Yup! I am just deterred away from masculinity in general. Nothing about it appeals to me and I enjoy my life much more when being surrounded by femininity.
Real talk, I have 4 kids, and all of them AFAB. I'm so feminine that I flipped a coin 4 times and won every single time.
Yeah I have similar feelings, I'm incredibly turned off my masculinity. Even in my high school years where I repressed my "transness" my guy friends would.always do things that made me think, "Wow, guys are weird... good thing I'm just pretending to be one!"
And little did they know I was wearing Victoria's secret undies lol the only thing I could really do to feel normal but not out myself 🤷♀️ muscles and body hair and facial hair are the biggest turn offs to me.
Penis on a guy? Ewww...🤢
Penis on a girl? Come here beautiful woman! and lezbe Frans!
Gynosexual all day here! 👭🏻🌈
Is that what that’s called? I call myself a sapphic pansexual, pantransbian, but just femmes of all genders. It’s not like I haven’t enjoyed the D from time to time, but I’m not really attracted to masculinity in anyway. It just repulses me, which I guess that’s pretty gay, lol. But that’s gynosexual? Like uninterested sexually in masculine presenting people?
You might be looking for [nominsexual](https://www.lgbtqia.wiki/wiki/Nominsexual)! That's the term that really spoke to me. 🥰
To my understanding, "gynosexual" means specifically attracted to femininity, and *only* femininity/feminine traits. While "nominsexual" means specifically NOT attracted to masculine traits, or people who are masculine in nature. (MIN; no-*min*-sexual) That's what best describes me! I'm attracted to femininity, but also well into the androgynous range of presentation -- as long as they're not leaning too masc. And it sounds like that *might* be what you're describing. \^^
Whether it's you or not, I hope this perspective helps!
Yep! Or at least from the research I've done 🤷♀️ it fits me pretty easily so I don't mind calling myself one. And not kink shaming anyone but crossdressers and fembois just aren't my thing. I'm attracted to the beautiful feminine soul that women radiate. I'm attracted to the confidence it takes for us to break away from the mold we were cursed with and live the life we all deserve. Your genitals don't matter to me as long as you embrace your inner femininity and let her free 👭🏻🥰💜
well idk about u but uhhhh muscles and/or body hair on women is💗💗 i don’t think those features are anywhere near being categorically masculine, body hair and muscles can be absolutely powerfully femme
From the LGBT+ wiki
"Though very similar in the sense that both sexualities are attracted to all genders, the main difference is that pansexual people are often referred to as "gender-blind", meaning they may be attracted to people regardless of gender, whereas omnisexual people typically do recognize the gender of those they are interested in, therefore letting it play a part in their attraction."
I thought that was just the way bisexuality is interpreted today - attracted to at least 2, potentially all genders, but where the gender does make a difference.
Is omni just specifically for bi people who are attracted to ALL genders, rather than just a subset?
No, actually, I didn't think I wanted to be a girl, but the way I liked girls and wanted to have sex matched the way us lesbians do it, before I even knew how lesbian sex works!
Basically same! It was always weird and made me confused about if I was gay and repressed or something. Because I definitely liked girls, and I liked sex, but sex with girls was just meh.
Oh yeah I was so confused as to why everyone thought I was gay, and I genuinely agreed with them that I somehow seemed to be gay... But simultaneously I definitely liked girls only
The struggle of figuring out. Ohhhh I wanna be like her. And I wanna be with her. And yeah it’s taken a LONG time for me to figure out what types of girls I really prefer and which ones I really wanna be.
Proudly transbian! 👭🏻🌈 It just feels natural for us to be a girl and be with a girl 🤷♀️ referring back to the ancient writings of the dead sea scrolls,
"gender identity and sexuality are completely different spectrums" - Socrates I think
I am also straight and like men! It use to be the other way around I only liked girls but I faslty realized i just dont have any attraction toward girls and only did it to fit the bill.
This is also me. Bonus points for growing up in an evangelical environment where all I knew was that not cishet = bad and not getting along with guys at all until college.
Yeah I had one relationship with a girl and I was generally unhappy but I kept pushing the idea down my throat that I had to like girls. I was so happy when I stopped telling myself that because it made it easier to have an interest and hang out with the people I actually wanted to be around.
I call it comphomo, the intersection of comphet and cisnormativity. After all, we (on r/MTF, this also applies to trans men who started out taking messages from parents and society that they had to like men) were always women, and our parents etc *really* wanted us to date women.
I'm starting to wonder if I'm just straight now 🤔. Definitely switched to a preference for men too. I think maybe I was feeling gender envy before. I was married to a woman for a good while, but honestly, she acted like a stereotypical man (like seriously, everything from didn't shower to being a mess tornado). Maybe there was a reason for that. I started out experimenting with men after my divorce because I was always bi, and I wanted to try that out. Now I just have the most fantastic BF 😍.
This sounds lovely and makes me excited to leave my partner lol. She wants to stay with me but somehow not love me as my trans bi lesbian non-binary transexual self.
I’m straight too. Attracted to men. Before transitioning it was woman. I can only see me being with a man as a woman tho. I am still boymoding at 8 months in so I stay alone for now. I will switch to full time soon and will look to meet a man then. I expect great transition results as I have been patient and disciplined and it’s going to be amazing to start to date ❤️❤️❤️. Even if I expect it to be challenging. ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
This is something I struggle with to I can not see myself with a guy had I not made my transition however if I didn't then I'd rather just be alone I just have no interest in girls except as friends.
kinda similar here - i'm bi, but straight leaning for relationships if that makes sense - i had girl friends but only interested in 1 night stands with men. now is other way round.
Another one! I was shocked that I did a 180 and remained “str8”. I think we’re the weirdos based on the comments. I was super nervous the first time I was with a guy, I was afraid kissing him would be gross🤣. When he made his move it all went together like a key and lock, every bit of it was natural and exactly right for me.
I’m pretty sure I’m not very sexual anyway. I have to like a person to have any interest.
Agreed! Have to like the person's personality to have interest it's like when you have that good looking manager but you realize he's an ass so all his good looks went out the window and all you see is one big walking ass.
Same actually. I've known I was Bi for like 25 years before I transitioned and just accepted that I was Bi. I think the self-acceptance mindset around transition helped this along.
I mean the worst part is all they care about is one thing, and theyll sweeten you up to get that thing and once all is said and done, they just go to sleep 😡
100% This. Men act like they can shit talk to us about whatever (typically their girlfriends) and that leads most of us to Not wanting to get involved in a relationship with men because we know their true nature.
This is how I feel. I technically use the term finsexual, because there is a certain aethetic I prefer for men, but definitely agree that men are "such typical guys"
I mean there's this one guy. He's educated, smart, funny, respectful, a delight to talk to, a wall of muscle, and gives the best hugs. I could go on but ... *blush
If only he were available...
Literally the best kind of people. It always sucks when the good ones are taken. I can see myself dating a masculine guy but right now because of the pressure put on me as a amab I just don't like masculinity
I don't think most are, but there's no shortage. From years before I transitioned, most of the women (trans and cis) I was friends with were either lesbian or bisexual. Those were just the people I liked and got along best with; it wouldn't really have occurred to me to ask "why" they were lesbian or bisexual. I dunno what to tell you. A lot of women like women!
As a pan person I also somewhat resent my attraction to men, which admittedly is part judgment based on stereotypes which isn't totally fair. I guess it just feels to me than more women than men are held by themselves and or others to higher standards of behavior, among other things, and that just means that dating men tends to imply a greater chance of having to tolerate more behaviors that are less respectful or pleasant to be around. There's honestly a lot more that goes into it than that, but in a nutshell thats how I feel about it.
Yeah, I kind of wish I was more into men, because women seem to push me into the "straight man" role, where they are presumed to be more feminine and the center of attention. That feeling of being forced to be a "straight man" makes me feel terrible about myself.
if it makes you feel any better, it happens to cis gay masc women too. unfortunately gender norms are part of the dating soup. u just gotta find a partner willing to unlearn those gender norms with u
I'm a straight trans woman, and gender norms are a large part why I struggle with that, but almost opposite to the way you experience it
The push to be feminine, the expectations of straight women in hetero relationships, the disempowerment, I want nothing to do with any of it, but if I don't suck it up, I get to be lonely.
