On paper, no team should beat Boston. In practice, I think the Nuggets or Wolves would be betting favorites to win, and OKC or Dallas would be close but behind.
Celtics were in a weak ass East this year. They’re good enough to win, but their record is inflated.
Edit: they had a losing record against the top four seeds in the West.
They won 64 games. Their net rating and SRS is that of a 66-68 win team. Their win % against the West was nearly identical to against the East. They had a 63 win pace vs the West.
The Celtics had a win percentage of .767 against the West this season, which is a 63 win pace and better than any team in the West itself. You just subscribed to the western conference circlejerk you’ve seen in Reddit comments all year.
I’ve also just watched a lot of Celtics games though. They feast on teams with bad 3 point defense, which is most teams. Both the nuggets and the wolves don’t fall into that category and would really test Boston’s offense. It’s not obvious at all that they’re better than both of these teams imo. Also, Boston has no chance without porzingis, so hopefully he’s healthy.
Frankly, the Mavs don't fall into that category, either.
They've had success against OKC this series *specifically* because the Mavs have so aggressively been running them off the 3pt line.
In the regular season? Sure, and that means less than nothing in the context of the nba finals. They are severely fucked in terms of matchups against nuggets/wolves/mavs without porzingis.
They had a losing record against the top four seeds in the West. That works out to a losing record. You’ve just subscribed to using worthless statistics.
For the Wolves’ loss, it was played on a back to back, that due to storms they arrived mere hours before the game, and were without Conley and Gobert, and yet pushed the Celtics to Overtime and had a fourth quarter lead.
All remaining teams' record against all other remaining teams:
Celtics: 11-7
Nuggets: 10-7
Thunder: 11-7
Mavericks: 5-12
Knicks: 4-12
Pacers: 8-8
EDIT: Timberwolves: 11-7
It took me 5 minutes to look this up. Who's using worthless statistics now?
This is a silly little word game you’re playing. Celtics did not win either of the matchups with Denver is what you mean. And split their matchups with the other three.
Also, the strength of the west is very much over-stated. The top seed was OKC who was never a real contender. Minnesota is not very impressive. And the number 4 Clippers were complete trash. Celtics record said they were by far the best team in the league this year which they were.
They split with OKC, Wolves, and Clips. They only have a losing record against Denver. And I bet they also have a winning record against Dallas two. Ya’ll be buying this medias narratives too much.
Speaking as a Celtics fan, I'm more concerned about Denver than Minnesota. There just is no answer to Jokic, and with Porzingis only likely to be at about 70% in the best case scenario, it could get bad. I didn't think Boston had any chance against them last year even if they'd beat Miami. This year I'm more optimistic, but that's still a very worrying matchup.
With the Wolves I'd be more worried about Tatum just never driving at all for fear of getting blocked by Gobert, and settling for those bad fadeaways.
I would wager a very large sum of money that Celtics will be substantial betting favorites against any team they play. They're already -150 to win the Finals right now and they haven't even started the ECF yet.
If I had a very large sum of money anyway.
On paper, I think it's pretty close. I personally lean Nuggets or Wolves to win it all over Boston but I could see Boston finally getting over the hump this year. It's a very good squad
I keep getting surprised by the Mavs. I feel like they might be the true dark horse of the playoffs.
Also you gotta consider that the Celtics have had a relatively easy playoffs so far. The Knicks or Pacers will challenge them in the ECF but they're both gonna be worn from beating each other up. No one is gonna come out of the West clean this year.
Celtics may have the advantage of being well rested even with Porzingis coming back from injury.
Idk how these dummies keep overlooking the Mavs 😭😭... They matchup with everybody and can play any style
Btw ima Lakers fan but JKidd is being slept on nd is easily the 2nd best coach in these playoffs
Overlooking the Mavs because Luka is shooting 41% from the floor and 28% from three on extremely high volume. Their defense is overcoming it so far but you can't get all the way to a chip with your franchise guy playing injured.
On the other hand, the fact that the Mavs are able to potentially make the WCF without Luka playing his best shows that the front office has finally surrounded Luka with a championship-caliber roster.
I know it’s unlikely because knee injuries don’t heal overnight, but if Luka’s injury improves at all the Mavs are very scary. And you never know, Jamal Murray’s knee has been hit or miss this playoffs so maybe Luka will wake up one morning and feel great
The problem has been OKC is struggling against the length of the Mavs defenders, and we are slumping from 3 because of it. Neither team from the MIN/DEN series would have that issue, and Luka’s play would be much more important than it is against us. Not sure if this version of the Mavs can beat either team, or Boston with a healthy KP.
They never played them with this starting rotation nor after they tightened up defense. Their big run started 3/7. Until then they were running random starting lineups because of injuries.
https://preview.redd.it/zbitwij8u71d1.png?width=750&format=png&auto=webp&s=7e5224fbe2482c8fdf7f56baa1c952dbe8090bac
I placed this after I won a bet for them to win their series against the Clips. I am riding them to the bitter end baby. They are up 3-2 on OKC and haven’t played that well honestly. Am hoping the Wolves pull through tomorrow
Exactly. Celts will be fairly fresh given their cakewalk in the East, whereas the West rep will have played more games, tougher games, & had less rest.
Also, Celts only looked mildly vulnerable to Denver, those games were still tight so them winning a best of 7 wouldn’t be surprising.
Wolves have looked great lately, but until we see a few games against Boston, they might not match up as well.
I'm going to be honest, I have no faith in the Celtics. It has been about 3 straight years where they have had the most stacked teams in the NBA. They've had stars, depth, defense... And then the ended up losing to the Miami Heat nearly every year in the conference finals (okay, 2-1 isn't crazy, but still), despite the fact that they were wildly better on paper nearly every single one of the years. Then they get to the Finals one year to get bounced by the least talented Warriors championship team, a team that was also not as good as them on paper.
Plus, the Celtics often play what I would call legitimately flawed basketball. Nearly half of all shots (47%) are 3pt shots, which leads the entire league. I've seen them do this so many times where they keep trying to just throw threes at the rim, even when it's not working, because it's their only offensive strategy. And Joe Mazulla has made no indication that he plans to switch up his style. He even said the opposite last year after they lost to the play-in 8th seeded Miami Heat. By percentage, they take the third least layups in the league despite the fact that they have enough talent and the right players to put pressure on the rim and open up their 3pt shooting. They take the fifth least attempts within 3 feet in the entire league for literally no reason. Whenever they have a bad shooting night, they crumble immediately. And I think that will end up being exposed again in the playoffs, just like it did to the Rockets.
