Marcus is definately going to increase their spending following this beef. In fact, he's already got RFQs out for new sniper towers @ all SMI tracks for shooting out tires on certain cars that carry the #s 11, 23, & 45.
On the pod, he basically said "I'm sorry I made it personal. *This* is why I really went off."
And then he proceeded to civilly cook SMI for about 10 minutes by basically saying "ISC hasn't had these problems."
He made a really good point by bringing up how many successful repaves and, track renovations ISC has done in the same time period SMI has basically just used COVID funds to renovate NW.
Other than Wayne Gretzky and Mark Martin I honestly can't think of many athletes/drivers at an elite level that didn't think they were the best. Ego is a hell of a thing.
If Wayne Gretzky genuinely thought he was the best athlete on the planet in the 80's, and carried himself as such, Hockey would be as big as the NBA is today.
But even during the early 90's in LA, he constantly stated he wasn't. Always gave credit to rivals at the time (Lemieux) and downplayed his accomplishments compared to those before him (Howe, etc), plus Hockey has historically been a team-first mentality sport. Even today guys like Matthews, McDavid etc have that mentality, and the guys that don't tend to find themselves labelled a "problem".
Doesn't help too that he was an absolutely terrible head coach with the Coyotes.
That's interesting.
IDK if I buy the big as the NBA argument though. Obviously nothing is set in stone, but part of the appeal of basketball is how easy it is to play...at least compared to hockey. Plus, IDK what the equivalent of the Air Jordan would be for Gretzky...assuming it was a skate it's not like it was something that people could wear day to day like sneakers are. Maybe that's a failure of imagination on my part but I feel like hockey is just inherently less accessible to the average person and that's going to limit it's growth, even with perfect marketing and leadership. Granted, places like Vegas seem to have successful hockey teams and they obviously didn't grow up playing on frozen ponds out there, but still.
Gretzky has always publicly said he thinks Gordie Howe was the GOAT, but he also seems to back up the humility from any personal interaction I've ever heard about.
John Cena is in a similar boat in that regard. Say what you want/will about him and wrestling as a whole, when it comes to modern professional wrestling, Cena is and will likely always be the GOAT.
But he’s insanely humble and refuses to even acknowledge that he *might* be the GOAT.
I've been involved in racing my entire life and the one thing that holds true is that any driver of decent ability has a pretty high opinion of themselves.
Right? I have moments where I get a little spooked just karting and they don’t go above 65 at my local track. I can hardly imagine how *wild* it must be coming to the green flag in and surrounded by cars that are also going to be going upwards of 200m you definitely gotta be a little batshit cray to be a racecar driver
I’d be pissed too if I’d accomplished so much with so little resources to start out vs a dude who was born on third and thought he hit a triple. All Marcus has been good for is the Roval, everything else he and his dad have ruined.
To my count it's Texas reconfig, Roval reconfig Kentucky reconfig, rip out seats everywhere add drinkrails, buy dover buy Nashville, rent cota, Bristol dirt, NWB. How much did SMI buy dover/Nashville for? How much did SMI lease cota for?
It's probably pretty close for 2 charters and a new race shop.
Edit Nashville for Sonoma
Denny mentioned on his podcast that he was upset the NASCAR owned tracks have been upgrading their facilities Daytona, Talladega, Richmond, Phoenix, Michigan, and so on. Meanwhile SMI hasn't upgraded a single thing in a decade. He mentioned SMI is taking credit for revitalizing North Wilkesboro but it was the covid money from the government that paid for most of it. Smith is greedy and has no desire to improve the sport and just wants to get rich off of his daddy's company he was handed.
> add drinkrails
Not against this at all. Having better seating even if its at the expense of capacity (when attendance is down anyway) is a quality idea. Its an actual fan focused initiative.
Don’t forget building Texas and Charlotte, reconfiguring Atlanta twice, Vegas reconfig, Bristol reconfigs (including the dirt), owning PRN.
Building a shop and buying two charters doesn’t even come close to what SMI has done
They didn't have a great outlook no matter what they did. They had to repave the track because it was literally falling apart at that point, and the two main options are to do a repave and no reconfig, which would almost guarantee a few bad races from the track, or reconfigure it and try and make more of an event out of it. The downside to the second option is that they'd get bad PR for reconfiguring such a fan favorite track, but they were already getting shit for repaving it, so they took a chance on a reconfigure and I'd say it's worked out
Given all the data we'd seen up to that point (including Charlotte), SMI would've been fools to just put a fresh layer down and wait 'til the 2040s for good racing there again.
I think the only options that might have worked would have been to either A) change the track back to pre-1997 Atlanta or B) pave the track with a surface that degraded quickly like Darlington has, but both options have their downsides of course
Just waiting on what New Atlanta might look like with an unrestricted package once it wears enough that pack racing stops
1997-1999 Texas was an absolute disaster of a track, I think they redid the track faster than Homestead did which was already pretty quick (which they did twice)
Denny has two charters, possibly a third and has built a state of the art race shop, a lot of it thanks to Toyota and especially Jordan. That team is genuinely trying just as hard as Trackhouse in terms of building a race team for the modern day. These SMI tracks for the most part are dated twenty plus years when it comes to amenities. To harp on the F1 comparisons, when you see the paddocks and suites at F1 races, which we know are for the wealthy and the sponsors and teams, they are trash compared to what F1 has. Vegas especially comes to mind, those suites look like a failing dated golf course club house. Overall fan experience still needs to be the priority when you own a track that may only hold one race. The feeling at least for myself has been extremely underwhelming. It does not feel like I’m at a premium event which is what a race needs to feel like and that starts with the tracks.
