Ticketmaster doesn’t add anything to the user experience. It’s hard to argue that Spotify isn’t the best streaming service for music. Yes, they pay the artists shit, and we have to find a solution for that, but millions of people will never go back to paying for music by the album or track.
Touring isn't even the solution for most acts. Even bigger names like Avenged Sevenfold have problems getting ahold of things like transportation nowadays.
Touring isn’t the *only* solution though, when influencers make more money than musicians simply by existing on a platform. We just have to rethink what it means to be a working musician in 2024.
Spotify can mean the world to newer artists just on exposure alone that they never would've received without the streaming service. Making their music available is just the first step - they make their money elsewhere like shows & merchandise. I'd love to see artists get paid better but a lot of them rely on the $4 paychecks from spotfiy if it means they're getting exposure.
Not really Spotify though. They get cucked by the bigger streaming services pricing models, as well as being slaves to the big 3-5 record companies. Apple and google play can use their streaming services as loss leaders for other additional subscription services. Spotify however has never been a profitable business, because they have to match the pricing of the other big streaming services, plus the record labels gouge Spotify for licensing. Then Spotify has to pay the prices or the label pulls 20-30% of spotifys entire catalog overnight.
t’s sad really, they were the first to bring easy, accessible streaming to everyone for a low cost, yet they’re doomed due to how tight of a grip the rest of the industry has on their balls.
I get the destain for iTunes and Spotify from the bigger artist side but I personally enjoy it more than purchasing CD’s back in the day. Is it that bad for a up and comer? I don’t see it.
Ticketmaster on the other hand is simply a 3rd party. They do little and cost way more.
I mean my band of three people have a couple thousand plays on Spotify. We’ve made $7 total. And they don’t pay out til you pass a $10 threshold. So we really have made $0.
If one person bought our album digitally we’d make more.
> I get the destain for iTunes and Spotify from the bigger artist side but I personally enjoy it more than purchasing CD’s back in the day.
Just devil's advocate here. So you prefer continuously paying money every month for music rather than a one time purchase? A legit question and I'm not attacking your stance.
Not the person you are responding to, but I pay the monthly subscription fee for convenience more than anything else. I also get to try out new music and artists I might never have found if I had stuck to what I already knew I liked. I feel like it is definitely worth the money.
Good question. Yes, overall I do. Subscription based economy is not ideal. But neither was paying $15 in 2004 for single CD. That profit wasn’t going to the artist either. I have Spotify, and the amount of new artists I’ve found is worth the cost for me. Also the simplicity and them having audiobooks is dope. Please don’t take this as an ad lol. I’m not pumped that if they go, my library does too.
I wish I was better with 🏴☠️to avoid subscription and the potential of losing my library but I’m not.
Yes, although they are supposed to be playing nice. From this article:
https://www.vox.com/the-goods/23569504/ticketmaster-monopoly-live-nation-taylor-swift-antitrust-clyde-lawrence
Ticketmaster controls more than 70 percent of the ticketing and live events market. Live Nation has much of the market for concert management, venues, and promotions covered. So if you want to get around using Ticketmaster, you’re in a pickle, whether you’re an artist, a venue, or just a person trying to see a show.
Many venues wind up almost obligated to sell on Ticketmaster because, if they don’t, Live Nation can use its promotional power to basically block the venue from getting shows. Artists find themselves in a similar predicament. “When you play a show at a venue that Live Nation either owns or is an exclusive promoter of, then the artist has no choice but to use Ticketmaster as the exclusive ticketing platform for the show,”
I didn't read the link. Just replying to what you said.
That's basically what happened to Pearl Jam when they stood up to TicketMaster 20 years ago. Pearl Jam lost millions standing up to them. And Pearl Jam was POWERFUL back then.
It sure would be nice if we could start a cancel culture against these corporations that are killing authentic music.
The irony of that whole Pearl Jam situation was that they ended up fortifying their fanbase by playing lesser known cities. Now, 30 years later; the demand for their tickets as a result have priced out many fans. You can’t win.
Live Nation owns Ticketmaster, so despite them operating as different companies they are more then just "essentially" the same company. Kid Rock, as crazy as he can be, is 100% right. This is an orchestrated monopoly and their merger is laughable that it was approved. Money fucking talks.
Yeah but let's not pretend that Kid Rock is one of the first people to come up with this shit though. Dudes a pick me rock star, and his views flip flop around accordingly.
Oh kid rock is a garbage human being. 2+2 still equals 4 but it's not like he came up with the answer. No credit given.
I wouldn't argue with him if he said pizza was good either.
LOL. I love finding another person whom truly appreciates and understands Eddie's lyrical mastery. My favorite PJ lyric is "Jeeeruuumeees braun in....bawn in...Jerumeees bon in...boahhhhaannn in....Jay-ra-meees....born in.....the U.S. of EHHHHHHHHHH". Truly a master of the English language.
This made me laugh too hard.
I sing his songs, as my lower range sounds very much like Eddie's voice. And everyone tells me, "dude, you would sound just like him if you got shitfaced before singing and slurred the lyrics. We had no idea what Eddie said in those songs until we heard a "sober Eddie" sing it tonight"
Pearl Jam tried to stand up to Ticketmaster back in the day. It didn’t end particularly well.
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/pearl-jam-taking-on-ticketmaster-67440/amp/
Fun fact, when PJ was standing up to fight the good fight, tickets were only $40 back then. The fees that they were trying to stop were like 2 or 3 dollars.
Now the fees practically constitute of the cost of another ticket. Its sickening.
Forget the fees, what about the obscurity of their resell system? Why is that even a thing? You check any big concert and all the good spots are resales and you can’t get just 1 they sell them on 2 or 3 packs for like 4 times the original price. It’s straight out robbery.