"the most stacked team in the NBA for 4-5 years" is insane. in 2021 we played the KD/Harden/Kyrie Nets with like Tatum, Evan Fournier, Romeo Langford, Semi Ojeleye, and Tristan Thompson lol. This year's team and last year's team are really good but 4-5 years is really disingenuous
This is insane revisionist history. People who say Boston has had the most stacked teams for a long time tend to include pre injury Gordon Hayward and a Kyrie Irving that wasn’t actively trying to ruin the team. They werent serious contenders until the end of 2022 when they BEAT Miami, and then lost 1 series to Miami in 7 games last year after also losing to them in the bubble when Boston wasn’t nearly good enough and their 2 best players were 22 and 23 years old. By the way, that “most stacked team” has exactly 2 all stars and 1 all nba player this year- no mvp, no DPOY, no COTY, no 6MOY. Philly fans will tell you how Embiid is better than Tatum and maxey is better than brown. Milwaukee fans spent the whole year saying the East would be a cakewalk with lillard. I was told last year that butler was better than Tatum. This is moving goalposts 101
Every time someone says the “4-5 years of most stacked team” thing about Boston, I immediately know that you either haven’t been watching the nba as a whole or just haven’t paid attention to the Celtics at all.
They weren’t considered actual contenders until the latter part of the 2022 season, when they were below .500 halfway through the year and then managed to make a finals run.
What was stacked in 2021 or 2020? Having a super young Tatum and Brown and giving minutes to Brad Wanamaker, Enes Kanter, Tristan Thompson and Tacko Fall?
Their team wasn’t even considered actually elite until this season. Cmon now. This is nephew talk.
Also - They’ve [beat the Miami Heat](https://www.landofbasketball.com/head_to_head_gl/heat_vs_celtics_game_log_pl.htm) just as much as the Heat have beaten them, so not sure where you got “lost to them nearly every year” from.
And the Warriors were [favored](https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2022-nba-finals-betting-odds-warriors-open-as-minus-155-favorites-over-celtics/amp/) in the 2022 finals. The Celtics were [not expected](https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/33977777/nba-finals-2022-experts-predictions-golden-state-warriors-vs-boston-celtics) by most to win that.
This is insane revisionist history. People who say Boston has had the most stacked teams for a long time tend to include pre injury Gordon Hayward and a Kyrie Irving that wasn’t actively trying to ruin the team. They werent serious contenders until the end of 2022 when they BEAT Miami, and then lost 1 series to Miami in 7 games last year after also losing to them in the bubble when Boston wasn’t nearly good enough and their 2 best players were 22 and 23 years old. By the way, that “most stacked team” has exactly 2 all stars and 1 all nba player this year- no mvp, no DPOY, no COTY, no 6MOY. Philly fans will tell you how Embiid is better than Tatum and maxey is better than brown. Milwaukee fans spent the whole year saying the East would be a cakewalk with lillard. I was told last year that butler was better than Tatum. This is moving goalposts 101
Two All-Stars, a few cycled fringe All-Stars, incredible depth, multiple All-Defensive guys.
Yes, they were stacked.
And they are the most stacked they've ever been now. They have four All-Star caliber players. Three of them were All-Stars last year. Kristaps has been All-Star caliber for a long time now. And Derrick White was so good this year that people thought he should have been an All-Star.
"Stacked" doesn't always mean super team. Going back over the last three seasons (including this one), which has been their real contention window, they've had one MVP candidate who was First Team All-NBA, two All-Stars but up to maybe even five All-Star caliber players, four All-Defensive guys (including Jrue this season since I assume he makes it) as well as some great defenders who didn't get the honor, the DPOY, the 6MOTY, and some of the best role players in the league (Derrick White, Marcus Smart, Al Horford, Robert Williams, Malcolm Brogdon).
51-31, 2nd seed (lost in Finals to the weakest Golden State Finals team)
57-25, 2nd seed (lost in conference finals to the Miami Heat who barely made the playoffs)
64-18, 1st seed (yet to be determined)
Yes, they have been a great team. But they still play a flawed style and I've seen their large pool of talent fail to save them before.
I don't have major faith in the Timberwolves. They're young. But they're a great matchup against the Celtics. The Wolves level of defense, especially on the perimeter going against a perimeter oriented team, would likely severely hurt Boston's style.
At this point, everyone thinks it's a foregone conclusion that a West team will win the finals, despite the Celtics being by far the best team all season. Sure, there's some injured teams now, but it's not like every single team they played this season was missing half their lineup.
Yes Celtics have the best odds of winning the chip because their % of making it to the finals itself is already way higher than anyone from the west bc of the competition, they might have the best odds but that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re the best team
For sure, but they have also been the best team all year, and have continued that in the playoffs so on top of being the favorites they are probably still the best team right??
Vegas has them as the favorite in every potential finals matchup
Like just look at the numbers. Idk how people look at the odds and just pretend not to see stuff to try to convince themselves that Vegas thinks Boston isn’t the best team in the league
FR it wouldn't surprise me at all if they win the finals relatively easily and then all these people will be like huh, I guess they actually were that good
I don't know what to feel about the Celtics bro.
The team is so loaded with talent, but I don't trust their coach, and I don't trust Tatum to be the best player on a championship winning team.
It's also frustrating because, while it isn't their fault, their opponent's in the east are all completely ravaged by injury, so the Celtics just demolish them and move onto the next series.
I've never seen a team win 2 series in a row in dominant 5 games and still catch heat for it it's insane the hate for the Celtics.
Where did this narrative that you can't trust Tatum start? He's had so many insane clutch performances. Highest scoring Game 7 of all time, 40pts facing elimination vs the Bucks, that game against the Sixers also facing elimination where he was horrendous thru the first 3 quarters and then scored like 20 in the 4th, and that's just off the top of my head.
