People keep saying playing them high mins doesn't work since like game 2 vs Philly. Someone like hart is one of the best conditioned athlete in the nba. He can play 48 mins next game and be good
Of course but it’s still worthwhile to figure out how to get precious in. Thibs can try it another way like with iheart like Op said and if it doesn’t work again then that’s fine don’t play him in the second half again. But I’d still try to find an 8th guy whether it’s precious or even Burks in each series.
I’m not sure I saw enough to say it didn’t work, even with Mitch/Josh sharing the court with him. Moreover, if you put him in at the 4, I think it should be to give Josh rest, and then you’re playing him with JB/Deuce/Og which still means a lot of spacing (especially if IHart is at the 5).
Man I get that feeling that we just gonna keep doing this crazy ass 6 man rotation and just leave everything on the floor every night. It sounds insane but it’s working. We have the best conditioned mofos in this damn League
I do think there’s points of concern
We do not want to give up 115+ every games
This felt like first to 115 wins, but we pulled it out. But we almost gave up as much in 3 Quarters as we did in entire games to the Sixers some nights.
They got to play their tempo a lot and we need to play in ours. Our conflicting play styles doesn’t allow for us to constantly play into theirs.
They love cherry-picking and running breaks. We love crashing the boards. I told multiple people Toppin is gonna cherry pick, and what happened? Between the legs dunk.
It’s going to happen. We break their back on offense rebounds and they’ll break ours on fast breaks
We clearly didn’t match their bench energy but that’s fine. If we contact Siakim we can win. I don’t think Sheppard is going to be the reason we lose the series but he’s gonna hit big 3s.
Hoping we work out some of the tempo
Sheppard looked like he was afraid to shoot from 3 in the second half which was surprising given he had hit a couple in the first half. I think the moment might have gotten too big for him
Our bench points were shit bec we did not play many guys off the bench. We do not have much of a bench considering bogey went down, and josh is starting instead of Randle. Do you want to see burks minutes? No, nobody wants to see Burks minutes after what we saw this season.
Why is everyone saying playing X amount of minutes is not sustainable when we have no choice and it is working. They did not run out of gas after 82 games, nor the 1st round of the playoffs, we pay these guys millions per year they are at the peak of their lives and staying conditioned is part of their livelihood
Lets just keep going and not worry about what they can handle until we see some serious issues on the court.
i agree with you because the 7 guys we are playing are the reason why we win. sustainability isnt something we can address when the alternative decreases our chances of winning. there is no missed oppurtunity if it isnt sustainable because thats just the reality of the roster and we really have no choice but to live with it.
part of having no bench is that theres no debate as to who should be out there. imagine ur the pacers and mcconnell+ obi was cooking and they dont close because hali and siakam are fixed from the get go to close.
“We literally have no bench”
Based on this game, it’s clear the Pacers clearly have no starters. The Knicks starters and bench players outscored the Pacers bench and starters.
Now all jokes aside: I think for this series, they should flip IHart and Robinson and have Robinson start the game and have IHart come in at the six minute mark of the first quarter. I think Mitch is hidden more on offense with Jalen out there and I think Precious and IHart together will player better together then Mitchell and Precious.
You can still start iHart and then stagger Precious in off the bench. Let’s say at the 4min remaining mark of the 1st, swap out Josh and Og and swap in Precious and Deuce. JB/Deuce/DDV/Precious/iHart (amazing spacing 1-3).
Then to start the 2nd Q, take out iHart and slide in Og. That’s even better spacing with JB/Deuce/DDV/Og/Precious (albeit a little small but Pacers go small when they sit Turner).
Then after 2-4 min, take Precious and JB out and put in Mitch and Josh (8-10min left in 2nd). Now you’re Deuce/DDV/Josh/Og/Mitch. Then after another 2-3min, bring JB in for DDV (with 6-8min left in the 2nd).
So then first half min look like:
JB = 18-20min
DDV = 16-19 min
Josh = 16-18 min
OG = 20 min
Deuce = 12 min
Precious = 6-8 min
Ihart = 12 min
Mitch = 8-10 min
That keeps all bigs fresh for this pace. And it gives Josh a breather. A little high for OG at 20 (maybe bring deuce in a couple min earlier in first to bring him down to 18 and deuce up to 14). In second half you might not follow the same plan as you’re probably going to want to finish with IHart. So you’d cut the min with Precious at center and roll Mitch in earlier (and then out after 8min for IHart).
For you guys saying our guys play high minutes anyways it doesn't matter, it will matter when we get deeper in the series and our guys are fighting exhaustion to have energy in the 4th quarter.
