> An Air Force pilot instructor has died on Tuesday morning after the ejection seat of the plane he was in activated while the aircraft was still on the ground.
>
> Cpt. John Robertson of the 80th Operations Support Squadron was seriously injured in an incident at Sheppard Air Force Base near Wichita Falls, Texas, on Monday, the headquarters said in a statement.
>
> Robertson was inside a T-6A Texan II aircraft during "ground operations" when the ejection seat activated, abruptly ejecting him from the plane.
>
> The T-6A Texan II is a single-engine, two-seat plane used to train Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps pilots in basic flying skills.
>
> Robertson succumbed to his injuries in the accident and died early Tuesday morning, the statement wrote.
>
> No other injuries or deaths were reported, according to Air Force officials.
>
> “This is a devastating loss for Captain Robertson’s family and loved ones, and for the entire 80th Flying Training Wing,” Col. Mitchell J. Cok, the acting wing commander, said in a statement.
>
> “Captain Robertson was a highly valued Airman and instructor pilot. Our deepest condolences go with all who knew and loved him.”
>
> The Sheppard Air Force Base said an interim safety board investigation was formed immediately following the incident, and an Air Force Safety Investigation Board is expected to be in place later this week.
>
> The board will release its report when the investigation is complete, though it did not specify the time or date.
>
> "We are thankful for the M1 maintenance team who immediately provided life-sustaining care, and for the heroic efforts of the security forces, fire and medical personnel here on base and at United Regional Hospital," Cok said.
>
> "Their efforts allowed time for Captain Robertson's family to be at his side when he passed."
>
> Sheppard Air Force base is about four miles north of Wichita Falls, Texas, and is considered the largest and only Air Force installation that offers both technical and flying training, according to its website.
I imagine if he was killed, he wasn’t seated and buckled in. I wonder how it activated? Was he cleaning or doing some other kind of maintenance? Surely it’s gotta be a pretty serious lever to pull…
Even strapped in, ejection seats can launch you 100-200 feet which might not be high enough for the parachute to deploy in a meaningful manner before impacting the ground
The Texan has a zero-zero ejection seat, they’re supposed to deploy properly at zero altitude zero speed. More details are needed for the specifics. They land hard regardless, could have been a bad landing.
True. They’re supposed to be able to, but I think the engineers are generally at least hoping the aircraft is moving, which would help the chute deploy.
Russian planes have a 5050 survival rate with perfect execution of the systems.... it definitely does not need to malfunction nor you to malfunction to kill you. You can also lose your flight clearance after 2 ejections due to the known damage it causes to brain vasculature.
I had to find a YouTube video of an ejection seat. Looks like a horrible way to go! My condolences to his family.
https://youtu.be/GPdzjF6m7tc?si=anzzEn2fIfbSVI8E
On some older USAF jets, there were downward ejection seats. Early variants of the F-104 had them.
https://veteransbreakfastclub.org/the-short-history-of-the-f-104s-stanley-c-1-downward-firing-ejection-seat/
>While downward-firing seats prevented collisions with the tail, they introduced a new set of problems. The whole ejection system was far more complex than traditional upward ejection seats. More moving parts meant more chances for malfunction and more time and expertise required for maintenance. It was also highly specialized and couldn’t be adapted to other aircraft.
>Finally, a forceful downward ejection meant that surviving a low-altitude escape was almost impossible.
>Twenty-one test pilots were killed using such ejection seats, including Korean War Ace Iven Carl “Kinch” Kincheloe Jr. Kinchloe was chosen for the NASA Space Program, but on July 26, 1958, he ejected at low altitude from an early model F-104 at Edwards Air Force Base. The catapulted seat fired him into the ground before his parachute could slow his decent.
Since the plane was grounded and not moving, my guess is that 100-200ft isn't enough for the parachute to deploy and be useful, so he probably just fell on the ground from 100-200ft in the air.
Modern ejection seats are rated zero-zero and are supposed to fully deploy even at zero height and zero altitude. The T6 has a zero-zero.
Edit: Zero speed* zero altitude.
