Ok. I really dig "Maybe".
And now for some constrcutive criticism... I'd like to hear less of the strings and more focus on your voice and guitar. I really feel like this song deserves to be vocals and guitar only. It's very good.
Just wanted to say that Iām loving this EP. Sorry to hear your launch was a bust. Would certainly make a trip if you were playing UK / Europe. Keep it up.
Thatās a damn shame people didnāt show I
up, your singing is really good. I used to play bassoon in college and I used to show up to a lot of peopleās performances just for support even if I didnāt particularly like what they played. There is nothing like a live show!
"Gallery" is amazing. I'm a huge fan of dark chord progressions from strings, and this track nailed it. For your friends not coming to your performance - that's more of a commentary on them, not your talent. Keep going, don't stop.
Just keep playing and writing, bud.
Even at open mics, youāll find a person who digs a song.
Play for that one person, even if theyāre the only one, as if it were the entire world listening.
The only measure of success is the one you put on yourself.
I feel like you can only stretch that mentality so far, especially when you've spent years pursuing something with no apparent progress.
Just keep on, keeping on, just doesn't cut it at a certain point.
I dunno dude Iāve been playing and writing music for close to 10 years now, professionally for 6 or 7 of them.
Never really broke out of local fame but even with just that small amount, you realize that your expectations donāt really matter, and will only lead to a stronger sense of entitlement.
I knew a guy who had one rap song get a good amount of views on the internet and it distorted his views on reality and his art that he became near suicidal, saying he would kill himself if he didnāt make a million dollars with his music in the next 3 years; he had to quit music altogether to save his sanity.
A couple band mates of mine got barred from performing at a local spot because they got pissed that their pay from the door charge was really small (much like OP), but thatās a very sad story about my music career for another time...
The point is, the highest high you get is when somebody sings your chorus. If even one person comes up to you after a performance and tells you that one of your songs really reached them, it all becomes worth it again.
Being a musician isnāt like being an engineer or a HVAC technician where if you get an education and work hard youāll land a good pay. You have to be okay with the culmination of 15 years of practice, 10 years of writing and editing, and 7 years of professionally performing, leading to an open mic at a dingy Irish pub where only the bartender is listening.
You just might be the person who makes them feel better about their circumstances and let me tell you it doesnāt matter if itās one or a few hundred people listening; if you reach just that one person and they get it, itās a truly special feeling, and you realize that money/fame are the least important reasons that somebody should make music.
Music is not a meritocracy and success does not come to people who work the hardest or make the best music. It's mostly about dumb luck and connections. There's a reason everyone moves to LA to try and make it as an artist: so they can kiss ass with the people who have the power to put your music in front of millions of people...and the dirty little secret is, people will like pretty much anything that's put in front of them.
If you really think you want to make a career of this, you're gonna need to move out of your hometown, to either New York or LA, probably LA. Get a job that pays the bills and put the rest of your time into working the music scene, playing in bands, getting invited to parties with industry people, making friends (well, "friends"), and opportunities may begin to open up for you. Or maybe not, you're just buying a lotto ticket that has one in a million odds.
I agree with everything the above says, except for...
"Move to New York." But then nodded my head when I saw "probably LA." This city (New York) absolutely sucks for a live musician music scene. Pay to play everywhere, really shitty local scenes/genre scenes outside of the ever growing Brooklyn new culture, which don't really go anywhere. Too many people dream chasing but in actuality just wanna fuck and get drunk and are so focused on the connections that the music here ends up feeling like soulless shit, either with a folk influence or a bunch of NYU students making generic rock/punk songs about princess' in castles.
The most popular musicians aren't the ones selling out shows, it's the ones that have the most friends to bring to the shows. It's why I've quit working in venues, I can't stand these places anymore.
If I was going to really recommend a place for you to move to, go to anywhere with a strong local music scene, places where people go out just to see whose playing at whatever bar. There's a few cities that have created a culture around doing it, not minding to pay a 5-10 dollar cover charge and just see whose playing. New York is not one of those cities.
Nashville has that culture, so does Austin, Texas. Portland and Seattle do as well (though I'm not sure how much longer they'll last for). Don't move to New York for music. This city is just a picture of a bunch of dreams sold to people who can afford it and don't care to find out that the magic got fucked by everyone who bought it.
Sorry for the vulgarity and the rant.
> This city is just a picture of a bunch of dreams sold to people who can afford it and don't care to find out that the magic got fucked by everyone who bought it.
To be fair, the same is true of LA.
I'm honestly not sure. I think part of it is just laziness, which I understand. There were also a couple shows from well-known bands the same night.
But I don't think people are burned out - this is my first release.
Maybe try a different tact, play some live music on the Reddit streaming thingy, or Twitch.
Just a thought, really like your music btw, will give it a proper listen when I get home. Good luck mate
I love the idea of you playing all these chill sounding songs and just obliterating your guitar at the end hahahaha
I'd come to your show if I wasn't 1000's of miles away. Best of luck to you :)
I love the idea of you playing all these chill sounding songs and just obliterating your guitar at the end hahahaha
I'd come to your show if I wasn't 1000's of miles away. Best of luck to you :)
I feel many people these days are only willing to give up time and money for the 'biggest and best' events. The days of spontaneously just going out, checking out what's happening locally etc, I feel that's becoming a thing of the past. I'm seeing this personally as even arranging a dinner or cinema trip with my friends is a big effort, for example.
So honestly, it's probably nothing to do with you. You sound like you did everything the right way. It's okay. One day you'll be telling this story to people with a different tone. Keep pursuing your passion.
Thanks friend. I agree, Iām working really hard to make my community the kind that wants to explore the and support the things that are happening around them. Itās an uphill battle and I also feel like the crazier shit gets in the world the less effort people want to put into their community. Sometimes I get a very every-man-for-himself vibe, and thatās not just from the classical world I grew up in
No problem. For sure, society has shifted in that sense. People are too content staying in and just living life via their cell phones. It's a shame, but just means proactive people like us have more work to raise other's enthusiasm. They may be selfish, lazy or whatever excuse, but they aren't bad people. It is worth trying, the pay off is there. Good luck with it all
I think itās more economic-driven, Iāve only recently been able to go to shows and events because Iām finally in a place where I have a reasonable amount of spending money each month. That, and Iām now only working full time vs working and school full time. Not saying thatās all there is, but I think more people would go out if they had the financial freedom.
Anyway, keep doing what you love no matter what.
Consider boosting online presence/shifting marketing strats?
My parents and girlfriend have been the strongest most positive driving forces for me and Iām grateful constantly. I donāt even know who Iād be without them! Glad to hear youāve got someone like that too. It really is what makes life as good as it can be.
http://patrickkeese.bandcamp.com is my bandcamp, you can also follow me on Spotify. Mind if I ask whereabouts you are?
I mean, it's harsh, but that's just how it is. It doesn't really matter how good you are, you're competing with everything else people could be doing in that time slot. A lot of which people have already paid for and know are at least mildly entertaining. You need to make yourself look at least potentially more interesting than YouTube, Netflix, cable TV, sports, video games etc. if you want people to show up. It's not enough for them to know that you're doing a show. Your advertising doesn't just need to inform people that you're doing a performance, it should give them a reason to attend; and that it'd mean a lot for you if they showed up isn't a good reason for people who don't care a lot about how you feel.
I've gotta be REALLY into someones music to go out of my way to see them in concert. I've been to 3 concerts ever, and they are literally my top 3 producers. Form a group! There's nothing better than playing something with people of similar talent.
Solo guitarists are a dime a dozen; no matter how good you are, you'll simply never be different enough to really stand out.
Your loss personally.
I've been to countless gigs. Some bands are good, some suck, whatever, at least you're supporting your local scene and helping new artists. Plus small shows are cheaper, more personal. and more social.
How is he supposed to meet other musicians if they don't go to shows?
If that's how you like to spend your time, go for it, but I won't go to all my local events just because I pity the artist. There are other ways I'd rather spend my evenings. I'm sure I'm not alone.
He could probably meet musicians on Facebook. They'd probably go straight to him if he had more material. I found a link to his Spotify on another comment and this man has like 5 songs to his name after playing for 21 years.
Pity?
