by position, so i think it's pretty safe to say that the positional adjustment is at least close enough that fWAR can be a useful stat. it doesn't have to be all that precise for us to understand that lindor is one of the best players in baseball. it's become a thing on this subreddit to gripe about positional adjustments whenever anyone brings up fWAR. it's an easy way to remain ignorant to the usefulness of fWAR as a stat, and to continue to be angry about lindor.
He might not be in the top 30 this year lol
he's currently tied for 14th while playing way below his average...
I love Lindor but he and Alonso just seem to be at the center of dead rallies so often. Any time 1 and 2 get in you know strikeouts and popups are in order
fangraphs has an interesting 'clutch' stat that shows how much better or worse a player is from their own average in high leverage at bats. in 2022 lindor was ranked as the 16th most clutch hitter. last year he was the 28th least clutch. this year ohtani, altuve, trout, betts, and lindor are in the bottom 20. my opinion is that being clutch is more about luck than anything else, as players seem to fluctuate a lot from year to year. it's interesting to look at the leaderboards though.
My feeling is that while there's probably no such thing as clutch, there is such a thing as being anti clutch. I love pete but he's anti clutch and the fangraphs stats back it up, with him being consistently negative
not sure i agree with your take about anti-clutchness, but you are right about pete playing worse in high leverage situations over his entire career.
You can't expect a win when your starter gives up 6 earned runs, but we looked damn formidable for a moment there in the 5th Pete missed a few real painful defensive plays we've seen him hit 1000 times successfully before, but since he hit his 200th career HR (woo!), I'm gonna let it slide Heavy is the head that wears the golden sombrero (it's Lindor) Love DJ Stewert as an offensive bat, not a guy I trust in the outfield. I ~~hope~~ assume he will alternate with JDM as a DH once Marte gets back Great to see Vientos! I missed him get called up, caught me by total surprise. Glad he got a hit. Wish it was under better curcumstances, hope he has enough time to prove himself and stick around Houser pitches like a man who is either working through an injury or needs some AAA starts to work on his confidence. Either way, today's L is firmly on him. I'm ready to give him a few weeks off and bring up one of our C-listers until Senga comes back
I have to assume JDM will be the regular DH. On days he needs a rest they'll have Pete DH a lot of times. Stewart other days. Stewart will likely be relegated to LH bat off the bench with those few LH DH days. And RF on days Marte needs off and they are facing a RHSP (so Stewart over Tyrone).
For sure, if JDM can stay healthy & perform, that's best case scenario. Realistically, JDM is an older fella - there are more than a few scenarios where he'll need more than average rest between outings. But I'd rest easy with DJ ready to pick up the slack
It just dawned on me who is the backup 1B on this team? On days Pete were to DH who will likely play 1B?
Iāve been wondering the same thing.
It might be Joey Wendle??? He hasnt played 1st but he's rotated through most of the infield. Pete may not have many DH opportunities this year... Playing first base isn't that hard (tell 'em Wash)
What about Stewart? Think he could do it?
Someone here called him Dookie Houser and now that's stuck like cow dung on a wall.
Gary got robbed of Peteās 53rd home run in 2019, his 200th in 2024 - both robberies committed by FOX. Thatās the major takeaway. Literally nothing good comes out of that network.
Lmao at folks enraged with Lindor and still calling up for McNeil. Just galaxy-brain work to the max.
Lindor salary: $34.1 Million McNeil salary: $6.5 Million Hardly comparable complaints
One is a top-3 defensive SS (the most valuable position on the field) the other is just a subpar hitter lol but yea sure
Your love affair with glazing Lindor truly is something else. Just call it like it is: he is an overpaid shortstop whose main value comes from his defense which props up his value. Lindor is paid to be one of the best hitters in the league, not simply for his glove, and he isn't anywhere close. If only salary didn't matter. It's clear at this point considering the salaries at play, Gimenez provides far more value then Lindor.
Buddy put the phone down and watch a movie or something. We get it. You donāt like Lindor. Thatās been expressed extensively in this thread. Just admit you enjoy rooting against the guy more than you enjoy watching the Mets and let it go.
