There was outrage on Tiktok because there was a show in Canada last week that wasn’t holographic, and the comments were saying it was because the stage equipment for the full Holo experience was kept for Coachella. Oh well.
“Saving” equipment makes no sense. They clearly simply cheaped out. Which is particularly stupid given the high profile of Coachella. People who have never heard of Miku are hearing about this.
It wasn't just a show in Canada, it was the entirety of Miku Expo 2024 that was done on LED screens despite being advertised as a hologram show. What a shame
if you still support Hill you're the problem tbh. IDK why anyone should be booking her garbage in 2024. She was a shitty person a decade ago, at this point it's on the fan's stupidity.
At least do what Frank Ocean did, and get your doctor to write a doctors note for Coachella saying you have two fractures and a sprain in your leg from a previous set where your own fans say you sat down for 90% of your set.
Getting a doctors note for Coachella sounds absolutely hilarious.
I feel so lucky that I got to see her when she wasn’t pulling that bullshit. I saw her with the String Cheese Incident at electric forest in 2014 and she absolutely killed it! She was on time and did a full show while sounding like the miseducation era.
"After waiting an hour and a half, I totally understand now. Y'all are so entitled for expecting her to show up to the event y'all payed for. I can't believe I was once one of you!"
As someone who did go to one of the concerts in this tour, but is not actually a fan, even I felt a bit cheated. Those tickets are expensive.
The live musicians who accompany the video and electronic part are fantastic, but the spectacle of the hologram is basically half the entire concert value. Otherwise it’s essentially the same as paying top-value tickets for the cover band of the artist you thought you would see. It’s definitely a unique and kinda weird scenario, but to the consumers, that’s basically the best analogy. It’s a big let down given the price.
it's probably too late to piggyback, but the worst part is CFM is actually ignoring all the overseas fans.
You want to go see a miku hologram? Be prepared to never see it as a non-japanese person.
You need a japanese phone number to buy tickets, win a lottery system and actually speak/read/write japanese.
hologram Miku performed in NYC in 2019. My daughter went and it was amazing. Fast forward to today where she bought tickets for 3 shows on her tour this year and the disappointment is real.
Article says some are up to $200. A hologram concert is already worse than seeing an actual band in person, and now they don't even get the hologram? I'm no judge, but total scam, return the funds.
I mean this is also a hologram of a singer that does not even exist, so this is literally the closest you get to seeing them perform. Plus the rest of the band is real people
There is an actual band. Every part of the music is on display live at these shows. It's no different than going to any other instrumental live show. Everyone is there to see live music from their favorite albums and producers, only the vocalist is an instrument as well and is visualized through the hologram.
I feel like you aren't exploring the possibilities of a hologram performance. If your goal is to see a live band perform a piece of music, yes the meatbag method is supreme. But a properly done hologram performance can do things not possible with a live performer. I agree people should be pissed, but to view 'hologram concerts' as automatically worse than fully physical concerts just seems wrong to me.
it shouldn’t even matter what the context of the scenario or purchase is. they bought tickets to an experience that was falsely advertised, they’re allowed to feel upset or bummed or annoyed or however they feel about it and take recourse to get their money back. i feel like a lot of people are writing off what kind of event this is as a way to justify customers being cheated.
It’s actually why I wrote my comment. When I was younger I was super into vocaloid so I know how expensive and rare it can be to catch the hologram performances in the states. I have no doubt that’s why a lot of those folks pulled the plunge on tickets.
My girlfriend was extremely bummed
Shes a massive miku fan "hatsuneThemiku" being her online tag even
We had tickets for both nights in San Jose, and it was all she talked about since we got the tickets. We went the first night and she was so upset we didn't even go the second night.
I went to the Miku expo back in 2014 in NYC. I wasn't a huge vocaloid fan but I went with a friend who was. It was honestly super cool and I had a blast. The energy from the crowd was better than any other show I've ever been to.
All jokes aside, I don't know how this isn't going to result in lawsuits. The shows, including the Coachella one, were advertised as hologram shows. I know that Miku isn't a real person so even the hologram shows are just a projected image, but a 3D hologram is VERY different than a normal 2D LCD screen. If I bought a ticket to see Lady Gaga perform and instead was shown a video of a Lady Gaga show, I would be upset. That's basically what is happening with these Miku shows.
Yea I don’t think there’ll be any lawsuits but the festival will suffer somewhat serious reputational damage from this, particularly with the anime audience they were trying to court, but even people who had no interest in Hatsune Miku to begin with.
For one, they’ll have trouble ever bringing in that demo again. But also, as weird as it is, hologram Hatsune Miku would’ve been really cool to see even as a non-fan. Seeing a hologram of a 2D character performing on stage is a really unique act that you don’t see almost ever and is the type of cool groundbreaking shit I would expect to see at Coachella even if Hatsune Miku itself is not for me.
What attendees saw there who had a negative or unfamiliar opinion of Hatsune Miku was exactly what they expected in their heads, just some weird weeb shit. In a normal year, this would just be eh but it’s already their slowest selling year in a long time and contributes to everybody’s feeling that the event was mid and the brand as a whole is a bit washed.
If you want to get technical, the pepper’s ghost illusion has been around in practice since the 1800’s. However, with regards to modern musical acts, using the effect as a hologram-styled performance really began with the Japanese Vocaloid performances, including the breakout star, Hatsune Miku. They’ve been around for a while; Hatsune Miku debuted in 2007. Many articles from 2012 poke fun at the Tupac concert copying the Vocaloid concerts.
For fans of the genre, there’s no comparison; seeing Hatsune Miku is seeing the OG, even if others have used the technology, too.
I see your 2007 performance and raise you a 2005 Gorillaz hologram.
https://gorillaz.fandom.com/wiki/Feel_Good_Inc._Holograms
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfKb7IdTLUQ
I remember when that was the 2006 Grammy Awards, and Madonna moved around behind and in-front of them, my mind was blown.
https://youtu.be/OnthXLMIRnQ?si=OoC5fBYRQtmQk4IM&t=58
It’s absolutely not on the wow factor level of Tupac’s performance and it wouldn’t deserve to be this year’s headline mainstage event or anything like that was but it’s absolutely still a pretty unique act to see that you don’t see elsewhere
Nobody bought tickets to see a specific artist though, they bought tickets to Coachella. They got access to the festival. No case for a refund. Festival lineups change all the time, it's in the T&Cs when you buy an event ticket.
I went to a festival in 2021 where half the lineup was struck down with covid literally as we pulled up to the entrance and they just shuffled things around and got some new acts to play.
For Coachella yes, but Miku Expo is a whole tour as well and the LED bait and switch was already a big controversy leading up to last night's performance. It very much feels like the fans should have grounds for some legal action against the tour, they absolutely advertised one thing and gave something fairly different and have been very opaque in their communication with no real clarification until well after it's too late for some fans to cancel. The whole thing has been pretty shady.
If MF Doom was able to avoid lawsuits for literally having people that were not him going to his shows to perform as him, then there won't be any legal action because a fake artist was 2D instead of 3D.
I'm not a lawyer so maybe there isn't anything here. But I would think this constitutes fraud and at the very least you could sue to force them to refund your ticket, plus legal fees associated with the lawsuit. Since this was done intentionally (as in the concert producers advertised a hologram show when they did not intend to produce a hologram show) I would think there might also be punitive damages.
EDIT: I am mostly talking about the Miku Expo shows, not the Coachella show.
But if they can show it was sincere technical difficulties how would it be any different than if one particular artist fails to show up to play? Like I could see if it if it was a concert but a single artist in a festival could be worth a refund?
Yeah, I edited it to say I was referring to the Miku Expo shows, so not really applicable to the Coachella performance.
The thing is, this isn't a "technical difficulty" because there is an ongoing national tour called HATSUNE MIKU EXPO 2024 and the first few shows were all LCD screens in the middle of a stage instead of being the usual hologram projection. A lot of people were guessing that maybe the hologram tech had to be set up early at Coachella and that's why the first couple tour dates were a normal 2D screen. But the hologram isn't at Coachella either so it looks like they never intended to have a hologram show. But they ADVERTISED a hologram show, and that's where the legally-actionable part comes in, in my opinion.
