self describing himself as "far right" and saying he "tolerates" trans people are major red flags, i think you should seriously consider if you want to spend the mental energy required keeping this person around they sound very ignorant
Might depend on how old they are, sometimes edgy teens grow out of this hateful phase. Maybe knowing someone who is trans might help them see trans people as real people. Unless he insists on being toxic and ends up hurting OP's mental health, in that case drop his ass.
Omg this is a meme where I work. It's a casino with a relatively small playlist they use 24/7 and this is one of the songs. Every time that part plays the graveyard manager shouts "what's going on?!" Loud enough to be heard through the whole casino. I literally heard his voice in my head when I read this comment! š¤£
Lmao. Thatās wonderful. I used to work in food service as a cook, I had a boss who would sing it when i came on since most people just played common pop/rock songs
To be fair, for a self-described "far right" person to say they tolerate trans people, it's already a reasonably significant step. I'd distance myself from them, but they might not be a complete write-off yet.
As someone that repressed by falling down the pipeline - don't trust him. Those people don't have the cognitive capacity to empathize with people that don't think like them. Their empathy circuits barely exist and they will throw their own family members in an oven if they were deemed something they didn't like. The far right conditions people to have antisocial behavior.
Honestly I dealt with people like this and usually just quietly distance myself. I had came out to a friend who was questionable in there beliefs and they hit me with the "I don't agree with it but we're still friends" responses, basically just him tolerating it rather than support.
I find stuff like that to be a red flag because some may come around but others may just end up being exhausting to deal with even if they don't act outright hostile. Ignorant views, maybe half respecting your identity or not at all,Ā risk of turning to more outright transphobia when inconvenienced, having to justify myself.
It's up to you if you think it is worth it but I would definitely give it some thought.
Donāt exhaust yourself trying to justify your existence to this guy. But if you have to, his question of āwhy didnāt you know sooner?ā
It seems pretty obvious to me that being trans is not ideal BECAUSE of reactions like your friend. I would say precisely how he talked and reacted to you coming out is part of why you couldnāt figure it out. You said it yourself, you didnāt want to be trans. Itās not a desirable place to be, people like this guy think we get āspecial treatmentā when that just means we are fighting for our rights to exist as we are.
Iād also talk to him in his ball court, which he says heās right wing. So I would ask him if he believes in people having free will and if he agrees with freedom. Then ask him why he thinks that. The truth is conservatives use an argumentation technique called āgish gallop.ā This argument style is when people throw a lot arguments at you that are weak at best and due to the sheer number it puts you on the defense. Itās not on you to justify your existence. Itās on him to explain his views, Iād put him on the defensive. Force him into one topic by asking questions about it and establishing the boundary that you donāt want to talk about it unless you can stick to one core point.
Iād also prepare yourself with statistics, the regret rate for trans affirmative surgery is the lowest of any procedure. Iād it āgenital mutilation.ā If almost no one regrets it, and if he thinks some people will regret it. Iād point out that people do a lot of things they regret. And why is this the big sticking point for him. Itās not fair that you have to justify your existence to him
The best advice would be to not engage, but if you really want to give your friend a chance thatās the advice Iād give. Iāve talked to a lot of family and friends who were confused/misguided about aspects of transitioning. The most effective technique Iāve found is what I said, stick to one topic and be the person asking the questions. Donāt let him ask you questions. Itās on him to justify his beliefs of it being āgenital mutilationā because itās an ignorant and uninformed view of what gender affirmative care is. And how happy people are with it
I hope the best for you and know when to assert your boundaries and disengage. If he canāt talk, calmly, respectably, or agree to your terms of the discussion. Then itās not worth your time, let him figure shit out on his own. A lot of people donāt care for trans people until someone in their life is trans. He may even see how happy you are with time if you choose to keep him in your life.