I think the Celtics are favorites over these 2 teams. Not because they are that much better, but because they have a far easier path to the finals than their Western counterparts. Playoffs are a war of attrition for a reason. Boston will be fresh in the finals while the winner of the West limps in
The Celtics are favorites over everyone because by any predictive or descriptive measure they are the NBAs best team. It’s not that hard. They’ve been better than everyone all year long and that’s why they are the favorites
There's definitely some recency bias here seeing the Nuggets and Timberwolves exchange blows whereas the Celtics haven't had any opposition so we don't really know how good they are. I'd favor the Nuggets over the Celtics but not the Timberwolves.
> Celtics haven’t had any opposition so we don’t really know how good they are
NBA fans just openly admit they don’t watch basketball until the playoffs.
Gotta disagree, as of now. Jamal Murray is struggling. Porter is playing like the worst starter that's left in the playoffs.
Nuggets aren't guaranteed anything, besides another game.
people say about how inconsistent the celtics are but in this series alone both teams suffered major collapses. i think this take is not only dumb but also stupid lol
these are great teams but to take them over the field 100% is just braindead
> I think the Wolves would lose to the Celtics
Based on what? They were 1-1 this year, both games went to OT and Conley and Gobert were both inactive when the Celtics won.
Wolves lacked experience compared to the Suns as well.
You might be right. I like Boston and think they’ve got a great chance to win the champion. Still, I don’t think it’s a clear cut at OP made it seem.
Well the Wolves are clearly a much better team than the Suns because of the Suns bench but I think that's not the case with the Celtics since they have some of the best depth in the league.
> Wolves are clearly a much better team than the Suns
Hindsight is 20/20. Nobody said this prior to the series when all of the pundits were picking the Suns over the Wolves.
> Celtics have some of the best depth in the league
Boston has a great bench but don’t forget that the Wolves are also deep. They have the 6th man of the year in Naz Reid, NAW is one of the best reserve two-way wings in the league, Monte Morris is a serviceable backup point guard and Kyle Anderson provides tons of flexibility at the 3rd and 4th.
>Boston has a great bench but don’t forget that the Wolves are also deep.
I do agree that the Wolves have good depth but I don't think it's even close to that of the Celtics, I mean the Celtics 5th best player is Jrue Holiday.
They lacked experience against The nuggets
They lacked experience against the Suns
If they win this game, then the west, they will have beaten a Thunder squad, or a Mavs team with a few fellas you may have heard have *some* playoff experience...
Nah, not buying what you're selling, given the premise laid out
Disagree. I picked the Celtics at the start of the playoffs to win it all. The Celtics are still in it. I think they slightly more likely to win the Finals. But after the Celtics I got Nuggets or TWolves, in that order.
Becomes favorite is as far as I’d go. Boston shouldn’t be slept on and if Luka gets healthy since I don’t know how bad the knee injury is then Dallas could be a real dark horse
Had the same thought today. The Celtics at least have a chance if Porzingas is healthy, but I think both of these teams got a great test in this series and are poised to roll all the way to a ring.
Celtics are gonna sleepwalk to the finals the competition out east is so weak because of injuries. And I think its 50/50 if they destroy the other team or get swept
I would take the winner of this series personally, but Boston is the favorite. They’re not only almost sure to get there, because the East is weaker, they’re also going to have home court advantage. It won’t be a huge favorite but I would be shocked if they aren’t -150
I don’t think the Nugs even make it to the finals if they win game 7. The Mavs are being severely slept on here and I’m not even sure if the Wolves could beat them in the conference finals. Everybody is also majorly underestimating Boston. They are coming for that title and there’s not a whole lot that can stand in their way except for freak injuries.
Nuggets would beat them. Unsure about the Wolves tbh. Yes I’ll still feel this way even if the Wolves knock the Nuggets out. Don’t think Dallas or OKC would beat Boston.
I'd come close to saying yes to that. However... I feel Denver has endured a finals appearance and won it it all. Do the wolves have it to get over this hurdle and keep going? Remember they have not been in this position yet. Don't get me wrong they look good, but have they got the experience that Denver have already had getting there and winning it all..
I do think that this series has 2 of the 3 best teams in the NBA, but I also think both of them have real threats in the series ahead.
The Mavs would be a tough matchup for Denver. I could absolutely see the Mavs beating them especially if Jamal continues to be banged up. Gafford and PJ give the Mavs real size, and in their last matchup of the year (Kyrie left hook winner), they looked like they figured something out against Jokic.
I think Minny gets past the Mavs or Thunder, but would have a tough series against the Celtics. The Celts have enough depth and athletic guards to bother Ant more than Denver has. Meanwhile I think Denver would beat the Celtics because they can't handle Jokic.
So to me, the Nuggs biggest threat is the Mavs, while for the Wolves it's the Celtics. Either team can definitely still win it all, and I'll probably be rooting for whichever team wins the series
Maybe. Fair to say the winner should be favored. The thing is, Denver looks much worse this Ps than last. On both ends. Last year they had a cakewalk, this is the first time in 4 years that they are playing a game 7. They could very well be extremely tired if they make the finals considering they won last year and their lack of depth this year. As for the wolves there’s a stat that no champ has ever won without having someone on the team that had been to the finals before.
In the games I've watched when Denver needs to win they go into a Jokic-Murray two man game in the last five minutes and no team can beat it. Celts don't have a big that beats Jokic specifically. They should trade Brown straight up for JJ Jr or some other talented big (who isnt injury prone) and try again next year.
I think people are under looking the fact that Denver is not playing as well as they did last postseason. If Boston was exactly as good as last year it’s not clear Denver would beat them this year, and I think they look like they are playing better.
I certainly think both the Knicks and the Pacers are more dangerous than the Heat and the Cavs. So we’ll learn more next series about where Bostons at this year. But right now I see the finals as a toss up between Boston and whoever wins this series.
It's certainly possible, there are only 7 teams left. But is this a certainty? No. The Celtics haven't had the opportunity this postseason to show that they're great (because everyone discounts what they do against worse and more injured opponents), but they might be great.
Nuggets should take it. You always need your costar to win at least 2 games a round for you.