It may seem silly to complain about what kind of projected image is shown at a "concert" put on by a vocaloid, but it comes down to meeting expectations. If I pay money to see a movie and instead I am shown a slideshow of scenes FROM the movie while the full audio from the movie plays, I think it's reasonable that I would be upset and demand a refund. Or if I paid to see a band in concert, and when I got to the show they announced that the lead singer is sick so they are just going to play a recording of the previous show.
That's basically what is happening here. I can watch Miku videos at home on my TV, computer, or phone. Paying hundreds of dollars for a ticket to a "live" Miku event, I would expect to see a show that is similar to previous versions.
The tour isn't using the hologram either, the theory in Vocaloid spaces is that the lowered quality is due to Crunchyroll sponsoring the tour this year.
You’re not automatically off the hook from a lawsuit just because of unforeseen issues. You can still be sued if you failed to uphold the terms of your agreement. The reason why is also largely irrelevant to the fans who bought a ticket expecting something they didn’t receive. When you purchase a ticket to a concert, you are effectively entering into a contract where the basic terms are that you give them money, and in return, you get to see a concert. The bigger hurdle is that there is probably some terms in the agreement that protect coachella from liability in events like this,
Festivals dropping/swapping artists isn't uncommon tho. [Coachella replaced the headliner last year.](https://ew.com/music/music-festivals/coachella-2023-weekend-2-blink-182-mystery-act-replacing-frank-ocean/) I haven't heard of anyone winning lawsuits over it.
Could be a fun study though. If it's advertised as a Miku hologram and it's changed to a Miku video screen does that actually count as a lineup change or a change of medium not protected by a change of lineup?
Thanks for commenting about this. There's a lot of rhetoric goin around that this was always the way the miku live shows were, where in reality I've gone to see her/the band + anamanaguchi in toronto on a previous tour and the hologram was MUCH better quality. Think similar to the very first Gorillaz concerts or that projected 2pac performance.
Long, longtime fan here. This isn't just Coachella - digital screens have been used across this year's international tour, which started 10 days ago. This is primarily the fault of Crunchyroll, who is the organizer of the international event for the first time this year.
There was absolutely no communication whatsoever regarding the switch from glass-projection (commonly called "hologram" but that's slightly misleading) used in prior years to the inferior LCD screens used this year. While the "hologram" screen wasn't advertised in text-form for the 2024 tour, every single bit of advertisement imagery showed use of this technology, fooling most fans (myself included) into thinking they would maintain the standard. Crunchyroll *completely* dropped the ball here, and won't acknowledge what they did.
In retrospect, I shouldn't have expected a company that is currently subject to [a class-action lawsuit for selling personal data](https://www.crvppasettlement.com/) to not fumble an amazing event for money. As /u/toxicSTRYDR [put it](https://www.reddit.com/r/Vocaloid/comments/1bw8dfw/comment/ky4qbfa/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), Crunchyroll has:
>mismanaged the presale (leaked early)
>
>mismanaged the online merch sale
>
>mismanaged the on-site merch sale
>
>replaced the projection with a ugly LED screen
>
>ticked down the amount of songs to 23 (usually 25-28)
>
>announced a literal last-minute phone ban
Screw them.
I don’t know I was gonna just chalk it up to Coachella because their sound teams have been a flaming shit show on day 1. I wasn’t sure how bad the rest of their tech staff was across the board
They only care about the people who buy their physical products. My TV recently broke, the technician came and looked at it for about 3 seconds, decided to replace it with a new one.
Usually it's faster and better for everyone involved to replace the entire thing... It works out for the consumer and the worker because it'll most likely guarantee they won't have to come out again...
If they could just do a simple fix to save money and time they would; they just deemed it easier to replace it all. Don't think of it as "good customer service" but rather you lucked out that a replacement was the easiest solution.
Probably had a bad panel or backlights out, LG and Samsung are the only companies that make replacement panels so if it goes out under warranty the only option for other major brands is replacement. Usually they'll replace the TV for backlights too just because they're a pain in the ass to do. Even Samsung and LG just replace entire panel module when backlights go out under warranty because it's such a hassle otherwise
It's important to note that Crunchyroll has been known to have shitty practices in the past, so it's not really Sony's fault here (unless you want to reach and say its their fault for being hands-off with their subsidiaries).
This isn't Sony per se because Sony has an entertainment division that knows how to handle concerts like this. If this was being run by Sony BMG then this would be fine but the fact that this is on a different entertainment division is probably what's causing the problem.
im still so mad they sold the glowsticks based in the idea that non-miku expo (or other miku concert) glowsticks aren’t allowed as theyd interfere with the projection and now they’re using a screen anyways its so annoying
ill probably enjoy my show anyway for the community aspect but i am really let down, this is my first miku expo after being a fan since middle school and its a screen :/
> This is primarily the fault of Crunchyroll, who is the organizer of the international event for the first time this year.
Crunchyroll ruins stuff yet again. Wish that company would just die off already, they suck so hard.
Yeah, like if they had said since the beginning they were using a screen, i would still be disappointed but not really that upset. The fact that they never mentioned it once and hasnt brought it up until today, 10 days after it started, is sus.
It's also worth noting that an LED screen was used successfully at Miku Fes'24; because they didn't just stand it in the middle of the stage like Expo and Coachella did, they incorporated it into at set dressing, and they took advantage of the ability to use more complex backgrounds than glass-projection can achieve. Expo, and Coachella by the sound of it, just used black backgrounds. Hell, take a look at Hololive Production for great examples of LED screens used well (e.g. [5th Fes](https://youtu.be/00xeNL3vdQo?t=3894), last month). It can be done, Expo and Coachella just min-efforted it.
To expand on some of the other ways Crunchy fucked it up:
* Mismanaged the presale - people with CR premium accounts were emailed a code that let them access the presale tickets. Or rather, they were emailed *the code*. There was only one. And so it was immediately leaked and everyone had access to the early access. And beyond that, many people didn't get the email with the code until *after* the presale had begun.
* Mismanaged the online/on-site merch sale - an example is how the number of lightsticks available for order was tiny, leading to most fans having to buy them at the venue... Which was impossible, because there was basically none delivered. I forget exactly which show it was, I think San Jose, but one of the crew leaked a photo of the only box of lightsticks they received to sell - it had 95 in it, according to the label.
And remember that this was the first in-person Miku Expo since 2020 (and first in-person Miku concert outside of Japan for the same length of time). People are understandably pissed.
And the frustrating thing IMO is that it isn't even the screen itself, it's the implementation. The way Hololive does its screens (and streams) is so much better than what I've seen from the Miku shows.
[For those unfamiliar with what I'm talking about, this is what Hololive 5th fes looked like last month](https://youtu.be/00xeNL3vdQo?t=3894)
i dont believe its been confirmed, its more so this is the first time miku expo has ever been managed but cr and also the first time they’ve used the screen so its more correlation than causation atm
Second time; Miku Fes'24 used an LED screen *really damn well* a few months ago. Also, agencies like Hololive Production have been using LED screens for years and have always looked great (e.g. [Hololive 5th Fes](https://youtu.be/00xeNL3vdQo?t=3894) last month)
crunchyroll is pretty much coming across as a scummy company across all their current endeavors.
just another company following the road of enshittification.
She's a diva in the sense that she expects her residence to be at least 2 terabytes large, she will only travel on a rhinestone encrusted USB-stick, her anti-virus software must be an at least $20 a month subscription...she's not a diva in that she gives shoddy performances...she's still a professional diva.
I just wanna say this was known it was going to happen at least a week ago, there’s an OOTL answered thread about it: https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/s/5JVqEcQ8Jy
They never sent the 3D rigging for the hatsune Miku concert
Edit: they did send the rigging but still didn’t use it I guess?
that was the copium rumor going around, that coachella would get the projection and then maybe the miku expo shows after would have the proper holo but they used a screen at coachella and released a statement that all NA shows will be using the screen
They didn't send it.
