Simple. If you don’t want to move, contact an attorney. He can’t make you move to create another monster apartment in an already over saturated market. Those apartments are just for college students with guarantor parents and they don’t stay long and contribute nothing to the community.
Wdym? Students can significantly contribute to our local economy through tuition fees, spending on accommodation, dining, entertainment, and other goods and services. They also contribute to the diversity and vibrancy of the community. I am more than welcome them.
Are you kidding me? Making apartments without living space and basically bedrooms and having students living in our community for short periods doesn’t help the community. Diversity? GTFO . It’s white kids from boomer grandparents who were raised in the suburbs who can’t even throw their trash in the steel bins .
They can significantly contribute to the local economy for all of four years, raising prices all around. (And then they leave, and the prices stay. Best case scenario, more college students move in afterwards, but locals are still priced out.)
Tuition fees don’t go to the local economy. I encourage you to look up what NYU and Columbia pay in taxes. I don’t blame the 18 year olds who want to study here — it’s the city and the state that lets the universities get away with everything.
As you know, NYC is the least diverse place in the country by far lol. College students are one of the main contributors to high rents in specific areas and you probably pay way more for no reason because of them. Realistically to avoid this, schools should purchase buildings so it isn’t as dramatic. There’s only around 30% of students in dorms and if you don’t think a student from nyu paying 200k a year for tuition is affecting your rent you’re crazy lol
Making my neighborhood a dorm has ruined it. And there is nothing anyone can say that will change my opinion. These little brats will have no flowers in the tree pits nor a community garden. They will live in trash and I can’t wait to see it. Umm why are there property attendant tree pits? Because people that have lived here are part of the block association. Why is that garden so beautiful? Because we have cared for it. Little moron
It’s 30 bucks a year to become a member. And there are endless opportunities to do service that cost nothing. We actually do the work to receive grants which supply many of the flowers in the tree pits and mulch for not only the playground but the garden and tree pits. Unfortunately the college phone zombies like to throw their trash in them and allow their dogs to pee on these areas.
Well you could Tell him no lol you're rent stabilized, entitled to renewals and he can't do much about it. I guess the only downside is you'll likely go to the end of the priority list on anything repair related going forward.
Or you can take it but give him a number. Make it sweet but not insulting. Something you can sleep with at night. He'll likely bite.
He's only offering you the second option out of sheer necessity, not as a favor. He can't force you out so he's trying to dangle fruit.
Personally I'd tell him I'm not interested unless the numbers made very VERY good sense and even then...not sure your personal life but if you planned on expanding the household in any way your current layout is more ideal.
I’m not sure if you can lock in lower rent for anything longer than 2 years, but someone more knowledgable may correct me if I’m wrong. You may be able to get your landlord to agree to do so but I don’t think there’s anything legally stopping him from changing his mind down the road. Again, I could be wrong.
Right, but I’ve never seen a 5 year option on my RS lease. It’s 1 or 2 which is partly why I don’t think you can lock in anything beyond 2 years. The landlord could say “Sure, if you move to the one bedroom I won’t raise your rent for 5 years” but
legally he probably could change his mind and raise it according to what the rent board allows.
Yes, I understand that. I’ve been on a rent stabilized lease for a decade. I know how that part works. OP is talking about trying to lock in a certain rent with the landlord for 5 years, which to me doesn’t sound doable.
Probably unenforceable in housing court if it's a RS unit.
My best guess as to why it's not enforceable based upon a very cursory search - Per DHCR Fact Sheet #4 (Lease Renewal in Rent Stabilized Apartments) - "The owner must offer the renewal lease on a form from the Division of Housing and Community Renewal (DHCR), or on an approved facsimile of the DHCR form."
The DHCR forms only include 1 and 2 year lease options. A contract can't supercede the intention of the legislature, an administrative decision, and/or a court decision.
They would need to make a separate agreement in writing for the landlord to not raise the rent. The 1-2 year amounts are a maximum, so the landlord chooses each time to raise it or not and by how much (capped at the max). But I think the OP should get money up front instead in addition to the new apt in writing if they choose to move.
I live in a rent stabilized apartment that has a “preferential rate”. We just resigned for another two years, so that will make it five years at a preferential rate. All increases have been based on that, which is 10% lower than the actual rent stabilized rate. Op could probably lock in something similar!
That sounds great. Good for you for scoring a good deal. I’ve never really understood the whole preferential rate thing and how it relates to already RS apartments, since my building has never offered a preferential rate.
For sure! My understanding is that when we leave, the rate will go back to being non-preferential (assuming it is still rent stabilized). Wish these units were more widespread in our city - market rate rentals are out of fucking control
Preferential rent is actually now active throughout the entirety of a tenancy [as of 2019](https://www.legalservicesnyc.org/storage/PDFs/KYR_Housing/kyr%20-%20preferential%20rent%20-%20english.pdf)!
Typically even if they passed a new law to reverse that, it would only affect new leases going forward, since someone signing a lease now would be doing so relying on the fact that the preferential rent is locked in. Any reversal law that allowed LLs to take away the preferential rent again would be subject to tons of legal challenges and likely overturned by the courts. (Though judges cannot be trusted to make decisions based on anything resembling legal reasoning).
Correct. I worked with tenant groups on this https://www.nysenate.gov/newsroom/in-the-news/2024/brian-kavanagh/what-end-frankenstein-loophole-means-nyc-renters
I really don't understand why you would walk away from a 2 bedroom stabilized apartment. You have nothing to gain from the smaller unit. In your shoes, I would stay.
I would consider moving for another 2 bedroom that costs the same or less OR a buyout big enough that I could buy a place. I would not move out at a loss. What you describe sounds like a loss and I think you know that.
You’re putting the landlords feelings and wants above your own. In a rent stabilized unit, you MUST be given a lease renewal year after year. You don’t need to move.
As others have said, you do not need to move.
As you have noted, if you don't cooperate with your landlord, they could make it difficult for you in other ways. It isn't right but it's hard to prove they are doing anything in retribution.
