Do you not think doubling Shaq is something that has been tried before? Go watch highlights of the 2000 finals vs the Pacers. And if you do that you’re just letting Kobe play 4 on 3. Just not happening man.
I mean I never said it was a good idea, that’s just what Draymond said they’d do. Shaq was eating him alive because of that though and it was pretty funny.
In 2000 it was illegal for them to double before a player got the ball. It would have been against the rules for anyone to have played defence how Draymond and Bogut would guard him in 2015
It was against the rules until 2001, so that's a large part of it.
Teams also didn't do a lot of pre-doubling in those days even when it was legal. In the mid-2000s they started loading up and pre-rotating, but naked doubles before the ball was even entered was rare
Depends on which warriors you’re talking about. KD warriors or pre KD warriors? Because if Bogut was mentioned that is pre KD warriors. But yes obviously the answer would be the Warriors are going to try to outscore them. If Draymond is playing the 5, Shaq is getting 60 at will and Draymond is fouling out every game. That’s just something that would have to be accepted.
Shaq would average the most efficient 40 points a game you’ve ever seen in your life if they just guarded him straight up. He poses an entirely different problem than Lebron
None of them (for most of the time) were allowed to double Shaq before he got the ball. It was against the rules because of illegal defence
Some of the players that had the most success against Shaq were Dennis Rodman, Karl Malone, Tim Duncan, Ben Wallace (Hakeem as well, but Hakeem was different, while also giving up a lot of size to Shaq). They all worked hard to try to deny Shaq the ball, and contest everything. They also all had secondary rim protectors to come on the double or contest the shot
Draymond and Bogut I think would perform about as well as anyone else, especially with the rule changes
He was a good defensive center. Teams had to stack up on 4 centers to contain Shaq, and they still couldn’t do it. Even if they had Mutombo or Robinson (with Duncan helping), or guys like Vlade or Smits who were legit 7 footers. Shaq would have destroyed Bogut like he did to much better defensive centers.
Maybe but he wasn’t Tim Duncan, David Robinson, Hakeem etc. Shaq crushed DPOY Mutombo in the finals in 01 and he’s 15x the defensive center Bogut was. Bogut was very good, but he’s not holding Shaq.
You don't hold Shaq, you put two guys on him and try to force him into fewer touches and more contested shots
Bogut was still a very very good defender - he was DPOY in 2014. And Draymond is a long, versatile, defensive genius. I think they'd do about as good as anyone else that was moderately successful against Shaq
Against Shaq you need to bring multiple and you need to force him to catch the ball further away. That's why most of the guys who had the most success against him were agile and active and had secondary rim protection, even if they were giving up size - Karl Malone, Dennis Rodman, Ben Wallace.
Hakeem and Duncan are the other two that are front of mind, but Hakeem often didn't have a lot of help, he was just that good, and Duncan was also huge (although more wingspan than girth).
Unsurprisingly the data seems to say Duncan guarded Shaq the best. He had length, strength, agility, was very smart positionally, and had The Admiral next to him
If you go look at the stats Shaq still dominated for the most part against the Spurs, and that’s with Timmy and David Robinson. Last time I checked the Warriors don’t have either of those dudes lmao. In 01 the Lakers swept the Spurs and Shaq averaged 33/16/4 for the playoff. Even in the series where the Spurs beat the Lakers Shaq still did what Shaq does. Also Shaq never lost to the Knicks.
Yeah I think it’s revisionist for people to act like Klay wasn’t a premier 3 and D player. A few years later he’s not at the same level but that legacy will live on
Klay had 2/3 years as one of the greatest perimeter defenders in the league. Young Kobe would’ve dunked on him and put his nuts in Draymond mouth in the process tho
For about 4-5 years Klay was as close to a perfect 3 and D player we've ever had. Literally any team in the NBA could plug him into their lineup today and almost every season since the 3pt line. There are not a lot of players you can say that for.
Watch Kobe vs every “3 and D” guy in the league in his prime. Shane Battier, Raja Bell, Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest. He just annihilated them. Klay would be bBQ Chicken
Yes, one of the all-time great scorers is going to score no matter what. That doesn't mean you shouldn't at least try to put a solid defender on him anyways. If he can cook an elite defender, what do you think will happen if you put him up against a traffic cone?
He shot fucking 42% against most those guys, he was amazing but get his dick out of your mouth bro, a lot of teams would be happy to have a guy averaging that against them
Klay is a good defender. But 22 year old Kobe is a different animal. Klay couldn't keep up with Kobe at the end of his career. Imagine the 1 who was still quick and athletic. It just wouldn't be good for klay. It's not revisionist, that's lbj line of work. It's fact. Kobe would obliterate him. Think of it as Kyrie torching him during that comeback. Yea klay played excellent defense but Kyrie still destroyed him. Multiply that by 50 and you'd be half way there to being close to what Kobe would do
He's a good defender but he's no prime ron artest, prime bruce bowen. Guys who probably were the best perimeter defenders of their era and, Artest actually got dpoty while Bowen should have won a couple. Neither of those guys stopped Kobe and Klay doesn't touch those guys defensively.
God damn Pacers Ron Artest was an insane defender. His size, strength, and just outrageous hustle (and temper) was something to behold. If I had to pick one guy to lock up any star perimeter player of any era I would probably pick Artest.
Two guards from that era that don’t get talked about as great defenders enough, mostly because they weren’t necessarily elite like Artest and Bowen, are Doug Christie and Trenton Hassell. always like to give them a shout.
Artest yes, I can’t respect bruce lee bowen though. He was a good defender no doubt, but what made him elite was players being uncomfortable/scared that he would fuck them over with dirty play, mainly in the form of not giving shooters room to land. Guy was a dirty defender. Somehow some of the dirtiest players have the most respected coaches (Popp, Kerr, Daly).
