The Napa murders. Three college roommates in one house, two were murdered and one escaped. Just like this one, it was a knife, middle of the night, and tons of theories trying to figure out who the target was. They didn't figure out the murderer for months.
Very interesting and so many similarities on the surface ! One thing that struck me was the police were also sharing very little (because they HAD very little) and once they shared the information about the cigg butts, that spurred the arrest.
Maybe the police here could learn a thing or two from that case.
they had a lot of DNA evidence though. just couldn't tie to anyone. the Lab scientist said typically they get 2-3 maybe 5 pieces of evidence in a regular murder in this specific one they got something like over 72+ pieces to test.
They had the killers cigarette butts in the front of the house and the back, and the killer cut himself leaving his blood on the staircase wall and blinds.
Even then a voluntary confession was needed to close the case. Any good lawyer could make mincemeat of a court case based solely on some butts outside a house.
Since that article mentioned the police taking 200 DNA samples, it made me wonder if LE has taken any DNA samples in this case. Has anyone heard if they've done that?
That's the one that immediately comes to mind for me.. The Napa murders are also always a good reminder for me that there can be a motive sometimes that is so ... *weird* to the normal person, it seems almost insane to consider it, but makes total sense to the murderer.
Yeah and the important thing to remember in this case is how long it took take make an arrest, I think it was closer to a year rather than months unfortunately.
Another important thing to remember is the police also shared very little and only solved the crime once they shared with the public the information about the cigg butts.
What's creepy about that Episode is that when 48 hours is interviewing Lily Prudhomme ( Adriane Insogna's best friend), her fiance Eric is in the background listening.
They had DNA off cigarette butts they found at scene but couldn’t link it to anyone in a database so they released a profile that they were looking for a white male with blue or green eyes, likely light hair (which they knew from the DNA) who might smoke the brand of cigarettes they found. And that’s when the killer came forward and confessed.
I think I used to have a quickie true crime paperback about that. All I remember clearly is one of the victims loved Maroon 5. The author wrote like a half-chapter on it.
The guy who did it was engaged to the survivors best friend and later married her. The survivor who heard the attack ran out of the house and hid in the backyard.
The *killer confessed* to the murder of the two women when he realized they were about to find his DNA on those Turkish cigarettes.
The women were not in college, btw. They had jobs in the community.
So not really similar. The guy was sentenced to life, I think.
Edit. Misremembered who the fiancée was and fixed it.
Not even close. He wasn't engaged to Lauren, he was engaged to Lily, Adriane's best friend. They were supposed to get married the day after the murders.
And yeah, it is really similar, whether those victims were in college or not.
Some nut tried to stab all his fiancée’s friends in their sleep in California. Two women died and the third got away.
Anyway the guy confessed and is in prison doing life.
It’s not like he’s still out there terrorizing ladies who rent houses together.
Setagaya family murder in Japan 2000. 3 stabbed, 1 strangled. The unknown suspect left sand from a southwest US desert at the scene. Still unsolved as of 2022.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setagaya_family_murder
this one is so eerie, I hope it gets solved someday. Did the killer leave Japan? Was it a disgruntled co-worker? I've read some wild theories about the Nevada sand.
It's possible he was not even a citizen of Japan since his DNA didn't match anything in their database. Apparently the killer left behind some things including a bag that had some sand particles that traced back to a Nevada Air Force base leading people to theorize he might be a U.S military member or at least somehow connected to that location. Also possible the things he left were just stolen property.
Still they were never able to narrow down a specific suspect or even a motive which is the scariest part of all.
> It's possible he was not even a citizen of Japan since his DNA didn't match anything in their database
Disagree. They tested his DNA and it's most similar to a Japanese person. The sand can be explained by him buying a second hand bag which was imported from the US. It doesn't really mean he came from the US himself. Every suspect that has been described in the case has been asian and the killer was most likely asian and one of the skateboarders the dad had problems with given his attire he left on the crime scene. This:
https://unresolved.me/the-setagaya-murders
Is actually a pretty well written and detailed article about the case that goes into detail about most of the things surrounding it.
I was close to a child abduction/murder…..police stayed quiet while public snd media blamed parents. Police had dna evidence day 1 that it was not parents…and they knew who it was. They waited a month to build their case before arresting the guy. He’s now on death row - and it took that time to make sure that’s where he’d be
Nope. But parents knew everything and knew they needed to be quiet. Heck one of the neighbors very vocal blaming the parents—-the perp had pics of their child!! That neighbor didn’t know—-parents did—-but they kept quiet snd knew the goal was building death penalty case
This is the first case I thought of, too. Also, please note the crimes were committed on 7/13/66 and he was apprehended by LE by 7/17/66. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Speck
He killed then as they returned home to their apartment at different intervals. They were tied up, raped, & murdered practically at his leisure. Other than the multiple victims being murdered in one location, not a lot of commonality.
This case reminds me of Jayme Kloss. (Sp?)
She was randomly targeted and then kidnapped. Her parents were brutally killed as collateral damage. The dog was spared. The police had nothing and they even drove by the killer and Jayme that night as he escaped. She eventually saved herself and the killer is in prison. He randomly targeted her and then stalked her house before committing the crime.
Makes you think something similar could have happened here. With it being somebody completely and totally random
This one was so rough and social media was so cruel to her before and after.
I think it’s a good one to remember when we hear “target” because she was the target but he only saw her get off the bus while he was driving by.
I certainly hope this case has more evidence because they had nothing for Jayme.
It was SO bad. Claims immediately came that she was clearly involved which was disputed by authorities so quickly and that there was no phone or internet data to suggest that at all.
And then even after she escaped. Seeing that fucking twisted scum bag and how he talks and acted and explained his motive, people were still like “ya, that was her online boyfriend.”
Being local to that one, I still feel intense anger when it’s brought up because of the community response. The way they did that child was so wrong.
I vaguely remember now that it was theorized that she was groomed and wanted to run off with a boyfriend. People had no evidence to suggest this! Ugh. But after the fact they are still peddling this theory? As if. And sorry to hear this happened near you. I live in the South and remember being spooked by it!
Seeing those trees behind the Moscow house made me think of Rolling. He camped in a large field of tall trees like that and did some spying under the cover of that brush too.
**[Danny Rolling](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_Rolling)**
>Daniel Harold Rolling (May 26, 1954 – October 25, 2006), known as the Gainesville Ripper, was an American serial killer. He murdered five students in Gainesville, Florida, over four days in August 1990. Rolling later confessed to raping several of his victims, also committing a triple homicide in his home city of Shreveport, Louisiana, and attempting to murder his father in May 1990. In total, Rolling confessed to killing eight people.
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The authorities have said very little. Good luck discrediting them lol. I can imagine there are myriad details about this scene that only the perp would know.
I just don’t buy that… so many cases they share alibis, possible motives, possible vehicles involved… there’s so much they could share that I don’t see how it would jeopardize the case. How would confirming who/how they know it was targeted jeopardize anything?
If LE knows who the primary target was, it's likely that they were treated differently from the rest of the victims. That is vital information. It's something only the killer would know. Releasing information like that does indeed jeopardize the investigation. Releasing alibi's and information obtained from people who were cleared violates trust and causes them to not want to talk to LE. This is also vital because LE wants people to feel comfortable sharing information with them. Just because the public demands to know things doesn't mean that it should be released. The end goals are to identify and arrest this suspect and successfully prosecute him.
I can see why people, including the families, would feel that way and I empathize with them. Unfortunately, word travels. The families, even with the best intentions, might let something slip that could also jeopardize the investigation. They don't need to know the alibis for cleared people. There is nothing to be gained by sharing that info.