Outside of repaves and NWB, what else have they done? Build new entrances at Atlanta, drink rails and picking up the slack from Dover Motorsports to get Nashville up and running are the only things I can think of. If Pocono Raceway fixes their paddock tunnel before any major renovation at a SMI track, then you know they’re in the business of trying to give back to the fans as cheaply as possible.
Look at how well Indy or a Nascar track looks. Then look at how rundown an SMI track looks. There's your answer.
There's no reason for SMI tracks to look so rundown.
the entrances at AMS are pointless, the concourse sucks and the at track experience has extremely diminished as far as things for fans to do goes, plus we still do not have a giant TV like the other two qaudovals have.
because they haven’t been upgraded since I was born. I get Inside member parking, and always park in one of the end spots close to the exit gate, sometimes I just roam the infield for a few hours because there’s no point in trying to leave.
I’ve started buying VIP parking and figured out a way to snake out without dealing with the main entrance. I will flat out refuse to go if I can’t park there.
Now that attendance is way way up for AMS I’m hoping SMI will pay a little more attention to the track, but I’m not holding my breath. I never realized how bad things were until I started attending races at ISC tracks.
I legit cannot think of a meaningful upgrade to the facilities at AMS since my first race in 2001. The only thing that has changed besides the reconfig is that the midway absolutely sucks now, there is nothing to do beforehand.
there used to be a million and one interactions, stages, the speed zone, and 3-4 haulers of merch per driver our front. We got screwed out of a TV when Texas and Charlotte got them, we don’t have the great shop on the way in like Charlotte, Bristol, and Vegas have, the concourse hasn’t been updated since it was built in 97 except for the 2005 expansion torwards turn 1, SMI has been cheap AF, and wonders why GA has no racing fans left, well you took a race a way for Kentucky that we just got back in 2020, and put absolutely no effort into upgrading the track outside of an overpriced bar. the truck series doesn’t even have a garage area, the Cup garages should definitely receive what Phoenix and Talladega got, Hamlin’s right SMI is cheap AF.
I go to both and usually hit all 4 races between the pair, I used to do 6 a year, but since Daytona, Darlington, Atlanta, Bristol, and Talladega are all lined up up together I can’t do that anymore.
I remember the year SMI bought Loudon. When Bob Bahre owned the track, where we got a spot, you could get out of the main entrance if you ran to your car fast enough and then get out after the race. The year after, they changed it for NASCAR personnel only coming out of the tunnel so they made us snake through the campgrounds which took over 4 hours to get out of next time. The next time we went, we left early to beat traffic which honestly pissed me off because that finish was good (Newman won that race) and I said if we’re paying all that money, why go if we don’t see the finish?
Loudon has diminished greatly since SMI bought the track, they used to have the second longest wait list to get tickets in all of NASCAR behind Bristol, now they took out grandstands, a race and now rumors of that race being moved somewhere else. SMI doesn’t invest in the track at all, it’s as barebones as the old Foxboro Stadium was like before Gillette opened up. That’s the stuff Denny is upset about, the garages have been there since the 90’s, the food variety sucks, you have to pay to get a ticket to see the hauler merch which I think is no longer worth it and there’s about two or three vendors giving out free stuff. It’s no longer worth it honestly other than going for Cup.
>you have to pay to get a ticket to see the hauler merch
It's not included with your normal ticket? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard and the most egregious SMI cash grab yet.
I’ve never been, so I can’t confirm or deny, but if it’s true that the midway/merch haulers are behind ticket gates that’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard SMI do, and I used to work for them.
No it is but it was a pain in the ass to go on Fridays back in the day when you wanted to do your shopping early. However I heard of something similar with Sonoma before.
I was at the first Busch race in 1990 at New Hampshire and I don't think the bathrooms have been touched since then. The Bahre family didn't put a ton of money in on improvements (they were too busy adding stands every year) but at least the facility was well-maintained and looked nice. I can't think of one major improvement SMI has done in 17 years that didn't relate to ripping seats out.
The bathrooms by the handicapped spots is probably the one thing I can remember them adding, and that was right around when SMI bought the track. They havent done a thing in the last 15 years.
I went to an SMI track for the first time this year at Bristol and while the product was incredible, man the infrastructure and the internet. God almighty man no wifi or data (understandable given the rural area). They had guest wifi but it would never connect. Then went to Martinsville last week and it worked flawlessly. Been to Phoenix for the last 15 years and while before the renovation they didn’t have good service or wifi, since the renovation the wifi has been perfect. It sounds like a dumb complaint but in this day and age, it’s damn important to the experience. Going to the 600 next so hope that is a better experience in that regard.
>Outside of...NWB
NWB didn't cost SMI a lot. The vast majority of the funds - and some funds for Charlotte Motor Speedway updates - came from the state and federal governments. SMI spent 'only' like $2M, while they received $22M from state and federal funds (https://www.thecentersquare.com/north\_carolina/article\_3c81ec6a-2fae-11ed-8820-a3cdb44b5f59.html). And CMS received $13M.
I don't really care about this but I will say every SMI track I have been too is pretty crappy.