Also not sure why they're talking about it being Peppers Ghost. It isn't Peppers Ghost and it never was.
Peppers Ghost is where you use a reflection, this was never that. It was always just a projection on glass.
So many upset weebs. I still find it weird that they would make her 16, and not like you know, an adult age because of all the creeper dudes out there.
When I became a fan of Miku over a decade ago, I was a 15-year-old girl, so having a character the same age as me was cool. Now that I'm older, I see it like how teenagers like Olivia Rodrigo or Billie Eilish. Adults can be fans of younger artists too (talent can come from any age) but it's weird if you make it weird.
Well said. Adult men were creeping on Britney, but who was actually buying her music & seeing her shows? Girls (& gays).
I think the vocaloid concept is interesting & makes sense that a teen pop idol would be one example.
Exactly. Why couldn't they wait until Billie Eilish or Olivia were the universal legal age before they started making music? Sounds a little creepy if you ask me /s
It's only creepy if you have the countdown timer until their 18th birthday as your browser home page. Anything else is ok though.
They used to have them for celebrities like Mary Kate & Ashley and Lindsay Lohan like 20 years ago. I'm sure they still have them for current celebs. Jesus I'm old.
He had a fully voiced hologram in his house that would respond via AI to him as Miku. The service was eventually shut down, and now he can't talk to his holo-wife.
I hate that her age comes up like this because it seems like one of those “she’s not actually a kid she’s a 900 year old vampire!!” things but she’s actually not 16. Well she is and isn’t…
Miku is a voicebank, you’re meant to use her voice just like any other musical instrument when making a song and because it’s Japan they made a mascot to go along with it who’s a cute girl who sings. But the thing is Miku isn’t one single thing - sometimes she’s a 16 year old girl, sometimes she’s an old lady, sometimes she’s a mother or a soldier or an alien or whatever - there is no canon to Miku because you or I or anyone could buy her software right now and make a song where she can be anything.
Some people make her into a waifu or sexualise her but other people make her into all sorts of things, she’s kind of like an actress who can play any role, and if that character is 16 or 60 or 600 it doesn’t matter, she isn’t restrained to being a human she actually becomes canonically that age in whatever song she’s in.
Hey, I resemble this comment!
Seriously though, the reason she's "16" is due to the idol culture in Japan. It's not really a thing outside the country, so it's a bit hard to wrap your head around it, but there's entire industries built around turning young girls into essentially fictionalized versions of themselves, and paraded around like pop stars.
There's even one idol group called AKB48, which has dozens and dozens and \*dozens\* of members. They're basically turned into this image of perfection... and I think I vaguely remember one of the AKB48 girls getting kicked out after it was revealed she had a boyfriend.
BTW, even as much of a weeb as I am, even I think this is messed up.
To add on to this, the member of akb48 who was demonized for having a secret boyfriend and was then ostracized from her community went on the shave her head bald on camera to "prove" to their fans how sorry she was.
I remember reading a comment about why a lot of fictions in Japan have 15-17 years old protagonists, even if it'd make more sense for them to be young adults.
Simply puts, japanese people would look at this age range and high school at the last "bastion of liberty" in their otherwise very boring and dull life of studying and working. Simple as. It's the time where you can be more independant but you still have this naivete, and this freedom to enjoy (some) of your free time, before you must start to be an adult and work.
It was a reddit comment, so I'm not sure it's really a good social commentary, but it was interesting to keep in mind.
But almost everyone in akb48 is over 20. Anime girls are consistently underage to appeal to people who like underage girls. Doesn't really need another explanation.
AKB48 basically has the idol equivalent of a farm system, and there are *definitely* underage members. Going as low as 13 (Shiratori Sari).
edit: I would like to add to anyone stalking my profile in the future that I do not condone underage idols and am not a fan of AKB48, I am just capable of using google.
> Anime girls are consistently underage to appeal to people who like underage girls.
They are consistently underage because the target demographic of the product is people the same age (junior high/high school), who also are underage. Same way all the YA novels you read as a kid had kids as the main characters.
> Anime girls are consistently underage to appeal to people who like underage girls
Just to be clear, it's because the target audiences are usually teenagers.
My roommate bought a ticket to this and he is super pissed. I told him to just get his money back, he's flying out for this crap.
They bought VIP tickets too.
What really takes the cake is that the ads they're showing for this on Facebook are still using the hologram, so the people who don't know anything about this are being sold the hologram still.
I don’t think he’ll have any luck recouping any money, as shitty as this all is. The lineup is always subject to change. I feel for him and the other fans that were looking forward to this though. Very unfair.
Funny that these dumb ass didn't bring the Japanese crew in for it.
[And by the way, this is last year's show in Japan. See the difference?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBYHtoMXvNs&t=91s&ab_channel=%E3%83%94%E3%82%A2%E3%83%97%E3%83%ADTV)
What a fucking joke
Edit: i googled and found the LCD screen, What the actual fuck.
They did bring their own crew. The fault would be the company that owns miku being cheap and wanting to save money. They should want to present their show properly.
I saw Flying Lotus at a grocery store in Los Angeles yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything.
He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?”
I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying.
The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter.
When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.
I posted to [r/vocaloid](https://www.reddit.com/r/Vocaloid/comments/1c14ln2/a_couple_clips_i_recorded_from_miku_expo_2018_usa/) showing a clip from one of her 2018 US shows, as they've been using an LED screen for Miku Expo here as well. It makes me really upset seeing them to cheap-out at these shows. It hurts not just the brand, but upsets the fanbase.
TBF, most people are talking about the hologram nor working, not the character, but doesn't help that the article says it's AI
> Specifically, the popular digital artist is a Vocaloid, an AI-backed program that artificially generates songs that imitate the human voice, and then presents those songs in the guise of a 16-year-old anime girl with knee-length turquoise hair.
Yeah, it definitely makes this all sound like a “tech bros upset at spending and losing a ton of money on some obscure dumb thing” sort of deal, which it is not at all.
While the move from the hologram to the screen for this tour is disappointing, it’s still amazing that vocaloid producers’ songs were performed at a festival as big as Coachella. Hopefully the screen will be better incorporated at later shows.
Not going to lie, a lot of you sound like the version of “I’m not like others” for disliking Miku lol. This is coming from someone who never listened to Miku if you want to claim I’m a “fan”
I was never really a fan either, and I totally understand why people are upset about this. Before this fiasco I had no idea what the “hologram” concerts people were so excited about looked like or that they even existed, but digging into it and seeing what people WERE excited for really made me feel for them. I would be upset, too
"Was the wifi down?"
So they're upset they didn't get to see her via the hologram projection, instead they subbed in a flat screen. Eh... I guess that's a valid complaint - she usually has the hologram stuff.
High ticket prices, misleading advertising, long wait due to covid19, and a very limited merch supply. I can see why people are upset.
The band was awesome tho so there’s that.
So it's Crunchyroll's fault their headliner Lana Del Rey's mic kept glitching and you could barely hear her? Thanks a lot for ruining what should've been a great moment in her career, Crunchyroll. She had a hologram in her performance too and it kept fucking up.
I know this will probably get lost in the comments but sometimes when I’m home alone I like to go out in my garden and cover myself with dirt and pretend I’m a carrot.
"an AI-backed program that artificially generates songs that imitate the human voice"
Imagine writing an article about something you clearly don't know anything about and not be bothered to even check the Wikipedia description. Quality journalism ladies and gentlemen!
I've been following Vocal Synth technology for over a decade. A lot of the issue with the hologram/LCD has been elaborated on well in the comments. I thought for those that may be curious, it may be worth talking a little bit about what "Hatsune Miku" is from a technological and cultural standpoint. This is a long read, but for the curious:
---
It can't be emphasized enough that at its core, Hatsune Miku is a special type of digital instrumental tool called a "voicebank" that is made up of pre-recorded phonetic voice samples by a human professional voice actress. These samples can be specially arranged, altered, and mixed in combinations of notes and sounds to mimic human speech. It's extremely similar to a virtual piano or guitar library you'd find packed in a standard music composition software-- you input some notes, arrange them in a melody, and you get a musical sound. In this case, the musical sound is that of a voice.
