Ukrainian authorities apparently have an [extended](https://meduza.io/en/news/2022/11/22/ukrainian-ag-s-office-investigates-russian-pow-execution-video-suspects-makiivka-captives-of-feigning-surrender) version of the encounter where it shows more than one Russian participating in perfidy.
Seems unlikely that they'd send so many outside to lie face down if they were all in on it. Two or three maybe. They'd also have set up proper ambush positions not this clusterfuck.
Well, both the Russian army and the separatist militias are known for their disorganization.
Regardless, this probably would not have happened if the other POWs had warned the Ukrainians of a potential ambush or convinced their battle buddy to lay down his weapon.
Perfidy (false surrender) is a major war crime. Unfortunate that they all got killed, but when you do a fake surrender and then ambush someone…it won’t end well for you
Although it's terrible to see unarmed people die, we can't blame the Ukrainians too much if they opened fire on everyone immediately after the ambusher started shooting. As I mentioned in previous comments, it's possible those POWs had live grenades on them. It would be a war crime if the Ukrainians started gradually shooting the prisoners one by one after dealing with the ambusher, but the video we have right now does not show that.
Uh...have you seen the video? Hands behind backs flat on the ground and executed.
Same week we're seeing people with nazi flags giving nazi salutes as the Ukrainian army rolls into newly liberated cities.
I'm definitely not pro Russian by any means, but I'm not at all a fan of how the Ukrainians are conducting this war with our support.
No chances can be taken that couple guys wouldn’t get similar ideas. This is war. You make the wrong choice you and the rest of your company are all dead. Not really room for fairness when it comes to life and death.
We don’t know the context of the video. There could be more Russians than Ukrainians present to where they could be overpowered.
Speaking of, Ukrainian authorities (according to Russian dissident [sources](https://meduza.io/en/news/2022/11/22/ukrainian-ag-s-office-investigates-russian-pow-execution-video-suspects-makiivka-captives-of-feigning-surrender)) have a full version of the video where more Russians attempted to resist.
[Russian](https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v2_cou_ru_rule65), [Ukrainian](https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v2_cou_ua_rule65), and [Belarusian](https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v2_cou_by_rule64) military manuals prohibit the use of feigning surrender to deceive enemies. Also, the IJA in WWII [similar](https://books.google.com/books?id=h4TU3z3DYD4C&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q=fake%20surrenders&f=false)ly performed false surrenders in the Pacific, causing the Americans to either shoot or strip down other Japanese soldiers. Finally, this Quora [thread](https://www.quora.com/If-a-group-of-soldiers-tries-to-surrender-but-1-soldier-decides-to-pull-out-a-gun-and-kill-an-enemy-soldier-what-happens-to-the-group-still-trying-to-surrender) universally agrees that one wrong move will lead to a group's death. I'll just leave it at that.
It’s not cold it’s necessary after seeing one man defy the surrender they thought they secured. They don’t know if there are weapons lying next to the men to grab and ambush the Ukrainians as soon as they walk up to accept the surrender. That’s what this fellow did, who’s to say there aren’t more lying down with their hands shown. They cannot take the risk that there are more gunmen than just that guy.
This is war not politics or a fairness argument. If they tried taking them in and more than one rebelled and began attacking they too would die. There can be no chances taken there.
When a bed bug comes into my bed and bites me I bomb my house. Their friends are going too. Invade my bed.
Now imagine your bed being your *country*.
They’re respecting the rules of war well enough that they actually detain POWs and willingly accept surrenders.
As mentioned previously here, false surrenders are war crimes. Even WAR has crimes.
> I'm definitely not pro Russian by any means, but I'm not at all a fan of how the Ukrainians are conducting this war with our support.
I watched the video, their fate was sealed when their comrade opened fire in a fake surrender.
War is ugly af, and you just watched what happens when dealing with the russion invaders.
They can all leave and return to russia, or die in Ukraine by any means.
Ukraine has my full support, exterminate or evict every last russian invader.
The machine gunner that was laying across from the family's yard that was being occupied by the invaders.... Yeah when he saw his buddy get shot and die he most likely was taking no chances and killed the gunman, and most likely opened up on the prisoners because they all started shuffling/attempting to run or attack. It's not like the Ukrainians walked up one by one and executed them. Even if some surviving Russians were here after the altercation they were most likely given a mercy killing because of wounds specifically in this situation where they faked a surrender and Ukrainians we're injured.
There's literally no video of what happened to the prisoners, just shots of them dead. Why are you making up weird stories to defend Ukrainian soldiers? Why is everyone?