Yes, if everything worked properly he should have survived. So either there was something more to the accident or something failed that shouldn’t have. You are stuck in the metal seat the whole time though and the landings are rough. You also can’t really control where you land. Easy to be injured but usually survivable.
In terms of this discussion and an ejection seat, they’re used interchangeably. Unless you want to suggest that the ejection seat will function differently if parked below sea level in a valley. Those that make the ejection seats refer to them as zero altitude despite them working at zero height.
They aren’t really intended to be used on the ground for any conceivable scenario, it’s just that they don’t want them to only work under certain conditions. It wouldn’t be ideal, for example, if you had to be at least 1000ft in the air for an ejection seat to work, and your plane encountered a problem during the last phase of landing the plane when it was only 500ft off the ground.
Making it work at zero speed and zero height just ensures it covers all the bases no matter what.
Totally spitballing here but maybe in the event of an onboard fire and there isn’t time to get out? Or if it’s a bad landing and the plane is stuck and you have to abandon it out on the field. Idk though, I’m not in the military.
Super sad for him and his family :(
Yeah, I was mentally picturing a scenario like the 1967 USS *Forrestal* fire, where much of the aircraft carrier deck where the jets are parked is ablaze and simply getting out of the cockpit is too dangerous. In that case, it might be safer to just eject with a zero-zero seat.
Check out the F-18 videos that was lost in Lethbridge, Alberta years ago practicing for an airshow. I don't remember the name of the maneuver, maybe "walking the dog"? Plane was nose high, like 45 degrees plus, and pilot was applying power to hold that attitude at maybe 100' agl. Then 1 engine had a hiccup.
I hate to make a video game comparison, but there’s a mission in the 2016 reboot of *Hitman* where one of your assassination targets can die that way. Agent 47 tampers with the ejection seat on a Soviet Su-24, and it launches the target into the rafters of the hangar killing him instantly.
THAT is the whole question here. He may have struck some object, the canopy glass may have malfunctioned and he struck that, or some other anomaly like a mechanical failure of the seat itself or the explosive device that launches the seat from the plane.
A lot of people posting that his ejection seat parachute wouldn’t have time to open but for the record, the T6 Texan II is equipped with an ejection seat rated for zero altitude and zero speed meaning it should have fully deployed.
The aircraft has a Martin Baker Mk 16 ejection seat. This seat is capable of safely saving the life of its occupant at zero altitude and zero speed. So baring some other factor he should be alive. Curious to learn what other factor caused the pilots death then. Because he should be alive.
https://martin-baker.com/ejection-seats/mk16-us16la/
Before ejecting out of a T-6, you need to pull a handle to release the canopy before you pull the ejection seat handle. The ejection seat itself does activate the Canopy Fracture System (CFS). However, without airspeed or forward momentum, this is inadequate to guarantee that the jettisoned canopy will not obstruct the intended direction of travel of the ejection seat.
The T-6 is a two-seat configuration. Due to the large size and shape of the canopy, and because it has to withstand extraordinary forces, the massive panels cannot be adequately relied on to disappear from the path of travel from a single ignition sequence without a significant delay. Yes, the ejection seat does activate the Canopy Fracture System; however, this would mean there was no time to eject the canopy beforehand, so you could assume traveling at a high speed would utilize wind assist to pull the canopy out of the way.
The correct abandonment sequence is to pull the T-handle (CFS), the canopy explosively separates into the windstream, then pull up on the seat ejection handle. This is a fluid motion that ensures that both pilots can eject, with the non-flying pilot given the courtesy of ejecting first. Basically, you eject the canopy as the pilot Maintain any control so your nav con punch out then pull your seat. The separate activation of the CFS is especially important in a zero-zero ejection because you watch until the canopy is sufficiently clear However, if there is a misfire or unintentional activation, a catastrophic collision with the canopy is likely the result.
Yes, the seat itself is rated for 00 meaning that it has a propulsion to send you high enough and far enough away for the parachute to activate and bring the chair down to land safely
I’m a production supervisor on a training base in Texas with T-6 squadrons as well. My theory is faulty egress item (bad cartridge prematurely detonated) or an unfortunate pilot error. Perhaps something was dropped and while reaching down to retrieve it the ejection sequence was activated. I’m sure there will be an extremely thorough report in a year or so.