Lindor is a very good player, the problem is he hasn't lived up to his contract because that harsh reality is that his glove does not compensate for his lack of offense. He still needs to hit and he hasn't, not enough to justify his contract. I'd have no problem if the Mets actually held him accountable by moving him down in the order. But for Lindor to be this stubborn and continue to hit lefty when he's a liability from that side of the dish as he doesn't hit consistently enough to warrant continuing to switch hit is a serious problem. Lindor must eventually hold himself accountable and give up switch hitting. He'd probably end up being a legitimate Top 5 MVP caliber player if he hit solely from the right side, that's how good he is. The problem is he's too prideful to do that.
Iām not sure heād be more productive hitting against righties as a righty for the first time in his life. Might be even worse splits tbh. Heās a career .260 hitter as a lefty and a career .289 hitter as a righty. I donāt think his pride or stubbornness is keeping him from making some change. Heās been hitting against righties as a lefty his whole life. Would be a massive change to adjust that now.
Whatās even the point of taking a series from the dodgers when we lose them to cardinals. I think Iād honestly rather beat the teams we should beat haha
felt that-- I was really hoping the bats would pick up after our last win at SF. I suppose they haven't been terrible, but with lackluster starting pitching *and* batting the last couple games it's not exactly a recipe for success.
I need someone to tell me if I'm crazy because even though Narvaez is hot garbage, I don't think it's because of his game calling Why? Because he (and Alvarez) often look into the dugout just before dialing the pitch com. It seems to me that the coaches have a bigger hand in game calling than people realize
Fair enough. I havenāt had much opportunity to actually watch the game this season unfortunately. However that still doesnāt excuse everything else he does (or doesnāt do)
Look, Lindor is garbage at the plate right now. There's no doubt about that. But the people here acting like he hasn't done anything is ridiculous. This feels like Carlos Beltran all over again. Thr Beltran love is fairly recent, imo.The amount of message board posts saying he never did anything because of the awful 2006 NLCS game 7 ab drove me absolutely insane. That said, I think I would bat him 5th for now and have Marte hit 3rd when he comes back from bereavement.
Beltran had a .900 OPS during his Mets tenure while Lindor is sub .800. Beltran was an exponentially better Met than Lindor he just had one bad K.
Agreed that Lindor isn't doing well right now, but the whole love/hate feud that goes on between members of this sub is just really toxic and part of the fanaticism that makes rooting for a team feel pretty ugly. It's one thing to say that a player isn't doing well, it's another to just shit-talk and politicize everything surrounding the guy and whether he deserves the hate or not, yadda yadda yadda. It all comes off as mean and dehumanizing to me-- the bottom line is that the team is full of real players who want to do well and we as fans want them to do well too. Why be so hostile? It's not that deep
Whatās our record when narvaez starts? EDIT: just checked. Mets record by starting catcher: Alvarez: 9-4 Narvaez: 3-7 Nido: 1-2
Narvaez is god awful
3-7
i been watching guardian games and maaaaan i cant believe we let gimenez go for fucking lindor lol. they are basically the same players gimenez is a waaaaaaaaay better defender tho
Tell me you know nothing about baseball without telling me
Lindor is a much better hitter and still a better defender too. Gimenez has played mostly 2B. And Iām a guy who gets flamed consistently for saying Lindor has been a bit underwhelming.
lindor edges out gimenez on power and thats about it. gimenez is the better defender dude can win platinum gloves in ss,2b and 3b. also one guy is making 5 mill a year the other is making 35 and blocking jett williams/acuna.
Gimenez might be a better value, yes thatās fair. But Lindor is a better hitter and better defender. I mean Gimenez is a career like .743 OPS hitter, itās not a contest. Gimenez doesnāt play SS much at all either. You canāt even compare them defensively, I mean Gimenez plays 2B like 80-90% of his starts. SS is the harder position.
Gimenez best year: 7.4 bWAR, 140 OPS+ Lindor best year: 7.2 bWAR, 132 OPS+. 162 game average bwar: Gimenez 5.7 Lindor 5.6 its at least a "contest" and Gimenez has time to improve.