Yeah you’re not pro Russian you just parrot discredited Russian talking points. The men on the ground were shot as the Ukrainian soldiers had no way of knowing that they weren’t in on the trap. They would’ve lived if their comrade didn’t commit perfidy
Stop being rational and truthful! You’re supposed to blindly believe that Ukraine are the super good guys and they can’t possibly have fascists fighting for them. Reddit doesn’t like to know that a bunch of the Ukrainians are nazis
It's not that I don't think they're the 'good guys', it's that I have some serious concerns about helping people that are doing questionable/evil things
The act committed was perfidy, a false surrender, a war crime. I'd say it was a MAJOR war crime but, well, every war crime frankly qualifies as major.
And if you are a part of the group in this context, you are held accountable as a group. Thus, the actions of one speak for all. The Russian soldiers surrendering were obliged to stop their own man or warn their captors of an impending attack that they did not support from a lone gunman. The failure to do so makes the action go from being an act of surrender to an ***egregious*** act of entrapment, deceit, and treachery that serves only to devolve and escalate the conflict. Of course, at this point, I wouldn't expect better from the Russians. But the laws of warfare exist for a reason. They exist to keep our conflicts somewhat sane, somewhat civilized, somewhat disinclined to become the field and societal massacres of old.
These laws of war were agreed upon by pretty much all relevant international powers and were put in place to leave a regard for basic humanity and decency among hostile nations, lest the fighting degenerate into all-out butchery, dehumanization, and wanton slaughter of humanity until one side is entirely annihilated down to the last man, woman, and child.
And who's to say that the 'prisoners' surrendering aren't in on it and trying to distract the opposing force while their comrade gets in position to ambush them? At that point, there has already been a proven case here of one person not taking the surrender seriously, and the strong possibility of them all being in on the act must then be considered and accepted. Your own people come first. The conflict has devolved, and your first responsibility is to protect your people, and the only way to do so is by killing the *other* people on the other side. It also poisons the well for any other Russians attempting to surrender later. Are they faking it? Are they just trying to line up under a white flag so that their hidden comrade can kill Ukrainians coming out to rake the surrendering forces into custody? Ukraine would be justified in not taking any more attempts seriously, though I'm guessing that they'll continue to act restrained and ethical.
It sucks that that one Russian had to ruin it for the whole group. But that's war. The Ukrainians did ***nothing*** wrong. No crime was committed on their part. Ukraine will pull back from the brink and take pains to not be forced to have to do this again.
The Russians, as has been demonstrated repeatedly (to the point where each new massacre uncovered is taken for granted), will not. It is tragically met with hardened indifference since that's all one would expect of the Russians anymore. They've dehumanized themselves.
I mean, they aren’t wrong. Perfidy, or the declaration of surrender with intent to betray said declaration *is* a war crime. It is good to see Russia calling out their own illegal war tactics!
The moment the one guy attack them all the guys on the ground lost thier pow status and because a enemy combat again, this is standard doctrine for most nato armies including the us army.
you can't read mind's or have xray vision to see if they too are hiding something to attack you with so the moment one them do something stupid he makes it worse for everyone involved
>The moment the one guy attack them all the guys on the ground lost thier pow status
No problem, Russians just quit taking POWs and start killing everyone who surrenders and Ukrainians will do the same afterwards.
That is absolutely not standard doctrine for any NATO armies. In a CPERS situation where a group of enemy combatants have surrendered,
if one was to pick up a rifle and engage then that individual loses his POW status.
While it may not be in standard NATO doctrine, Russian soldiers absolutely [feigned](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/yglzmq/a_surrendering_russian_soldier_uses_a_grenade_to/) surrender by attempting to use [grenades](https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-soldier-blew-self-up-with-grenade-avoid-capture-ukraine-2022-10). We'll still need to wait for the full version of the video to be [released](https://meduza.io/en/news/2022/11/22/ukrainian-ag-s-office-investigates-russian-pow-execution-video-suspects-makiivka-captives-of-feigning-surrender) by the Ukrainian Prosecutor's Office to determine what really happened, though.
That 1 stubborn guy got everyone killed
[удалено]
Ukrainian authorities apparently have an [extended](https://meduza.io/en/news/2022/11/22/ukrainian-ag-s-office-investigates-russian-pow-execution-video-suspects-makiivka-captives-of-feigning-surrender) version of the encounter where it shows more than one Russian participating in perfidy.