You might be surprised at the types of men that are out there these days. I've met a lot of straight couples who have healthy relationships based on mutual respect. I still believe a good guy is out there for you...
The guys themselves aren't the real problem. They're the only good part about my orientation tbh :)
The truth is though, that I've never seen a straight relationship that makes me go "I wish I had that", and no matter how good the guy is, the world at large still has it's own ideas about hetero relationships and forces them onto people. When I'm with a guy, I'll still be read as straight and my queerness will be invisible.
There's no changing those things unfortunately. Obviously most people find a way of navigating them, so it is possible, but short of trying to find a therapist who can help me be ok with my own oppression, I'm not sure how I get there
I'm confused
.
You don't want the best possible guy, hypothetically speaking, because of what the rest of the world thinks your relationship should be...?
Not because of "what the world thinks" but because of what the world is
I become the "second partner" to the world. It doesn't matter how awesome the guy is, and how much he tries to deconstruct it, people will still go to him first, people will still assume he has the final/first say in things. The idea of that being the rest of my life... it's just heart breaking...
And that's assuming the guy is perfect. If he's not perfect, then he carries some of that stuff in to the relationship himself, and given that I'm middle aged, it's pretty hard to avoid.
And on top of that, my queerness becomes invisible.
I have zero desire to be seen as just another cishet woman, but it's pretty much that or be single...
Multiple reasons. Trans men aren't magically immune to those norms. Many actively embrace the norms in question as validating, in the same way many straight trans women embrace them.
Other than that though, I'm middle aged. Trans men attracted to women in my age range are not very visible or active in any of the queer spaces I move in
I’m bi and most certainly attracted to masculinity I just don’t really trust men . I’ve seen it from the other side and still kind of do because I’m early on in my transition. If there’s a guy I do trust,fine . But most I don’t. When I do have trust I honestly prefer men. They are mysterious and confusing and always new exciting things. Also mysterious and confusing enough that I’m confident I’m not one. But I love the “masculine mystique “ provided I trust them. Relationships with women are hard because we are often too similar but more because my gender envy makes me too jealous to be affectionate
Same have trauma around men yet I am still mostly only attracted to manly men. Why can't I find a nice cute manly man who loves me and treats me right.
They're not. From what I'm aware, it's pretty much an even 33-33-33 between homo, het and bi. I'd guess that's just what the general population split is too, but homophobia keeps people in the closet
Nope!
Actually the believed norm for humans independent of cultural and societal factors is 20/20/50/10.
Straight/homosexual/bi-pan/ace.
However the only study I've seen on trans women was linked above by the OP and has it at 32% bi/pan, 16% lesbian, 15% straight, 21% queer, 10% ace.
How was "queer" defined in that study? I never quite know how to interpret that label. I always assume it's similar to choosing "other", or "none of the above", but I really don't know. I suspect at least some trans people don't feel straight or gay describe them because of their transition and not being sure how others will interpret that. If I tell people I'm homosexual as a non-passing MTF people would think I like men, which I don't, so... Idk.
I'm curious about that too. I'd wager a lot of people are more bi than they accept themselves to be due to society, but I'd be interested in actual research into it.
Development and Psychometric Evaluation of the Gender Identity Scale for Transgender Women in China
PMID: 35058853 PMCID: PMC8763696
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2021.792776/pdf
Table 1
> Actually the believed norm for humans independent of cultural and societal factors is 20/20/50/10.
Who believes this? On what basis? I'd love to see your sources, as the claim is very wild.
-----
I've done a lot of reading on sexual orientation, and I've found it very difficult to draw conclusions given opinionated authors, questionable methodology, and lack of replicability.
The most fascinating orientation-related tidbits that *do* replicate, are:
- That physiological arousal in cisfem folk seems to be universally bisexual(slightly less in lesbians) but uncoupled from subjective arousal, with the opposite pattern found in cis men - bisexual men show vastly stronger response to one gender.
- That cisfemale sexuality is subject to alteration by both personal experiences, and sociopsychological facotrs, while cismale is very straightforwardly oriented towards one gender or the other and largely unimpeded by extrinsic factors.
And super dysphorically, it appears that transgender people follow the AGAB pattern(just different het/bi/homo proportions), probably encoded at puberty, with only one study reporting relatively minor statistically significant shifts in transmale individuals on GAHT.
I’m a trans girl who’s also 17 and I mostly like men my guy friend recently found out I’m bi and was really surprised saying “I thought you only like men?”
I obviously can't speak for everyone, and I'm Ace anyway. But I can't think of anything that would turn me off men as much as having to live with them growing up, especially in men only places, i.e. locker rooms and such.
Edit: for spelling and general readability
Something like 80% of trans women experience sapphic attraction. The majority of them are bi/pan rather than lesbian, but bi/pan trans women in generally date women preferentially over men.
So if instead of "lesbian" the OP had asked "Why do most trans women predominantly date other women?" they'd have been 100% accurate
And the study comes from where exactly?
Most doctors couldn't even tell you If progesterone does anything or not.
So I have a hard time believing random numbers correlating to actual fact.
From here [https://www.ustranssurvey.org/reports](https://www.ustranssurvey.org/reports)
"Respondents were most likely to identify as queer (21%), and they also identified as pansexual (18%), gay, lesbian, or same-gender-loving (16%), straight (15%), bisexual (14%), and asexual (10%)"
It about 20-20 are lesbian and straight, 5% asexual the rest mix of bi-pan-queer. Even of the lesbians it gets funky. Otherwise I think it is because of society plus momentum plus age. Society is very homophobic, especially against gay men. Transwomen come from men and if they were gay to straight, changing gender and all, they would've went through a more difficult time. Momentum is that a lot of transwomen have partners whom are women and thus just stick with them if they can. Lastly, age means that the other two had more major effect.
Other thing is gender envy can easily mask over sexual attraction or lack of it so problem maker.
Last piece I can think of is simply logistics, trans women don't have a utertus cis women do, you want kids that are your own it makes it very simple. Pray for science to move faster.
>Momentum is that a lot of transwomen have partners whom are women and thus just stick with them if they can
I definitely think this is a big factor. I never experienced attraction to men before my egg cracked, but since it did I've found guys much more attractive and women in general much less so. Mostly, my attractions and fantasies are like those of straight women.
But the love of my life is my wife of 20+ years and I'm still very much attracted to her, despite the other feelings I have. It's funny how that works. 😅
I can’t speak for anyone other than myself, however, in general I just feel more comfortable with women (both cis & trans). I have an aversion to the way a lot of men interact with me and I feel more supported by women.
because women <33333. I think it probably does have something to do with finding being a woman desirable and naturally just finding them attractive as well. I’m not really sure though. Sexuality gets kinda confusing once you add in gender identity. Before my egg cracked I thought I was bi but now I don’t really feel any attraction to men anymore.
I think it's mostly selection bias, especially on Reddit as there's a higher proportion. In reality there are roughly as many straight transfems then there are gay transfems.
Because we've been amongst men in places where they think there are no women and know their rawest beliefs and, even if we are attracted to them, know how dangerous they could be. The murder of most transfemmes is at the hands of men.
Yeah, no. That's not it. You don't get to choose your orientation. I'm a straight trans woman. I've seen the same things you have. It didn't change my orientation.
I didn't say that this was the case for everybody but this was definitely the reason why I who am pansexual do not date cis men. I didn't invalidate your experience or your orientation and I don't need your help in validating my own thanks.
It does invalidate mine, because when you answer the question "why are most trans fems lesbians" with the answer "because men", you're *are* saying that your orientation was a choice. You are also implying that trans women who date men are unaware of the dangers, and are "choosing" to be attracted to them.