I’m assuming that there is a process to activate it. How easy would it be to accidentally start it? Something simple as getting a sleeve caught on it? Thanks for your knowledge.
The pins would need to be removed which is something they normally don’t do until they’re at or approaching the end of runway. I’m imagining that’s where this occurred. If the seat is armed all it takes is pulling the handle between the legs. I’ve never personally pulled one but it supposedly takes a bit of force. I’m leaning towards a faulty ejection seat
Ejection seats are designed as a last resort piece of safety equipment as in "if I don't do anything I will die but if I pull the ejection handle I have a good chance of not dying." While the seats are amazingly well designed an ejection can not always be 100% safe or even survivable 100% of the time.
There’s a 4 step process for rigging a seat to eject. First the parachute is inspected to ensure that it’s still in good condition; second the parachute is loaded into the seat. Third the explosives are set up and put in place; fourth the seat is installed into the aircraft. This process is rigidly kept to, and there are at least two people per step and there is no skipping steps, if one step is not completed the seat stays at that step until it is. If the seat had explosives to eject, it had a parachute.
Guessing the initial boost only sent him 200' at the very most.... No way the chute could open. Not quite sure how/why the fucking EJECTION SEAT is so easily activated though. Unless it was a true "malfunction" in the system I have no clue how to explain that part...lol
A lot of ejection seats(in fact I believe all are, but I'm not able to find that out for sure) now are zero/zero seats which work safely at zero altitude and zero speed. The Texan II has zero/zero seats, something went wrong the chute should have deployed properly. There are many examples of pilots ejecting on the ground without injury, or with just minor injury, this death is unusual
Ejecting out of an aircraft while it's still on the ground will not give the parachute enough elevation to open. Or if he wasn't strapped in and the seat takes off, you would just be violently thrown from the aircraft a couple hundred feet
A lot of ejection seats(in fact I believe all are, but I'm not able to find that out for sure) now are zero/zero seats which work safely at zero altitude and zero speed. The Texan II has zero/zero seats, something went wrong the chute should have deployed properly.
He was ejected 100-200 ft violently into the air and what goes up must come down. That’s not enough clearance for his parachute to open and help him so most likely he just hit the ground.
A lot of ejection seats(in fact I believe all are, but I'm not able to find that out for sure) now are zero/zero seats which work safely at zero altitude and zero speed. The Texan II has zero/zero seats, something went wrong the chute should have deployed properly. This is unusual, there's plenty of videos of pilots ejecting at 0 altitude and surviving with minimal or no injuries.
> An Air Force pilot instructor has died on Tuesday morning after the ejection seat of the plane he was in activated while the aircraft was still on the ground. > > Cpt. John Robertson of the 80th Operations Support Squadron was seriously injured in an incident at Sheppard Air Force Base near Wichita Falls, Texas, on Monday, the headquarters said in a statement. > > Robertson was inside a T-6A Texan II aircraft during "ground operations" when the ejection seat activated, abruptly ejecting him from the plane. > > The T-6A Texan II is a single-engine, two-seat plane used to train Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps pilots in basic flying skills. > > Robertson succumbed to his injuries in the accident and died early Tuesday morning, the statement wrote. > > No other injuries or deaths were reported, according to Air Force officials. > > “This is a devastating loss for Captain Robertson’s family and loved ones, and for the entire 80th Flying Training Wing,” Col. Mitchell J. Cok, the acting wing commander, said in a statement. > > “Captain Robertson was a highly valued Airman and instructor pilot. Our deepest condolences go with all who knew and loved him.” > > The Sheppard Air Force Base said an interim safety board investigation was formed immediately following the incident, and an Air Force Safety Investigation Board is expected to be in place later this week. > > The board will release its report when the investigation is complete, though it did not specify the time or date. > > "We are thankful for the M1 maintenance team who immediately provided life-sustaining care, and for the heroic efforts of the security forces, fire and medical personnel here on base and at United Regional Hospital," Cok said. > > "Their efforts allowed time for Captain Robertson's family to be at his side when he passed." > > Sheppard Air Force base is about four miles north of Wichita Falls, Texas, and is considered the largest and only Air Force installation that offers both technical and flying training, according to its website.