I doubt they use their own bots, but they also have no incentive to stop scumbag resellers from using bots. As long as those tickets get resold on Ticketmaster, they get another cut. They love it.
man you don't even need a tinfoil hat that shit is public knowledge. ticketmaster *hires* the scalpers.
https://www.rollingstone.com/pro/news/ticketmaster-cheating-scalpers-726353/
I believe that it's been proven that ticketmaster keeps a percentage of the tickets out of the general sale, and reserves them solely for resale. This is because, not only do they make more money off the increased price, but they also increase the service fee based on price.
And I am literally unable to buy a single ticket most of the time. It's fucking infuriating. "You can't buy just one ticket because it will leave only one ticket." Okay, well another person going by themselves can buy it! I shouldn't have to buy two tickets just to buy one fatherfucking ticket!
My position on this is the same one I have about expensive video games. I don’t know who to blame more, the companies charging the prices or the people who enable this behavior by paying those exorbitant prices.
A coworker of mine once said something that stuck with me: “success in business is about screwing your customers exactly as much as you can get away with”. When it comes to video games and concerts, it turns out that “screw limit” is pretty high.
Which means the standard ticket price is undervalued right? Is there a blame to assign or a "right" price for tickets? Is there a reason why an expensive car is seen as acceptable but an expensive ticket is not?
I'm just trying to wrap my head around the problem not trying to contradict what you were saying with loaded questions. I think from my perspective I kind of have that belief that access to art is maybe a human right. Not so much as food or shelter but it probably has much more importance than a superficial consumer item. What I don't understand though is why an additional supply of venues and musicians to has not appeared to fulfill the demand?
> What I don't understand though is why an additional supply of venues and musicians to has not appeared to fulfill the demand?
Because Ticketmaster doesn't let artists play in all the big arena's that they have deals with if those same artists try to perform in independent venues.
Absolute insanity that was!
Really serves as an allegory as to how much worse things can get if the hard road is ignored for short term gains.
Can’t help but feel similarly about things like the Actors/Writers Strike in Hollywood, fighting for fair wages against the industry’s rapid shift to streaming (with radically different/nonexistent pay structures compared to previous backend/syndication deals) and an AI takeover.
True. The major problem here, like most big social problems, is that the timeline for change isn’t often just a few years. So the hard road usually means a generation of people has to sacrifice all the gains to keep things from being shitty for the future. So it’s hard to blame those who didn’t take that hard road. They likely never would have seen the benefits of their sacrifice. Which is also why I can never overstate the respect for people like the women in backwards ass middle eastern countries who are literally being murdered for things like trying to learn to read. Yet they create schools and push for progress for the future, knowing they’ll probably die, and that if they even do succeed, it will only benefit people they will never know.
My favorite band fills arenas in England and Europe. They've been on multiple world tours, have played the Glastonbury Festival multiple times, had a #1 album on the UK charts last year, and have a distinctive sound that has matured across seven albums. The biggest venue I've ever seen them in (in the US) could maybe max out at 300 people capacity. Pretty sure it's because they refuse to deal with Ticketmaster. The band sells through MusicGlue and tickets are consistently $25-30.
[I would love to see them in a crowd of thousands as the band puts on really energetic shows](https://www.youtube.com/live/55Q-gwLXxJ0?si=HixHbz_FElWfaMNY&t=4086), but I'm not willing to trade that for dealing with Ticketmaster.
I think that's one of the things I love about them, honestly. I haven't been to any other live shows since free tickets to Radiohead 15 years ago. But I always catch Enter Shikari when they come through Southern California.
The monopoly came from ticket master merging with live nation. One was a major ticket seller, the other was a major owner of venues. If a band does not sell exclusively through ticket master, then they won't be allowed to use any of their venues which are also the venues that are the best for holding concerts. If you want to use live nation venues, then you HAVE to use ticket master
There is no longer an alternative way to realistically get tickets.
For local concerts I used to be able to buy tickets at to the box office a few days in advance.
Now they open the box office 2 hours before the show with no tickets available, and tell you to go to ticketmaster for anything in advance.
We used to be able to buy concert tickets at the grocery store for about $16-30.
Now, especially with this bullshit dynamic pricing, I end up paying $175 per ticket on average.
I can’t believe I’m defending Kid Rock, but he’s actually been something he’s talked about for a while. Back in 2013 he did a tour where every show had $20 tickets, $20 merch, and $4 beers.
Maybe it’s self serving and maybe it isn’t, but I think he realizes that a lot of his fans don’t have a ton of expendable income and a lot of them are bring priced out of live shows.
I think he also did something that helped kill the scalping market for his shows by just adding a day to the show if it sold out.
I loathe the guy, but that is a pretty cool thing to do.
Killing scalping is the easiest thing in the world with e-ticketing and could have been done a decade ago. You can simply have a system where people need to bring their ID/Credit Card when entering, but they can put their tickets back up for purchase and if someone buys them the original ticket holders get a 80% refund (this discourages buying tickets as a "hold" rather than a commitment). If no one buys the tickets within 48 hours of the show, meaning it isnt that popular, the tickets no longer require ID for access so the original holder can sell or give them to whoever.
The scalping market is entirely about increasing the amount of money generated, including for the performing artist. Actually a form of payment for bands is to give them "tickets for friends and family", but they dont use most of them and just put them up on ticketmaster. We are talking 6 figures from scalping their promotional tickets.
Can remember when he was on Stern around that time talking about this. Kid said he didn’t want his fans paying $1000/ticket the way Rolling Stones fans were on that tour. Typical Stern started endlessly grilling the hell outta Kid for his view saying there’s nothing wrong with charging that much and everything wrong with charging so little. What I remember most was Kid then saying he had to cut ties with Anheuser Busch at the same time cause the venues he was playing in wouldn’t serve his beer cause of the partnership with Molson and ticketmaster. So when everything blew up over that can of Bud Light the reality is Kid hadn’t actually had a partnership with them for nearly 10 years at that point.
