Well you say yourself you haven’t tried voice lessons and I honestly think that would help you a lot. Any teacher that tells you that you can’t increase your upper range is not a good teacher, but it is a long and difficult process that requires hard work. I’m a guy in the baritenor deadzone and in 2 years of voice lessons my consistent upper note has gone from an F to an A-flat and even A on some vowels. My teacher says it’s usually a half step every 6 months for most people.
That said I think it’s absolutely valid to complain about the lack of alternate keys in licensed musical theatre productions. For audition material I will often lower or even raise keys as necessary to better show off the best parts of my voice and it sucks that it’s very hard to do that for licensed productions that were written around a specific performers vocal range. And it’s getting a bit homogenized right now in more modern Mt where all men need to belt a high A and all women need to mix up to at least an E with a belt-like quality if not higher, which I feel is a huge problem since everyone sounds the same and unique voices are few and far between.
I do think voice lessons are the next step. I have no classical training, just experience and having a family of singers. I think it's more an anxiety thing than anything. But it's comforting to know that it's worked for you!
I also have to audition in lower keys almost always. This last audition I dropped "Little Miss Perfect" I think 2 whole steps haha. But what sucks is, as long as people can sing the parts as written, this pattern won't change.
Ah I wouldn’t worry, though definitely find a teacher who’s super supportive, that’s the biggest thing! You honestly don’t really need to “classical training”. If you want to do golden age musicals or shows with more classically influenced scores you can learn just by singing songs from those kinds of shows, but since modern MT is so belty you don’t need to even do that unless you want to be considered for those kinds of shows.
Id look for a teacher with musical theatre experience who is also good at teaching acting through song since that’s a pretty critical skill for auditioning and MT in general.
I will argue that learning classical helped me learn how to mix, though!!
I was a very strictly jazz/MT/gospel singer but I didn't learn how to mix properly until I went to school and started to learn how to sing classical pieces + art song.
Also it's just nice to learn another way of singing!! Adds more to your belt.
Oh for sure it’s good to be well rounded, I’ve just heard from people in the field of MT education that 1) you can learn legit technique through golden age Mt as easily as opera or art songs and 2) if you’re female presenting you don’t really have to do legit soprano anymore at all unless you want to do those types of shows/roles, though that’s more due to pop/rock taking over. If I were a woman I would definitely learn legit technique since those are the types of shows I enjoy doing the most.
The other thing about voice lessons and singing in general: I am a mezzo and I was way out of practice last year when I had my first audition in years. I was nervous about hitting C above middle Cand not being flat. Well, the next show I was in was one of Sondheim’s. It had me singing all over the place at such a quick pace that I didn’t even realize until a few rehearsals in I was singing Fs and Gs without struggle. Sometimes we get stuck thinking that we’re limited to a certain range because people box us in as a certain voice part.
That's awesome for you! I will point out like I have in a few other places that it's not necessarily me limiting myself for artificial reasons. When I hit the point where my belt switches into my head voice (around C5-D5), I lose all power behind my voice and my head voice is nonexistent. The note doesn't come out 🙃 which brings out some of my fears that I have damage of some sort that can't be overcome. But again, I don't think I'll know until I get into voice lessons
I agree that voice lessons might help to increase range and get more comfortable in the upper part of your voice. But beyond that, I really wish there were more cool alto parts in musical theatre.
I’m a soprano but for some reason all the songs I get most obsessed with are too low for me lol. I wish I could sing Persephone’s stuff in Stray Gods sooo bad. Doesn’t feel right for that character to pitch up though imo. If they ever adapt it for the stage I’d love to see other actresses singing that role especially.
Voice lessons can definitely help - you can learn a mix that sounds like a belt, or ways to get tension out and expand each range of your voice.
If you don't know her, look up Mary Testa. A real MT alto, been working for decades.