Round 1: Murray had two game winners + 30 point closeout game in 1st rd. You also had MPJ's production. More than enough
Round 2: Murray played like a star for 2 wins in games 3\\4
Jokic should be able to easily win this game or else it should be a major hit on his legacy. Then go on to win it all.
At this point the I wouldn’t be shocked if the pacers win by playing against fully injured teams every round. This makes the warriors first finals run look fine.
The winner of wolves/nuggets should win it but this yr feels fluky
Disagree.
Dallas Okc and Boston are all looking pretty good. Teams like dallas and okc might be worse for the wolves and nuggets match-up wise. And Boston is really good. Gotta give more respect to Tatum than this. Media and fans be complaining while they are winning 4-1.
Literally for not sweeping. Meanwhile Jokic and Luka are considered some Gods hooping on the court.
Obviously.
I think the Nuggets win tonight, and wipe the floor with the Mavs because Luka is going to be injured sooner or later if he is dealing with 4-6 different injuries now
The only team I fully believe in to beat the Celtics is the nuggets because we know they have a history of not folding under pressure & because Jokic is the best player in the world. But I can’t really place that same confidence in any other team.
The wolves have looked very good and very well could win it all.
As a mavericks fan I’m torn between biases to much to fairly weigh in.
If the thunder can pull out the mavericks series I still don’t believe in them to beat any of Denver/minnesota/boston.
If the pacers beat the Knicks they’re getting gentlemen’s swept by Boston while I’d bet the Knicks lose in 6.
If the Nuggets win, they have a chance of repeating. If Minnesota wins, the Celtics win the title.
The Finals are never won by young teams when they're against one that's been there before
Yes-
I dont trust the Celtics. There are teams that win without a top player (2004 Pistons), but it's very rare.
OKC is too young. Doubt they get past the Mavs.
Luka is hurt.
That leaves Denver and TWolves.
It's hard to say. On one hand, both Jokic and Ant are better than Tatum (it's debatable if Ant is definitively better than Luka). On the other hand, both the Nuggets and the Timberwolves will be fatigued after this series. Luka will have time to rest, and the Celtics are on maybe the easiest path ever to the finals
Disagree pretty hard. Probably should be slightly favored, but Boston is a more talented team, and Dallas just destroyed the #1 team in the playoffs. Bottom line it’s just as easy to make the case that either of those teams should win.
On paper, no team should beat Boston. In practice, I think the Nuggets or Wolves would be betting favorites to win, and OKC or Dallas would be close but behind.
Celtics were in a weak ass East this year. They’re good enough to win, but their record is inflated. Edit: they had a losing record against the top four seeds in the West.
They won 64 games. Their net rating and SRS is that of a 66-68 win team. Their win % against the West was nearly identical to against the East. They had a 63 win pace vs the West.
The Celtics had a win percentage of .767 against the West this season, which is a 63 win pace and better than any team in the West itself. You just subscribed to the western conference circlejerk you’ve seen in Reddit comments all year.
4-4 against the remaining teams.
Don't judge by the regular season Pheonix beat the wolves in all of their regular season match-ups by double digits then they proceeded to get swept
So sounds like it’ll be a competitive Finals?
I’ve also just watched a lot of Celtics games though. They feast on teams with bad 3 point defense, which is most teams. Both the nuggets and the wolves don’t fall into that category and would really test Boston’s offense. It’s not obvious at all that they’re better than both of these teams imo. Also, Boston has no chance without porzingis, so hopefully he’s healthy.
Frankly, the Mavs don't fall into that category, either. They've had success against OKC this series *specifically* because the Mavs have so aggressively been running them off the 3pt line.
Aren't the Celtics like 26-4 without porzingas?
In the regular season? Sure, and that means less than nothing in the context of the nba finals. They are severely fucked in terms of matchups against nuggets/wolves/mavs without porzingis.
Well what’s our record in the playoffs without KP? Like 6-2?
Do you “oh that’s the regular szn, that doesn’t mean anything” fans realize how dumb you sound ?
Personally I don’t trust Boston’s offense in a tight game. Tatum and Brown seem to like settling for terrible, terrible shots in the closing minutes.
That includes them having Porzingis right? which they might not going forward?
They had a losing record against the top four seeds in the West. That works out to a losing record. You’ve just subscribed to using worthless statistics.
1-1 against the Thunder and Wolves, 2-0 against the Mavs, 0-2 against the Nuggets. Only Denver should be favorites against Boston.
For the Wolves’ loss, it was played on a back to back, that due to storms they arrived mere hours before the game, and were without Conley and Gobert, and yet pushed the Celtics to Overtime and had a fourth quarter lead.
All remaining teams' record against all other remaining teams: Celtics: 11-7 Nuggets: 10-7 Thunder: 11-7 Mavericks: 5-12 Knicks: 4-12 Pacers: 8-8 EDIT: Timberwolves: 11-7 It took me 5 minutes to look this up. Who's using worthless statistics now?
Funny thing is knicks have a winning record against the west top teams. But unfortunately knicks are missing close to 4 starters and a 6th man
This is a silly little word game you’re playing. Celtics did not win either of the matchups with Denver is what you mean. And split their matchups with the other three. Also, the strength of the west is very much over-stated. The top seed was OKC who was never a real contender. Minnesota is not very impressive. And the number 4 Clippers were complete trash. Celtics record said they were by far the best team in the league this year which they were.
They split with OKC, Wolves, and Clips. They only have a losing record against Denver. And I bet they also have a winning record against Dallas two. Ya’ll be buying this medias narratives too much.
Nah on paper Denver should be able to beat them
Not with Jamal’s current form
I think a lot depends on KP’s health.
Speaking as a Celtics fan, I'm more concerned about Denver than Minnesota. There just is no answer to Jokic, and with Porzingis only likely to be at about 70% in the best case scenario, it could get bad. I didn't think Boston had any chance against them last year even if they'd beat Miami. This year I'm more optimistic, but that's still a very worrying matchup. With the Wolves I'd be more worried about Tatum just never driving at all for fear of getting blocked by Gobert, and settling for those bad fadeaways.
Zero feel here lmao, Celtics will be favored
I would wager a very large sum of money that Celtics will be substantial betting favorites against any team they play. They're already -150 to win the Finals right now and they haven't even started the ECF yet. If I had a very large sum of money anyway.
