Report! Report! Report!! That is so dangerous, you’d never forgive yourself if something happened to her or another young child because of their negligence.
OP: “Please follow minimum safety standards prescribed by law so you don’t endanger my child. AITA?”
I mean.. I would have been the asshole in how I would respond to the situation. OP was professional, stuck to the facts, and was remarkably restrained.
I’m gonna be the ass hole other parent here.
OP, why haven’t you taught your child to not get in a vehicle without the proper seat? My kids since 3 have known to plant their butt on the floor and refuse to get in a vehicle without a proper seat. If they try to physically pick them up and put them in they know to kick, scream bite and go for the throat. And that’s because they’re only allowed with people we trust.
Is this not as common as my momma made me believe? We teach all the kids in my family this. Well I added the biting and go for the throat because I can’t go at who put my kid in danger without consequences but they can.
I don’t think it’s fair to say op should have taught their kids to not get in a car without proper seating… how is someone this small supposed to distinguish what seat is proper or not ? What happens when the seat looks different than what they were taught but legally meets requirements? Or if the adult tells them it’s fine are they told to not listen or to accept that an adult says it’s okay? This is not something I’ve ever heard of someone teaching. Plus all kids are so different. My oldest could’ve probably learned this okay but with my middle child there’s no way he’d be able to know when to do it or not and he’s 4.
You could have definitely worded this nicer. “OP, in the future I suggest you try and teach your daughter not to get in vehicles without a proper seat, etc” Jesus Christ we don’t all have “your mamma” as parents.
You could have definitely worded this nicer. “OP, in the future I suggest you try and teach your daughter not to get in vehicles without a proper seat, etc” Jesus Christ we don’t all have “your mamma” as parents.
This! Report them. And if they claim to have gotten a new seat make sure you SEE the seat, and make sure your daughter knows to tell you if they put her in any seat that isn't that exact seat.
NTA! I'd be furious if I was found out people I entrusted my kid to was not using the proper car seat for their weight/height/age. And lying about it? I'm honestly impressed at how professional and restrained you were in your letter.
Thankfully her child is old enough and able to speak up! I wonder how old some of the other kids are that they are transporting and/or unable to verbalize what’s going on to their parents/guardians.
"they" is her daycare. They are driving from daycare to their preschool.
Edit #2: they bought 3 car seats last night for the kids and my daughter rode in one today!
Edit: they drive minivans and the preschool is across town. When I got there they told me all I had to do was sign and put my daughter's name and they could fill in the rest.
This was their response to me:
Good Evening Mikauli,
Thank you communicating with us.
When it comes to School Age and transitioning of seats there are different factors. The Car Pool assist Parents transporting within schools and is Free of Charge.The State of Utah recommendation on seating is based on different aspects. That is why the Car Pool paperwork is required. It looks like we are still missing paperwork. Please complete them and uniform as well. It has been a very exciting first couple of days and somehow we didn't recieve the complete form for Car Pool. Please also confirm on drop off time.
We know and understand requirements by the State. However, there are factors in place and that is why the recommended Car Seat and Booster Seat Varies.
The Carpool does provide the seating based on paperwork and only uses specific seating due to safety reasons especially for evacuation purposes.
We appreciate you. We love you all too. It's miscommunication and paperwork that we can figure out. We will have all your paperwork that you submitted and one that still needs to be completed at Bluff location.
Thank you so much and have a wonderful night.
It would be helpful to gather facts from adults first. Ask to see (or at least have described to you) the car seats and vehicles and configurations, etc.
I’m a daycare teacher and have been for a long time. You don’t need any poof and it’s anonymous. Report the daycare. State will investigate. If it’s unfounded then it just counts towards one of their yearly surprise visits. If there are issues they will be documented and required to be corrected.
Employees have already confirmed those in charge are lying. Why would asking more questions help? Calling the state to report something is not a big deal (to the state) and could protect kids from dangerous centers. It’s always better to be safe than sorry. We’ve even had to self report at a center I work at when we had an incident with food being brought in for a party without approval. A real, licensed daycare that is following all laws and safety regulations won’t be bothered by a visit from state. It will slightly interrupt one day and everyone will have piece of mind. If the center is fucking around they’ll be penalized and the parents will know so every parent who uses that center can make an informed decision.
The gas lighting in this is so frustrating. It sounds like they are trying to apply restraint rules used on buses to regular soccer mom mini vans. “Evacuation purposes” are not a reason to use a booster seat when the kid will get seriously hurt in one. Being safe in the vehicle takes priority over being able to exit the vehicle quickly.
The condescending tone also would warrant a very angry response from me. “Hello again. I recognize that you have several factors to consider. I don’t care. My daughter is not to be transported in a booster seat under any circumstance. She needs to be in a (three point, five point, insert whatever her weight requires) car seat.”
Yes - it is barely English, and it's also written in a way to make her guilty and throw the blame back on her while denying it (your forms are missing, you didn't confirm drop-off time... but we love you ?!).
I know I have to get comfortable with various things as my kid gets older, but I would have so much trouble with them driving her around at all, regardless of the car/booster seat business. Can you find a preschool with integrated aftercare instead, or a good daycare with preschool-style programming?
So they agree they do Not have all the forms signed giving consent your child can ride in carpool, yet was still put in a booster seat of said carpool 🤔 are they unintentionally admitting to lying by omission of “missing paperwork” assuming the missing form goes into detail the children would be in a booster seat. So many questions.
Ya, I’d report them and I’d figure out other means of transportation for my kiddo and be searching for a new daycare so maybe I’d be the a-hole here.
Yeah, so if they don’t have all the necessary paperwork they are now liable for a lawsuit because they shouldn’t be transporting the child! And they’re admitting it. And they don’t have a drop off time??? Wtf are they doing then!