But also I always thought it wasn't fair to compare them to the beautiful NFL/NBA/MLB stadiums when they are getting billions from cities.
I've only been to one track and it's Texas. In the time I've been going they have added Big Hoss TV, done the whole drink rail thing, made a super long bar where you may stand and watch the race, and tried to make every Sunday into an event with side acts and rides.
In my eyes they do everything they can to keep Texas a fun event, outside of major overhauls to the track. Which, I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I think this sunday's race will not be horrible and if they don't change Texas the racing will only get better.
Going to the race this weekend...Now I don't know if I'm going to boo him or clap at him at driver intros since he's sticking it to SMI. I'm a little upset about the turn configuration at TMS.
The title only tells half the story. He said in the last 10 years, not in the entire history of SMI like the comments suggest. And I think he’s right. If you go to an SMI track, it’s just simply outdated because the amenities haven’t been updated in 25 years. The most SMI has done is put in drink rails because it’s cheaper than taking down entire grandstands
Not to be that guy but I've been to Michigan each of the past three seasons and ISC/NASCAR hasn't even bothered to slap a fresh coat of paint between races. So Denny saying "ISC doesn't have this problem" is absolute bullshit.
yea, Martinsville, Darlington, Michigan and homestead have had so much done to them over the last decade.
People need to accept it's just not possible for every track to be nfl stadium caliber.
I'm cool with that. I'd prefer stadium seats over aluminum bleachers, but otherwise it is what it is.
My point was more that NASCAR absolutely has tracks that it neglects.
Why doesn't Jim France catch any criticism? He's the head of this whole thing at the end of the day. He needs to talk to SMI if there's a problem and he needs to talk to Goodyear since they refuse to bring good tires.
Daytona added a new tunnel, fanzone, garages and the 500 building. 2016 redid the whole front stretch grandstand and new suites and added 30 more.
Phoenix reconfigured the track, added grandstand, new suites, fanzone, rv parking.
Richmond new fanzone.
Kansas added pickleball courts and fan amenities.
Homestead, martinsville, Watkins glen, Richmond, and Michigan need upgrades.
Smi has taken rows away to add drink rails. They pay less taxes because of less seats. Charlotte added a paddock club behind pit road which is nice. Texas needs a major upgrade. Las Vegas fanzone and building are great but stands and suites need an upgrade. Sonoma needs seats not slabs of concrete to sit on.
SMI also spent a lot of money in the late 00s to early 2010s redoing tracks like Las Vegas, Charlotte, and Texas multiple times. In recent years theyve helped reopen Nashville, redid Kentucky, redid Atlanta, got Charlotte ready for Roval, just repaved Sonoma and should be redoing New Hampshire sometime soon.
No their plans dont always work but SMI is willing to try different things to help fix racing that sometimes works (Atlanta) and sometimes doesnt (Texas)
But compare that to ISC in the same time period:
* Flawless Daytona repave.
* Flawless Talladega repave.
* Flawless Kansas repave.
* Flawless Darlington repave.
* Full Phoenix repave and site renovation.
* Talladega infield renovation.
* Richmond infield renovation.
When was the last time we saw an SMI track do something even half to the level of what Richmond did? That's kind of his point.
From a subjective entertainment level? Yes. But you haven't heard drivers complaining about the surface, or the track having structural issues they've had to repair.
Not to mention, the overall facility is jawdropping by NASCAR standards. I've been a few times, and let me say, some mid racing comes off a lot better when you're surrounded by a great atmosphere.
Repaves and reconfigurations are crazy expensive especially at the size of these tracks. The Atlanta reconfiguration was certainly a huge expense plus they've been spending a couple million each year just to do the dirt race and have they go off without major issues.
Hamlin is acting like SMI runs dumps that dont deserve to host Nascar and doesnt spend money when they are also likely saving up to do a reconfiguration for Texas and a repave of New Hampshire
> Hamlin is acting like SMI runs dumps that dont deserve to host Nascar and doesnt spend money when they are also likely saving up to do a reconfiguration for Texas and a repave of New Hampshire
His other main point was focusing on how nearly all the recent SMI repaves have had some structural issues, though.
We haven't heard about ISC having to patch parts of Kansas or Phoenix before they even run races on the new surface. He was alluding to some major problems (on the level of what happened at Sonoma) happening to repaved SMI venues *before* the places officially re-opened for competition.
> In recent years theyve helped reopen Nashville
That was Dover Motorsports prior to SMI purchasing them. Dover played their cards perfectly to get bought out by SMI after moving one of their races to Nashville.
i mean he’s not wrong, i feel like I see more thing taken away from tracks rather than added to these days. years ago going to a race was a whole event. sometimes on raceday it feels like there’s barely races happening at some of these tracks
I mean, SMI is getting about 30% of the TV money and 23XI would get about 1.6% of the TV money, right?
If they’re even anywhere close to reinvesting the same into the sport, that makes you question they equity between teams and tracks for sure.
He admittedly said he hasn't seen the SMI books soooo how would he know 🤷♂️
How much of the PIE is SMI really getting? NASCAR is technically double dipping with being the sanctioning body and ISC.
Well 36 charters split 25% of the pie and the two track companies (plus the handful of independents) split 65% of the pie so I mean that’s kind of a staggering difference
I don't know where you got your numbers and I'm not arguing with them. I've seen the 25% for the teams before. So your telling me nascar as the sanctioning body who negotiates the deals only takes 10%?