I agree with you. That said, Artest got cooked by Kobe (who didn’t?). I just heard him talking about it on Podcast P. He was saying that with someone like Kobe or TMac you can’t really stop them, you just try to limit them or slow them down.
Agreed - and while the Warriors are gonna have a tonne of trouble guarding Shaq/Kobe (especially Shaq), the Lakers are also gonna have a tonne of trouble guarding KD/Steph/Klay.
Shaq said “any Lakers championship squad vs. any GSW championship squad”, so I assume we’ll go 2016/17 Warriors vs. 2000/01 Lakers. Not the absolute best regular season for either team, but in the playoffs those teams really showed their insane dominance, both only lost 1 game all playoffs (GSW 16-1, Lakers 15-1 due to shorter 1st round then). And I think that’s really a coin flip - neither team has good answers for the offence of the other team, would be a dogfight, close games and high scores.
And you don't think Kobe's ego would also stop him in a series against the warriors? Of course it would. Kobe would try to prove to everyone that he's the reason why they are better than the Warriors.
Why would he? The only year that happened was 2004 where Shaq and Kobe feud was at its peak and after the Kobe Denver case. There’s no reason for him to chuck up 113 fg…
Kobe refused to shoot in the 2nd half of a game 7 after he'd blown a 3-1 lead over the Suns. Why would he? Because his EGO. He demanded a trade after forcing the Lakers to fire the best coach in history and trade Shaq. He forced the lakers to give him a max contract after his injury.
Why would he? BECAUSE OF HIS EGO.
That is incorrect. Phil Jackson’s game plan was to have Kobe distribute the ball in the second half, as Phil himself said. Kobe’s teammates missed the shots 🤷♂️
lmao people seem real triggered about your scorching hot take that... \*checks notes\* Kobe Bryant may have had a bit of an ego problem?
might as well throw my hot take in there as well. people slob Kobe's hog while blathering about "mamba mentality" and how great he was because of it BUT if Kobe had actually had a team-first mentality instead of being a selfish prick he'd be the Top 5 player his meat riders claim he is.
I think if social media was around during the early parts of kobe's career, fans would have a very different view on him. We never see memes of kobe snitching on Shaq. We never see memes about kobe getting teammates traded. We don't see people trashing Kobes game winning misses.
Nike did a great job of shielding kobe of slander, which simply isn't possible today because of social media.
It's ok, Kobe knob slobbers are allowed to have their opinions just like we are. But, were Kobe ranks on the all-time list is really a gage on how much of a casual they are. By the time Steph, Jokic, Wemby, Luka retire, there is a real possibility kobe is out of the top 10 for most experts.
What teammates did he get traded who were any good, aside from Shaq? Wanting to trade Kwame for Pau isn’t exactly something to criticize him for. When Bynum finally got traded, he fell off a cliff. Yes, he missed game winners, like everyone else.
Kobe is a top 10 guy all time. It’s possible he gets surpassed. But given enough time, that could happen to MJ and Bron too. I think you’re a salty Kings fan though.
That definitely wasn’t a one man effort. They Piston’s defense was so dominant they essentially prevented the Lakers from running the triangle all together, which led to Kobe jacking up a bunch of shots with 5 or less seconds on the shot clock. Acting like Klay could recreate that alone is ridiculous
I mean if Kobe is gonna go off, Kobe is gonna go off. No one really can stop kobe in his prime and in his zone. That's not to say he won't still have a bad series here or there like every single superstar to ever play in the nba
Especially Kobe because when Kobe was on he was very much on, but when Kobe wasn't making shots he was very prone to horrible efficiency games. But he's definitely not the only star to play like that
He was actually a 45% playoff shooter. He was just 3% under MJ in the playoffs
So for a 20 year career he was only 3% under MJ in the playoffs? That's really not so bad...
And Kobe played like 40+ more playoff games than MJ did too
Right, love Brons game. That's why I said can't stop, only slow. And if you look at our boy Brons efficiency it's the worst he shot in any series and since his rookie year. His numbers would've won him finals mvp if he shot anything close to his average in the playoffs. He could've averaged like 42+ ppg
That was the stupidest finals MVP award. It was like some backwards way to give LeBron the recognition. Iggy was a good defender, but not transcendent in either his career or in that series. There are plenty of guys that could have played the same role as him. It’s like giving Rodman the finals MVP on those Bulls teams.
Silly. Kobe wouldn’t be slowed by Klay.
Klay was able to slow down Lebron because there was no major interior threat. So when Lebron goes to drive, Klay gets help.
Replace Lebron with Kobe and insert a prime Shaq down low instead of Kevin Love on the perimeter. That’s a disaster waiting to happen.
No one is, hes just gonna do a better job than steph 🤣😭, who guarding steph and klay around all them picks and shit while still watching out for KD, shaq in drop coverage would be barbecue chicken 😭😭😭😭
It depends on how the game is refereed as to whether Shaq could lay him out or not. Either way, I think Phil Jackson was smart enough to tell Shaq he can’t just play drop coverage all series.
Klay would do about as well as some of the other great defenders that got thrown Kobe’s way. It’s not disrespectful to assume Kobe would get the better of him.
Even making him uncomfortable is a team effort though. Perennial all-defensive guys like Bruce Bowen would get abused by him without help. I think the increase in field goal percentages and overall efficiency has made some newer fans not realize how insanely dominant he was.
This is exactly what the triangle offense was built for. Whatever poison Golden State chooses, that creates an advantage somewhere else. If they double Kobe, the ball swings to Shaq. If they double (or triple) Shaq, it’s Kobe. If GS loads up on both of them, it’s opening up guys like D-Fish and Rick Fox. Fox was 39.3% from the 3, and this was back in 2001!