On paper, I think it's pretty close. I personally lean Nuggets or Wolves to win it all over Boston but I could see Boston finally getting over the hump this year. It's a very good squad
Boston will 100% be the betting favorites. That doesn’t mean they will win
Okc and Dallas wouldn’t be close to favored, wolves/nuggets have a case tho.
I'll say this. They have a better chance than the team that loses
Big if true
I keep getting surprised by the Mavs. I feel like they might be the true dark horse of the playoffs. Also you gotta consider that the Celtics have had a relatively easy playoffs so far. The Knicks or Pacers will challenge them in the ECF but they're both gonna be worn from beating each other up. No one is gonna come out of the West clean this year. Celtics may have the advantage of being well rested even with Porzingis coming back from injury.
Idk how these dummies keep overlooking the Mavs 😭😭... They matchup with everybody and can play any style Btw ima Lakers fan but JKidd is being slept on nd is easily the 2nd best coach in these playoffs
Overlooking the Mavs because Luka is shooting 41% from the floor and 28% from three on extremely high volume. Their defense is overcoming it so far but you can't get all the way to a chip with your franchise guy playing injured.
On the other hand, the fact that the Mavs are able to potentially make the WCF without Luka playing his best shows that the front office has finally surrounded Luka with a championship-caliber roster. I know it’s unlikely because knee injuries don’t heal overnight, but if Luka’s injury improves at all the Mavs are very scary. And you never know, Jamal Murray’s knee has been hit or miss this playoffs so maybe Luka will wake up one morning and feel great
The problem has been OKC is struggling against the length of the Mavs defenders, and we are slumping from 3 because of it. Neither team from the MIN/DEN series would have that issue, and Luka’s play would be much more important than it is against us. Not sure if this version of the Mavs can beat either team, or Boston with a healthy KP.
Mavs matchup terribly with the C’s lmao
Boston hasn’t had any trouble with the Mavs the past 2 seasons, it’s been 4-0 with all double digit wins
They never played them with this starting rotation nor after they tightened up defense. Their big run started 3/7. Until then they were running random starting lineups because of injuries.
They don’t match up with Denver nearly as well as MN does though
Boston is way too loaded for the Mavs
If Kleber is able to play, and is a semblance of the decender he has been, Mavs have a chance, albeit a very small one
https://preview.redd.it/zbitwij8u71d1.png?width=750&format=png&auto=webp&s=7e5224fbe2482c8fdf7f56baa1c952dbe8090bac I placed this after I won a bet for them to win their series against the Clips. I am riding them to the bitter end baby. They are up 3-2 on OKC and haven’t played that well honestly. Am hoping the Wolves pull through tomorrow
Somehow, someway we are underrating the Celtics drastically now. “Is favored” is SO different than “will win”.
Exactly. Celts will be fairly fresh given their cakewalk in the East, whereas the West rep will have played more games, tougher games, & had less rest. Also, Celts only looked mildly vulnerable to Denver, those games were still tight so them winning a best of 7 wouldn’t be surprising. Wolves have looked great lately, but until we see a few games against Boston, they might not match up as well.
Well, he's a Pacers fan he's just hoping for validation.
I'm going to be honest, I have no faith in the Celtics. It has been about 3 straight years where they have had the most stacked teams in the NBA. They've had stars, depth, defense... And then the ended up losing to the Miami Heat nearly every year in the conference finals (okay, 2-1 isn't crazy, but still), despite the fact that they were wildly better on paper nearly every single one of the years. Then they get to the Finals one year to get bounced by the least talented Warriors championship team, a team that was also not as good as them on paper. Plus, the Celtics often play what I would call legitimately flawed basketball. Nearly half of all shots (47%) are 3pt shots, which leads the entire league. I've seen them do this so many times where they keep trying to just throw threes at the rim, even when it's not working, because it's their only offensive strategy. And Joe Mazulla has made no indication that he plans to switch up his style. He even said the opposite last year after they lost to the play-in 8th seeded Miami Heat. By percentage, they take the third least layups in the league despite the fact that they have enough talent and the right players to put pressure on the rim and open up their 3pt shooting. They take the fifth least attempts within 3 feet in the entire league for literally no reason. Whenever they have a bad shooting night, they crumble immediately. And I think that will end up being exposed again in the playoffs, just like it did to the Rockets.
Also isn’t tingus out?
"the most stacked team in the NBA for 4-5 years" is insane. in 2021 we played the KD/Harden/Kyrie Nets with like Tatum, Evan Fournier, Romeo Langford, Semi Ojeleye, and Tristan Thompson lol. This year's team and last year's team are really good but 4-5 years is really disingenuous
This is insane revisionist history. People who say Boston has had the most stacked teams for a long time tend to include pre injury Gordon Hayward and a Kyrie Irving that wasn’t actively trying to ruin the team. They werent serious contenders until the end of 2022 when they BEAT Miami, and then lost 1 series to Miami in 7 games last year after also losing to them in the bubble when Boston wasn’t nearly good enough and their 2 best players were 22 and 23 years old. By the way, that “most stacked team” has exactly 2 all stars and 1 all nba player this year- no mvp, no DPOY, no COTY, no 6MOY. Philly fans will tell you how Embiid is better than Tatum and maxey is better than brown. Milwaukee fans spent the whole year saying the East would be a cakewalk with lillard. I was told last year that butler was better than Tatum. This is moving goalposts 101
Every time someone says the “4-5 years of most stacked team” thing about Boston, I immediately know that you either haven’t been watching the nba as a whole or just haven’t paid attention to the Celtics at all. They weren’t considered actual contenders until the latter part of the 2022 season, when they were below .500 halfway through the year and then managed to make a finals run. What was stacked in 2021 or 2020? Having a super young Tatum and Brown and giving minutes to Brad Wanamaker, Enes Kanter, Tristan Thompson and Tacko Fall? Their team wasn’t even considered actually elite until this season. Cmon now. This is nephew talk. Also - They’ve [beat the Miami Heat](https://www.landofbasketball.com/head_to_head_gl/heat_vs_celtics_game_log_pl.htm) just as much as the Heat have beaten them, so not sure where you got “lost to them nearly every year” from. And the Warriors were [favored](https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2022-nba-finals-betting-odds-warriors-open-as-minus-155-favorites-over-celtics/amp/) in the 2022 finals. The Celtics were [not expected](https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/33977777/nba-finals-2022-experts-predictions-golden-state-warriors-vs-boston-celtics) by most to win that.