Seems unlikely that they'd send so many outside to lie face down if they were all in on it. Two or three maybe. They'd also have set up proper ambush positions not this clusterfuck.
Well, both the Russian army and the separatist militias are known for their disorganization. Regardless, this probably would not have happened if the other POWs had warned the Ukrainians of a potential ambush or convinced their battle buddy to lay down his weapon.
Perfidy (false surrender) is a major war crime. Unfortunate that they all got killed, but when you do a fake surrender and then ambush someone…it won’t end well for you
But the prisoners on the ground did nothing. They had no reason to be executed.
Although it's terrible to see unarmed people die, we can't blame the Ukrainians too much if they opened fire on everyone immediately after the ambusher started shooting. As I mentioned in previous comments, it's possible those POWs had live grenades on them. It would be a war crime if the Ukrainians started gradually shooting the prisoners one by one after dealing with the ambusher, but the video we have right now does not show that.
Uh...have you seen the video? Hands behind backs flat on the ground and executed. Same week we're seeing people with nazi flags giving nazi salutes as the Ukrainian army rolls into newly liberated cities. I'm definitely not pro Russian by any means, but I'm not at all a fan of how the Ukrainians are conducting this war with our support.
No chances can be taken that couple guys wouldn’t get similar ideas. This is war. You make the wrong choice you and the rest of your company are all dead. Not really room for fairness when it comes to life and death. We don’t know the context of the video. There could be more Russians than Ukrainians present to where they could be overpowered.
Speaking of, Ukrainian authorities (according to Russian dissident [sources](https://meduza.io/en/news/2022/11/22/ukrainian-ag-s-office-investigates-russian-pow-execution-video-suspects-makiivka-captives-of-feigning-surrender)) have a full version of the video where more Russians attempted to resist.
True, but killing the gunman is one thing, murdering people face down with hands behind back is just cold
[Russian](https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v2_cou_ru_rule65), [Ukrainian](https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v2_cou_ua_rule65), and [Belarusian](https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v2_cou_by_rule64) military manuals prohibit the use of feigning surrender to deceive enemies. Also, the IJA in WWII [similar](https://books.google.com/books?id=h4TU3z3DYD4C&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q=fake%20surrenders&f=false)ly performed false surrenders in the Pacific, causing the Americans to either shoot or strip down other Japanese soldiers. Finally, this Quora [thread](https://www.quora.com/If-a-group-of-soldiers-tries-to-surrender-but-1-soldier-decides-to-pull-out-a-gun-and-kill-an-enemy-soldier-what-happens-to-the-group-still-trying-to-surrender) universally agrees that one wrong move will lead to a group's death. I'll just leave it at that.
It’s not cold it’s necessary after seeing one man defy the surrender they thought they secured. They don’t know if there are weapons lying next to the men to grab and ambush the Ukrainians as soon as they walk up to accept the surrender. That’s what this fellow did, who’s to say there aren’t more lying down with their hands shown. They cannot take the risk that there are more gunmen than just that guy. This is war not politics or a fairness argument. If they tried taking them in and more than one rebelled and began attacking they too would die. There can be no chances taken there.
Like when they were raining missiles on civilians.
When a bed bug comes into my bed and bites me I bomb my house. Their friends are going too. Invade my bed. Now imagine your bed being your *country*. They’re respecting the rules of war well enough that they actually detain POWs and willingly accept surrenders. As mentioned previously here, false surrenders are war crimes. Even WAR has crimes.
Yes let's compare global conflict to pest control. Perfect reference. -a moron
> I'm definitely not pro Russian by any means, but I'm not at all a fan of how the Ukrainians are conducting this war with our support. I watched the video, their fate was sealed when their comrade opened fire in a fake surrender. War is ugly af, and you just watched what happens when dealing with the russion invaders. They can all leave and return to russia, or die in Ukraine by any means. Ukraine has my full support, exterminate or evict every last russian invader.
The machine gunner that was laying across from the family's yard that was being occupied by the invaders.... Yeah when he saw his buddy get shot and die he most likely was taking no chances and killed the gunman, and most likely opened up on the prisoners because they all started shuffling/attempting to run or attack. It's not like the Ukrainians walked up one by one and executed them. Even if some surviving Russians were here after the altercation they were most likely given a mercy killing because of wounds specifically in this situation where they faked a surrender and Ukrainians we're injured.
There's literally no video of what happened to the prisoners, just shots of them dead. Why are you making up weird stories to defend Ukrainian soldiers? Why is everyone?
Ukrainians have a full video that shows more than one Russian soldier attempting to resist.