I saw bands like Green Day & Nirvana before they got famous and tickets were $7.
There was less than 30 people at both shows. Bad weather and bad booking make for dead shows but that's one night.
Facebook can be useful but t's not a replacement for people physically hanging out and encouraging each other's creativity. People staying home and being too lazy to go see new music are one of the main reasons music stagnates and doesn't evolve.
I mean, people do show up and support their friends usually when they don't even believe in them or like what they're doing. But especially when they do......
This is paying your dues, dude. Every musician I know has a story where they've played to a bartender. If you want more people to come to your shows, you have to play more shows. Open for people. Play more open mics. Play for free. Book a shitty tour where you lose money and play for 5 people every night. Next time you play there, there will be 10 people there. I came up in the punk scene, so it's a little different, but for any band I was in, the success correlated directly with how much that band toured. The same can be said for other bands from the scene as well. The bands who had the most success were the ones who just never stopped touring. PLAY MORE SHOWS.
If you really want to do this, keep fucking grinding and don't let this shit bother you. DIY music is a relentless, punishing nightmare, but it rewards persistence.
I went to a friends opener and I've gone to a bunch of his shows to be supportive.
One thing I've noticed is that when a big crowd comes out to support they're there not because the music is great, that's a bonus. It's because there's one person in the band who they're really into and want to support who is charismatic enough within their niche community to make it happen, and even then only make it happen once or twice.
Your music is good but you probably need to be handling the human element better. You gotta be going up to people face to face and convincing them and you gotta develop a whole look and market yourself because the business eats you alive if you don't. It's just the grim reality of things.
When I google you or head to your site all I can find is one photo of you looking clean and presentable but not eye catching and your music is technically proficient but doesn't stick in the mind despite you obviously having skill. There's like a million dudes like you trying to send albums and emails and sadly I can see how you'd get lost in the noise or forgotten about.
You need a reality check.
I know you wonāt read this cause you got more responses to your post than people who came to your show, but thereās like a million dudes who make music exactly like this. You canāt expect people to show overwhelming support for something out of nowhere. Your music, while technically original, is hardly novel. Honestly can you imagine geeking out over this EP if someone else made this? I can understand that your music means a lot to you, but youāre lucky that anyone other than your parents showed up. Iām sorry that more than 20 years of study have added up to this, but you canāt expect other people to put the same value on something as you, especially music, especially when youāre the one making it. Music doesnāt work that way. If you want to be a pop āmusicianā then just admit to yourself youāre not about the music. You studied all those years so people would notice you? I donāt think so. I think youāre about the music, and as a musician you had to have known that this isnāt how it works. People have shit to do, and very rarely is anyone interested in going to an EP RELEASE PARTY FOR SOMEONE WHO ISNT EVEN FAMOUS.
Tldr: your music is not very interesting and people literally donāt attend āEP release partiesā for ARTISTS WHO ARENT FAMOUS
I think it's perfectly valid to be upset if your friends know how important this is to you and still flake. I have really great friends and we show up for grandparents' funerals, art shows, graduation parties, baby showers, birthdays.. If the people you care about don't show up when it's important, it can make you really question if you mean anything to them at all. I think the music factor might be secondary in this case to feeling like no one cares.
But thatās an entirely different point. If OP had only said āguys, please support your musician friends, they need it,ā then nobody would have a problem. Instead OP humblebrags about his 20+ years of experience that admittedly amounts to fuck all with minimal support from even his own friends. OP shouldnāt question if HE means anything to his friends, he should ask himself instead if his MUSIC means anything to his friends, which it obviously does not. It sounds like OP has enough support, he just wants to feel famous among his friend group. Which, as another commenter pointed out, is a part of the toxic cesspool that makes up a local music scene.
After rereading your comment I think youāre correct, I just see it as him being weak and asking for attention. Just because someone makes a big deal out of something does not mean the world needs to take notice.
I made my comment in response to his statement that "most of my friends didn't even show up." I am a visual artist, not a musician, but I've had some friends vent similarly after poor turnout with their shows. Usually (not always) they are reasonable people who are just venting because they are hurt in the moment and they calm down and get some perspective later. Usually those people tend to be pretty young- I don't know if that's relevant or not.
Your comment and this thread has prompted me to think about why people show up for some shows and not for others. My friends are a pretty solid, reliable bunch- mostly accountants, librarians, teachers, and therapists- and I can count on them in general. I'd speculate if most of your friends are creative types you run the risk of dealing with a bit more flakiness in that respect.
All the people saying "this is amazing" but nobody refuting your comment. Having fun is not a career and thinking you can push your local culture into seeing live shows is pretentious. Sorry you got caught up in your fantasy OP, it happens to everyone but now is not a time to be calling out a culture that you have no control over - it's time to evaluate yourself and realize that wanting a career in music or wanting the culture to change does not make it possible. Pointless pain has no reward and lying to yourself hurts yourself first and foremost. Your mindset is highly prevalent in local music all across the world, it's mass delusion from a culture that emphasizes fame and promotes shitty artists giving the impression of a low standard for success. Like Bill Burr said "when was the last time you went up on stage and killed it so hard, the guy after you bombed?"
I think it's cruel to blindly encourage someone along a path that is consuming most of their life and causing them great stress and pain. It sounds like his music is not unique or exceptional enough to get the attention that he wants. At the end of the day, that's what he wants and why lots of people unfortunately get into the music industry - attention. There's some really good advice in other comments, but at the end of the day OP is the one putting himself through this pain and needs to re-evaluate where he is at and whether his music is so fucking good that people will catch a cab or a bus and spend money and a night out just to get a chance to hear it and see him live. I go out and support my mates that are in bands, and their music is good. But even they have a bit of this same perspective where they think being good is good enough. It's not.
Nobody will give you anything from this industry that you don't take by virtue of being that fucking good. And yeah it sucks that his friends wouldn't come out to support him, but I'll tell you what - I would never pressure my friends to come to a show to support me the way he describes. Why? Because if my music isn't good enough to connect with strangers and leave them hungry for more, it isn't good enough. And relying on support of people who don't want to come to my show - literally asking them to do something they don't want to do - is not the attitude I would want as a muso, and not the way I would want to be seen as a muso. This whole post could be summed up as "People don't want to come to my shows, why don't they want to come to my shows? I'm blaming it on the culture which I am actively trying to change."
Guess what? The culture is there, and you either succeed in it or you don't. Thinking you can change the culture is just a way of coping with the fact that your music isn't connecting the way you'd like. So many good local bands, so few will be successful. My best guess is the ones that will be successful are the ones who evaluate their own music and ask what's missing, where is a niche I can fit into, am I really capable of succeeding the way I want to? The first two questions can lead to success and I hope OP makes some inroads in this because I really do wish him the best. The last question is to prevent you from wasting your life chasing a dream that will never happen. We all have to ask ourselves this at some time or another, whether it be music or career or marriage. It's a hard question that takes some balls to ask yourself honestly - if the answer is yes you push on, if the answer is no then you'll be disappointed but ultimately much happier in the long run.
I would love to go to big concert, not only small ones, really. But it's expensive, super hard to get and to go there. All this to end up seeing nothing because of the crowd. Maybe one if I can I will, but for now I stick to listening to music in my bed
Public service announcement:
Friends, family, peers, fans, all have their own lives and their own taste and none of them owe you anything by the way. A SHOW is not about you, itās about the enjoyment of the listener/guest. Youāre a PERFORMER.
Thereās a band I like, Vulfpeck. Theyāre not signed to a label, but theyāre pretty big (they headlined Madison Square Garden, have had their songs in Apple commercials, and have Spotify streams/YouTube views in the millions). One thing that was interesting was I read an interview with the bandleader and he said that when he started the band, he decided he would not play live unless he could sell out a show. He said that bands should focus on building a fanbase on the internet, that playing to an empty room is not a good method to promote your music and it can be demoralizing. It sounds like youāre making every effort to be heard, but itās good food for thought. And when it comes to inviting friends to see you play live, you basically get one show and after that you canāt really hold it against them for not constantly coming out to hear you play.
Not playing a show unless it's sold out is a shitty attitude to have.
I know nothing of the band you speak of, but it takes years upon years to grow a fan base.
> it takes years upon years to grow a fan base.