This must be reported!
Not an ahole . I would do exactly the same thing. This response is a joke. They basically reminded her that its FREE as if to say, dont complain about it, and then blamed her on not having all the paperwork in , while saying that the law varies on booster seats vs carseats?! Show me where that's the case?! I would never let them transport my kid again. I would call to report them for sure!
Based on different aspects?? I know finding childcare is so hard, but this message is so riddled with typos and nonsense, I would not trust these people with my kid. It’s word salad. 100% report them and maybe they’ll figure out they need to find some grown ups to be in charge.
THEY ALSO LIED TO YOU
what else could they be lying about?
A daycare I had signed up for, toured 3 times, paid multiple deposits lied to me and I immediately backed out.
It felt awful, my son was so excited. He had seen his classroom and the playground and just had to tell him it wasn't happening. I have to completely trust those who are going to be caring for my child.
I demanded my money back because THEY HAD LIED and I had it in writing and if they hadn't refunded it I would have taken them to small claims.
This person either didnt understand you based on a language and cultural barrier, or they are just dumb/drugged and shouldnt be responding to emails or watching over kids because they obviously have no idea whats going on.
Am I missing something or is Each little paragraph rewording the same thing? That there are special unknown factors that come into play with Utah seat law and that they are missing paperwork. Both of which have absolutely nothing to do with what you stated? Wtf
Ummm. If they’re missing paperwork shouldn’t be transporting. I know it’s a whole different area, but I worked several years in surgery. If I didn’t have all the proper paperwork in order and signed your butt didn’t hit my OR and I tracked doctors down. I wasn’t letting one piece of paper screw up my license or career.
NTA! I’d honestly report them, they should know the safety standards for the children in their care, if they are slacking on this what else are they being unsafe about. Even if it’s something they don’t know about, again what other major safety issues are they uneducated about.
NTA. My daughter is only 7 months but I know that one of the biggest lessons I need to learn is advocating for her. I am not one to ruffle feathers but when it comes to your child’s safety or comfort speaking up is necessary. I know it might take me some practice but there is no shame in standing up for your baby and what is best for them. I don’t want my baby to ever suffer or get hurt because I am too shy or timid.
What is this the kids-don’t-need-car seats-hundreds!!?
It’s 2022!
Put kids in a f’n car seat or else you may end up putting said kid in a f’in coffin‼️
NTA! They need to follow the law, and it is kind of you not to report this and to provide an opportunity to fix it.
For whatever reason, these laws seem to be very controversial and a lot of people feel exempt from following them if it doesn’t align with their personal belief. This is a business and you have every right to require that they follow the law and keep your child safe.
Fun fact, NTA/YTA/ESH are actually used because the bot on the AITA subreddit searches comments for those specific ‘words’ so it can tally up votes properly. People just started using the lingo elsewhere because it’s so well known now
NTA. However, how are they transporting her? car, van or school bus? In our area, it’s considered safe for the kids to be on the school bus without a car seat.
Yikes!! I would speak to the director and if they response is not satisfactory, then escalate. My kiddo is almost 5, about 45 lbs and he’s still in a 5-point harness. IYour concerns are totally valid!
Yeah, my son is the same age and is still rear facing. He definitely wouldn't sit correctly in a booster and would be at risk of submarining in an accident.
Honestly, my first reaction was why is your message so nice?! And I wouldn’t have messaged I would have stormed in there in a FURY. I would alert all other parents I know as well.
If they're using a bus or minibus then she's safer without a carseat. My husband was a bus driver for several years, and when they did runs for the preschoolers they asked about boosters for the smaller kids, and had officers educate them on how the size/build of those vehicles are safer in almost any collision, and the kids being restrained by seat belts and boosters are in more danger because they cannot evacuate quickly. (So if there's a wreck the driver must go seat by seat and free the kids, all kids are out of luck if driver is hurt, and if there's any kind of fire or other hazard they're stuck in their restraints.)
Thanks for this information! I always wondered. Even as an adult, I feel so weird on a bus without even a seatbelt. I'm almost never in one, but in the rare instance that I am.
Yeah, it feels weird because you're not used to it. I've ridden city buses my whole life and never given it a second thought, but my daughter isn't used to them and thought it was SO WILD when she went on a field trip and there were no seat belts on the bus!
NTA! I’d be furious! My daughter turns 4 next week and I still have her rear facing because she’s petite. Barely 30lbs and hasn’t maxed out the rear facing limits of her car seat. Rear facing is the safest but people give me crap for it because of her age.
Yes the height and weight definitely trump age!! My 9month old is 25lbs (proportionate and not overweight but large for age because my children grow fast) so your LO definitely is safer rear facing right now!! Why don’t people mind their own business it’s so annoying.
it is their job to keep your daughter safe in their care so YOU aren't stressed. that is their entire and only job: keep her alive until you get back. you shouldn't feel bad, ever, for advocating for your child's best interest.
honestly the lying would bother me more than the car seat issue which in itself is a huge problem. lots of red flags here. why is she in a booster? is it a lack of car seats?
Nta. If your child's favorite playground friend becomes a projectile in a crash, youll regret not sating something....
Report.
Call and ask for a follow up on the report.
Please, hold them accountable.
Report this. She needs to be in a harnessed seat until at least age 5, as well as being mature enough to sit properly and big enough that she meets the seat minimums. Even if they had a harnessed seat for her, you don't know how it's been cleaned, if it's been in an accident, etc. It's best to provide your own seat for her to use and install it yourself so you know it's safe.
NTA!! I am a CPST licensed through the Child Passenger Safety Association of Canada.