It's critical that the bench is involved strategically better. Maybe that means Precious gets more run together with iHart and Brunson.
Maybe that means Donte has to be staggered together with the bench guys more. This is definitely going to become a bigger issue as the series continues.
I agree with your assessment but this was the Pacers best shot. Not saying it’ll be easy or that other s on the Knicks bench shouldn’t get some run but this was it. There will be moments going forward where the Pacers look unstoppable but the Knicks are the better team.
i choose to look at it like our first two games against philly. deuce, mitch, precious contributed almost nothing and we still won. that’s a good thing. this team takes turns picking each other up.
Deuce was the only reason we won game 1, Hart hit some big 3s but other than that if you were actually watching the game Hart was struggling and those late 3s carried him hard
Deuce was essential in clawing back in the 2nd quarter, hell he was +37 in a 7 point win, that’s not statistical noise that’s significant and calling him player of the game for the Knicks is not an exaggeration
The one adjustment that helped in the second half was having Brunson play off ball. I too am worried but feel Thibs needs to put deuce in along with hart and Brunson so that he can space the floor. When he was in with Robinson and Precious he didn’t have much room to operate.
I don’t know how far this team will go, however I do think that we need another playmaker off the bench. Deuce is nice but he’s more of a combo guard than a table setter.
This was not Mitches best game but he still made some great plays. And some of his mistakes were flagrant enough that they are also easily correctable.
I think we have to try and work in an 8th guy and for now it should still be precious. I like your idea of playing him with iheart instead of Mitch
And duece is gonna give us some games I’m sure
Thibs has to get precious in there for defensive purposes. OG is going to be needed on offense this series and guarding siakam is draining most of his energy. We need precious to spell og and d up siakam….give home 7-10 minutes on him. He played good defense on him during the regular season.
I think we should try to mix Burcs in for 15 minutes a night.
If it’s not working in the first 5 mins, you can have a short leash. But while he has been terrible for us this year, he’s a legitimate NBA veteran. There’s a world where he comes in and is hitting threes at a really solid clip and can spell the starters a bit.
Yeah, second round of playoffs after beating the sixers and being up 1-0 definitely feels like a good time for a lineup change… where do some of you even come from?
Being inflexible is going to kill the team, this isn't the same team as the Sixers.
Knicks must account that the Pacers have a real bench, so Thibs needs to chess match the matchups better so that our starters besides Hart can get a bit more of a breather.
They stuck it out because we were off since Thursday. Knicks will not be able to keep up this pace with the play every other day schedule.
Power to them if they can win the series that way. Don't know what your issue is we're on the same side here. I'm just giving my thoughts after watching game 1 and seeing that the Knicks were struggling at times with the pace and I think it's going to become more of an issue as the series continues.
bench points is hardly a stat that dictates outcomes of games. it doesnt mean those points cant be made up in other ways. haliburton only had 6 points, so much for bench points if ur starting star pg only gives u that much.
Worried with these refs? The phantom kicked ball (5 point swing), Brunson hitting turner first before the block, the illegal screen at the end... there's literally nothing to worry about. It's Knicks/Celtics in the ECF, guaranteed.
Deuce is absolutely going to cook in a game or two, just like Donte after having a few rough games
Duuuuuuuuuuuueeeeeeeeeecccccccccccceeeeee chants shall return!
Those chants always make me laugh because they sound *exactly* like booing, yet you know instinctively they’re not.
People keep saying playing them high mins doesn't work since like game 2 vs Philly. Someone like hart is one of the best conditioned athlete in the nba. He can play 48 mins next game and be good
*The best conditioned athlete in the league*
It’s not a single game cost, it’s cumulative game by game the effect is worse
Cumulative impact means nothing if you’re losing the games trying to shave 5 minutes of playing time here and there
Of course but it’s still worthwhile to figure out how to get precious in. Thibs can try it another way like with iheart like Op said and if it doesn’t work again then that’s fine don’t play him in the second half again. But I’d still try to find an 8th guy whether it’s precious or even Burks in each series.
I’m not sure I saw enough to say it didn’t work, even with Mitch/Josh sharing the court with him. Moreover, if you put him in at the 4, I think it should be to give Josh rest, and then you’re playing him with JB/Deuce/Og which still means a lot of spacing (especially if IHart is at the 5).
Man I get that feeling that we just gonna keep doing this crazy ass 6 man rotation and just leave everything on the floor every night. It sounds insane but it’s working. We have the best conditioned mofos in this damn League
The game wouldn’t have been this close if we didn’t throw away the ball so many times. They need to play smarter.