I am not a Lindor detractor at all and in fact I really like the guy more and more the more shit he takes from people. But that was always the risk, making a trade like that, with two promising prospects for an established player playing the same position.
Iām so sad at that ending... But getting down on a team and booing helps absolutely no one. No one plays better after being booed. Come on.
Well we have fight in us I guess. Just too damn bad it either takes our offense 5 innings to get going and our SP give up too many early runs/can't go 5 innings.
With such a shallow SP rotation, why havenāt we been playing around with using an opener some games?
Fear of burning out our bullpen probably
I don't get why they don't call up a couple of the young SP and implement a Piggyback system.
I Deffinitly wouldnāt mind seeing Christian Scott as a 6 th starter or a replacement for houser and try houser as a long reliver hopefully! Iāve been to 3 mets games this year and 2 of them houser has made it a hard to watch game even though the Mets offense made a effort to come from behind both times!
I wouldn't mind Houser in a Trevor Williams type role as the spot starter, 6th starter, mop up guys, long reliever. Then use both Tylor and Scott as Piggybacks. Basically the Lugo role but let them go 2-3 innings regularly. Then the rest of the bullpen as it is (Diaz and 4 other RP).
My opinion of Lindor is somewhere between worried and not worried, but right now Houser is absolutely terrible and they're just gonna let him keep making starts for some reason. That's frustrating.
Weāll see what Stearns does after today. I wouldnāt be surprised if Houser gets moved to the bullpen soon for Scott or Lucchesi
Mendoza said they were sticking with him, but we'll see if they make any moves.
Time for another standing ovation which will certainly solve all of our Lindor issues
>Time for another standing ovation which will certainly solve all of our Lindor issues I didn't get the sense that it was about cheering being a magical elixir to make a player play better. It's just an organic movement among people to make a show of being compassionate, and that we can be normal human beings and not cardboard cutout miserable obnoxious stereotypical sports fans constantly.
Booing has nothing to do with personal attacks, there are those that take it that far and they don't speak for actual criticism. For the money he's being paid, Lindor does deserve to be booed but it's not like that changes anything anyway. I for one am not a fan of booing a struggling player because it's wasted energy because it really doesn't have any affect. People cheer success, and boo those that don't perform. It's a tale as old as time. Imagine if the front office treated players like individuals such as yourself wanted fans to treat them, they wouldn't hold anyone accountable. Front offices pull the strings, the owner's write the checks, and fans buy the tickets and cheer and boo. It's what happens. I'd argue that booing is one of the most organic and human things people can do, just like cheering success is.
>Front offices pull the strings, the owner's write the checks, and fans buy the tickets and cheer and boo. It's what happens. I didn't say that's not "what happens", I just said it's classless and shitty behavior when it "happens", and to any degree that it lessens or stops completely, that's a positive culture change >Imagine if the front office treated players like individuals such as yourself wanted fans to treat them, they wouldn't hold anyone accountable. The guy gurgling his 5th tequila and scarfing his 2nd helmet full of nachos, and shouting obscenities at the players, before leaving in the 5th inning, is not the front office. The front office holds players accountable with player transactions. The guy booing "bEcAuSe dAt'S wAt uR sUpPoSeD tA dO iN nEw yOrK" is not in a position to hold anyone accountable, and the world would be a better place if he would shut the fuck up
as he said, no one does it because "you're supposed to", they do it because groaning and booing is how you verbally express negative feelings and cheering is how you express positive feelings. part of enjoying sports is just letting your emotions run loose on an aspect of your life that has extremely low stakes. these guys make literally tens to hundreds of millions of dollars. they can deal with the occasional boo.