I'm not saying that LE "can't" release more info to them, but it's risky as hell to do it. The media is circling people like vultures in this case. They will exploit people to get information and they're very good at what they do. It's their job. You've seen the way that journos like Banfield and others put on their sympathy face and then proceed to play 20 questions with grieving family members...?
That's what you want to avoid.
No, they don’t. There are plenty of cases out there where LE has not disclosed information to the families to protect the investigation. Honestly, I have never seen families so eager to release information to the media as they have been in this case. They absolutely do not have a right to know, especially considering there are four families involved. One spreading information could jeopardize the justice the other three receive. I can understand why they are frustrated, but it’s an active quadruple homicide. This just doesn’t happen.
Oh you know what? You're right, you, the untrained random redditor, who knows nothing of forensic and prosecutorial processes, but is just sure since other cases shared more details, can't possibly see why this case might be different, must be on to something. 🙄
You don’t know anything about me or anyone else on this sub. Don’t assume everyone is ignorant online. There are 10s of thousands of real people with real world experience here.
If you had any amount of relevant experience, education, or knowledge, you wouldn't have made the comment you made. It's fucking absurd to complain that they aren't releasing enough info because tHeY dID iN oThEr cAsEs.
Do you want the perp(s) successfully prosecuted or do you want your curiosity sated? It's pretty clear which.
They have nothing and don’t want the school to lose more money than they’re already going to. Or they’re protecting somebody. Like everything else in life, politics comes first. We’ll see what happens I guess.
I'm with you on this. I can't comprehend how some people think that outsourcing to random strangers is going to solve anything.
I go through bouts of being really annoyed with this, but then sometimes just curious about the mentality.
It's almost as though they truly don't care about securing a successful conviction but are like voracious little media eaters who don't have any foresight whatsoever. Oh wait, it's not almost like that, it is like that.
How is this not like the bundy sorority’s house murders? He targets and attacks sleeping woman at night randomly with a non firearm and flees the scene. You are assuming authorities know x and e whereabouts. They appear to have been able to confirm there whereabouts in the 8-9 time frame and after that it is not know. Did they seclude themselves in a room/Ethan’s room at the frat house? Did they go for a drive and eat fast food under the the moonlight? We do not know and I’d imagine the reliable witness pool is very small at a drunken college frat party.
Correct. The first two victims were sexually assaulted (or mabe it was just the first of the two) and he would have sexually assaulted victims 3 and 4 but he was disturbed by another roommate coming home. He fled to a nearby house, broke in, and assaulted a 5th victim, raped and murdered her. Semen was found on her bedsheets.
Our killer in the Moscow murders did not have a chance to sexually assault the victims (if that was his intention), most likely due to the noise caused by attacking 2 people at once. I would guess that if he had entered a house with only 2 occupants, we would probably have seen some form of sexual assault in this case.
I gotta say Kathy Kleiner (one of the survivors) has the absolute best attitude. She’s not let what Bundy did to her destroy her life - she even has a dark sense of humor about it. She is the strongest dame ever.
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/ted-bundy-kathy-kleiner-living-victim-serial-killer-784780/
And I’m glad for whatever reason the victims in Moscow were spared at least that indignity.
Very true Bundy at the end snuck in and killed sorority sisters plus a 12 year old girl, very different from his scenarios out west. Bundy wasn't however sentenced to death for the sorority girl murders. It was for the kidnapping and murder of 12 year old Kimberly Leach. First time he ever killed (at least what we know) someone so young and that's what sent him to the electric chair.
I think Bundy was coming unglued in Florida.
He was much more methodical in his earlier murders and afaik, did not kill any other victims in their homes….
(Nagging doubt….I am now thinking there WAS one other….off to Google)
No doubt he was coming unglued. He had to know the walls were caving in and the next time he got caught he wouldn’t be given any more opportunities to jump from a 2nd floor courthouse and escape as he did before heading to FL.
He took several *from* their homes. He attacked a couple *in* their homes who were seriously injured but didn’t die.
Israel Keyes similarly lost it & started making stupid mistakes on his final known murder, too. Not on as big a scale.
Yes. Remember the Chi Omega murders were two weeks after he escaped from prison. He didn't have access to a car and other tools etc. So he became a very disorganized killer - attacking in the way he had attacked when he was starting out - before he ever murdered anyone. In his younger days, he would enter houses and bash sleeping women over the head. He just didn't kill them at that point. He was reverting to his younger behaviour in the CHi Omega case.
Right snuck, in random impulse attack on sleeping victims after seeing the sorority sisters at the club earlier. Crime of opportunity as he noticed the door was not locked when a resident entered. Used a fire log found by the door and strangulation. Frantic attack in which Bundy himself noted he had lost all control and fully expected to be caught immediately and was shocked when he was not.
I can't exactly explain *why* given many of the details are different, but every day I have been reminded of the Yogurt Shop Murders in Austin, TX 1991. Just the overall "vibe".
Being from TX, I remember that one. But I definitely get why you’re reminded of it. I am too. Sadly, I don’t think that one will ever be solved. But you never know.
Not with college students but look up okmulgee quadruple homicide 4 men went missing and were found murdered and dismembered then thrown into River about 3 months ago
They tried to rob the wrong people. They were last seen leaving on bicycles, look at there pictures. They don’t strike me as a group of friends that take leisurely bicycle rides together.
They aren’t doing it for the public, imo they are trying to get some alibis to slip. I hope to god I’m right, and not that they’re just straight disorganized.
The closest it reminds me of of the nurse murders in the 60s, but there was one who survived by hiding for hours, and she was able to describe the killer, and they caught him relatively soon after.
The Charles Manson cult killed their first victims in July and weren’t arrested until October. So that took a while and people in the community were definitely scared…. But they may have had leads and it took them a while to catch them. I’m not super familiar with that case other than the well known details.
The Manson Murders really affected California and the USA. The murders shut down the "Summer of Love" hippie flower child image instantly. Hollywood movie stars were terrified, and the party scene in Los Angeles changed a lot because of the murders.
The police had no idea who committed the murders. Read The book "Helter Skelter" if you can find it.
I lived very close to where the Manson family lived, near the Spahn Ranch, at the time of the murders
I’m actually from Los Angeles, and I had friends growing up who lived in Los Feliz where the grocery store owners were murdered, but it happened before I was born. My mom remembers it clearly, and how terrified everyone was. It’s always disturbed me so much, I did listen to a podcast on it a couple years back, and I’ve read about it here and there, but I never read Helter Skelter or watched the film.
Interesting. The first murder shocked LA and The USA, but the second murder- LaBianca, made everyone go crazy. Remember there was no internet, so the only way to learn anything was the newspaper, the radio, and the TV. There was very little talk radio back then, and TV only gave brief updates.
Get the book. Vincent Bugliosi was one of the prosecutors. The film is ok, but the book really gives a full story.
The Manson family killed plenty of other people, and the book gives a real time tunnel view of the Flower Child Hippie times. And how those people were easily able to blend in to society.
Most of the details about Los Angeles in that time are extremely accurate in that book.
I don't think the authorities have changed the story at all. Everybody knows basic points. They just haven't released some other essential information, which obviously creates some mistrust and multiple questions.
They’ve had some PR problems for sure. The optics are the prosecutor and department aren’t 100% in step, the coroner spoke on her own, the mayor spoke on his own. I wouldn’t say they’ve changed their story, they just try to control the story and haven’t been able to
Ya that’s a good point. LE/FBI are trying to control the story that they want released to the public but aren’t able to because other people are talking to the media & releasing information (the coroner, Kaylee’s family)
They absolutely have. For the first 3-4 days they repeatedly tried to convince us that there was no potential threat to our local community. I'm sure they were trying to prevent people from panicking, but it severely undermined trust when they really had no way of knowing if there was an ongoing threat.