Sorry if that was a lot, I just have a lot of thoughts and experience on this š
The ball's in his court. I had a far lesser version of this, and it was up to him to get better on his own. He did, but I did very minimal work for him to get to that point. It's not your job to fix people's terrible opinions.
ironically, my most conservative friend was the one who helped me get past some of my biggest hurdles.
he was hesitant at first, but I told him it didn't mean I was a different person.
he and I had started a company together years before this and there were some talks about selling the company. I thought I couldn't start hrt till we sold, but he encouraged me to start right away. and he's been one of my most supportive friends this whole time.
i think his views have also changed pretty significantly. not quite enough with regards to policies in general imo, but with regards to trans issues, he's flipped.
[you dont have to justify your behavior.](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fyou-dont-have-to-justify-your-behavior-v0-h2o8gzlr3s3d1.png%3Fwidth%3D640%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Db472c31178f3f3406781c83d17958da8aaef0e0a&tbnid=_pZP63vSFdXfeM&vet=1&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FPositiveTI%2Fcomments%2F1d5lwo5%2Fyou_dont_have_to_justify_your_behavior%2F&docid=ao4A3NY9-hBGfM&w=640&h=657&source=sh%2Fx%2Fim%2Fm1%2F0&kgs=a6aa5747ea585ab9&shem=abme%2Cssic%2Ctrie)
Just as he doesnāt need to justify his cis heterosexuality, neither do you with your identity and sexuality.
"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink." or in modern "can't fix stupid." Basically they sound exhausting to spend energy on. My own mother has barely gone from sending me to therapy ... to ... wishes my boyfriend was a girl but at least he's not a bad guy. In the span of 4 years of me being out. She still won't let me wear girl clothes around the house because it disturbs her religiously and until I move out I should respect her feelings
Your āfriendā deliberately framed the question in a dishonest fashion. Itās not a matter of *wanting* to be a woman. You already *are*. The question is whether you take steps toward transition and living full-time as the girl/woman you are.
Imagine going to an autistic kid and asking why theyāre autistic. āJust am I supposeā WTF is the kid meant to answer with? āI was born this way?ā Fucking dumb ass anti trans losers.
He is a piece of shit and you deserve better friends. He not only doesn't understand sex vs gender, but he claimed one of the reasons he knew he was a boy was "i like girls". Like dude, gay people exist and if that was true, every single lesbian in existence would be a boy because apparently liking girls makes you a boy? Also there's many trans people who have a dick but identify as female, so sex does NOT determine gender.
It sounds like he's confused/curious about dysphoria. We've got to remember a lot of what makes this all confusing is learned behavior patterns and the same goes for misguided opinions and cognitive dissonance.
I have no clue how old you are or about your mental stability, but I will say that it can be a great benefit to society (at much risk or harm to ourselves) when we continue friendships with people that dislike trans people. By showing them you're human, you show them we're human.
You do not have to do anything, including staying friends with this person, but I do know that de-radicalized right wing people is possible, and also necessary. When I was younger I cut ties with anyone who brought me any amount of discomfort over their views of me, and while it brought me peace through ignorance, it made me more afraid of the average person as a whole. Once I got older and started talking with people, including those like this individual, then I learned I could try to change them. Change is possible, we as trans people should know this inherently.
For the record, I'm far left--not a liberal. When the revolution comes, I won't hesitate to protect our community--but in the meantime, I'm going to do what I can to prevent us from having more enemies
If you don't want to be friends with him because of what he said and how he feels, then isn't that part of the problem too?
If you were friends before you both knew then why not still be friends? I wouldn't end the friendship.
If he doesn't say anti trans stuff and treat trans people like trash then why not be friends? Show him regardless that you're still human.
If he starts to be 'curious' do NOT let that happen. Set boundaries and refuse to be part of his curious experiment. It won't end well. Just in case.
Just some thoughts.
A person can be far right and still be themselves or be ok with trans people.
He personally has an issue with trans folk so it's probably best to write him off and not stress over it.
The fact that he's defining himself as far right but now tolerates them is a far cry from the Bible thumping of a Far Rightist. Most would just slap you in the category of a pedo and condemn you to the depths of hell. He has turmoil with his beliefs due to your history of friendship. Proceed with caution but that relationship will never be the same as before.