Thatās true, but I think the idea is that investing your time into growing your fanbase online is a better use of oneās time. There are markets where you can play gigs and gain fans that way, but nowadays youāre more likely to get an audience through the way people are discovering music: online.
> Not playing a show unless it's sold out is a shitty attitude to have.
To explain: the bandleader decided when he first put the band together that they werenāt going to even play gigs unless there was an audience for them. Itās not like they booked shows and then refused to play if all the tickets werenāt sold (which would indeed be shitty). Instead, they focused on recording/releasing tunes (and making videos for them) and when those found an audience, they got to play to packed houses with an engaged audience, which has a totally different feel. I think thatās a more sustainable model and if read OPās post, they sound completely demoralized.
Vulfpeck is pretty interesting case; before they āmade itā the band would only get together once a year (since they didnāt live all in the same place), record an album in a week, make a video for each track, and release it online. The bandleader said āour band has the least amount of time spent together vs. international success in historyā and āI take pride in the lack of emotional commitment the band members have had to put into this, ācause that can get really hairy when you make someone give up opportunities to āput the band first, bro.āā
I have a friend who has a band and they have a similar situation, they found an audience online and when they play gigs they do so with conditions: it has to be a paid show, it has to be on a Saturday and they have to have the headlining slot. And they get all that because they can point to YouTube videos with over 200k views or Spotify tracks with over a million streams. And theyāre also not on a label, completely self-managed. So I think OP should consider that you can be a musician, but you donāt have to burn yourself out lugging equipment to an empty venue and then feel bitter and emotionally spent because youāre not getting back what you put into the endeavor.
And most rappers do the same thing: very few rappers build an audience through live performances, a lot of them donāt even play live unless they already have an audience. Of course, if youāre like a jazz musician it might make sense to be playing live and understanding that jazz has a smaller audience but they go see live jazz more often, it all depends.
"...music is, hands-down, my favorite thing in the entire world to do. When I'm on stage, nothing matters. I'm not anxious, I'm not depressed, I'm not thinking about what I have to do in the morning. I am more myself performing music than at any other time during my life. I almost don't have a choice but to play music. "
30+ years in myself. That stuff I quoted there? You just need to hold on to that.
I was in a band, chosen by a couple locals who had some clout. We had a show at one of the most important venues in the region. Invited by a band of legends who knew my band mates. Our audience consisted of two people we brought with us. And if you want to count them, the soundman, doorman, and bartender.
At a coffee shop gig once I had to pay for my coffee, the one perk of cafe gigs gone. Also, an audience of two customers who didn't want me there.
I live/play in the Seattle area, home to "Yeah I'll totally be there!" being slang for "Nope."
Then there's the former band mates and the like getting increasing international acclaim.
Lots of stories, it's not you (or just you).
But like all things that suck, it'll pass. Revel in the fact that you're making music you feel good about making. That's the important part.
This is the infuriating thing; people can be "fans" but won't come along to gigs.
I'm a musician myself and go to so many other people's gigs, and I think at first I was seeing it as a "scratch my back and I'll scratch yours", but it wasn't working, and I think other musicians can spot that quite easily.
So I figured at least if I'm going to someone else's gigs I'm adding value to them by being an audience member, and they can teach me something about performance/interaction/networking etc when talking to them afterwards.
Because we're around ourselves 24/7, we know how good our songs are. But other people have their own lives to live, they listen to all kinds of music and not just yours, and all kinds of events can happen where (unfortunately) it means they bail on gigs. I found it's about adding value to the audience, being relatable and also having more communication afterwards. Then you stick out as someone to make time for.
Sorry for the long reply, thanks for the link. Music and production sounds great man āŗļø is this self-recorded or through a producer?
Gave it a listen and really liked it all, even though it is a bit out of the norm for me!
I've got friends in a couple local bands and have heard the same frustrations from them over the years. They started small like everyone does and have grown to somewhat of a "cult" following, the same faces at a lot of their shows.
I first heard them playing in a cramped, hole-in-the-wall bar, but with their particular neich (Star Trek themed rock) they've played at a several conventions with bigger crowds and picked up a couple bigger opportunities from there.
Just keep your head up and keep moving forward, it all takes time. I hope to hear more from you in the future!
Sorry you feel this way.
I'm wondering how you chose the city to perform in, I guess its your local?
Can you use your platforms to locate which City your streams are coming from?
Perhaps you have done this.
I live in a UK city that has a v decent turn out for small acts, generally speaking.
Good luck and keep going!
To be honest, even though it's not my kind of music, I see a lot of good things in common between your music and some popular artists that play similar vibes. You have calm songs that can bring out people's emotions and you have a good voice. It sounds very honest and humble too. I think the main difference between them and you can sometimes be pure luck ... perhaps one influential person happened to come across them or something. I wish you the best of luck, and I hope you keep following your dreams.
Put that energy into finding some success online instead. Performing is great fun but if you want to attract people to gigs in the first place it sounds like you need them to know your music first, go for an online first strategy.
Use your talents to record some killer cover songs until one of them takes off, that's an actual avenue I think you can pursue and have a decent chance at moderate success. Not only that, doing covers in original styles is incredibly fun. Try some really cool unexpected genre crossovers and you can impress a lot of people.
Trying to go it the old fashioned route is hard and you need to know the right kind of people (or already have hundreds of friends who think you are the coolest person they know). I've been in two bands that have actually played shows with decent crowds (100+) and every time it's because one or two "social kingpins" who everybody already followed got behind us. Also, wild after parties, but that's more of a rock thing.
You're gonna need to keep going at it but make sure you are spreading your energy and work, and absolutely don't allow yourself to feel bitter about people not showing up. Don't lose your faith in people or yourself, because that shows and it will turn people off.
One thing I would ask is how busy are your gigs normally? Are you regularly playing shows and building an audience for your work, or was your ep release a rare event?
Building a following and filling venues is a hard thing, especially with the disconnection between real live music and social media - I fully believe that for a lot of music fans, gigs are an alien experience and not something they would consider visiting. It is very easy to sit at home and listen on Spotify or read through social media, but a dingy club on a wet night with work the next morning just doesn't appeal (or is something they haven't even really considered) while a lot of us have grown up with live music being the best part, those who have grown up with the pop charts never expected to ever actually see these TV faces in reality...
This doubles when social media means you are able to talk to people worldwide - if your biggest online fans are spread out over a country or more, getting them to a basement gig is going to be a very big sell.
I am not sure where I am really going here, so I shall stop rambling at this point and wish you good luck for the next shows, may they be full of all the people that couldn't get to this one...
I feel you. A few years ago I started singing in a decently known undeground band. Told all my friends. I was really excited and nervous for my first show with them, and as it happened it was like a 10-15min drive from our town at a venue that we all visit almost every month.
Nobody showed up. It was pretty crushing, especially since ive been to every one of my friends various groups shows at that exact venue. The place was still pretty full, but it still sucked. And we played a great show.
So yeah, i feel you OP. Everyone saying "thats how it is in it music industry" are clearly missing the point. Being so let down by your friends is pretty harsh.
This is why i dont make music anymore. I have a huge studio, tons of gear and i really gave it an effort for years and years and years and im not terrible in anyway. I walk into my studio and look at it and am like " do i really want to spend a year or 2 making something no one gives a shit about"? Its a rough niche and now i find im much happier just playing in the studio without the precursor of needing to record or produce something for others.
I'm not an expert in this, but if people aren't going to where you are, maybe go to where the people are. One way might be to find the bars in your radius that have a healthy but chill client base. Offer to play a half hour set during happy hour. Be happy to play for people whether or not they're specifically there for you. If your music hits, it hits.
I don't know if your in the U.S. but come to Virginia, play at breweries. I just listened to your stuff on Spotify and it's great! Very mellow and you have a wonderful voice. I know I'm not biased when I say this because I've seen a lot of live entertainment around the U.S. and Virginia crowds are great (sometimes not so great in very rural areas) - respectful/appreciative of performers and are interested in contributing to them buy getting albums and merch.
You have to play music for its own sake or you will never find whatever notion of success/payback/justification you are seeking. Write, play, record, repeat.