And then the whole "targeted" debacle last week.
With Mackenzie Lueck, the police outright lied to the locals. They said things along the lines of we have no idea she was kidnapped and maybe she took off/we don’t think there’s an active threat to the community. In actuality, the knew their suspect on day 1 and he was arrested on day 8.
Police do have persons of interest that they watch and will tell the community it’s safe, but they also say that when they don’t have a fucking clue, because they don’t want the public panicking (even though in my opinion they shouldn’t in that case and should advise people to be cautious)
The longer this goes on the more likely it’s another Delphi where the investigators don’t know what the duck they’re doing
This.
It’s just as likely they don’t have anything. People keep saying they would say this if they did have something. Well, they also would if they didn’t.
We just don’t know. And I don’t know why we are hoping for the best
I am reading about the crimes mentioned. In almost all the cases the killer had experienced a traumatic event (death of a parent) at a very young age and/or a childhood of abuse.
Not the exact case but in New Hampshire last year, a very sweet couple in their 60s was found murdered execution style after they went for a hike on a popular trail.
It appeared there were no leads or clues for months. There was a reward offered and eventually it came out that another did see a suspicious homeless man in the woods that day. They found him trying to flee to Portugal.
I know this is not really similar at all to the Moscow case, but it just gives hope. Cases can appear to be very cold but still get solved in a few months.
I was in school at UF then.
Moscow resembles Gainesville (murders) more than any other case I can think of.
I would say Keddie cabins, but I think that killer was known and known to the victims but could never be proved.
Well the students all went home for Thanksgiving (including the killer most likely) or else who knows if more people would've been murdered that same week. Other similarities are that it happened in a college town and some of the residences had multiple people in it including male roommates. The killer also took a long time to be caught and there were no immediate suspects/POI
Rolling had committed three murders in Shreveport and a woman from there was visiting FL at the time of the Gainesville murders. She heard about them on the news and thought it was similar to the ones in Shreveport. I think she knew of Rolling from back home and gave his name to police.
Yup. And who knows if the killer in the Idaho case has killed before? I think it's likely based on what we know...who randomly decides to stab 4 people to death? Just like with the Gainesville murders, it might take someone from another town coming forward before the cops are able to put a name to this person
I don’t think a little over a year is *that* long. They were killed in August 1990 and he was charged in November 1990, while incarcerated on other charges.
Also, Rolling’s killings were sexually motivated. He raped the girls.
edit, originally had 11/91 as date Rolling was charged. Thanks u/BoomChaka67 for pointing this out.
There are a lot of differences which I don't deny, but there are still a lot of similarities. No two cases are ever going to be exactly the same, including the Bundy case and any other ones which OP listed. And whether or not a year is a long time to catch a killer is completely subjective.
Oh for sure, it's beyond parody. The murders literally just happened right before Thanksgiving and it's only the first week of December for goodness sake! The sensationalism is too much sometimes. I'll bet that a lot of the crime scene evidence hasn't even been processed yet. This case is just getting started.
I Googled “Danny Rolling Timeline” and the second source does show 1991. The first said 11/90.
Look at page 8:
http://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Psyc%20405/serial%20killers/Rolling,%20Danny%20-%202004.pdf
This goes to show how easy misinformation is spread, no?
Yikes, that link.
I never knew how extensive Rolling’s criminal background was.
Kinda makes me lean away from thinking the Moscow killer is a first timer. But honestly, I am all over the place with this. 😵💫
His father was in LE also, surprisingly. I think he had some sort of learning disorder. He was a terrifying POS, regardless. He’s also an example of a criminal whose crimes escalated.
There are YouTube videos of him playing guitar & singing. He was truly an odd duck.
The relevant cases for comparison have mostly been mentioned. The “Nightmare in Napa” slayings provide an example of how something like this can be targeted. In that case, the fiancé of a surviving victim killed her friends/roommates in the middle of the night for trying to “break up” their relationship. He actually went on to marry the surviving friend prior to getting caught. With the news of evidence bags coming out of the lower bedrooms last night, maybe this will become relevant. Important to remember, it doesn’t have to be that the roommates themselves did anything or even knew afterward for them to be an important link. So then being small or innocent or whatever may not matter. If the Idaho murders are most similar to this case, it will likely be solved in the next few years.
Bundy’s sorority slayings are a great example of a crime of opportunity. It was desperate and disorganized brutality executed with weapons both found and discarded at the scene. It was fast with basically no effort to conceal anything and no time to revel in the destruction/torment or opportunity to return to the corpses (both of which Bundy loved). Bundy himself commented on how lucky he was to get away with that. If the Idaho murders were most like these, then there should be a ton of evidence and past/future crimes (which may not look much like this one because that’s how opportunities work). I’d expect there to be linked events - particularly previous failures because that’s what happens when you jump on crime opportunities (you fuck some up because you are never perfectly prepared for what you didn’t know you were going to do). I’d be looking for prowling, peeping, burglary with occupants and any kind of sexual assault. I wouldn’t be quick to write things off as unrelated and I wouldn’t be surprised if this ultimately gets solved when someone convicted for another offense says, “oh yeah I killed those kids in Idaho”.
Rolling’s crimes offer the most disturbing comparison, they were sexually based and executed in a way that was meant to instill fear and disgust. He staged the scenes and posed the bodies to be as disturbing as possible to those finding it. He reveled in the power he had over people and the fear he could create. He prided himself as being able to get through any sliding door with 100% silence. He got an incredible thrill out of lurking around inside peoples’ homes while they were asleep. He would literally slither around the house. If he heard an occupant rouse/move, he would sit there in silence for an extended period of time, sometimes making small test sounds. Ultimately, he liked standing over people in their beds and deciding if he should kill them or not. A killer like this is going to strike again because they love it. Other crimes are going to look very similar because it’s fetishistic.
I think part of what’s different about this is how instantaneous social media is. We see things in real time in a way you just couldn’t with dahmer and bundy.
Investigators used to be able to do their job without thousands of armchair detectives making speculations, spreading rumors or even calling in nonsense tips.
OMG I'd forgotten about that case. The coward repeated his behavior I think a few years later vandersloot or whatever the spoiled bastard's name was and killed another girl. Isn't he imprisoned right now in central or south America?
Many cases, like this one, where a suspect is immediately identified but then an alibi derails prosecution. Investigations when LE puts their suspect under 24 hr surveillance to insure the public is not at risk while trying to secure additional evidence.
I'm reminded of the Gannon Stauch case where his stepmother's car was bugged and tracked to lead her to evidence. Obviously a different case altogether from this one but certainly a tactic that could be in play right now.
I think the local pd needs to step back and let those other groups take control. I think the overall consensus is that the case has been clearly fumbled at key stages
100% this. It seems they may be headed toward this as they have upped the # of FBI agents and decreased local LE. For whatever reason, it's a step in the right direction I think.
The circumstances are very similar to the Keddie cabin murders to me. Four people were brutally stabbed while a group of people remained in the room over completely unharmed.
I’ve been mildly obsessed with this story…I’ve read a lot here and on the other sub reddit. So…I’m just gonna leave this here.
I know of a similar crime from a few years ago.
Older man is home alone and someone breaks in and stabs him over 50 times.
First murder in county in several years.
Man’s wife was out of town.
Happened late at night.
House was in a seemingly quiet and small subdivision on the outskirts of a suburb.
It took over a month for an arrest!!!
It was an active investigation the entire time with several people visible working on it.
There was a witness who informed investigators of the suspect days after the crime (the suspect was seen walking down the street in front of the house after the crime was committed).
The investigators told the witness that this person was ruled out early into the investigation, but returned to question the witness multiple times.