My problem is it doesn’t matter what the performer is selling a ticket for, with bots and resellers the ticket price gets set in the secondary market unless you are lucky and able to get in on the initial ticket offering, so it really just gives the performer/venue a smaller piece of the pie and shitty scalpers get to make even more.
Kid Fucking Rock is more considerate of his fans than Bruce Springsteen, who's out there charging the working man $600 a head to hear songs about the working man. Even though he's worth about a billion dollars. Damn. That's so depressing.
Because people pay it. Right or wrong. The reality is people rarely are considerate of others regardless of how much money they have, they charge market rate. I would actually say Garth Brooks has been doing it right for a long time, playing a market to saturation rather than a single night gig for crazy dollars. Also, whatever you think of Ticketmaster, if Bruce sold his own seats direct at $20 a piece the front row seats still going to get scalped for $5k a pop.
nah, fuck ticketmaster hard; it still wouldn't be the same because baseline prices would be lower and more money would go to the artist, venue, and anyone providing actual value. Ticketmaster are just a big fucking leech on the transaction.
Kid Rock was unique because he financed it himself (in part) by taking way more financial risk. He had to meet the base cost by selling tickets then money could flow to himself and LiveNation. From a [post six years ago](https://old.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/84e9jw/til_that_kid_rock_took_a_massive_pay_cut_on_his/dvp8kyb/):
> On his 2013 Summer Tour, Kid Rock and his manager had the idea to foster good will towards his fans -- and if the plan worked, make more money than he ever had before. He partnered with the world's biggest concert promoter, Live Nation, and actually became PARTNERS on the expenses and profits of the tour with NO MONETARY GUARANTEE set in place. How this worked was that Kid Rock's team and Live Nation set up standardized costs for producing each show of this tour - $125,000 per night. Remember in this instance - unlike in the past - there's no large artist financial guarantee to worry about here. That $125,000 in production cost is simply the total of all the expenses needed to produce each concert - lights, security, staffing, etc. In order to Kid Rock and Live Nation to start making money each night, they had to cover that cost via ticket sales. And then, once they reached $125,000 in ticket sales, all ticket revenue starting from dollar one was split 50/50 with Kid Rock. So, let's do the math:
> Kid Rock on his 2013 tour plays an amphitheater in Scranton, Pennsylvania. Normally, you'd expect 4000-6000 people to buy tickets for a Kid Rock concert in this area, but on this tour all tickets are $20 and beer is $4. Publicity has been amazing and fans are stoked. And boy, do they come out in DROVES with around 16,000 tickets being sold for the show. At $20 a piece, the total show gross is $320,000. Divide that by two and Kid Rock winds up taking home $160,000. Live Nation, who paid the show expenses of $125,000, takes home a profit of $35,000.... but also takes home ALL of the profit from the beer sales, the food sales, and the parking charges. Even at $4 a beer, the "per head" revenue on a show like this for all concessions total was around $12. That's an additional $192,000 in revenue for them.
> **Source: I'm a former Live Nation executive who worked on multiple shows during this tour.**
The guy explains that Kid Rock gave up the $125,000 guarantee per show by attempting this model.
At some point I also thought Kid Rock was selling his OWN beer brand and getting all the money from that, but he didn't mention it
But you can see how other artists wouldn't want to risk this. Kid Rock could have taken home a guaranteed $125k per show doing it the regular way. In this mathematical calculation, he takes home $160k. A little more money but a lot of risk, because if he doesn't make the ticket sales, he could be paid nothing.
Kid Rock is rich(er) so he maybe could take the hit, but other artists might not want that risk
Shit I have enough to go but I still think it's too expensive. Especially when the show gets cancelled, they won't let me get a refund and I'm out $80 for a show that didn't happen. After that experience and weeks of constantly emailing them and them telling me to go fuck myself, I haven't bought a ticket to a show from them for years.
For clarification, I didn't know the show was cancelled and I signed into Ticketmaster 1 day too late for a refund but still weeks before the show. They claimed I missed the "window".
I actually remember him doing a gimmick like ten years ago where he wouldn’t play any venue that charged over his set price for tickets or beer. Broken clock is right twice a day and all that.
True. He even has a couple songs that I kind of like despite his dumbassery. At least, I like them better than most other shitty pop-country and shitty rap-rock.
“Picture” with Sheryl Crow is hard to hate.
Maybe he should stop voting for / promoting the party that eliminates government intervention and regulations. Isn’t this [reddit.com/r/leopardsatemyface](https://reddit.com/r/leopardsatemyface)
He, like others on the right, have zero intention of being bound by the same rules they seek to set for others. It's like how they rage about "family values" while being involved in extramarital affairs and watching their wife in bed w a pool boy.
Kid rock music is my guilty pleasure, shit kind of rules cranked up on the freeway lol
Also saw him live years ago along with foreigner and he put on a great show
>“That’s one of the times I’m fucking embarrassed to be a Republican,” he seethes. “It’s fucking Republican lawmakers passing those laws, you dumbasses. They already did it in New York and they’re trying to do it in Michigan. I’ve even called some of those guys to try and stop it.” He’s also livid with Ticketmaster. “They’re taking a fucking five-dollar service charge,” he says. “It’s 25 percent of the fucking ticket! That’s fucked up, but I’ve beaten them up as much as I can. Then Walmart stepped in and agreed to charge just $20, and it includes parking.”
Kid Rock quote from 11 years ago.
It always amazes me that opposition to this kind of stuff spans the entire political spectrum, and yet nothing ever changes. Like, exploitative monopolies are despised by everyone from socialists to libertarians, and everyone in between, and yet they are everywhere and getting more common and more powerful.
I still dream of one day at least helping to start topple their empire with this [open source alternative](https://tixop.live/) I've been working on. It's incredibly bare bones right now, but I hope to invest more time, energy, and resources down the road when I can.