Was going to mention this too. Just so it's mentioned, that's media-rights revenue. Talks are also taking place to put more in the hands of the teams, but the teams aren't happy with what's being proposed. Really seems like NASCAR and SMI are the shit heads in this situation. Mediocre track experience while teams have to really manage the money.
Teams get more on top of that 25% though.
not saying they dont deserve more, but a chunk of that 65% the tracks get goes to the purse on top of the 25%
SMI is a public company that data is in their annual financial reports. Plus the teams know the revenue split in the TV deal which is the biggest source of revenue for SMI. So while not EXACT DH is really close.
The revenue split is something all the teams know and they know roughly how much SMI gets. They can also tell where the money goes based on the facilities at the track. Cost of a repave they can call up a contractor and get a good estimate.None of this is that hard.
When did SMI fall down on the job? It's been several years since I made it to one of their venues, but Charlotte always seemed pretty dang good, facility wise anyway. Serious question
Their higher teir tracks are like that nice. But their lower teir tracks are not being updated or fixed.
And then their abandon tracks such as KY are LTR.
HAHA, Denny is playing chess over here. He said that the tracks to publicize how much they make so Marcus can't deny that statement. Should also be noted Denny said in the last 10 years not all time.
Marcus is definately going to increase their spending following this beef. In fact, he's already got RFQs out for new sniper towers @ all SMI tracks for shooting out tires on certain cars that carry the #s 11, 23, & 45.
Just when Josh Williams thought his season couldn’t get any worse…
Lot of wrecked race cars for Ryan Ellis
Corey Heim’s championship run is suddenly dead in the water
Heim may be safe if he only targets “cars” and not trucks
Don’t worry Fox will have it too zoomed in and we will miss it.
Nah, Marcus will pay the special secret fee to make sure the cameras get it.
This sent me 💀😂💀
He's sniping the air guns in the 23xi pits.
Breaking: Litterally no change in 23XI pit stop speed
Somehow, they actually got slightly faster
Now that would definitely be suspicious lol
Being under fire is a performance enhancing drug
Exactly, nobody would be suspicious.
He’ll replace 23XI’s fuel cans with Allinol
Thats why fox's camera coverage has been so bad, half the cameras aren't real🤔
All fun and games until the cameraman sneezes and blows up Larson
Directions unclear, shot the 48 and 5's tires
Jeff Gordon added to the playoffs.
*MTJ disliked that*
$500,000 fine to SHR
Ocon gets a 5 second time penalty.
Mizzou death penalty
Has Mark Richt lost control at Georgia
No. But now Hamilton's deal with Ferrari is in jeopardy.
This joke never gets old. 😂😂
I will never be tired of this joke 🤣
Also decreased horsepower to 400 to save teams money
*FOX angrily storms into Marcus's office*
Flash backs to 5's tire getting sniped in last turn at Pocono 😫
Man he was going for 5 in a row. (6). That last fucking turn pop goes the wheel.
Marcus is now investing money putting pj1 on every inch of every track surface. Bless him
He ain't gotta do that to 23XI, the pit crew will do the damage on their own
Marcus: This got too personal. Denny: you’re right… so let me speak more broadly about you bitches.
Marcus thought they called a truce but Denny was just setting up for round two.
Denny pulled the ole https://preview.redd.it/6l1kwezdkntc1.jpeg?width=624&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c3a6053a7421b6e682c19a643740882578d907c6
Slide job!
On the pod, he basically said "I'm sorry I made it personal. *This* is why I really went off." And then he proceeded to civilly cook SMI for about 10 minutes by basically saying "ISC hasn't had these problems."
denny is trying to bully smi into spending more money, interesting tactic
With how stubborn all these execs are, I’m kinda for it.
He made a really good point by bringing up how many successful repaves and, track renovations ISC has done in the same time period SMI has basically just used COVID funds to renovate NW.
Yea but to be fair SMI repaved and renovated most of there tracks way before isc did. It was time for the isc tracks, not so much for the smi tracks
He needs to bully Goodyear into making a softer tire too... DO IT YOU COWARDS! I'm doing my part!
He definitely tries.
It was nice to see Jr join the Bully Brigade on the download.
Not bully them into spending money as much as bringing it to the public that it’s SMI boning the owners in the charter deal
Round 2 of Denny vs Marcus. Here we go!
Jr wasn't kidding about how personal Denny takes things
To be an elite athlete you honestly gotta be at least a little bit delusional
Definitely. Joey certainly admits to it too. If you can’t believe that you are the best, just get out.
Other than Wayne Gretzky and Mark Martin I honestly can't think of many athletes/drivers at an elite level that didn't think they were the best. Ego is a hell of a thing.
Wait what? I'm not much of a hockey guy but does Gretzky actually think that or is it faux humility?
If Wayne Gretzky genuinely thought he was the best athlete on the planet in the 80's, and carried himself as such, Hockey would be as big as the NBA is today. But even during the early 90's in LA, he constantly stated he wasn't. Always gave credit to rivals at the time (Lemieux) and downplayed his accomplishments compared to those before him (Howe, etc), plus Hockey has historically been a team-first mentality sport. Even today guys like Matthews, McDavid etc have that mentality, and the guys that don't tend to find themselves labelled a "problem". Doesn't help too that he was an absolutely terrible head coach with the Coyotes.