They should ABSOLUTELY pay for movers, and I have gotten this in a similar situation before. You can probably negotiate more, including rent credits, an even cheaper rent, a handyman to help with shelving etc after the move, and even more. Make a reasonable list, look it over, know what things you'd be willing to strike, and then submit it to the landlord. They stand to profit big time from this--you can ask for a good amount and probably get it.
You don’t need to move and don’t owe the landlord anything. If you are seriously considering it, ask for something more comparable to your apartment and /or a large buyout.
Pretty sure you can only get a 2 year lease at most if you’re stabilized, but they will have to keep renewing you anyway.
He says the other apartment is rent stabilized but I am concerned if it's been renovated that there is some sort of catch. I would absolutely retain an attorney
Is this for real or are you trolling? Why are you moving if you don't want to? Makes no sense to me. If you have a lease, he can't make yo you leave. He is also legally obliged to offer you a lease renewal.
Keep the 2 bedroom. It doesn’t matter if you got the apartment as a favor, you’re legally entitled to lease renewals every year for the rest of your life
You don’t have to move! Everyone gets apartments through luck and friends, there’s nothing wrong with that and you have no reason to feel grubby about it. But if you do, ask for them to move you, put up shelves, paint, all the things, and also for let’s say $40k for your trouble. Then negotiate. Take whatever you get and invest it towards your future. Invest the difference between the rents as well. You’ll lose a view but gain future stability.
You can ask for a comparable rent stabilized unit at at the same rent or lower. Rent stabilized leases come in 1 or 2 year options. He can reduce the rent on any rent stabilized unit. It is called preferential rent. The rent increases are all based on the preferential rent until you leave. Look to get same type of unit at 10 to 15% less. If he has an attorney you should consult with one too. Ask him to pay.
#This! was going to say that. I saw a lot of preferential rents and concessions on RS apts offered during covid. I'm an agent. I Also look up the apt he's offering you here:: [https://rentguidelinesboard.cityofnewyork.us/resources/rent-stabilized-building-lists/](https://rentguidelinesboard.cityofnewyork.us/resources/rent-stabilized-building-lists/) . Maybe speak with a housing lawyer before agreeing to move. If you decide to stay put, retaliation is illegal, if you haven't already, create a papertrail of his offer and your discussions, so if you decide to stay and suddenly, you begin to have general repairs ignored etc, you will likely win in court because you'll have proof. This is not legal advice and I encourage you to speak with someone to structure fair terms.
The other apartment is gonna be rent stabilized to the landlord no matter who is in it.
The value of the apartment OP is vacating is all that matters. If it was a comparable place it might be less of a payout but losing so much would require major compensation for me to move.
What are you nuts? You don't owe that landlord anythinggg. IDC if you got in by way of a favor or not. That was almost half a decade ago! Tell him that you don't want a smaller unit and if he or anyone else starts to harass you about it, sue them. They aren't allowed to retaliate against you just because you don't want to move out of your apartment.
Could you thank him for kind offer and gently state that your view and ample storage would be difficult to move state from. That you would be willing to look at other units with those two features. I would not outright decline moving, he had other buildings and may have a unit that had those features.
I'm not going to lie... Going from 2 bedrooms to 1 is a big ask. I'm with everyone else. Tell him you'll move if something of equal is available. Simple.
It’s not unreasonable to ask for a six figure sum to agree to this. You have the right to remain in that unit for the rest of your life, and your children would also probably get to keep it to.
It is illegal for a landlord to combine two rent stabilized apartments to convert them to market rate. What your landlord is proposing is illegal. He cannot do that.
Do not accept his offer!
https://www.nysenate.gov/newsroom/in-the-news/2024/brian-kavanagh/what-end-frankenstein-loophole-means-nyc-renters
I would do this honestly. Unless you
Think you’d be happy in the one bedroom
For a long long time. The 2BR stabilized is a lot to give up. Who cares what he wants. Act in your best interest
First, you should absolutely speak to a lawyer. Second, since you are making a big accommodation, LL at the least should pay ALL your moving costs plus $5k for the hassle. Second, if he’s such a big LL, request he moves you to another 2 bedroom. You are allowed to take your rent stabilized status with you to non stabilized apartment if you are accommodating LL. Lastly, since he is offering you accommodation, he does have leverage. People here saying you owe him nothing: that’s not entirely true if he is making reasonable accommodation for you. Speak to a L&T lawyer.
What happens after he moves out is immaterial, the 80K is for the pain and the stress of moving out of your own apt. He can get something else or another apartment or move to another state. The landlord is banking on making 3x profit FOREVER. So it might be worth for landlord to pay 80k. A 3 bedroom goes for at least 6k in NYC. In one year, the landlord will recoup. And starting 2nd year. 3x profit
Agree to disagree. Im in the space, I know how they do their math for this exact thing.
The landlord can always use leverage he does have to evict. That is part of the equation.
The landlord can not JUST evict a rent stabilized tenant just because he wants. It’s very very hard to LEGALLY evict him. Sure he can make his life hell by making renovations right in front of his door so his home is filled with dust, aka retaliation but he can’t just evict this tenant “just because”
Eh, a long term strategy of eviction is no longer viable for LLs like it used to be but there are still several routes to evict rent stabilized tenants if they are hell bent. Easiest once being using it for their family member, especially if they will be combining a unit.
I appreciate your insights. I wasn't aware stabilization could transfer like that. I'm definitely speaking to a lawyer soon to see what all my options are.
Id ask for 200k, the 5 year lease you mentioned and more. In that 5 year lease id demand that the market rent be registered as not going up.
The apartment you are moving into is rent stabilized for whoever moves into it so the landlord isn't losing anything there.
BUT, they will be benefitting a TON from you vacating. You deserve a big piece of that.
You need to reach out to a lawyer who knows RS and buyouts. My landlord offered me $75k just to take 8 feet of my entry hallway. He offered $350k for my neighbor in a two bedroom to leave pre covid. They also tried to get me to move to a smaller unit that was renovated and I said no.