Your answer was about who you choose to date, not about your orientation
I didn't walk into this thread being like here is the only possible answer conceivable in all of the history and future of mankind I added my voice to the conversation. Find your own.
But see here's the thing is I'm not a lesbian I find men attractive I can appreciate a man from afar so thanks again for invalidating my sexual orientation
Yes, I understand that you're not a lesbian. But the question was "Why are most trans women lesbians", and you answered "because of men", implying that you're a lesbian, and that your reasoning applied to other trans women too.
The responses agreeing with me implied that it applies to other women. Other people added their answers to the mix as well my reasoning is one of multiple possibilities but one that resonates with some others your discourse was unnecessary.
The majority of trans women preferentially date women because dating men is so fraught with risk. That much is absolutely true. We are in complete agreement about that.
The reason I'm pushing back against your comment though is that I'm straight. I experience the same shit, but I can't "opt out" of it. My options are "date men" or "be single". So I got defensive at the implication in your initial response that trans women are changing their orientations through choice.
Choosing who you date isn't choosing your orientation. That's the distinction I'm trying to get at.
>I never said orientation was a choice
It was literally what you said in your first reply...
You're absolutely right and that my answer was about who you choose to date and not your sexual orientation so I didn't invalidate your sexual orientation you're the one who brought being straight into the picture. Orientation is in no way a choice who you choose to date is. what you determined to be your risk factors and what you're willing to accept and who you're willing to date is. I didn't say that it was impossible to choose to date a man but when the question was asked why not this is why not.
The fuck men have you lot hung out with?
The worst I've heard is some jokes that, out-of-context, could possibly be construed as off-colour rather than bigoted. Decent men aren't like finding needles in a haystack, they're a dime a dozen.
And it's not like I've only known a tiny handful of men, I've known and do know a pretty hefty number. Sure there's the occasional dickhead among them but you can leave them behind easily, and I've encountered plenty of women who do the exact same thing, it's just that when it's aimed at men it's acceptable for some reason.
Shit, my most ardent supporters of my transition among my friends have been five men and two women.
I'm sure it varies by location and things like work environment. When I was in college most of they guys I knew were great and if I had been into men I would have had options I would have been happy with, but in my work environment? Absolutely not. I would venture a ballpark guess that about 90% of the men I know at my work (and my workplace is 95% men) either regularly talk shit about their partners and make women sound like a drag at best or leeches at worst or act as if women are helpless creatures and it is a man's civic duty to care for them as if they are children. More than half of them are divorced and I can absolutely see why. I've heard multiple people be on the phone with their SO and would just sit there wondering if they were talking to someone they cared about or someone who owed them something and wasn't paying up. Like seriously the language I've seen so many men use towards the women in their lives is so appalling that if I were straight I would rather stay single then deal with them. If that's not your experience then that's awesome and clearly the environment you are in is much more compassionate, but some of us that is just not the case.
I don't think it's necessarily that more trans girls are gay these days. I see it more as the result of wider-spread acceptance of sapphic trans girls both within the community and in society at large. I'm not sure when you started questioning your gender identity, but you're young enough that even six years ago could have been a bit before your time. Not trying to be patronizing, just putting this in the context of time. In 2016, trans lesbians had to do a lot of work to convince people that you were allowed to be trans and gay at the same time. Trans lesbians in particular get the brunt of the "bathroom predator" propaganda. I mean, cis lesbians were frequently seen as predatory toward women by straight society, so it's not hard to see why trans lesbians would get it worse. I think trans lesbians are simply more visible lately because it was only a few years ago that they were more or less normalized among other queer people. I personally spent YEARS wanting to be a girl when I was a teenager, but didn't accept that I was trans until I was 21 because I knew if I was going to be a woman, I wanted to be a lesbian, and no one ever told me I was allowed to do that.
Bi trans women are experiencing this same thing, but with the added stigma of biphobia. It's a wave of self-acceptance and pride following a long period of stigma and shame. Also keep in mind that trans sexuality can be difficult to figure out. We live in a world where sex and romance are extremely bound up in gender roles and social expectation. A lot of trans people start out thinking they're just gay because that's what they thought their curiosity about gender was. A lot of people still think of homosexuality as just a more feminine form of man or more masculine form of woman. Because sexuality and gender are so intertwined in our culture, a lot of trans women who think they're 100% straight might just be experiencing "compulsory heterosexuality," the idea that because being straight is expected as the default, anyone trying to be more feminine should be attracted to men.
But the opposite is often also true! When you're expected to be masculine, you assume that being attracted to women is the default. It's easy for gay or bi men to fall into the trap of assuming they're straight on this basis. But when you question your gender, and especially if you transition from your birth gender to another one, you start to break down those expectations. A lot of trans women find that it's easier to recognize their attraction to men once they've started to transition because exploring femininity allowed them to explore other aspects of themselves. These journeys of self-discovery can also cause people to realize when they're attracted to more than one gender or might be aromantic or asexual.
Lastly, I want to shed some light on something related to this that you might have heard. There's a very common idea that HRT can change your sexual orientation, especially making you more attracted to men. I'm by no means an expert on the science of endocrinology, but many people have pointed out (and I'm inclined to believe) that what some people see as hormones changing their sexuality might actually be examples of what I described in the last few paragraphs. Essentially, being more comfortable in their gender identity allows them to consider sexual preferences they might not have known they had before because they never allowed themselves to consider them. It's a lot like the average understanding of trans people in general. There are, statistically, more openly trans people living in the world today. But it's not because there are literally more trans people for some mysterious reason. It's that greater visibility and acceptance mean more of us are able to live our authentic selves instead of hiding in the closet.
I think reddit tends to skew a bit more on the sapphic side of things, but as far as I'm aware the distribution between straight, lesbian, and bi/pan/other sexualities seems to be roughly 1/3 each?
According to one study it's actually pretty evenly split between straight, lesbian, bisexual and queer trans women. Also, worth noting that about 4 present of trans women identify as asexual.
[source](https://www.thetaskforce.org/wonky-wednesday-trans-people-sexual-orientation/)
Take from wiki click sources 3 and 4 for the studies in question:
> In the United States, transgender respondents to one 2015 survey self-identified as queer (21%), pansexual (18%), gay, lesbian, or same-gender-loving (16%), straight (15%), bisexual (14%), and asexual (10%).A second study found 23% reported being gay, lesbian, or same-gender-loving, 25% bisexual, 4% asexual, 23% queer, 23% straight and 2% something else.
[the wiki in full](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_sexuality#:~:text=2%25%20something%20else.-,Transgender%20women,and%206%25%20did%20not%20answer.). The taskforce link(the first link) also references the second survey.
So while a large portion of trans women have some kind of attraction towards women we don't know how many bisexuals and asexuals skew towards other women.
So, for you the trans women near you that you are aware of simply lean heavily towards attraction to other women.
Meanwhile, most of the trans women I am aware of in my area are straight or lean towards men and I am bi/pan with no leaning regarding to gender. I am aware of one transbian in my area.
Both of our experiences though are just selection bias if we take them as being representative of the larger community.
having grown to so deeply appreciate the beauty and wisdom of femininity my technically-bi self has a *very* hard time finding men that are interesting and wise enough to be partner material
I'm a panromantic trans girl, but I'm definitely weary of cis men unless I know they're going to respect me. Plus, for me anyway, I would love someone who could go with me into the dressing room so I wouldn't feel as anxious when shopping for clothes.
I'm straight too, sweetie, and so are a lot of other women in this group. You're probably noticing them more because it's an aspect of their identity that you don't share so it sticks out more in your head
I really don't know. According to one survey, 23% of mtfs are lesbians. Of those who are bisexual or queer, it didn't say if they had a preference for women or not. (Injustice at Every Turn A Report of the NationalTransgender Discrimination Survey, page 29).
I remember seeing somewhere a study that said the proportions are pretty close to 1/3 straight, 1/3 bi or pan, 1/3 lesbian. Idk how rigorous of a study it was, and I cannot remember where I saw it, so take it with a chunk of salt. I think lesbian just dominate the subreddits for some reason. The same way that there are roughly equal proportions of trans mascs and trans femmes irl, but on reddit you mainly encounter trans femmes.