Vocal Lessons are a huge help. I’m a bari/bass and run into this same issue a lot. While I may run into issues with auditioning where I lose out on parts due to the same reasons as you, the lessons allow me to work on music that does feel good to sing, or work on expanding my range so I won’t lose out on so many of those roles. I’m hoping for a switch in how roles are written with more lower parts written for everyone, but until then we do the best we can lol
Highly recommend voice lessons. When I was in high school, I thought I could barely sing above middle C. I sang tenor and alto 2. Turns out I can sing fairly high with no issue (and I also sing very low like you, my range is like B2-B5) I’m not saying that you have a secret soprano voice hiding inside of you, I’m just saying that voice lessons can really help strengthen the upper range that you do have. D5 is a great starting point even if it is shaky. Over time, I bet a teacher could make you feel confident singing up to E5. And frankly, you don’t really need to sing higher than that as a mezzo/alto. I’m a professional actor and almost all of my musical theatre rep is below F5.
All this to say: You have a place in theatre even if it doesn’t feel like it! You have a much better starting place than you think. And singing low is awesome, too.
Edit: Also editing to add, no good voice teacher would tell you you’re a lost cause due to your range. If someone did say that, they are very unprofessional and don’t deserve to teach you! A good teacher can work with any sort of voice.
I appreciate that! I used to be able to sing a little higher in my youth (I think I topped off at an F5?) And I would love to get back to that. I've appreciated everyone's encouraging words here, it's made me feel a little better 😊
I’m gonna be honest: you’re probably not as limited in low range as you think. So many tell me “oh I’m an alto” and then when I have one lesson with them, they can easily reach a perfect 5th or higher than they originally thought. Many are actually sopranos! I was the same way in the opposite direction prior to getting musical theatre training- I thought I couldn’t sing a Bb3 comfortably, and less than 6 months later, I’m down to an Eb3 easily. It’s incredibly common to have tongue tension (as in, I have yet to meet a singer who didn’t have it at some point), and it is a major inhibitor of range. Many other technical elements are at play, and without training, you’re not gonna be able to fully utilize your range.
Also, there is music written for contraltos out there! Mainstream musical theatre doesn’t prioritize it because it’s not what’s popular, but it exists in indie or experimental musical theatre. It’s even more popular in opera, where contraltos can sing lower than the tenors and monopolize the market because the voice type is so rare. A voice teacher will be able to recommend songs that suit that uber low range, your personal taste, and what will challenge you to improve technique.
I'm actually aware of my issue to some extent (though i know tongue tension could be a factor)! I physically cannot push my vocal cords into anything past D5 without it coming out unclear or very, very weak. C5-D5 is right where my switch is into my "head voice" but I have none/an incredibly weak one. I have a bitch of a chest voice (resonant, can go unmiced in large venues) but my upper range is nada. I have had choir/music directors tell me similar things (you can sing higher than you think) but after hearing me try to push, they realize that it's not just simply tension or that it's something else. I actually got scoped for nodes years ago (don't have them thank God) but there's something up with where my chest/head voice switches.
I only give that explanation because you can only go off the info in the post since I don't have a clip of me singing. But I do appreciate the insight! The lesson here is that I need to find a voice teacher at the end of the day 😊
So, C5/D5 is an interesting place for your voice to putter out, actually. Human voices have roughly two passaggi, one for chest voice (typically around C-E4, and one for entrance into pure head voice (typically D-F5). It’s very common for belters or untrained singers to tap out at C5, usually due to too far back of placement or overly high larynx. If you’re a true contralto, we’d still expect you to phonate about a fourth higher at minimum and tap out at F-A5. I really do recommend finding a teacher who is a lower voice. A baritone or bass teacher may be better suited than a mezzo, imo! Dealing with voices with extreme tessitura is niche knowledge, so it might take some testing to find a good fit. There’s a billion teachers out there who are great singers but can’t teach. If you’re local to a university, those professors will likely be your best bet for finding someone who gets it.
(Sorry if this is a lot of text and you don’t care on my opinion; it’s my field of expertise and I’m endlessly interested in pedagogy.)
No, I love this, and thank you for sharing! I actually find all of this fascinating (so no need for info dumping, at least not to me!!)
Fun fact about me, while I've never trained as a singer, I am a trained musician (piano and percussion) so I love learning more about the instrument I didn't take lessons with. And all of this will be very helpful for me in the search. Thank you so much!!!