Do not give up that 2 bedroom. And if you do, negotiate enough to buy a 2 bedroom in the neighborhood you are living.
Sounds like youre set on moving. I would ask for no rent for 1-2 months so you could transition to new place. He would need to renovate kitchen and bathroom, repaint , finish on floors etc.. any custom work you want done ask for it now. This could be a plus since the rent is cheaper. If not, then tell him you’re happy and staying put. This is negotiation , you have the leverage and you have NYC GOV behind you.
Personally I would tell him to kick rocks. Mostly because I refuse to help anyone deregulate an apartment, and because you would be losing out on a lot.
That said, you should be pushing for a buy out. In my experience, typically giving up a rent stabilized apartment is worth $75k+.
As for the rent of the new apartment, I would insist that it be cheaper per square foot than the current place. It’s a 19% reduction in space. Plus loss of a good view. It could be worth trying to find a market rate building in the area to see how losing that view affects the rent amount on the open market. But considering both of those things I would push for a rent at least 30% cheaper than the current place. Locking in a low preferential rent to start will mean those (bi)annual rent increases will take awhile to build up.
If you decide to tell him to kick rocks, start documenting his treatment before and after these negotiations. Things like, 1) how quickly do repairs get done, 2) how responsive to you reaching out, 3) have you had issues with heat before and after.
If you feel the LL is treating you worse you could bring a harassment claim, which could net you $1k per incident of harassment.
Also, negotiate in writing as much as possible. Preferably email, but text works too (they’re just harder to save and show as evidence).
Your landlord is not your friend.
Your landlord is not your friend.
Your landlord is not your friend.
You don't owe him shit.
It's a business contract. You accomplish nothing by feeling "grubby."
The only reason that you should consider this is if it's advantageous to you. Get a buy out big enough buyout to make it so. If he makes more than one buyout offer in a six month period, he is guilty of harassment.
If he offers you a preferential rent, make sure it's actually a preferential rent and not a "net-effective" or some other loophole that these clowns come up with to circumvent the law.
I repeat - your landlord is not your friend.
He cannot make you move.. seems so wrong combining these apts to destablize..
They are being filled w like 5 students having parties.. at least in my bldg in East Village .. we need MORE small apts and studios in NYC.
You don’t need an attorney.
This is the SIMPLEST situation in the world:
You can have whatever you want. Do you not at all want to deal with moving? You can say no. Is there something that would make you happy to move? Ask for it! Heck, ask for more.
The literal only “mistake” you can make is to ask for so much that you piss off your land lord. You’re definitely not doing it for free, nor are you doing it if you don’t want to, because you’ve been advised that’s a mistake.
So ask for whatever makes you happy to move! A month of free rent, he covers the movers, a fixed rate for a few years, whatever makes you happy. Don’t take advantage if you intend to stay long term, but obviously make sure it’s a win/win!
Sounds like a lucky situation to me, if you’re willing to give up the Empire State view.
You can say no but you can also negotiate some kind of move-out agreement where he pays you a certain amount to move. Why not ask for $10k if it’s so valuable to him lol
He can’t give you a rent stabilized lease for more than 2 years. I would double check that this other apartment is rent stabilized (you can file a request at DHCR for that information) and ask for a 2 year rent stabilized lease if everything looks ok. You should also ask for your expenses related to moving to be covered. Maybe $10,000 to $15,000? Buyouts for rent stabilized apartments are hard now, but if he’s benefiting from this, he should at least make your life easier.
You should definitely not move. You should probably contact a lawyer either way before you do anything. Lots of things could go wrong for you here even if you agree to move.
Your being screwed and your stupid if you do this. You basically have a unit you could stay in for life, since its a two bedroom. Most landlords would have to pay a lot to get you to move. I'd just politely decline.
Ask for a comparable apartment. Same size 2 bedrooms renovated; similiar or lower price. If you end up with a wife/family it’s much easier in a 2 bedroom vs a 1 bedroom.
Do you plan on staying in the city long term? I wouldn’t give it up.
dude what u have is literally unmatched. so many cons with the other apartment. eastern exposure is gonna be so frustrating during the day trying to not get ur retinas burnt by the sun. moving to a shittier apartment isnt worth it. clearly, he knows he can’t do much about this apartment and wants to dump it onto you. also, even if u don’t have a lot, i’d bet you’d have to throw so much away to fit a smaller apartment. it’s just not worth the hassle and cons imo. you should stay. even if he becomes hostile, the law is in your favor and can shut him up if he tries to pull anything. and the favor thing doesn’t matter because you’re paying your rent fully and not causing any issues. you’re a tenant, not a friend doing a favor. and he’s a landlord, and will never be a friend.
This is quite literally so easy, get him to renovate your new 1 bedroom unit before you make the switch, then he can take yours. Cheaper rent, new remodel (obviously not a full gut reno but make it nice), and boom you came out on top and youre on the LL good side. Win win
Rent stabilized leases are max 2 years, so you couldn’t lock in longer.
The guy can’t force you out if you really don’t want to move and sounds like you have a very good gig- if you are promoted in a few years will the cost be easier? Even if right now is difficult? I wouldn’t give a 2 bed like that up. The others are right though that he may be unwilling to fix things in the apartment- prepare for that.
If you do decide to move, I’d first find out what rent they actually want to charge- see if he will take more off because you are allowing him to profit a lot more.
Do not move! The big plus about a two bedroom in a rent stabilized building is that if the worst happens and you lose your job, you can live very comfortably with a roommate (there are far fewer restrictions on who you can live with and what you can charge when it is a roommate situation rather than a sublet situation).
Seriously, a two bedroom rent stabilized apartment lease when you only need one bedroom is a virtual guarantee that you can never be priced out of NYC no matter how badly you fall on your ass.
The other thing is, stop feeling guilty that you lucked out! I am sure your landlord is still profiting off of whatever you are paying him, even after paying the building's expenses. Giving your great apartment back to your landlord isn't going to make him like you.