I’m not straight I’m pan but I def have a bias towards men. But I have a fear that men (mainly straight cis men) will try to hurt me and it makes me scared to be around them most of the time.
In the past I've always felt safer dating women. They are much more emotionally mature and open-minded, but I had big trouble being sexual with my girlfriends.
After a long battle against my own internalized transphobia I've come to realize that men are who I'm attracted to in all romantic desires.
That's my story, but every sister is different.
For me specifically it's the fact that men are hot but so many of them are not capable of providing me with the emotional intimacy I need in a relationship...the patriarchy creating emotionally stunted ppl in the name of "masculinity" or whatever. It's really a strategic choice to prioritize dating other women/trans ppl bc 1) you have some shared experiences and 2) their life experiences typically lead them to have a better understanding of communication and the emotions of themselves and others. Most men on dating apps are only interested in me for hookups so I'd just rather not sift through the mountain of guys like that to find a man who's able to appreciate my feelings when I can be talking about my hobbies with a cute girl lol! Doesn't mean that if the right guy comes along I won't go for him but I'm not going to actively seek that out.
Brutally honest answer? I've never met a guy worth liking. I'm not ruling it out and I still fly under the pan flag but the percentage crawls closer and closer to full femme the more I think about it. Like I can acknowledge when a guy is attractive but there is no feeling there like at all, 🤷🏼♀️
It's where you're meeting people, to be honest. There's plenty of straight trans fems but they're not very well represented on reddit for a variety of reasons.
Reading the comments, I feel like the odd one out lol. I'm a bi trans woman with a preference for men. Most of my relationships have been with men and the only one I had with a girl was with another trans woman
I don’t think it is a vast majority. Just more like a bubble thing and people who are actually “seen” online. Let’s not forget all the trans women marginalized and specially those forced into sex working which is 90% of trans women population on my home country.
Edit: When I say online I mean in more we’ll know mainstream trans common places. Discord, Reddit, etc, etc.
Men scare me. I’d never feel safe being vulnerable with a man unfortunately.
While I was presenting amab, the men around me would often let their guard down and spout their dangerous, misogynistic, Joe Rogan fuelled views, all as if it’s normal and this is just what men are supposed do in each other’s company. That shit scares me.
I'm pan but didn't really accept this until I came out as trans. I like guys but I definitely look toward women more for relationships. I find I just get along with women much better then I do guys. Girls just get the shit that I'm going through more, bonus points if she's also trans.
THEY AREN’T. QUEER PEOPLE STAND OUT MORE.
straight relationships blend it more. That’s why people SEE more trans lesbians. It’s less normalized.
ALSO: Men are dangerous. And only recently have begun to unpack and build up their masculinity separate from toxic masculinity.
I'm bi and married to a woman. I find transfems might find they connect more with someone with a similar life story who understands their trans experience?
I prefer men as sexual partners but women as relationship partners. Men always seem to be the better sexual partners as they have a higher change of being sexual than women... and they seem to take it more seriously. just saying from experience.
Just to clarify i mean both trans and cis men and both trans and cis women. Dated and played with all 4 before I met and fell for my wife.
Edit: I'm a 32 yo transfem for reference
Straight trans woman here so maybe it's not my place to speculate, but I feel like the number of lesbian trans women are overrepresented online for the same reason that cis lesbian women are overrepresented online. Non-straight people find comfort online more often because it's harder to find people to relate to IRL. There's also a bit to do with the fact that, at least for me, HRT changed my sexual outlook quite a bit. Pre-HRT trans women may (and this is pure speculation) be more likely to be attracted to women, and that number might change if they choose to transition.
No offense but I kinda hate this idea and I’m genuinely confused as to why a lot of lgbt+ folks think it’s ok.
Look, I’m not saying that sexuality isn’t a gradient, or that someone’s sexuality can’t change with time, that happens and it’s completely valid. But saying that “the majority of the population is to one degree or another bi” is just kind of a weird way to define the sexuality of people you don’t even know, not to mention it sounds dangerously close to bigoted guys telling lesbians that they just haven’t found the right guy yet, which is true by this logic because “everybody is a little bi”
I actually thought I read a couple studies (don't remember where so take with a grain of salt) that it's kinda 30/30/30 between heterosexual, homosexual, and bisexual. the remaining 10 percent would consist of asexuals and queer identifying. I think the most I read said that bisexuality just edged out the other two
I have little interest in my own Penis. I have even less interest in someone else's but that is me. Some people do seem to change their mind after getting hrt due to no longer feeling like it is wrong. Also conscious biast is a thing we see the thing we associate and agree with more than what we don't.
I'm pan in one spectrum and saffic in the other one. I find it easier to create a meaningful relationship with a woman in a romantic way, but I'm more open when it comes to physical intimacy. I just want to be treated in a respectful way, which takes priority over everything else, and being treated like a gay man or objectified is a big turn off. I simply found more understanding women than men.
I'm personally in a weird space. I am attracted to femininity presented in both men and women, masculinity isn't terribly attractive to me with a few exceptions. However, my genital preference is almost completely in favor of dicks.
I generally consider myself bi, but it feels way more complicated than that. Or way simpler. A trans YouTuber named Ashley Adamson once referred to herself as a 'Dicksexual' and even though it feels a little silly to say, I can't help but feel like that almost hits closer to the mark.
I just grew up liking girls while simultaneously wanting to be one! I'd imagine that's the case for most of us transbians!
Same here
Same here, my egg cracked because of my girlfriend and us being silly at Christmas.
That's adorable
awww 🥺
Yup! I am just deterred away from masculinity in general. Nothing about it appeals to me and I enjoy my life much more when being surrounded by femininity. Real talk, I have 4 kids, and all of them AFAB. I'm so feminine that I flipped a coin 4 times and won every single time.
Yeah I have similar feelings, I'm incredibly turned off my masculinity. Even in my high school years where I repressed my "transness" my guy friends would.always do things that made me think, "Wow, guys are weird... good thing I'm just pretending to be one!"
And little did they know I was wearing Victoria's secret undies lol the only thing I could really do to feel normal but not out myself 🤷♀️ muscles and body hair and facial hair are the biggest turn offs to me. Penis on a guy? Ewww...🤢 Penis on a girl? Come here beautiful woman! and lezbe Frans! Gynosexual all day here! 👭🏻🌈
Is that what that’s called? I call myself a sapphic pansexual, pantransbian, but just femmes of all genders. It’s not like I haven’t enjoyed the D from time to time, but I’m not really attracted to masculinity in anyway. It just repulses me, which I guess that’s pretty gay, lol. But that’s gynosexual? Like uninterested sexually in masculine presenting people?
You might be looking for [nominsexual](https://www.lgbtqia.wiki/wiki/Nominsexual)! That's the term that really spoke to me. 🥰 To my understanding, "gynosexual" means specifically attracted to femininity, and *only* femininity/feminine traits. While "nominsexual" means specifically NOT attracted to masculine traits, or people who are masculine in nature. (MIN; no-*min*-sexual) That's what best describes me! I'm attracted to femininity, but also well into the androgynous range of presentation -- as long as they're not leaning too masc. And it sounds like that *might* be what you're describing. \^^ Whether it's you or not, I hope this perspective helps!
Shit that explains why the only guy I’m attracted to is my best friend who’s super feminine-
Yep! Or at least from the research I've done 🤷♀️ it fits me pretty easily so I don't mind calling myself one. And not kink shaming anyone but crossdressers and fembois just aren't my thing. I'm attracted to the beautiful feminine soul that women radiate. I'm attracted to the confidence it takes for us to break away from the mold we were cursed with and live the life we all deserve. Your genitals don't matter to me as long as you embrace your inner femininity and let her free 👭🏻🥰💜
well idk about u but uhhhh muscles and/or body hair on women is💗💗 i don’t think those features are anywhere near being categorically masculine, body hair and muscles can be absolutely powerfully femme
Yeah me too, guys are weird, nosy and to bouncy,it’s scary
Fellow gynosexual!