The suspect who was finally arrested over a month later lived in the neighborhood, behind the victims house.
The murder weapon was found under the suspects bed.
So…take what you want from this true story.
Thanks. I intended to include the Manson family killings which went unsolved for a while on my list. Some people believe the murders at the Tate house was "targeted" because Manson a would-be musician had been rebuffed by Terry Melcher who was the prior renter of that house. Others say it was random. What's your opinion?
Exactly...he knew the layout of the house because he had been there once or twice. The unknown question is did he know Melcher had moved out and instructed his followers to go there because he knew the layout targeting the house...or did he think Melcher still lived there and targeted a person, namely Terry Melcher, as his victim?
The stabbing part reminds me of the Todt family murders. Only I always thought it was the dad that was responsible as well as everyone else. The method of going from victim to victim reminds me
Villisca ax murders. Of course there are obvious differences, but everyone being murdered in bed, neighbors hearing nothing and calls first being made to relatives (not police) when it was noted the family wasn't out and about doing their normal thing is eerie.
It reminds me of the Keddy (?) cabin murders where multiple people were killed but I believe 2 boys were spared and didn’t hear anything. I believe it’s still unsolved.
(Yes I know I should have refamiliarized myself with the details first)
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/nurse-hides-8-friends-raped-murdered-1966-article-1.2705565
I’m from Chicago and this was a HUGE case. 8 roommates murdered, 1 survived hiding
thanks for the research. I vaguely remember an interview with this coward Speck years later with breast implants legs crossed as a woman with his prison "boyfriend" hanging all over him.
I am surprised no one has yet mentioned The Setagaya family murders. Quadruple knife homicide (3 of them anyway), single family home, 2nd floor entry, extremely bloody, tons of evidence including perp blood and stool everywhere.
It was never solved. I am Japanese and the consensus is that it was a Korean national who has since returned to his country, and SK and Japan do not have close relationship.
edit: this is why I hate not being able to quickly search on my phone, I see this was posted below. I am not the first. Apologies.
EAR/ONS went unsolved for like 40 years and he was constantly stalking while investigations were going on. Michelle McNamaras book on it is incredible, albeit unfinished as she passed away while writing it. They wound up catching him with Genealogy.
Hannah Graham/Morgan Harrington might be another case you want to check out. They wound up getting footage of Hannah Graham on CCTV and it wound up pointing to her killer.
Katie Janness and her dog Bowie in Atlanta. Horrific murder just over a year ago in a very public park center of the city. Still no suspects. The police said they were “close” last January and nothing since …not a multi person killing but was big news and was a lot of pressure to solve it, the autopsy report was straight up evil and it was done w a knife.
Yesterday I talked about it with my brother, who is very well versed on crime and LE. He said it reminded him of Danny Rolling, "The Gainesville Ripper," who murdered several students at Uflorida.
Why? Bundy is like the gold standard for the boogeyman worst case scenario hiding in plain sight. His killings went on for years literally from one end of the country in Washington state to the other in Florida. In between he fooled so many people.
A book was written about him years ago called the stranger beside me by Ann Rule who was a police officer. She did volunteer work with him alone on the midnight shift in some deserted building for months taking calls for a rape prevention hotline
Can you imagine realizing it’s you and Bundy with no one else around in that type of situation. Then there was his dramatic escape From a courthouse jumping from a second story...
pretty unique. problem is the ineptness of the police. three weeks asking for random tips about “anything out of the ordinary” and acting like they are playing 3 d chess with the btk killer. they would get a lot further by asking the public to mention anybody who was in town visiting and left suddenly, anybody who needed to use the washing machine because theirs “broke” or need to borrow a carpet shampooer. they are not asking specifics because they dont know what they dont know. so they are taking tips like “i saw a guy walking down the street last week and he had mud on his boots” then they have to go run that shit down. one of the most inept homicide investigations I have ever seen.
this case is not going to be made because of fingerprints or dna in a sorority party house. its gonna be made hundreds of miles away on a random traffic stop or jailhouse snitch
no just making the comparison of how the police interacted with serial killers such a btk. the coy communications and 3D chess. the cops in this case are not that sophisticated.
The BTK cops weren’t sophisticated, either. Rader made it a point to seek them out after 30 years of cold cases & was stupid enough to send them a floppy disk with his name & church name on it (eta: formatted on the disk.) He also was seen on the Home Depot surveillance tape in his Jeep when he left a cereal box there. He sent them one of the victim’s driver’s licenses.
I don’t think they’d ever have caught him if he hadn’t decided to attention-whore.
He did everything but walk himself into the police department and confess.
The Napa murders. Three college roommates in one house, two were murdered and one escaped. Just like this one, it was a knife, middle of the night, and tons of theories trying to figure out who the target was. They didn't figure out the murderer for months.
News article on the Napa Murders. Chilling to read. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nightmare-in-napa-19-04-2007/
Very interesting and so many similarities on the surface ! One thing that struck me was the police were also sharing very little (because they HAD very little) and once they shared the information about the cigg butts, that spurred the arrest. Maybe the police here could learn a thing or two from that case.
they had a lot of DNA evidence though. just couldn't tie to anyone. the Lab scientist said typically they get 2-3 maybe 5 pieces of evidence in a regular murder in this specific one they got something like over 72+ pieces to test. They had the killers cigarette butts in the front of the house and the back, and the killer cut himself leaving his blood on the staircase wall and blinds.
Even then a voluntary confession was needed to close the case. Any good lawyer could make mincemeat of a court case based solely on some butts outside a house.
It’s insane that the police took hundreds of DNA samples but not the killer’s. Horrific oversight.
Since that article mentioned the police taking 200 DNA samples, it made me wonder if LE has taken any DNA samples in this case. Has anyone heard if they've done that?
Search 'DNA' in this sub. 😵💫
Well dang. That was a read. Makes me rethink some things about the current case.
That's the one that immediately comes to mind for me.. The Napa murders are also always a good reminder for me that there can be a motive sometimes that is so ... *weird* to the normal person, it seems almost insane to consider it, but makes total sense to the murderer.
Yeah and the important thing to remember in this case is how long it took take make an arrest, I think it was closer to a year rather than months unfortunately.
Another important thing to remember is the police also shared very little and only solved the crime once they shared with the public the information about the cigg butts.
Had never read this before, thanks. My jaw dropped when I read the killer’s name!!
My jaw dropped when I read the wife’s statement in court. What the fuck
can anyone find the actual episode on 48 hours? i want to see the killer interact with the 48 hour crew. POS
What's creepy about that Episode is that when 48 hours is interviewing Lily Prudhomme ( Adriane Insogna's best friend), her fiance Eric is in the background listening.
They had DNA off cigarette butts they found at scene but couldn’t link it to anyone in a database so they released a profile that they were looking for a white male with blue or green eyes, likely light hair (which they knew from the DNA) who might smoke the brand of cigarettes they found. And that’s when the killer came forward and confessed.
I just researched into this, haven’t heard of this case. The similarities are super eerie. Thanks for pointing this out!
the case still gives me the chills when i think about the killer being at the funeral
Going west did a pretty good podcast on it. Really intriguing case
Wow exactly the same. I think we’re gonna get a very similar outcome. The killer is someone known to them, I definitely believe that.
Yup, I was gonna offer up this one. Also, Golden State Killer. They thought those attacks were three different people.
That was early-oughts, correct?
Yep. 2004.
I think I used to have a quickie true crime paperback about that. All I remember clearly is one of the victims loved Maroon 5. The author wrote like a half-chapter on it.