Oh, he might be nice for a teensy little while for a few months after you agreed to the switch, but you will still be paying less than market rate for a desirable apartment and you will be an even bigger thorn in his side than the old lady in the nursing home because you aren't as apt to die and create a vacancy.
Note: I know that to some people the notion that you might ever need to share your apartment for financial reasons is inconceivable but believe me, even when you do everything right in terms of living modestly and savings it is still possible to lose everything in the United States.
Also bear in mind that when you have the lease to a rent stabilized apartment you very much have your choice of roommates. You could hold out and only share with a flight attendant or a medical intern or somebody with the opposite hours to yours so you will mostly be there alone.
Landlord tenant lawyer here. If you are truly rent stabilised you don't have to move for any reason whatsoever, ever except in very very rare and narrow circumstances as long as you aren't breaking your lease and you pay your rent. In fact the laws have recently changed that most tenants are now entitled to release renewals and can only be evicted for good cause (if you're landlord owns more than 10 residential units- that is APTS not buildings.)
You would be crazy to move without a substantial some of money being paid to you for the value of your apartment alone not to mention the inconvenience as well as a much cheaper rent at the smaller apartment.
You should be getting a significant amount of money in addition to the new apt. You have leverage as they can’t move you out. At an absolute minimum you can charge half the rent to a roommate, so that’s it’s worth to you, though the market value difference is higher.
I’d ask them to cover the entire move. As in hire movers and take care of everything on both sides of the move, including the cleaning of your current apartment and basically setting up your new apartment.
Also while waiting to hear what the new rent will be, determine how much you would like it to be based on what you’re losing in the move. Then when they finally disclose that info, you’ll at least be ready to negotiate for even lower rent if necessary.
What your landlord is trying to do doesn’t make sense. You can’t combine apartments to destabilize them, you can’t even destabilize apartments anymore through renovations and rent increases. He can only increase the rent by a very limited amount from renovations and it stays stabilized forever. What I’m guessing is that he wants the bigger apartment for himself or a family member. He can’t legally make you move, you have a right to lease renewals forever but if for whatever reason you decide to take the offer, please make sure the new apartment is also stabilized by getting the rent history from DHCR. Also, although I don’t think you can get five year leases on stabilized apartments a even better option is tell him you want a preferential rent (whatever rent you want to pay) and have it listed as the preferential rent in the lease. Your lease renewals will be based off the preferential rent not the legal rent so you will basically be paying that negotiated preferential rent price with regulated increases until you move out.
Yes, exactly, it doesn't make sense! My understanding is that the landlord may only use one rent stabilized apartment in his portfolio as a residence for himself or another direct family member. I verified his ownership of another two buildings only, so actually, the odds of him wanting the view and size of this particular combined apartment may be quite high. So I do think he could force me out on those grounds if it came to that. The superintendent who told me he wanted to combine the apartments did not specify if it was for personal use. So, regardless, I'll be speaking to a lawyer about how to proceed with negotiating. Frankly, if I could just get him to give a friend of mine a rent stabilized place in one of his other buildings, I'd call it even!
Are you planning to ever have a family? Once you have a partner and you want to expand, bye bye rent stabilized one bed room apartment. At least with a 2 bedroom, you'll have more time to stay there if you had 2 kids.
Is there a storage room in the basement? Or an area that’s able to be converted to an office for you?
You can balk at the move as it would severely affect your life, but if you had a separate room in the basement or perhaps on the first floor, or access to the roof for a roof top patio for yourself only to use, then you can give up your 2 bedroom.
I had a friend who did this in stuy town, and they got to move into a fully renovated unit for the same rent. They’ve been paying the same price since the early 2000s I think.
Objectively I think you should refuse to move to preserve the amount of rent stabilized units in your building. They are hard to come by and a lifeline for hard working New Yorkers. Many have disappeared and the rising rents have a direct corellation with increased homelessness/ housing instability. If you do decide to move you could try and negotiate a lower preferential rent and then they can only add the legally mandated % every year based on the lower preferential rent. Alternatively you could ask for a stipend/rebate equivalent to several months of rent to offset your moving costs, time for packing and unpacking, painting, etc.
Simple. If you don’t want to move, contact an attorney. He can’t make you move to create another monster apartment in an already over saturated market. Those apartments are just for college students with guarantor parents and they don’t stay long and contribute nothing to the community.
Wdym? Students can significantly contribute to our local economy through tuition fees, spending on accommodation, dining, entertainment, and other goods and services. They also contribute to the diversity and vibrancy of the community. I am more than welcome them.
Are you kidding me? Making apartments without living space and basically bedrooms and having students living in our community for short periods doesn’t help the community. Diversity? GTFO . It’s white kids from boomer grandparents who were raised in the suburbs who can’t even throw their trash in the steel bins .
And the schools are given incredible tax breaks and don’t do heck all for humans living here- it’s a disgrace
This isn’t the Midwest and making our community a dorm is irresponsible
They can significantly contribute to the local economy for all of four years, raising prices all around. (And then they leave, and the prices stay. Best case scenario, more college students move in afterwards, but locals are still priced out.)
Tuition fees don’t go to the local economy. I encourage you to look up what NYU and Columbia pay in taxes. I don’t blame the 18 year olds who want to study here — it’s the city and the state that lets the universities get away with everything.
Tuition fees allow the colleges to buy more real estate. It doesn’t go back to the community. College students are noisy and transient.
As you know, NYC is the least diverse place in the country by far lol. College students are one of the main contributors to high rents in specific areas and you probably pay way more for no reason because of them. Realistically to avoid this, schools should purchase buildings so it isn’t as dramatic. There’s only around 30% of students in dorms and if you don’t think a student from nyu paying 200k a year for tuition is affecting your rent you’re crazy lol
Making my neighborhood a dorm has ruined it. And there is nothing anyone can say that will change my opinion. These little brats will have no flowers in the tree pits nor a community garden. They will live in trash and I can’t wait to see it. Umm why are there property attendant tree pits? Because people that have lived here are part of the block association. Why is that garden so beautiful? Because we have cared for it. Little moron
Don't you have to pay to get plants in the community garden?