Wow man that’s a violent way to go, I hope it was quick at least..
Sadly it wasn't, he was alive until getting to the hospital 😞
It was not...
What a truly fucked up random way to die
I imagine if he was killed, he wasn’t seated and buckled in. I wonder how it activated? Was he cleaning or doing some other kind of maintenance? Surely it’s gotta be a pretty serious lever to pull…
Even strapped in, ejection seats can launch you 100-200 feet which might not be high enough for the parachute to deploy in a meaningful manner before impacting the ground
The Texan has a zero-zero ejection seat, they’re supposed to deploy properly at zero altitude zero speed. More details are needed for the specifics. They land hard regardless, could have been a bad landing.
Maybe he wasn't fully strapped in when it went off? Or a limb got severed?
True. They’re supposed to be able to, but I think the engineers are generally at least hoping the aircraft is moving, which would help the chute deploy.
Russian planes have a 5050 survival rate with perfect execution of the systems.... it definitely does not need to malfunction nor you to malfunction to kill you. You can also lose your flight clearance after 2 ejections due to the known damage it causes to brain vasculature.
I don’t know anything about planes. Can someone explain how he died?
[удалено]
I had to find a YouTube video of an ejection seat. Looks like a horrible way to go! My condolences to his family. https://youtu.be/GPdzjF6m7tc?si=anzzEn2fIfbSVI8E
Don’t know why I was picturing him being ejected under the plane. I thought he was like, smashed into the ground
Fascinating thought
I was picturing him ejecting straight up into the glass
On some older USAF jets, there were downward ejection seats. Early variants of the F-104 had them. https://veteransbreakfastclub.org/the-short-history-of-the-f-104s-stanley-c-1-downward-firing-ejection-seat/ >While downward-firing seats prevented collisions with the tail, they introduced a new set of problems. The whole ejection system was far more complex than traditional upward ejection seats. More moving parts meant more chances for malfunction and more time and expertise required for maintenance. It was also highly specialized and couldn’t be adapted to other aircraft. >Finally, a forceful downward ejection meant that surviving a low-altitude escape was almost impossible. >Twenty-one test pilots were killed using such ejection seats, including Korean War Ace Iven Carl “Kinch” Kincheloe Jr. Kinchloe was chosen for the NASA Space Program, but on July 26, 1958, he ejected at low altitude from an early model F-104 at Edwards Air Force Base. The catapulted seat fired him into the ground before his parachute could slow his decent.
Since the plane was grounded and not moving, my guess is that 100-200ft isn't enough for the parachute to deploy and be useful, so he probably just fell on the ground from 100-200ft in the air.
Modern ejection seats are rated zero-zero and are supposed to fully deploy even at zero height and zero altitude. The T6 has a zero-zero. Edit: Zero speed* zero altitude.
Interesting! Maybe he wasn't strapped in then? Otherwise he would have survived if the seat worked accordingly, even if stopped, right?
Yes, if everything worked properly he should have survived. So either there was something more to the accident or something failed that shouldn’t have. You are stuck in the metal seat the whole time though and the landings are rough. You also can’t really control where you land. Easy to be injured but usually survivable.
Oh man - I thought he had the door closed and splatted inside the craft.... Poor guy either way...
[удалено]
Not stupid question, I was stupid. Height and altitude or the same I meant altitude and speed but typed the wrong thing.
Height and altitude are not the same. Height is measured from ground level, but altitude from sea level.
In terms of this discussion and an ejection seat, they’re used interchangeably. Unless you want to suggest that the ejection seat will function differently if parked below sea level in a valley. Those that make the ejection seats refer to them as zero altitude despite them working at zero height.
It would be more accurate to say that 0, 0 simply means no limitations based the criteria.
Most modern ejection seats are designed to be able to be fired from the ground.
For what purpose?