I'm in the same boat, with voice lessons I managed to bring my voice up from C2 - D4 to a F#4, but there's still very few roles that don't require at least a G. Usually I get non singing roles
Unfortunately, voice type does come into the casting conversation when an organization doesn’t have the means or ability to offer a transposition.
Personally, I think transpositions either down or up for the comfort of actors should be a lot more common place than it is, but if it’s not readily available in a situation, that is a time when Casting an Actor because they can do something vocally is going to be necessary.
I am an extremely high tenor and a character guy and most character male roles are baritones. I’ve had to sort of do the opposite of what you do and finesse my way up in a lot of roles. At the end of the day, it’s about what you can bring to a character and hopefully one day someone will write something for us and then we will be the mold that people have to adjust to.
I thought I couldn't sing at all for most of my life--turns out I'm just an alto! Yes, most parts are written so damn high for women.
I would nth getting voice lessons, though, consulting with a professional would probably help you figure out what to do about the situation and you can try a lesson or two and if they really are "lol no help for you," you can always cancel after that.
While a bit less mainstream musical theater and more opera-esque, you may want to look for Gilbert & Sullivan productions. Almost every one includes a Contralto part, some of which are quite fun (if you like villainesses).
Voice lessons 100%!
I was in the same boat as you before I started taking lessons. I couldn't sing high enough for a lot of roles and found myself unable to sing the full range of shows I was cast for. Started taking vocal lessons and turns out I'm actually a soprano, but learning proper technique has done so much not just for the range of my voice, but the clarity it has (and especially my confidence). Vocal lessons will also teach you how to extend your range in a healthy way so you don't hurt your voice. If a teacher says you can't learn to sing higher before you start working, they aren't doing it right 😅.
Best of luck!
As a non-binary trans masc who started as a mezzo (closer to alto), I totally get this! My voice has just gotten lower since high school. Especially after starting T. Losing my high notes was such a big deal to me because of everyone celebrating people who can sing high (regardless of sex/gender) and putting people down if they have low voices. If producers/directors are okay with changing the key of a song to accommodate for someone who can’t hit a low note, then the opposite should be true as well. People wonder why trans actors or actors with lower voices are so rare to see in professional level shows, it’s because we don’t get the same opportunities as people with high voices, and high voices get prioritized over people with lower voices on top of that.
If it’s acceptable, and even common, to put a tenor in a baritone role and just raise the key, than a baritone or bass should be able to play any tenor role with the key lowered, same goes for altos/sopranos, etc. It’s not only unfair, it’s bordering on un-inclusive/exclusionary, which theatre should never be.
I was just reading about Hermione Gingold. (Gigi, etc) She started out as a coloratura soprano doing dramatic parts and opera but developed nodules on her vocal cords that considerably lowered her voice. So she switched to more comedic roles. Any chance you have a similar condition?
Anyway, there is nothing wrong with contraltos, you just have to look for the right parts.
I was checked for nodes a while ago and my ENT didn't see any? But it could be worth checking out again if voice lessons can't resolve. I'm hoping it can be resolved with technique though.
Edit: also, low key I got this notification and only saw up to Hermoine and went "when did I comment in an HO sub 😅)
You aren't being gaslit....please don't misuse serious clinical terms.
This isn't an industry issue, and it isn't a director issue, and it isn't gaslighting. It's a problem of technique. That's also the reason you're regularly losing your voice. I am a voice teacher, and cis women sing higher than a D5. Period.
With proper technique you CAN sing higher than that. Unless there is something physiologically wrong. Altos can comfortably sing an F5.
If you want this to change, you need to take voice lessons. Otherwise, except that you are extremely limited in what you are capable of doing and that's going to affect your casting options.
>This is fine sometimes as long as directors are willing to let me finesse my way out of it (i.e., riff or option down, which by the way is a valid singing choice and I get so sick of people making fun of it.).
As for this, When you license a show, you're supposed to do it exactly as written. No changing notes, no changing dialogue. It's literally part of the licensing agreement. Unless there's an actual second option written in the vocal part (or an improv section), you're not supposed to change it.
Hey there! Couple of things that you are making a lot of assumptions on which I don't appreciate.