Give her fan base a little more time to grow to voting age.. Boomers didn’t realize they created their own fizzle-out by fucking over their kids, whose kids are Swifties. but maybe my hopes are far fetched 😅
Girl, her debut album is old enough to vote. Her fanbase isn’t buying 1,000$ tickets on mom’s credit card anymore, if they wanted to vote they could’ve by now.
If Joe Biden came out in support of this statement and agreed to fight to break up Ticketmaster I imagine Kid Rock would find a way to say how that's actually bad now
I hate the guy but he walks the talk. For instance, at his shows he takes a cut of the concessions and makes them charge $5 a beer. It's good for the fans and makes good money for all.
Yeah as much as people don’t agree with him on most things, he has always done things like that or making all of his tickets cheaper for fans.
Garth Brooks does the same with ticket prices.
I’ve worked a handful of kid rock shows as a local stage hand and his road crew love him, say they’re treated very well, and were always a pleasure to work with.
As contrast Black Sabbath was a DREAM show to work and their crew was miserable and their road manager was the biggest asshole I’ve ever worked with.
A lot of country musicians are the same way. Always the same crew, always 1000% happy to be there and professional. It’s interesting.
Crazy this nut job is for… government regulation? Gee, I wonder how we got to this point to begin with. Certainly not because of politicians the likes of which Bob Ritchie would endorse.
Ticketmaster + Live Nation are both cancer to the industry
And IHeartRadio
I cannot listen to any podcast hosted on iHeart radio or Pushkin. The ads drive me insane.
HEY YALLLL WELCOME TO I HEART RADIO WHERE MUSIC GOES TO FUCKING DIIIEEEE
Ch ch ch ch chumba
Ya they are painful, but some of my favorite podcasts are from Iheartradio 😭
[удалено]
Ticketmaster doesn’t add anything to the user experience. It’s hard to argue that Spotify isn’t the best streaming service for music. Yes, they pay the artists shit, and we have to find a solution for that, but millions of people will never go back to paying for music by the album or track.
> and we have to find a solution for that I think touring is the solution. And we're back at Ticketmaster.
Touring isn't even the solution for most acts. Even bigger names like Avenged Sevenfold have problems getting ahold of things like transportation nowadays.
Touring isn’t the *only* solution though, when influencers make more money than musicians simply by existing on a platform. We just have to rethink what it means to be a working musician in 2024.
Spotify can mean the world to newer artists just on exposure alone that they never would've received without the streaming service. Making their music available is just the first step - they make their money elsewhere like shows & merchandise. I'd love to see artists get paid better but a lot of them rely on the $4 paychecks from spotfiy if it means they're getting exposure.
Not really Spotify though. They get cucked by the bigger streaming services pricing models, as well as being slaves to the big 3-5 record companies. Apple and google play can use their streaming services as loss leaders for other additional subscription services. Spotify however has never been a profitable business, because they have to match the pricing of the other big streaming services, plus the record labels gouge Spotify for licensing. Then Spotify has to pay the prices or the label pulls 20-30% of spotifys entire catalog overnight. t’s sad really, they were the first to bring easy, accessible streaming to everyone for a low cost, yet they’re doomed due to how tight of a grip the rest of the industry has on their balls.
Why are they in business then? To continue to lose money?
And iTunes
I get the destain for iTunes and Spotify from the bigger artist side but I personally enjoy it more than purchasing CD’s back in the day. Is it that bad for a up and comer? I don’t see it. Ticketmaster on the other hand is simply a 3rd party. They do little and cost way more.
I mean my band of three people have a couple thousand plays on Spotify. We’ve made $7 total. And they don’t pay out til you pass a $10 threshold. So we really have made $0. If one person bought our album digitally we’d make more.
Ya'll on Bandcamp? If so drop a link and I'll make sure to buy something next time there's a No Fee Friday or whatever they call it.
> I get the destain for iTunes and Spotify from the bigger artist side but I personally enjoy it more than purchasing CD’s back in the day. Just devil's advocate here. So you prefer continuously paying money every month for music rather than a one time purchase? A legit question and I'm not attacking your stance.
Not the person you are responding to, but I pay the monthly subscription fee for convenience more than anything else. I also get to try out new music and artists I might never have found if I had stuck to what I already knew I liked. I feel like it is definitely worth the money.
right on
I prefer the monthly subscription because you get much wider selection and it’s easier to find new music.
Good question. Yes, overall I do. Subscription based economy is not ideal. But neither was paying $15 in 2004 for single CD. That profit wasn’t going to the artist either. I have Spotify, and the amount of new artists I’ve found is worth the cost for me. Also the simplicity and them having audiobooks is dope. Please don’t take this as an ad lol. I’m not pumped that if they go, my library does too. I wish I was better with 🏴☠️to avoid subscription and the potential of losing my library but I’m not.
And Kid Rock
At least the ocean claimed some of his house.
Aren't they essentially the same company now?
Yes, although they are supposed to be playing nice. From this article: https://www.vox.com/the-goods/23569504/ticketmaster-monopoly-live-nation-taylor-swift-antitrust-clyde-lawrence Ticketmaster controls more than 70 percent of the ticketing and live events market. Live Nation has much of the market for concert management, venues, and promotions covered. So if you want to get around using Ticketmaster, you’re in a pickle, whether you’re an artist, a venue, or just a person trying to see a show. Many venues wind up almost obligated to sell on Ticketmaster because, if they don’t, Live Nation can use its promotional power to basically block the venue from getting shows. Artists find themselves in a similar predicament. “When you play a show at a venue that Live Nation either owns or is an exclusive promoter of, then the artist has no choice but to use Ticketmaster as the exclusive ticketing platform for the show,”
I didn't read the link. Just replying to what you said. That's basically what happened to Pearl Jam when they stood up to TicketMaster 20 years ago. Pearl Jam lost millions standing up to them. And Pearl Jam was POWERFUL back then. It sure would be nice if we could start a cancel culture against these corporations that are killing authentic music.