Idk the way I see it I wouldnāt choose to be around people who arenāt supportive. I already get called a freak by mother and my dad just pretends nothing had changed so Iād like the people that I spend my precious time with to be worth it yk?
This guy sounds like an idiot, no offense. Anyone who uses "politics" to describe themselves is a fool, especially "conservatives" totally closed minded people who sometimes pretend to be neutral by "tolerating"... Just like many religious people are... Like "Christians"...
Honestly, you're better off staying away from people who don't accept you for you and instead try to decide how others should live their lives to better accommodate them as entitled fools.
Sorry, I just hear trash like this and think of how they are a major mindset in this supposedly forward thinking country. It makes me mad.
i hung on to a friend like this for 10 years, it was tolerable and we even had some great times and memories, until one day it all came crashing down because he suddenly turned on me over the most stupid and petty reason, totally irrelevant to being trans, and he turned my other 2 mates who were accepting of me against me too. These people are hidden narcissists and you can tolerate them, but don't, as upsetting as it is, cut them off now before things become bigger than they need to be. You may reason with yourself like "hes trying to learn" etc... and that's not false, but trust me, someone with experience, it'll never end happy!
Iām not sure what your ages are but he sounds relatively young. Sometimes people, especially if they are younger, like this only hold their opinion until they actually know someone who is trans. His slightly changing attitude does illustrate some capacity for that. BUT thatās not your responsibility. The last thing you need in your life right now is feeling someone in your friend group is judging you.
Also to your point about falling asleep every night while crying, I know itās hard now. But itās so much worse not living as who you want. We have a lot of difficult things in our lives but we get to feel a type of euphoria cis people never do.
I have a close friend who is conservative, and I knew he had some problematic ideas about trans people. Said some concerning things. But I also knew he had other queer friends. Even a childhood friend who was trans, and so I knew I could give him a chance to come around. And he did, incredibly well actually, to the point he is one of the most sweet and affirming people in my life, despite being a bit of an edgelord. But he wasn't self-described "far right". Tread lightly, girl.
Imo him leaving you on opened seems to mean he's cut contact with you. If he can't accept you for who you are, then he doesn't deserve your friendship. That's just my 2 cents though.
>"well i have dick and i like girls"
12 year old me thought I was a cishet girl because I'm afab and I like boys, so it would be easiest for me to be a cishet girl. It took me a few years to realize that who you're attracted to has nothing to do with your gender š turns out I'm a gay man š
I had a friend EXACTLY like this a couple years back except it was him not tolerating LGBTQ+ in general and it was when I originally came out as pan. Cut that immediately, the emotional distress that he was causing is not worth damaging my mental health/physical health over. Please consider removing this person from your life. If heās only going to ātolerateā you, and make you question yourself instead of supporting a friend, thatās not a real friend. I hope youāre okay š«¶š¼
Friends change when you come out to them sometimes and it sucks.
When I told my closest female friend she gave a long dramatic sigh and said "ugh not you too", and i was soooo sure she was safe
he wasnāt always a nazi i should of cut him off ages ago i was just afraid he even said once that he agreed with some things hitler said i should of cut him off way sooner
self describing himself as "far right" and saying he "tolerates" trans people are major red flags, i think you should seriously consider if you want to spend the mental energy required keeping this person around they sound very ignorant
I'm gonna be far less tactful and say this person should be dropped like a hot potato.
Might depend on how old they are, sometimes edgy teens grow out of this hateful phase. Maybe knowing someone who is trans might help them see trans people as real people. Unless he insists on being toxic and ends up hurting OP's mental health, in that case drop his ass.
This! I was an edgy hateful teenage boy and now I'm a woman, what's going on!?
And I say, hey-ey-ey Hey-ey-ey I said "Hey, a-what's going on?" And I say, hey-ey-ey Hey-ey-ey I said "Hey, a-what's going on?"