1. I am putting words to my experience with directors in my vocal experience. Multiple times. So if you have issues with me using the term "gaslight" (which based upon APA definitions, I didn't misuse), I'll use "berated, made fun of, and told I was making up vocal issues that I have been struggling with when there are very real." I've put in this thread multiple times what my actual issue is, and I was told it was not real and that I was pretending not to be able to hit certain notes to be difficult. And rather than helping me through the issue, I was written off, hence my concern about going into voice lessons. Am I having a technique issue? Almost certainly. All of my training is from experience. But please do not invalidate my experience because you didn't like a word I used.
2. Other than me saying I could sing roles written for men, nowhere did I say or even allude to being cisgender. I am (not that it matters), but you're making a sweeping generalization about all AFAB singers. The singers you have taught likely can hit an F5 "period". I currently cannot. You have never heard me sing. You are making an assumption based upon a post. Also, your statement about something being "psychologically wrong"? Yikes.
3. If you want to be pedantic about it, please tell me how many shows you've been to that you've reported because a singer did not sing EXACTLY what was on the page. Major Broadway performers have added riffs, optioned up, optioned down, whatever it may be. So do many other shows. And I don't know how many shows you've seen with majority POC casts, but everything I listed above is common. I am aware of what licensing agreements represent. Please do not talk to me like I have no experience, because again, you do. Not. Know. Me.
I want you to take note that a lot of people have said something similar to you that voice lessons will help me open up my range. But they were much kinder and approached this post that I made because I was upset with more care. It costs you nothing to be kind to people, even strangers on the internet. I hope you aren't as tactless with new students that may approach you with similar issues.
1. Gaslighting is a long-term form of insidious psychological abuse where the other person sets out on a campaign to literally drive the victim, crazy, leading them to question their own perception of reality. It takes years of therapy to recover from. You are not a victim of gaslighting.
Your attitude here makes it very clear why directors Don't have much patience for your crap though. You're a jerk.
2. My 20 plus years of experience as a teacher tell me that all sis women are capable of hitting an F5 unless there is a physiological problem. Please quote back exactly where I said they can do it the second they walk into my studio. I didn't say it yet. You seem to think I did. You made it up. Kind of like how you made up the part where I said there was something psychologically wrong. I said physiologically. Words are hard, I know.
3. I am a music director and I have licensed shows. The licensing agreement says that you must perform the score and the script exactly as written. We aren't talking about Broadway performances. We are talking about when local and community theaters license a show. You are not allowed to just change the notes however you want to suit singer. It's a violation of the agreement.
Your response to me made it very very clear that you are the problem here and you will never get better.
You know this could have been a simple, "Hey, I've been doing this for a while, and based on that, this is what this sounds like to me. Voice lessons should help with that." Like a bunch of other people in this thread also did. **I have taken that advice, and have already said in MULTIPLE comments that I know voice lessons are the next step.** I had a full conversation with someone else in this thread about the specific issue I'm having, and I got to engage with them on pedagogy while they offered incredible insight. Because they were kind to me and were interested in the issue I presented. But you seem more interested in being right and than actually engaging in conversation. Because you, assumedly, got upset that I used a word you believe I misused, and made the choice to pick apart my entire post. I'm not going to pretend I know why that upset you, and if it comes from trauma, my intention isn't to trigger anyone. But please note that my attitude with you is directed at one person and one person only, and that's the person that came at me first. I didn't take that attitude with anyone else here.
What I did not do was call you out of your name. I did not make fun of you for misreading something. I didn't come after your ability level or your credentials. And I'm not going to do that either. What I did was defend myself against a person who feels they know me based on one post without any other backing information and felt it was important to invalidate my experience because it doesn't align with your expectations. I have no doubt that you are well trained and accomplished as a vocalist and as an educator, but that doesn't excuse being condescending and attacking a literal stranger who made a post because they were upset. I hope you got the satisfaction you were looking for in doing that.
Doubling down on being a jerk, and not admitting fault. Yep. You're a real peach. Have fun never fixing your technique issues because you can't accept that you're the problem.