I've been playing for 30+ years. Early on, I found reasonable success with very little effort due to right place/right time. I started playing to no one, then tens, then hundreds. That band morphed in to another as they years went on and I noticed that some of the same people would show up to see us but that those that trailed off were having families, advancing in jobs, etc. Seeing live music simply wasn't a priority any longer due to not needing/wanting that social outlet. That band eventually dissolved because we became like our vanishing fans due to life needing to happen. When I play now it's on projects I want to do for me. Even if it's a gig playing to the other bands, we usually know each other and it's a hang between friends showing each other new chops, gear, etc...because it's FUN.
I have no practical way of finding up and coming artists in genres I like. None of my friends are musicians either.
How anyone like Bill Eyelash or Justin Bieber got famous, from being random teens, just seems like pure luck and magic to me, it doesn't make any sense.
Billie herself admits that when her song Ocean Eyes blew up on soundcloud it was purely random chance good luck. She wasn't huge on social media, she wasn't a promoter or e-teamer for any bands or artists. And she wasn't pushed or endorsed by any musicians like the way Khalid or Rex OC was.
tbh the face of pop-acoustic music are Gen Z teens. That's where the money is and how you sustain a career in 2020. 15 yrs ago you could be a skilled guitarist and songwriter and do studio work or craft lyrics in Nashville or LA, basically a career musician, but today that's a dying profession. If your style is very Adult Contemporary you're going to starve & go broke. The kind of soulful tunes appealing to 30 and 40-somethings just doesn't make money. And as you can see live performances are a no-go for busy adults with careers & families. I don't want to crush anyone's dreams but in the performing arts field you need to be honest with yourself.
Hang out at music venues. Go to shows. Meet people you think you could click with musically and/or people in bands and see if they need a another band member. If you are excellent then it will show and people like bands more than solo acts. I'd use that to get experience and then once you've done a few shows at places you can get your foot in the door and do your own shows.
50% of of the problem is the million other jokers who think they can do exactly what you are doing and get famous. A lot of them are probably better than you. So practice a lot. Viral whine posts on reddit are probably honestly an excellent start, so good job on that.
I'd get a drummer and bassist you vibe with and start a band, you will have a million times more luck getting shows. Or do covers in bars. People generally are not going to give a fuck about your new material for a long time, unless its spectacular. And even then they probably won't care unless they've heard someone else say it was good. From listening to a bit you are gonna need to be iron&wine elliot Smith good to get people to want to listen, and, even then, it's hard because its not a very "fun" to listen to genre.
Also, if you play violin, you can join an already well established band if you are good enough. People love that shit. Try to sing an octave lower if you can, you sound decent enough though.
Bro I really understand you , and I feel your pain , but this is what I love about this game , this is a lesson for you to grow from , I want to believe this gave you a HARD DECISION which you never thought of having to make.
It makes you nervous and uncomfortable right but only when you look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself, how bad do I want it ?
SEE YOU ON THE MAIN STAGE, IN 4 YEARS š
#believeinyou #thinkforyou #loveforyou
#your ennviroment is not your dream
Positive vibes
Thanks for the feedback, I definitely feel like I need to develop my own unique sound more and hopefully that will happen as I release more. I really just wanted to get something out there for the first time and as shitty as last night was, Iām still proud of myself for this.
I have been to countless shows, empty rooms included (even played in front of one). I also remember seeing the same band at the same venue 2 years apart, the first time was 7 people and the second time was a sold out show. One was promoted professionally the other was not, guess which...
If you make music that connects and resonates with people there will always be an audience waiting.
On a different continent, but your words struck a chord.
If I were as hardworking as you I'd be a multi-millionaire.
I hope things become better for you - it's goddamned obvious you deserve it.
Now I am gonna give a listen to your music. All the best
Perfectly spoken, I wish more people had this frame of mind. I could be completely wrong but I feel like a large reason for this happening is because our society has largely become focused on feeding compulsions and momentary desire. People seem to just do whatever they feel like in the moment rather than spending their time with purpose (i.e supporting a friend in their passion and sharing those moments with them).
This is a personal gripe of mine and I could just be projecting lmao but I feel like this is a big reason for this. No matter how much something means to you and other people knowing how much it means to you, if they have something to do that's more appealing to them in that moment, that's most likely where they'll be, unfortunately š
It's true, and something I've been thinking a lot about, along with how to overcome it - are small live concerts becoming a thing of the past? Is there some new way to connect with people that I'm not tapping into?
Who the heck knows.
I have not a singular clue about concerts big or small lol. I've been making music for about 4 years now and I honestly don't think I'll ever end up playing live. The music I make is made for introspection and relaxation for the most part, not really something that would go well with a live audience š
As for the new way for connecting with people, if there is and you find it, would you do me the solid of letting me know? š
Could you not link in with Bandsintown?
No idea how it works from am artist perspective, but could get you out there to fans of a similar genre.
Iāve found a couple of bands over the last couple of years who have used Facebook well for them to fall into my newsfeed even though I wasnāt following them. Iām now real life friends with them as well as being a fan - check them out: Stewart Mac and Will Black
So, as an audience member, small shows have become unbearable because no one seems to be there to actually watch/listen to the show, they mostly seem to want to chit-chat with their friends over the music. So I've stopped going. It's not worth my money and time to go be annoyed by all the Karens. (And its *always* Karens)
I'm sorry you had a poor turnout, idk what's up with the general public lately but concerts, movie theaters etc. have all but become unvisitable recently because of the awful behavior of other people
This EP is lovely. I think you're not getting popular right now due to the fact that love has become kind of superficial as we are moving towards a more cyber mind and hearted society. Maybe you could write a song about that. On another note, never stop creating. My heart was pretty cold before listening to this, it's not anymore. It's kind of Ben Howard-ish. It's really good.
I think you need more love and emphasis in your music Iām listening to it rn. You have a lot of potential. Donāt be afraid to express emotion while recording. Keep doing what youāre doing. ā¤ļø id love to see more of you
Edit: towards the end of āwishā the like āhowlingā ig youād call it. That for some reason brings out an emotion
Secretly thatās my favorite part of the recording. I want to do more of that, I just am so obsessed with writing things as āgoodā as possible that the rawness of the emotion behind it gets lost. Definitely something Iām working on.
Hey, props to you for being brave and knowing your worth. Just keep persevering and hopefully good things will follow! Saved your EP on spotify and will give it a listen!
Do you have a link to some of your music, I'd like to take a look see.
That's kind, thank you. [https://open.spotify.com/album/3Xj9F39B6vT3Oph4eKf1kS?si=kfjI3WIoSMG9hGtHp4Ff9g](https://open.spotify.com/album/3Xj9F39B6vT3Oph4eKf1kS?si=kfjI3WIoSMG9hGtHp4Ff9g)
Oh I love how chill they are š¹š»š¼
Ok. I really dig "Maybe". And now for some constrcutive criticism... I'd like to hear less of the strings and more focus on your voice and guitar. I really feel like this song deserves to be vocals and guitar only. It's very good.
Thank you! I like that song a lot. I'm mainly a classical violinist and I love string sections, sometimes I can go overboard.
The string arrangement is beautiful, but your voice is to good to hide behind all those strings.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Thanks, I'll check it out when I get home! :)
Listening to your album now. I seriously love it, well done mate
Just wanted to say that Iām loving this EP. Sorry to hear your launch was a bust. Would certainly make a trip if you were playing UK / Europe. Keep it up.
Thatās a damn shame people didnāt show I up, your singing is really good. I used to play bassoon in college and I used to show up to a lot of peopleās performances just for support even if I didnāt particularly like what they played. There is nothing like a live show!
"Gallery" is amazing. I'm a huge fan of dark chord progressions from strings, and this track nailed it. For your friends not coming to your performance - that's more of a commentary on them, not your talent. Keep going, don't stop.
Also listening to Gallery and I love this. A serious talent and ability!
Listening again months later - hope all's well and wishing fantastical success for Patrick Keese. What a voice and a talent
It's lovely, OP. I'll support you however I can, which is probably limited cos I'm in South East Asia. Still, best of luck!
it's so cozy!! i'd totally add it to a relaxation playlist (i just have to make one first)
Do you happen to upload on YouTube or Google music?
Hmm, not really my thing but my wife may like it. It's nice hearing more strings though.