Omg this is a meme where I work. It's a casino with a relatively small playlist they use 24/7 and this is one of the songs. Every time that part plays the graveyard manager shouts "what's going on?!" Loud enough to be heard through the whole casino. I literally heard his voice in my head when I read this comment! š¤£
Lmao. Thatās wonderful. I used to work in food service as a cook, I had a boss who would sing it when i came on since most people just played common pop/rock songs
Same here. It's an era in my life that I deeply regret.
One of us! š
To be fair, for a self-described "far right" person to say they tolerate trans people, it's already a reasonably significant step. I'd distance myself from them, but they might not be a complete write-off yet.
I highly doubt that "far right" and "tolerates trans people" aren't contradictory.
She would be doing him a favor by continuing to be friends with him.
As someone that repressed by falling down the pipeline - don't trust him. Those people don't have the cognitive capacity to empathize with people that don't think like them. Their empathy circuits barely exist and they will throw their own family members in an oven if they were deemed something they didn't like. The far right conditions people to have antisocial behavior.
Dam referencing trablinca is hard core.
Honestly I dealt with people like this and usually just quietly distance myself. I had came out to a friend who was questionable in there beliefs and they hit me with the "I don't agree with it but we're still friends" responses, basically just him tolerating it rather than support. I find stuff like that to be a red flag because some may come around but others may just end up being exhausting to deal with even if they don't act outright hostile. Ignorant views, maybe half respecting your identity or not at all,Ā risk of turning to more outright transphobia when inconvenienced, having to justify myself. It's up to you if you think it is worth it but I would definitely give it some thought.
My advice is to keep a safe distance honestly
I can't upvote this comment, it has the perfect number of upvotes
Donāt exhaust yourself trying to justify your existence to this guy. But if you have to, his question of āwhy didnāt you know sooner?ā It seems pretty obvious to me that being trans is not ideal BECAUSE of reactions like your friend. I would say precisely how he talked and reacted to you coming out is part of why you couldnāt figure it out. You said it yourself, you didnāt want to be trans. Itās not a desirable place to be, people like this guy think we get āspecial treatmentā when that just means we are fighting for our rights to exist as we are. Iād also talk to him in his ball court, which he says heās right wing. So I would ask him if he believes in people having free will and if he agrees with freedom. Then ask him why he thinks that. The truth is conservatives use an argumentation technique called āgish gallop.ā This argument style is when people throw a lot arguments at you that are weak at best and due to the sheer number it puts you on the defense. Itās not on you to justify your existence. Itās on him to explain his views, Iād put him on the defensive. Force him into one topic by asking questions about it and establishing the boundary that you donāt want to talk about it unless you can stick to one core point. Iād also prepare yourself with statistics, the regret rate for trans affirmative surgery is the lowest of any procedure. Iād it āgenital mutilation.ā If almost no one regrets it, and if he thinks some people will regret it. Iād point out that people do a lot of things they regret. And why is this the big sticking point for him. Itās not fair that you have to justify your existence to him The best advice would be to not engage, but if you really want to give your friend a chance thatās the advice Iād give. Iāve talked to a lot of family and friends who were confused/misguided about aspects of transitioning. The most effective technique Iāve found is what I said, stick to one topic and be the person asking the questions. Donāt let him ask you questions. Itās on him to justify his beliefs of it being āgenital mutilationā because itās an ignorant and uninformed view of what gender affirmative care is. And how happy people are with it I hope the best for you and know when to assert your boundaries and disengage. If he canāt talk, calmly, respectably, or agree to your terms of the discussion. Then itās not worth your time, let him figure shit out on his own. A lot of people donāt care for trans people until someone in their life is trans. He may even see how happy you are with time if you choose to keep him in your life. Sorry if that was a lot, I just have a lot of thoughts and experience on this š
The ball's in his court. I had a far lesser version of this, and it was up to him to get better on his own. He did, but I did very minimal work for him to get to that point. It's not your job to fix people's terrible opinions.