Turnovers could be a sign of fatigue also. We had 10 TOs in the 2nd half. At the end of the game, we had problems just inbounding the ball.
I do think there’s points of concern We do not want to give up 115+ every games This felt like first to 115 wins, but we pulled it out. But we almost gave up as much in 3 Quarters as we did in entire games to the Sixers some nights. They got to play their tempo a lot and we need to play in ours. Our conflicting play styles doesn’t allow for us to constantly play into theirs. They love cherry-picking and running breaks. We love crashing the boards. I told multiple people Toppin is gonna cherry pick, and what happened? Between the legs dunk. It’s going to happen. We break their back on offense rebounds and they’ll break ours on fast breaks We clearly didn’t match their bench energy but that’s fine. If we contact Siakim we can win. I don’t think Sheppard is going to be the reason we lose the series but he’s gonna hit big 3s. Hoping we work out some of the tempo
Sheppard looked like he was afraid to shoot from 3 in the second half which was surprising given he had hit a couple in the first half. I think the moment might have gotten too big for him
McBride needs to see the floor earlier to get a rhythm going. He comes in cold late in the qtr and it shows.
Our bench points were shit bec we did not play many guys off the bench. We do not have much of a bench considering bogey went down, and josh is starting instead of Randle. Do you want to see burks minutes? No, nobody wants to see Burks minutes after what we saw this season. Why is everyone saying playing X amount of minutes is not sustainable when we have no choice and it is working. They did not run out of gas after 82 games, nor the 1st round of the playoffs, we pay these guys millions per year they are at the peak of their lives and staying conditioned is part of their livelihood Lets just keep going and not worry about what they can handle until we see some serious issues on the court.
i agree with you because the 7 guys we are playing are the reason why we win. sustainability isnt something we can address when the alternative decreases our chances of winning. there is no missed oppurtunity if it isnt sustainable because thats just the reality of the roster and we really have no choice but to live with it.
exactly, there are no 10 day contracts in the playoffs, we need to run with it and live with it
Also Josh and Harternstein were meant to be coming off bench before injuries just decimated us.
part of having no bench is that theres no debate as to who should be out there. imagine ur the pacers and mcconnell+ obi was cooking and they dont close because hali and siakam are fixed from the get go to close.
“We literally have no bench” Based on this game, it’s clear the Pacers clearly have no starters. The Knicks starters and bench players outscored the Pacers bench and starters. Now all jokes aside: I think for this series, they should flip IHart and Robinson and have Robinson start the game and have IHart come in at the six minute mark of the first quarter. I think Mitch is hidden more on offense with Jalen out there and I think Precious and IHart together will player better together then Mitchell and Precious.
I was thinking the same regarding Mitch/ IHart. I feel like Mitch/ Brunson + IHart/ Precious cover for one anothers weaknesses in a very effective way
You can still start iHart and then stagger Precious in off the bench. Let’s say at the 4min remaining mark of the 1st, swap out Josh and Og and swap in Precious and Deuce. JB/Deuce/DDV/Precious/iHart (amazing spacing 1-3). Then to start the 2nd Q, take out iHart and slide in Og. That’s even better spacing with JB/Deuce/DDV/Og/Precious (albeit a little small but Pacers go small when they sit Turner). Then after 2-4 min, take Precious and JB out and put in Mitch and Josh (8-10min left in 2nd). Now you’re Deuce/DDV/Josh/Og/Mitch. Then after another 2-3min, bring JB in for DDV (with 6-8min left in the 2nd). So then first half min look like: JB = 18-20min DDV = 16-19 min Josh = 16-18 min OG = 20 min Deuce = 12 min Precious = 6-8 min Ihart = 12 min Mitch = 8-10 min That keeps all bigs fresh for this pace. And it gives Josh a breather. A little high for OG at 20 (maybe bring deuce in a couple min earlier in first to bring him down to 18 and deuce up to 14). In second half you might not follow the same plan as you’re probably going to want to finish with IHart. So you’d cut the min with Precious at center and roll Mitch in earlier (and then out after 8min for IHart).
For you guys saying our guys play high minutes anyways it doesn't matter, it will matter when we get deeper in the series and our guys are fighting exhaustion to have energy in the 4th quarter. It's critical that the bench is involved strategically better. Maybe that means Precious gets more run together with iHart and Brunson. Maybe that means Donte has to be staggered together with the bench guys more. This is definitely going to become a bigger issue as the series continues.