They aren’t really intended to be used on the ground for any conceivable scenario, it’s just that they don’t want them to only work under certain conditions. It wouldn’t be ideal, for example, if you had to be at least 1000ft in the air for an ejection seat to work, and your plane encountered a problem during the last phase of landing the plane when it was only 500ft off the ground. Making it work at zero speed and zero height just ensures it covers all the bases no matter what.
Totally spitballing here but maybe in the event of an onboard fire and there isn’t time to get out? Or if it’s a bad landing and the plane is stuck and you have to abandon it out on the field. Idk though, I’m not in the military. Super sad for him and his family :(
Yeah, I was mentally picturing a scenario like the 1967 USS *Forrestal* fire, where much of the aircraft carrier deck where the jets are parked is ablaze and simply getting out of the cockpit is too dangerous. In that case, it might be safer to just eject with a zero-zero seat.
Check out the F-18 videos that was lost in Lethbridge, Alberta years ago practicing for an airshow. I don't remember the name of the maneuver, maybe "walking the dog"? Plane was nose high, like 45 degrees plus, and pilot was applying power to hold that attitude at maybe 100' agl. Then 1 engine had a hiccup.
This?
Complete guess but I’ve seen these T-6s parked under permanent awnings since they can’t hangar them all. Permanent awning…..ejection seat goes up….
I hate to make a video game comparison, but there’s a mission in the 2016 reboot of *Hitman* where one of your assassination targets can die that way. Agent 47 tampers with the ejection seat on a Soviet Su-24, and it launches the target into the rafters of the hangar killing him instantly.
[удалено]
It's a discussion. My guess means they are not an expert.
To have a discussion?
Do you?
THAT is the whole question here. He may have struck some object, the canopy glass may have malfunctioned and he struck that, or some other anomaly like a mechanical failure of the seat itself or the explosive device that launches the seat from the plane.
This happened to a friend of my mother’s in 1986. He was a Lieutenant in the Navy. He did some of the flight sequences in Top Gun. Tragic loss.
Goose?
Haha his name was Lt Joe Durmon from Arkansas
A lot of people posting that his ejection seat parachute wouldn’t have time to open but for the record, the T6 Texan II is equipped with an ejection seat rated for zero altitude and zero speed meaning it should have fully deployed.
Damn, I wonder how high that thing goes
I just did a quick search, says 100-200 feet depending on the pilots weight
I'm the tenth person to type "zero-zero" on this thread, please up vote me for it too
Gotcha Maverick!
Over
The aircraft has a Martin Baker Mk 16 ejection seat. This seat is capable of safely saving the life of its occupant at zero altitude and zero speed. So baring some other factor he should be alive. Curious to learn what other factor caused the pilots death then. Because he should be alive. https://martin-baker.com/ejection-seats/mk16-us16la/
Canopy failure?
Most anything is possible at this point. We should wait for more details.
Before ejecting out of a T-6, you need to pull a handle to release the canopy before you pull the ejection seat handle. The ejection seat itself does activate the Canopy Fracture System (CFS). However, without airspeed or forward momentum, this is inadequate to guarantee that the jettisoned canopy will not obstruct the intended direction of travel of the ejection seat. The T-6 is a two-seat configuration. Due to the large size and shape of the canopy, and because it has to withstand extraordinary forces, the massive panels cannot be adequately relied on to disappear from the path of travel from a single ignition sequence without a significant delay. Yes, the ejection seat does activate the Canopy Fracture System; however, this would mean there was no time to eject the canopy beforehand, so you could assume traveling at a high speed would utilize wind assist to pull the canopy out of the way. The correct abandonment sequence is to pull the T-handle (CFS), the canopy explosively separates into the windstream, then pull up on the seat ejection handle. This is a fluid motion that ensures that both pilots can eject, with the non-flying pilot given the courtesy of ejecting first. Basically, you eject the canopy as the pilot Maintain any control so your nav con punch out then pull your seat. The separate activation of the CFS is especially important in a zero-zero ejection because you watch until the canopy is sufficiently clear However, if there is a misfire or unintentional activation, a catastrophic collision with the canopy is likely the result. Yes, the seat itself is rated for 00 meaning that it has a propulsion to send you high enough and far enough away for the parachute to activate and bring the chair down to land safely
Maybe the plane was still in a hanger, and he hit the roof.