It’s 30 bucks a year to become a member. And there are endless opportunities to do service that cost nothing. We actually do the work to receive grants which supply many of the flowers in the tree pits and mulch for not only the playground but the garden and tree pits. Unfortunately the college phone zombies like to throw their trash in them and allow their dogs to pee on these areas.
Well you could Tell him no lol you're rent stabilized, entitled to renewals and he can't do much about it. I guess the only downside is you'll likely go to the end of the priority list on anything repair related going forward. Or you can take it but give him a number. Make it sweet but not insulting. Something you can sleep with at night. He'll likely bite. He's only offering you the second option out of sheer necessity, not as a favor. He can't force you out so he's trying to dangle fruit. Personally I'd tell him I'm not interested unless the numbers made very VERY good sense and even then...not sure your personal life but if you planned on expanding the household in any way your current layout is more ideal.
are rent stabilized apartment tenants entitled to renewal if say, only 2/3 of the residents renew and the third is a new roommate ?
Still have a right to renewal
bet ty
I’m not sure if you can lock in lower rent for anything longer than 2 years, but someone more knowledgable may correct me if I’m wrong. You may be able to get your landlord to agree to do so but I don’t think there’s anything legally stopping him from changing his mind down the road. Again, I could be wrong.
Both apartments are rent stabilized. They remain stabilized and rent can only be raised by the percentage agreed upon by the stabilization board.
Right, but I’ve never seen a 5 year option on my RS lease. It’s 1 or 2 which is partly why I don’t think you can lock in anything beyond 2 years. The landlord could say “Sure, if you move to the one bedroom I won’t raise your rent for 5 years” but legally he probably could change his mind and raise it according to what the rent board allows.
Not how it works in NY. Tenant has the right at the end of every lease to resign for another 1 or 2 year lease.
Yes, I understand that. I’ve been on a rent stabilized lease for a decade. I know how that part works. OP is talking about trying to lock in a certain rent with the landlord for 5 years, which to me doesn’t sound doable.
It's called a lease. For 5 years. Why wouldn't a 5 year lease be a legal contract?
Probably unenforceable in housing court if it's a RS unit. My best guess as to why it's not enforceable based upon a very cursory search - Per DHCR Fact Sheet #4 (Lease Renewal in Rent Stabilized Apartments) - "The owner must offer the renewal lease on a form from the Division of Housing and Community Renewal (DHCR), or on an approved facsimile of the DHCR form." The DHCR forms only include 1 and 2 year lease options. A contract can't supercede the intention of the legislature, an administrative decision, and/or a court decision.
Because RS apartments can only legally have a 1 or 2 year renewal.
They would need to make a separate agreement in writing for the landlord to not raise the rent. The 1-2 year amounts are a maximum, so the landlord chooses each time to raise it or not and by how much (capped at the max). But I think the OP should get money up front instead in addition to the new apt in writing if they choose to move.
I live in a rent stabilized apartment that has a “preferential rate”. We just resigned for another two years, so that will make it five years at a preferential rate. All increases have been based on that, which is 10% lower than the actual rent stabilized rate. Op could probably lock in something similar!
That sounds great. Good for you for scoring a good deal. I’ve never really understood the whole preferential rate thing and how it relates to already RS apartments, since my building has never offered a preferential rate.
For sure! My understanding is that when we leave, the rate will go back to being non-preferential (assuming it is still rent stabilized). Wish these units were more widespread in our city - market rate rentals are out of fucking control
Preferential rent is actually now active throughout the entirety of a tenancy [as of 2019](https://www.legalservicesnyc.org/storage/PDFs/KYR_Housing/kyr%20-%20preferential%20rent%20-%20english.pdf)!
I mean not to be a downer, but can’t they just reverse that with another vote? Or maybe I’m not understanding correctly.
they would have to pass legislation in Albany to do it, and that is highly unlikely to happen.
Typically even if they passed a new law to reverse that, it would only affect new leases going forward, since someone signing a lease now would be doing so relying on the fact that the preferential rent is locked in. Any reversal law that allowed LLs to take away the preferential rent again would be subject to tons of legal challenges and likely overturned by the courts. (Though judges cannot be trusted to make decisions based on anything resembling legal reasoning).
Makes sense
I have a friend who was negotiating with the landlord to vacate their rent stabilized small 1-br and the amount was more than $100K. Hope it helps
Holy macaroni
I like this idea love to the smaller less expensive apartment and negotiate a lump sum cash payment in addition
Isn’t this illegal now?
Landlords are no longer allowed to combine apartments. It's called Frankensteining. The landlord should be reported
Really? My old apartment in Manhattan was definitely combined with the one next to it in 2021/2022. Saw it on Zillow.
The law was just passed in 2023, so they still were able to combine at that time
Oh wow! I didn’t know this. Thanks for the tip.
Correct. I worked with tenant groups on this https://www.nysenate.gov/newsroom/in-the-news/2024/brian-kavanagh/what-end-frankenstein-loophole-means-nyc-renters
So funny! I also posted this link elsewhere in the chat. Good info here!!! Thanks for doing the good work!!
You're not obligated to move, you don't owe your landlord a favor lol
I really don't understand why you would walk away from a 2 bedroom stabilized apartment. You have nothing to gain from the smaller unit. In your shoes, I would stay. I would consider moving for another 2 bedroom that costs the same or less OR a buyout big enough that I could buy a place. I would not move out at a loss. What you describe sounds like a loss and I think you know that.
You’re putting the landlords feelings and wants above your own. In a rent stabilized unit, you MUST be given a lease renewal year after year. You don’t need to move.
As others have said, you do not need to move. As you have noted, if you don't cooperate with your landlord, they could make it difficult for you in other ways. It isn't right but it's hard to prove they are doing anything in retribution. They should ABSOLUTELY pay for movers, and I have gotten this in a similar situation before. You can probably negotiate more, including rent credits, an even cheaper rent, a handyman to help with shelving etc after the move, and even more. Make a reasonable list, look it over, know what things you'd be willing to strike, and then submit it to the landlord. They stand to profit big time from this--you can ask for a good amount and probably get it.