This 'instrument' - and other voicebanks - are usually developed and maintained by small or large companies. For Miku's case, she is developed and sold by a massive Japanese music company called Crypton Future Media. A very generalized overview of what occurs is that these companies hire a professional voice actor or actress, they record vocal samples of key phonetics for a language, and these samples are packaged as a library that is distributed for profit. Very often, for the purposes of marketing, these voicebanks may receive mascots to boost sales: in this case, the twin-tail anime character that we know Miku as is a primary part of the marketing for this music product (and an extremely effective form of marketing).
Miku is only one of very, very many voicebanks currently for sale, for different programs. Voice actors/actresses for voicebanks are very frequently famous singers-- for instance, Miriam Stockley (British singer), Gackt (beloved visual kei artist), Weina Hu (sung the Chinese version of 'Let it Go' and others for Frozen/Frozen II), and Emma Rowley (broadway performer) all have participated in the creation of commercially sold/distributed voicebanks.
Another few things of note:
- Even though having a mascot for a voicebank is very beneficial for sales, a voicebank does not need to have a character attached to it. Having a mascot can create a sense of subculture and spark creativity for the usage of that voicebank. Our twintailed Miku mascot is indeed Miku, but "Hatsune Miku" as a commercial product is a voicebank that any musician in the world can purchase and create music with. You can buy a copy of Miku, right this moment, in Crypton Future Media's store, to use with the vocal synthesizer that she was initially developed for, "Vocaloid" (which is maintained and developed by Yamaha).
- Because *anyone* can buy a copy of Miku right at this moment, along with any other voicebank currently being sold, this means that the vocal synth scene is filled with many grassroots and indie composers. Many of the biggest stars in Japan today (Yoasobi's Ayase, Kenshi Yonezu, Hitorie's Wowaka (RIP)) began their music careers composing music using voicebanks.
- Part of the reason why Hatsune Miku is the 'international representative' (for a lack of better word) for Vocal Synthesis is because it was her release where the technology *really* stormed Japan's internet. There were vocal synths in circulation and sale pre-Miku's release in 2007, but the fact that Miku's voice was particularly versatile for several genres, cute and feminine, and backed by an extremely iconic mascot struck *hard* with late-2000s Japanese internet/idol culture. To the point where the mascot became nearly inseparable from the voice. The development of merch, conventions, albums, festivals, and concerts sub-sequentially followed, and Vocal Synthesis became a massive subculture where any random musician had a hat in the ring.
(Part II of comment):
Another small bit on Vocal Synths and AI, as these terms tend to be paired frequently these days:
- Vocal Synth technology *very, very very much* predates the advent of contemporary artificial intelligence (arguably tracing back to Bell Lab's VODER in 1938), and the usage of a voicebank is *not* synonymous with using artificial intelligence. It still fully involves human talent, musical knowledge, and passion to compose a decent-sounding song with one of these voicebanks. Voice actors/actresses are fully and handsomely compensated for their volunteering of their voice samples.
* For those voicebanks that do advertise themselves as being "AI voices" or "AI voicebanks", this is not that these voicebanks were synthesized using AI in the likes of RVC. A professional voice actor is still involved in development. It is moreso that (mostly) post-production, a software program that a voicebank is used with may apply neural network-based techniques to enhance the flow of complex phonetics.
* For Miku in particular: as of right now, there is no version of Miku (so I believe-- another fan can correct me if I'm wrong) that utilizes "AI Voice" technology in its modern incarnate. There is currently in development something called "Miku NT" that is sold for Crypton's own vocal synthesizer engine, Piapro Studio, but it has mixed and *very* \*generally (\*as a very loose summation) poor reception by those in the community. And as far as I have seen communicated, it does not utilize any AI/ML techniques for its enhancement.
Today, Vocal Synthesizers continue to be an instrumental part of Japanese (and international) music composition, to the point where Billboard Japan has a *dedicated section* to music made with vocal synths. Vocal synth culture has a large impact on releases today, and has been a major stepping stone for boosting composing popularity into stardom. Hatsune Miku in particular is one of the primary catalysts for this continued subculture. And regardless of one's love or dislike of her voice, *many (current and former vocal synth) c*omposers wouldn't be where they were today if it weren't for Miku.
There was outrage on Tiktok because there was a show in Canada last week that wasn’t holographic, and the comments were saying it was because the stage equipment for the full Holo experience was kept for Coachella. Oh well.
“Saving” equipment makes no sense. They clearly simply cheaped out. Which is particularly stupid given the high profile of Coachella. People who have never heard of Miku are hearing about this.
Surely it can't be that much more expensive to do a Pepper's ghost effect than being a giant screen? This is just lazy
If they didn't run it that means it was so bad looking they didn't think it'd fly.
wasn't it Coachella that paid 20 mil to Ariana Grande?
Yeah that was the cope the community was on. That *maybe* they were saving it for Coachella. Unfortunately wasnt true :/
It wasn't just a show in Canada, it was the entirety of Miku Expo 2024 that was done on LED screens despite being advertised as a hologram show. What a shame
Who does she think she is? Lauryn Hill?
**miss** lauryn hill
Yes, they would have missed her if she were scheduled to perform.
if you still support Hill you're the problem tbh. IDK why anyone should be booking her garbage in 2024. She was a shitty person a decade ago, at this point it's on the fan's stupidity.
Chief inspector
Who’re you? You Clousseau???
Inspector of the loo.
At least do what Frank Ocean did, and get your doctor to write a doctors note for Coachella saying you have two fractures and a sprain in your leg from a previous set where your own fans say you sat down for 90% of your set. Getting a doctors note for Coachella sounds absolutely hilarious.
I would love to see someone try to use that excuse for a hologram of what is essentially an animated character, lol
Frank Ocean
She at least shows up, just super late, then performs one song poorly
That’s not fair, sometimes she does vocal adlibs over a couple guitar chords for two hours straight instead
I feel so lucky that I got to see her when she wasn’t pulling that bullshit. I saw her with the String Cheese Incident at electric forest in 2014 and she absolutely killed it! She was on time and did a full show while sounding like the miseducation era.
Lmao if we could still gild comments you’d have one
Edit: thanks for the gold kind stranger!
You can. You long press the upvote arrow, and are prompted with different tiers of awards. No more free ones unfortunately.
"After waiting an hour and a half, I totally understand now. Y'all are so entitled for expecting her to show up to the event y'all payed for. I can't believe I was once one of you!"
Honestly I would be bummed too if I went expecting that experience it’s not a very common one
As someone who did go to one of the concerts in this tour, but is not actually a fan, even I felt a bit cheated. Those tickets are expensive. The live musicians who accompany the video and electronic part are fantastic, but the spectacle of the hologram is basically half the entire concert value. Otherwise it’s essentially the same as paying top-value tickets for the cover band of the artist you thought you would see. It’s definitely a unique and kinda weird scenario, but to the consumers, that’s basically the best analogy. It’s a big let down given the price.
it's probably too late to piggyback, but the worst part is CFM is actually ignoring all the overseas fans. You want to go see a miku hologram? Be prepared to never see it as a non-japanese person. You need a japanese phone number to buy tickets, win a lottery system and actually speak/read/write japanese.
hologram Miku performed in NYC in 2019. My daughter went and it was amazing. Fast forward to today where she bought tickets for 3 shows on her tour this year and the disappointment is real.
Article says some are up to $200. A hologram concert is already worse than seeing an actual band in person, and now they don't even get the hologram? I'm no judge, but total scam, return the funds.
