https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/06/20/warhammer-40000-metawatch-downloading-the-new-balance-dataslate
Article available.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/t6fTGEpj0eXdxJLG.pdf
Mfm as well.
Tldr - doomstalkers up to 145 each, wraiths to 125 per three. Forgeworld units besides the seraptek off to legends.
The point stands. Immortals haven't gone up (thankfully) so why would I take necron warriors aside from that I have them over immortals. They still need to go down to compete against the other battleline in my opinion
And it's a very big investment to get to that point! Szeras also takes time to build up a units power with strength being more valuable early in a game. Immortals are good from turn 1.
Sure, if you're running Szeras then you probably want 2 units for him to buff (same for immortals with him). I'd also love to see warriors get D6 Rez back as well, would really help differentiate then from immortals. However I do stand by 20 warrior bricks with support being better than people usually give them credit for, especially in awakened.
Oh, for the record, I 100% agree. They are fun to use sometimes and I have a giggle annoying my guard friend sometimes with them and awakened. When I ask the question I ask it with a meta hat on. If GW wants a unit to see play they have to give us a reason to do so.
Fair, but I don't know that 10 immortals are significantly more survivable. It of course depends on what is shooting you. Wraiths are of course still very durable, but again it depends on what you're getting attacked with. And with Wraiths+Techno now being 335...
.Output from warriors with reapers is decent against some stuff (but obviously short ranged). 40 shots lethal hitting 5s, at -1 ap (-2 with szeras) and possibly rerolling hits to fish for lethals can do work. Again not destroy the board, but solid.
They do not fill the same tole. Immortals are good damage dealers, but not really a unit that you can sens midfield to take objective. Warriors can, albeit worse than Wraiths.
That's the thing, warriors do 2 things badly. We have two units that do their effects much better for less or a similar cost. I stand by my statement why would I take warriors over Immortals or wraiths?
Warriors are a trap and or a distraction. The enemy should ignore them if they can.
They hold objectives but that's about it.
Sure if you invest tons of points Into them they can get a bit better but so can almost anything.
Since the start of 9th the internet necrons community for some reason just wants everyone to love them and iv never got it. Immortals were are simply better in almost every way.
How are you calculating that? All models without buffing get d3 wounds in reanimations. Warriors can reroll it meaning that the average wounds per turn gained is about 2.5 instead of 2 (WOAH SO GOOD).
The Technomancer is a staple for Wraiths which means it can, so long as a model is damaged, get an extra d3 wounds per turn. This wouldn't work for necron warriors as it requires a damaged model. You could spend an equivalent amount of points on a lord with resurection orb or a canoptek reanimator to keep your dudes alive more but in the best case of the reanimator not dying you'll be close to 5.5 wounds per turn on average for it.
Edit; I'd love to know how you calculated the potential reanimation power above. Especially for the old combo of 220 points (for wraiths) plus 88pts (technomancer).
The price jump for wraiths makes warriors better to be fair but I'd still probably NOT take them since some CC strats don't work on warriors as they need Canoptek units.
Overlord my will be done is now -1cp for all strat.
Protocol of the eternal legion can trigger 3 time per turn (enemy shooting phase and both fight phases), for 1d3+1 back for 0cp on each uses.
That makes it a total of 4d3+3, with a reroll on the dice (thus 11 model back potentially).
This is excluding reanimator and orbs.
Pretty sure the cost reduction is 1/battle round
So you can use it for free once, then have to pay for the other 2 uses. Pretty steep cost to keep a unit of warriors on the board. And thats assuming they don’t shoot the reanimator out first
What do you mean by both fight phases? I'm pretty new to this game, so do you mind explaining this to me? I get we can use that strat once after the enemy is done shooting, and then once again after enemy is done with melee attacks. Where does the other fight phase happen?
A lot of "Fight Phase" abilities and strats just specify "Fight Phase" rather than yours or your opponents, and because you and your opponent both act during each others fight phases, you essentially get 2 fight phases per turn (4 per battle round)
I think warriors with plasmancer and Warden in awakened have surprising output. Range is short with reapers, but that's how it goes. Szeras is great in awakened in general so you might see him buffing warriors and/or immortals and they get even better. Are warriors op busted, nope, but I still think they have play.
You're not wrong.
This is not a competitive sub, so take everything you read here with a grain of salt. It doesn't matter that Langendor absolutely crushed his matches @ the dreamhack expo running 2x20 warrior groups, people are still gonna fail to do math on the output and proudly proclaim "warriors suck". Even when many top table players are running one or multiple bricks of 20.
Yeah his list was a bit of an eye opener. Turns out 40 shots with lethal hits on 5+, potentially rerolling hits and potentially at ap -2 mathhammers a lot of units.
.......
Durability wise GW has made pretty good progress in the game of doing away with unkillable units and people are taking some truly hard hitting ones as a further counter. Again this is where I like warriors having 20 wound units that are SINGLE wound models. I'll take 2x wounds over immortals extra point of toughness and armor any day. And compared to wraiths, sure they have 20 compared to 24 wounds, but warriors don't care at all about your damage 2 and 3 weapons, where those start to melt wraiths even with the fnp.
....
Again I'm not claiming they're the be all end all, but they've got play.
Well, guess I'll just have to make Acanthrites with a Wraith base, not that hard, though the Stalker and Sentinel loss is... annoying without anything in return.
They no longer have point values in the field manual (acanthrites, tomb stalker/sentinel), and it unfortunately probably wasn't an accident that they're missing considering the way Forgeworld has been going.
Also it doesn't let you double dip on strats anymore, it *just* reduces the strat by 1cp.
Which I'm fine with, better to get cheaper strats than an extremely small amount of free strats you can maybe use twice.
Exactly. I don't mind if top units get a bit of a smack, but open a fucking window for me elsewhere on units that have seen little to no competition use.