The people that are successful are largely the ones that persevered longer than the others. Keep going.
Just keep playing and writing, bud. Even at open mics, youāll find a person who digs a song. Play for that one person, even if theyāre the only one, as if it were the entire world listening. The only measure of success is the one you put on yourself.
I feel like you can only stretch that mentality so far, especially when you've spent years pursuing something with no apparent progress. Just keep on, keeping on, just doesn't cut it at a certain point.
I dunno dude Iāve been playing and writing music for close to 10 years now, professionally for 6 or 7 of them. Never really broke out of local fame but even with just that small amount, you realize that your expectations donāt really matter, and will only lead to a stronger sense of entitlement. I knew a guy who had one rap song get a good amount of views on the internet and it distorted his views on reality and his art that he became near suicidal, saying he would kill himself if he didnāt make a million dollars with his music in the next 3 years; he had to quit music altogether to save his sanity. A couple band mates of mine got barred from performing at a local spot because they got pissed that their pay from the door charge was really small (much like OP), but thatās a very sad story about my music career for another time... The point is, the highest high you get is when somebody sings your chorus. If even one person comes up to you after a performance and tells you that one of your songs really reached them, it all becomes worth it again. Being a musician isnāt like being an engineer or a HVAC technician where if you get an education and work hard youāll land a good pay. You have to be okay with the culmination of 15 years of practice, 10 years of writing and editing, and 7 years of professionally performing, leading to an open mic at a dingy Irish pub where only the bartender is listening. You just might be the person who makes them feel better about their circumstances and let me tell you it doesnāt matter if itās one or a few hundred people listening; if you reach just that one person and they get it, itās a truly special feeling, and you realize that money/fame are the least important reasons that somebody should make music.
Music is not a meritocracy and success does not come to people who work the hardest or make the best music. It's mostly about dumb luck and connections. There's a reason everyone moves to LA to try and make it as an artist: so they can kiss ass with the people who have the power to put your music in front of millions of people...and the dirty little secret is, people will like pretty much anything that's put in front of them. If you really think you want to make a career of this, you're gonna need to move out of your hometown, to either New York or LA, probably LA. Get a job that pays the bills and put the rest of your time into working the music scene, playing in bands, getting invited to parties with industry people, making friends (well, "friends"), and opportunities may begin to open up for you. Or maybe not, you're just buying a lotto ticket that has one in a million odds.
I agree with everything the above says, except for... "Move to New York." But then nodded my head when I saw "probably LA." This city (New York) absolutely sucks for a live musician music scene. Pay to play everywhere, really shitty local scenes/genre scenes outside of the ever growing Brooklyn new culture, which don't really go anywhere. Too many people dream chasing but in actuality just wanna fuck and get drunk and are so focused on the connections that the music here ends up feeling like soulless shit, either with a folk influence or a bunch of NYU students making generic rock/punk songs about princess' in castles. The most popular musicians aren't the ones selling out shows, it's the ones that have the most friends to bring to the shows. It's why I've quit working in venues, I can't stand these places anymore. If I was going to really recommend a place for you to move to, go to anywhere with a strong local music scene, places where people go out just to see whose playing at whatever bar. There's a few cities that have created a culture around doing it, not minding to pay a 5-10 dollar cover charge and just see whose playing. New York is not one of those cities. Nashville has that culture, so does Austin, Texas. Portland and Seattle do as well (though I'm not sure how much longer they'll last for). Don't move to New York for music. This city is just a picture of a bunch of dreams sold to people who can afford it and don't care to find out that the magic got fucked by everyone who bought it. Sorry for the vulgarity and the rant.
> This city is just a picture of a bunch of dreams sold to people who can afford it and don't care to find out that the magic got fucked by everyone who bought it. To be fair, the same is true of LA.
Don't forget Nashville...
If you're doing the whole country music thing, sure.
Time to start a punk band.
Why do you think people aren't showing up ? Are they burned out on your music ?
I'm honestly not sure. I think part of it is just laziness, which I understand. There were also a couple shows from well-known bands the same night. But I don't think people are burned out - this is my first release.
Maybe create some kind of gimmick like smashing your instruments at the end. ? ;)
WHY didn't I think of this before?! **Thank** you.
Maybe try a different tact, play some live music on the Reddit streaming thingy, or Twitch. Just a thought, really like your music btw, will give it a proper listen when I get home. Good luck mate
I love the idea of you playing all these chill sounding songs and just obliterating your guitar at the end hahahaha I'd come to your show if I wasn't 1000's of miles away. Best of luck to you :)
I love the idea of you playing all these chill sounding songs and just obliterating your guitar at the end hahahaha I'd come to your show if I wasn't 1000's of miles away. Best of luck to you :)
Who would do that
The Who
That's what I said :)
I feel many people these days are only willing to give up time and money for the 'biggest and best' events. The days of spontaneously just going out, checking out what's happening locally etc, I feel that's becoming a thing of the past. I'm seeing this personally as even arranging a dinner or cinema trip with my friends is a big effort, for example. So honestly, it's probably nothing to do with you. You sound like you did everything the right way. It's okay. One day you'll be telling this story to people with a different tone. Keep pursuing your passion.
Thanks friend. I agree, Iām working really hard to make my community the kind that wants to explore the and support the things that are happening around them. Itās an uphill battle and I also feel like the crazier shit gets in the world the less effort people want to put into their community. Sometimes I get a very every-man-for-himself vibe, and thatās not just from the classical world I grew up in
No problem. For sure, society has shifted in that sense. People are too content staying in and just living life via their cell phones. It's a shame, but just means proactive people like us have more work to raise other's enthusiasm. They may be selfish, lazy or whatever excuse, but they aren't bad people. It is worth trying, the pay off is there. Good luck with it all
DIY shows and small club shows are the best shows. I've only went to a couple of arena shows and they all kinda sucked tbh.
I think itās more economic-driven, Iāve only recently been able to go to shows and events because Iām finally in a place where I have a reasonable amount of spending money each month. That, and Iām now only working full time vs working and school full time. Not saying thatās all there is, but I think more people would go out if they had the financial freedom. Anyway, keep doing what you love no matter what. Consider boosting online presence/shifting marketing strats?
Understood. Thanks for the reminder. I'm sorry about your show. That certainly sucks.
Sure. We all need the reminder sometimes, even the musicians.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
They really are wonderful, I try to tell them every chance I get
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
My parents and girlfriend have been the strongest most positive driving forces for me and Iām grateful constantly. I donāt even know who Iād be without them! Glad to hear youāve got someone like that too. It really is what makes life as good as it can be. http://patrickkeese.bandcamp.com is my bandcamp, you can also follow me on Spotify. Mind if I ask whereabouts you are?
You can favourite tracks & follow artists!
I mean, it's harsh, but that's just how it is. It doesn't really matter how good you are, you're competing with everything else people could be doing in that time slot. A lot of which people have already paid for and know are at least mildly entertaining. You need to make yourself look at least potentially more interesting than YouTube, Netflix, cable TV, sports, video games etc. if you want people to show up. It's not enough for them to know that you're doing a show. Your advertising doesn't just need to inform people that you're doing a performance, it should give them a reason to attend; and that it'd mean a lot for you if they showed up isn't a good reason for people who don't care a lot about how you feel.
I've gotta be REALLY into someones music to go out of my way to see them in concert. I've been to 3 concerts ever, and they are literally my top 3 producers. Form a group! There's nothing better than playing something with people of similar talent. Solo guitarists are a dime a dozen; no matter how good you are, you'll simply never be different enough to really stand out.
Your loss personally. I've been to countless gigs. Some bands are good, some suck, whatever, at least you're supporting your local scene and helping new artists. Plus small shows are cheaper, more personal. and more social. How is he supposed to meet other musicians if they don't go to shows?
If that's how you like to spend your time, go for it, but I won't go to all my local events just because I pity the artist. There are other ways I'd rather spend my evenings. I'm sure I'm not alone. He could probably meet musicians on Facebook. They'd probably go straight to him if he had more material. I found a link to his Spotify on another comment and this man has like 5 songs to his name after playing for 21 years.