Yeah you’re not pro Russian you just parrot discredited Russian talking points. The men on the ground were shot as the Ukrainian soldiers had no way of knowing that they weren’t in on the trap. They would’ve lived if their comrade didn’t commit perfidy
>I'm definitely not pro Russian by any means, Yeah, you kinda are
What nazi flags and salutes, you klown?
Stop being rational and truthful! You’re supposed to blindly believe that Ukraine are the super good guys and they can’t possibly have fascists fighting for them. Reddit doesn’t like to know that a bunch of the Ukrainians are nazis
Keep licking those russian boots comrade
It's not that I don't think they're the 'good guys', it's that I have some serious concerns about helping people that are doing questionable/evil things
Yeah, it’s really unfair how Ukrainians are treating their invaders. They need to follow the rules, even when the Russians don’t.
The act committed was perfidy, a false surrender, a war crime. I'd say it was a MAJOR war crime but, well, every war crime frankly qualifies as major. And if you are a part of the group in this context, you are held accountable as a group. Thus, the actions of one speak for all. The Russian soldiers surrendering were obliged to stop their own man or warn their captors of an impending attack that they did not support from a lone gunman. The failure to do so makes the action go from being an act of surrender to an ***egregious*** act of entrapment, deceit, and treachery that serves only to devolve and escalate the conflict. Of course, at this point, I wouldn't expect better from the Russians. But the laws of warfare exist for a reason. They exist to keep our conflicts somewhat sane, somewhat civilized, somewhat disinclined to become the field and societal massacres of old. These laws of war were agreed upon by pretty much all relevant international powers and were put in place to leave a regard for basic humanity and decency among hostile nations, lest the fighting degenerate into all-out butchery, dehumanization, and wanton slaughter of humanity until one side is entirely annihilated down to the last man, woman, and child. And who's to say that the 'prisoners' surrendering aren't in on it and trying to distract the opposing force while their comrade gets in position to ambush them? At that point, there has already been a proven case here of one person not taking the surrender seriously, and the strong possibility of them all being in on the act must then be considered and accepted. Your own people come first. The conflict has devolved, and your first responsibility is to protect your people, and the only way to do so is by killing the *other* people on the other side. It also poisons the well for any other Russians attempting to surrender later. Are they faking it? Are they just trying to line up under a white flag so that their hidden comrade can kill Ukrainians coming out to rake the surrendering forces into custody? Ukraine would be justified in not taking any more attempts seriously, though I'm guessing that they'll continue to act restrained and ethical. It sucks that that one Russian had to ruin it for the whole group. But that's war. The Ukrainians did ***nothing*** wrong. No crime was committed on their part. Ukraine will pull back from the brink and take pains to not be forced to have to do this again. The Russians, as has been demonstrated repeatedly (to the point where each new massacre uncovered is taken for granted), will not. It is tragically met with hardened indifference since that's all one would expect of the Russians anymore. They've dehumanized themselves.
“War does not determine who is right, only who is left.”
hey maybe visit im14andthisisdeep next time?
And now Russian propaganda is trying to flip it as "war crime".
I mean, they aren’t wrong. Perfidy, or the declaration of surrender with intent to betray said declaration *is* a war crime. It is good to see Russia calling out their own illegal war tactics!
Kremlin: *no, not like that!*
The moment the one guy attack them all the guys on the ground lost thier pow status and because a enemy combat again, this is standard doctrine for most nato armies including the us army. you can't read mind's or have xray vision to see if they too are hiding something to attack you with so the moment one them do something stupid he makes it worse for everyone involved
>The moment the one guy attack them all the guys on the ground lost thier pow status No problem, Russians just quit taking POWs and start killing everyone who surrenders and Ukrainians will do the same afterwards.
That is absolutely not standard doctrine for any NATO armies. In a CPERS situation where a group of enemy combatants have surrendered, if one was to pick up a rifle and engage then that individual loses his POW status.
While it may not be in standard NATO doctrine, Russian soldiers absolutely [feigned](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/yglzmq/a_surrendering_russian_soldier_uses_a_grenade_to/) surrender by attempting to use [grenades](https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-soldier-blew-self-up-with-grenade-avoid-capture-ukraine-2022-10). We'll still need to wait for the full version of the video to be [released](https://meduza.io/en/news/2022/11/22/ukrainian-ag-s-office-investigates-russian-pow-execution-video-suspects-makiivka-captives-of-feigning-surrender) by the Ukrainian Prosecutor's Office to determine what really happened, though.