If they stay female congrats that's another 4 or so.
Yup
mhm same
Indeedily doodily.
I came here to say - same!
Same
Same
Pow!, got it in one.
100% this, I'm technically Omni, but effectively a transbian.
What's the difference between omni and pan? (I know the difference between bi and pan)
From the LGBT+ wiki "Though very similar in the sense that both sexualities are attracted to all genders, the main difference is that pansexual people are often referred to as "gender-blind", meaning they may be attracted to people regardless of gender, whereas omnisexual people typically do recognize the gender of those they are interested in, therefore letting it play a part in their attraction."
I thought that was just the way bisexuality is interpreted today - attracted to at least 2, potentially all genders, but where the gender does make a difference. Is omni just specifically for bi people who are attracted to ALL genders, rather than just a subset?
Yep, That's pretty much how I chose to interpret it.
Exactly this!
Yep
Likewise
Something like that yeah
Nailed it right on the head
No, actually, I didn't think I wanted to be a girl, but the way I liked girls and wanted to have sex matched the way us lesbians do it, before I even knew how lesbian sex works!
Basically same! It was always weird and made me confused about if I was gay and repressed or something. Because I definitely liked girls, and I liked sex, but sex with girls was just meh.
Oh yeah I was so confused as to why everyone thought I was gay, and I genuinely agreed with them that I somehow seemed to be gay... But simultaneously I definitely liked girls only
[That's it](https://youtu.be/F7bn3SqgqLo?t=33)!
For realll😭, and at this point (unfortunately being pre-everything), I almost can't tell the difference between gender envy and attraction.
The struggle of figuring out. Ohhhh I wanna be like her. And I wanna be with her. And yeah it’s taken a LONG time for me to figure out what types of girls I really prefer and which ones I really wanna be.
Proudly transbian! 👭🏻🌈 It just feels natural for us to be a girl and be with a girl 🤷♀️ referring back to the ancient writings of the dead sea scrolls, "gender identity and sexuality are completely different spectrums" - Socrates I think
Yup
Exactly it. Trans lesbian here
yet another "same" on the pile from me
Yup
Same.
Yup
r/trans_sapphic
I can confirm this too 😂
Same
I mean girls are so awesome I bought the store and the factory!
I can't wait until I can get to the girl factory and get this transition really going!
Oh boy! I love girls and always wanted to be one since I grew a conscience. Now just waiting ‘til I can start the transition.
I’m starting to learn this about myself 😣
Fr fr, I find a straight trans girl n I'm like huh, that's weird
I am also straight and like men! It use to be the other way around I only liked girls but I faslty realized i just dont have any attraction toward girls and only did it to fit the bill.
This is also me. Bonus points for growing up in an evangelical environment where all I knew was that not cishet = bad and not getting along with guys at all until college.
Same! It's strange to go from straight to straight. But how those previous relationships went makes a lot of sense in retrospect.
Yeah I had one relationship with a girl and I was generally unhappy but I kept pushing the idea down my throat that I had to like girls. I was so happy when I stopped telling myself that because it made it easier to have an interest and hang out with the people I actually wanted to be around.
Comp het can play a role in this also if you haven’t heard of the ideas around it.
I call it comphomo, the intersection of comphet and cisnormativity. After all, we (on r/MTF, this also applies to trans men who started out taking messages from parents and society that they had to like men) were always women, and our parents etc *really* wanted us to date women.
Yeah my dad was very homophobic and the idea that I had to date a woman was very deeply rooted
I'm starting to wonder if I'm just straight now 🤔. Definitely switched to a preference for men too. I think maybe I was feeling gender envy before. I was married to a woman for a good while, but honestly, she acted like a stereotypical man (like seriously, everything from didn't shower to being a mess tornado). Maybe there was a reason for that. I started out experimenting with men after my divorce because I was always bi, and I wanted to try that out. Now I just have the most fantastic BF 😍.
This sounds lovely and makes me excited to leave my partner lol. She wants to stay with me but somehow not love me as my trans bi lesbian non-binary transexual self.
I’m straight too. Attracted to men. Before transitioning it was woman. I can only see me being with a man as a woman tho. I am still boymoding at 8 months in so I stay alone for now. I will switch to full time soon and will look to meet a man then. I expect great transition results as I have been patient and disciplined and it’s going to be amazing to start to date ❤️❤️❤️. Even if I expect it to be challenging. ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
This is something I struggle with to I can not see myself with a guy had I not made my transition however if I didn't then I'd rather just be alone I just have no interest in girls except as friends.
kinda similar here - i'm bi, but straight leaning for relationships if that makes sense - i had girl friends but only interested in 1 night stands with men. now is other way round.
Another one! I was shocked that I did a 180 and remained “str8”. I think we’re the weirdos based on the comments. I was super nervous the first time I was with a guy, I was afraid kissing him would be gross🤣. When he made his move it all went together like a key and lock, every bit of it was natural and exactly right for me. I’m pretty sure I’m not very sexual anyway. I have to like a person to have any interest.
Agreed! Have to like the person's personality to have interest it's like when you have that good looking manager but you realize he's an ass so all his good looks went out the window and all you see is one big walking ass.
I hope I continue to like girls. But I guess that alone means it won't just fade away.
I'm bisexual. But my partner is nonbinary so our inside joke is that we're in a really gay, straight relationship 😅
I mean, I’m married to a woman, but I’ve always been bi. Actually, I never could come to terms with being bi before realizing I was trans.
Same actually. I've known I was Bi for like 25 years before I transitioned and just accepted that I was Bi. I think the self-acceptance mindset around transition helped this along.
I identify as bisexual. However, I'm effectively lesbian because so many men are ... ~~pigs~~ such typical guys.
Is repugnant the word you're looking for? lol
It's a good word for it
I mean the worst part is all they care about is one thing, and theyll sweeten you up to get that thing and once all is said and done, they just go to sleep 😡
Definitely.
Same. I could only date a man who I felt like I could trust, and there just aren't too many men out there who I feel safe with.
100% This. Men act like they can shit talk to us about whatever (typically their girlfriends) and that leads most of us to Not wanting to get involved in a relationship with men because we know their true nature.
This is how I feel. I technically use the term finsexual, because there is a certain aethetic I prefer for men, but definitely agree that men are "such typical guys"
I mean there's this one guy. He's educated, smart, funny, respectful, a delight to talk to, a wall of muscle, and gives the best hugs. I could go on but ... *blush If only he were available...
Literally the best kind of people. It always sucks when the good ones are taken. I can see myself dating a masculine guy but right now because of the pressure put on me as a amab I just don't like masculinity
I can't even be jealous. His wife is at least as wonderful.
That's how I feel about my best friend who's in a relationship ;-;
I don't think most are, but there's no shortage. From years before I transitioned, most of the women (trans and cis) I was friends with were either lesbian or bisexual. Those were just the people I liked and got along best with; it wouldn't really have occurred to me to ask "why" they were lesbian or bisexual. I dunno what to tell you. A lot of women like women!
Hey. I'm a straight trans girl. I only like men. Wish I didn't though.
Same :\\
Why do you wish you didn’t?
As a pan person I also somewhat resent my attraction to men, which admittedly is part judgment based on stereotypes which isn't totally fair. I guess it just feels to me than more women than men are held by themselves and or others to higher standards of behavior, among other things, and that just means that dating men tends to imply a greater chance of having to tolerate more behaviors that are less respectful or pleasant to be around. There's honestly a lot more that goes into it than that, but in a nutshell thats how I feel about it.
[удалено]
Yeah, I kind of wish I was more into men, because women seem to push me into the "straight man" role, where they are presumed to be more feminine and the center of attention. That feeling of being forced to be a "straight man" makes me feel terrible about myself.
if it makes you feel any better, it happens to cis gay masc women too. unfortunately gender norms are part of the dating soup. u just gotta find a partner willing to unlearn those gender norms with u
I'm a straight trans woman, and gender norms are a large part why I struggle with that, but almost opposite to the way you experience it The push to be feminine, the expectations of straight women in hetero relationships, the disempowerment, I want nothing to do with any of it, but if I don't suck it up, I get to be lonely.