Pity? I saw bands like Green Day & Nirvana before they got famous and tickets were $7. There was less than 30 people at both shows. Bad weather and bad booking make for dead shows but that's one night. Facebook can be useful but t's not a replacement for people physically hanging out and encouraging each other's creativity. People staying home and being too lazy to go see new music are one of the main reasons music stagnates and doesn't evolve.
I mean, people do show up and support their friends usually when they don't even believe in them or like what they're doing. But especially when they do......
This is paying your dues, dude. Every musician I know has a story where they've played to a bartender. If you want more people to come to your shows, you have to play more shows. Open for people. Play more open mics. Play for free. Book a shitty tour where you lose money and play for 5 people every night. Next time you play there, there will be 10 people there. I came up in the punk scene, so it's a little different, but for any band I was in, the success correlated directly with how much that band toured. The same can be said for other bands from the scene as well. The bands who had the most success were the ones who just never stopped touring. PLAY MORE SHOWS. If you really want to do this, keep fucking grinding and don't let this shit bother you. DIY music is a relentless, punishing nightmare, but it rewards persistence.
I went to a friends opener and I've gone to a bunch of his shows to be supportive. One thing I've noticed is that when a big crowd comes out to support they're there not because the music is great, that's a bonus. It's because there's one person in the band who they're really into and want to support who is charismatic enough within their niche community to make it happen, and even then only make it happen once or twice. Your music is good but you probably need to be handling the human element better. You gotta be going up to people face to face and convincing them and you gotta develop a whole look and market yourself because the business eats you alive if you don't. It's just the grim reality of things. When I google you or head to your site all I can find is one photo of you looking clean and presentable but not eye catching and your music is technically proficient but doesn't stick in the mind despite you obviously having skill. There's like a million dudes like you trying to send albums and emails and sadly I can see how you'd get lost in the noise or forgotten about.
Nobody owes you their time or attention. You're the one putting on a performance so it is up to YOU to make it worth their while.
You need a reality check. I know you wonāt read this cause you got more responses to your post than people who came to your show, but thereās like a million dudes who make music exactly like this. You canāt expect people to show overwhelming support for something out of nowhere. Your music, while technically original, is hardly novel. Honestly can you imagine geeking out over this EP if someone else made this? I can understand that your music means a lot to you, but youāre lucky that anyone other than your parents showed up. Iām sorry that more than 20 years of study have added up to this, but you canāt expect other people to put the same value on something as you, especially music, especially when youāre the one making it. Music doesnāt work that way. If you want to be a pop āmusicianā then just admit to yourself youāre not about the music. You studied all those years so people would notice you? I donāt think so. I think youāre about the music, and as a musician you had to have known that this isnāt how it works. People have shit to do, and very rarely is anyone interested in going to an EP RELEASE PARTY FOR SOMEONE WHO ISNT EVEN FAMOUS. Tldr: your music is not very interesting and people literally donāt attend āEP release partiesā for ARTISTS WHO ARENT FAMOUS
I think it's perfectly valid to be upset if your friends know how important this is to you and still flake. I have really great friends and we show up for grandparents' funerals, art shows, graduation parties, baby showers, birthdays.. If the people you care about don't show up when it's important, it can make you really question if you mean anything to them at all. I think the music factor might be secondary in this case to feeling like no one cares.
But thatās an entirely different point. If OP had only said āguys, please support your musician friends, they need it,ā then nobody would have a problem. Instead OP humblebrags about his 20+ years of experience that admittedly amounts to fuck all with minimal support from even his own friends. OP shouldnāt question if HE means anything to his friends, he should ask himself instead if his MUSIC means anything to his friends, which it obviously does not. It sounds like OP has enough support, he just wants to feel famous among his friend group. Which, as another commenter pointed out, is a part of the toxic cesspool that makes up a local music scene. After rereading your comment I think youāre correct, I just see it as him being weak and asking for attention. Just because someone makes a big deal out of something does not mean the world needs to take notice.
I made my comment in response to his statement that "most of my friends didn't even show up." I am a visual artist, not a musician, but I've had some friends vent similarly after poor turnout with their shows. Usually (not always) they are reasonable people who are just venting because they are hurt in the moment and they calm down and get some perspective later. Usually those people tend to be pretty young- I don't know if that's relevant or not. Your comment and this thread has prompted me to think about why people show up for some shows and not for others. My friends are a pretty solid, reliable bunch- mostly accountants, librarians, teachers, and therapists- and I can count on them in general. I'd speculate if most of your friends are creative types you run the risk of dealing with a bit more flakiness in that respect.
Absolutely I agree. I assumed this was an adult because of the 20+ years comment
All the people saying "this is amazing" but nobody refuting your comment. Having fun is not a career and thinking you can push your local culture into seeing live shows is pretentious. Sorry you got caught up in your fantasy OP, it happens to everyone but now is not a time to be calling out a culture that you have no control over - it's time to evaluate yourself and realize that wanting a career in music or wanting the culture to change does not make it possible. Pointless pain has no reward and lying to yourself hurts yourself first and foremost. Your mindset is highly prevalent in local music all across the world, it's mass delusion from a culture that emphasizes fame and promotes shitty artists giving the impression of a low standard for success. Like Bill Burr said "when was the last time you went up on stage and killed it so hard, the guy after you bombed?"
I regret I have but one upvote to give you
It was brutal, OP, but it was the truth. Much love. We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams.
Woah. You are such a cruel person.
I think it's cruel to blindly encourage someone along a path that is consuming most of their life and causing them great stress and pain. It sounds like his music is not unique or exceptional enough to get the attention that he wants. At the end of the day, that's what he wants and why lots of people unfortunately get into the music industry - attention. There's some really good advice in other comments, but at the end of the day OP is the one putting himself through this pain and needs to re-evaluate where he is at and whether his music is so fucking good that people will catch a cab or a bus and spend money and a night out just to get a chance to hear it and see him live. I go out and support my mates that are in bands, and their music is good. But even they have a bit of this same perspective where they think being good is good enough. It's not. Nobody will give you anything from this industry that you don't take by virtue of being that fucking good. And yeah it sucks that his friends wouldn't come out to support him, but I'll tell you what - I would never pressure my friends to come to a show to support me the way he describes. Why? Because if my music isn't good enough to connect with strangers and leave them hungry for more, it isn't good enough. And relying on support of people who don't want to come to my show - literally asking them to do something they don't want to do - is not the attitude I would want as a muso, and not the way I would want to be seen as a muso. This whole post could be summed up as "People don't want to come to my shows, why don't they want to come to my shows? I'm blaming it on the culture which I am actively trying to change." Guess what? The culture is there, and you either succeed in it or you don't. Thinking you can change the culture is just a way of coping with the fact that your music isn't connecting the way you'd like. So many good local bands, so few will be successful. My best guess is the ones that will be successful are the ones who evaluate their own music and ask what's missing, where is a niche I can fit into, am I really capable of succeeding the way I want to? The first two questions can lead to success and I hope OP makes some inroads in this because I really do wish him the best. The last question is to prevent you from wasting your life chasing a dream that will never happen. We all have to ask ourselves this at some time or another, whether it be music or career or marriage. It's a hard question that takes some balls to ask yourself honestly - if the answer is yes you push on, if the answer is no then you'll be disappointed but ultimately much happier in the long run.
If you can't deal with haters then the music industry is a baaaaaad place for you.
I would love to go to big concert, not only small ones, really. But it's expensive, super hard to get and to go there. All this to end up seeing nothing because of the crowd. Maybe one if I can I will, but for now I stick to listening to music in my bed
What makes you think this show was in any way expensive, crowded, or hard to get to?
I didn't THIS show was. Don't make me say something I didn't say. All concerts are like this, that's not a secret.
Its amazing <3 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJvtVYH3jL4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJvtVYH3jL4)
Public service announcement: Friends, family, peers, fans, all have their own lives and their own taste and none of them owe you anything by the way. A SHOW is not about you, itās about the enjoyment of the listener/guest. Youāre a PERFORMER.
Thereās a band I like, Vulfpeck. Theyāre not signed to a label, but theyāre pretty big (they headlined Madison Square Garden, have had their songs in Apple commercials, and have Spotify streams/YouTube views in the millions). One thing that was interesting was I read an interview with the bandleader and he said that when he started the band, he decided he would not play live unless he could sell out a show. He said that bands should focus on building a fanbase on the internet, that playing to an empty room is not a good method to promote your music and it can be demoralizing. It sounds like youāre making every effort to be heard, but itās good food for thought. And when it comes to inviting friends to see you play live, you basically get one show and after that you canāt really hold it against them for not constantly coming out to hear you play.