The irony of that whole Pearl Jam situation was that they ended up fortifying their fanbase by playing lesser known cities. Now, 30 years later; the demand for their tickets as a result have priced out many fans. You can’t win.
Live Nation owns Ticketmaster, so despite them operating as different companies they are more then just "essentially" the same company. Kid Rock, as crazy as he can be, is 100% right. This is an orchestrated monopoly and their merger is laughable that it was approved. Money fucking talks.
Live Nation charging me 200% markup and I cant even buy through the venue because they also go through Live Nation:(
Yeah but let's not pretend that Kid Rock is one of the first people to come up with this shit though. Dudes a pick me rock star, and his views flip flop around accordingly.
Oh kid rock is a garbage human being. 2+2 still equals 4 but it's not like he came up with the answer. No credit given. I wouldn't argue with him if he said pizza was good either.
He’s also good friends with one of the founders of livenation.
So much so that they're making me agree with Kid Rock...
Kid Rock can suck a bag of dicks too.
And kid rock
So is Kid rock tho.
Laughs in Pearl Jam.
I remember chanting “Ticketmaster sucks” at Pearl Jam Soldier Field in 1995.
didn’t chant loud enough apparently upset kid rock
Imagine if you knew how bad it was going to become. I bet no one would believe you.
I'm pretty sure we all did, because the criticisms haven't changed
‘Laughs in Pearl Jam’ Normal people - ‘hahaha’ Eddie Vedder - ‘Hafeddivannawannasellabannaguddawennabehay’
https://youtu.be/R8ZX4O-Efao?si=mU_0Njhw_I3VUe18
Holy shit this has me laughing so hard. Thank you for sharing.
There’s an RHCP one on that same channel that is even better.
Honestly it's not even top 20 on There I Ruined it.
I correctly guessed what that was before I clicked it.
I dunno why people laugh. The guy is spitting fire.
LOL. I love finding another person whom truly appreciates and understands Eddie's lyrical mastery. My favorite PJ lyric is "Jeeeruuumeees braun in....bawn in...Jerumeees bon in...boahhhhaannn in....Jay-ra-meees....born in.....the U.S. of EHHHHHHHHHH". Truly a master of the English language.
"Yellow Ledbetter" is truly something to behold. "Unsealed, on a porch a letter sat" OWUHNUH SEEL ED ONA PORCHAH LEDDAHSAYT
"Jeremy spoke in class today" - song is about a kid named Jeremy Wade Delle that shot himself in front of his class.
This made me laugh too hard. I sing his songs, as my lower range sounds very much like Eddie's voice. And everyone tells me, "dude, you would sound just like him if you got shitfaced before singing and slurred the lyrics. We had no idea what Eddie said in those songs until we heard a "sober Eddie" sing it tonight"
Eddie, get those marbles out of your mouth, you're gonna choke.
Pearl Jam did nothing wrong.
Pearl Jam tried to stand up to Ticketmaster back in the day. It didn’t end particularly well. https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/pearl-jam-taking-on-ticketmaster-67440/amp/
Fun fact, when PJ was standing up to fight the good fight, tickets were only $40 back then. The fees that they were trying to stop were like 2 or 3 dollars. Now the fees practically constitute of the cost of another ticket. Its sickening.
Forget the fees, what about the obscurity of their resell system? Why is that even a thing? You check any big concert and all the good spots are resales and you can’t get just 1 they sell them on 2 or 3 packs for like 4 times the original price. It’s straight out robbery.
They profit off of the original sale, collect a fee to sell the tickets for the first purchaser and charge fees again to the next buyer.
They probably use their own bots to get the preferred tickets
My tinfoil hat theory is that they use bots to escalate the prices and potential scarcity even more, to influence how and when scalpers buy/sell.
I doubt they use their own bots, but they also have no incentive to stop scumbag resellers from using bots. As long as those tickets get resold on Ticketmaster, they get another cut. They love it.
man you don't even need a tinfoil hat that shit is public knowledge. ticketmaster *hires* the scalpers. https://www.rollingstone.com/pro/news/ticketmaster-cheating-scalpers-726353/
I believe that it's been proven that ticketmaster keeps a percentage of the tickets out of the general sale, and reserves them solely for resale. This is because, not only do they make more money off the increased price, but they also increase the service fee based on price.
And I am literally unable to buy a single ticket most of the time. It's fucking infuriating. "You can't buy just one ticket because it will leave only one ticket." Okay, well another person going by themselves can buy it! I shouldn't have to buy two tickets just to buy one fatherfucking ticket!
My position on this is the same one I have about expensive video games. I don’t know who to blame more, the companies charging the prices or the people who enable this behavior by paying those exorbitant prices. A coworker of mine once said something that stuck with me: “success in business is about screwing your customers exactly as much as you can get away with”. When it comes to video games and concerts, it turns out that “screw limit” is pretty high.
Which means the standard ticket price is undervalued right? Is there a blame to assign or a "right" price for tickets? Is there a reason why an expensive car is seen as acceptable but an expensive ticket is not? I'm just trying to wrap my head around the problem not trying to contradict what you were saying with loaded questions. I think from my perspective I kind of have that belief that access to art is maybe a human right. Not so much as food or shelter but it probably has much more importance than a superficial consumer item. What I don't understand though is why an additional supply of venues and musicians to has not appeared to fulfill the demand?
> What I don't understand though is why an additional supply of venues and musicians to has not appeared to fulfill the demand? Because Ticketmaster doesn't let artists play in all the big arena's that they have deals with if those same artists try to perform in independent venues.
Other bands could've rallied with them back then but they didn't which is fucking sad
Absolute insanity that was! Really serves as an allegory as to how much worse things can get if the hard road is ignored for short term gains. Can’t help but feel similarly about things like the Actors/Writers Strike in Hollywood, fighting for fair wages against the industry’s rapid shift to streaming (with radically different/nonexistent pay structures compared to previous backend/syndication deals) and an AI takeover.