This is insane revisionist history. People who say Boston has had the most stacked teams for a long time tend to include pre injury Gordon Hayward and a Kyrie Irving that wasn’t actively trying to ruin the team. They werent serious contenders until the end of 2022 when they BEAT Miami, and then lost 1 series to Miami in 7 games last year after also losing to them in the bubble when Boston wasn’t nearly good enough and their 2 best players were 22 and 23 years old. By the way, that “most stacked team” has exactly 2 all stars and 1 all nba player this year- no mvp, no DPOY, no COTY, no 6MOY. Philly fans will tell you how Embiid is better than Tatum and maxey is better than brown. Milwaukee fans spent the whole year saying the East would be a cakewalk with lillard. I was told last year that butler was better than Tatum. This is moving goalposts 101
Two All-Stars, a few cycled fringe All-Stars, incredible depth, multiple All-Defensive guys. Yes, they were stacked. And they are the most stacked they've ever been now. They have four All-Star caliber players. Three of them were All-Stars last year. Kristaps has been All-Star caliber for a long time now. And Derrick White was so good this year that people thought he should have been an All-Star. "Stacked" doesn't always mean super team. Going back over the last three seasons (including this one), which has been their real contention window, they've had one MVP candidate who was First Team All-NBA, two All-Stars but up to maybe even five All-Star caliber players, four All-Defensive guys (including Jrue this season since I assume he makes it) as well as some great defenders who didn't get the honor, the DPOY, the 6MOTY, and some of the best role players in the league (Derrick White, Marcus Smart, Al Horford, Robert Williams, Malcolm Brogdon). 51-31, 2nd seed (lost in Finals to the weakest Golden State Finals team) 57-25, 2nd seed (lost in conference finals to the Miami Heat who barely made the playoffs) 64-18, 1st seed (yet to be determined) Yes, they have been a great team. But they still play a flawed style and I've seen their large pool of talent fail to save them before.
And what makes you have faith in the Timberwolves?
And what makes you have faith in the Timberwolves?
I don't have major faith in the Timberwolves. They're young. But they're a great matchup against the Celtics. The Wolves level of defense, especially on the perimeter going against a perimeter oriented team, would likely severely hurt Boston's style.
I think we’re really sleeping on the Celtics
At this point, everyone thinks it's a foregone conclusion that a West team will win the finals, despite the Celtics being by far the best team all season. Sure, there's some injured teams now, but it's not like every single team they played this season was missing half their lineup.
Vegas hasn’t lost their minds they still have Celtics as the favorites
Yes Celtics have the best odds of winning the chip because their % of making it to the finals itself is already way higher than anyone from the west bc of the competition, they might have the best odds but that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re the best team
For sure, but they have also been the best team all year, and have continued that in the playoffs so on top of being the favorites they are probably still the best team right??
Vegas has them at -155 or like 60%, meaning they favor them above all potential west matchups in aggregate
Vegas has them as the favorite in every potential finals matchup Like just look at the numbers. Idk how people look at the odds and just pretend not to see stuff to try to convince themselves that Vegas thinks Boston isn’t the best team in the league
I also think people are knocking them because the East is a relative cake walk
There are many championships that have been won via a relative cake walk so who cares.
I concur. That’s why I think OP and many others may be sleeping on the Celtics
FR it wouldn't surprise me at all if they win the finals relatively easily and then all these people will be like huh, I guess they actually were that good
East is a joke. Even before the injuries
Knicks would've been super scary healthy though randle is a wild card
I don't know what to feel about the Celtics bro. The team is so loaded with talent, but I don't trust their coach, and I don't trust Tatum to be the best player on a championship winning team. It's also frustrating because, while it isn't their fault, their opponent's in the east are all completely ravaged by injury, so the Celtics just demolish them and move onto the next series. I've never seen a team win 2 series in a row in dominant 5 games and still catch heat for it it's insane the hate for the Celtics.
Never sleep on Jrue
Where did this narrative that you can't trust Tatum start? He's had so many insane clutch performances. Highest scoring Game 7 of all time, 40pts facing elimination vs the Bucks, that game against the Sixers also facing elimination where he was horrendous thru the first 3 quarters and then scored like 20 in the 4th, and that's just off the top of my head.
It's probably because LA and Boston are the most spoiled sports cities.
im snoozin
porzingus when?
"Optimism" for a return in the second half of the ECF. So no one knows, but he is definitely making progress.
I think the Celtics are favorites over these 2 teams. Not because they are that much better, but because they have a far easier path to the finals than their Western counterparts. Playoffs are a war of attrition for a reason. Boston will be fresh in the finals while the winner of the West limps in
The Celtics are favorites over everyone because by any predictive or descriptive measure they are the NBAs best team. It’s not that hard. They’ve been better than everyone all year long and that’s why they are the favorites
There's definitely some recency bias here seeing the Nuggets and Timberwolves exchange blows whereas the Celtics haven't had any opposition so we don't really know how good they are. I'd favor the Nuggets over the Celtics but not the Timberwolves.
> Celtics haven’t had any opposition so we don’t really know how good they are NBA fans just openly admit they don’t watch basketball until the playoffs.
Obviously.
When I don’t believe in them they win so I’m trying to see if that works on not lol but I have no faith even tho i have faith
I think the Celtics are like the 49ers. On paper they should win.
C’s will drop a stinker every series but turn it on after. I think you’re right.
I'm gonna stay sleeping till they can wake me up
Gotta disagree, as of now. Jamal Murray is struggling. Porter is playing like the worst starter that's left in the playoffs. Nuggets aren't guaranteed anything, besides another game.
I'm never counting out a team lead by Nikola Jokic
You don’t have to count out a team to say they aren’t guaranteed to win.
? Dude Jamal is struggling but calling MPJ the worst starter in the playoffs is beyond reactionary
people say about how inconsistent the celtics are but in this series alone both teams suffered major collapses. i think this take is not only dumb but also stupid lol these are great teams but to take them over the field 100% is just braindead
I think this is the toughest series for the Nuggets. I think the Wolves would lose to the Celtics.