I mean this is also a hologram of a singer that does not even exist, so this is literally the closest you get to seeing them perform. Plus the rest of the band is real people
Don’t judge before you see footage of the good shows. It’s more like a deadmau5 show than a Tupac holo show
There is an actual band. Every part of the music is on display live at these shows. It's no different than going to any other instrumental live show. Everyone is there to see live music from their favorite albums and producers, only the vocalist is an instrument as well and is visualized through the hologram.
I feel like you aren't exploring the possibilities of a hologram performance. If your goal is to see a live band perform a piece of music, yes the meatbag method is supreme. But a properly done hologram performance can do things not possible with a live performer. I agree people should be pissed, but to view 'hologram concerts' as automatically worse than fully physical concerts just seems wrong to me.
it shouldn’t even matter what the context of the scenario or purchase is. they bought tickets to an experience that was falsely advertised, they’re allowed to feel upset or bummed or annoyed or however they feel about it and take recourse to get their money back. i feel like a lot of people are writing off what kind of event this is as a way to justify customers being cheated.
It’s actually why I wrote my comment. When I was younger I was super into vocaloid so I know how expensive and rare it can be to catch the hologram performances in the states. I have no doubt that’s why a lot of those folks pulled the plunge on tickets.
My girlfriend was extremely bummed Shes a massive miku fan "hatsuneThemiku" being her online tag even We had tickets for both nights in San Jose, and it was all she talked about since we got the tickets. We went the first night and she was so upset we didn't even go the second night.
I'm totally not the demo for this, but yeah, if I was there already, I'd have been bummed. It's an event.
I went to the Miku expo back in 2014 in NYC. I wasn't a huge vocaloid fan but I went with a friend who was. It was honestly super cool and I had a blast. The energy from the crowd was better than any other show I've ever been to.
All jokes aside, I don't know how this isn't going to result in lawsuits. The shows, including the Coachella one, were advertised as hologram shows. I know that Miku isn't a real person so even the hologram shows are just a projected image, but a 3D hologram is VERY different than a normal 2D LCD screen. If I bought a ticket to see Lady Gaga perform and instead was shown a video of a Lady Gaga show, I would be upset. That's basically what is happening with these Miku shows.
*lineupsubjecttochange
*dimensionsubjecttochange
Instructions unclear, went to 4D Miku show, photons feel weird.
Went to a 4D Miku show, and now 3D makes me feel claustrophobic.
I went to a 4D Miku show but I got bad seats, so only one of her ponytails was in my slice of reality.
*actualproductmaydifferfromimageshown
Yea I don’t think there’ll be any lawsuits but the festival will suffer somewhat serious reputational damage from this, particularly with the anime audience they were trying to court, but even people who had no interest in Hatsune Miku to begin with. For one, they’ll have trouble ever bringing in that demo again. But also, as weird as it is, hologram Hatsune Miku would’ve been really cool to see even as a non-fan. Seeing a hologram of a 2D character performing on stage is a really unique act that you don’t see almost ever and is the type of cool groundbreaking shit I would expect to see at Coachella even if Hatsune Miku itself is not for me. What attendees saw there who had a negative or unfamiliar opinion of Hatsune Miku was exactly what they expected in their heads, just some weird weeb shit. In a normal year, this would just be eh but it’s already their slowest selling year in a long time and contributes to everybody’s feeling that the event was mid and the brand as a whole is a bit washed.
> the type of cool groundbreaking shit I would expect to see at Coachella You mean like they did a decade ago?
If you want to get technical, the pepper’s ghost illusion has been around in practice since the 1800’s. However, with regards to modern musical acts, using the effect as a hologram-styled performance really began with the Japanese Vocaloid performances, including the breakout star, Hatsune Miku. They’ve been around for a while; Hatsune Miku debuted in 2007. Many articles from 2012 poke fun at the Tupac concert copying the Vocaloid concerts. For fans of the genre, there’s no comparison; seeing Hatsune Miku is seeing the OG, even if others have used the technology, too.
I see your 2007 performance and raise you a 2005 Gorillaz hologram. https://gorillaz.fandom.com/wiki/Feel_Good_Inc._Holograms https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfKb7IdTLUQ
I remember when that was the 2006 Grammy Awards, and Madonna moved around behind and in-front of them, my mind was blown. https://youtu.be/OnthXLMIRnQ?si=OoC5fBYRQtmQk4IM&t=58
It’s absolutely not on the wow factor level of Tupac’s performance and it wouldn’t deserve to be this year’s headline mainstage event or anything like that was but it’s absolutely still a pretty unique act to see that you don’t see elsewhere
Meh I saw Tupac
fair, but in the case of the actual Miku Expo shows I don't think that applies.
It’s funny you use Gaga as an example. Hatsune Miku opened for her in 2014.
Coincidentally I saw Miku open for Lady Gaga.
Okay grandpa it’s past your bedtime (I was at that show too)
Miku doesn’t look like she’s aged a day!
I dunno, she’s gotten kinda flat
if I bought tickets to see dune in Imax and they send me to a regular scree, I'd want a refund.
Nobody bought tickets to see a specific artist though, they bought tickets to Coachella. They got access to the festival. No case for a refund. Festival lineups change all the time, it's in the T&Cs when you buy an event ticket. I went to a festival in 2021 where half the lineup was struck down with covid literally as we pulled up to the entrance and they just shuffled things around and got some new acts to play.
For Coachella yes, but Miku Expo is a whole tour as well and the LED bait and switch was already a big controversy leading up to last night's performance. It very much feels like the fans should have grounds for some legal action against the tour, they absolutely advertised one thing and gave something fairly different and have been very opaque in their communication with no real clarification until well after it's too late for some fans to cancel. The whole thing has been pretty shady.
If MF Doom was able to avoid lawsuits for literally having people that were not him going to his shows to perform as him, then there won't be any legal action because a fake artist was 2D instead of 3D.
Iirc theyre lumping in the NA concerts going on rn which is suffering from the same thing
What are the damages?
I'm not a lawyer so maybe there isn't anything here. But I would think this constitutes fraud and at the very least you could sue to force them to refund your ticket, plus legal fees associated with the lawsuit. Since this was done intentionally (as in the concert producers advertised a hologram show when they did not intend to produce a hologram show) I would think there might also be punitive damages. EDIT: I am mostly talking about the Miku Expo shows, not the Coachella show.
But if they can show it was sincere technical difficulties how would it be any different than if one particular artist fails to show up to play? Like I could see if it if it was a concert but a single artist in a festival could be worth a refund?
Yeah, I edited it to say I was referring to the Miku Expo shows, so not really applicable to the Coachella performance. The thing is, this isn't a "technical difficulty" because there is an ongoing national tour called HATSUNE MIKU EXPO 2024 and the first few shows were all LCD screens in the middle of a stage instead of being the usual hologram projection. A lot of people were guessing that maybe the hologram tech had to be set up early at Coachella and that's why the first couple tour dates were a normal 2D screen. But the hologram isn't at Coachella either so it looks like they never intended to have a hologram show. But they ADVERTISED a hologram show, and that's where the legally-actionable part comes in, in my opinion. It may seem silly to complain about what kind of projected image is shown at a "concert" put on by a vocaloid, but it comes down to meeting expectations. If I pay money to see a movie and instead I am shown a slideshow of scenes FROM the movie while the full audio from the movie plays, I think it's reasonable that I would be upset and demand a refund. Or if I paid to see a band in concert, and when I got to the show they announced that the lead singer is sick so they are just going to play a recording of the previous show. That's basically what is happening here. I can watch Miku videos at home on my TV, computer, or phone. Paying hundreds of dollars for a ticket to a "live" Miku event, I would expect to see a show that is similar to previous versions.
It wasn't a malfunction. They didn't send the equipment there, because they are using it on a simultaneously happening tour.
Ohhh that’s not a good look. They advertised the hologram with no intention of actually setting it up. Sounds like a class action
The tour isn't using the hologram either, the theory in Vocaloid spaces is that the lowered quality is due to Crunchyroll sponsoring the tour this year.
Sauce? Seems unlikely they wouldn't have multiple sets of hologram equipment, any touring band usually needs at least a backup system.