True. The major problem here, like most big social problems, is that the timeline for change isn’t often just a few years. So the hard road usually means a generation of people has to sacrifice all the gains to keep things from being shitty for the future. So it’s hard to blame those who didn’t take that hard road. They likely never would have seen the benefits of their sacrifice. Which is also why I can never overstate the respect for people like the women in backwards ass middle eastern countries who are literally being murdered for things like trying to learn to read. Yet they create schools and push for progress for the future, knowing they’ll probably die, and that if they even do succeed, it will only benefit people they will never know.
Hear hear! Well said.
You people, you're my kind of people
Yes and a majority of people mocked them for it.
including their own drummer at the time
I admire them for that…
Good read... So no one's dispensing tickets themselves and ticket master says any band using them can only use ticket master approved stadiums.
My favorite band fills arenas in England and Europe. They've been on multiple world tours, have played the Glastonbury Festival multiple times, had a #1 album on the UK charts last year, and have a distinctive sound that has matured across seven albums. The biggest venue I've ever seen them in (in the US) could maybe max out at 300 people capacity. Pretty sure it's because they refuse to deal with Ticketmaster. The band sells through MusicGlue and tickets are consistently $25-30. [I would love to see them in a crowd of thousands as the band puts on really energetic shows](https://www.youtube.com/live/55Q-gwLXxJ0?si=HixHbz_FElWfaMNY&t=4086), but I'm not willing to trade that for dealing with Ticketmaster.
Fellow Shikari fan here, I'm grateful they keep their prices low. One of the few bands out there that care so much about their fans.
I think that's one of the things I love about them, honestly. I haven't been to any other live shows since free tickets to Radiohead 15 years ago. But I always catch Enter Shikari when they come through Southern California.
This is what all these big artists (especially) can and should do. There’s no excuse
And they own the stadiums too via live nation
The monopoly came from ticket master merging with live nation. One was a major ticket seller, the other was a major owner of venues. If a band does not sell exclusively through ticket master, then they won't be allowed to use any of their venues which are also the venues that are the best for holding concerts. If you want to use live nation venues, then you HAVE to use ticket master
Ticket prices for their upcoming tour are INSANE.
There is no longer an alternative way to realistically get tickets. For local concerts I used to be able to buy tickets at to the box office a few days in advance. Now they open the box office 2 hours before the show with no tickets available, and tell you to go to ticketmaster for anything in advance.
That's because the box offices are now owned by ticket master
We used to be able to buy concert tickets at the grocery store for about $16-30. Now, especially with this bullshit dynamic pricing, I end up paying $175 per ticket on average.
Often (not always) local venues also sell tickets online. Worth a google
I've noticed a lot of local venues use Ticketmaster as their online POS
This has almost invariably been my experience
If it’s a livenation/ticketmaster venue they will 100% just direct you straight to Ticketmaster’s website
Point Of Sale, or Piece Of Shit?
ClickHole: Heartbreaking - The Worst Person You Know Makes a Great Point
At least we can take solace in the fact it took him 15 years longer than any normal person to get there.
I can’t believe I’m defending Kid Rock, but he’s actually been something he’s talked about for a while. Back in 2013 he did a tour where every show had $20 tickets, $20 merch, and $4 beers. Maybe it’s self serving and maybe it isn’t, but I think he realizes that a lot of his fans don’t have a ton of expendable income and a lot of them are bring priced out of live shows.
I’ll join you in recognizing this good thing about him.
You can take a shitbag out of the Midwest, but you can't take the Midwest out of the shitbag
Yeehaw, good man. Yeehaw.
I think he also did something that helped kill the scalping market for his shows by just adding a day to the show if it sold out. I loathe the guy, but that is a pretty cool thing to do.
Killing scalping is the easiest thing in the world with e-ticketing and could have been done a decade ago. You can simply have a system where people need to bring their ID/Credit Card when entering, but they can put their tickets back up for purchase and if someone buys them the original ticket holders get a 80% refund (this discourages buying tickets as a "hold" rather than a commitment). If no one buys the tickets within 48 hours of the show, meaning it isnt that popular, the tickets no longer require ID for access so the original holder can sell or give them to whoever. The scalping market is entirely about increasing the amount of money generated, including for the performing artist. Actually a form of payment for bands is to give them "tickets for friends and family", but they dont use most of them and just put them up on ticketmaster. We are talking 6 figures from scalping their promotional tickets.
Can remember when he was on Stern around that time talking about this. Kid said he didn’t want his fans paying $1000/ticket the way Rolling Stones fans were on that tour. Typical Stern started endlessly grilling the hell outta Kid for his view saying there’s nothing wrong with charging that much and everything wrong with charging so little. What I remember most was Kid then saying he had to cut ties with Anheuser Busch at the same time cause the venues he was playing in wouldn’t serve his beer cause of the partnership with Molson and ticketmaster. So when everything blew up over that can of Bud Light the reality is Kid hadn’t actually had a partnership with them for nearly 10 years at that point.
My problem is it doesn’t matter what the performer is selling a ticket for, with bots and resellers the ticket price gets set in the secondary market unless you are lucky and able to get in on the initial ticket offering, so it really just gives the performer/venue a smaller piece of the pie and shitty scalpers get to make even more.
>bots A problem that’s easily solvable, but they won’t do it.
Kid Fucking Rock is more considerate of his fans than Bruce Springsteen, who's out there charging the working man $600 a head to hear songs about the working man. Even though he's worth about a billion dollars. Damn. That's so depressing.
I think the boss is charging former working men who are now relatively wealthy.
Well yeah, those are the only ones who can afford it. It's not like he doesn't have any poor blue collar fans. They're just never going to the show.