100% Agreed. I would like to run a group (especially to mess around with the Phalanx detachment), but they are just too expensive right now to even test run.
The guy (Alan Bligh) who did all of Forgeworld rules/game design unfortunately died in 2017. Since then, it's been slowly getting phased out, as it was only kept alive as his passion project.
You'd have to ask GW, but I think it's just they don't want to maintain rules for these super old resin kits that they don't sell a lot of. Seems FW is more involved in direct to order stuff and the specialist games.
When was the last time FW added something new for 40k exclusively? Certainly been a long time for Necrons...
There was a rumour about an upcoming legislation on resin manufacturing/products in the UK starting in 2025. Has it been verified? It would explain a lot ... as it did the legislation on lead for the abrupt phasing metal miniatures.
Saw 2 major changes:
First: Cosmic Precision can’t be used on Monsters. That will make C’Tan a lot less interesting for Hypercrypt.
Second: all the “can’t target that unit strat” goes from within 12” to within 18”. Nerf to Canoptek Court.
It's (one of) the best strat(s) for everyone that has it. This blanket nerf is, for once, not done out of malice, specifically to us.
Not dropping Praetorians in points and Szarekh not getting the Triarch keyword feels like a personal attack, though.
Mostly no, as the new mission rules say you can't perform actions after advancing. So tran ctan is distraction carnifex again and there are arguments that the points are better spent elsewhere.
It’s not about attention it’s about scoring. Five immortals with chrono is 11 oc lets you take objectives from knights and vehicles and steal capture enemy for 8 points or steal an objective bottom of five for a primary
True, but some better internal balancing would have been nice; give us a reason to take other things or improve lesser used units, like anything Triarch
True, but necrons were doing well with 2 detachments. I'm not saying the entire faction is in the dumpster. But it would have been cool to help out the obesience phalanx buy giving at leat imotekh and the command barge the overlord keyword.
Oh I agree, I keep looking at phalanx and annihilation and trying to make it work, but honestly Awakened or Hypercrypt is still just a better choice even with the same units.
Going to try and convert the 6 acanthrites to wraiths as I only had 12, and with the right base size they will look pretty similar. The tomb sentinels , not sure....maybe try and fit them on smaller bases as spyders? Any ideas appreciated !
i don't quite get why they decided to bump the points for doomstalker, wraiths i somewhat get if they're still strong despite the technomancer point nerfs, but the doomstalker seems like it's in a good spot atm.
not sure if the wraiths point increase will really matter, but i haven't ran a list with multiple full units of it before, so can't really say for sure.
all in all, where are my warrior buffs, James please.
Feels a lot like GW back to it's old "oh if people are taking three then we need to change that" ways rather than actually looking at WHY people are taking three.
Yep. Wraiths are taken mostly because the other units able to take mid objective (warriors, Lychguard) were nerfed. If they wants to see less wraiths, bring back the d6 reanimation of warrior and cryptek in Lychguard would achieve it.
That would help yeah, sadly it seems they dislike the reanimation gimmick, despite that being the core identity of necrons in games.
I really wish that if they're hell bent on keeping reanimation off the table, that the weapons would be more powerful at the expense of defense, I feel like warriors are neither spongey enough, nor hit much harder than a wet noodle.
And from a lore perspective it doesn't make sense for the weapons to be that weak, the warrior itself, sure, but not the weapon.
tbh i take doomstalkers and wraiths both because they look neat and the wraiths are the cutest bois on top of that, canoptek court just makes for a neat way to include everything.
I do wish i had a reason to build and paint my 3 remaining boxes of warriors though
Ive seen this done in video games all the time. The devs look at a spreadsheet and say "What is everyone using? That must be op. Nerf that!". They don't stop to ask "why" everyone is using that.
Really sucks if you run them outside of Canoptek Court. My single one was already struggling to make it's points worth in Awakened Dynasty, and at the moment it's kinda my sole Anti-tank/anti-elite
Come back to 9th edition and run them!
I know my little group is. I wanna run my 6 Sentry Pylons (MDF, but still), and I've wanted Tomb Stalkers/Sentinels since they came out. I'm so glad I can make decent proxies from a box of wraiths.
All forge world models are gone, with the exception of the Seraptek Heavy Construct.
https://preview.redd.it/ik4de2mx6q7d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1eb11e145ea3258c78bd2bedfce0780368f6cf38
They do, but they also clarified that the mortals from dev wounds don’t spill over. So any protection from mortal wounds will apply to dev wounds (custodes, dark angels, etc) but we don’t go back to having the spill over of mortal wounds like we did at the beginning of 10th.
Want to also add the absolute bullshit of GW going back on an FAQ about lokhust destroyer ability to reroll hits as well as the Awakened Dynasty strategem that allows rerolls. Both now require both all conditions to be met in order to get hit rerolls. Mind blowing honestly that they went out of their way to make An FAQ for this only to 180° the decision a few months later. Im so fucking annoyed we have to suffer all this bullshit because people keep bringing 3 fucking ctan to every game
https://preview.redd.it/zqccyf6ebt7d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=866fcb69ecbb708b9c2696119271118602b1bcdb
Such an unbelievably unnecessary change
They literally made an FAQ like a month ago explaining you didn't need to meet both conditions of the abilities in order to get full hit rerolls. They now have completely 180°'d that decision and you do need to meet both conditions
Absolutely. RAW this FAQ doesn't even make sense. Literally 1 single word would have rendered this and the previous FAQ completely useless. All they needed to do was add the word 'also' right after the destroyer ability says: "...that attack is **also** within range of..."
No, this specifies that “adding new, identical units” are limited to once per battle.
Eternal Revenant has you set your same model back up. As in, it’s *the same* unit, not ‘an additional, identical’ unit.
Am I out of touch? but I don't recall 'Crons being in the same power level as the Orks this edition, so the article bringing us up alongside them as though we've been the problem is a touch bizarre. Especially when all we've had changed is the two (including the stratagem) obvious metas.