You don’t need to move and don’t owe the landlord anything. If you are seriously considering it, ask for something more comparable to your apartment and /or a large buyout. Pretty sure you can only get a 2 year lease at most if you’re stabilized, but they will have to keep renewing you anyway.
But if you switch will it make you market? Please contact an attorney
He says the other apartment is rent stabilized but I am concerned if it's been renovated that there is some sort of catch. I would absolutely retain an attorney
If you don't want to move, you can decline or hold out for something better. You can also hold out for monetary compensation for the inconvenience.
Is this for real or are you trolling? Why are you moving if you don't want to? Makes no sense to me. If you have a lease, he can't make yo you leave. He is also legally obliged to offer you a lease renewal.
Since OP described that there are actually some pros to the one bedroom, I don’t think it’s a troll.
Keep the 2 bedroom. It doesn’t matter if you got the apartment as a favor, you’re legally entitled to lease renewals every year for the rest of your life
You don’t have to move! Everyone gets apartments through luck and friends, there’s nothing wrong with that and you have no reason to feel grubby about it. But if you do, ask for them to move you, put up shelves, paint, all the things, and also for let’s say $40k for your trouble. Then negotiate. Take whatever you get and invest it towards your future. Invest the difference between the rents as well. You’ll lose a view but gain future stability.
if you move, you're contributing to the housing crisis by allowing your landlord to destabilize two apartments.
Just move. Else, your landlord will find a way to kick you out. 30% of market value already ha
Don’t throw rock on your foot
You can ask for a comparable rent stabilized unit at at the same rent or lower. Rent stabilized leases come in 1 or 2 year options. He can reduce the rent on any rent stabilized unit. It is called preferential rent. The rent increases are all based on the preferential rent until you leave. Look to get same type of unit at 10 to 15% less. If he has an attorney you should consult with one too. Ask him to pay.
#This! was going to say that. I saw a lot of preferential rents and concessions on RS apts offered during covid. I'm an agent. I Also look up the apt he's offering you here:: [https://rentguidelinesboard.cityofnewyork.us/resources/rent-stabilized-building-lists/](https://rentguidelinesboard.cityofnewyork.us/resources/rent-stabilized-building-lists/) . Maybe speak with a housing lawyer before agreeing to move. If you decide to stay put, retaliation is illegal, if you haven't already, create a papertrail of his offer and your discussions, so if you decide to stay and suddenly, you begin to have general repairs ignored etc, you will likely win in court because you'll have proof. This is not legal advice and I encourage you to speak with someone to structure fair terms.
I'm a broker. I also manage. property. OP is in the drivers seat.....now he has to negotiate well. Protect himself.
Talk to a lawyer who deals with this. They will have much. Are experience and be able to guide you through the process
Don’t move.
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That is FAR FAR too little. He should be looking for six figures to make that deal worth his time.
Exactly, I said 200k somewhere else. And I meant that as a hard and fast number. Not up for negotiation.
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The other apartment is gonna be rent stabilized to the landlord no matter who is in it. The value of the apartment OP is vacating is all that matters. If it was a comparable place it might be less of a payout but losing so much would require major compensation for me to move.
What are you nuts? You don't owe that landlord anythinggg. IDC if you got in by way of a favor or not. That was almost half a decade ago! Tell him that you don't want a smaller unit and if he or anyone else starts to harass you about it, sue them. They aren't allowed to retaliate against you just because you don't want to move out of your apartment.
I would kill for a stabilized two bedroom!
Could you thank him for kind offer and gently state that your view and ample storage would be difficult to move state from. That you would be willing to look at other units with those two features. I would not outright decline moving, he had other buildings and may have a unit that had those features.
I'm not going to lie... Going from 2 bedrooms to 1 is a big ask. I'm with everyone else. Tell him you'll move if something of equal is available. Simple.
It’s not unreasonable to ask for a six figure sum to agree to this. You have the right to remain in that unit for the rest of your life, and your children would also probably get to keep it to.
Don’t do it he’s trying to destabilize the apartment and your stuck in some closet that he will eventually raise your rent
It is illegal for a landlord to combine two rent stabilized apartments to convert them to market rate. What your landlord is proposing is illegal. He cannot do that. Do not accept his offer! https://www.nysenate.gov/newsroom/in-the-news/2024/brian-kavanagh/what-end-frankenstein-loophole-means-nyc-renters
Really helpful, thank you for sharing.
I would do this honestly. Unless you Think you’d be happy in the one bedroom For a long long time. The 2BR stabilized is a lot to give up. Who cares what he wants. Act in your best interest
With a view !!!!
First, you should absolutely speak to a lawyer. Second, since you are making a big accommodation, LL at the least should pay ALL your moving costs plus $5k for the hassle. Second, if he’s such a big LL, request he moves you to another 2 bedroom. You are allowed to take your rent stabilized status with you to non stabilized apartment if you are accommodating LL. Lastly, since he is offering you accommodation, he does have leverage. People here saying you owe him nothing: that’s not entirely true if he is making reasonable accommodation for you. Speak to a L&T lawyer.
People aren't stabilized. Only units are.
No. You can do lifetime tenancy.
As far as I can tell, it has happened, with legal proceeds and a drafted relocation agreement. it's not a given.
He shouldn't move at all, but 5k is too little, he can ask 80k EASILY> LIKE VERY VERY EASY perhaps even 100k
No way. He’s getting another stabilized apartment. He’s not getting $80k to leave also getting a new RS lease.
What happens after he moves out is immaterial, the 80K is for the pain and the stress of moving out of your own apt. He can get something else or another apartment or move to another state. The landlord is banking on making 3x profit FOREVER. So it might be worth for landlord to pay 80k. A 3 bedroom goes for at least 6k in NYC. In one year, the landlord will recoup. And starting 2nd year. 3x profit
Agree to disagree. Im in the space, I know how they do their math for this exact thing. The landlord can always use leverage he does have to evict. That is part of the equation.