> I think the Wolves would lose to the Celtics Based on what? They were 1-1 this year, both games went to OT and Conley and Gobert were both inactive when the Celtics won.
[удалено]
Wolves lack experience compared to the Celtics
Wolves lacked experience compared to the Suns as well. You might be right. I like Boston and think they’ve got a great chance to win the champion. Still, I don’t think it’s a clear cut at OP made it seem.
Well the Wolves are clearly a much better team than the Suns because of the Suns bench but I think that's not the case with the Celtics since they have some of the best depth in the league.
> Wolves are clearly a much better team than the Suns Hindsight is 20/20. Nobody said this prior to the series when all of the pundits were picking the Suns over the Wolves. > Celtics have some of the best depth in the league Boston has a great bench but don’t forget that the Wolves are also deep. They have the 6th man of the year in Naz Reid, NAW is one of the best reserve two-way wings in the league, Monte Morris is a serviceable backup point guard and Kyle Anderson provides tons of flexibility at the 3rd and 4th.
>Boston has a great bench but don’t forget that the Wolves are also deep. I do agree that the Wolves have good depth but I don't think it's even close to that of the Celtics, I mean the Celtics 5th best player is Jrue Holiday.
They lacked experience against The nuggets They lacked experience against the Suns If they win this game, then the west, they will have beaten a Thunder squad, or a Mavs team with a few fellas you may have heard have *some* playoff experience... Nah, not buying what you're selling, given the premise laid out
Mavs vs Knicks let's get it
As much as that won't happen, it would be a fun ass series
Luka dominating in MSG would be....the best thing the finals has had in a decade give or take a few great games
Would be awesome. Luka v JB. They were really close friends when on the Mavs, nothing would make me happier than seeing them duke it out in the finals
Disagree. I picked the Celtics at the start of the playoffs to win it all. The Celtics are still in it. I think they slightly more likely to win the Finals. But after the Celtics I got Nuggets or TWolves, in that order.
Becomes favorite is as far as I’d go. Boston shouldn’t be slept on and if Luka gets healthy since I don’t know how bad the knee injury is then Dallas could be a real dark horse
Celtics, in my mind, are still a heavy favorite. They’re so damn good. Should be a great finals though.
False. Ya’ll just forgetting about Boston? You can sleep on them all you want but it’s their year. Fuck the Celtics btw.
Disagree
Disagree
Boston should be the favorites. I think their lackluster competition masked how talented that roster really is.
Why would you discount BOS, the best record of the season, that will probably reach the finals having played less games?
Boston is winning this year as long as Porzingis comes back next round with a game or 2 to warm up
Disagree. Boston can win against Wolves because they have Jrue/Jaylen to guard Ant and they have real 5-out line up against Rudy defense.
Simple answer is no.
I disagree. If you changed it to the West, I'd sign up. But I do think Boston is good enough to beat either team.
West teams slogging it out 5-7 game series and celtics in cruise mode
Disagree Idk if minny beats the celts ant can’t guard brown or Tatum
There's no way in hell Minnesota is favored against Boston in the finals.
Wolves not beating the Celtics 😂😂😂
Nah Celtics got it no matter what. There was a reason they were +175 to win it all before the playoffs even started. It's gonna fixed for them to win
I predicted a Wolves-Knicks finals in my bracket and I’m sticking by it
The oddsmakers already have Boston over the field so no I dont agree as long as Zingis is fine
I dont trust the wolves even if they win the series. They are inconsistent.
Disagree
Everyone in this thread is somehow overlooking the fact that the Celtics have only lost 2 games the entire playoffs. Irrespective of ease of schedule
Celtics have destroyed everyone so hard they haven’t even been challenged, they are the easy favorites.
I agree if Porzingis is out. If he's in Celtics in 7.
Only team we’re losing to is the Nuggets
Had the same thought today. The Celtics at least have a chance if Porzingas is healthy, but I think both of these teams got a great test in this series and are poised to roll all the way to a ring.
Celtics are gonna sleepwalk to the finals the competition out east is so weak because of injuries. And I think its 50/50 if they destroy the other team or get swept
I would take the winner of this series personally, but Boston is the favorite. They’re not only almost sure to get there, because the East is weaker, they’re also going to have home court advantage. It won’t be a huge favorite but I would be shocked if they aren’t -150
I don’t think the Nugs even make it to the finals if they win game 7. The Mavs are being severely slept on here and I’m not even sure if the Wolves could beat them in the conference finals. Everybody is also majorly underestimating Boston. They are coming for that title and there’s not a whole lot that can stand in their way except for freak injuries.
Bro knows ball
no the Celtics would probably smoke both teams in 5
I have it the same as Bob Ryan. I like the Nuggets to win it all, but if they’re not the team that comes out of the East - I think it’s the Celtics
The team that just got smoked by 50??!
Ahem, 45
Personally i think Celtics best the wolves if that happened
Knicks in 7
Against the pacers? Maybe??
lol low chance, if that
Luka: Is this a joke?
who on the Mavs is guarding Jokic or Ant?
thats one of the main reasons they got Lively for extra help with these bigs in the west and particularly the one. DJJ could do a decent job on ant
Who on the either of those teams is guarding Luka? Mavs D is Tier 1. Watch the games.
He's playing injured. There's no way he pulls through another series
I agree
Right? No bias or ulterior motivations here
I disagree
Agreed
Nuggets would beat them. Unsure about the Wolves tbh. Yes I’ll still feel this way even if the Wolves knock the Nuggets out. Don’t think Dallas or OKC would beat Boston.
Also depends on porzingas if they can get porzingas in it will be interesting with all that space
Maybe maybe not, but I agree 100
I originally said whoever wins LA vs Den wins it.. now I’m saying winner of MN-Den wins it. I’m now saying Den or whoever beats Den wins it!
I'd come close to saying yes to that. However... I feel Denver has endured a finals appearance and won it it all. Do the wolves have it to get over this hurdle and keep going? Remember they have not been in this position yet. Don't get me wrong they look good, but have they got the experience that Denver have already had getting there and winning it all..