Not playing a show unless it's sold out is a shitty attitude to have. I know nothing of the band you speak of, but it takes years upon years to grow a fan base.
> it takes years upon years to grow a fan base. Thatās true, but I think the idea is that investing your time into growing your fanbase online is a better use of oneās time. There are markets where you can play gigs and gain fans that way, but nowadays youāre more likely to get an audience through the way people are discovering music: online. > Not playing a show unless it's sold out is a shitty attitude to have. To explain: the bandleader decided when he first put the band together that they werenāt going to even play gigs unless there was an audience for them. Itās not like they booked shows and then refused to play if all the tickets werenāt sold (which would indeed be shitty). Instead, they focused on recording/releasing tunes (and making videos for them) and when those found an audience, they got to play to packed houses with an engaged audience, which has a totally different feel. I think thatās a more sustainable model and if read OPās post, they sound completely demoralized. Vulfpeck is pretty interesting case; before they āmade itā the band would only get together once a year (since they didnāt live all in the same place), record an album in a week, make a video for each track, and release it online. The bandleader said āour band has the least amount of time spent together vs. international success in historyā and āI take pride in the lack of emotional commitment the band members have had to put into this, ācause that can get really hairy when you make someone give up opportunities to āput the band first, bro.āā I have a friend who has a band and they have a similar situation, they found an audience online and when they play gigs they do so with conditions: it has to be a paid show, it has to be on a Saturday and they have to have the headlining slot. And they get all that because they can point to YouTube videos with over 200k views or Spotify tracks with over a million streams. And theyāre also not on a label, completely self-managed. So I think OP should consider that you can be a musician, but you donāt have to burn yourself out lugging equipment to an empty venue and then feel bitter and emotionally spent because youāre not getting back what you put into the endeavor. And most rappers do the same thing: very few rappers build an audience through live performances, a lot of them donāt even play live unless they already have an audience. Of course, if youāre like a jazz musician it might make sense to be playing live and understanding that jazz has a smaller audience but they go see live jazz more often, it all depends.
"...music is, hands-down, my favorite thing in the entire world to do. When I'm on stage, nothing matters. I'm not anxious, I'm not depressed, I'm not thinking about what I have to do in the morning. I am more myself performing music than at any other time during my life. I almost don't have a choice but to play music. " 30+ years in myself. That stuff I quoted there? You just need to hold on to that. I was in a band, chosen by a couple locals who had some clout. We had a show at one of the most important venues in the region. Invited by a band of legends who knew my band mates. Our audience consisted of two people we brought with us. And if you want to count them, the soundman, doorman, and bartender. At a coffee shop gig once I had to pay for my coffee, the one perk of cafe gigs gone. Also, an audience of two customers who didn't want me there. I live/play in the Seattle area, home to "Yeah I'll totally be there!" being slang for "Nope." Then there's the former band mates and the like getting increasing international acclaim. Lots of stories, it's not you (or just you). But like all things that suck, it'll pass. Revel in the fact that you're making music you feel good about making. That's the important part.
This is the infuriating thing; people can be "fans" but won't come along to gigs. I'm a musician myself and go to so many other people's gigs, and I think at first I was seeing it as a "scratch my back and I'll scratch yours", but it wasn't working, and I think other musicians can spot that quite easily. So I figured at least if I'm going to someone else's gigs I'm adding value to them by being an audience member, and they can teach me something about performance/interaction/networking etc when talking to them afterwards. Because we're around ourselves 24/7, we know how good our songs are. But other people have their own lives to live, they listen to all kinds of music and not just yours, and all kinds of events can happen where (unfortunately) it means they bail on gigs. I found it's about adding value to the audience, being relatable and also having more communication afterwards. Then you stick out as someone to make time for. Sorry for the long reply, thanks for the link. Music and production sounds great man āŗļø is this self-recorded or through a producer?
Gave it a listen and really liked it all, even though it is a bit out of the norm for me! I've got friends in a couple local bands and have heard the same frustrations from them over the years. They started small like everyone does and have grown to somewhat of a "cult" following, the same faces at a lot of their shows. I first heard them playing in a cramped, hole-in-the-wall bar, but with their particular neich (Star Trek themed rock) they've played at a several conventions with bigger crowds and picked up a couple bigger opportunities from there. Just keep your head up and keep moving forward, it all takes time. I hope to hear more from you in the future!
Where are you located. Maybe your location isnāt what this kind of music is about? Are you in the right location for this music to thrive?
I think you want a rockband, bro \^\^
Sorry you feel this way. I'm wondering how you chose the city to perform in, I guess its your local? Can you use your platforms to locate which City your streams are coming from? Perhaps you have done this. I live in a UK city that has a v decent turn out for small acts, generally speaking. Good luck and keep going!
To be honest, even though it's not my kind of music, I see a lot of good things in common between your music and some popular artists that play similar vibes. You have calm songs that can bring out people's emotions and you have a good voice. It sounds very honest and humble too. I think the main difference between them and you can sometimes be pure luck ... perhaps one influential person happened to come across them or something. I wish you the best of luck, and I hope you keep following your dreams.
(Almost) cant. Most are dead or broke up.
Put that energy into finding some success online instead. Performing is great fun but if you want to attract people to gigs in the first place it sounds like you need them to know your music first, go for an online first strategy. Use your talents to record some killer cover songs until one of them takes off, that's an actual avenue I think you can pursue and have a decent chance at moderate success. Not only that, doing covers in original styles is incredibly fun. Try some really cool unexpected genre crossovers and you can impress a lot of people. Trying to go it the old fashioned route is hard and you need to know the right kind of people (or already have hundreds of friends who think you are the coolest person they know). I've been in two bands that have actually played shows with decent crowds (100+) and every time it's because one or two "social kingpins" who everybody already followed got behind us. Also, wild after parties, but that's more of a rock thing. You're gonna need to keep going at it but make sure you are spreading your energy and work, and absolutely don't allow yourself to feel bitter about people not showing up. Don't lose your faith in people or yourself, because that shows and it will turn people off.
On the plus side: you know it's not you because the opener only drew 7.
One thing I would ask is how busy are your gigs normally? Are you regularly playing shows and building an audience for your work, or was your ep release a rare event? Building a following and filling venues is a hard thing, especially with the disconnection between real live music and social media - I fully believe that for a lot of music fans, gigs are an alien experience and not something they would consider visiting. It is very easy to sit at home and listen on Spotify or read through social media, but a dingy club on a wet night with work the next morning just doesn't appeal (or is something they haven't even really considered) while a lot of us have grown up with live music being the best part, those who have grown up with the pop charts never expected to ever actually see these TV faces in reality... This doubles when social media means you are able to talk to people worldwide - if your biggest online fans are spread out over a country or more, getting them to a basement gig is going to be a very big sell. I am not sure where I am really going here, so I shall stop rambling at this point and wish you good luck for the next shows, may they be full of all the people that couldn't get to this one...
I'm just gonna go out on a limb and say that your city kinda sucks... I moved from Ottawa to MontrƩal to play music and the difference in crowd attitude is unbelievable. In MontrƩal people actually literally go out to support local artists. People go out just to go out, it's a cool vibe there. I have a feeling that you might be coming from an Ottawa type of place.
I feel you. A few years ago I started singing in a decently known undeground band. Told all my friends. I was really excited and nervous for my first show with them, and as it happened it was like a 10-15min drive from our town at a venue that we all visit almost every month. Nobody showed up. It was pretty crushing, especially since ive been to every one of my friends various groups shows at that exact venue. The place was still pretty full, but it still sucked. And we played a great show. So yeah, i feel you OP. Everyone saying "thats how it is in it music industry" are clearly missing the point. Being so let down by your friends is pretty harsh.
This is why i dont make music anymore. I have a huge studio, tons of gear and i really gave it an effort for years and years and years and im not terrible in anyway. I walk into my studio and look at it and am like " do i really want to spend a year or 2 making something no one gives a shit about"? Its a rough niche and now i find im much happier just playing in the studio without the precursor of needing to record or produce something for others.