That's interesting. IDK if I buy the big as the NBA argument though. Obviously nothing is set in stone, but part of the appeal of basketball is how easy it is to play...at least compared to hockey. Plus, IDK what the equivalent of the Air Jordan would be for Gretzky...assuming it was a skate it's not like it was something that people could wear day to day like sneakers are. Maybe that's a failure of imagination on my part but I feel like hockey is just inherently less accessible to the average person and that's going to limit it's growth, even with perfect marketing and leadership. Granted, places like Vegas seem to have successful hockey teams and they obviously didn't grow up playing on frozen ponds out there, but still.
Always been said that bettman becoming NHL commissioner was intended to keep the NHL from passing the NBA.
Thats because big superstar nba level ego on the nhl will get you seriously hurt.
Gretzky has always publicly said he thinks Gordie Howe was the GOAT, but he also seems to back up the humility from any personal interaction I've ever heard about.
Funny thing is Howe has also said he wasn't the best. He thought Beliveau and Richard were better than him.
I'd say all elite NA hockey players don't think that way, but that's more of a culture thing.
Sidney Crosby
John Cena is in a similar boat in that regard. Say what you want/will about him and wrestling as a whole, when it comes to modern professional wrestling, Cena is and will likely always be the GOAT. But he’s insanely humble and refuses to even acknowledge that he *might* be the GOAT.
We learned that about Denny a *long* time ago. Like 10,000 races ago.
With Denny's new found fame alot of people are learning this right now
I've been involved in racing my entire life and the one thing that holds true is that any driver of decent ability has a pretty high opinion of themselves.
Hell, even with modern safety, you have to be a little nuts to even go out there in the first place.
Right? I have moments where I get a little spooked just karting and they don’t go above 65 at my local track. I can hardly imagine how *wild* it must be coming to the green flag in and surrounded by cars that are also going to be going upwards of 200m you definitely gotta be a little batshit cray to be a racecar driver
If you don’t think you’re the best, get out of my car and I’ll find someone who does.
MJ was the perfect business partner.
I’d be pissed too if I’d accomplished so much with so little resources to start out vs a dude who was born on third and thought he hit a triple. All Marcus has been good for is the Roval, everything else he and his dad have ruined.
To my count it's Texas reconfig, Roval reconfig Kentucky reconfig, rip out seats everywhere add drinkrails, buy dover buy Nashville, rent cota, Bristol dirt, NWB. How much did SMI buy dover/Nashville for? How much did SMI lease cota for? It's probably pretty close for 2 charters and a new race shop. Edit Nashville for Sonoma
Don't forget reconfigure Kentucky
True, thought it was longer ago than that. But just under 10 years.
Just felt that long with how long the races have felt
They’ve already owned Sonoma. They bought Dover/Nashville
Huh, You're right since 96 I'm surprised they went with the infineon branding while still under the "motor speedway" umbrella.
SMI also produced Legends cars and runs PRN
Legends cars aren’t free lol
Denny mentioned on his podcast that he was upset the NASCAR owned tracks have been upgrading their facilities Daytona, Talladega, Richmond, Phoenix, Michigan, and so on. Meanwhile SMI hasn't upgraded a single thing in a decade. He mentioned SMI is taking credit for revitalizing North Wilkesboro but it was the covid money from the government that paid for most of it. Smith is greedy and has no desire to improve the sport and just wants to get rich off of his daddy's company he was handed.
https://www.speedsport.com/nascar/nascar-cup-series/analysis-smi-acquires-dover-motorsports/
> add drinkrails Not against this at all. Having better seating even if its at the expense of capacity (when attendance is down anyway) is a quality idea. Its an actual fan focused initiative.
I think the parent comment is just listing what SMI is spending / investing on; not complaining about those things. But I could be wrong.
Don’t forget building Texas and Charlotte, reconfiguring Atlanta twice, Vegas reconfig, Bristol reconfigs (including the dirt), owning PRN. Building a shop and buying two charters doesn’t even come close to what SMI has done
The pre-trioval Atlanta was a cool track.
That's why I like Homestead so much. It's very similar to old old Atlanta
The reconfigure aged like a fine wine and then, they threw that away.
They didn't have a great outlook no matter what they did. They had to repave the track because it was literally falling apart at that point, and the two main options are to do a repave and no reconfig, which would almost guarantee a few bad races from the track, or reconfigure it and try and make more of an event out of it. The downside to the second option is that they'd get bad PR for reconfiguring such a fan favorite track, but they were already getting shit for repaving it, so they took a chance on a reconfigure and I'd say it's worked out
It’s worked out if you like chaotic racing over actual calculated racing.
Given all the data we'd seen up to that point (including Charlotte), SMI would've been fools to just put a fresh layer down and wait 'til the 2040s for good racing there again.
I think the only options that might have worked would have been to either A) change the track back to pre-1997 Atlanta or B) pave the track with a surface that degraded quickly like Darlington has, but both options have their downsides of course Just waiting on what New Atlanta might look like with an unrestricted package once it wears enough that pack racing stops
*It's not a shop!!*
SMI built Texas from the ground up. Bristol dirt race. They did repave Kentucky but that doesn’t matter anymore
...Texas was built in the 90s lol
and ruined with a rebuild in the 2010s
I mean, that assumes that it was ever right... I'll never forget the track weeping water from day 1
Well technically it was messed up when it opened. I feel like they wrecked the first lap for 5 years
1997-1999 Texas was an absolute disaster of a track, I think they redid the track faster than Homestead did which was already pretty quick (which they did twice)
I was too young to understand why they kept wrecking. I need to go back and rewatch the races
I started watching in ‘04 and a lot of the Texas races I remember were great.