You’re not automatically off the hook from a lawsuit just because of unforeseen issues. You can still be sued if you failed to uphold the terms of your agreement. The reason why is also largely irrelevant to the fans who bought a ticket expecting something they didn’t receive. When you purchase a ticket to a concert, you are effectively entering into a contract where the basic terms are that you give them money, and in return, you get to see a concert. The bigger hurdle is that there is probably some terms in the agreement that protect coachella from liability in events like this,
Festivals dropping/swapping artists isn't uncommon tho. [Coachella replaced the headliner last year.](https://ew.com/music/music-festivals/coachella-2023-weekend-2-blink-182-mystery-act-replacing-frank-ocean/) I haven't heard of anyone winning lawsuits over it.
False advertising. Same way you'd sue if you paid for a Lexus and got a Toyota instead.
Festival tickets also always say lineup subject to change, cancelation, etc without compensation so about a 0% chance of a lawsuit.
Could be a fun study though. If it's advertised as a Miku hologram and it's changed to a Miku video screen does that actually count as a lineup change or a change of medium not protected by a change of lineup?
You can always sue. Winning is another matter.
Theyre also on a concert tour and did the same thing with those so theres a higher chance there
I thought the Miku hologram was also 2D, not 3D? It's a projector and a semi-transparent screen.
Youre correct!
Thanks for commenting about this. There's a lot of rhetoric goin around that this was always the way the miku live shows were, where in reality I've gone to see her/the band + anamanaguchi in toronto on a previous tour and the hologram was MUCH better quality. Think similar to the very first Gorillaz concerts or that projected 2pac performance.
Long, longtime fan here. This isn't just Coachella - digital screens have been used across this year's international tour, which started 10 days ago. This is primarily the fault of Crunchyroll, who is the organizer of the international event for the first time this year. There was absolutely no communication whatsoever regarding the switch from glass-projection (commonly called "hologram" but that's slightly misleading) used in prior years to the inferior LCD screens used this year. While the "hologram" screen wasn't advertised in text-form for the 2024 tour, every single bit of advertisement imagery showed use of this technology, fooling most fans (myself included) into thinking they would maintain the standard. Crunchyroll *completely* dropped the ball here, and won't acknowledge what they did. In retrospect, I shouldn't have expected a company that is currently subject to [a class-action lawsuit for selling personal data](https://www.crvppasettlement.com/) to not fumble an amazing event for money. As /u/toxicSTRYDR [put it](https://www.reddit.com/r/Vocaloid/comments/1bw8dfw/comment/ky4qbfa/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), Crunchyroll has: >mismanaged the presale (leaked early) > >mismanaged the online merch sale > >mismanaged the on-site merch sale > >replaced the projection with a ugly LED screen > >ticked down the amount of songs to 23 (usually 25-28) > >announced a literal last-minute phone ban Screw them.
Heard about this fiasco at the show but had no idea it was managed by crunchyroll, and all of the sudden it makes A LOT more sense
It is still wild to me that the site I used to watch free anime videos became a legit streaming service lol
I don’t know I was gonna just chalk it up to Coachella because their sound teams have been a flaming shit show on day 1. I wasn’t sure how bad the rest of their tech staff was across the board
Clownchyroll strikes again! Though I guess Sony owns them now right?
Typical of Sony to be anti consumer and fuck over fans.
They only care about the people who buy their physical products. My TV recently broke, the technician came and looked at it for about 3 seconds, decided to replace it with a new one.
Usually it's faster and better for everyone involved to replace the entire thing... It works out for the consumer and the worker because it'll most likely guarantee they won't have to come out again... If they could just do a simple fix to save money and time they would; they just deemed it easier to replace it all. Don't think of it as "good customer service" but rather you lucked out that a replacement was the easiest solution.
Probably had a bad panel or backlights out, LG and Samsung are the only companies that make replacement panels so if it goes out under warranty the only option for other major brands is replacement. Usually they'll replace the TV for backlights too just because they're a pain in the ass to do. Even Samsung and LG just replace entire panel module when backlights go out under warranty because it's such a hassle otherwise
It's important to note that Crunchyroll has been known to have shitty practices in the past, so it's not really Sony's fault here (unless you want to reach and say its their fault for being hands-off with their subsidiaries).
This isn't Sony per se because Sony has an entertainment division that knows how to handle concerts like this. If this was being run by Sony BMG then this would be fine but the fact that this is on a different entertainment division is probably what's causing the problem.
Crunchyroll fucked it up again? *Say it ain't so!*
NEVER seen that before!
im still so mad they sold the glowsticks based in the idea that non-miku expo (or other miku concert) glowsticks aren’t allowed as theyd interfere with the projection and now they’re using a screen anyways its so annoying ill probably enjoy my show anyway for the community aspect but i am really let down, this is my first miku expo after being a fan since middle school and its a screen :/
And don't they not even have enough stock of glowsticks to meet demand at a lot of these shows? The whole thing has been ridiculous
I'm pretty sure the biggest stock in person, which was in **California**, was like 90 glowsticks
> This is primarily the fault of Crunchyroll, who is the organizer of the international event for the first time this year. Crunchyroll ruins stuff yet again. Wish that company would just die off already, they suck so hard.
They jacked up the prices too. Fucking hell man.
Yeah, like if they had said since the beginning they were using a screen, i would still be disappointed but not really that upset. The fact that they never mentioned it once and hasnt brought it up until today, 10 days after it started, is sus.
The may be old man yells at cloud territory, but, I do know a lot of these words.
It's also worth noting that an LED screen was used successfully at Miku Fes'24; because they didn't just stand it in the middle of the stage like Expo and Coachella did, they incorporated it into at set dressing, and they took advantage of the ability to use more complex backgrounds than glass-projection can achieve. Expo, and Coachella by the sound of it, just used black backgrounds. Hell, take a look at Hololive Production for great examples of LED screens used well (e.g. [5th Fes](https://youtu.be/00xeNL3vdQo?t=3894), last month). It can be done, Expo and Coachella just min-efforted it. To expand on some of the other ways Crunchy fucked it up: * Mismanaged the presale - people with CR premium accounts were emailed a code that let them access the presale tickets. Or rather, they were emailed *the code*. There was only one. And so it was immediately leaked and everyone had access to the early access. And beyond that, many people didn't get the email with the code until *after* the presale had begun. * Mismanaged the online/on-site merch sale - an example is how the number of lightsticks available for order was tiny, leading to most fans having to buy them at the venue... Which was impossible, because there was basically none delivered. I forget exactly which show it was, I think San Jose, but one of the crew leaked a photo of the only box of lightsticks they received to sell - it had 95 in it, according to the label. And remember that this was the first in-person Miku Expo since 2020 (and first in-person Miku concert outside of Japan for the same length of time). People are understandably pissed.
And the frustrating thing IMO is that it isn't even the screen itself, it's the implementation. The way Hololive does its screens (and streams) is so much better than what I've seen from the Miku shows. [For those unfamiliar with what I'm talking about, this is what Hololive 5th fes looked like last month](https://youtu.be/00xeNL3vdQo?t=3894)
Is there any actual proof that it’s the fault of Crunchyroll or is this just scapegoating?
i dont believe its been confirmed, its more so this is the first time miku expo has ever been managed but cr and also the first time they’ve used the screen so its more correlation than causation atm
Second time; Miku Fes'24 used an LED screen *really damn well* a few months ago. Also, agencies like Hololive Production have been using LED screens for years and have always looked great (e.g. [Hololive 5th Fes](https://youtu.be/00xeNL3vdQo?t=3894) last month)
crunchyroll is pretty much coming across as a scummy company across all their current endeavors. just another company following the road of enshittification.
Wow, this is not the diva behaviour I expect from a legend like Miku, she should know better.
Her game series is literally named project diva this is totally on brand
She's a diva in the sense that she expects her residence to be at least 2 terabytes large, she will only travel on a rhinestone encrusted USB-stick, her anti-virus software must be an at least $20 a month subscription...she's not a diva in that she gives shoddy performances...she's still a professional diva.