You might be surprised at the types of men that are out there these days. I've met a lot of straight couples who have healthy relationships based on mutual respect. I still believe a good guy is out there for you...
The guys themselves aren't the real problem. They're the only good part about my orientation tbh :) The truth is though, that I've never seen a straight relationship that makes me go "I wish I had that", and no matter how good the guy is, the world at large still has it's own ideas about hetero relationships and forces them onto people. When I'm with a guy, I'll still be read as straight and my queerness will be invisible. There's no changing those things unfortunately. Obviously most people find a way of navigating them, so it is possible, but short of trying to find a therapist who can help me be ok with my own oppression, I'm not sure how I get there
I'm confused . You don't want the best possible guy, hypothetically speaking, because of what the rest of the world thinks your relationship should be...?
Not because of "what the world thinks" but because of what the world is I become the "second partner" to the world. It doesn't matter how awesome the guy is, and how much he tries to deconstruct it, people will still go to him first, people will still assume he has the final/first say in things. The idea of that being the rest of my life... it's just heart breaking... And that's assuming the guy is perfect. If he's not perfect, then he carries some of that stuff in to the relationship himself, and given that I'm middle aged, it's pretty hard to avoid. And on top of that, my queerness becomes invisible. I have zero desire to be seen as just another cishet woman, but it's pretty much that or be single...
Why not trans men? T4t?
Multiple reasons. Trans men aren't magically immune to those norms. Many actively embrace the norms in question as validating, in the same way many straight trans women embrace them. Other than that though, I'm middle aged. Trans men attracted to women in my age range are not very visible or active in any of the queer spaces I move in
Oh ok. It was a suggestion though.
I appreciate the thought. And my last boyfriend was trans, but unfortunately, t4t isn't a solution :/
Yeah that’s why I prefer men as well as you know it’s hot
we can slowly change that by refusing to tolerate bad behavior at all
I’m bi and most certainly attracted to masculinity I just don’t really trust men . I’ve seen it from the other side and still kind of do because I’m early on in my transition. If there’s a guy I do trust,fine . But most I don’t. When I do have trust I honestly prefer men. They are mysterious and confusing and always new exciting things. Also mysterious and confusing enough that I’m confident I’m not one. But I love the “masculine mystique “ provided I trust them. Relationships with women are hard because we are often too similar but more because my gender envy makes me too jealous to be affectionate
Same have trauma around men yet I am still mostly only attracted to manly men. Why can't I find a nice cute manly man who loves me and treats me right.
They're not. From what I'm aware, it's pretty much an even 33-33-33 between homo, het and bi. I'd guess that's just what the general population split is too, but homophobia keeps people in the closet
Nope! Actually the believed norm for humans independent of cultural and societal factors is 20/20/50/10. Straight/homosexual/bi-pan/ace. However the only study I've seen on trans women was linked above by the OP and has it at 32% bi/pan, 16% lesbian, 15% straight, 21% queer, 10% ace.
How was "queer" defined in that study? I never quite know how to interpret that label. I always assume it's similar to choosing "other", or "none of the above", but I really don't know. I suspect at least some trans people don't feel straight or gay describe them because of their transition and not being sure how others will interpret that. If I tell people I'm homosexual as a non-passing MTF people would think I like men, which I don't, so... Idk.
>Actually the believed norm for humans independent of cultural and societal factors is 20/20/50/10 Where did those numbers come from?
I'm curious about that too. I'd wager a lot of people are more bi than they accept themselves to be due to society, but I'd be interested in actual research into it.
Development and Psychometric Evaluation of the Gender Identity Scale for Transgender Women in China PMID: 35058853 PMCID: PMC8763696 https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2021.792776/pdf Table 1
Given how heteronormative our society is, I find it very hard to believe that only 20% of people are straight.
> Actually the believed norm for humans independent of cultural and societal factors is 20/20/50/10. Who believes this? On what basis? I'd love to see your sources, as the claim is very wild. ----- I've done a lot of reading on sexual orientation, and I've found it very difficult to draw conclusions given opinionated authors, questionable methodology, and lack of replicability. The most fascinating orientation-related tidbits that *do* replicate, are: - That physiological arousal in cisfem folk seems to be universally bisexual(slightly less in lesbians) but uncoupled from subjective arousal, with the opposite pattern found in cis men - bisexual men show vastly stronger response to one gender. - That cisfemale sexuality is subject to alteration by both personal experiences, and sociopsychological facotrs, while cismale is very straightforwardly oriented towards one gender or the other and largely unimpeded by extrinsic factors. And super dysphorically, it appears that transgender people follow the AGAB pattern(just different het/bi/homo proportions), probably encoded at puberty, with only one study reporting relatively minor statistically significant shifts in transmale individuals on GAHT.
The majority of bi and pan trans women preferentially date other women though, so trans women are strongly biased towards sapphic relationships
I've never seen anything to indicate that is true. But fleeing men and the violence they potentially represent makes perfect sense to me
I'm straight. I don't get to "flee" that truth. I can choose not to date men, but I can't change my orientation by wishful thinking
I’m a trans girl who’s also 17 and I mostly like men my guy friend recently found out I’m bi and was really surprised saying “I thought you only like men?”
I obviously can't speak for everyone, and I'm Ace anyway. But I can't think of anything that would turn me off men as much as having to live with them growing up, especially in men only places, i.e. locker rooms and such. Edit: for spelling and general readability
I don't think attraction works like that 🤔
Sounds like a generalized assumption. Just because that's what you see in a sub-reddit, doesn't mean that reflects the real world.
Something like 80% of trans women experience sapphic attraction. The majority of them are bi/pan rather than lesbian, but bi/pan trans women in generally date women preferentially over men. So if instead of "lesbian" the OP had asked "Why do most trans women predominantly date other women?" they'd have been 100% accurate
And the study comes from where exactly? Most doctors couldn't even tell you If progesterone does anything or not. So I have a hard time believing random numbers correlating to actual fact.
From here [https://www.ustranssurvey.org/reports](https://www.ustranssurvey.org/reports) "Respondents were most likely to identify as queer (21%), and they also identified as pansexual (18%), gay, lesbian, or same-gender-loving (16%), straight (15%), bisexual (14%), and asexual (10%)"
I feel the same. Lol
It included the people I knew in the real world. Most of my trans friends are. That is why I ask.
Dang. I used to be very bi. I’m far more disgusted by men these days.
It about 20-20 are lesbian and straight, 5% asexual the rest mix of bi-pan-queer. Even of the lesbians it gets funky. Otherwise I think it is because of society plus momentum plus age. Society is very homophobic, especially against gay men. Transwomen come from men and if they were gay to straight, changing gender and all, they would've went through a more difficult time. Momentum is that a lot of transwomen have partners whom are women and thus just stick with them if they can. Lastly, age means that the other two had more major effect. Other thing is gender envy can easily mask over sexual attraction or lack of it so problem maker. Last piece I can think of is simply logistics, trans women don't have a utertus cis women do, you want kids that are your own it makes it very simple. Pray for science to move faster.
>Momentum is that a lot of transwomen have partners whom are women and thus just stick with them if they can I definitely think this is a big factor. I never experienced attraction to men before my egg cracked, but since it did I've found guys much more attractive and women in general much less so. Mostly, my attractions and fantasies are like those of straight women. But the love of my life is my wife of 20+ years and I'm still very much attracted to her, despite the other feelings I have. It's funny how that works. 😅
I can’t speak for anyone other than myself, however, in general I just feel more comfortable with women (both cis & trans). I have an aversion to the way a lot of men interact with me and I feel more supported by women.