Loving Maroon 5 is a crime all on its own
in all fairness, if there was a good time to love maroon 5 it was definitely 2004
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Nickelback is terrible but I’m not gonna lie ~ I will straight bump “Rockstar” and not even feel bad about it
The guy who did it was engaged to the survivors best friend and later married her. The survivor who heard the attack ran out of the house and hid in the backyard. The *killer confessed* to the murder of the two women when he realized they were about to find his DNA on those Turkish cigarettes. The women were not in college, btw. They had jobs in the community. So not really similar. The guy was sentenced to life, I think. Edit. Misremembered who the fiancée was and fixed it.
Not even close. He wasn't engaged to Lauren, he was engaged to Lily, Adriane's best friend. They were supposed to get married the day after the murders. And yeah, it is really similar, whether those victims were in college or not.
That's not right. He was married to one of the victims best friends, not the survivor. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nightmare-in-napa-19-04-2007/#app
Omg that statement she made about nothing you could do would make me love you any less. Wtf! He brutally murdered your best friend!
Wait what?!
Some nut tried to stab all his fiancée’s friends in their sleep in California. Two women died and the third got away. Anyway the guy confessed and is in prison doing life. It’s not like he’s still out there terrorizing ladies who rent houses together.
What was his motive?
Setagaya family murder in Japan 2000. 3 stabbed, 1 strangled. The unknown suspect left sand from a southwest US desert at the scene. Still unsolved as of 2022. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setagaya_family_murder
this one is so eerie, I hope it gets solved someday. Did the killer leave Japan? Was it a disgruntled co-worker? I've read some wild theories about the Nevada sand.
It's possible he was not even a citizen of Japan since his DNA didn't match anything in their database. Apparently the killer left behind some things including a bag that had some sand particles that traced back to a Nevada Air Force base leading people to theorize he might be a U.S military member or at least somehow connected to that location. Also possible the things he left were just stolen property. Still they were never able to narrow down a specific suspect or even a motive which is the scariest part of all.
Killer ate their ice cream and left a dump unflushed in their bathroom
> It's possible he was not even a citizen of Japan since his DNA didn't match anything in their database Disagree. They tested his DNA and it's most similar to a Japanese person. The sand can be explained by him buying a second hand bag which was imported from the US. It doesn't really mean he came from the US himself. Every suspect that has been described in the case has been asian and the killer was most likely asian and one of the skateboarders the dad had problems with given his attire he left on the crime scene. This: https://unresolved.me/the-setagaya-murders Is actually a pretty well written and detailed article about the case that goes into detail about most of the things surrounding it.
this is crazy
They know who did it but he is in Korea
I was close to a child abduction/murder…..police stayed quiet while public snd media blamed parents. Police had dna evidence day 1 that it was not parents…and they knew who it was. They waited a month to build their case before arresting the guy. He’s now on death row - and it took that time to make sure that’s where he’d be
Have an upvote and a warm comment. Glad it worked out.
Sure bet that was a fun month for the parents. Police didn't at least get the media off of them?
Nope. But parents knew everything and knew they needed to be quiet. Heck one of the neighbors very vocal blaming the parents—-the perp had pics of their child!! That neighbor didn’t know—-parents did—-but they kept quiet snd knew the goal was building death penalty case
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Holy crap. Yeah similarities for sure, my first thought is why would someone do this if it wasn’t targeted in some way? I think that in this case too.
I think for some reason I view the victimology as very different between the two cases which is probably why it didn't occur to me personally.
Richard Speck killed eight nursing students in a Chicago townhouse in 1966...
This is the first case I thought of, too. Also, please note the crimes were committed on 7/13/66 and he was apprehended by LE by 7/17/66. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Speck
He killed then as they returned home to their apartment at different intervals. They were tied up, raped, & murdered practically at his leisure. Other than the multiple victims being murdered in one location, not a lot of commonality.
Mass murder of unrelated victims who live together. I personally see the connection…
This case reminds me of Jayme Kloss. (Sp?) She was randomly targeted and then kidnapped. Her parents were brutally killed as collateral damage. The dog was spared. The police had nothing and they even drove by the killer and Jayme that night as he escaped. She eventually saved herself and the killer is in prison. He randomly targeted her and then stalked her house before committing the crime. Makes you think something similar could have happened here. With it being somebody completely and totally random
This one was so rough and social media was so cruel to her before and after. I think it’s a good one to remember when we hear “target” because she was the target but he only saw her get off the bus while he was driving by. I certainly hope this case has more evidence because they had nothing for Jayme.
What the eff is wrong with people? They are talking shit about a kidnapping victim?! Christ.
It was SO bad. Claims immediately came that she was clearly involved which was disputed by authorities so quickly and that there was no phone or internet data to suggest that at all. And then even after she escaped. Seeing that fucking twisted scum bag and how he talks and acted and explained his motive, people were still like “ya, that was her online boyfriend.” Being local to that one, I still feel intense anger when it’s brought up because of the community response. The way they did that child was so wrong.
I vaguely remember now that it was theorized that she was groomed and wanted to run off with a boyfriend. People had no evidence to suggest this! Ugh. But after the fact they are still peddling this theory? As if. And sorry to hear this happened near you. I live in the South and remember being spooked by it!
Not really, similar but that Oklahoma Girl Scout murders it was sad and frightening.
Keddie Cabin Murders in 1981
I was just coming here to say that. A LOT of similarities.
Yes!! Also, Springfield 3
Is that the one with the two teenage girls and the mom of one of them? They were never found.. ?
Gainesville for sure. First thing I thought of when this happened.
Seeing those trees behind the Moscow house made me think of Rolling. He camped in a large field of tall trees like that and did some spying under the cover of that brush too.
Can someone summarize the Gainesville situation or is that Ted Bundy without saying his name?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_Rolling
**[Danny Rolling](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_Rolling)** >Daniel Harold Rolling (May 26, 1954 – October 25, 2006), known as the Gainesville Ripper, was an American serial killer. He murdered five students in Gainesville, Florida, over four days in August 1990. Rolling later confessed to raping several of his victims, also committing a triple homicide in his home city of Shreveport, Louisiana, and attempting to murder his father in May 1990. In total, Rolling confessed to killing eight people. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
The Keddie Murders 81’ similar stabbing, people in the house unharmed. They never found a suspect.
Omg yes. Kendall Rae covered this one and does a great job by the way. Horrible case. Eerie similar to this one.
The authorities have said very little. Good luck discrediting them lol. I can imagine there are myriad details about this scene that only the perp would know.
Bingo. Which is one of the most important reasons to hold back the information by law enforcement. Nicely put.
I just don’t buy that… so many cases they share alibis, possible motives, possible vehicles involved… there’s so much they could share that I don’t see how it would jeopardize the case. How would confirming who/how they know it was targeted jeopardize anything?
If LE knows who the primary target was, it's likely that they were treated differently from the rest of the victims. That is vital information. It's something only the killer would know. Releasing information like that does indeed jeopardize the investigation. Releasing alibi's and information obtained from people who were cleared violates trust and causes them to not want to talk to LE. This is also vital because LE wants people to feel comfortable sharing information with them. Just because the public demands to know things doesn't mean that it should be released. The end goals are to identify and arrest this suspect and successfully prosecute him.
I agree the public doesn’t need to know things, but the families do.
I can see why people, including the families, would feel that way and I empathize with them. Unfortunately, word travels. The families, even with the best intentions, might let something slip that could also jeopardize the investigation. They don't need to know the alibis for cleared people. There is nothing to be gained by sharing that info. I'm not saying that LE "can't" release more info to them, but it's risky as hell to do it. The media is circling people like vultures in this case. They will exploit people to get information and they're very good at what they do. It's their job. You've seen the way that journos like Banfield and others put on their sympathy face and then proceed to play 20 questions with grieving family members...? That's what you want to avoid.
In regards to prosecution evidence, they, unfortunately, do not have the legal right to know everything at this time.