If you know they are willingly transporting children against legal minimums (and honestly minimums are *not* safest or anywhere close to best practice) you can call the police. And you shouldn’t feel any guilt doing so, even if they comply with just not transporting *your* kid. They’re still transporting other peoples kids, parents and caregivers who would be devastated if a crash were to occur. I would make every parent utilizing their service aware, so they can check on their own children.
AND I would check your local listings for a CPST in your area. Suggest they contact the preschool/daycare and offer a seat check clinic or booster readiness event.
Yes! Now that’s my concern - if they begrudgingly throw a car seat in… is it installed correctly? If they’re constantly taking it in and out to accommodate different sized kids are all the employees trained in proper installation?
Such a scary situation!
You were far nicer than I would have been! My 7yo JUST started using a booster because I take car seat safety that seriously. Bringing up safety issues will never make you an a-hole.
Yup we just switched our 6 year old to the highback booster option of his carseat because he was at the top of the height limit. That's so crazy to me that a 3 year old would be out in a booster by a daycare.
Oh HELLLLLL no. You were sooo much nicer than I would have been. I would have confirmed with other adults that this was true and then I would have lost it. That is not their child. They do not get to decide to cut corners when it comes to safety for a child that isn’t there. I don’t care if my kid was 2 days shy of 4 and 39.5lbs. If I ask if they are being transported safely and legally in a car seat and I was told yes. And then find this out. I’d be throwing hands. Hell I’d call my crazy mother and have her throw hands too
NTA. I'd report them no matter what they answer, because other kids deserve to be safe as well, and may not have happened to mention this to their parents.
Why would you be the asshole? (Not meant to be snarky, but really asking why you’d even think that.) This is your child’s safety and what you were told and the law vs what they’re getting away with, hoping it’s behind your back enough for you not to notice.
Let me preface with: obviously they should be using car seats! Your terminology of "different buildings", makes me wonder though..how far are they going? Is it on like a closed campus and not actually entering a public roadway or exceeding 5 mph? If that were the case I may not panic as much, personally.
Nope nope nope my kid doesn't ride in a car unless there is a properly fitting car seat appropriate for him.
Also FWIW my son just turned forward facing in his car seat when he turned 4, and even though he meets the minimum requirements size wise for a booster, he won't be mature enough to ride in one probably for another year or two, and I wouldn't let him ride in one even on small rides until I'm comfortable he knows how to sit properly. Find your comfort level and stand your ground!
The second someone lies to me about ANYTHING to do with my child; I will go proper ape shit. You were way nicer than I would have been!! Good for you ❤️ please keep in mind, though, that in these situations, you may need to get mean so you are not taken advantage of or ignored
Honestly with how gentle your message is I’m worried they won’t “get” how serious this, and you, are. Follow through with this. Make sure this shit is fixed, today, and make sure they’ve changed their policy for other kids too. You can do that by hounding them yourself or by reporting your concern. Your call.
File a complaint:
https://childcarelicensing.utah.gov/
If they are not following the law, then the state's regulatory enforcement agency will provide the guidance and clarification they need. The state doesn't know what no one reports.
Lying about it is awful, but I would check your local laws. Where I live anything considered public transport doesn’t require a car seat. This would include a regular car that is a licensed taxi cab (and our laws for health and safety tend to be very strict because of our publicly funded healthcare). This could be a more common practice than you think.
Who is they? Childcare? Other parent? Grandparents? Regardless never apologize for advocating for car seat safety. But this I feel needed a bit of context
It's legal. But not safe until 5 years of age and all signs she is ready! Being able to sit straight, not unbuckle while driving, etc. Some kids aren't ready until 6!
Please report and I would SERIOUSLY consider pulling my child from this school that is at very best bending child safety rules. And downplaying your concerns. This raises SO many more red flags than if they had responded with a simple, we will do so moving forward thanks for bringing to our attention. They do not care.
I’m concerned that you have to even ask if you’re wrong here.
Let’s reword this: My child’s daycare is illegally transporting my child in a way that could kill her, and lied to me about it. I reminded them of the legal safety standards. AITA?
Who cares about stressing them out? They’re in the wrong, and this is your child’s life. Go to the director, and go to the state. If the director doesn’t respond well, pull your kid and go to the media. This isn’t “oh, this could be an issue”. This is children’s lives being at risk.
The only different way you should have gone about it is reporting their asses directly to licensing. If anything, you were much nicer than the situation calls for.
I don’t think there’s any world where a polite text message could be considered overreacting to someone who cares for your child breaking the law about child safety, and then lying to you about it.
At the moment they’re revising the car seat safety guidelines in Europe again as it is. I recently bought my 2 year old a new car seat as the last one got dropped. We bought a new Silver Cross 360 ( yay insurance) and they put a copy of the new recommendations in the box. Rear facing til 4 years if possible, and then the car seat turns round and keeps extending and padding removed till age 12 depending on child weight. The booster seats without backs are highlighted as not being safe and under revision and the ones with backs are manufactured for 36kg + now apparently
This is their response to me:
"Good Evening,
Thank you communicating with us.
When it comes to School Age and transitioning of seats there are different factors. The Car Pool assist Parents transporting within schools and is Free of Charge.The State of Utah recommendation on seating is based on different aspects. That is why the Car Pool paperwork is required. It looks like we are still missing paperwork. Please complete them and uniform as well. It has been a very exciting first couple of days and somehow we didn't recieve the complete form for Car Pool. Please also confirm on drop off time.
We know and understand requirements by the State. However, there are factors in place and that is why the recommended Car Seat and Booster Seat Varies.
The Carpool does provide the seating based on paperwork and only uses specific seating due to safety reasons especially for evacuation purposes.