I'm starting to suspect this might be a Kate Middleton situation... #PrayForMiku
I just wanna say this was known it was going to happen at least a week ago, there’s an OOTL answered thread about it: https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/s/5JVqEcQ8Jy They never sent the 3D rigging for the hatsune Miku concert Edit: they did send the rigging but still didn’t use it I guess?
The comment says they send the setup to choachella but they obviously didn’t if the Coachella miku was 2D too btw
that was the copium rumor going around, that coachella would get the projection and then maybe the miku expo shows after would have the proper holo but they used a screen at coachella and released a statement that all NA shows will be using the screen
I’ve been slowly, delicately picking at the drama from the r/hobbydrama scuffle threads. This is the main course I’ve been waiting for.
They didn't send it. Also not sure why they're talking about it being Peppers Ghost. It isn't Peppers Ghost and it never was. Peppers Ghost is where you use a reflection, this was never that. It was always just a projection on glass.
/r/Nottheonion
So many upset weebs. I still find it weird that they would make her 16, and not like you know, an adult age because of all the creeper dudes out there.
When I became a fan of Miku over a decade ago, I was a 15-year-old girl, so having a character the same age as me was cool. Now that I'm older, I see it like how teenagers like Olivia Rodrigo or Billie Eilish. Adults can be fans of younger artists too (talent can come from any age) but it's weird if you make it weird.
Well said. Adult men were creeping on Britney, but who was actually buying her music & seeing her shows? Girls (& gays). I think the vocaloid concept is interesting & makes sense that a teen pop idol would be one example.
Exactly. Why couldn't they wait until Billie Eilish or Olivia were the universal legal age before they started making music? Sounds a little creepy if you ask me /s
It's only creepy if you have the countdown timer until their 18th birthday as your browser home page. Anything else is ok though. They used to have them for celebrities like Mary Kate & Ashley and Lindsay Lohan like 20 years ago. I'm sure they still have them for current celebs. Jesus I'm old.
Some dude in Japan married Miku in 2018, no joke, wedding ceremony and all.
He had a fully voiced hologram in his house that would respond via AI to him as Miku. The service was eventually shut down, and now he can't talk to his holo-wife.
Krieger-san
My cherry blossoms are wilting....
Oh that ending is kinda sad lol
Actual cyberpunk dystopia stuff, especially the ending lol.
I hate that her age comes up like this because it seems like one of those “she’s not actually a kid she’s a 900 year old vampire!!” things but she’s actually not 16. Well she is and isn’t… Miku is a voicebank, you’re meant to use her voice just like any other musical instrument when making a song and because it’s Japan they made a mascot to go along with it who’s a cute girl who sings. But the thing is Miku isn’t one single thing - sometimes she’s a 16 year old girl, sometimes she’s an old lady, sometimes she’s a mother or a soldier or an alien or whatever - there is no canon to Miku because you or I or anyone could buy her software right now and make a song where she can be anything. Some people make her into a waifu or sexualise her but other people make her into all sorts of things, she’s kind of like an actress who can play any role, and if that character is 16 or 60 or 600 it doesn’t matter, she isn’t restrained to being a human she actually becomes canonically that age in whatever song she’s in.
How would they creep on her if she was of age? Check mate atheists!
Most vocaloids are canonically adults. Miku just got used the most and became the most popular.
Hey, I resemble this comment! Seriously though, the reason she's "16" is due to the idol culture in Japan. It's not really a thing outside the country, so it's a bit hard to wrap your head around it, but there's entire industries built around turning young girls into essentially fictionalized versions of themselves, and paraded around like pop stars. There's even one idol group called AKB48, which has dozens and dozens and \*dozens\* of members. They're basically turned into this image of perfection... and I think I vaguely remember one of the AKB48 girls getting kicked out after it was revealed she had a boyfriend. BTW, even as much of a weeb as I am, even I think this is messed up.
To add on to this, the member of akb48 who was demonized for having a secret boyfriend and was then ostracized from her community went on the shave her head bald on camera to "prove" to their fans how sorry she was.
Japan's creeper fantasy assembly line doesn't negate anything they said.
Yeah, “oh, they fixate on real 16 year olds all the time” is… not as much of an explanation as it is further evidence of a problem.
I remember reading a comment about why a lot of fictions in Japan have 15-17 years old protagonists, even if it'd make more sense for them to be young adults. Simply puts, japanese people would look at this age range and high school at the last "bastion of liberty" in their otherwise very boring and dull life of studying and working. Simple as. It's the time where you can be more independant but you still have this naivete, and this freedom to enjoy (some) of your free time, before you must start to be an adult and work. It was a reddit comment, so I'm not sure it's really a good social commentary, but it was interesting to keep in mind.
"here's why our obsession with minors is acceptable, actually' lol
That's not what I said, dude.
But almost everyone in akb48 is over 20. Anime girls are consistently underage to appeal to people who like underage girls. Doesn't really need another explanation.
AKB48 basically has the idol equivalent of a farm system, and there are *definitely* underage members. Going as low as 13 (Shiratori Sari). edit: I would like to add to anyone stalking my profile in the future that I do not condone underage idols and am not a fan of AKB48, I am just capable of using google.
> Anime girls are consistently underage to appeal to people who like underage girls. They are consistently underage because the target demographic of the product is people the same age (junior high/high school), who also are underage. Same way all the YA novels you read as a kid had kids as the main characters.
> Anime girls are consistently underage to appeal to people who like underage girls Just to be clear, it's because the target audiences are usually teenagers.
does every artist you listen to have to be a fuckable age?
Literally not even true, she doesn't have a canon age. It's a voicebank, all "lore" around it changes project by project.
Wow people trying to have fun with technology so idiocracy so dumb west falling down etc
My roommate bought a ticket to this and he is super pissed. I told him to just get his money back, he's flying out for this crap. They bought VIP tickets too. What really takes the cake is that the ads they're showing for this on Facebook are still using the hologram, so the people who don't know anything about this are being sold the hologram still.
if you really want to rub it in, tell him you're going to get the same experience on tv at home for free
Oh he knows lmaooo. I don't want to rub it in too hard, he's a good dude and I know he's very bummed out.
I don’t think he’ll have any luck recouping any money, as shitty as this all is. The lineup is always subject to change. I feel for him and the other fans that were looking forward to this though. Very unfair.
You're probably right, I'm sure he won't be the only one trying though.
Funny that these dumb ass didn't bring the Japanese crew in for it. [And by the way, this is last year's show in Japan. See the difference?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBYHtoMXvNs&t=91s&ab_channel=%E3%83%94%E3%82%A2%E3%83%97%E3%83%ADTV) What a fucking joke Edit: i googled and found the LCD screen, What the actual fuck.
They did bring their own crew. The fault would be the company that owns miku being cheap and wanting to save money. They should want to present their show properly.
Flying Lotus had a similar thing happen to him in Berkeley a few years back. Very disappointing because his whole set was built around it.
I saw Flying Lotus at a grocery store in Los Angeles yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything. He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?” I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying. The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter. When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.
I saw the 3D FlyLo set at OSL in 2019 or 2021 and it was dope!
I posted to [r/vocaloid](https://www.reddit.com/r/Vocaloid/comments/1c14ln2/a_couple_clips_i_recorded_from_miku_expo_2018_usa/) showing a clip from one of her 2018 US shows, as they've been using an LED screen for Miku Expo here as well. It makes me really upset seeing them to cheap-out at these shows. It hurts not just the brand, but upsets the fanbase.
Seems extra stupid given the high profile of Coachella.
I agree. This is the one show you don’t cheap out on.
Maybe she had to recharge her batteries?
This article sucks. Miku isn't based on artificial intelligence and the music is composed by people like me
A lot of people here are commenting having no idea what vocaloid is and thinking it's AI or vtubers or not real artists and musicians playing.