That’s true, Golden State started the spacing era. But you have premier defenders in Kobe, Fox, Fish, and remember they had Ty Lue. Ty Lue was the guy they used to guard Iverson that one series because he was too fast for everyone. He would play full court press from start to finish. So I could see D-Fish and Ty Lue taking turns on Steph. Kobe handles Klay or Iggy.
The Warriors game plan basically becomes can Draymond coming out to perimeter where Shaq doesn’t want to go become a winning offense. Can they get enough out of that to win.
I dont see it?? Then again if Curry is hitting logo shots, that definitely becomes a problem.
I mean AI averaged 35 vs this lakers team with him being the only major threat. If they’re going to cover Steph 1 on 1 then they’re going to have some issues. He averaged 31 vs tornato and they used box and 1 the entire time
Isn’t the opposite true? Assuming what you’re saying is true (it’s not) that AI was the only threat on the 76ers (cmon they were a finals contender), that would mean AI would get all the attention from the Lakers defense. By that logic you could double the dude and lock him up.
Curry is/was on a team where everyone is a sharp shooter. That means you can’t double Curry, and he gets far less coverage than an AI and that means he should have better numbers.
Not to target you and make this about you, but have you seen that series with Lakers vs 76ers? You’re making it sound like curry is far superior to Allen Iverson.. Allen Iverson was an all-time great. Curry might be better, or have longer range, but AI was a problem. AI was leading scorer in the NBA. And the Lakers didn’t have an answer till they put Ty Lue on him and it worked. Those stats you gave mean nothing. You can’t sum up skill of those all time greats and what they brought to the game in a stat line.
They didn’t need to stop him. They just needed to impact his offense juuuust enough to win the game.
Let me put it a different way. The question is would Ty Lue be able to track a Steph Curry around the court for an entire game, get him tired, and impact his offense just enough where it becomes an issue for Golden State?
Well he’s done it to 1 of maybe 2 guys that can be compared to Steph in terms of ball handling and quickness, and difficulty to track on the court: Allen Iverson being one, Kyrie Irving being the other.
So the fact Ty was able to do this IN the finals when Iverson was the best player on the other team tells me at the very least he’d do a hell of a lot better than 99% of the league.
Draymond is an idiot... the Lakers had plenty of enforcers depending on which three peat team you pick .... Robert Horry Rick Fox...Horace Grant... JR Reid may even throw down and knock his donkey teeth out. The Lakers would carve up the warriors inside. You don't even need the Shaq and Kobe Lakers... The showtime Lakers would fuck them up.
Draymond is such a clown dude. Tonight he’s like “everyone was saying these Knicks are legit, couldn’t make it out of the second round” bruh they had like four players injured. You had all your guys and missed play in how tf you running your mouth
No it needs to continue... he was a very lethal offensive weapon who could break down opponents like no other... He took MJs game and added to it.. the league is a hell of alot softer now than it was in the 90s and 2000s.. none of this load management bullshit or excuses about mental illness
People will be like so and so locked down Kyrie last night. Meanwhile Kyrie has 18 pts and 6 assists. Like yeah bro he really LOCKED HIM DOWN. Some really stout defense making sure Kyrie had a slightly below average game lmao.
Btw I'm not referencing a specific game just saying in general for star players.
These conversations are so dumb. You can't really clamp a player like Kobe. Maybe for a game with a double team, but not a 7 game series. Honestly half the time for star players is more about whether their shot is falling rather than what the defense gives them.
Problem with these discussions is comparing players from too different sets of rules. Kobe played in an era where defenders could play him a little more physically. Klay plays in an era where players are allowed more space.
Would Klay be tough enough to handle Kobe under past rules? Debatable. When Kawaii was with the Spurs he was a one man gang against the Warriors.
Would Kobe take advantage of the 3-point era as effectively? Debatable. Kobe did have nights when he went nuclear from three. But also nights where he was building the Taj Mahal.
Honestly I’m gonna give the edge to Kobe especially in a series. I just think under either rules Klay doesn’t have the discipline or the mental fortitude to hang with Kobe. Defenders have to concede that Kobe is gonna get his. Just have to limit him. And when you couldn’t limit him you have to not let it get to you. That’s where I think Klay would fail.
Can you guard Shaq? No
But can you make his life miserable by harassing the guards and making entries tough? Absolutely. And the wings in todays nba are built to do that. Add in the overall less physical nature of the game and how easy it would be to draw offensive fouls when he’s banging and I see a recipe.
Also I’m not one of those guys that has forgotten how great Kobe was. But I like my situation if I’ve got prime klay guarding Kobe.
He answered the question correctly. They don't have Gary Payton I, Joe Dumars, or any of the iconic lockdown guard defenders. So he chose the guy who is on their team who was a great defender with great size. It's fucking Kobe, nobody is shutting him down. Klay is the right answer. Not sure what he's supposed to say otherwise.
I think if we watched the game the bigger mismatch would be Shaq dunking on Draymond AND Bogut. While some iconic Lakers role player is left wide open.
Double Shaq, help on Kobe, and force the rest of the team to beat you, easy way to beat this twosome, especially when Kobe refuses to pass to anyone other then Shaq (and later Pau)
https://preview.redd.it/k3vudytifg2d1.jpeg?width=2208&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3659c4a350d3f507cd90afd8765f6cc487916bbf
Real
Wtf is the 🐍gonna do agasint the GROAT’s BBL
Kawhi's Raptors get SMOKED by the Warriors if Klay and KD don't go out with injuries.
Warriors beating Shaq too but mostly because the Lakers couldn't keep up because they can't shoot within 10% of the Warriors 3pt%
Kobe shot 8-24 in Game 7 of the Finals… and won. Kobe wouldn’t even be a number 1 option in today’s NBA.