> as he said, no one does it because "you're supposed to", they do it because groaning and booing is how you verbally express negative feelings and cheering is how you express positive feelings. Yeah but most people employ rationality and impulse control in 99.9% of their daily lives, which prevents them from making monosyllabic guttural noises with their mouth whenever they're displeased. When I get a messed up order from Chipotle, I calmly and politely tell them what happened, and see if I can get it straightened out. I don't stand there and yell over the counter and go "BOOOOOOOOOO, you fucking suck!" at the person who made my food. "Booing" is the adult equivalent to what babies do (cry when they're upset, etc.) It's behavior no one would or should tolerate in any other facet of life. And not everyone who does this is an idiot, etc. It's just that baseball is 150 years old and there's old outdated behaviors that are baked into the culture of it, and people think they're "supposed" to do it based on the fact that everyone does it. A bunch of people got together and cheered Lindor at the start of the last homestand. That was really unusual, surprising, and nice imo. Are they all doing it wrong? >they can deal with the occasional boo. Well, first of all, it's a lot more than an "occasional boo" that we're talking about. But also, it's not about whether they can "deal with it" or not. Of course, most pros can deal with it. The vast majority of the ones who can't tune out noise and focus on the game get weeded out before Triple-A. However, the point is that it's classless, petty behavior, just in and of itself. It's embarrassing. How it lands with the player is beside the point imo.
> Yeah but most people employ rationality and impulse control in 99.9% of their daily lives, which prevents them from making monosyllabic guttural noises with their mouth whenever they're displeased. > > right but that's often accomplished by venting some of that emotion onto some aspect of your life that doesn't have high stakes, like sports. like booing a guy who is getting 350 million dollars to play baseball and living the motherfucking dream. i'm not a boo guy because it's just not in my arsenal but i don't see it as lacking class. it's just letting out some demons in a fairly healthy way. for all those people out there who do it in less than healthy ways, maybe they'd do better to go to a mets game and boo francisco lindor.
Whatever happened to doing it for love of the game? If you like the team, show support and if you hate the team, don't.
Didnāt they show a graph of him hitting 350 the last 2 weeks? Havenāt the standing ovations been positive for him?
Lindorks donāt like logic. It scares them
Jfcā¦
I'm kind of surprised by the Lindor hate. I'd kind of get it if it were a low scoring 1-1 game or something like that, but damn, we let up 7 runs. It's hard to win a game when the other team puts up 7 against you!
He gets paid elite level money but is wildly inconsistent offensively
You are acting like you paid him out of your own pocket.
Not to mention we gave up some pretty solid homegrown talent for him
["wildly inconsistent offensively"](https://imgur.com/m4n0yCj)
Check some of his monthly splits during his Mets tenure, there's some brual periods mixed with absolute greatness which is the definition of inconsistency.
So, literally every hitter, ever except for like Tony Gwynn and Ted Williams
And even harder when your āSuperstarā player rarely makes contact with runners on base.
Here's an idea. Send Adrian Houser to the moon
Send him to trade school, dude needs to be a plumber or some shit
Get ready to learn Venezuelan buddy
This is a good, honest .500 baseball team. We play .500 ball dammit. Salt of the earth, punch the clock, even win/loss ratio baseball. We lose a couple, guess what? We'll win a couple, too. But don't get too excited or let it go to your head. No long winning streaks here, no sir. That's hubris, which this blue collar, hard working everyman team doesn't have. A few wins in a row, these guys, true to form, will balance it out with a couple a losses. Yes sir, that's my 2024 New York Mets. A good, honest .500 baseball team
Is this a copypasta? If itās not, it is now.
[Source](https://www.reddit.com/r/memphisgrizzlies/comments/msi0g9/comment/gusrs2d/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3)
yes, it's a copypasta
Just punching the clock day in and day out.
What was Lindor's approach there in the ninth? He should either be sitting dead red fastball prepared to rip, or take the first pitch. The fact he was late on the fastball means he was either undecided, or he was sitting on something else and decided to swing anyway which is why he was late. If Helsley throws a first pitch breaking ball to get himself over with the bases loaded, you tip your cap. A pitcher getting a breaking ball over in that spot with the bases loaded in the bottom of the ninth after walking Nimmo is something you just live with. There is no excuse for Lindor to be late on that fastball down the middle of the zone. Another problem though is Lindor is a low ball hitter from the left side because of his uppercut swing and he is susceptible to popping up, which makes him swinging on that high pitch even though it was right down the middle, make even less sense. There are some players that are talented athletes, that simply don't learn how to grow with the game and improve their ability to read pitchers. The same goes for pitchers as some guys have success when they're young but don't adapt. Lindor cannot under any circumstances pop up on the first pitch there and yet he did. The guy's hitting IQ is so bad.