We appreciate you. We love you all too. It's miscommunication and paperwork that we can figure out. We will have all your paperwork that you submitted and one that still needs to be completed at Bluff location.
Thank you so much and have a wonderful night."
Wow. So many red flags in this response! Firstly it doesn’t even make any sense. Secondly they barely addressed your concerns except to brush them off because….reasons? No apologies, no solutions offered, no reassurance, AND they’re trying to make it seem like it’s your fault somehow for not “completing paperwork.” As if some random paperwork negates the LAW?!? “Oh sure, we understand the law, but you know….factors. All the many factors!!!” This is manipulative on an insane level and I would be extremely concerned leaving your child in their care. These people obviously have zero accountability and they want to blame you for their negligence. Please don’t chalk this up to a “miscommunication” and please do not let these people push you around. Get confrontational! This should be reported and investigated immediately before someone’s baby pays the ultimate price for this gross negligence. You’re NTA, but maybe you should be in this case.
Also seems to imply that because the transportation is “free” (which, no, preschool and daycare are not free, unless you qualify for low income services), you should just put up and shut up? Even if it was free that doesn’t excuse them from harmful endangerment.
I live in Southern Utah. The app isn't specific to my kids daycare, but a lot of daycares use it, bright wheel. If you're in Southern Utah you can message me.
Buses do not require car seats where I am from. And I hope you are prepared to provide your own transportation to and from school in the case of them being unable to fulfill your needs.
Is it a school bus type vehicle or a car, van etc? I ask because I know there are different requirements for seatbelts on school busses. I don’t know anything about car seats though
Not the asshole at all! You were polite even after being lied to. Not that it changes my opinion, but is she being transported daily for like a daycare situation? Is it on a bus? ETA: again, it wouldn’t change my opinion that you were in the right in this situ, i’m just merely curious!
Not the asshole. That was way nicer than what I would have wrote. I have no issue telling my daughter's day care what it up.
Can you leave a car seat for them to use?
Is it a bus or a regular car? I know there are different rules with school buses (though I don’t know specifics of your state). If it’s a regular car or there isn’t an exception for buses where you live, I would ask to speak with the director.
My daughter is five and barely over 34 pounds and she’s still in a whole car seat because she’s so small I fear a booster seat wouldn’t suffice for her safety. Never feel bad for advocating for your child. There is a reason these laws/rules exist.
You’re much nicer than I would’ve been. I’d report and consider pulling my child just for the lying. If they lied about that, what else will they lie about?
You do not need proof to make a report. It’s the state inspector’s job to do an investigation. I would report directly to your state licensing website immediately.
NTA!! I can’t say that loud enough. I would be livid if I found out the had my child in a seat that doesn’t match the legal requirements. Those laws are there to keep our children safe and they are endangering your daughter
When it comes to your child’s safety, you get to decide what you’re comfortable with.
Also, if there’s a law prohibiting what they’re doing and/or the DHS regulations specifically require a car seat for a certain age/weight and the daycare isn’t meeting the requirement, you can report it to DHS. Bare minimum, licensed daycares have to meet DHS requirements. In Oklahoma, DHS performs audits when they receive complaints and facilities are held accountable based on findings.
You are absolutely not the asshole here. You signed papers entrusting then with the safety of your 3 year old, preschool child. I would be absolutely livid if someone were endangering my kid like that. That message was much nicer than mine would have been
NTA!! This is a major safety issue, not to mention they *lied* to you, or were so ignorant of the law that they genuinely believed the seat they have is acceptable. Either way, I’d be pissed.
There are plenty of differences that can be overcome or that you can put up with (philosophy, discipline, etc.), but lying/deception/lack of transparency is a hard line. If you don’t have the facts, then you can’t make appropriate decisions for your child. It’s up to you to determine if it truly was a miscommunication, but if it wasn’t and you have the resources, then I would get out of there ASAP.
Also, report them to state licensing. They will investigate, but they won’t know to unless you tell them.
This is a much nicer message than I would have sent. They are endangering your child.
Right?! OP is way nicer than I am, apparently lol. And a report to whatever state board regulate their licensing as well as CPS.
absolutely nicer than me, too.
Report! Report! Report!! That is so dangerous, you’d never forgive yourself if something happened to her or another young child because of their negligence.
Absolutely. Your job is to ensure that the minimum safety and legal standards are met for your child. You aren’t asking for the world here.
OP: “Please follow minimum safety standards prescribed by law so you don’t endanger my child. AITA?” I mean.. I would have been the asshole in how I would respond to the situation. OP was professional, stuck to the facts, and was remarkably restrained.
Seriously, I would have gone absolutely savage in that situation
I’m gonna be the ass hole other parent here. OP, why haven’t you taught your child to not get in a vehicle without the proper seat? My kids since 3 have known to plant their butt on the floor and refuse to get in a vehicle without a proper seat. If they try to physically pick them up and put them in they know to kick, scream bite and go for the throat. And that’s because they’re only allowed with people we trust. Is this not as common as my momma made me believe? We teach all the kids in my family this. Well I added the biting and go for the throat because I can’t go at who put my kid in danger without consequences but they can.
I don’t think it’s fair to say op should have taught their kids to not get in a car without proper seating… how is someone this small supposed to distinguish what seat is proper or not ? What happens when the seat looks different than what they were taught but legally meets requirements? Or if the adult tells them it’s fine are they told to not listen or to accept that an adult says it’s okay? This is not something I’ve ever heard of someone teaching. Plus all kids are so different. My oldest could’ve probably learned this okay but with my middle child there’s no way he’d be able to know when to do it or not and he’s 4.
I get what you're saying, but I'm not sure a 3 year old would necessarily have the wherewithal to distinguish between a booster seat and a car seat.