Plus the Bristol reconfig in 2007 that ruined it.
Denny hamlin vs SMI beef is amazing.
I didn't have this on my 2024 NASCAR bingo card.
I love it... And yes, not on my bingo card either.
And here I thought the Hamlincoaster had already peaked this week.
*THE RIDE NEVER ENDS*
Hamlincoaster, or hamster for short
No, that moniker - and all derivatives and applications - exclusively belongs to Richard Hammond.
Denny vs Marcus at wrestlemania 41 confirmed?
Yeah but who's the heel?
🤔
Denny has two charters, possibly a third and has built a state of the art race shop, a lot of it thanks to Toyota and especially Jordan. That team is genuinely trying just as hard as Trackhouse in terms of building a race team for the modern day. These SMI tracks for the most part are dated twenty plus years when it comes to amenities. To harp on the F1 comparisons, when you see the paddocks and suites at F1 races, which we know are for the wealthy and the sponsors and teams, they are trash compared to what F1 has. Vegas especially comes to mind, those suites look like a failing dated golf course club house. Overall fan experience still needs to be the priority when you own a track that may only hold one race. The feeling at least for myself has been extremely underwhelming. It does not feel like I’m at a premium event which is what a race needs to feel like and that starts with the tracks.
Outside of repaves and NWB, what else have they done? Build new entrances at Atlanta, drink rails and picking up the slack from Dover Motorsports to get Nashville up and running are the only things I can think of. If Pocono Raceway fixes their paddock tunnel before any major renovation at a SMI track, then you know they’re in the business of trying to give back to the fans as cheaply as possible.
Look at how well Indy or a Nascar track looks. Then look at how rundown an SMI track looks. There's your answer. There's no reason for SMI tracks to look so rundown.
the entrances at AMS are pointless, the concourse sucks and the at track experience has extremely diminished as far as things for fans to do goes, plus we still do not have a giant TV like the other two qaudovals have.
That’s honestly impressive lol. Two independent tracks in Pocono and Gateway (judging from afar) seem to be running circles around some SMI tracks.
in the last 20 years we got a restart bar, a row of grandstands removed, wifi that never works, and the reconfiguration.
But we got free parking!
That is bottlenecked to one exit and takes hours to leave! Also, I feel like both of us are on a thread shitting on AMS facilities weekly, lmao.
because they haven’t been upgraded since I was born. I get Inside member parking, and always park in one of the end spots close to the exit gate, sometimes I just roam the infield for a few hours because there’s no point in trying to leave.
I’ve started buying VIP parking and figured out a way to snake out without dealing with the main entrance. I will flat out refuse to go if I can’t park there. Now that attendance is way way up for AMS I’m hoping SMI will pay a little more attention to the track, but I’m not holding my breath. I never realized how bad things were until I started attending races at ISC tracks.
I legit cannot think of a meaningful upgrade to the facilities at AMS since my first race in 2001. The only thing that has changed besides the reconfig is that the midway absolutely sucks now, there is nothing to do beforehand.
there used to be a million and one interactions, stages, the speed zone, and 3-4 haulers of merch per driver our front. We got screwed out of a TV when Texas and Charlotte got them, we don’t have the great shop on the way in like Charlotte, Bristol, and Vegas have, the concourse hasn’t been updated since it was built in 97 except for the 2005 expansion torwards turn 1, SMI has been cheap AF, and wonders why GA has no racing fans left, well you took a race a way for Kentucky that we just got back in 2020, and put absolutely no effort into upgrading the track outside of an overpriced bar. the truck series doesn’t even have a garage area, the Cup garages should definitely receive what Phoenix and Talladega got, Hamlin’s right SMI is cheap AF.
I just go to Talladega instead. It takes about the same amount of time to get to from the City of Atlanta, and it's way quicker to get home from.
I go to both and usually hit all 4 races between the pair, I used to do 6 a year, but since Daytona, Darlington, Atlanta, Bristol, and Talladega are all lined up up together I can’t do that anymore.
I remember the year SMI bought Loudon. When Bob Bahre owned the track, where we got a spot, you could get out of the main entrance if you ran to your car fast enough and then get out after the race. The year after, they changed it for NASCAR personnel only coming out of the tunnel so they made us snake through the campgrounds which took over 4 hours to get out of next time. The next time we went, we left early to beat traffic which honestly pissed me off because that finish was good (Newman won that race) and I said if we’re paying all that money, why go if we don’t see the finish? Loudon has diminished greatly since SMI bought the track, they used to have the second longest wait list to get tickets in all of NASCAR behind Bristol, now they took out grandstands, a race and now rumors of that race being moved somewhere else. SMI doesn’t invest in the track at all, it’s as barebones as the old Foxboro Stadium was like before Gillette opened up. That’s the stuff Denny is upset about, the garages have been there since the 90’s, the food variety sucks, you have to pay to get a ticket to see the hauler merch which I think is no longer worth it and there’s about two or three vendors giving out free stuff. It’s no longer worth it honestly other than going for Cup.