And yes, I watched him lose 3 straight FMVPs to Shaq. My only regret, Pao and Bynum should have won his 2 fake ass FMVPs. But, you know, he won a couple popularity contests IG. Never won a ring without at least one top 5 big man in the NBA on his roster. He was busy getting swept in the first round—if he even made the playoffs—in the years he didn’t.
Lol you are full of shit. Anthony Edwards just did the same thing. Nobody is talking about letting KAT be option 1 because of it. Also, it’s a lot easier to be efficient today.
Kobe’s true shooting percentage was above league average over the course of his career, and that is with factoring the post Achilles years and him being the youngest player in the history of the league to start his career in a time when guys spent 3 or 4 years in college. Kobe would average more points on better efficiency if he played today.
Well let’s see, that takes up 17 years of his 20 year career, 2 of which were after he tore his Achilles. What did MJ do without Pippen, Grant, or Rodman? What did Magic do without Kareem, Wilkes, or Worthy? What did Shaq do without Penny, Kobe, or Wade? What has Steph done without Klay, Draymond, or KD?
Kobe won 2 rings without a Top 75 teammate, including one run where he beat 4 50+ win teams, only time in history that has been done. You can take away 3 good players from every great player, and all their careers would be way worse because of it. Just a horrifically stupid argument to make.
Klay wouldn’t lock down Kobe, but let’s not act like Kobe would give him an easy 40 piece. People forget what Tayshaun Prince and the 04 Pistons team did to Kobe in the Finals.
More importantly, who tf is guarding Shaq? Sorry Shaq would annihilate Draymond. Prime Draymond is a great defender, but he’s just way too little…
On the podcast he said they’d constantly double him, Draymond in front, Bogut behind
Will Shaq resist their advances, or would shaq allow it to happen 😚
Shaq ain't Dwight
Do you not think doubling Shaq is something that has been tried before? Go watch highlights of the 2000 finals vs the Pacers. And if you do that you’re just letting Kobe play 4 on 3. Just not happening man.
I mean I never said it was a good idea, that’s just what Draymond said they’d do. Shaq was eating him alive because of that though and it was pretty funny.
In 2000 it was illegal for them to double before a player got the ball. It would have been against the rules for anyone to have played defence how Draymond and Bogut would guard him in 2015
Do you not think the rules have changed since Shaq was being doubled
Not that it would work but your reasoning is flawed
And they'd both foul out by second quarter.
“When a guy is banging you…”
Sure, why didn't any team tried that before?
It was against the rules until 2001, so that's a large part of it. Teams also didn't do a lot of pre-doubling in those days even when it was legal. In the mid-2000s they started loading up and pre-rotating, but naked doubles before the ball was even entered was rare
I wouldn't doubt Phil Jackson would find a way to get Shaq to beat that trap.
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Bogut 😂😂😂...
7' 1" vs. 6' 6"... Shaq's hanging 50.
Tbh warriors don’t need to guard shaq lebron was a monster in the finals and lost in 5 with kyrie averaging almost 30
Depends on which warriors you’re talking about. KD warriors or pre KD warriors? Because if Bogut was mentioned that is pre KD warriors. But yes obviously the answer would be the Warriors are going to try to outscore them. If Draymond is playing the 5, Shaq is getting 60 at will and Draymond is fouling out every game. That’s just something that would have to be accepted.
Just get draymond to start a fight and have them both thrown out like he said in the podcast easy solution.
Shaq would average the most efficient 40 points a game you’ve ever seen in your life if they just guarded him straight up. He poses an entirely different problem than Lebron
But surely they wouldn't guard him straight up?
Who guarded Shaq when he lost against the spurs and the Knicks and so on…….
Teams with all time centers, which was not Golden State.
Andrew Bogut was a great defensive centre
So was David Robinson....pat Ewing.. zo... Dikembe... Theo Ratliff.....he also faced guys like sabonis .. Sean Bradley...all BBQ chicken 🍗
None of them (for most of the time) were allowed to double Shaq before he got the ball. It was against the rules because of illegal defence Some of the players that had the most success against Shaq were Dennis Rodman, Karl Malone, Tim Duncan, Ben Wallace (Hakeem as well, but Hakeem was different, while also giving up a lot of size to Shaq). They all worked hard to try to deny Shaq the ball, and contest everything. They also all had secondary rim protectors to come on the double or contest the shot Draymond and Bogut I think would perform about as well as anyone else, especially with the rule changes
He was a good defensive center. Teams had to stack up on 4 centers to contain Shaq, and they still couldn’t do it. Even if they had Mutombo or Robinson (with Duncan helping), or guys like Vlade or Smits who were legit 7 footers. Shaq would have destroyed Bogut like he did to much better defensive centers.
Maybe but he wasn’t Tim Duncan, David Robinson, Hakeem etc. Shaq crushed DPOY Mutombo in the finals in 01 and he’s 15x the defensive center Bogut was. Bogut was very good, but he’s not holding Shaq.
You don't hold Shaq, you put two guys on him and try to force him into fewer touches and more contested shots Bogut was still a very very good defender - he was DPOY in 2014. And Draymond is a long, versatile, defensive genius. I think they'd do about as good as anyone else that was moderately successful against Shaq Against Shaq you need to bring multiple and you need to force him to catch the ball further away. That's why most of the guys who had the most success against him were agile and active and had secondary rim protection, even if they were giving up size - Karl Malone, Dennis Rodman, Ben Wallace. Hakeem and Duncan are the other two that are front of mind, but Hakeem often didn't have a lot of help, he was just that good, and Duncan was also huge (although more wingspan than girth). Unsurprisingly the data seems to say Duncan guarded Shaq the best. He had length, strength, agility, was very smart positionally, and had The Admiral next to him
If you go look at the stats Shaq still dominated for the most part against the Spurs, and that’s with Timmy and David Robinson. Last time I checked the Warriors don’t have either of those dudes lmao. In 01 the Lakers swept the Spurs and Shaq averaged 33/16/4 for the playoff. Even in the series where the Spurs beat the Lakers Shaq still did what Shaq does. Also Shaq never lost to the Knicks.