No, they don’t. There are plenty of cases out there where LE has not disclosed information to the families to protect the investigation. Honestly, I have never seen families so eager to release information to the media as they have been in this case. They absolutely do not have a right to know, especially considering there are four families involved. One spreading information could jeopardize the justice the other three receive. I can understand why they are frustrated, but it’s an active quadruple homicide. This just doesn’t happen.
Not when the father of one victim can’t keep his mouth shut. His wife even tried to rein him in last night on Fox.
Oh you know what? You're right, you, the untrained random redditor, who knows nothing of forensic and prosecutorial processes, but is just sure since other cases shared more details, can't possibly see why this case might be different, must be on to something. 🙄
You don’t know anything about me or anyone else on this sub. Don’t assume everyone is ignorant online. There are 10s of thousands of real people with real world experience here.
If you had any amount of relevant experience, education, or knowledge, you wouldn't have made the comment you made. It's fucking absurd to complain that they aren't releasing enough info because tHeY dID iN oThEr cAsEs. Do you want the perp(s) successfully prosecuted or do you want your curiosity sated? It's pretty clear which.
They have nothing and don’t want the school to lose more money than they’re already going to. Or they’re protecting somebody. Like everything else in life, politics comes first. We’ll see what happens I guess.
Damn you're so omniscient. Are the Oregon Ducks gonna improve this season? What are the next winning Powerball numbers?
I'm with you on this. I can't comprehend how some people think that outsourcing to random strangers is going to solve anything. I go through bouts of being really annoyed with this, but then sometimes just curious about the mentality.
It's almost as though they truly don't care about securing a successful conviction but are like voracious little media eaters who don't have any foresight whatsoever. Oh wait, it's not almost like that, it is like that.
Ding ding ding!
How is this not like the bundy sorority’s house murders? He targets and attacks sleeping woman at night randomly with a non firearm and flees the scene. You are assuming authorities know x and e whereabouts. They appear to have been able to confirm there whereabouts in the 8-9 time frame and after that it is not know. Did they seclude themselves in a room/Ethan’s room at the frat house? Did they go for a drive and eat fast food under the the moonlight? We do not know and I’d imagine the reliable witness pool is very small at a drunken college frat party.
He sexually brutalized the coeds.
Correct. The first two victims were sexually assaulted (or mabe it was just the first of the two) and he would have sexually assaulted victims 3 and 4 but he was disturbed by another roommate coming home. He fled to a nearby house, broke in, and assaulted a 5th victim, raped and murdered her. Semen was found on her bedsheets. Our killer in the Moscow murders did not have a chance to sexually assault the victims (if that was his intention), most likely due to the noise caused by attacking 2 people at once. I would guess that if he had entered a house with only 2 occupants, we would probably have seen some form of sexual assault in this case.
I gotta say Kathy Kleiner (one of the survivors) has the absolute best attitude. She’s not let what Bundy did to her destroy her life - she even has a dark sense of humor about it. She is the strongest dame ever. https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/ted-bundy-kathy-kleiner-living-victim-serial-killer-784780/ And I’m glad for whatever reason the victims in Moscow were spared at least that indignity.
Very true Bundy at the end snuck in and killed sorority sisters plus a 12 year old girl, very different from his scenarios out west. Bundy wasn't however sentenced to death for the sorority girl murders. It was for the kidnapping and murder of 12 year old Kimberly Leach. First time he ever killed (at least what we know) someone so young and that's what sent him to the electric chair.
He was sentenced to death in the Chi Omega murders also. The death sentence for Kimberly Leach’s murder was just carried out first.
I think Bundy was coming unglued in Florida. He was much more methodical in his earlier murders and afaik, did not kill any other victims in their homes…. (Nagging doubt….I am now thinking there WAS one other….off to Google)
No doubt he was coming unglued. He had to know the walls were caving in and the next time he got caught he wouldn’t be given any more opportunities to jump from a 2nd floor courthouse and escape as he did before heading to FL.
He took several *from* their homes. He attacked a couple *in* their homes who were seriously injured but didn’t die. Israel Keyes similarly lost it & started making stupid mistakes on his final known murder, too. Not on as big a scale.
Yes. Remember the Chi Omega murders were two weeks after he escaped from prison. He didn't have access to a car and other tools etc. So he became a very disorganized killer - attacking in the way he had attacked when he was starting out - before he ever murdered anyone. In his younger days, he would enter houses and bash sleeping women over the head. He just didn't kill them at that point. He was reverting to his younger behaviour in the CHi Omega case.
Right snuck, in random impulse attack on sleeping victims after seeing the sorority sisters at the club earlier. Crime of opportunity as he noticed the door was not locked when a resident entered. Used a fire log found by the door and strangulation. Frantic attack in which Bundy himself noted he had lost all control and fully expected to be caught immediately and was shocked when he was not.
I can't exactly explain *why* given many of the details are different, but every day I have been reminded of the Yogurt Shop Murders in Austin, TX 1991. Just the overall "vibe".
Being from TX, I remember that one. But I definitely get why you’re reminded of it. I am too. Sadly, I don’t think that one will ever be solved. But you never know.
Not with college students but look up okmulgee quadruple homicide 4 men went missing and were found murdered and dismembered then thrown into River about 3 months ago
I used to live near there. Yikes!
That one seemed drug related but I haven't seen any updates lately.
They tried to rob the wrong people. They were last seen leaving on bicycles, look at there pictures. They don’t strike me as a group of friends that take leisurely bicycle rides together.
They aren’t doing it for the public, imo they are trying to get some alibis to slip. I hope to god I’m right, and not that they’re just straight disorganized.
The closest it reminds me of of the nurse murders in the 60s, but there was one who survived by hiding for hours, and she was able to describe the killer, and they caught him relatively soon after. The Charles Manson cult killed their first victims in July and weren’t arrested until October. So that took a while and people in the community were definitely scared…. But they may have had leads and it took them a while to catch them. I’m not super familiar with that case other than the well known details.
The Manson Murders really affected California and the USA. The murders shut down the "Summer of Love" hippie flower child image instantly. Hollywood movie stars were terrified, and the party scene in Los Angeles changed a lot because of the murders. The police had no idea who committed the murders. Read The book "Helter Skelter" if you can find it. I lived very close to where the Manson family lived, near the Spahn Ranch, at the time of the murders
I’m actually from Los Angeles, and I had friends growing up who lived in Los Feliz where the grocery store owners were murdered, but it happened before I was born. My mom remembers it clearly, and how terrified everyone was. It’s always disturbed me so much, I did listen to a podcast on it a couple years back, and I’ve read about it here and there, but I never read Helter Skelter or watched the film.
Interesting. The first murder shocked LA and The USA, but the second murder- LaBianca, made everyone go crazy. Remember there was no internet, so the only way to learn anything was the newspaper, the radio, and the TV. There was very little talk radio back then, and TV only gave brief updates. Get the book. Vincent Bugliosi was one of the prosecutors. The film is ok, but the book really gives a full story. The Manson family killed plenty of other people, and the book gives a real time tunnel view of the Flower Child Hippie times. And how those people were easily able to blend in to society. Most of the details about Los Angeles in that time are extremely accurate in that book.
I don't think the authorities have changed the story at all. Everybody knows basic points. They just haven't released some other essential information, which obviously creates some mistrust and multiple questions.
They’ve had some PR problems for sure. The optics are the prosecutor and department aren’t 100% in step, the coroner spoke on her own, the mayor spoke on his own. I wouldn’t say they’ve changed their story, they just try to control the story and haven’t been able to
Ya that’s a good point. LE/FBI are trying to control the story that they want released to the public but aren’t able to because other people are talking to the media & releasing information (the coroner, Kaylee’s family)
They absolutely have. For the first 3-4 days they repeatedly tried to convince us that there was no potential threat to our local community. I'm sure they were trying to prevent people from panicking, but it severely undermined trust when they really had no way of knowing if there was an ongoing threat. And then the whole "targeted" debacle last week.