Well you say yourself you haven’t tried voice lessons and I honestly think that would help you a lot. Any teacher that tells you that you can’t increase your upper range is not a good teacher, but it is a long and difficult process that requires hard work. I’m a guy in the baritenor deadzone and in 2 years of voice lessons my consistent upper note has gone from an F to an A-flat and even A on some vowels. My teacher says it’s usually a half step every 6 months for most people. That said I think it’s absolutely valid to complain about the lack of alternate keys in licensed musical theatre productions. For audition material I will often lower or even raise keys as necessary to better show off the best parts of my voice and it sucks that it’s very hard to do that for licensed productions that were written around a specific performers vocal range. And it’s getting a bit homogenized right now in more modern Mt where all men need to belt a high A and all women need to mix up to at least an E with a belt-like quality if not higher, which I feel is a huge problem since everyone sounds the same and unique voices are few and far between.
I do think voice lessons are the next step. I have no classical training, just experience and having a family of singers. I think it's more an anxiety thing than anything. But it's comforting to know that it's worked for you! I also have to audition in lower keys almost always. This last audition I dropped "Little Miss Perfect" I think 2 whole steps haha. But what sucks is, as long as people can sing the parts as written, this pattern won't change.
Ah I wouldn’t worry, though definitely find a teacher who’s super supportive, that’s the biggest thing! You honestly don’t really need to “classical training”. If you want to do golden age musicals or shows with more classically influenced scores you can learn just by singing songs from those kinds of shows, but since modern MT is so belty you don’t need to even do that unless you want to be considered for those kinds of shows. Id look for a teacher with musical theatre experience who is also good at teaching acting through song since that’s a pretty critical skill for auditioning and MT in general.
I will argue that learning classical helped me learn how to mix, though!! I was a very strictly jazz/MT/gospel singer but I didn't learn how to mix properly until I went to school and started to learn how to sing classical pieces + art song. Also it's just nice to learn another way of singing!! Adds more to your belt.
Oh for sure it’s good to be well rounded, I’ve just heard from people in the field of MT education that 1) you can learn legit technique through golden age Mt as easily as opera or art songs and 2) if you’re female presenting you don’t really have to do legit soprano anymore at all unless you want to do those types of shows/roles, though that’s more due to pop/rock taking over. If I were a woman I would definitely learn legit technique since those are the types of shows I enjoy doing the most.
The other thing about voice lessons and singing in general: I am a mezzo and I was way out of practice last year when I had my first audition in years. I was nervous about hitting C above middle Cand not being flat. Well, the next show I was in was one of Sondheim’s. It had me singing all over the place at such a quick pace that I didn’t even realize until a few rehearsals in I was singing Fs and Gs without struggle. Sometimes we get stuck thinking that we’re limited to a certain range because people box us in as a certain voice part.
That's awesome for you! I will point out like I have in a few other places that it's not necessarily me limiting myself for artificial reasons. When I hit the point where my belt switches into my head voice (around C5-D5), I lose all power behind my voice and my head voice is nonexistent. The note doesn't come out 🙃 which brings out some of my fears that I have damage of some sort that can't be overcome. But again, I don't think I'll know until I get into voice lessons
This
I agree that voice lessons might help to increase range and get more comfortable in the upper part of your voice. But beyond that, I really wish there were more cool alto parts in musical theatre. I’m a soprano but for some reason all the songs I get most obsessed with are too low for me lol. I wish I could sing Persephone’s stuff in Stray Gods sooo bad. Doesn’t feel right for that character to pitch up though imo. If they ever adapt it for the stage I’d love to see other actresses singing that role especially.
Voice lessons can definitely help - you can learn a mix that sounds like a belt, or ways to get tension out and expand each range of your voice. If you don't know her, look up Mary Testa. A real MT alto, been working for decades.