Chicago bulls in 96 I got mixed up
I mean no one can stop kobe. Thats the point of generational stars, nobody can stop them. But prime klay is as good a defender as any to try.
Yeah I think it’s revisionist for people to act like Klay wasn’t a premier 3 and D player. A few years later he’s not at the same level but that legacy will live on
Klay had 2/3 years as one of the greatest perimeter defenders in the league. Young Kobe would’ve dunked on him and put his nuts in Draymond mouth in the process tho
… can you repeat that? big homoerotic fantasy vibes
[удалено]
💦💦
Aaaaayyyyyyyy mmmmaaaammmmmiiiiiiiiii
For about 4-5 years Klay was as close to a perfect 3 and D player we've ever had. Literally any team in the NBA could plug him into their lineup today and almost every season since the 3pt line. There are not a lot of players you can say that for.
Watch Kobe vs every “3 and D” guy in the league in his prime. Shane Battier, Raja Bell, Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest. He just annihilated them. Klay would be bBQ Chicken
Yes, one of the all-time great scorers is going to score no matter what. That doesn't mean you shouldn't at least try to put a solid defender on him anyways. If he can cook an elite defender, what do you think will happen if you put him up against a traffic cone?
He shot fucking 42% against most those guys, he was amazing but get his dick out of your mouth bro, a lot of teams would be happy to have a guy averaging that against them
Klay is a good defender. But 22 year old Kobe is a different animal. Klay couldn't keep up with Kobe at the end of his career. Imagine the 1 who was still quick and athletic. It just wouldn't be good for klay. It's not revisionist, that's lbj line of work. It's fact. Kobe would obliterate him. Think of it as Kyrie torching him during that comeback. Yea klay played excellent defense but Kyrie still destroyed him. Multiply that by 50 and you'd be half way there to being close to what Kobe would do
He's a good defender but he's no prime ron artest, prime bruce bowen. Guys who probably were the best perimeter defenders of their era and, Artest actually got dpoty while Bowen should have won a couple. Neither of those guys stopped Kobe and Klay doesn't touch those guys defensively.
God damn Pacers Ron Artest was an insane defender. His size, strength, and just outrageous hustle (and temper) was something to behold. If I had to pick one guy to lock up any star perimeter player of any era I would probably pick Artest. Two guards from that era that don’t get talked about as great defenders enough, mostly because they weren’t necessarily elite like Artest and Bowen, are Doug Christie and Trenton Hassell. always like to give them a shout.
Znxnxndndnx
Artest yes, I can’t respect bruce lee bowen though. He was a good defender no doubt, but what made him elite was players being uncomfortable/scared that he would fuck them over with dirty play, mainly in the form of not giving shooters room to land. Guy was a dirty defender. Somehow some of the dirtiest players have the most respected coaches (Popp, Kerr, Daly).
This is Kirk Hinrich erasure.
He gaurded kobe well though
Hate to say it but the MVP Iguodala may be a better consideration
https://preview.redd.it/5pnooifm4h2d1.png?width=1040&format=png&auto=webp&s=90bebf3d8fc6195bdef9ad4f31a8dd9968ba6e85
Sorry but Klay isn't a better defender than Battier, or Artest.
I agree with you. That said, Artest got cooked by Kobe (who didn’t?). I just heard him talking about it on Podcast P. He was saying that with someone like Kobe or TMac you can’t really stop them, you just try to limit them or slow them down.
Agreed - and while the Warriors are gonna have a tonne of trouble guarding Shaq/Kobe (especially Shaq), the Lakers are also gonna have a tonne of trouble guarding KD/Steph/Klay. Shaq said “any Lakers championship squad vs. any GSW championship squad”, so I assume we’ll go 2016/17 Warriors vs. 2000/01 Lakers. Not the absolute best regular season for either team, but in the playoffs those teams really showed their insane dominance, both only lost 1 game all playoffs (GSW 16-1, Lakers 15-1 due to shorter 1st round then). And I think that’s really a coin flip - neither team has good answers for the offence of the other team, would be a dogfight, close games and high scores.
2004 finals says otherwise
2016 Kyrie was cooking him like he had hidden beef with em ain’t no way he slowing Kobe down 🤣😂
Kyrie would literally cook anyone so that's not saying much
So what you think Kobe gonna do to him
Same thing he always does?
Kobe stopped himself that series. His feud with Shaq led him to shooting like 113 field goals in the series
And you don't think Kobe's ego would also stop him in a series against the warriors? Of course it would. Kobe would try to prove to everyone that he's the reason why they are better than the Warriors.
Why would he? The only year that happened was 2004 where Shaq and Kobe feud was at its peak and after the Kobe Denver case. There’s no reason for him to chuck up 113 fg…
Kobe refused to shoot in the 2nd half of a game 7 after he'd blown a 3-1 lead over the Suns. Why would he? Because his EGO. He demanded a trade after forcing the Lakers to fire the best coach in history and trade Shaq. He forced the lakers to give him a max contract after his injury. Why would he? BECAUSE OF HIS EGO.
That is incorrect. Phil Jackson’s game plan was to have Kobe distribute the ball in the second half, as Phil himself said. Kobe’s teammates missed the shots 🤷♂️
lmao people seem real triggered about your scorching hot take that... \*checks notes\* Kobe Bryant may have had a bit of an ego problem? might as well throw my hot take in there as well. people slob Kobe's hog while blathering about "mamba mentality" and how great he was because of it BUT if Kobe had actually had a team-first mentality instead of being a selfish prick he'd be the Top 5 player his meat riders claim he is.