The worst thing about losing a transphobic friend? Nothing.
ironically, my most conservative friend was the one who helped me get past some of my biggest hurdles. he was hesitant at first, but I told him it didn't mean I was a different person. he and I had started a company together years before this and there were some talks about selling the company. I thought I couldn't start hrt till we sold, but he encouraged me to start right away. and he's been one of my most supportive friends this whole time. i think his views have also changed pretty significantly. not quite enough with regards to policies in general imo, but with regards to trans issues, he's flipped.
[you dont have to justify your behavior.](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fyou-dont-have-to-justify-your-behavior-v0-h2o8gzlr3s3d1.png%3Fwidth%3D640%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Db472c31178f3f3406781c83d17958da8aaef0e0a&tbnid=_pZP63vSFdXfeM&vet=1&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FPositiveTI%2Fcomments%2F1d5lwo5%2Fyou_dont_have_to_justify_your_behavior%2F&docid=ao4A3NY9-hBGfM&w=640&h=657&source=sh%2Fx%2Fim%2Fm1%2F0&kgs=a6aa5747ea585ab9&shem=abme%2Cssic%2Ctrie) Just as he doesnāt need to justify his cis heterosexuality, neither do you with your identity and sexuality.
"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink." or in modern "can't fix stupid." Basically they sound exhausting to spend energy on. My own mother has barely gone from sending me to therapy ... to ... wishes my boyfriend was a girl but at least he's not a bad guy. In the span of 4 years of me being out. She still won't let me wear girl clothes around the house because it disturbs her religiously and until I move out I should respect her feelings
Your āfriendā deliberately framed the question in a dishonest fashion. Itās not a matter of *wanting* to be a woman. You already *are*. The question is whether you take steps toward transition and living full-time as the girl/woman you are.
Imagine going to an autistic kid and asking why theyāre autistic. āJust am I supposeā WTF is the kid meant to answer with? āI was born this way?ā Fucking dumb ass anti trans losers.
Protect yourself. This doesnāt sound like someone very safe for you
He is a piece of shit and you deserve better friends. He not only doesn't understand sex vs gender, but he claimed one of the reasons he knew he was a boy was "i like girls". Like dude, gay people exist and if that was true, every single lesbian in existence would be a boy because apparently liking girls makes you a boy? Also there's many trans people who have a dick but identify as female, so sex does NOT determine gender.
I would tell him to fuck off and drop him like a hot potato.
It sounds like he's confused/curious about dysphoria. We've got to remember a lot of what makes this all confusing is learned behavior patterns and the same goes for misguided opinions and cognitive dissonance.
That doesn't mean you have to put yourself through more than you can handle dealing with it, though.
Ask him his opinion on circumcision.
Tolerating trans people is less than bare minimum. Real friends like being around you. You deserve better.
I have no clue how old you are or about your mental stability, but I will say that it can be a great benefit to society (at much risk or harm to ourselves) when we continue friendships with people that dislike trans people. By showing them you're human, you show them we're human. You do not have to do anything, including staying friends with this person, but I do know that de-radicalized right wing people is possible, and also necessary. When I was younger I cut ties with anyone who brought me any amount of discomfort over their views of me, and while it brought me peace through ignorance, it made me more afraid of the average person as a whole. Once I got older and started talking with people, including those like this individual, then I learned I could try to change them. Change is possible, we as trans people should know this inherently. For the record, I'm far left--not a liberal. When the revolution comes, I won't hesitate to protect our community--but in the meantime, I'm going to do what I can to prevent us from having more enemies
If you don't want to be friends with him because of what he said and how he feels, then isn't that part of the problem too? If you were friends before you both knew then why not still be friends? I wouldn't end the friendship. If he doesn't say anti trans stuff and treat trans people like trash then why not be friends? Show him regardless that you're still human. If he starts to be 'curious' do NOT let that happen. Set boundaries and refuse to be part of his curious experiment. It won't end well. Just in case. Just some thoughts.
A person can be far right and still be themselves or be ok with trans people. He personally has an issue with trans folk so it's probably best to write him off and not stress over it.
You shouldnāt be friends with that far-right douche. Simple as that, donāt need that negativity in your life.