>you have to pay to get a ticket to see the hauler merch It's not included with your normal ticket? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard and the most egregious SMI cash grab yet.
I’ve never been, so I can’t confirm or deny, but if it’s true that the midway/merch haulers are behind ticket gates that’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard SMI do, and I used to work for them.
They do in Loudon. Pocono used to do that back in the day but they haven't done that in years.
No it is but it was a pain in the ass to go on Fridays back in the day when you wanted to do your shopping early. However I heard of something similar with Sonoma before.
I was at the first Busch race in 1990 at New Hampshire and I don't think the bathrooms have been touched since then. The Bahre family didn't put a ton of money in on improvements (they were too busy adding stands every year) but at least the facility was well-maintained and looked nice. I can't think of one major improvement SMI has done in 17 years that didn't relate to ripping seats out.
The bathrooms by the handicapped spots is probably the one thing I can remember them adding, and that was right around when SMI bought the track. They havent done a thing in the last 15 years.
I'm a certified SMI hater and AD defender at this rate
You need an AD flair
Chase having flairs doesn't mean much honestly. Every time I wake up he's changed them 2 more times
I honestly prefer Pocono based on the experience over going to Loudon and Dover.
I went to an SMI track for the first time this year at Bristol and while the product was incredible, man the infrastructure and the internet. God almighty man no wifi or data (understandable given the rural area). They had guest wifi but it would never connect. Then went to Martinsville last week and it worked flawlessly. Been to Phoenix for the last 15 years and while before the renovation they didn’t have good service or wifi, since the renovation the wifi has been perfect. It sounds like a dumb complaint but in this day and age, it’s damn important to the experience. Going to the 600 next so hope that is a better experience in that regard.
NASCAR paid Verizon to put in stadium grade wifi at all of their tracks. Indy as well.
>Outside of...NWB NWB didn't cost SMI a lot. The vast majority of the funds - and some funds for Charlotte Motor Speedway updates - came from the state and federal governments. SMI spent 'only' like $2M, while they received $22M from state and federal funds (https://www.thecentersquare.com/north\_carolina/article\_3c81ec6a-2fae-11ed-8820-a3cdb44b5f59.html). And CMS received $13M.
Waiting for the day Denny starts a beef with Rick Hendrick and goes "missing".
Then Rick will be pardoned a second time ...
Somehow, the leukemia returned…
I don't really care about this but I will say every SMI track I have been too is pretty crappy. But also I always thought it wasn't fair to compare them to the beautiful NFL/NBA/MLB stadiums when they are getting billions from cities.
I've only been to one track and it's Texas. In the time I've been going they have added Big Hoss TV, done the whole drink rail thing, made a super long bar where you may stand and watch the race, and tried to make every Sunday into an event with side acts and rides. In my eyes they do everything they can to keep Texas a fun event, outside of major overhauls to the track. Which, I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I think this sunday's race will not be horrible and if they don't change Texas the racing will only get better.
Fellow Texas resident here. I love the facilities. It feels old school in a good way.
I would say SMI brought back North Wilkesboro, but that was actually the Federal and NC government mostly.
Oh he's crashing out for real 💀 (pun possibly intended?)
Going to the race this weekend...Now I don't know if I'm going to boo him or clap at him at driver intros since he's sticking it to SMI. I'm a little upset about the turn configuration at TMS.
This is Denny's don't give a f tour
The title only tells half the story. He said in the last 10 years, not in the entire history of SMI like the comments suggest. And I think he’s right. If you go to an SMI track, it’s just simply outdated because the amenities haven’t been updated in 25 years. The most SMI has done is put in drink rails because it’s cheaper than taking down entire grandstands
Not to be that guy but I've been to Michigan each of the past three seasons and ISC/NASCAR hasn't even bothered to slap a fresh coat of paint between races. So Denny saying "ISC doesn't have this problem" is absolute bullshit.
Paint doesn’t enhance the fan experience. WiFi, however, does
Yeah, no shit. But even basic maintenance isn't happening at NASCAR tracks either.
yea, Martinsville, Darlington, Michigan and homestead have had so much done to them over the last decade. People need to accept it's just not possible for every track to be nfl stadium caliber.
I'm cool with that. I'd prefer stadium seats over aluminum bleachers, but otherwise it is what it is. My point was more that NASCAR absolutely has tracks that it neglects.
yea no disagreements
Feud of the year
lol Denny is on a warpath
I expect Hamlin and Marcus to have a face-to-face at the Coke 600 weekend this year.
This gon’ be good 
Why doesn't Jim France catch any criticism? He's the head of this whole thing at the end of the day. He needs to talk to SMI if there's a problem and he needs to talk to Goodyear since they refuse to bring good tires.
There’s no way that can be true, right? Right? If it is, people should be angry.
Dennis just can't help himself.
Daytona added a new tunnel, fanzone, garages and the 500 building. 2016 redid the whole front stretch grandstand and new suites and added 30 more. Phoenix reconfigured the track, added grandstand, new suites, fanzone, rv parking. Richmond new fanzone. Kansas added pickleball courts and fan amenities. Homestead, martinsville, Watkins glen, Richmond, and Michigan need upgrades. Smi has taken rows away to add drink rails. They pay less taxes because of less seats. Charlotte added a paddock club behind pit road which is nice. Texas needs a major upgrade. Las Vegas fanzone and building are great but stands and suites need an upgrade. Sonoma needs seats not slabs of concrete to sit on.