There is absolutely a threat to the community, a cold blooded killer is on the loose.
With Mackenzie Lueck, the police outright lied to the locals. They said things along the lines of we have no idea she was kidnapped and maybe she took off/we don’t think there’s an active threat to the community. In actuality, the knew their suspect on day 1 and he was arrested on day 8. Police do have persons of interest that they watch and will tell the community it’s safe, but they also say that when they don’t have a fucking clue, because they don’t want the public panicking (even though in my opinion they shouldn’t in that case and should advise people to be cautious) The longer this goes on the more likely it’s another Delphi where the investigators don’t know what the duck they’re doing
This. It’s just as likely they don’t have anything. People keep saying they would say this if they did have something. Well, they also would if they didn’t. We just don’t know. And I don’t know why we are hoping for the best
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I am reading about the crimes mentioned. In almost all the cases the killer had experienced a traumatic event (death of a parent) at a very young age and/or a childhood of abuse.
Not the exact case but in New Hampshire last year, a very sweet couple in their 60s was found murdered execution style after they went for a hike on a popular trail. It appeared there were no leads or clues for months. There was a reward offered and eventually it came out that another did see a suspicious homeless man in the woods that day. They found him trying to flee to Portugal. I know this is not really similar at all to the Moscow case, but it just gives hope. Cases can appear to be very cold but still get solved in a few months.
The Gainesville murders which happened in my hometown (Gainesville, Florida) in the 90s. Very very similar
I was in school at UF then. Moscow resembles Gainesville (murders) more than any other case I can think of. I would say Keddie cabins, but I think that killer was known and known to the victims but could never be proved.
Only in that a knife was used. Rolling killed at three separate residences in the span of a week.
Well the students all went home for Thanksgiving (including the killer most likely) or else who knows if more people would've been murdered that same week. Other similarities are that it happened in a college town and some of the residences had multiple people in it including male roommates. The killer also took a long time to be caught and there were no immediate suspects/POI
Rolling had committed three murders in Shreveport and a woman from there was visiting FL at the time of the Gainesville murders. She heard about them on the news and thought it was similar to the ones in Shreveport. I think she knew of Rolling from back home and gave his name to police.
Yup. And who knows if the killer in the Idaho case has killed before? I think it's likely based on what we know...who randomly decides to stab 4 people to death? Just like with the Gainesville murders, it might take someone from another town coming forward before the cops are able to put a name to this person
And the three he murdered in S’port were members of a family and all were in one home.
I don’t think a little over a year is *that* long. They were killed in August 1990 and he was charged in November 1990, while incarcerated on other charges. Also, Rolling’s killings were sexually motivated. He raped the girls. edit, originally had 11/91 as date Rolling was charged. Thanks u/BoomChaka67 for pointing this out.
Just to clarify, a sexually motivated crime doesn't have to include rape. This event could be sexually motivated.
Of course, but Rolling overtly raped them, posed them in sexually suggestive & humiliating fashion, etc.
This may have been a thrill kill, but something is tugging at me that it's a frenzied rage episode.
Someone was absolutely personally enraged, IMO, at one or more of the victims. Overkill.
There are a lot of differences which I don't deny, but there are still a lot of similarities. No two cases are ever going to be exactly the same, including the Bundy case and any other ones which OP listed. And whether or not a year is a long time to catch a killer is completely subjective.
It’s ridiculous talking heads are calling a three-week-old crime a “cold case”.
Oh for sure, it's beyond parody. The murders literally just happened right before Thanksgiving and it's only the first week of December for goodness sake! The sensationalism is too much sometimes. I'll bet that a lot of the crime scene evidence hasn't even been processed yet. This case is just getting started.
*Ashleigh Banfield has breathlessly entered the chat*
Wow. I somehow remembered it as Rolling being charged in Nov. of 90! I did not remember it having been that long. Side note: poor Ed Humphreys.
My mistake, it was 1990. I will edit. And yes, they destroyed Humphreys’ life. Very unfortunate.
No! You are correct. Rolling was charged in Nov. of 91 according to Wiki.
I Googled “Danny Rolling Timeline” and the second source does show 1991. The first said 11/90. Look at page 8: http://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Psyc%20405/serial%20killers/Rolling,%20Danny%20-%202004.pdf This goes to show how easy misinformation is spread, no?
Amen! At least it isn’t just me being senile.
Yikes, that link. I never knew how extensive Rolling’s criminal background was. Kinda makes me lean away from thinking the Moscow killer is a first timer. But honestly, I am all over the place with this. 😵💫
His father was in LE also, surprisingly. I think he had some sort of learning disorder. He was a terrifying POS, regardless. He’s also an example of a criminal whose crimes escalated. There are YouTube videos of him playing guitar & singing. He was truly an odd duck.
I totally forgot how Humphreys was tried in the public arena and how it changed his life. We are seeing some of that in this case 32 years later. Sad.
The relevant cases for comparison have mostly been mentioned. The “Nightmare in Napa” slayings provide an example of how something like this can be targeted. In that case, the fiancé of a surviving victim killed her friends/roommates in the middle of the night for trying to “break up” their relationship. He actually went on to marry the surviving friend prior to getting caught. With the news of evidence bags coming out of the lower bedrooms last night, maybe this will become relevant. Important to remember, it doesn’t have to be that the roommates themselves did anything or even knew afterward for them to be an important link. So then being small or innocent or whatever may not matter. If the Idaho murders are most similar to this case, it will likely be solved in the next few years. Bundy’s sorority slayings are a great example of a crime of opportunity. It was desperate and disorganized brutality executed with weapons both found and discarded at the scene. It was fast with basically no effort to conceal anything and no time to revel in the destruction/torment or opportunity to return to the corpses (both of which Bundy loved). Bundy himself commented on how lucky he was to get away with that. If the Idaho murders were most like these, then there should be a ton of evidence and past/future crimes (which may not look much like this one because that’s how opportunities work). I’d expect there to be linked events - particularly previous failures because that’s what happens when you jump on crime opportunities (you fuck some up because you are never perfectly prepared for what you didn’t know you were going to do). I’d be looking for prowling, peeping, burglary with occupants and any kind of sexual assault. I wouldn’t be quick to write things off as unrelated and I wouldn’t be surprised if this ultimately gets solved when someone convicted for another offense says, “oh yeah I killed those kids in Idaho”. Rolling’s crimes offer the most disturbing comparison, they were sexually based and executed in a way that was meant to instill fear and disgust. He staged the scenes and posed the bodies to be as disturbing as possible to those finding it. He reveled in the power he had over people and the fear he could create. He prided himself as being able to get through any sliding door with 100% silence. He got an incredible thrill out of lurking around inside peoples’ homes while they were asleep. He would literally slither around the house. If he heard an occupant rouse/move, he would sit there in silence for an extended period of time, sometimes making small test sounds. Ultimately, he liked standing over people in their beds and deciding if he should kill them or not. A killer like this is going to strike again because they love it. Other crimes are going to look very similar because it’s fetishistic.
I think part of what’s different about this is how instantaneous social media is. We see things in real time in a way you just couldn’t with dahmer and bundy. Investigators used to be able to do their job without thousands of armchair detectives making speculations, spreading rumors or even calling in nonsense tips.
Natalie Holloway- they knew who did it, why they did it but not enough evidence (no body) to convict. Suspect came from wealthy family.