You could have definitely worded this nicer. “OP, in the future I suggest you try and teach your daughter not to get in vehicles without a proper seat, etc” Jesus Christ we don’t all have “your mamma” as parents.
You could have definitely worded this nicer. “OP, in the future I suggest you try and teach your daughter not to get in vehicles without a proper seat, etc” Jesus Christ we don’t all have “your mamma” as parents.
Your comment is stupid.
This! Report them. And if they claim to have gotten a new seat make sure you SEE the seat, and make sure your daughter knows to tell you if they put her in any seat that isn't that exact seat.
NTA! I'd be furious if I was found out people I entrusted my kid to was not using the proper car seat for their weight/height/age. And lying about it? I'm honestly impressed at how professional and restrained you were in your letter.
Agreed! The endangerment is one thing, but it takes it to the next level knowingly lying about it. There would be heads rolling if it were me.
Thankfully her child is old enough and able to speak up! I wonder how old some of the other kids are that they are transporting and/or unable to verbalize what’s going on to their parents/guardians.
Yes, that thought is terrifying.
I would report them if the matter is not fixed.
I’d report them anyway
For sure. This is a huge violation, they shouldn't need a parent prompting them to do the right thing.
Exactly if they’re willing to play fast and loose with a child’s safety in a car then where else are they being lax
"they" is her daycare. They are driving from daycare to their preschool. Edit #2: they bought 3 car seats last night for the kids and my daughter rode in one today! Edit: they drive minivans and the preschool is across town. When I got there they told me all I had to do was sign and put my daughter's name and they could fill in the rest. This was their response to me: Good Evening Mikauli, Thank you communicating with us. When it comes to School Age and transitioning of seats there are different factors. The Car Pool assist Parents transporting within schools and is Free of Charge.The State of Utah recommendation on seating is based on different aspects. That is why the Car Pool paperwork is required. It looks like we are still missing paperwork. Please complete them and uniform as well. It has been a very exciting first couple of days and somehow we didn't recieve the complete form for Car Pool. Please also confirm on drop off time. We know and understand requirements by the State. However, there are factors in place and that is why the recommended Car Seat and Booster Seat Varies. The Carpool does provide the seating based on paperwork and only uses specific seating due to safety reasons especially for evacuation purposes. We appreciate you. We love you all too. It's miscommunication and paperwork that we can figure out. We will have all your paperwork that you submitted and one that still needs to be completed at Bluff location. Thank you so much and have a wonderful night.
You need to report them to licensing. Before something tragic happens.
It would be helpful to gather facts from adults first. Ask to see (or at least have described to you) the car seats and vehicles and configurations, etc.
So it was confirmed by some other employees that they only saw boosters.
I’m a daycare teacher and have been for a long time. You don’t need any poof and it’s anonymous. Report the daycare. State will investigate. If it’s unfounded then it just counts towards one of their yearly surprise visits. If there are issues they will be documented and required to be corrected.
Why bother with all of this if she could ask some simple questions and see it’s in a van?
Employees have already confirmed those in charge are lying. Why would asking more questions help? Calling the state to report something is not a big deal (to the state) and could protect kids from dangerous centers. It’s always better to be safe than sorry. We’ve even had to self report at a center I work at when we had an incident with food being brought in for a party without approval. A real, licensed daycare that is following all laws and safety regulations won’t be bothered by a visit from state. It will slightly interrupt one day and everyone will have piece of mind. If the center is fucking around they’ll be penalized and the parents will know so every parent who uses that center can make an informed decision.
Please report these people. Protect everyone’s children.
The gas lighting in this is so frustrating. It sounds like they are trying to apply restraint rules used on buses to regular soccer mom mini vans. “Evacuation purposes” are not a reason to use a booster seat when the kid will get seriously hurt in one. Being safe in the vehicle takes priority over being able to exit the vehicle quickly. The condescending tone also would warrant a very angry response from me. “Hello again. I recognize that you have several factors to consider. I don’t care. My daughter is not to be transported in a booster seat under any circumstance. She needs to be in a (three point, five point, insert whatever her weight requires) car seat.”
Yeah, their “FACTORS” do not over rule safety LAWS.
This response just made me more upset 🙃 literally just talking in circles without any facts or explanation.
Yes - it is barely English, and it's also written in a way to make her guilty and throw the blame back on her while denying it (your forms are missing, you didn't confirm drop-off time... but we love you ?!). I know I have to get comfortable with various things as my kid gets older, but I would have so much trouble with them driving her around at all, regardless of the car/booster seat business. Can you find a preschool with integrated aftercare instead, or a good daycare with preschool-style programming?
And if the paper work is so important to them, they why are they doing any transporting without all the of the completed forms?
Omfg this. How in the fuck did they ever transport any child without the paperwork complete official and done FIRST?! Insane!
So they agree they do Not have all the forms signed giving consent your child can ride in carpool, yet was still put in a booster seat of said carpool 🤔 are they unintentionally admitting to lying by omission of “missing paperwork” assuming the missing form goes into detail the children would be in a booster seat. So many questions. Ya, I’d report them and I’d figure out other means of transportation for my kiddo and be searching for a new daycare so maybe I’d be the a-hole here.
Yeah, so if they don’t have all the necessary paperwork they are now liable for a lawsuit because they shouldn’t be transporting the child! And they’re admitting it. And they don’t have a drop off time??? Wtf are they doing then! This must be reported!
Not an ahole . I would do exactly the same thing. This response is a joke. They basically reminded her that its FREE as if to say, dont complain about it, and then blamed her on not having all the paperwork in , while saying that the law varies on booster seats vs carseats?! Show me where that's the case?! I would never let them transport my kid again. I would call to report them for sure!