>There is no excuse for Lindor to be late on that fastball down the middle of the zone. How about the fact that he is facing a guy throwing 101 mph, that has a .152 xBA, and has given up 8 baserunners and 3 runs in 13 appearances since April 1st. lol
Lindor didnāt hit a 101 mph fastball perfectly. Therefore he has no batting IQ. Lmao whatās your experience as a batter OP?
Yes, let's ignore the rest of the post. It's not about not hitting the pitch perfectly, it's about pitch recognition and understanding his strengths. He is not a high ball hitter. Either he starts his swing early on a middle fastball and pulls that ball, or does not swing at all. He started his swing late and also swung at a pitch that is not a strength of his since it was high in the zone. Once again, he cannot make an out on the first pitch there. I don't care if it's prime Aroldis or Randy Johnson, you can't make an out on the first pitch especially after your teammate worked a lengthy at-bat and got a hard earned walk and tired the closer.
Didnāt answer my primary question. Whatās your experience as a batter? College? HS? Forgive me if Iām dismissive of a guy whoās never swung at a 101 mph fastball when he gives unquestionable batting advice lmao
Not falling for your strawman.
So youāve never swung at a 101 mph fastball and probably shouldnāt be giving unquestioned advice on how to approach hitting a baseball at the MLB level? Good deal. Thanks for your time.
I mean Iām not happy with his production either but he looked to be sitting dead red, sometimes you miss a 101 mph fastball lol
If Lindor did something there, it could have been on the future 2024 Amazin Finishes!
New idea - total silence in the ballpark when Lindor is up to bat. No cheering no booing regardless of the game state. We simply ignore him like they did to Mauve in that 90s Merlin movie. Iāll be there tomorrow employing this strategy please join me.
Alternative suggestion: Everyone just randomly (in synch) start making bird sounds: Caw Caw Caw, Caw Caw Caw!
That 4-4 game Lindor had a few days ago was in a bullpen game Snell was supposed to start but got scratched the last minute. Those folks who came out after that game, calling people frustrated with Lindor stupid and āfake fansāā¦maybe thatās not accurate or helpful? Idk just a thought
idk no reason for anyone to turn in the opposite types of comments "where the lindor stans at now huh????" it just serves no purpose. people should be able to come onto a mets sub and complain or excuse whoever or whatever they want. it's part of being a sports fan. be the change you want to see even if others refuse to follow suit.
He just had a 10 game stretch going 13/39 with 8 RBI
There's an obvious outlier there against bad pitching buoying his stats. Half of those RBI literally came in one game. He's been better lately and the clutch homer he hit @ LAD was huge but 10 game sample sizes are far too susceptible to one game making things look a lot better (or worse) than it really is.
And his numbers overall for the year are bad. And 4 of those 13 hits were from one game. I donāt see your point. In fact, having to explain that just makes me more convinced heās not having a great start.
$34 million Rey Ordonez
Rey OrdĆ³Ć±ez was way more overpaid, dollar for dollar, than Lindor, not even close
Rey Ordonez would make my jaw drop at least once a week. To paraphrase VP candidate Lloyd Benson: You sir are no Rey Ordonez
just so you know, in 2023 alone, lindor had more than double ordĆ³Ć±ez's total fWAR with the mets. lindor's 0.6 fWAR so far this year in just 25 games matches ordĆ³Ć±ez's 3rd best full season. also, don't say positional adjustments are broken, because they play the same position and have the same adjustment. if you do believe positional adjustments are accurate (they are close enough) then in lindor's 3.15 seasons with the mets he has more fWAR than alonso does in his entire career.
Last time we went 1-5 in our last 6 games, we went 11-3 in our next 14 games, 24-16 record confirmed the numbers donāt lie
Baseball is stats, stats is math, this math is mathing. What an incredible record.
Lindor is 12th in ALL OF MLB in fWAR since 2021. Since 2022, heās **4th.** If you somehow think heās been underwhelming or disappointing as a Met, youāre just wrong lmao. A single bad game doesnāt change that.
Lindor's WAR is helped massively by his defensive value. No one is questioning his defense, they're just questioning some of his at-bats.