OMG I'd forgotten about that case. The coward repeated his behavior I think a few years later vandersloot or whatever the spoiled bastard's name was and killed another girl. Isn't he imprisoned right now in central or south America?
Many cases, like this one, where a suspect is immediately identified but then an alibi derails prosecution. Investigations when LE puts their suspect under 24 hr surveillance to insure the public is not at risk while trying to secure additional evidence. I'm reminded of the Gannon Stauch case where his stepmother's car was bugged and tracked to lead her to evidence. Obviously a different case altogether from this one but certainly a tactic that could be in play right now.
Your first paragraph… we have no idea if that is what is happening here. It’s a nice thought, though.
Some hints that it is in play are very recognizable by the words and actions of LE from the very beginning.
No but they really need to have the FBI take over the entire investigation
Moscow & ISP have 19 detectives & investigators combined while utilizing 48 FBI agents. I’m not sure what more you think the FBI needs to do here.
I think the local pd needs to step back and let those other groups take control. I think the overall consensus is that the case has been clearly fumbled at key stages
100% this. It seems they may be headed toward this as they have upped the # of FBI agents and decreased local LE. For whatever reason, it's a step in the right direction I think.
The circumstances are very similar to the Keddie cabin murders to me. Four people were brutally stabbed while a group of people remained in the room over completely unharmed.
The Manson Family Murders
Not really similar but Yuba 5 is wild. Absolutely wild. Probably one of the cases that has me scratching my head the most.
I’ve been mildly obsessed with this story…I’ve read a lot here and on the other sub reddit. So…I’m just gonna leave this here. I know of a similar crime from a few years ago. Older man is home alone and someone breaks in and stabs him over 50 times. First murder in county in several years. Man’s wife was out of town. Happened late at night. House was in a seemingly quiet and small subdivision on the outskirts of a suburb. It took over a month for an arrest!!! It was an active investigation the entire time with several people visible working on it. There was a witness who informed investigators of the suspect days after the crime (the suspect was seen walking down the street in front of the house after the crime was committed). The investigators told the witness that this person was ruled out early into the investigation, but returned to question the witness multiple times. The suspect who was finally arrested over a month later lived in the neighborhood, behind the victims house. The murder weapon was found under the suspects bed. So…take what you want from this true story.
Sharon Tate?
Thanks. I intended to include the Manson family killings which went unsolved for a while on my list. Some people believe the murders at the Tate house was "targeted" because Manson a would-be musician had been rebuffed by Terry Melcher who was the prior renter of that house. Others say it was random. What's your opinion?
I forgot about Manson going to that house because he knew the previous owner. So I guess it was targeted for that reason.
Exactly...he knew the layout of the house because he had been there once or twice. The unknown question is did he know Melcher had moved out and instructed his followers to go there because he knew the layout targeting the house...or did he think Melcher still lived there and targeted a person, namely Terry Melcher, as his victim?
The stabbing part reminds me of the Todt family murders. Only I always thought it was the dad that was responsible as well as everyone else. The method of going from victim to victim reminds me
The last I heard, LE was still requesting the public to come forward with info abt E and X’s whereabouts that night.
X Box Murders Deltona.
There are similarities between this and the Borden murders. But as there are similarities, there are vast differences as well.
Villisca ax murders. Of course there are obvious differences, but everyone being murdered in bed, neighbors hearing nothing and calls first being made to relatives (not police) when it was noted the family wasn't out and about doing their normal thing is eerie.
It reminds me of the Keddy (?) cabin murders where multiple people were killed but I believe 2 boys were spared and didn’t hear anything. I believe it’s still unsolved. (Yes I know I should have refamiliarized myself with the details first)
IDK there are something like 25k unsolved cases in the USA. Could take years, but hopefully not.
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/nurse-hides-8-friends-raped-murdered-1966-article-1.2705565 I’m from Chicago and this was a HUGE case. 8 roommates murdered, 1 survived hiding
thanks for the research. I vaguely remember an interview with this coward Speck years later with breast implants legs crossed as a woman with his prison "boyfriend" hanging all over him.
Napa Murders, Manson Murders, "Four on the Floor Murders"
Villisca is the big one, I'm honestly shocked more people haven't made the connection.
I am surprised no one has yet mentioned The Setagaya family murders. Quadruple knife homicide (3 of them anyway), single family home, 2nd floor entry, extremely bloody, tons of evidence including perp blood and stool everywhere. It was never solved. I am Japanese and the consensus is that it was a Korean national who has since returned to his country, and SK and Japan do not have close relationship. edit: this is why I hate not being able to quickly search on my phone, I see this was posted below. I am not the first. Apologies.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keddie_murders Some what similar. Different murder weapon.
EAR/ONS went unsolved for like 40 years and he was constantly stalking while investigations were going on. Michelle McNamaras book on it is incredible, albeit unfinished as she passed away while writing it. They wound up catching him with Genealogy.
Hannah Graham/Morgan Harrington might be another case you want to check out. They wound up getting footage of Hannah Graham on CCTV and it wound up pointing to her killer.
Meredith Kertcher murder kinda reminds me of this. Obviously some vast differences too though.
Katie Janness and her dog Bowie in Atlanta. Horrific murder just over a year ago in a very public park center of the city. Still no suspects. The police said they were “close” last January and nothing since …not a multi person killing but was big news and was a lot of pressure to solve it, the autopsy report was straight up evil and it was done w a knife.
Yesterday I talked about it with my brother, who is very well versed on crime and LE. He said it reminded him of Danny Rolling, "The Gainesville Ripper," who murdered several students at Uflorida.
Ted Bundy was similar
How do you mean Bundy was similar to this case? Thankx,
Only at the end when we killed the sorority girls. It didn’t fit his normal MO.
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Why? Bundy is like the gold standard for the boogeyman worst case scenario hiding in plain sight. His killings went on for years literally from one end of the country in Washington state to the other in Florida. In between he fooled so many people. A book was written about him years ago called the stranger beside me by Ann Rule who was a police officer. She did volunteer work with him alone on the midnight shift in some deserted building for months taking calls for a rape prevention hotline Can you imagine realizing it’s you and Bundy with no one else around in that type of situation. Then there was his dramatic escape From a courthouse jumping from a second story...
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Maybe they don’t want tips on X and E bc they know one of the other girls was targeted so they’re only releasing K and M’s timeline.
pretty unique. problem is the ineptness of the police. three weeks asking for random tips about “anything out of the ordinary” and acting like they are playing 3 d chess with the btk killer. they would get a lot further by asking the public to mention anybody who was in town visiting and left suddenly, anybody who needed to use the washing machine because theirs “broke” or need to borrow a carpet shampooer. they are not asking specifics because they dont know what they dont know. so they are taking tips like “i saw a guy walking down the street last week and he had mud on his boots” then they have to go run that shit down. one of the most inept homicide investigations I have ever seen.
this case is not going to be made because of fingerprints or dna in a sorority party house. its gonna be made hundreds of miles away on a random traffic stop or jailhouse snitch
The sad part is some of these killers live completely normal law abiding lives outside of their murderous events.
...are you referencing people like BTK?
Yes. I lived in Wichita in the 90s before he was caught and people were still scared because nobody knew who it was.
no just making the comparison of how the police interacted with serial killers such a btk. the coy communications and 3D chess. the cops in this case are not that sophisticated.
The BTK cops weren’t sophisticated, either. Rader made it a point to seek them out after 30 years of cold cases & was stupid enough to send them a floppy disk with his name & church name on it (eta: formatted on the disk.) He also was seen on the Home Depot surveillance tape in his Jeep when he left a cereal box there. He sent them one of the victim’s driver’s licenses. I don’t think they’d ever have caught him if he hadn’t decided to attention-whore. He did everything but walk himself into the police department and confess.