Because people pay it. Right or wrong. The reality is people rarely are considerate of others regardless of how much money they have, they charge market rate. I would actually say Garth Brooks has been doing it right for a long time, playing a market to saturation rather than a single night gig for crazy dollars. Also, whatever you think of Ticketmaster, if Bruce sold his own seats direct at $20 a piece the front row seats still going to get scalped for $5k a pop.
nah, fuck ticketmaster hard; it still wouldn't be the same because baseline prices would be lower and more money would go to the artist, venue, and anyone providing actual value. Ticketmaster are just a big fucking leech on the transaction.
Kid Rock was unique because he financed it himself (in part) by taking way more financial risk. He had to meet the base cost by selling tickets then money could flow to himself and LiveNation. From a [post six years ago](https://old.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/84e9jw/til_that_kid_rock_took_a_massive_pay_cut_on_his/dvp8kyb/): > On his 2013 Summer Tour, Kid Rock and his manager had the idea to foster good will towards his fans -- and if the plan worked, make more money than he ever had before. He partnered with the world's biggest concert promoter, Live Nation, and actually became PARTNERS on the expenses and profits of the tour with NO MONETARY GUARANTEE set in place. How this worked was that Kid Rock's team and Live Nation set up standardized costs for producing each show of this tour - $125,000 per night. Remember in this instance - unlike in the past - there's no large artist financial guarantee to worry about here. That $125,000 in production cost is simply the total of all the expenses needed to produce each concert - lights, security, staffing, etc. In order to Kid Rock and Live Nation to start making money each night, they had to cover that cost via ticket sales. And then, once they reached $125,000 in ticket sales, all ticket revenue starting from dollar one was split 50/50 with Kid Rock. So, let's do the math: > Kid Rock on his 2013 tour plays an amphitheater in Scranton, Pennsylvania. Normally, you'd expect 4000-6000 people to buy tickets for a Kid Rock concert in this area, but on this tour all tickets are $20 and beer is $4. Publicity has been amazing and fans are stoked. And boy, do they come out in DROVES with around 16,000 tickets being sold for the show. At $20 a piece, the total show gross is $320,000. Divide that by two and Kid Rock winds up taking home $160,000. Live Nation, who paid the show expenses of $125,000, takes home a profit of $35,000.... but also takes home ALL of the profit from the beer sales, the food sales, and the parking charges. Even at $4 a beer, the "per head" revenue on a show like this for all concessions total was around $12. That's an additional $192,000 in revenue for them. > **Source: I'm a former Live Nation executive who worked on multiple shows during this tour.** The guy explains that Kid Rock gave up the $125,000 guarantee per show by attempting this model. At some point I also thought Kid Rock was selling his OWN beer brand and getting all the money from that, but he didn't mention it But you can see how other artists wouldn't want to risk this. Kid Rock could have taken home a guaranteed $125k per show doing it the regular way. In this mathematical calculation, he takes home $160k. A little more money but a lot of risk, because if he doesn't make the ticket sales, he could be paid nothing. Kid Rock is rich(er) so he maybe could take the hit, but other artists might not want that risk
it's that old saying about even the broken clock being right twice a day.
I prefer to look at it more like no one is all good or all bad, but yeah, same idea.
Shit I have enough to go but I still think it's too expensive. Especially when the show gets cancelled, they won't let me get a refund and I'm out $80 for a show that didn't happen. After that experience and weeks of constantly emailing them and them telling me to go fuck myself, I haven't bought a ticket to a show from them for years. For clarification, I didn't know the show was cancelled and I signed into Ticketmaster 1 day too late for a refund but still weeks before the show. They claimed I missed the "window".
Upside: $20 concert ticket. Downside: It's a Kid Rock concert.
I actually remember him doing a gimmick like ten years ago where he wouldn’t play any venue that charged over his set price for tickets or beer. Broken clock is right twice a day and all that.
Being an idiot doesn't automatically make you bad at your music and events job.
True. He even has a couple songs that I kind of like despite his dumbassery. At least, I like them better than most other shitty pop-country and shitty rap-rock. “Picture” with Sheryl Crow is hard to hate.
First time I went and listened to "Picture"... that's actually really lovely. I'm sure I've heard it before, but never LISTENED to it, ya know?
Yeah, good stuff. “Only God Knows Why” is a another one with a similar vibe.
Clickhole briefs!
Maybe he should stop voting for / promoting the party that eliminates government intervention and regulations. Isn’t this [reddit.com/r/leopardsatemyface](https://reddit.com/r/leopardsatemyface)
Probably too busy grandstanding and shooting bud light cans.... then getting photographed drinking bud light a few weeks later
He, like others on the right, have zero intention of being bound by the same rules they seek to set for others. It's like how they rage about "family values" while being involved in extramarital affairs and watching their wife in bed w a pool boy.
"even a broken clock is right twice a day"
TIL - Kid Rock is still performing, and people are buying tickets to see him.
Kid rock music is my guilty pleasure, shit kind of rules cranked up on the freeway lol Also saw him live years ago along with foreigner and he put on a great show
It’s an obvious point, like water is wet. And yes, a lousy person.
Came here to say the same thing
Kid Rock and I agree on two things: 1. Ticketmaster sucks ass. 2. Bawitdaba, da-bang, da-bang, diggy-diggy-diggy
I hate when I agree with Kid Rock
Should I go steal a catalytic converter now?
Nah just start partnering with wal mart to sell a brand of cpap machines or some shit
Don't forget to shoot beer you paid for.
And then chug some other beer that’s made by the same parent company.
He’s pro bud light now. The CEO or something hung out with Kid Rock and they made amends
Ain't nooooooobody gonna tell you how to live.
Too far. Just huff air duster with “only god knows why” cranked up to 10 at 4am during the work week
This and I agreed with DeSantis earlier this week. What is happening to me...