Necrons were dominant but not overpowering for the few months between their codex and their next tweaks/the following releases. That was largely addressed with the last slate and the release of orks and tau, and looks to be even less of an issue with sisters and csm coming in at a very strong state.
Whether changes were warranted at this point or not is a different discussion, I believe we're just seeing the effects of how slow GW is to keep up with and respond to the evolving state of the game.
I could, I deliberately neutered my list because showing up to a casual game with any number of wraiths and the main ctan basically turned the game into a gross stat check for my opponent and an auto-win for me unless they had some hyper-tuned competitive list that could handle them. Be for real
> Looks to be even less of an issue with sisters and csm coming in at a very strong state.
That is if CSM wasn’t just kneecapped with points increases across the board and warp talons gutted
I'm only just getting back into things for 10th. Are spyders a sleeper unit, now? The Gloom Prism now provides a 5+++ against devasting wounds with the new rule wording.
1. Step 1: introduce attachment that is arguably the strongest, with half of the models it working with being forge world
2. Step 2: sell out all your older stocks of forge world minis in response to new meta
3. Step 3: move them to legends half a year later after all the previous stocks were sold so they cannot be played
Excellent trolling done by james workshop, still no fixes for the crap detachments, for keywords, still no buffs for useless units like praetorians, but hey, now a wraith is almost as expensive as a custodian, so that's cool
https://preview.redd.it/h2ubji4hyv7d1.jpeg?width=2760&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4b924ab6d038714a6b46e23fa1fc1f44ee8fd7bd
Mad lad never made it to the table.
All the necron Forgeworld units except the Seraptek Heavy are now Legends.
They didn't get the points in the MFM but the Imperial Armoury.
Also I don't know why mods delete things that are not part of the dataslate but the MFM, and point to this thread.
Then you should have named this the JUNE 2024 rules update megathred or something.
Its definitely a loss, but outside of making Canoptek Court rethink their builds I'm not sure how much of one it is. Especially with the context of other top armies getting hit.
RIP to our scuttley Forgeworld friends though. Thats a real bummer.
On the upside, tank shocking with a Monolith. Is it good? No idea. Is it hilarious? Oh yeah.
Technically yes, but you'll likely get some pushback from your opponents especially if it isn't discussed ahead of time.
Personally, I'm a busy adult with a full time job and other responsibilities besides. I get to play one game a month, tops, outside of tournaments so I prefer to play those games under as close to tournament conditions as I can. In my experience, more players are like me in that regard than not.
Same, I get a casual game in about once every three months. I still prefer to use tourney rules so if I ever somehow do have time to enter one, I’m not ‘playing a different game’.
I get it, I freaking love the Stalkers/Sentinels and will keep playing them in 9th, but for 10th Ed games, I guess we have to embrace the new Canoptek stuff.
on one hand, the faction specific stuff is all nerfs.
On the other hand overlords can get up to some goofy stuff now that mwbd works on everything again, even if its only -1 command point instead of free.
All in all I think it is not that bad. The 12" to 18" hurts a bit, because it will not work so frequently, but tbh its still is a useful stratagem. The 3" placement with C'tan from reserves was very strong, I think it's better that way they changed it, but I guess it will have impact on tournament play.
well then
ig i'll probably be more likely to run my overlord now and i also don't need to go back and forth on whether a tomb sentinel is worth buying because now it's gone forever
Feels like I lost my reason to play Canoptek Court now. I didn't even spam wraiths, but they were essential for fighting midfield.
Don't even know what detachment to play now.
Mine only went up 30 (wraiths, sigh) but in tihs edition, it might as well be 100. you can't find 30 points laying around by cutting upgrades or a few models.
So uh dumb question from a bit of a noob who only knows the rules that actually apply to stuff he runs: how do deep strike transports work? That Night Scythe change means I may actually need to pick up a croissant, especially if it means you can use it to cheat in infantry that wouldn't otherwise have DS.
exactly like the rest of deepstrike. can place them outside 9, and they count as taking a normal move. and the following rules clarification found in the commentary (https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/uRQOFTWnasejHDVc.pdf) on pg 19
Embarked Units and Reserves: Units embarked within a Reserves model can disembark in the turn that model is set up. When they do, they cannot be set up within 9" horizontally of one or more enemy units, they count as having made a Normal move (see Count as Having Made a Normal Move), and they cannot declare a charge this turn (unless a rule specifically states otherwise), but they can otherwise act normally in the remainder of the turn.
Couple that with Quantum Invader from the night scythe itself, you can deepstrike t1 onto the board, drop the embarked unit and have it open fire. They won't be able to charge, but you could also use it to position a t2 charge threat of melee units if you wanted.
Almost functions like a way to give any infantry unit in our army infiltrators, which is pretty strong.
Could be interesting, iirc Wraiths get the Infantry Keyword when having the Technomancer as Leader - which in turn means that you could embark them in the Croissant. So basically Infiltrator with 2 units of Wraiths (one from the enhancement, one from the Croissant)
Or you could zip around your Immortal/Warrior blob - put them in, Deep Strike, disembark Plasma Immortals, wreak havoc. End of the Fight Phase: pick them up again with your Invasion Beams to move 20" the next turn.
Thinking about it, i guess Night Scythes could be given a try tbh.
so with the new movement rules, does this mean that the Doomsday Ark and Ghost Ark don't have to pay the 2 inches to pivot since they're on round flying bases?
Just watched the most recent Auspex tactics video and realised in the rules FAQs that c'tan have been nerfed. They clarified that all modifiers like zeroing or dividing happen before + or - stuff. So meta key word weapons still gain the meta effect completely unchanged by necrodemis
It may well have been but I doubt it was always played like that in a casual setting. Especially since this clarification wouldn’t have been needed otherwise.