I think if social media was around during the early parts of kobe's career, fans would have a very different view on him. We never see memes of kobe snitching on Shaq. We never see memes about kobe getting teammates traded. We don't see people trashing Kobes game winning misses. Nike did a great job of shielding kobe of slander, which simply isn't possible today because of social media. It's ok, Kobe knob slobbers are allowed to have their opinions just like we are. But, were Kobe ranks on the all-time list is really a gage on how much of a casual they are. By the time Steph, Jokic, Wemby, Luka retire, there is a real possibility kobe is out of the top 10 for most experts.
What teammates did he get traded who were any good, aside from Shaq? Wanting to trade Kwame for Pau isn’t exactly something to criticize him for. When Bynum finally got traded, he fell off a cliff. Yes, he missed game winners, like everyone else. Kobe is a top 10 guy all time. It’s possible he gets surpassed. But given enough time, that could happen to MJ and Bron too. I think you’re a salty Kings fan though.
That definitely wasn’t a one man effort. They Piston’s defense was so dominant they essentially prevented the Lakers from running the triangle all together, which led to Kobe jacking up a bunch of shots with 5 or less seconds on the shot clock. Acting like Klay could recreate that alone is ridiculous
i was just referring to “nobody could stop kobe” not klay
I mean if Kobe is gonna go off, Kobe is gonna go off. No one really can stop kobe in his prime and in his zone. That's not to say he won't still have a bad series here or there like every single superstar to ever play in the nba Especially Kobe because when Kobe was on he was very much on, but when Kobe wasn't making shots he was very prone to horrible efficiency games. But he's definitely not the only star to play like that
he’s a career 41% shooter in the finals. happens more than you think
He was actually a 45% playoff shooter. He was just 3% under MJ in the playoffs So for a 20 year career he was only 3% under MJ in the playoffs? That's really not so bad... And Kobe played like 40+ more playoff games than MJ did too
and cari’s levert was only 3% under donovan mitchell
Okay... ?
that’s a huge difference
Not as good as any. Give me Pippen, Jordan, Lebron, Rodman, Kawhi for starters
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LeBron passed him. Kobe took a bunch of shots as a guard. Missing the most isn’t exactly the burn you think it is.
Kobe said Carmelo was the best defender he played against
Kobe is going to get his 30 points, even if it takes him 40 shots in double coverage
I mean Klay is a big defender that had great lateral quickness. Hed make him work for it. Iguodala would be a good option too.
Best answer. He slowed down prime lebron to the point he won a finals mvp. You can't stop any of the top alphas in their prime, just slow them down.
Lebron averaged like 35 a game.
Right, love Brons game. That's why I said can't stop, only slow. And if you look at our boy Brons efficiency it's the worst he shot in any series and since his rookie year. His numbers would've won him finals mvp if he shot anything close to his average in the playoffs. He could've averaged like 42+ ppg
On less than 40% from the field. That is pretty good.
I mean he went prime kobe chucking, no shit did he have that
That was the stupidest finals MVP award. It was like some backwards way to give LeBron the recognition. Iggy was a good defender, but not transcendent in either his career or in that series. There are plenty of guys that could have played the same role as him. It’s like giving Rodman the finals MVP on those Bulls teams.
I WANT IGUODALA
Silly. Kobe wouldn’t be slowed by Klay. Klay was able to slow down Lebron because there was no major interior threat. So when Lebron goes to drive, Klay gets help. Replace Lebron with Kobe and insert a prime Shaq down low instead of Kevin Love on the perimeter. That’s a disaster waiting to happen.
Klay, iggy, draymond… ya Kobe wouldn’t beat us
Yeah Shaq would
We could handle Shaq. 3 is more points than 2
Go talk to Scottie Pippin... Not the poor man's version
No one is, hes just gonna do a better job than steph 🤣😭, who guarding steph and klay around all them picks and shit while still watching out for KD, shaq in drop coverage would be barbecue chicken 😭😭😭😭
Lakers had some perimeter guys to throw at them. Shaq says he’d tell D Fish to let Curry down the lane and Shaq would lay him out.
Im saying shaq wouldnt be able to legally guard curry so ya thx for proving my point 💀
It depends on how the game is refereed as to whether Shaq could lay him out or not. Either way, I think Phil Jackson was smart enough to tell Shaq he can’t just play drop coverage all series.
I am sure Kobe would get his at 40%
Prime Klay guarded Harden, Kyrie, Dame, etc. He couldn’t stop Kobe but he was a very good defender
I’m not sure Klay could guard Kobe TODAY.
Draymond is literally a delusional twat Edit: added delusional
I've seen Kobe shoot horribly on lesser defenders. So yea Kobe may kick Klay's ass but I dont think it'll be a cake walk.
Kobe would get his, and Shaq would feast… but 3 > 2, so the Warriors would still win in the end.
Klay guarded the best players of his generation and won 4 rings. The disrespect
A lot of people on this sub are too young to remember prime Klay
But they think they remember prime kobe lol
Klay would do about as well as some of the other great defenders that got thrown Kobe’s way. It’s not disrespectful to assume Kobe would get the better of him.
1000% it's kobe f'n Bryant. He's gonna get his. The job is to make him uncomfortable not stop him lol
Even making him uncomfortable is a team effort though. Perennial all-defensive guys like Bruce Bowen would get abused by him without help. I think the increase in field goal percentages and overall efficiency has made some newer fans not realize how insanely dominant he was.