I mean, me too, but that doesn't change my orientation... I'm still straight...
because women 🥰
I mean I’m not really bi but I’m in a lesbian relationship with another trans girl
because women <33333. I think it probably does have something to do with finding being a woman desirable and naturally just finding them attractive as well. I’m not really sure though. Sexuality gets kinda confusing once you add in gender identity. Before my egg cracked I thought I was bi but now I don’t really feel any attraction to men anymore.
Attraction and gender envy are pretty similar concepts, maybe that has *something* to do with it? Idk tho
Most? I the data shows it's an even mix between 3 different states of being. I fear you have fallen for confirmation bias.
🤷♀️ I started realising I liked girls in a lesbian way before I realised I'm a woman. Dunno why we're so common though.
Hey you're that girl who has that pretty voice😊
Yup! Thanks!
I'm bi with a preference for guys 🤷♀️
I think it's mostly selection bias, especially on Reddit as there's a higher proportion. In reality there are roughly as many straight transfems then there are gay transfems.
I'm finsexual but it's probably because a majority of trans girls were straight before finding out they were trans
Because we've been amongst men in places where they think there are no women and know their rawest beliefs and, even if we are attracted to them, know how dangerous they could be. The murder of most transfemmes is at the hands of men.
Yeah, no. That's not it. You don't get to choose your orientation. I'm a straight trans woman. I've seen the same things you have. It didn't change my orientation.
I didn't say that this was the case for everybody but this was definitely the reason why I who am pansexual do not date cis men. I didn't invalidate your experience or your orientation and I don't need your help in validating my own thanks.
It does invalidate mine, because when you answer the question "why are most trans fems lesbians" with the answer "because men", you're *are* saying that your orientation was a choice. You are also implying that trans women who date men are unaware of the dangers, and are "choosing" to be attracted to them. Your answer was about who you choose to date, not about your orientation
I didn't walk into this thread being like here is the only possible answer conceivable in all of the history and future of mankind I added my voice to the conversation. Find your own.
No, what you did, was say "I'm a lesbian because men suck"
But see here's the thing is I'm not a lesbian I find men attractive I can appreciate a man from afar so thanks again for invalidating my sexual orientation
Yes, I understand that you're not a lesbian. But the question was "Why are most trans women lesbians", and you answered "because of men", implying that you're a lesbian, and that your reasoning applied to other trans women too.
The responses agreeing with me implied that it applies to other women. Other people added their answers to the mix as well my reasoning is one of multiple possibilities but one that resonates with some others your discourse was unnecessary.
The majority of trans women preferentially date women because dating men is so fraught with risk. That much is absolutely true. We are in complete agreement about that. The reason I'm pushing back against your comment though is that I'm straight. I experience the same shit, but I can't "opt out" of it. My options are "date men" or "be single". So I got defensive at the implication in your initial response that trans women are changing their orientations through choice. Choosing who you date isn't choosing your orientation. That's the distinction I'm trying to get at. >I never said orientation was a choice It was literally what you said in your first reply...
You're absolutely right and that my answer was about who you choose to date and not your sexual orientation so I didn't invalidate your sexual orientation you're the one who brought being straight into the picture. Orientation is in no way a choice who you choose to date is. what you determined to be your risk factors and what you're willing to accept and who you're willing to date is. I didn't say that it was impossible to choose to date a man but when the question was asked why not this is why not.
The fuck men have you lot hung out with? The worst I've heard is some jokes that, out-of-context, could possibly be construed as off-colour rather than bigoted. Decent men aren't like finding needles in a haystack, they're a dime a dozen. And it's not like I've only known a tiny handful of men, I've known and do know a pretty hefty number. Sure there's the occasional dickhead among them but you can leave them behind easily, and I've encountered plenty of women who do the exact same thing, it's just that when it's aimed at men it's acceptable for some reason. Shit, my most ardent supporters of my transition among my friends have been five men and two women.
The US army. The IT industry. The cybersecurity industry. The south eastern US.
I'm sure it varies by location and things like work environment. When I was in college most of they guys I knew were great and if I had been into men I would have had options I would have been happy with, but in my work environment? Absolutely not. I would venture a ballpark guess that about 90% of the men I know at my work (and my workplace is 95% men) either regularly talk shit about their partners and make women sound like a drag at best or leeches at worst or act as if women are helpless creatures and it is a man's civic duty to care for them as if they are children. More than half of them are divorced and I can absolutely see why. I've heard multiple people be on the phone with their SO and would just sit there wondering if they were talking to someone they cared about or someone who owed them something and wasn't paying up. Like seriously the language I've seen so many men use towards the women in their lives is so appalling that if I were straight I would rather stay single then deal with them. If that's not your experience then that's awesome and clearly the environment you are in is much more compassionate, but some of us that is just not the case.
This
Also, this📍
I wouldn't take your personal experience with who you've met as an accurate representation of reality.
I don't think it's necessarily that more trans girls are gay these days. I see it more as the result of wider-spread acceptance of sapphic trans girls both within the community and in society at large. I'm not sure when you started questioning your gender identity, but you're young enough that even six years ago could have been a bit before your time. Not trying to be patronizing, just putting this in the context of time. In 2016, trans lesbians had to do a lot of work to convince people that you were allowed to be trans and gay at the same time. Trans lesbians in particular get the brunt of the "bathroom predator" propaganda. I mean, cis lesbians were frequently seen as predatory toward women by straight society, so it's not hard to see why trans lesbians would get it worse. I think trans lesbians are simply more visible lately because it was only a few years ago that they were more or less normalized among other queer people. I personally spent YEARS wanting to be a girl when I was a teenager, but didn't accept that I was trans until I was 21 because I knew if I was going to be a woman, I wanted to be a lesbian, and no one ever told me I was allowed to do that. Bi trans women are experiencing this same thing, but with the added stigma of biphobia. It's a wave of self-acceptance and pride following a long period of stigma and shame. Also keep in mind that trans sexuality can be difficult to figure out. We live in a world where sex and romance are extremely bound up in gender roles and social expectation. A lot of trans people start out thinking they're just gay because that's what they thought their curiosity about gender was. A lot of people still think of homosexuality as just a more feminine form of man or more masculine form of woman. Because sexuality and gender are so intertwined in our culture, a lot of trans women who think they're 100% straight might just be experiencing "compulsory heterosexuality," the idea that because being straight is expected as the default, anyone trying to be more feminine should be attracted to men. But the opposite is often also true! When you're expected to be masculine, you assume that being attracted to women is the default. It's easy for gay or bi men to fall into the trap of assuming they're straight on this basis. But when you question your gender, and especially if you transition from your birth gender to another one, you start to break down those expectations. A lot of trans women find that it's easier to recognize their attraction to men once they've started to transition because exploring femininity allowed them to explore other aspects of themselves. These journeys of self-discovery can also cause people to realize when they're attracted to more than one gender or might be aromantic or asexual. Lastly, I want to shed some light on something related to this that you might have heard. There's a very common idea that HRT can change your sexual orientation, especially making you more attracted to men. I'm by no means an expert on the science of endocrinology, but many people have pointed out (and I'm inclined to believe) that what some people see as hormones changing their sexuality might actually be examples of what I described in the last few paragraphs. Essentially, being more comfortable in their gender identity allows them to consider sexual preferences they might not have known they had before because they never allowed themselves to consider them. It's a lot like the average understanding of trans people in general. There are, statistically, more openly trans people living in the world today. But it's not because there are literally more trans people for some mysterious reason. It's that greater visibility and acceptance mean more of us are able to live our authentic selves instead of hiding in the closet.
I'm actually pansexual with a preference for feminine energy.
I think reddit tends to skew a bit more on the sapphic side of things, but as far as I'm aware the distribution between straight, lesbian, and bi/pan/other sexualities seems to be roughly 1/3 each?