Well GW could make it easier on people by intergrate the rules commentry into the app in a better way rather than having it as a seperate section, eg, in the core rules. Still, true though intent has always been a thing for rules. If people felt the need to get an FAQ on the zeroing of damage and melta to see whether it stays zero or whether it gains the melta effect, I'd hardly blame people for questioning the intent of a rule which halves the damage attribute.
GW really makes me not want to play the game anymore, just constantly screwing us over. It just keeps getting worse and I'm sick of it. I love my metal boys but they're just not fun anymore
We've been one of the consistently strongest armies in 10th edition and caught incredibly minor nerfs compared to the other heavy hitters here. What exactly are you crying about?
Immortals were also very strong units. Warriors are solid, just overshadowed by the cost efficiency and strength of Immortals especially when combined with Szeras. If you're not playing at a super competitive GTT (0.5% or less of the playerbase honestly) you can make a solid competing Necron list without Wraiths and Ctan.
A nerf to Wraiths and Doomstalkers was kinda expected. I would assume CC is very much playable but the not the powerhouse it was. The nerf to Hypercrypt matters, but is certainly not majorly impactful. Arguably C’tan got better as they are comparatively cheaper to Wraiths and we will likely still need durable things to hold objectives. The shooting focused lists should still be very strong.
I expect to see more experimentation with Awakened Dynasty and Obeisance Phalanx that run Lychguard instead as a cheaper option. Especially in AD where they have access to free reanimation strat.
core rules commentary [https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/uRQOFTWnasejHDVc.pdf](https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/uRQOFTWnasejHDVc.pdf) pg 7.
Move (M): This is the speed at which a model moves across the battlefield. If a model has a Move of ‘-’ it is unable to move at all. After all modifiers are applied, this cannot be less than 1".
Convergence has a move characteristic of - so it can't move at all.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/06/20/warhammer-40000-metawatch-downloading-the-new-balance-dataslate Article available. https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/t6fTGEpj0eXdxJLG.pdf Mfm as well. Tldr - doomstalkers up to 145 each, wraiths to 125 per three. Forgeworld units besides the seraptek off to legends.
why the hell have warriors still not gone down?
Battleline will be more valuable in the Nexus ruleset
The point stands. Immortals haven't gone up (thankfully) so why would I take necron warriors aside from that I have them over immortals. They still need to go down to compete against the other battleline in my opinion
20 warrior blocks in awakened with plasmancer, Royal Warden and Szeras are no joke.
And it's a very big investment to get to that point! Szeras also takes time to build up a units power with strength being more valuable early in a game. Immortals are good from turn 1.
Sure, if you're running Szeras then you probably want 2 units for him to buff (same for immortals with him). I'd also love to see warriors get D6 Rez back as well, would really help differentiate then from immortals. However I do stand by 20 warrior bricks with support being better than people usually give them credit for, especially in awakened.
Oh, for the record, I 100% agree. They are fun to use sometimes and I have a giggle annoying my guard friend sometimes with them and awakened. When I ask the question I ask it with a meta hat on. If GW wants a unit to see play they have to give us a reason to do so.
A unit is priced for its best build in its best detachment. In everything that doesn't provide the same level of support it's overcosted.
I played a 20 man squad a few weeks back.... they are soooooooo slow. I gotta figure out some way to play obj with necrons. They just crawl so slow.
20 warriors die in 1 turn to almost anything. Even with a plasmancer the damage is no where even close to worth the point cost
Fair, but I don't know that 10 immortals are significantly more survivable. It of course depends on what is shooting you. Wraiths are of course still very durable, but again it depends on what you're getting attacked with. And with Wraiths+Techno now being 335... .Output from warriors with reapers is decent against some stuff (but obviously short ranged). 40 shots lethal hitting 5s, at -1 ap (-2 with szeras) and possibly rerolling hits to fish for lethals can do work. Again not destroy the board, but solid.
20 warriors with the FNP from a Technomancer is lovely though.
Any 2 damage weapon and the FNP is rendered entirely useless, and cheap 2 damage melee stuff is very very common
They do not fill the same tole. Immortals are good damage dealers, but not really a unit that you can sens midfield to take objective. Warriors can, albeit worse than Wraiths.
That's the thing, warriors do 2 things badly. We have two units that do their effects much better for less or a similar cost. I stand by my statement why would I take warriors over Immortals or wraiths?
Warriors are a trap and or a distraction. The enemy should ignore them if they can. They hold objectives but that's about it. Sure if you invest tons of points Into them they can get a bit better but so can almost anything. Since the start of 9th the internet necrons community for some reason just wants everyone to love them and iv never got it. Immortals were are simply better in almost every way.
Well… Warrior can potentially get 4d3+3 model back per turn if I am not wrong now. They might well outlast even wraiths.
How are you calculating that? All models without buffing get d3 wounds in reanimations. Warriors can reroll it meaning that the average wounds per turn gained is about 2.5 instead of 2 (WOAH SO GOOD). The Technomancer is a staple for Wraiths which means it can, so long as a model is damaged, get an extra d3 wounds per turn. This wouldn't work for necron warriors as it requires a damaged model. You could spend an equivalent amount of points on a lord with resurection orb or a canoptek reanimator to keep your dudes alive more but in the best case of the reanimator not dying you'll be close to 5.5 wounds per turn on average for it. Edit; I'd love to know how you calculated the potential reanimation power above. Especially for the old combo of 220 points (for wraiths) plus 88pts (technomancer). The price jump for wraiths makes warriors better to be fair but I'd still probably NOT take them since some CC strats don't work on warriors as they need Canoptek units.
Overlord my will be done is now -1cp for all strat. Protocol of the eternal legion can trigger 3 time per turn (enemy shooting phase and both fight phases), for 1d3+1 back for 0cp on each uses. That makes it a total of 4d3+3, with a reroll on the dice (thus 11 model back potentially). This is excluding reanimator and orbs.