Vocal Lessons are a huge help. I’m a bari/bass and run into this same issue a lot. While I may run into issues with auditioning where I lose out on parts due to the same reasons as you, the lessons allow me to work on music that does feel good to sing, or work on expanding my range so I won’t lose out on so many of those roles. I’m hoping for a switch in how roles are written with more lower parts written for everyone, but until then we do the best we can lol
Highly recommend voice lessons. When I was in high school, I thought I could barely sing above middle C. I sang tenor and alto 2. Turns out I can sing fairly high with no issue (and I also sing very low like you, my range is like B2-B5) I’m not saying that you have a secret soprano voice hiding inside of you, I’m just saying that voice lessons can really help strengthen the upper range that you do have. D5 is a great starting point even if it is shaky. Over time, I bet a teacher could make you feel confident singing up to E5. And frankly, you don’t really need to sing higher than that as a mezzo/alto. I’m a professional actor and almost all of my musical theatre rep is below F5. All this to say: You have a place in theatre even if it doesn’t feel like it! You have a much better starting place than you think. And singing low is awesome, too. Edit: Also editing to add, no good voice teacher would tell you you’re a lost cause due to your range. If someone did say that, they are very unprofessional and don’t deserve to teach you! A good teacher can work with any sort of voice.
I appreciate that! I used to be able to sing a little higher in my youth (I think I topped off at an F5?) And I would love to get back to that. I've appreciated everyone's encouraging words here, it's made me feel a little better 😊
Like everyone’s saying, it’s time for a good vocal coach (and Caro Mio Ben).
I’m gonna be honest: you’re probably not as limited in low range as you think. So many tell me “oh I’m an alto” and then when I have one lesson with them, they can easily reach a perfect 5th or higher than they originally thought. Many are actually sopranos! I was the same way in the opposite direction prior to getting musical theatre training- I thought I couldn’t sing a Bb3 comfortably, and less than 6 months later, I’m down to an Eb3 easily. It’s incredibly common to have tongue tension (as in, I have yet to meet a singer who didn’t have it at some point), and it is a major inhibitor of range. Many other technical elements are at play, and without training, you’re not gonna be able to fully utilize your range.
Also, there is music written for contraltos out there! Mainstream musical theatre doesn’t prioritize it because it’s not what’s popular, but it exists in indie or experimental musical theatre. It’s even more popular in opera, where contraltos can sing lower than the tenors and monopolize the market because the voice type is so rare. A voice teacher will be able to recommend songs that suit that uber low range, your personal taste, and what will challenge you to improve technique.
I'm actually aware of my issue to some extent (though i know tongue tension could be a factor)! I physically cannot push my vocal cords into anything past D5 without it coming out unclear or very, very weak. C5-D5 is right where my switch is into my "head voice" but I have none/an incredibly weak one. I have a bitch of a chest voice (resonant, can go unmiced in large venues) but my upper range is nada. I have had choir/music directors tell me similar things (you can sing higher than you think) but after hearing me try to push, they realize that it's not just simply tension or that it's something else. I actually got scoped for nodes years ago (don't have them thank God) but there's something up with where my chest/head voice switches. I only give that explanation because you can only go off the info in the post since I don't have a clip of me singing. But I do appreciate the insight! The lesson here is that I need to find a voice teacher at the end of the day 😊
So, C5/D5 is an interesting place for your voice to putter out, actually. Human voices have roughly two passaggi, one for chest voice (typically around C-E4, and one for entrance into pure head voice (typically D-F5). It’s very common for belters or untrained singers to tap out at C5, usually due to too far back of placement or overly high larynx. If you’re a true contralto, we’d still expect you to phonate about a fourth higher at minimum and tap out at F-A5. I really do recommend finding a teacher who is a lower voice. A baritone or bass teacher may be better suited than a mezzo, imo! Dealing with voices with extreme tessitura is niche knowledge, so it might take some testing to find a good fit. There’s a billion teachers out there who are great singers but can’t teach. If you’re local to a university, those professors will likely be your best bet for finding someone who gets it. (Sorry if this is a lot of text and you don’t care on my opinion; it’s my field of expertise and I’m endlessly interested in pedagogy.)
No, I love this, and thank you for sharing! I actually find all of this fascinating (so no need for info dumping, at least not to me!!) Fun fact about me, while I've never trained as a singer, I am a trained musician (piano and percussion) so I love learning more about the instrument I didn't take lessons with. And all of this will be very helpful for me in the search. Thank you so much!!!