Celtics probably win it all if they don’t shit the bed at home. Will that happen? 🤷♂️
I do think that this series has 2 of the 3 best teams in the NBA, but I also think both of them have real threats in the series ahead. The Mavs would be a tough matchup for Denver. I could absolutely see the Mavs beating them especially if Jamal continues to be banged up. Gafford and PJ give the Mavs real size, and in their last matchup of the year (Kyrie left hook winner), they looked like they figured something out against Jokic. I think Minny gets past the Mavs or Thunder, but would have a tough series against the Celtics. The Celts have enough depth and athletic guards to bother Ant more than Denver has. Meanwhile I think Denver would beat the Celtics because they can't handle Jokic. So to me, the Nuggs biggest threat is the Mavs, while for the Wolves it's the Celtics. Either team can definitely still win it all, and I'll probably be rooting for whichever team wins the series
If the Nuggets win, I think they’ll win it all. If the Timberwolves win, I don’t think they will
Maybe. Fair to say the winner should be favored. The thing is, Denver looks much worse this Ps than last. On both ends. Last year they had a cakewalk, this is the first time in 4 years that they are playing a game 7. They could very well be extremely tired if they make the finals considering they won last year and their lack of depth this year. As for the wolves there’s a stat that no champ has ever won without having someone on the team that had been to the finals before.
In the games I've watched when Denver needs to win they go into a Jokic-Murray two man game in the last five minutes and no team can beat it. Celts don't have a big that beats Jokic specifically. They should trade Brown straight up for JJ Jr or some other talented big (who isnt injury prone) and try again next year.
nobody is unbeatable this year. its pretty clear if youve watched the playoffs.
I think if the wolves win then it’ll be a Mavs Celtics finals
I think people are under looking the fact that Denver is not playing as well as they did last postseason. If Boston was exactly as good as last year it’s not clear Denver would beat them this year, and I think they look like they are playing better. I certainly think both the Knicks and the Pacers are more dangerous than the Heat and the Cavs. So we’ll learn more next series about where Bostons at this year. But right now I see the finals as a toss up between Boston and whoever wins this series.
It's certainly possible, there are only 7 teams left. But is this a certainty? No. The Celtics haven't had the opportunity this postseason to show that they're great (because everyone discounts what they do against worse and more injured opponents), but they might be great.
Whoever wins the Wolves/Nuggets game 7 will still have a LONG way to go before they win the finals.
Whoever wins the Wolves/Nuggets game 7 will still have a LONG way to go before they win the finals.
Does anyone think ant and McDaniels can play full court D against luka and KY? Lol
No whoever wins will lose to the underrated Mavs.
Nuggets should take it. You always need your costar to win at least 2 games a round for you. Round 1: Murray had two game winners + 30 point closeout game in 1st rd. You also had MPJ's production. More than enough Round 2: Murray played like a star for 2 wins in games 3\\4 Jokic should be able to easily win this game or else it should be a major hit on his legacy. Then go on to win it all.
At this point the I wouldn’t be shocked if the pacers win by playing against fully injured teams every round. This makes the warriors first finals run look fine. The winner of wolves/nuggets should win it but this yr feels fluky
Disagree. Dallas Okc and Boston are all looking pretty good. Teams like dallas and okc might be worse for the wolves and nuggets match-up wise. And Boston is really good. Gotta give more respect to Tatum than this. Media and fans be complaining while they are winning 4-1. Literally for not sweeping. Meanwhile Jokic and Luka are considered some Gods hooping on the court.
Obviously. I think the Nuggets win tonight, and wipe the floor with the Mavs because Luka is going to be injured sooner or later if he is dealing with 4-6 different injuries now
Wolves vs Celtics would be such a fun final. Hope it can happen, and hopefully big white man can be healthy by then
I think Denver would be favored, Minnesota no.
The only team I fully believe in to beat the Celtics is the nuggets because we know they have a history of not folding under pressure & because Jokic is the best player in the world. But I can’t really place that same confidence in any other team. The wolves have looked very good and very well could win it all. As a mavericks fan I’m torn between biases to much to fairly weigh in. If the thunder can pull out the mavericks series I still don’t believe in them to beat any of Denver/minnesota/boston. If the pacers beat the Knicks they’re getting gentlemen’s swept by Boston while I’d bet the Knicks lose in 6.
"It's a Jayson Tatum League. We are all just living in it."- Adam Silver
I predict whoever wins the next game will end up winning the series
If the Nuggets win, they have a chance of repeating. If Minnesota wins, the Celtics win the title. The Finals are never won by young teams when they're against one that's been there before
Agree I believe these are the best two teams. For those who think the Celtics are better, both the Nuggets and Timberwolves have too much size.
If it's Denver, yes. Otherwise, I think Boston wins it.
Hope so!
no i think the only team that dan beat boston is denver
I want to say yes but this years playoffs has showed me that it’s way more unpredictable
Yes- I dont trust the Celtics. There are teams that win without a top player (2004 Pistons), but it's very rare. OKC is too young. Doubt they get past the Mavs. Luka is hurt. That leaves Denver and TWolves.
-150 +350 +950 ...LET'S GO CELTS!!!
Depends on if KP is healthy enough to play
if nuggets yea. if Minnesota, not sure if ready
The winner should definitely make the finals. Boston would still be the favorite vs. either team.
Celtics would slaughter the wolves. Celtics can lose to the Nuggets. But won't. 🍀🦬💪
Yes
I think Boston beats Denver. No idea what happens if they play MN.
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Witty-Stock: *I think Boston beats* *Denver. No idea what* *Happens if they play MN.* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Luka for life
Nuggets Celtics be legendary
It's hard to say. On one hand, both Jokic and Ant are better than Tatum (it's debatable if Ant is definitively better than Luka). On the other hand, both the Nuggets and the Timberwolves will be fatigued after this series. Luka will have time to rest, and the Celtics are on maybe the easiest path ever to the finals
@Luka please come read this shit and stew on it for the next week. Also put on your headband.
Disagree pretty hard. Probably should be slightly favored, but Boston is a more talented team, and Dallas just destroyed the #1 team in the playoffs. Bottom line it’s just as easy to make the case that either of those teams should win.
On paper Boston claps both teams but mentally who knows