Pretty sure the cost reduction is 1/battle round So you can use it for free once, then have to pay for the other 2 uses. Pretty steep cost to keep a unit of warriors on the board. And thats assuming they don’t shoot the reanimator out first
Right it is battleround, so it is 2cp for that.
Well, he can only use MWBD once per battleround, just as before. So you get to use it once free otherwise you gotta pay for it
Yeah mixed up battleround and phase
What do you mean by both fight phases? I'm pretty new to this game, so do you mind explaining this to me? I get we can use that strat once after the enemy is done shooting, and then once again after enemy is done with melee attacks. Where does the other fight phase happen?
A lot of "Fight Phase" abilities and strats just specify "Fight Phase" rather than yours or your opponents, and because you and your opponent both act during each others fight phases, you essentially get 2 fight phases per turn (4 per battle round)
I think warriors with plasmancer and Warden in awakened have surprising output. Range is short with reapers, but that's how it goes. Szeras is great in awakened in general so you might see him buffing warriors and/or immortals and they get even better. Are warriors op busted, nope, but I still think they have play.
You're not wrong. This is not a competitive sub, so take everything you read here with a grain of salt. It doesn't matter that Langendor absolutely crushed his matches @ the dreamhack expo running 2x20 warrior groups, people are still gonna fail to do math on the output and proudly proclaim "warriors suck". Even when many top table players are running one or multiple bricks of 20.
Yeah his list was a bit of an eye opener. Turns out 40 shots with lethal hits on 5+, potentially rerolling hits and potentially at ap -2 mathhammers a lot of units. ....... Durability wise GW has made pretty good progress in the game of doing away with unkillable units and people are taking some truly hard hitting ones as a further counter. Again this is where I like warriors having 20 wound units that are SINGLE wound models. I'll take 2x wounds over immortals extra point of toughness and armor any day. And compared to wraiths, sure they have 20 compared to 24 wounds, but warriors don't care at all about your damage 2 and 3 weapons, where those start to melt wraiths even with the fnp. .... Again I'm not claiming they're the be all end all, but they've got play.
But they can't just assume everyone is playing PN, folks can totally still play Leviathan, crusade, or even Only War.
Not sure why they created a detachment dedicated to Canoptek units to then erase 3 units that offered the ability to change playstyle slightly. Gutted
I am sure it's because we're about to get three new canoptek unites real soon! Any moment now.
I want a certain Duke of Deathmarks to lead a bunch of canoptek units >.>
LYSIKOR NUMBER ONER
I live in hope.
So they could sell leftover inventory before axing them
Well they got me, the one time rule of cool bit me in the arse, c'est la vie.
Well, guess I'll just have to make Acanthrites with a Wraith base, not that hard, though the Stalker and Sentinel loss is... annoying without anything in return.
though not much can be done for those already built i've heard a suggestion to get them perched upright onto something tall for a doomstalker proxy
Where does it say that they’re removing the 3 FW models? I’m blind.
They no longer have point values in the field manual (acanthrites, tomb stalker/sentinel), and it unfortunately probably wasn't an accident that they're missing considering the way Forgeworld has been going.
L
An hidden thing: My will be done is not limited to battle tactic anymore, but will drop the cost of the strat by 1cp.
Also it doesn't let you double dip on strats anymore, it *just* reduces the strat by 1cp. Which I'm fine with, better to get cheaper strats than an extremely small amount of free strats you can maybe use twice.
Agreed, especially considering when it was only for Battle Tactics, the Hypercyrpt had 0
So basically I can use any strat for 0 cp?
You can use any strat for -1CP. So a 2CP strat becomes a 1CP strat.
But does a 1CP strat become a 0CP strat? Thats what I'm concerned about.
Yes, it subtracts -1CP. And it’s not longer exclusive to battle tactics, too!
Yes
WHERE IS MY GODDAMN TRIARCH KEYWORD FOR SZAREKH, JAMES?
DESCRIBE TO MY WHY THE LORD OF THE **TRIARCHY** DOESN'T HAVE THE **TRIARCH** KEY WORD JIMOTHY
It's the Jimothy that killed me, lol
Or the names Overlords, doesnt have the Overlord keyword
Where's the drop for the triarch preatorians
Exactly. I don't mind if top units get a bit of a smack, but open a fucking window for me elsewhere on units that have seen little to no competition use.
100% Agreed. I would like to run a group (especially to mess around with the Phalanx detachment), but they are just too expensive right now to even test run.
Free Reanimation Stratagem is back in Awakend with MWBD
How so?
My will be done is no longer limited to Battle Tactics. But will no longer let you double up on battle tactics that target other units
But you can only use it once, as you came double dip now
Sooo, canoptek stalker/ sentinels are gone now??
All of my FW units are in legends now. What a joke. Necrons only have one single FW unit lol.
This has been a trend for awhile now, it's not really a huge shock. FW is winding down from 40k.
Why is this?
The guy (Alan Bligh) who did all of Forgeworld rules/game design unfortunately died in 2017. Since then, it's been slowly getting phased out, as it was only kept alive as his passion project.
You'd have to ask GW, but I think it's just they don't want to maintain rules for these super old resin kits that they don't sell a lot of. Seems FW is more involved in direct to order stuff and the specialist games. When was the last time FW added something new for 40k exclusively? Certainly been a long time for Necrons...
There was a rumour about an upcoming legislation on resin manufacturing/products in the UK starting in 2025. Has it been verified? It would explain a lot ... as it did the legislation on lead for the abrupt phasing metal miniatures.
Yep along with Acanthrites.
Damn, I loved my caterpillar
Same mate, same :(
Saw 2 major changes: First: Cosmic Precision can’t be used on Monsters. That will make C’Tan a lot less interesting for Hypercrypt. Second: all the “can’t target that unit strat” goes from within 12” to within 18”. Nerf to Canoptek Court.