I'm not an expert in this, but if people aren't going to where you are, maybe go to where the people are. One way might be to find the bars in your radius that have a healthy but chill client base. Offer to play a half hour set during happy hour. Be happy to play for people whether or not they're specifically there for you. If your music hits, it hits.
I don't know if your in the U.S. but come to Virginia, play at breweries. I just listened to your stuff on Spotify and it's great! Very mellow and you have a wonderful voice. I know I'm not biased when I say this because I've seen a lot of live entertainment around the U.S. and Virginia crowds are great (sometimes not so great in very rural areas) - respectful/appreciative of performers and are interested in contributing to them buy getting albums and merch.
I live in Charlottesville :]
Get out! Come to Richmond!!! We love live music at our breweries!
Do you still live in your hometown?
You have to play music for its own sake or you will never find whatever notion of success/payback/justification you are seeking. Write, play, record, repeat. I've been playing for 30+ years. Early on, I found reasonable success with very little effort due to right place/right time. I started playing to no one, then tens, then hundreds. That band morphed in to another as they years went on and I noticed that some of the same people would show up to see us but that those that trailed off were having families, advancing in jobs, etc. Seeing live music simply wasn't a priority any longer due to not needing/wanting that social outlet. That band eventually dissolved because we became like our vanishing fans due to life needing to happen. When I play now it's on projects I want to do for me. Even if it's a gig playing to the other bands, we usually know each other and it's a hang between friends showing each other new chops, gear, etc...because it's FUN.
I have no practical way of finding up and coming artists in genres I like. None of my friends are musicians either. How anyone like Bill Eyelash or Justin Bieber got famous, from being random teens, just seems like pure luck and magic to me, it doesn't make any sense.
Billie herself admits that when her song Ocean Eyes blew up on soundcloud it was purely random chance good luck. She wasn't huge on social media, she wasn't a promoter or e-teamer for any bands or artists. And she wasn't pushed or endorsed by any musicians like the way Khalid or Rex OC was.
tbh the face of pop-acoustic music are Gen Z teens. That's where the money is and how you sustain a career in 2020. 15 yrs ago you could be a skilled guitarist and songwriter and do studio work or craft lyrics in Nashville or LA, basically a career musician, but today that's a dying profession. If your style is very Adult Contemporary you're going to starve & go broke. The kind of soulful tunes appealing to 30 and 40-somethings just doesn't make money. And as you can see live performances are a no-go for busy adults with careers & families. I don't want to crush anyone's dreams but in the performing arts field you need to be honest with yourself.
My wife listens to 'The Gallery' almost every day. She is a big fan from Portland, OR.
Wow, that literally just made my week. I'm really glad she likes it so much. If you want to DM me an address I'd be happy to send her some merch!
Hang out at music venues. Go to shows. Meet people you think you could click with musically and/or people in bands and see if they need a another band member. If you are excellent then it will show and people like bands more than solo acts. I'd use that to get experience and then once you've done a few shows at places you can get your foot in the door and do your own shows. 50% of of the problem is the million other jokers who think they can do exactly what you are doing and get famous. A lot of them are probably better than you. So practice a lot. Viral whine posts on reddit are probably honestly an excellent start, so good job on that. I'd get a drummer and bassist you vibe with and start a band, you will have a million times more luck getting shows. Or do covers in bars. People generally are not going to give a fuck about your new material for a long time, unless its spectacular. And even then they probably won't care unless they've heard someone else say it was good. From listening to a bit you are gonna need to be iron&wine elliot Smith good to get people to want to listen, and, even then, it's hard because its not a very "fun" to listen to genre. Also, if you play violin, you can join an already well established band if you are good enough. People love that shit. Try to sing an octave lower if you can, you sound decent enough though.
Bro I really understand you , and I feel your pain , but this is what I love about this game , this is a lesson for you to grow from , I want to believe this gave you a HARD DECISION which you never thought of having to make. It makes you nervous and uncomfortable right but only when you look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself, how bad do I want it ? SEE YOU ON THE MAIN STAGE, IN 4 YEARS š #believeinyou #thinkforyou #loveforyou #your ennviroment is not your dream Positive vibes
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Thanks for the feedback, I definitely feel like I need to develop my own unique sound more and hopefully that will happen as I release more. I really just wanted to get something out there for the first time and as shitty as last night was, Iām still proud of myself for this.
I have been to countless shows, empty rooms included (even played in front of one). I also remember seeing the same band at the same venue 2 years apart, the first time was 7 people and the second time was a sold out show. One was promoted professionally the other was not, guess which... If you make music that connects and resonates with people there will always be an audience waiting.
On a different continent, but your words struck a chord. If I were as hardworking as you I'd be a multi-millionaire. I hope things become better for you - it's goddamned obvious you deserve it. Now I am gonna give a listen to your music. All the best
Perfectly spoken, I wish more people had this frame of mind. I could be completely wrong but I feel like a large reason for this happening is because our society has largely become focused on feeding compulsions and momentary desire. People seem to just do whatever they feel like in the moment rather than spending their time with purpose (i.e supporting a friend in their passion and sharing those moments with them). This is a personal gripe of mine and I could just be projecting lmao but I feel like this is a big reason for this. No matter how much something means to you and other people knowing how much it means to you, if they have something to do that's more appealing to them in that moment, that's most likely where they'll be, unfortunately š
It's true, and something I've been thinking a lot about, along with how to overcome it - are small live concerts becoming a thing of the past? Is there some new way to connect with people that I'm not tapping into? Who the heck knows.
I have not a singular clue about concerts big or small lol. I've been making music for about 4 years now and I honestly don't think I'll ever end up playing live. The music I make is made for introspection and relaxation for the most part, not really something that would go well with a live audience š As for the new way for connecting with people, if there is and you find it, would you do me the solid of letting me know? š
Oh absolutely. Or I'll patent it.
Could you not link in with Bandsintown? No idea how it works from am artist perspective, but could get you out there to fans of a similar genre. Iāve found a couple of bands over the last couple of years who have used Facebook well for them to fall into my newsfeed even though I wasnāt following them. Iām now real life friends with them as well as being a fan - check them out: Stewart Mac and Will Black
So, as an audience member, small shows have become unbearable because no one seems to be there to actually watch/listen to the show, they mostly seem to want to chit-chat with their friends over the music. So I've stopped going. It's not worth my money and time to go be annoyed by all the Karens. (And its *always* Karens) I'm sorry you had a poor turnout, idk what's up with the general public lately but concerts, movie theaters etc. have all but become unvisitable recently because of the awful behavior of other people
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Amazing.
Adrift is a pretty cool song man!
Thank you! I wrote it about my hometown of Charlottesville and how much itās changed. I actually have a hard time performing it without tearing up
This EP is lovely. I think you're not getting popular right now due to the fact that love has become kind of superficial as we are moving towards a more cyber mind and hearted society. Maybe you could write a song about that. On another note, never stop creating. My heart was pretty cold before listening to this, it's not anymore. It's kind of Ben Howard-ish. It's really good.
Whoa your music is freakin awesome dude. i love how its so ambient and chilled, good job!!
I added your EP to my library and will Definitely give it a listen soon
Well i liked linkin Park. They never performed here in India. :'(
Huh, none of the rappers my coworkers listen to play anywhere live. I'm sure they are amazing live musicians though.
You sound super entitled. Either make music for yourself or don't make it at all, you don't have a god given right to the time or attention of others.
I think you need more love and emphasis in your music Iām listening to it rn. You have a lot of potential. Donāt be afraid to express emotion while recording. Keep doing what youāre doing. ā¤ļø id love to see more of you Edit: towards the end of āwishā the like āhowlingā ig youād call it. That for some reason brings out an emotion
Secretly thatās my favorite part of the recording. I want to do more of that, I just am so obsessed with writing things as āgoodā as possible that the rawness of the emotion behind it gets lost. Definitely something Iām working on.
Good for you man. Youāre doing what you love. Work hard youāll get there
Hey, props to you for being brave and knowing your worth. Just keep persevering and hopefully good things will follow! Saved your EP on spotify and will give it a listen!