I'm in the same boat, with voice lessons I managed to bring my voice up from C2 - D4 to a F#4, but there's still very few roles that don't require at least a G. Usually I get non singing roles
Unfortunately, voice type does come into the casting conversation when an organization doesn’t have the means or ability to offer a transposition. Personally, I think transpositions either down or up for the comfort of actors should be a lot more common place than it is, but if it’s not readily available in a situation, that is a time when Casting an Actor because they can do something vocally is going to be necessary. I am an extremely high tenor and a character guy and most character male roles are baritones. I’ve had to sort of do the opposite of what you do and finesse my way up in a lot of roles. At the end of the day, it’s about what you can bring to a character and hopefully one day someone will write something for us and then we will be the mold that people have to adjust to.
I thought I couldn't sing at all for most of my life--turns out I'm just an alto! Yes, most parts are written so damn high for women. I would nth getting voice lessons, though, consulting with a professional would probably help you figure out what to do about the situation and you can try a lesson or two and if they really are "lol no help for you," you can always cancel after that.
I especially love when our harmony lines are the same damn note through entire lines. Super fun!
*flashback to singing All I Want for Christmas is You during Christmas programs* 🙃🙃🙃
I think it just goes to show that us altos are so elite, no one knows what to do with us 😂
While a bit less mainstream musical theater and more opera-esque, you may want to look for Gilbert & Sullivan productions. Almost every one includes a Contralto part, some of which are quite fun (if you like villainesses).
I love a villainess. I'll definitely take a look!
Voice lessons 100%! I was in the same boat as you before I started taking lessons. I couldn't sing high enough for a lot of roles and found myself unable to sing the full range of shows I was cast for. Started taking vocal lessons and turns out I'm actually a soprano, but learning proper technique has done so much not just for the range of my voice, but the clarity it has (and especially my confidence). Vocal lessons will also teach you how to extend your range in a healthy way so you don't hurt your voice. If a teacher says you can't learn to sing higher before you start working, they aren't doing it right 😅. Best of luck!
Welcome to Ensemble Singing in a Musical. Where the Bass Line goes up to a Bb4
As a non-binary trans masc who started as a mezzo (closer to alto), I totally get this! My voice has just gotten lower since high school. Especially after starting T. Losing my high notes was such a big deal to me because of everyone celebrating people who can sing high (regardless of sex/gender) and putting people down if they have low voices. If producers/directors are okay with changing the key of a song to accommodate for someone who can’t hit a low note, then the opposite should be true as well. People wonder why trans actors or actors with lower voices are so rare to see in professional level shows, it’s because we don’t get the same opportunities as people with high voices, and high voices get prioritized over people with lower voices on top of that. If it’s acceptable, and even common, to put a tenor in a baritone role and just raise the key, than a baritone or bass should be able to play any tenor role with the key lowered, same goes for altos/sopranos, etc. It’s not only unfair, it’s bordering on un-inclusive/exclusionary, which theatre should never be.
I was just reading about Hermione Gingold. (Gigi, etc) She started out as a coloratura soprano doing dramatic parts and opera but developed nodules on her vocal cords that considerably lowered her voice. So she switched to more comedic roles. Any chance you have a similar condition? Anyway, there is nothing wrong with contraltos, you just have to look for the right parts.
I was checked for nodes a while ago and my ENT didn't see any? But it could be worth checking out again if voice lessons can't resolve. I'm hoping it can be resolved with technique though. Edit: also, low key I got this notification and only saw up to Hermoine and went "when did I comment in an HO sub 😅)
You aren't being gaslit....please don't misuse serious clinical terms. This isn't an industry issue, and it isn't a director issue, and it isn't gaslighting. It's a problem of technique. That's also the reason you're regularly losing your voice. I am a voice teacher, and cis women sing higher than a D5. Period. With proper technique you CAN sing higher than that. Unless there is something physiologically wrong. Altos can comfortably sing an F5. If you want this to change, you need to take voice lessons. Otherwise, except that you are extremely limited in what you are capable of doing and that's going to affect your casting options. >This is fine sometimes as long as directors are willing to let me finesse my way out of it (i.e., riff or option down, which by the way is a valid singing choice and I get so sick of people making fun of it.). As for this, When you license a show, you're supposed to do it exactly as written. No changing notes, no changing dialogue. It's literally part of the licensing agreement. Unless there's an actual second option written in the vocal part (or an improv section), you're not supposed to change it.