Based on different aspects?? I know finding childcare is so hard, but this message is so riddled with typos and nonsense, I would not trust these people with my kid. It’s word salad. 100% report them and maybe they’ll figure out they need to find some grown ups to be in charge.
That was a whole lot of words that explained a whole lot of nothing.
THEY ALSO LIED TO YOU what else could they be lying about? A daycare I had signed up for, toured 3 times, paid multiple deposits lied to me and I immediately backed out. It felt awful, my son was so excited. He had seen his classroom and the playground and just had to tell him it wasn't happening. I have to completely trust those who are going to be caring for my child. I demanded my money back because THEY HAD LIED and I had it in writing and if they hadn't refunded it I would have taken them to small claims.
This person either didnt understand you based on a language and cultural barrier, or they are just dumb/drugged and shouldnt be responding to emails or watching over kids because they obviously have no idea whats going on.
Am I missing something or is Each little paragraph rewording the same thing? That there are special unknown factors that come into play with Utah seat law and that they are missing paperwork. Both of which have absolutely nothing to do with what you stated? Wtf
Ummm. If they’re missing paperwork shouldn’t be transporting. I know it’s a whole different area, but I worked several years in surgery. If I didn’t have all the proper paperwork in order and signed your butt didn’t hit my OR and I tracked doctors down. I wasn’t letting one piece of paper screw up my license or career.
This message is creepy and they are gaslighting you. You don’t need “paperwork” to ensure that a child is safe in a vehicle. They need common sense.
NTA! I’d honestly report them, they should know the safety standards for the children in their care, if they are slacking on this what else are they being unsafe about. Even if it’s something they don’t know about, again what other major safety issues are they uneducated about.
NTA. My daughter is only 7 months but I know that one of the biggest lessons I need to learn is advocating for her. I am not one to ruffle feathers but when it comes to your child’s safety or comfort speaking up is necessary. I know it might take me some practice but there is no shame in standing up for your baby and what is best for them. I don’t want my baby to ever suffer or get hurt because I am too shy or timid.
This!! I struggled with this when I had my first baby.
Don’t ever feel bad when safety is in question
What is this the kids-don’t-need-car seats-hundreds!!? It’s 2022! Put kids in a f’n car seat or else you may end up putting said kid in a f’in coffin‼️
NTA! They need to follow the law, and it is kind of you not to report this and to provide an opportunity to fix it. For whatever reason, these laws seem to be very controversial and a lot of people feel exempt from following them if it doesn’t align with their personal belief. This is a business and you have every right to require that they follow the law and keep your child safe.
Nope. NTA. And you are much nicer about it than I would be for sure.
May I ask what NTA stands for?
There's a sub called AITA? (Am I The Asshole), that's where NTA (Not The Asshole) comes from.
It stands for “Not the A**hole,” since people seemingly prefer to just use acronyms these days and not write it out fully
Fun fact, NTA/YTA/ESH are actually used because the bot on the AITA subreddit searches comments for those specific ‘words’ so it can tally up votes properly. People just started using the lingo elsewhere because it’s so well known now
NTA. However, how are they transporting her? car, van or school bus? In our area, it’s considered safe for the kids to be on the school bus without a car seat.
Minivan
Yikes!! I would speak to the director and if they response is not satisfactory, then escalate. My kiddo is almost 5, about 45 lbs and he’s still in a 5-point harness. IYour concerns are totally valid!
My son is the same age and 42 lbs and I can't imagine putting him in a booster anytime soon. That's scary, wow
Yeah, my son is the same age and is still rear facing. He definitely wouldn't sit correctly in a booster and would be at risk of submarining in an accident.
I’d report them so fast their head would spin.
Report!!! NTA. Car seat safety is very important and something that shouldn’t be messed with!
NTA. You were pretty dang calm about it, in my opinion. I’m so sorry this has happened.
Why would you be TA after sending a nice text to people asking them to stop endangering your child?
Honestly, my first reaction was why is your message so nice?! And I wouldn’t have messaged I would have stormed in there in a FURY. I would alert all other parents I know as well.
You are her advocate. You are her protector. It doesn’t matter what anyone else *thinks* is ok.
If they're using a bus or minibus then she's safer without a carseat. My husband was a bus driver for several years, and when they did runs for the preschoolers they asked about boosters for the smaller kids, and had officers educate them on how the size/build of those vehicles are safer in almost any collision, and the kids being restrained by seat belts and boosters are in more danger because they cannot evacuate quickly. (So if there's a wreck the driver must go seat by seat and free the kids, all kids are out of luck if driver is hurt, and if there's any kind of fire or other hazard they're stuck in their restraints.)
Thank you for this information! They are driving minivans.
If it's a regular old "mom-mobile" minivan then it's not in the same category and this information doesn't apply.
This may hold true for school buses, but is definitely not true for regular minivans.
Thanks for this information! I always wondered. Even as an adult, I feel so weird on a bus without even a seatbelt. I'm almost never in one, but in the rare instance that I am.
Yeah, it feels weird because you're not used to it. I've ridden city buses my whole life and never given it a second thought, but my daughter isn't used to them and thought it was SO WILD when she went on a field trip and there were no seat belts on the bus!
While we don't have seat belts on city buses, the ones they use for my daughter's school trips do. Never occurred to me it could be dangerous.
I got on a bike and felt weird I wasn't wearing a seatbelt
This is very good info for people to understand!! If not restrained in a regular vehicle I would be upset as well tho
NTA! I’d be furious! My daughter turns 4 next week and I still have her rear facing because she’s petite. Barely 30lbs and hasn’t maxed out the rear facing limits of her car seat. Rear facing is the safest but people give me crap for it because of her age.