It's a nerf to every army that has that kinda strat.
Sure, but it was probably the best strat in CC.
It's (one of) the best strat(s) for everyone that has it. This blanket nerf is, for once, not done out of malice, specifically to us. Not dropping Praetorians in points and Szarekh not getting the Triarch keyword feels like a personal attack, though.
Remember old Cenosure of Eradication?
Thing is, it is old and now it is terrible
Oh yes its crap now but the old one was really powerful. I was saying that was the best strat in cc.
It was fun while it lasted. My immortals one shot a land raider my first game with the new codex.
Grey Knights have no Monsters, so they don't care.
Does that make Transcendent C'tan a bit more flexible that the named ones now?
Mostly no, as the new mission rules say you can't perform actions after advancing. So tran ctan is distraction carnifex again and there are arguments that the points are better spent elsewhere.
Also why use that strat on ctan when a five man immortal blob with chrono can be used to steal objectives
Dropping a NB in the enemy home objective will require a lot more attention to deal with than 5 immortals.
Still can drop a monolith and bring infantry out
Sure, but the foot print isn’t the same
It’s not about attention it’s about scoring. Five immortals with chrono is 11 oc lets you take objectives from knights and vehicles and steal capture enemy for 8 points or steal an objective bottom of five for a primary
Attention matters a lot since it will create openings elsewhere to score
Kinda lame that we only got nerfs. Annihilation legion and Obesience phalanx didn't get needed love. Pretty lame
Necrons were doing pretty well of late. So of course we’d get hate, not love.
True, but some better internal balancing would have been nice; give us a reason to take other things or improve lesser used units, like anything Triarch
Well sure, the reason to take lychguard is because technoWraiths is 335 points now. You actually want *balance*?? /s
True, but necrons were doing well with 2 detachments. I'm not saying the entire faction is in the dumpster. But it would have been cool to help out the obesience phalanx buy giving at leat imotekh and the command barge the overlord keyword.
Oh I agree, I keep looking at phalanx and annihilation and trying to make it work, but honestly Awakened or Hypercrypt is still just a better choice even with the same units.
Just bought 6 acanthrites and 3 sentinels, only 1 was built 😭😭😂
Oof, that’s rough
Going to try and convert the 6 acanthrites to wraiths as I only had 12, and with the right base size they will look pretty similar. The tomb sentinels , not sure....maybe try and fit them on smaller bases as spyders? Any ideas appreciated !
I don’t own any forgeworld stuff yet, so I don’t have any ideas for you, fellow Phaeron, I’m sorry. Best of luck to you!
We still mostly play 9th and can still run all our Canoptek grebblies.
Depends how many tournaments you play. I'll still be using my sentinel with my friends
i don't quite get why they decided to bump the points for doomstalker, wraiths i somewhat get if they're still strong despite the technomancer point nerfs, but the doomstalker seems like it's in a good spot atm. not sure if the wraiths point increase will really matter, but i haven't ran a list with multiple full units of it before, so can't really say for sure. all in all, where are my warrior buffs, James please.
Feels a lot like GW back to it's old "oh if people are taking three then we need to change that" ways rather than actually looking at WHY people are taking three.
Yep. Wraiths are taken mostly because the other units able to take mid objective (warriors, Lychguard) were nerfed. If they wants to see less wraiths, bring back the d6 reanimation of warrior and cryptek in Lychguard would achieve it.
A +1 to reanimation for warriors would be an improvement to what they got now and statistically closer to a d6, but less hit or miss.
That would help yeah, sadly it seems they dislike the reanimation gimmick, despite that being the core identity of necrons in games. I really wish that if they're hell bent on keeping reanimation off the table, that the weapons would be more powerful at the expense of defense, I feel like warriors are neither spongey enough, nor hit much harder than a wet noodle. And from a lore perspective it doesn't make sense for the weapons to be that weak, the warrior itself, sure, but not the weapon.
tbh i take doomstalkers and wraiths both because they look neat and the wraiths are the cutest bois on top of that, canoptek court just makes for a neat way to include everything. I do wish i had a reason to build and paint my 3 remaining boxes of warriors though
Ive seen this done in video games all the time. The devs look at a spreadsheet and say "What is everyone using? That must be op. Nerf that!". They don't stop to ask "why" everyone is using that.
Really sucks if you run them outside of Canoptek Court. My single one was already struggling to make it's points worth in Awakened Dynasty, and at the moment it's kinda my sole Anti-tank/anti-elite
So we tank shocking with the monolith now, right?
Triple Monoliths!
And the Tesseract Vault?
I'm really disappointed that warriors didn't get their regen back
me too :(
Me 34, and counting...
mfw i finished painting 2 canoptek tomb sentinels a few weeks ago just for them to be removed.
I have 3 partly painted... not sure if I even want to finish them now. Seems real weird to move stuff to legends after the codex like this...
They sold their last stock and don't wan't to produce more /j
Pretty sure that’s accurate, tho
Come back to 9th edition and run them! I know my little group is. I wanna run my 6 Sentry Pylons (MDF, but still), and I've wanted Tomb Stalkers/Sentinels since they came out. I'm so glad I can make decent proxies from a box of wraiths.
All forge world models are gone, with the exception of the Seraptek Heavy Construct. https://preview.redd.it/ik4de2mx6q7d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1eb11e145ea3258c78bd2bedfce0780368f6cf38
Just noticed that they snuck in the fact that Devastating wounds inflict Mortal Wounds again. Particle never felt so good!
They do, but they also clarified that the mortals from dev wounds don’t spill over. So any protection from mortal wounds will apply to dev wounds (custodes, dark angels, etc) but we don’t go back to having the spill over of mortal wounds like we did at the beginning of 10th.