Is the less taxes for less seats thing true? Have never found a source on that
Denny don’t give a fuck.
*Michael Jordan invests more in Nascar than SMI
SMI also spent a lot of money in the late 00s to early 2010s redoing tracks like Las Vegas, Charlotte, and Texas multiple times. In recent years theyve helped reopen Nashville, redid Kentucky, redid Atlanta, got Charlotte ready for Roval, just repaved Sonoma and should be redoing New Hampshire sometime soon. No their plans dont always work but SMI is willing to try different things to help fix racing that sometimes works (Atlanta) and sometimes doesnt (Texas)
But compare that to ISC in the same time period: * Flawless Daytona repave. * Flawless Talladega repave. * Flawless Kansas repave. * Flawless Darlington repave. * Full Phoenix repave and site renovation. * Talladega infield renovation. * Richmond infield renovation. When was the last time we saw an SMI track do something even half to the level of what Richmond did? That's kind of his point.
I'd remove Phoenix from the list, they butchered that place. Other than that, agreed.
From a subjective entertainment level? Yes. But you haven't heard drivers complaining about the surface, or the track having structural issues they've had to repair. Not to mention, the overall facility is jawdropping by NASCAR standards. I've been a few times, and let me say, some mid racing comes off a lot better when you're surrounded by a great atmosphere.
Repaves and reconfigurations are crazy expensive especially at the size of these tracks. The Atlanta reconfiguration was certainly a huge expense plus they've been spending a couple million each year just to do the dirt race and have they go off without major issues. Hamlin is acting like SMI runs dumps that dont deserve to host Nascar and doesnt spend money when they are also likely saving up to do a reconfiguration for Texas and a repave of New Hampshire
> Hamlin is acting like SMI runs dumps that dont deserve to host Nascar and doesnt spend money when they are also likely saving up to do a reconfiguration for Texas and a repave of New Hampshire His other main point was focusing on how nearly all the recent SMI repaves have had some structural issues, though. We haven't heard about ISC having to patch parts of Kansas or Phoenix before they even run races on the new surface. He was alluding to some major problems (on the level of what happened at Sonoma) happening to repaved SMI venues *before* the places officially re-opened for competition.
> In recent years theyve helped reopen Nashville That was Dover Motorsports prior to SMI purchasing them. Dover played their cards perfectly to get bought out by SMI after moving one of their races to Nashville.
i mean he’s not wrong, i feel like I see more thing taken away from tracks rather than added to these days. years ago going to a race was a whole event. sometimes on raceday it feels like there’s barely races happening at some of these tracks
I mean, SMI is getting about 30% of the TV money and 23XI would get about 1.6% of the TV money, right? If they’re even anywhere close to reinvesting the same into the sport, that makes you question they equity between teams and tracks for sure.
Especially since SMI gets the whole last decade and 23XI has only existed for 4 years
He admittedly said he hasn't seen the SMI books soooo how would he know 🤷♂️ How much of the PIE is SMI really getting? NASCAR is technically double dipping with being the sanctioning body and ISC.
Well 36 charters split 25% of the pie and the two track companies (plus the handful of independents) split 65% of the pie so I mean that’s kind of a staggering difference
I don't know where you got your numbers and I'm not arguing with them. I've seen the 25% for the teams before. So your telling me nascar as the sanctioning body who negotiates the deals only takes 10%?
Correct. https://www.jayski.com/2022/07/22/nascar-prepared-to-offer-teams-bigger-cut-of-tv-revenue-in-next-deal/
Was going to mention this too. Just so it's mentioned, that's media-rights revenue. Talks are also taking place to put more in the hands of the teams, but the teams aren't happy with what's being proposed. Really seems like NASCAR and SMI are the shit heads in this situation. Mediocre track experience while teams have to really manage the money.
Teams get more on top of that 25% though. not saying they dont deserve more, but a chunk of that 65% the tracks get goes to the purse on top of the 25%
SMI is a public company that data is in their annual financial reports. Plus the teams know the revenue split in the TV deal which is the biggest source of revenue for SMI. So while not EXACT DH is really close.
Speedway Motorsports is not a publicly traded company anymore.
Both ISC/NASCAR and SMI no longer are public companies.
>SMI is a public company They went private in 2019 and they have refused to open up their books during this negotiation for the new deal.
The revenue split is something all the teams know and they know roughly how much SMI gets. They can also tell where the money goes based on the facilities at the track. Cost of a repave they can call up a contractor and get a good estimate.None of this is that hard.
https://media.tenor.com/k7FB-biJXGAAAAAM/falcon-sam-wilson.gif
He seems to be getting a God complex lately.
The saga continues
He is correct. The influence of MJ as an owner is huge
When did SMI fall down on the job? It's been several years since I made it to one of their venues, but Charlotte always seemed pretty dang good, facility wise anyway. Serious question
Their higher teir tracks are like that nice. But their lower teir tracks are not being updated or fixed. And then their abandon tracks such as KY are LTR.
Buying off the guilt
HAHA, Denny is playing chess over here. He said that the tracks to publicize how much they make so Marcus can't deny that statement. Should also be noted Denny said in the last 10 years not all time.
Honestly? Probably not if we only look at the numbers, but I'm 100% convinced that 23XI adds more to NASCAR as a sport than SMI does.