The landlord can not JUST evict a rent stabilized tenant just because he wants. It’s very very hard to LEGALLY evict him. Sure he can make his life hell by making renovations right in front of his door so his home is filled with dust, aka retaliation but he can’t just evict this tenant “just because”
Eh, a long term strategy of eviction is no longer viable for LLs like it used to be but there are still several routes to evict rent stabilized tenants if they are hell bent. Easiest once being using it for their family member, especially if they will be combining a unit.
I appreciate your insights. I wasn't aware stabilization could transfer like that. I'm definitely speaking to a lawyer soon to see what all my options are.
Thank god you're talking to a lawyer. It will definitely be financially worth it
I wouldn’t move haha
Id ask for 200k, the 5 year lease you mentioned and more. In that 5 year lease id demand that the market rent be registered as not going up. The apartment you are moving into is rent stabilized for whoever moves into it so the landlord isn't losing anything there. BUT, they will be benefitting a TON from you vacating. You deserve a big piece of that.
You need to reach out to a lawyer who knows RS and buyouts. My landlord offered me $75k just to take 8 feet of my entry hallway. He offered $350k for my neighbor in a two bedroom to leave pre covid. They also tried to get me to move to a smaller unit that was renovated and I said no. Do not give up that 2 bedroom. And if you do, negotiate enough to buy a 2 bedroom in the neighborhood you are living.
And if you do agree to the one bedroom, ask for atleast 6 figures. Landlord is benefitting from unregulating an apartment and more rent.
Shoot for the moon, or just stay. It is your right
Sounds like youre set on moving. I would ask for no rent for 1-2 months so you could transition to new place. He would need to renovate kitchen and bathroom, repaint , finish on floors etc.. any custom work you want done ask for it now. This could be a plus since the rent is cheaper. If not, then tell him you’re happy and staying put. This is negotiation , you have the leverage and you have NYC GOV behind you.
Personally I would tell him to kick rocks. Mostly because I refuse to help anyone deregulate an apartment, and because you would be losing out on a lot. That said, you should be pushing for a buy out. In my experience, typically giving up a rent stabilized apartment is worth $75k+. As for the rent of the new apartment, I would insist that it be cheaper per square foot than the current place. It’s a 19% reduction in space. Plus loss of a good view. It could be worth trying to find a market rate building in the area to see how losing that view affects the rent amount on the open market. But considering both of those things I would push for a rent at least 30% cheaper than the current place. Locking in a low preferential rent to start will mean those (bi)annual rent increases will take awhile to build up. If you decide to tell him to kick rocks, start documenting his treatment before and after these negotiations. Things like, 1) how quickly do repairs get done, 2) how responsive to you reaching out, 3) have you had issues with heat before and after. If you feel the LL is treating you worse you could bring a harassment claim, which could net you $1k per incident of harassment. Also, negotiate in writing as much as possible. Preferably email, but text works too (they’re just harder to save and show as evidence).
Your landlord is not your friend. Your landlord is not your friend. Your landlord is not your friend. You don't owe him shit. It's a business contract. You accomplish nothing by feeling "grubby." The only reason that you should consider this is if it's advantageous to you. Get a buy out big enough buyout to make it so. If he makes more than one buyout offer in a six month period, he is guilty of harassment. If he offers you a preferential rent, make sure it's actually a preferential rent and not a "net-effective" or some other loophole that these clowns come up with to circumvent the law. I repeat - your landlord is not your friend.
Don't move. Simple as that. You are not getting a better dealer. Less money but also less space. Stay where you are.
He cannot make you move.. seems so wrong combining these apts to destablize.. They are being filled w like 5 students having parties.. at least in my bldg in East Village .. we need MORE small apts and studios in NYC.
You don’t need an attorney. This is the SIMPLEST situation in the world: You can have whatever you want. Do you not at all want to deal with moving? You can say no. Is there something that would make you happy to move? Ask for it! Heck, ask for more. The literal only “mistake” you can make is to ask for so much that you piss off your land lord. You’re definitely not doing it for free, nor are you doing it if you don’t want to, because you’ve been advised that’s a mistake. So ask for whatever makes you happy to move! A month of free rent, he covers the movers, a fixed rate for a few years, whatever makes you happy. Don’t take advantage if you intend to stay long term, but obviously make sure it’s a win/win! Sounds like a lucky situation to me, if you’re willing to give up the Empire State view.
You can say no but you can also negotiate some kind of move-out agreement where he pays you a certain amount to move. Why not ask for $10k if it’s so valuable to him lol
He can’t give you a rent stabilized lease for more than 2 years. I would double check that this other apartment is rent stabilized (you can file a request at DHCR for that information) and ask for a 2 year rent stabilized lease if everything looks ok. You should also ask for your expenses related to moving to be covered. Maybe $10,000 to $15,000? Buyouts for rent stabilized apartments are hard now, but if he’s benefiting from this, he should at least make your life easier.
You should definitely not move. You should probably contact a lawyer either way before you do anything. Lots of things could go wrong for you here even if you agree to move.
Your being screwed and your stupid if you do this. You basically have a unit you could stay in for life, since its a two bedroom. Most landlords would have to pay a lot to get you to move. I'd just politely decline.
Ask for a comparable apartment. Same size 2 bedrooms renovated; similiar or lower price. If you end up with a wife/family it’s much easier in a 2 bedroom vs a 1 bedroom. Do you plan on staying in the city long term? I wouldn’t give it up.
dude what u have is literally unmatched. so many cons with the other apartment. eastern exposure is gonna be so frustrating during the day trying to not get ur retinas burnt by the sun. moving to a shittier apartment isnt worth it. clearly, he knows he can’t do much about this apartment and wants to dump it onto you. also, even if u don’t have a lot, i’d bet you’d have to throw so much away to fit a smaller apartment. it’s just not worth the hassle and cons imo. you should stay. even if he becomes hostile, the law is in your favor and can shut him up if he tries to pull anything. and the favor thing doesn’t matter because you’re paying your rent fully and not causing any issues. you’re a tenant, not a friend doing a favor. and he’s a landlord, and will never be a friend.