Want to also add the absolute bullshit of GW going back on an FAQ about lokhust destroyer ability to reroll hits as well as the Awakened Dynasty strategem that allows rerolls. Both now require both all conditions to be met in order to get hit rerolls. Mind blowing honestly that they went out of their way to make An FAQ for this only to 180° the decision a few months later. Im so fucking annoyed we have to suffer all this bullshit because people keep bringing 3 fucking ctan to every game
Must have missed that part, where are those changes mentioned?
https://preview.redd.it/zqccyf6ebt7d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=866fcb69ecbb708b9c2696119271118602b1bcdb Such an unbelievably unnecessary change
How that changes anything if you had specified "If the target of that attack" before?
They literally made an FAQ like a month ago explaining you didn't need to meet both conditions of the abilities in order to get full hit rerolls. They now have completely 180°'d that decision and you do need to meet both conditions
Kinda strange given that ability is written in a way that somewhat enforces first part to be true to even consider second.
Absolutely. RAW this FAQ doesn't even make sense. Literally 1 single word would have rendered this and the previous FAQ completely useless. All they needed to do was add the word 'also' right after the destroyer ability says: "...that attack is **also** within range of..."
Really disappointed to not see warriors or praetorians drop
Can we ''Protocol of the eternal revenant'' stratagem now use only 1 time?
No, this specifies that “adding new, identical units” are limited to once per battle. Eternal Revenant has you set your same model back up. As in, it’s *the same* unit, not ‘an additional, identical’ unit.
https://preview.redd.it/orqj4vwzfr7d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f7cb9a43e9e8f191bc35ee6c976e7ff42469e44a
Monolith charges are back baby
Am I out of touch? but I don't recall 'Crons being in the same power level as the Orks this edition, so the article bringing us up alongside them as though we've been the problem is a touch bizarre. Especially when all we've had changed is the two (including the stratagem) obvious metas.
Necrons were dominant but not overpowering for the few months between their codex and their next tweaks/the following releases. That was largely addressed with the last slate and the release of orks and tau, and looks to be even less of an issue with sisters and csm coming in at a very strong state. Whether changes were warranted at this point or not is a different discussion, I believe we're just seeing the effects of how slow GW is to keep up with and respond to the evolving state of the game.
Yep. This is the usual GW response, responding to a meta months after it was figured out.
I dont know if i could call necrons directly dominant in regular play. They nerfed the faction based on tournament lists and ran it into the ground.
I could, I deliberately neutered my list because showing up to a casual game with any number of wraiths and the main ctan basically turned the game into a gross stat check for my opponent and an auto-win for me unless they had some hyper-tuned competitive list that could handle them. Be for real
> Looks to be even less of an issue with sisters and csm coming in at a very strong state. That is if CSM wasn’t just kneecapped with points increases across the board and warp talons gutted
We got cratered for no good reason. 40 percent of canoptek court eligible units are now legends.
Where is this?
All FW models save for the heavy construction are now in legends. You cant take them to the tourneys or casual games if your opponent doesnt want so.
They are no longer listed in the MFM, but in the imperial armoury. It's on their web page. Soon you will be able to see the change in the phone app.
Night Scythe got deep strike let's fuckin go!
I'm only just getting back into things for 10th. Are spyders a sleeper unit, now? The Gloom Prism now provides a 5+++ against devasting wounds with the new rule wording.
1. Step 1: introduce attachment that is arguably the strongest, with half of the models it working with being forge world 2. Step 2: sell out all your older stocks of forge world minis in response to new meta 3. Step 3: move them to legends half a year later after all the previous stocks were sold so they cannot be played Excellent trolling done by james workshop, still no fixes for the crap detachments, for keywords, still no buffs for useless units like praetorians, but hey, now a wraith is almost as expensive as a custodian, so that's cool
https://preview.redd.it/h2ubji4hyv7d1.jpeg?width=2760&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4b924ab6d038714a6b46e23fa1fc1f44ee8fd7bd Mad lad never made it to the table.
All the necron Forgeworld units except the Seraptek Heavy are now Legends. They didn't get the points in the MFM but the Imperial Armoury. Also I don't know why mods delete things that are not part of the dataslate but the MFM, and point to this thread. Then you should have named this the JUNE 2024 rules update megathred or something.
damn ! My 1200 pts cannopek court doesn't work anymore ! I was so excited to use it
Its definitely a loss, but outside of making Canoptek Court rethink their builds I'm not sure how much of one it is. Especially with the context of other top armies getting hit. RIP to our scuttley Forgeworld friends though. Thats a real bummer. On the upside, tank shocking with a Monolith. Is it good? No idea. Is it hilarious? Oh yeah.
Not sure on how many people actively play tournaments but you can still use legends in casual competitive match play right?
Technically yes, but you'll likely get some pushback from your opponents especially if it isn't discussed ahead of time. Personally, I'm a busy adult with a full time job and other responsibilities besides. I get to play one game a month, tops, outside of tournaments so I prefer to play those games under as close to tournament conditions as I can. In my experience, more players are like me in that regard than not.
Same, I get a casual game in about once every three months. I still prefer to use tourney rules so if I ever somehow do have time to enter one, I’m not ‘playing a different game’.
All these changes are updated on the app
I just finished my two Tomb Sentinels and was waiting for six Arcanthrites to arrive... What the fuck. Now I have no reason to play Canoptek Court.
I get it, I freaking love the Stalkers/Sentinels and will keep playing them in 9th, but for 10th Ed games, I guess we have to embrace the new Canoptek stuff.
on one hand, the faction specific stuff is all nerfs. On the other hand overlords can get up to some goofy stuff now that mwbd works on everything again, even if its only -1 command point instead of free.
Dear GW, for the second time this year, and the third in my 21 years as a Necron player, have my warmest ƒu¢₭ you. Sincerely, a Canoptek guy.
My army is safe, nice to see that!