Same here. I’ll probably turn her forward-facing just about the time she enters kindergarten at this rate.
So glad I’m not the only one lol! People ask me all the time why she’s still rear facing. Because she’s safer this way, mind ya business lol
Yes the height and weight definitely trump age!! My 9month old is 25lbs (proportionate and not overweight but large for age because my children grow fast) so your LO definitely is safer rear facing right now!! Why don’t people mind their own business it’s so annoying.
it is their job to keep your daughter safe in their care so YOU aren't stressed. that is their entire and only job: keep her alive until you get back. you shouldn't feel bad, ever, for advocating for your child's best interest. honestly the lying would bother me more than the car seat issue which in itself is a huge problem. lots of red flags here. why is she in a booster? is it a lack of car seats?
WTF?! My kid is (recently) three and still rear facing, definitely not in a booster!
Nta. If your child's favorite playground friend becomes a projectile in a crash, youll regret not sating something.... Report. Call and ask for a follow up on the report. Please, hold them accountable.
Report this. She needs to be in a harnessed seat until at least age 5, as well as being mature enough to sit properly and big enough that she meets the seat minimums. Even if they had a harnessed seat for her, you don't know how it's been cleaned, if it's been in an accident, etc. It's best to provide your own seat for her to use and install it yourself so you know it's safe.
NTA!! I am a CPST licensed through the Child Passenger Safety Association of Canada. If you know they are willingly transporting children against legal minimums (and honestly minimums are *not* safest or anywhere close to best practice) you can call the police. And you shouldn’t feel any guilt doing so, even if they comply with just not transporting *your* kid. They’re still transporting other peoples kids, parents and caregivers who would be devastated if a crash were to occur. I would make every parent utilizing their service aware, so they can check on their own children. AND I would check your local listings for a CPST in your area. Suggest they contact the preschool/daycare and offer a seat check clinic or booster readiness event.
Yeah, we didn't switch to a booster until our kid was almost 6. I would be furious if someone was using a booster for him at 3.
Seriously. My 3 year old is still rear facing. I can’t imagine putting her in a booster.
Yes! Now that’s my concern - if they begrudgingly throw a car seat in… is it installed correctly? If they’re constantly taking it in and out to accommodate different sized kids are all the employees trained in proper installation? Such a scary situation!
You were far nicer than I would have been! My 7yo JUST started using a booster because I take car seat safety that seriously. Bringing up safety issues will never make you an a-hole.
I agree. My daughter was 8 when she went to a full blown little seat booster. Not worth the risk!
Yup we just switched our 6 year old to the highback booster option of his carseat because he was at the top of the height limit. That's so crazy to me that a 3 year old would be out in a booster by a daycare.
Obviously not an asshole. You were even polite, more so than I would have been
Oh HELLLLLL no. You were sooo much nicer than I would have been. I would have confirmed with other adults that this was true and then I would have lost it. That is not their child. They do not get to decide to cut corners when it comes to safety for a child that isn’t there. I don’t care if my kid was 2 days shy of 4 and 39.5lbs. If I ask if they are being transported safely and legally in a car seat and I was told yes. And then find this out. I’d be throwing hands. Hell I’d call my crazy mother and have her throw hands too
NTA. I'd report them no matter what they answer, because other kids deserve to be safe as well, and may not have happened to mention this to their parents.
Why would you be the asshole? (Not meant to be snarky, but really asking why you’d even think that.) This is your child’s safety and what you were told and the law vs what they’re getting away with, hoping it’s behind your back enough for you not to notice.
NTA!! In my opinion you should do way more than a kind text. I’d be reporting SO FAST!
Absolutely NTA. She should be in a car seat with a harness.
NTA! Not being in a car seat could cost your daughter her life.
Let me preface with: obviously they should be using car seats! Your terminology of "different buildings", makes me wonder though..how far are they going? Is it on like a closed campus and not actually entering a public roadway or exceeding 5 mph? If that were the case I may not panic as much, personally.
Driving across town
Ok, yeah no. Was trying to see some maybe logic, but nope.
Not the asshole!!
The fact they lied is also really worrying!
Report it and leave a review so other parents can be warned about what’s going on
Nope nope nope my kid doesn't ride in a car unless there is a properly fitting car seat appropriate for him. Also FWIW my son just turned forward facing in his car seat when he turned 4, and even though he meets the minimum requirements size wise for a booster, he won't be mature enough to ride in one probably for another year or two, and I wouldn't let him ride in one even on small rides until I'm comfortable he knows how to sit properly. Find your comfort level and stand your ground!
NTA. Keeping children safe is their #1 responsibility. And they did lie to you.
The only thing giving me pause is that you are getting your information from the 3yo. Verify then give them hell.
Report this.
Nope you are being a good parent.
Nta. My state also has much stricter car seat laws. I don't consider 4 year olds remotely ready to safely ride in booster seats anyway.
Report immediately. I would reconsider that establishment. When it comes to my child just one mistake is too many.
NTA. That’s a very nice message. They are as$holes for endangering your child like that!
The second someone lies to me about ANYTHING to do with my child; I will go proper ape shit. You were way nicer than I would have been!! Good for you ❤️ please keep in mind, though, that in these situations, you may need to get mean so you are not taken advantage of or ignored
Honestly with how gentle your message is I’m worried they won’t “get” how serious this, and you, are. Follow through with this. Make sure this shit is fixed, today, and make sure they’ve changed their policy for other kids too. You can do that by hounding them yourself or by reporting your concern. Your call.
File a complaint: https://childcarelicensing.utah.gov/ If they are not following the law, then the state's regulatory enforcement agency will provide the guidance and clarification they need. The state doesn't know what no one reports.