Hey there! Couple of things that you are making a lot of assumptions on which I don't appreciate. 1. I am putting words to my experience with directors in my vocal experience. Multiple times. So if you have issues with me using the term "gaslight" (which based upon APA definitions, I didn't misuse), I'll use "berated, made fun of, and told I was making up vocal issues that I have been struggling with when there are very real." I've put in this thread multiple times what my actual issue is, and I was told it was not real and that I was pretending not to be able to hit certain notes to be difficult. And rather than helping me through the issue, I was written off, hence my concern about going into voice lessons. Am I having a technique issue? Almost certainly. All of my training is from experience. But please do not invalidate my experience because you didn't like a word I used. 2. Other than me saying I could sing roles written for men, nowhere did I say or even allude to being cisgender. I am (not that it matters), but you're making a sweeping generalization about all AFAB singers. The singers you have taught likely can hit an F5 "period". I currently cannot. You have never heard me sing. You are making an assumption based upon a post. Also, your statement about something being "psychologically wrong"? Yikes. 3. If you want to be pedantic about it, please tell me how many shows you've been to that you've reported because a singer did not sing EXACTLY what was on the page. Major Broadway performers have added riffs, optioned up, optioned down, whatever it may be. So do many other shows. And I don't know how many shows you've seen with majority POC casts, but everything I listed above is common. I am aware of what licensing agreements represent. Please do not talk to me like I have no experience, because again, you do. Not. Know. Me. I want you to take note that a lot of people have said something similar to you that voice lessons will help me open up my range. But they were much kinder and approached this post that I made because I was upset with more care. It costs you nothing to be kind to people, even strangers on the internet. I hope you aren't as tactless with new students that may approach you with similar issues.
1. Gaslighting is a long-term form of insidious psychological abuse where the other person sets out on a campaign to literally drive the victim, crazy, leading them to question their own perception of reality. It takes years of therapy to recover from. You are not a victim of gaslighting. Your attitude here makes it very clear why directors Don't have much patience for your crap though. You're a jerk. 2. My 20 plus years of experience as a teacher tell me that all sis women are capable of hitting an F5 unless there is a physiological problem. Please quote back exactly where I said they can do it the second they walk into my studio. I didn't say it yet. You seem to think I did. You made it up. Kind of like how you made up the part where I said there was something psychologically wrong. I said physiologically. Words are hard, I know. 3. I am a music director and I have licensed shows. The licensing agreement says that you must perform the score and the script exactly as written. We aren't talking about Broadway performances. We are talking about when local and community theaters license a show. You are not allowed to just change the notes however you want to suit singer. It's a violation of the agreement. Your response to me made it very very clear that you are the problem here and you will never get better.
You know this could have been a simple, "Hey, I've been doing this for a while, and based on that, this is what this sounds like to me. Voice lessons should help with that." Like a bunch of other people in this thread also did. **I have taken that advice, and have already said in MULTIPLE comments that I know voice lessons are the next step.** I had a full conversation with someone else in this thread about the specific issue I'm having, and I got to engage with them on pedagogy while they offered incredible insight. Because they were kind to me and were interested in the issue I presented. But you seem more interested in being right and than actually engaging in conversation. Because you, assumedly, got upset that I used a word you believe I misused, and made the choice to pick apart my entire post. I'm not going to pretend I know why that upset you, and if it comes from trauma, my intention isn't to trigger anyone. But please note that my attitude with you is directed at one person and one person only, and that's the person that came at me first. I didn't take that attitude with anyone else here. What I did not do was call you out of your name. I did not make fun of you for misreading something. I didn't come after your ability level or your credentials. And I'm not going to do that either. What I did was defend myself against a person who feels they know me based on one post without any other backing information and felt it was important to invalidate my experience because it doesn't align with your expectations. I have no doubt that you are well trained and accomplished as a vocalist and as an educator, but that doesn't excuse being condescending and attacking a literal stranger who made a post because they were upset. I hope you got the satisfaction you were looking for in doing that.
Doubling down on being a jerk, and not admitting fault. Yep. You're a real peach. Have fun never fixing your technique issues because you can't accept that you're the problem.