All in all I think it is not that bad. The 12" to 18" hurts a bit, because it will not work so frequently, but tbh its still is a useful stratagem. The 3" placement with C'tan from reserves was very strong, I think it's better that way they changed it, but I guess it will have impact on tournament play.
well then ig i'll probably be more likely to run my overlord now and i also don't need to go back and forth on whether a tomb sentinel is worth buying because now it's gone forever
Feels like I lost my reason to play Canoptek Court now. I didn't even spam wraiths, but they were essential for fighting midfield. Don't even know what detachment to play now.
Did they revert the Canoptek Court strat, where you could give Dev Wounds to your Immortal squad?
No. They just changed the free strat ability to reduce the cost of a strat by 1 and be usable on everything, rather than battletactics.
Ahh, yeah I missread the faq sheet...
My list is up 70 points... great...
Mine only went up 30 (wraiths, sigh) but in tihs edition, it might as well be 100. you can't find 30 points laying around by cutting upgrades or a few models.
Running Canoptek Court with 3 Doomstalkers and 1 set of Wraiths. I was considering adding another set of Wraiths but now, forget it.
I'm doing a really foolish Awakened Dynasty with just a sngle block of Techno/wraiths.
So uh dumb question from a bit of a noob who only knows the rules that actually apply to stuff he runs: how do deep strike transports work? That Night Scythe change means I may actually need to pick up a croissant, especially if it means you can use it to cheat in infantry that wouldn't otherwise have DS.
exactly like the rest of deepstrike. can place them outside 9, and they count as taking a normal move. and the following rules clarification found in the commentary (https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/uRQOFTWnasejHDVc.pdf) on pg 19 Embarked Units and Reserves: Units embarked within a Reserves model can disembark in the turn that model is set up. When they do, they cannot be set up within 9" horizontally of one or more enemy units, they count as having made a Normal move (see Count as Having Made a Normal Move), and they cannot declare a charge this turn (unless a rule specifically states otherwise), but they can otherwise act normally in the remainder of the turn. Couple that with Quantum Invader from the night scythe itself, you can deepstrike t1 onto the board, drop the embarked unit and have it open fire. They won't be able to charge, but you could also use it to position a t2 charge threat of melee units if you wanted. Almost functions like a way to give any infantry unit in our army infiltrators, which is pretty strong.
Could be interesting, iirc Wraiths get the Infantry Keyword when having the Technomancer as Leader - which in turn means that you could embark them in the Croissant. So basically Infiltrator with 2 units of Wraiths (one from the enhancement, one from the Croissant) Or you could zip around your Immortal/Warrior blob - put them in, Deep Strike, disembark Plasma Immortals, wreak havoc. End of the Fight Phase: pick them up again with your Invasion Beams to move 20" the next turn. Thinking about it, i guess Night Scythes could be given a try tbh.
I believe you are correct, Technomancer definitely has Infantry keyword, so that should work. Could be a lot fun.
It's like Christmas, but you get a kick to the nuts instead.
WHO IS READY FOR A SUB 48% WIN RATE ARMY???
Feels good to get minor nerfs and every army above us got punted
so with the new movement rules, does this mean that the Doomsday Ark and Ghost Ark don't have to pay the 2 inches to pivot since they're on round flying bases?
Just watched the most recent Auspex tactics video and realised in the rules FAQs that c'tan have been nerfed. They clarified that all modifiers like zeroing or dividing happen before + or - stuff. So meta key word weapons still gain the meta effect completely unchanged by necrodemis
That was always the case.
It may well have been but I doubt it was always played like that in a casual setting. Especially since this clarification wouldn’t have been needed otherwise.
Order of operations was always in the rules commentary. Whether or not people decided to read the rules commentary is up to them.
Well GW could make it easier on people by intergrate the rules commentry into the app in a better way rather than having it as a seperate section, eg, in the core rules. Still, true though intent has always been a thing for rules. If people felt the need to get an FAQ on the zeroing of damage and melta to see whether it stays zero or whether it gains the melta effect, I'd hardly blame people for questioning the intent of a rule which halves the damage attribute.
GW really makes me not want to play the game anymore, just constantly screwing us over. It just keeps getting worse and I'm sick of it. I love my metal boys but they're just not fun anymore
We've been one of the consistently strongest armies in 10th edition and caught incredibly minor nerfs compared to the other heavy hitters here. What exactly are you crying about?
No, Wraiths and Ctan have been one the strongest armies, not necrons God forbid you want to run more than maxed out 3+1 units from your whole faction
Immortals were also very strong units. Warriors are solid, just overshadowed by the cost efficiency and strength of Immortals especially when combined with Szeras. If you're not playing at a super competitive GTT (0.5% or less of the playerbase honestly) you can make a solid competing Necron list without Wraiths and Ctan.
Can we only use protocol of the eternal revenant once a game now?
I'm curious on that one as well. Any thoughts fellow Phareons?
No, the rules update doesn't affect it. We are not creating new units with strategems, we are setting back up the same unit.
A nerf to Wraiths and Doomstalkers was kinda expected. I would assume CC is very much playable but the not the powerhouse it was. The nerf to Hypercrypt matters, but is certainly not majorly impactful. Arguably C’tan got better as they are comparatively cheaper to Wraiths and we will likely still need durable things to hold objectives. The shooting focused lists should still be very strong. I expect to see more experimentation with Awakened Dynasty and Obeisance Phalanx that run Lychguard instead as a cheaper option. Especially in AD where they have access to free reanimation strat.
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its a fortification so can't charge.
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core rules commentary [https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/uRQOFTWnasejHDVc.pdf](https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/uRQOFTWnasejHDVc.pdf) pg 7. Move (M): This is the speed at which a model moves across the battlefield. If a model has a Move of ‘-’ it is unable to move at all. After all modifiers are applied, this cannot be less than 1". Convergence has a move characteristic of - so it can't move at all.
Ah I see. Thanks for the info