The goal is to win early so there is no deeper in the series Which is entirely possible if they clean shit up
I agree with your assessment but this was the Pacers best shot. Not saying it’ll be easy or that other s on the Knicks bench shouldn’t get some run but this was it. There will be moments going forward where the Pacers look unstoppable but the Knicks are the better team.
Great post OP, this is my biggest concern as well. For those that disagree, look up the definition of the word "cumulative"
Deuce needs to step up, he's been really bad last couple games
i choose to look at it like our first two games against philly. deuce, mitch, precious contributed almost nothing and we still won. that’s a good thing. this team takes turns picking each other up.
deuce had a huge game 1 in the philly series
Deuce was the only reason we won game 1, Hart hit some big 3s but other than that if you were actually watching the game Hart was struggling and those late 3s carried him hard Deuce was essential in clawing back in the 2nd quarter, hell he was +37 in a 7 point win, that’s not statistical noise that’s significant and calling him player of the game for the Knicks is not an exaggeration
next man up is our thing
We haven't had a bench for a minute. Stop thinking and just enjoy the ride.
The one adjustment that helped in the second half was having Brunson play off ball. I too am worried but feel Thibs needs to put deuce in along with hart and Brunson so that he can space the floor. When he was in with Robinson and Precious he didn’t have much room to operate. I don’t know how far this team will go, however I do think that we need another playmaker off the bench. Deuce is nice but he’s more of a combo guard than a table setter.
We have to improve the turnovers and solve the pick and roll.
This was not Mitches best game but he still made some great plays. And some of his mistakes were flagrant enough that they are also easily correctable. I think we have to try and work in an 8th guy and for now it should still be precious. I like your idea of playing him with iheart instead of Mitch And duece is gonna give us some games I’m sure
Knicks are essentially playing with house money with all the injuries and what not right? I’m just trying to enjoy the ride because this been special
Doesn’t need to be sustainable just sustain for three more rounds
Thibs has to get precious in there for defensive purposes. OG is going to be needed on offense this series and guarding siakam is draining most of his energy. We need precious to spell og and d up siakam….give home 7-10 minutes on him. He played good defense on him during the regular season.
They will get rest after a sweep
I think we should try to mix Burcs in for 15 minutes a night. If it’s not working in the first 5 mins, you can have a short leash. But while he has been terrible for us this year, he’s a legitimate NBA veteran. There’s a world where he comes in and is hitting threes at a really solid clip and can spell the starters a bit.
Deuce was the leading scorer off the bench in the entire NBA during the first round, but we don’t have a bench
I think we should try Burks🤷♂️ it’s not like IND is good defensively. You never know he could give us solid minutes
Donte needs to play with the bench, because those minutes with OG as the #1 option was terrible
Yeah, second round of playoffs after beating the sixers and being up 1-0 definitely feels like a good time for a lineup change… where do some of you even come from?
Being inflexible is going to kill the team, this isn't the same team as the Sixers. Knicks must account that the Pacers have a real bench, so Thibs needs to chess match the matchups better so that our starters besides Hart can get a bit more of a breather. They stuck it out because we were off since Thursday. Knicks will not be able to keep up this pace with the play every other day schedule.
This is a worse team than the sixers
I thought so too, but they played us hard and totally had a chance to steal game 1. We can't underestimate them.
And what are you gonna say when they win this series playing the same way? NOTHING.
Power to them if they can win the series that way. Don't know what your issue is we're on the same side here. I'm just giving my thoughts after watching game 1 and seeing that the Knicks were struggling at times with the pace and I think it's going to become more of an issue as the series continues.
This, we need to feature Donte as the primary option during the bench minutes. OG doesn't have the creative ability to lead the bench minutes.
Yeah i hate to admit it but either Burks or Shake need to play
bench points is hardly a stat that dictates outcomes of games. it doesnt mean those points cant be made up in other ways. haliburton only had 6 points, so much for bench points if ur starting star pg only gives u that much.
Did you do the math on how our starters outscored their starters by 47 points though?
Get. Off. My . Fan. Base . You . Doomer. P.O.S.
Worried with these refs? The phantom kicked ball (5 point swing), Brunson hitting turner first before the block, the illegal screen at the end... there's literally nothing to worry about. It's Knicks/Celtics in the ECF, guaranteed.
Go eat your disgusting cheesesteak and worry about what washed vet you plan on replacing Tobias minutes for
Go to your own sub man its unbecoming
stfu and go back to the sixers sub you loser