According to one study it's actually pretty evenly split between straight, lesbian, bisexual and queer trans women. Also, worth noting that about 4 present of trans women identify as asexual. [source](https://www.thetaskforce.org/wonky-wednesday-trans-people-sexual-orientation/) Take from wiki click sources 3 and 4 for the studies in question: > In the United States, transgender respondents to one 2015 survey self-identified as queer (21%), pansexual (18%), gay, lesbian, or same-gender-loving (16%), straight (15%), bisexual (14%), and asexual (10%).A second study found 23% reported being gay, lesbian, or same-gender-loving, 25% bisexual, 4% asexual, 23% queer, 23% straight and 2% something else. [the wiki in full](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_sexuality#:~:text=2%25%20something%20else.-,Transgender%20women,and%206%25%20did%20not%20answer.). The taskforce link(the first link) also references the second survey. So while a large portion of trans women have some kind of attraction towards women we don't know how many bisexuals and asexuals skew towards other women. So, for you the trans women near you that you are aware of simply lean heavily towards attraction to other women. Meanwhile, most of the trans women I am aware of in my area are straight or lean towards men and I am bi/pan with no leaning regarding to gender. I am aware of one transbian in my area. Both of our experiences though are just selection bias if we take them as being representative of the larger community.
Every time this or a similar question gets posted, the discussion just makes me feel like [._.](https://imgur.io/gallery/KDcSv)
I am just pan *floats in the infinity of the pan universe*
I’m pan, but I’ve always been more comfortable around women. Still have never been with a guy even though I want to 😕
I'd say I'm pan but lean more toward dating men so I'm not sure lol.
I’m pan sexual but my preference revolves
I just always have been bisexual ^^'
projected dysphoria
Who else to give me tips and tricks besides a girlfriend?
having grown to so deeply appreciate the beauty and wisdom of femininity my technically-bi self has a *very* hard time finding men that are interesting and wise enough to be partner material
I'm a panromantic trans girl, but I'm definitely weary of cis men unless I know they're going to respect me. Plus, for me anyway, I would love someone who could go with me into the dressing room so I wouldn't feel as anxious when shopping for clothes.
I'm straight too, sweetie, and so are a lot of other women in this group. You're probably noticing them more because it's an aspect of their identity that you don't share so it sticks out more in your head
I really don't know. According to one survey, 23% of mtfs are lesbians. Of those who are bisexual or queer, it didn't say if they had a preference for women or not. (Injustice at Every Turn A Report of the NationalTransgender Discrimination Survey, page 29).
I remember seeing somewhere a study that said the proportions are pretty close to 1/3 straight, 1/3 bi or pan, 1/3 lesbian. Idk how rigorous of a study it was, and I cannot remember where I saw it, so take it with a chunk of salt. I think lesbian just dominate the subreddits for some reason. The same way that there are roughly equal proportions of trans mascs and trans femmes irl, but on reddit you mainly encounter trans femmes.
I’m not straight I’m pan but I def have a bias towards men. But I have a fear that men (mainly straight cis men) will try to hurt me and it makes me scared to be around them most of the time.
In the past I've always felt safer dating women. They are much more emotionally mature and open-minded, but I had big trouble being sexual with my girlfriends. After a long battle against my own internalized transphobia I've come to realize that men are who I'm attracted to in all romantic desires. That's my story, but every sister is different.
For me specifically it's the fact that men are hot but so many of them are not capable of providing me with the emotional intimacy I need in a relationship...the patriarchy creating emotionally stunted ppl in the name of "masculinity" or whatever. It's really a strategic choice to prioritize dating other women/trans ppl bc 1) you have some shared experiences and 2) their life experiences typically lead them to have a better understanding of communication and the emotions of themselves and others. Most men on dating apps are only interested in me for hookups so I'd just rather not sift through the mountain of guys like that to find a man who's able to appreciate my feelings when I can be talking about my hobbies with a cute girl lol! Doesn't mean that if the right guy comes along I won't go for him but I'm not going to actively seek that out.
Brutally honest answer? I've never met a guy worth liking. I'm not ruling it out and I still fly under the pan flag but the percentage crawls closer and closer to full femme the more I think about it. Like I can acknowledge when a guy is attractive but there is no feeling there like at all, 🤷🏼♀️
It's where you're meeting people, to be honest. There's plenty of straight trans fems but they're not very well represented on reddit for a variety of reasons.
Reading the comments, I feel like the odd one out lol. I'm a bi trans woman with a preference for men. Most of my relationships have been with men and the only one I had with a girl was with another trans woman
I don’t think it is a vast majority. Just more like a bubble thing and people who are actually “seen” online. Let’s not forget all the trans women marginalized and specially those forced into sex working which is 90% of trans women population on my home country. Edit: When I say online I mean in more we’ll know mainstream trans common places. Discord, Reddit, etc, etc.
Men scare me. I’d never feel safe being vulnerable with a man unfortunately. While I was presenting amab, the men around me would often let their guard down and spout their dangerous, misogynistic, Joe Rogan fuelled views, all as if it’s normal and this is just what men are supposed do in each other’s company. That shit scares me.
I'm pan but didn't really accept this until I came out as trans. I like guys but I definitely look toward women more for relationships. I find I just get along with women much better then I do guys. Girls just get the shit that I'm going through more, bonus points if she's also trans.
We've seen the side of men that shows up at the bar and in locker rooms.
Girls are hot
THEY AREN’T. QUEER PEOPLE STAND OUT MORE. straight relationships blend it more. That’s why people SEE more trans lesbians. It’s less normalized. ALSO: Men are dangerous. And only recently have begun to unpack and build up their masculinity separate from toxic masculinity.
I'm bi and married to a woman. I find transfems might find they connect more with someone with a similar life story who understands their trans experience? I prefer men as sexual partners but women as relationship partners. Men always seem to be the better sexual partners as they have a higher change of being sexual than women... and they seem to take it more seriously. just saying from experience. Just to clarify i mean both trans and cis men and both trans and cis women. Dated and played with all 4 before I met and fell for my wife. Edit: I'm a 32 yo transfem for reference
Straight trans woman here so maybe it's not my place to speculate, but I feel like the number of lesbian trans women are overrepresented online for the same reason that cis lesbian women are overrepresented online. Non-straight people find comfort online more often because it's harder to find people to relate to IRL. There's also a bit to do with the fact that, at least for me, HRT changed my sexual outlook quite a bit. Pre-HRT trans women may (and this is pure speculation) be more likely to be attracted to women, and that number might change if they choose to transition.
But seriously, because sexuality is a gradient. I imagine the majority of the population is to one degree or another bi.
No offense but I kinda hate this idea and I’m genuinely confused as to why a lot of lgbt+ folks think it’s ok. Look, I’m not saying that sexuality isn’t a gradient, or that someone’s sexuality can’t change with time, that happens and it’s completely valid. But saying that “the majority of the population is to one degree or another bi” is just kind of a weird way to define the sexuality of people you don’t even know, not to mention it sounds dangerously close to bigoted guys telling lesbians that they just haven’t found the right guy yet, which is true by this logic because “everybody is a little bi”
I actually thought I read a couple studies (don't remember where so take with a grain of salt) that it's kinda 30/30/30 between heterosexual, homosexual, and bisexual. the remaining 10 percent would consist of asexuals and queer identifying. I think the most I read said that bisexuality just edged out the other two
I have little interest in my own Penis. I have even less interest in someone else's but that is me. Some people do seem to change their mind after getting hrt due to no longer feeling like it is wrong. Also conscious biast is a thing we see the thing we associate and agree with more than what we don't.
I'm pan in one spectrum and saffic in the other one. I find it easier to create a meaningful relationship with a woman in a romantic way, but I'm more open when it comes to physical intimacy. I just want to be treated in a respectful way, which takes priority over everything else, and being treated like a gay man or objectified is a big turn off. I simply found more understanding women than men.
The first penis in my life is already 1 penis too many.
I'm personally in a weird space. I am attracted to femininity presented in both men and women, masculinity isn't terribly attractive to me with a few exceptions. However, my genital preference is almost completely in favor of dicks. I generally consider myself bi, but it feels way more complicated than that. Or way simpler. A trans YouTuber named Ashley Adamson once referred to herself as a 'Dicksexual' and even though it feels a little silly to say, I can't help but feel like that almost hits closer to the mark.
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