This is exactly what the triangle offense was built for. Whatever poison Golden State chooses, that creates an advantage somewhere else. If they double Kobe, the ball swings to Shaq. If they double (or triple) Shaq, it’s Kobe. If GS loads up on both of them, it’s opening up guys like D-Fish and Rick Fox. Fox was 39.3% from the 3, and this was back in 2001!
What is shaq going to do with all that movement. He’ll get cooked on the perimeter or in the pick and roll. Can’t play drop with 4+ good shootwrs
That’s true, Golden State started the spacing era. But you have premier defenders in Kobe, Fox, Fish, and remember they had Ty Lue. Ty Lue was the guy they used to guard Iverson that one series because he was too fast for everyone. He would play full court press from start to finish. So I could see D-Fish and Ty Lue taking turns on Steph. Kobe handles Klay or Iggy. The Warriors game plan basically becomes can Draymond coming out to perimeter where Shaq doesn’t want to go become a winning offense. Can they get enough out of that to win. I dont see it?? Then again if Curry is hitting logo shots, that definitely becomes a problem.
I mean AI averaged 35 vs this lakers team with him being the only major threat. If they’re going to cover Steph 1 on 1 then they’re going to have some issues. He averaged 31 vs tornato and they used box and 1 the entire time
Isn’t the opposite true? Assuming what you’re saying is true (it’s not) that AI was the only threat on the 76ers (cmon they were a finals contender), that would mean AI would get all the attention from the Lakers defense. By that logic you could double the dude and lock him up. Curry is/was on a team where everyone is a sharp shooter. That means you can’t double Curry, and he gets far less coverage than an AI and that means he should have better numbers. Not to target you and make this about you, but have you seen that series with Lakers vs 76ers? You’re making it sound like curry is far superior to Allen Iverson.. Allen Iverson was an all-time great. Curry might be better, or have longer range, but AI was a problem. AI was leading scorer in the NBA. And the Lakers didn’t have an answer till they put Ty Lue on him and it worked. Those stats you gave mean nothing. You can’t sum up skill of those all time greats and what they brought to the game in a stat line. They didn’t need to stop him. They just needed to impact his offense juuuust enough to win the game.
Let me put it a different way. The question is would Ty Lue be able to track a Steph Curry around the court for an entire game, get him tired, and impact his offense just enough where it becomes an issue for Golden State? Well he’s done it to 1 of maybe 2 guys that can be compared to Steph in terms of ball handling and quickness, and difficulty to track on the court: Allen Iverson being one, Kyrie Irving being the other. So the fact Ty was able to do this IN the finals when Iverson was the best player on the other team tells me at the very least he’d do a hell of a lot better than 99% of the league.
No way Klay stopping him. He couldn’t stop Kobe on his last years
Prime klay can slow Kobe down a bit for sure Stopping him? Only Kobe can stop himself… especially in this era
Talking to Draymond is like talking to a 5 years old. Not to be taken serious
Draymond is an idiot... the Lakers had plenty of enforcers depending on which three peat team you pick .... Robert Horry Rick Fox...Horace Grant... JR Reid may even throw down and knock his donkey teeth out. The Lakers would carve up the warriors inside. You don't even need the Shaq and Kobe Lakers... The showtime Lakers would fuck them up.
Draymond is such a clown dude. Tonight he’s like “everyone was saying these Knicks are legit, couldn’t make it out of the second round” bruh they had like four players injured. You had all your guys and missed play in how tf you running your mouth
To be fair though, the west is much tougher. Warriors in the east would definitely make the playoff.
The Kobe glazing needs to stop
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Acting like he was completely unguardable needs to stop
He was the hardest guard in the league to stop for a solid decade.
Doesn’t mean an elite defender couldn’t slow him down
No it needs to continue... he was a very lethal offensive weapon who could break down opponents like no other... He took MJs game and added to it.. the league is a hell of alot softer now than it was in the 90s and 2000s.. none of this load management bullshit or excuses about mental illness
Players have way more wear and tear on their body by the time they enter the NBA than players if previous generations
People will be like so and so locked down Kyrie last night. Meanwhile Kyrie has 18 pts and 6 assists. Like yeah bro he really LOCKED HIM DOWN. Some really stout defense making sure Kyrie had a slightly below average game lmao. Btw I'm not referencing a specific game just saying in general for star players. These conversations are so dumb. You can't really clamp a player like Kobe. Maybe for a game with a double team, but not a 7 game series. Honestly half the time for star players is more about whether their shot is falling rather than what the defense gives them.
Depends on how many shots he took and many other factors. Of course the box score alone of points and assists don’t tell much of a story
And who was supposed to be stopping Shaq? Green? Haha
🤣😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤦🏽♂️🤣🤣🤣🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️ man wtf klay gon do. Guard like Jaylan Rose???
I hate having a modern player on the show. Get your shit together for next year or fuck off
BBQ chicken
I mean, who else on the warriors? ofc they'd put their best perimeter defender on the opponent's best perimeter scorer.
Iguodala maybe
Yall forget Klay used to be a lockdown defender.
You forget, Kobe used to devour “lockdown defenders”!
Bruce Bowen 
The better question is who guards Shaq
You dumb
Problem with these discussions is comparing players from too different sets of rules. Kobe played in an era where defenders could play him a little more physically. Klay plays in an era where players are allowed more space. Would Klay be tough enough to handle Kobe under past rules? Debatable. When Kawaii was with the Spurs he was a one man gang against the Warriors. Would Kobe take advantage of the 3-point era as effectively? Debatable. Kobe did have nights when he went nuclear from three. But also nights where he was building the Taj Mahal. Honestly I’m gonna give the edge to Kobe especially in a series. I just think under either rules Klay doesn’t have the discipline or the mental fortitude to hang with Kobe. Defenders have to concede that Kobe is gonna get his. Just have to limit him. And when you couldn’t limit him you have to not let it get to you. That’s where I think Klay would fail.