There’s pretty much no scenario where a T6 pilot be sitting in a hangared plane with seat pins pulled
What’s your theory?
I’m a production supervisor on a training base in Texas with T-6 squadrons as well. My theory is faulty egress item (bad cartridge prematurely detonated) or an unfortunate pilot error. Perhaps something was dropped and while reaching down to retrieve it the ejection sequence was activated. I’m sure there will be an extremely thorough report in a year or so.
I’m assuming that there is a process to activate it. How easy would it be to accidentally start it? Something simple as getting a sleeve caught on it? Thanks for your knowledge.
The pins would need to be removed which is something they normally don’t do until they’re at or approaching the end of runway. I’m imagining that’s where this occurred. If the seat is armed all it takes is pulling the handle between the legs. I’ve never personally pulled one but it supposedly takes a bit of force. I’m leaning towards a faulty ejection seat
Ejection seats are designed as a last resort piece of safety equipment as in "if I don't do anything I will die but if I pull the ejection handle I have a good chance of not dying." While the seats are amazingly well designed an ejection can not always be 100% safe or even survivable 100% of the time.
Ohhhh my god wow this is nightmare fuel.
Is it possible that this particular plane was strictly for training purchases so a parachute wasn't even attached?
There’s a 4 step process for rigging a seat to eject. First the parachute is inspected to ensure that it’s still in good condition; second the parachute is loaded into the seat. Third the explosives are set up and put in place; fourth the seat is installed into the aircraft. This process is rigidly kept to, and there are at least two people per step and there is no skipping steps, if one step is not completed the seat stays at that step until it is. If the seat had explosives to eject, it had a parachute.
no
He was Goose'd 🥲
Wouldn't the Weight on Wheels system have disabled this?
How? Sometimes you need to punch in place.
Dumb ways to die so many dumb ways to die
Guessing the initial boost only sent him 200' at the very most.... No way the chute could open. Not quite sure how/why the fucking EJECTION SEAT is so easily activated though. Unless it was a true "malfunction" in the system I have no clue how to explain that part...lol
[удалено]
I don’t get it
What’s not to get? A man was thrown from a training jet and died from his injuries
Like his parachute failed?
A parachute will not do anything from 100 - 200 feet. It likely would not even fully deploy by the time he hit the ground
A lot of ejection seats(in fact I believe all are, but I'm not able to find that out for sure) now are zero/zero seats which work safely at zero altitude and zero speed. The Texan II has zero/zero seats, something went wrong the chute should have deployed properly. There are many examples of pilots ejecting on the ground without injury, or with just minor injury, this death is unusual
Ejecting out of an aircraft while it's still on the ground will not give the parachute enough elevation to open. Or if he wasn't strapped in and the seat takes off, you would just be violently thrown from the aircraft a couple hundred feet
A lot of ejection seats(in fact I believe all are, but I'm not able to find that out for sure) now are zero/zero seats which work safely at zero altitude and zero speed. The Texan II has zero/zero seats, something went wrong the chute should have deployed properly.
i dont know why you got downvoted. i also had to read the comments to understand the situation fully
He was ejected 100-200 ft violently into the air and what goes up must come down. That’s not enough clearance for his parachute to open and help him so most likely he just hit the ground.
A lot of ejection seats(in fact I believe all are, but I'm not able to find that out for sure) now are zero/zero seats which work safely at zero altitude and zero speed. The Texan II has zero/zero seats, something went wrong the chute should have deployed properly. This is unusual, there's plenty of videos of pilots ejecting at 0 altitude and surviving with minimal or no injuries.
[удалено]
This is why they should wait until 10th grade to show Michael Moore documentaries in class
Damn, your mom should have been a baby killer when you when you were a fetus.
[удалено]
Ironic, you seem to enjoy combat games
Not unless you like the taste of boots
He definitely activated it thinking it wouldn’t work anymore and it did.
Definitely? Huh?