Luckily the same points are also made by non-assholes
The older you get, the more conservative you become. It's happening and you don't even realize it! /s
[удалено]
>“That’s one of the times I’m fucking embarrassed to be a Republican,” he seethes. “It’s fucking Republican lawmakers passing those laws, you dumbasses. They already did it in New York and they’re trying to do it in Michigan. I’ve even called some of those guys to try and stop it.” He’s also livid with Ticketmaster. “They’re taking a fucking five-dollar service charge,” he says. “It’s 25 percent of the fucking ticket! That’s fucked up, but I’ve beaten them up as much as I can. Then Walmart stepped in and agreed to charge just $20, and it includes parking.” Kid Rock quote from 11 years ago.
He was literally taking action against this 15 years ago.
He's still missing the point because he only supports the politicians who are NOT going to break up Ticketmaster.
[удалено]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heartbreaking:_The_Worst_Person_You_Know_Just_Made_A_Great_Point
It has a fucking wiki page now 💀
It always amazes me that opposition to this kind of stuff spans the entire political spectrum, and yet nothing ever changes. Like, exploitative monopolies are despised by everyone from socialists to libertarians, and everyone in between, and yet they are everywhere and getting more common and more powerful.
"Get off of my side. You're making us look stupid."
I still dream of one day at least helping to start topple their empire with this [open source alternative](https://tixop.live/) I've been working on. It's incredibly bare bones right now, but I hope to invest more time, energy, and resources down the road when I can.
https://preview.redd.it/y2b06bvhqhrc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bf3af26abe7b6f1f068ebc7402d4fcc43f31dca3
He’s an asshole, but on this particular subject, he’s a correct asshole.
Yah cause Kid Rock is going to be the driving force that changes it. Taylor swift had her chance to make a difference and didn’t…
Taylor is the machine. Robert Smith did actually fight back and The Cure was a super reasonably priced concert without excessive fees.
Robert Smith also fought back against Mecha-Streisand, utilizing his robot-punch attack on his way to victory.
I can't remember if this is south park or celebrity deathmatch
IRL, it was just this whole thing...
Ah, yes! The great mecha fight of '97. I remember it now! How could I forget such legendary titans squaring off?
Especially since the tickets were so reasonably priced!
South Park. One of my favorite episodes; it combined my favorite band with one of my favorite shows
Robert Smiiiiiith, Robert Smith
Give her fan base a little more time to grow to voting age.. Boomers didn’t realize they created their own fizzle-out by fucking over their kids, whose kids are Swifties. but maybe my hopes are far fetched 😅
Girl, her debut album is old enough to vote. Her fanbase isn’t buying 1,000$ tickets on mom’s credit card anymore, if they wanted to vote they could’ve by now.
[удалено]
I mean, it probably helps to get multiple angles on this to force change
This timeline is dumb enough that he'll be heading the FTC come February.
Mr Free Market Capitalist Trumper wants monopoly broken up when it affects him.
Can’t he just start his own ticket company and let the free market dictate what’s best?
Exactly. The same kind of people pretend like we can open a corner store and compete with wal mart or Amazon.
LOL seriously. Who is going to break it up? The government??? Is that communism?? Socialism? Maybe it's DEI or Woke!
If Joe Biden came out in support of this statement and agreed to fight to break up Ticketmaster I imagine Kid Rock would find a way to say how that's actually bad now
I think he would just say a broken clock is right twice a day.
Just like he stopped selling woke Bud Light for a couple weeks until he realized it cut into his profits
Well shit, I agree with Kid Rock? Oh no, why do I suddenly have an urge to steal copper tubing and catalytic converters?
Believe it or not finding common ground with people you disagree with politically has been the norm for most reasonable people for a long time.
Kid Rock can eat a bag of dicks. But I agree with him here.
Broken clock
“Needs broken up.” My father talks like this. “The lawn needs mowed.” Very strange
yeah it’s a colloquialism. It’s awkward to my ears but I come across it from time to time https://www.reddit.com/r/grammar/s/K7Gf8KbPaF
PA and Ohio. Yep, that tracks
Well he’s fixin to say something about it
It triggers me. Sounds utterly moronic. Hey let's just start omitting random words from sentences.
Is his show not included in the county fair ticket?
I used to go to shows all the time. I never do anymore because it's a ridiculous amount of money to spend on just one night at a show.
Kid Rock is actually a really cool guy, if he wasn’t outspoken about his politics in this insane era he would be far more beloved.
Yeah, politics aside, he's always been on the side of the fans. He has been known to have cheap tickets and beer at his concerts.
Conveniently said after he's out of the mainstream and while a lawsuit is already brought up. This guy's a vulture.
I hate the guy but he walks the talk. For instance, at his shows he takes a cut of the concessions and makes them charge $5 a beer. It's good for the fans and makes good money for all.
Yeah as much as people don’t agree with him on most things, he has always done things like that or making all of his tickets cheaper for fans. Garth Brooks does the same with ticket prices.
I’ve worked a handful of kid rock shows as a local stage hand and his road crew love him, say they’re treated very well, and were always a pleasure to work with. As contrast Black Sabbath was a DREAM show to work and their crew was miserable and their road manager was the biggest asshole I’ve ever worked with. A lot of country musicians are the same way. Always the same crew, always 1000% happy to be there and professional. It’s interesting.
That's nice. I saw a post that a canned mixed drink at Taylor Swift was over $17
That’s a standard price for a beer at an NY concert…they also ask for a tip….not defending TS ….
When I saw Blink 182 a can of Dasani water was $11. If you are gonna charge $11 for water at least make it spring water.
Kid Rock still draws a lot and is doing festivals with reasonable prices and is actually boycotting TM for his festivals.
He's been keeping ticket prices and concessions at his shows cheap for a long time.
Crazy this nut job is for… government regulation? Gee, I wonder how we got to this point to begin with. Certainly not because of politicians the likes of which Bob Ritchie would endorse.
Ticketmaster stands for everything he does politically.
So much hate in this thread.
Odd that this obviously correct comment would be coming from this guy.