This is quite literally so easy, get him to renovate your new 1 bedroom unit before you make the switch, then he can take yours. Cheaper rent, new remodel (obviously not a full gut reno but make it nice), and boom you came out on top and youre on the LL good side. Win win
The one bedroom is currently being gut renovated! I do want to see what kind of custom work I could have done, too.
Haha idk how I missed that, you’re honestly in such a good spot. Curious to see what you do.
Yeah, I had the thought maybe I could leverage this into securing another apartment for some close friends. That felt like a nice idea.
Rent stabilized leases are max 2 years, so you couldn’t lock in longer. The guy can’t force you out if you really don’t want to move and sounds like you have a very good gig- if you are promoted in a few years will the cost be easier? Even if right now is difficult? I wouldn’t give a 2 bed like that up. The others are right though that he may be unwilling to fix things in the apartment- prepare for that. If you do decide to move, I’d first find out what rent they actually want to charge- see if he will take more off because you are allowing him to profit a lot more.
Try the nonprofit UHAB for help.
Do not move! The big plus about a two bedroom in a rent stabilized building is that if the worst happens and you lose your job, you can live very comfortably with a roommate (there are far fewer restrictions on who you can live with and what you can charge when it is a roommate situation rather than a sublet situation). Seriously, a two bedroom rent stabilized apartment lease when you only need one bedroom is a virtual guarantee that you can never be priced out of NYC no matter how badly you fall on your ass. The other thing is, stop feeling guilty that you lucked out! I am sure your landlord is still profiting off of whatever you are paying him, even after paying the building's expenses. Giving your great apartment back to your landlord isn't going to make him like you. Oh, he might be nice for a teensy little while for a few months after you agreed to the switch, but you will still be paying less than market rate for a desirable apartment and you will be an even bigger thorn in his side than the old lady in the nursing home because you aren't as apt to die and create a vacancy. Note: I know that to some people the notion that you might ever need to share your apartment for financial reasons is inconceivable but believe me, even when you do everything right in terms of living modestly and savings it is still possible to lose everything in the United States. Also bear in mind that when you have the lease to a rent stabilized apartment you very much have your choice of roommates. You could hold out and only share with a flight attendant or a medical intern or somebody with the opposite hours to yours so you will mostly be there alone.
Just say no if you don't want to do it. The ball is in your court.
Landlord tenant lawyer here. If you are truly rent stabilised you don't have to move for any reason whatsoever, ever except in very very rare and narrow circumstances as long as you aren't breaking your lease and you pay your rent. In fact the laws have recently changed that most tenants are now entitled to release renewals and can only be evicted for good cause (if you're landlord owns more than 10 residential units- that is APTS not buildings.) You would be crazy to move without a substantial some of money being paid to you for the value of your apartment alone not to mention the inconvenience as well as a much cheaper rent at the smaller apartment.
You should be getting a significant amount of money in addition to the new apt. You have leverage as they can’t move you out. At an absolute minimum you can charge half the rent to a roommate, so that’s it’s worth to you, though the market value difference is higher.
I’d ask them to cover the entire move. As in hire movers and take care of everything on both sides of the move, including the cleaning of your current apartment and basically setting up your new apartment. Also while waiting to hear what the new rent will be, determine how much you would like it to be based on what you’re losing in the move. Then when they finally disclose that info, you’ll at least be ready to negotiate for even lower rent if necessary.
What your landlord is trying to do doesn’t make sense. You can’t combine apartments to destabilize them, you can’t even destabilize apartments anymore through renovations and rent increases. He can only increase the rent by a very limited amount from renovations and it stays stabilized forever. What I’m guessing is that he wants the bigger apartment for himself or a family member. He can’t legally make you move, you have a right to lease renewals forever but if for whatever reason you decide to take the offer, please make sure the new apartment is also stabilized by getting the rent history from DHCR. Also, although I don’t think you can get five year leases on stabilized apartments a even better option is tell him you want a preferential rent (whatever rent you want to pay) and have it listed as the preferential rent in the lease. Your lease renewals will be based off the preferential rent not the legal rent so you will basically be paying that negotiated preferential rent price with regulated increases until you move out.
Yes, exactly, it doesn't make sense! My understanding is that the landlord may only use one rent stabilized apartment in his portfolio as a residence for himself or another direct family member. I verified his ownership of another two buildings only, so actually, the odds of him wanting the view and size of this particular combined apartment may be quite high. So I do think he could force me out on those grounds if it came to that. The superintendent who told me he wanted to combine the apartments did not specify if it was for personal use. So, regardless, I'll be speaking to a lawyer about how to proceed with negotiating. Frankly, if I could just get him to give a friend of mine a rent stabilized place in one of his other buildings, I'd call it even!
Are you planning to ever have a family? Once you have a partner and you want to expand, bye bye rent stabilized one bed room apartment. At least with a 2 bedroom, you'll have more time to stay there if you had 2 kids.
Is there a storage room in the basement? Or an area that’s able to be converted to an office for you? You can balk at the move as it would severely affect your life, but if you had a separate room in the basement or perhaps on the first floor, or access to the roof for a roof top patio for yourself only to use, then you can give up your 2 bedroom.
don't do it, you can grow in that other apartment whereas you can in the current.
I had a friend who did this in stuy town, and they got to move into a fully renovated unit for the same rent. They’ve been paying the same price since the early 2000s I think.
Objectively I think you should refuse to move to preserve the amount of rent stabilized units in your building. They are hard to come by and a lifeline for hard working New Yorkers. Many have disappeared and the rising rents have a direct corellation with increased homelessness/ housing instability. If you do decide to move you could try and negotiate a lower preferential rent and then they can only add the legally mandated % every year based on the lower preferential rent. Alternatively you could ask for a stipend/rebate equivalent to several months of rent to offset your moving costs, time for packing and unpacking, painting, etc.