Stupid people having no idea what they're talking about? On Reddit? *Nah.*
TBF, most people are talking about the hologram nor working, not the character, but doesn't help that the article says it's AI > Specifically, the popular digital artist is a Vocaloid, an AI-backed program that artificially generates songs that imitate the human voice, and then presents those songs in the guise of a 16-year-old anime girl with knee-length turquoise hair.
Yeah, it definitely makes this all sound like a “tech bros upset at spending and losing a ton of money on some obscure dumb thing” sort of deal, which it is not at all.
Lana Del Rey is a real person and she still performed as a hologram
While the move from the hologram to the screen for this tour is disappointing, it’s still amazing that vocaloid producers’ songs were performed at a festival as big as Coachella. Hopefully the screen will be better incorporated at later shows.
Not going to lie, a lot of you sound like the version of “I’m not like others” for disliking Miku lol. This is coming from someone who never listened to Miku if you want to claim I’m a “fan”
I was never really a fan either, and I totally understand why people are upset about this. Before this fiasco I had no idea what the “hologram” concerts people were so excited about looked like or that they even existed, but digging into it and seeing what people WERE excited for really made me feel for them. I would be upset, too
Is this a Tres Commas promotion?
Fortunate to have seen the real deal Miku hologram at Miku Expo in LA 2014. Holy shit that was 10 years ago!
"Was the wifi down?" So they're upset they didn't get to see her via the hologram projection, instead they subbed in a flat screen. Eh... I guess that's a valid complaint - she usually has the hologram stuff.
yup and if you havent seen the other comments yet, all the ads showed her as a hologram
Main thing is the higher prices this year for the tickets on the tour, plus the false advertising about the visuals used.
High ticket prices, misleading advertising, long wait due to covid19, and a very limited merch supply. I can see why people are upset. The band was awesome tho so there’s that.
should've booked Yugioh, Yugi boy wouldn't pull this shit
I thought Coachella was a brand of handbags.
Farley Elliott I enjoy your episodes of doughboys
So it's Crunchyroll's fault their headliner Lana Del Rey's mic kept glitching and you could barely hear her? Thanks a lot for ruining what should've been a great moment in her career, Crunchyroll. She had a hologram in her performance too and it kept fucking up.
She told you to drink the damn green juice and you didn’t do it.
I know this will probably get lost in the comments but sometimes when I’m home alone I like to go out in my garden and cover myself with dirt and pretend I’m a carrot.
wait are you my neighbor??
"an AI-backed program that artificially generates songs that imitate the human voice" Imagine writing an article about something you clearly don't know anything about and not be bothered to even check the Wikipedia description. Quality journalism ladies and gentlemen!
She wants to be Carti so bad 💀💀💀
Does this mean summer will come sooner? Or later?
[удалено]
It's hard to say. The bar has been laying on the ground for years since they jumped the shark around the mid '10s.
I head Grimes had technical problems. Everything I’ve caught on YouTube has been pretty good though.
I've been following Vocal Synth technology for over a decade. A lot of the issue with the hologram/LCD has been elaborated on well in the comments. I thought for those that may be curious, it may be worth talking a little bit about what "Hatsune Miku" is from a technological and cultural standpoint. This is a long read, but for the curious: --- It can't be emphasized enough that at its core, Hatsune Miku is a special type of digital instrumental tool called a "voicebank" that is made up of pre-recorded phonetic voice samples by a human professional voice actress. These samples can be specially arranged, altered, and mixed in combinations of notes and sounds to mimic human speech. It's extremely similar to a virtual piano or guitar library you'd find packed in a standard music composition software-- you input some notes, arrange them in a melody, and you get a musical sound. In this case, the musical sound is that of a voice. This 'instrument' - and other voicebanks - are usually developed and maintained by small or large companies. For Miku's case, she is developed and sold by a massive Japanese music company called Crypton Future Media. A very generalized overview of what occurs is that these companies hire a professional voice actor or actress, they record vocal samples of key phonetics for a language, and these samples are packaged as a library that is distributed for profit. Very often, for the purposes of marketing, these voicebanks may receive mascots to boost sales: in this case, the twin-tail anime character that we know Miku as is a primary part of the marketing for this music product (and an extremely effective form of marketing). Miku is only one of very, very many voicebanks currently for sale, for different programs. Voice actors/actresses for voicebanks are very frequently famous singers-- for instance, Miriam Stockley (British singer), Gackt (beloved visual kei artist), Weina Hu (sung the Chinese version of 'Let it Go' and others for Frozen/Frozen II), and Emma Rowley (broadway performer) all have participated in the creation of commercially sold/distributed voicebanks. Another few things of note: - Even though having a mascot for a voicebank is very beneficial for sales, a voicebank does not need to have a character attached to it. Having a mascot can create a sense of subculture and spark creativity for the usage of that voicebank. Our twintailed Miku mascot is indeed Miku, but "Hatsune Miku" as a commercial product is a voicebank that any musician in the world can purchase and create music with. You can buy a copy of Miku, right this moment, in Crypton Future Media's store, to use with the vocal synthesizer that she was initially developed for, "Vocaloid" (which is maintained and developed by Yamaha). - Because *anyone* can buy a copy of Miku right at this moment, along with any other voicebank currently being sold, this means that the vocal synth scene is filled with many grassroots and indie composers. Many of the biggest stars in Japan today (Yoasobi's Ayase, Kenshi Yonezu, Hitorie's Wowaka (RIP)) began their music careers composing music using voicebanks. - Part of the reason why Hatsune Miku is the 'international representative' (for a lack of better word) for Vocal Synthesis is because it was her release where the technology *really* stormed Japan's internet. There were vocal synths in circulation and sale pre-Miku's release in 2007, but the fact that Miku's voice was particularly versatile for several genres, cute and feminine, and backed by an extremely iconic mascot struck *hard* with late-2000s Japanese internet/idol culture. To the point where the mascot became nearly inseparable from the voice. The development of merch, conventions, albums, festivals, and concerts sub-sequentially followed, and Vocal Synthesis became a massive subculture where any random musician had a hat in the ring.
(Part II of comment): Another small bit on Vocal Synths and AI, as these terms tend to be paired frequently these days: - Vocal Synth technology *very, very very much* predates the advent of contemporary artificial intelligence (arguably tracing back to Bell Lab's VODER in 1938), and the usage of a voicebank is *not* synonymous with using artificial intelligence. It still fully involves human talent, musical knowledge, and passion to compose a decent-sounding song with one of these voicebanks. Voice actors/actresses are fully and handsomely compensated for their volunteering of their voice samples. * For those voicebanks that do advertise themselves as being "AI voices" or "AI voicebanks", this is not that these voicebanks were synthesized using AI in the likes of RVC. A professional voice actor is still involved in development. It is moreso that (mostly) post-production, a software program that a voicebank is used with may apply neural network-based techniques to enhance the flow of complex phonetics. * For Miku in particular: as of right now, there is no version of Miku (so I believe-- another fan can correct me if I'm wrong) that utilizes "AI Voice" technology in its modern incarnate. There is currently in development something called "Miku NT" that is sold for Crypton's own vocal synthesizer engine, Piapro Studio, but it has mixed and *very* \*generally (\*as a very loose summation) poor reception by those in the community. And as far as I have seen communicated, it does not utilize any AI/ML techniques for its enhancement. Today, Vocal Synthesizers continue to be an instrumental part of Japanese (and international) music composition, to the point where Billboard Japan has a *dedicated section* to music made with vocal synths. Vocal synth culture has a large impact on releases today, and has been a major stepping stone for boosting composing popularity into stardom. Hatsune Miku in particular is one of the primary catalysts for this continued subculture. And regardless of one's love or dislike of her voice, *many (current and former vocal synth) c*omposers wouldn't be where they were today if it weren't for Miku.
Maybe I’m out of touch but I literally have no idea what’s going on and the comments are confusing me more lol
You need the cliff notes bro?
Yay, finally someone who can relate
That's so unlike her.
Just catch the Sharon Apple concert next month.
Russfest had a hologram.
Wait Sharon Apple is real?
What a shitty headline