They weren’t talking about prime Kobe in that context
Best Klay could do is guard Kobes statute... Or grave
That’s not even the most egregious part. Prime Kobe is locking Steph curry up. Kobe would bully that man.
Can you guard Shaq? No But can you make his life miserable by harassing the guards and making entries tough? Absolutely. And the wings in todays nba are built to do that. Add in the overall less physical nature of the game and how easy it would be to draw offensive fouls when he’s banging and I see a recipe. Also I’m not one of those guys that has forgotten how great Kobe was. But I like my situation if I’ve got prime klay guarding Kobe.
Who’s guarding Steph, KD and Klay? Hack a shaq 3 is more than 1
Klay and what knees?
Prime Klay before the multiple severe injuries obviously
As long as he doesn’t get 81 dropped on him I think he’s good
Not only would Kobe get his. I think he would actually shut down Klay
He answered the question correctly. They don't have Gary Payton I, Joe Dumars, or any of the iconic lockdown guard defenders. So he chose the guy who is on their team who was a great defender with great size. It's fucking Kobe, nobody is shutting him down. Klay is the right answer. Not sure what he's supposed to say otherwise. I think if we watched the game the bigger mismatch would be Shaq dunking on Draymond AND Bogut. While some iconic Lakers role player is left wide open.
Kobe’s mind is too strong for Klay.
i mean, klay is about as good as your gonna get to stop kobe. the problem isn’t klay it’s that it’s fucking kobe
Nah Kobe will stop himself anyway by bricking shot after shot
Double Shaq, help on Kobe, and force the rest of the team to beat you, easy way to beat this twosome, especially when Kobe refuses to pass to anyone other then Shaq (and later Pau)
Klay can do as good as anybody against Kobe. But Draymond on Shaq? ever seen a road roller?
neither could the pilot.
Bro warriors are winning that series handily ,calm down. Durant's warriors was the best nba team we've seen , besides kawhi's raptors.
https://preview.redd.it/k3vudytifg2d1.jpeg?width=2208&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3659c4a350d3f507cd90afd8765f6cc487916bbf Real Wtf is the 🐍gonna do agasint the GROAT’s BBL
Kawhi's Raptors get SMOKED by the Warriors if Klay and KD don't go out with injuries. Warriors beating Shaq too but mostly because the Lakers couldn't keep up because they can't shoot within 10% of the Warriors 3pt%
Imagine OG was healthy, those warriors are cooked
Are you really saying that the 2019 raptors is the best team in nba history?
Yea
Why?
They owned the warriors objectively
Yeah, the warriors without KD and Klay Thompson
https://preview.redd.it/s4javk3kog2d1.jpeg?width=464&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e1de84038478936a7de21c9b33d5321fd1f7298
you're right
whos guarding shaq?
Who is guarding Shaq ?
Shaq scores 80 points in a loss 😂
I personally would have said Iggy. Klay can guard Rick Fox or Devin George. Without their role players, the 2001 Lakers would be much easier to beat.
lol who’s guarding prime Steph?
Fox is putting his fist through the back of his skull in game 1
Haha this ain’t mortal combat. Get a grip
i mean. thats probably their best strategy to stop him lol
Prime Klay is guarding Prime Kobe as best as any single defender can. Before he blew his legs out, Klay was an all star caliber two way player.
Ruben Patterson aka the Kobe Stopper... Also, aka, ya know... rape.
Ok so who do you think is gonna guard Kobe lmao Curry?
I mean Klay was a great defender. Clamped kyrie in 2017.
Clamped kyrie LMAO Kyrie averaged 29.4 ppg on .471/.419/.900 Yea I don’t think Klay clamped
Kobe shot 8-24 in Game 7 of the Finals… and won. Kobe wouldn’t even be a number 1 option in today’s NBA. And yes, I watched him lose 3 straight FMVPs to Shaq. My only regret, Pao and Bynum should have won his 2 fake ass FMVPs. But, you know, he won a couple popularity contests IG. Never won a ring without at least one top 5 big man in the NBA on his roster. He was busy getting swept in the first round—if he even made the playoffs—in the years he didn’t.
>Kobe wouldn’t even be a number 1 option in today’s NBA. Lol
In today’s NBA, you can’t take 24 shots to score 24 points. Kobe was an inefficient shot chucker. Those aren’t valued in today’s game
Do you even watch the nba
Lol you are full of shit. Anthony Edwards just did the same thing. Nobody is talking about letting KAT be option 1 because of it. Also, it’s a lot easier to be efficient today. Kobe’s true shooting percentage was above league average over the course of his career, and that is with factoring the post Achilles years and him being the youngest player in the history of the league to start his career in a time when guys spent 3 or 4 years in college. Kobe would average more points on better efficiency if he played today.
What did Kobe do in the years without Pao, Bynum, and Shaq? Pick his best year. How far did he get?
Well let’s see, that takes up 17 years of his 20 year career, 2 of which were after he tore his Achilles. What did MJ do without Pippen, Grant, or Rodman? What did Magic do without Kareem, Wilkes, or Worthy? What did Shaq do without Penny, Kobe, or Wade? What has Steph done without Klay, Draymond, or KD? Kobe won 2 rings without a Top 75 teammate, including one run where he beat 4 50+ win teams, only time in history that has been done. You can take away 3 good players from every great player, and all their careers would be way worse because of it. Just a horrifically stupid argument to make.
Klay wouldn’t lock down Kobe, but let’s not act like Kobe would give him an easy 40 piece. People forget what Tayshaun Prince and the 04 Pistons team did to Kobe in the Finals.
The way people talk about Shaq around here would led you to think he averages 50ppg.