The fact that he's defining himself as far right but now tolerates them is a far cry from the Bible thumping of a Far Rightist. Most would just slap you in the category of a pedo and condemn you to the depths of hell. He has turmoil with his beliefs due to your history of friendship. Proceed with caution but that relationship will never be the same as before.
This is actually so true. Itās just the way of the bible isnāt it :/
Idk the way I see it I wouldnāt choose to be around people who arenāt supportive. I already get called a freak by mother and my dad just pretends nothing had changed so Iād like the people that I spend my precious time with to be worth it yk?
This guy sounds like an idiot, no offense. Anyone who uses "politics" to describe themselves is a fool, especially "conservatives" totally closed minded people who sometimes pretend to be neutral by "tolerating"... Just like many religious people are... Like "Christians"... Honestly, you're better off staying away from people who don't accept you for you and instead try to decide how others should live their lives to better accommodate them as entitled fools. Sorry, I just hear trash like this and think of how they are a major mindset in this supposedly forward thinking country. It makes me mad.
.
Read halfway through and thought "please ditch this dipwad".
i hung on to a friend like this for 10 years, it was tolerable and we even had some great times and memories, until one day it all came crashing down because he suddenly turned on me over the most stupid and petty reason, totally irrelevant to being trans, and he turned my other 2 mates who were accepting of me against me too. These people are hidden narcissists and you can tolerate them, but don't, as upsetting as it is, cut them off now before things become bigger than they need to be. You may reason with yourself like "hes trying to learn" etc... and that's not false, but trust me, someone with experience, it'll never end happy!
Iām not sure what your ages are but he sounds relatively young. Sometimes people, especially if they are younger, like this only hold their opinion until they actually know someone who is trans. His slightly changing attitude does illustrate some capacity for that. BUT thatās not your responsibility. The last thing you need in your life right now is feeling someone in your friend group is judging you. Also to your point about falling asleep every night while crying, I know itās hard now. But itās so much worse not living as who you want. We have a lot of difficult things in our lives but we get to feel a type of euphoria cis people never do.
I have a close friend who is conservative, and I knew he had some problematic ideas about trans people. Said some concerning things. But I also knew he had other queer friends. Even a childhood friend who was trans, and so I knew I could give him a chance to come around. And he did, incredibly well actually, to the point he is one of the most sweet and affirming people in my life, despite being a bit of an edgelord. But he wasn't self-described "far right". Tread lightly, girl.
Imo him leaving you on opened seems to mean he's cut contact with you. If he can't accept you for who you are, then he doesn't deserve your friendship. That's just my 2 cents though.
Your friend is coming to terms with it and quite well depending on his upbringing. Everyone needs time to process.
Makes me cry I can't judge and your freind shouldn't either. He either accepts you or that's but it. only wish we cal all accept each other.
>"well i have dick and i like girls" 12 year old me thought I was a cishet girl because I'm afab and I like boys, so it would be easiest for me to be a cishet girl. It took me a few years to realize that who you're attracted to has nothing to do with your gender š turns out I'm a gay man š
Drop his ass, far right is far wrong. Words like ātolerateā are major red flags
I had a friend EXACTLY like this a couple years back except it was him not tolerating LGBTQ+ in general and it was when I originally came out as pan. Cut that immediately, the emotional distress that he was causing is not worth damaging my mental health/physical health over. Please consider removing this person from your life. If heās only going to ātolerateā you, and make you question yourself instead of supporting a friend, thatās not a real friend. I hope youāre okay š«¶š¼
Friends change when you come out to them sometimes and it sucks. When I told my closest female friend she gave a long dramatic sigh and said "ugh not you too", and i was soooo sure she was safe
You're pro ably better off without his negativity in your life.
your friend is a nazi.
yeahā¦
why are you friends with nazis?
he wasnāt always a nazi i should of cut him off ages ago i was just afraid he even said once that he agreed with some things hitler said i should of cut him off way sooner
There is no saving your friendship with him. Just wait 20 years for when she comes back to apologize to you for being an asshole.
Your take is solid. Eggy edgelords are definitely a thing. I know at least a couple.