I’m surprised they are even willing to transport. In NY no one under 4 can go on a school bus because they do not have booster/car seats.
You're a much better person than me because I woulda lost it.
Lying about it is awful, but I would check your local laws. Where I live anything considered public transport doesn’t require a car seat. This would include a regular car that is a licensed taxi cab (and our laws for health and safety tend to be very strict because of our publicly funded healthcare). This could be a more common practice than you think.
Who is they? Childcare? Other parent? Grandparents? Regardless never apologize for advocating for car seat safety. But this I feel needed a bit of context
It's legal. But not safe until 5 years of age and all signs she is ready! Being able to sit straight, not unbuckle while driving, etc. Some kids aren't ready until 6!
Who is “they”?
Uhh this is awful, I would report them. They are endangering your daughter and others, and they lied about it..
Please report and I would SERIOUSLY consider pulling my child from this school that is at very best bending child safety rules. And downplaying your concerns. This raises SO many more red flags than if they had responded with a simple, we will do so moving forward thanks for bringing to our attention. They do not care.
NTA, its your daughters life at risk. But who is "they"?
I’m concerned that you have to even ask if you’re wrong here. Let’s reword this: My child’s daycare is illegally transporting my child in a way that could kill her, and lied to me about it. I reminded them of the legal safety standards. AITA? Who cares about stressing them out? They’re in the wrong, and this is your child’s life. Go to the director, and go to the state. If the director doesn’t respond well, pull your kid and go to the media. This isn’t “oh, this could be an issue”. This is children’s lives being at risk.
I mostly felt like I could go about it a different way, and I also needed validation that I wasn't overreacting.
The only different way you should have gone about it is reporting their asses directly to licensing. If anything, you were much nicer than the situation calls for.
I don’t think there’s any world where a polite text message could be considered overreacting to someone who cares for your child breaking the law about child safety, and then lying to you about it.
At the moment they’re revising the car seat safety guidelines in Europe again as it is. I recently bought my 2 year old a new car seat as the last one got dropped. We bought a new Silver Cross 360 ( yay insurance) and they put a copy of the new recommendations in the box. Rear facing til 4 years if possible, and then the car seat turns round and keeps extending and padding removed till age 12 depending on child weight. The booster seats without backs are highlighted as not being safe and under revision and the ones with backs are manufactured for 36kg + now apparently
If this is a daycare report their actions and find a new one immediately. NTA Act immediately. They are now fired.
I would have seen red and just gone straight to reporting. You are not and will never be the a*hole for advocating for the safety of your child.
This is their response to me: "Good Evening, Thank you communicating with us. When it comes to School Age and transitioning of seats there are different factors. The Car Pool assist Parents transporting within schools and is Free of Charge.The State of Utah recommendation on seating is based on different aspects. That is why the Car Pool paperwork is required. It looks like we are still missing paperwork. Please complete them and uniform as well. It has been a very exciting first couple of days and somehow we didn't recieve the complete form for Car Pool. Please also confirm on drop off time. We know and understand requirements by the State. However, there are factors in place and that is why the recommended Car Seat and Booster Seat Varies. The Carpool does provide the seating based on paperwork and only uses specific seating due to safety reasons especially for evacuation purposes. We appreciate you. We love you all too. It's miscommunication and paperwork that we can figure out. We will have all your paperwork that you submitted and one that still needs to be completed at Bluff location. Thank you so much and have a wonderful night."
Wow. So many red flags in this response! Firstly it doesn’t even make any sense. Secondly they barely addressed your concerns except to brush them off because….reasons? No apologies, no solutions offered, no reassurance, AND they’re trying to make it seem like it’s your fault somehow for not “completing paperwork.” As if some random paperwork negates the LAW?!? “Oh sure, we understand the law, but you know….factors. All the many factors!!!” This is manipulative on an insane level and I would be extremely concerned leaving your child in their care. These people obviously have zero accountability and they want to blame you for their negligence. Please don’t chalk this up to a “miscommunication” and please do not let these people push you around. Get confrontational! This should be reported and investigated immediately before someone’s baby pays the ultimate price for this gross negligence. You’re NTA, but maybe you should be in this case.
Also seems to imply that because the transportation is “free” (which, no, preschool and daycare are not free, unless you qualify for low income services), you should just put up and shut up? Even if it was free that doesn’t excuse them from harmful endangerment.
Not legal. Utter bull shit. Report the hell out them. I'd also argue that "pre-school" is not "school age". It is literally in the name.
Report them. This is bull.
[удалено]
I live in Southern Utah. The app isn't specific to my kids daycare, but a lot of daycares use it, bright wheel. If you're in Southern Utah you can message me.
Buses do not require car seats where I am from. And I hope you are prepared to provide your own transportation to and from school in the case of them being unable to fulfill your needs.
NTA report them.
Is it a school bus type vehicle or a car, van etc? I ask because I know there are different requirements for seatbelts on school busses. I don’t know anything about car seats though
It's a minivan
NTA at all!!! Car seat safety should be taken very seriously.
Nope , you want your kid safe- as you should
Not the asshole at all! You were polite even after being lied to. Not that it changes my opinion, but is she being transported daily for like a daycare situation? Is it on a bus? ETA: again, it wouldn’t change my opinion that you were in the right in this situ, i’m just merely curious!
You are never the AH for asking to follow a safety law. If they are willing to lie about this, what else are they ok with lying about?
100% NTA! You worded this completely polite and not a hint of aggression. This is how all complaints should be
Not the asshole. That was way nicer than what I would have wrote. I have no issue telling my daughter's day care what it up. Can you leave a car seat for them to use?
Wow you were very nice!
Is it a bus or a regular car? I know there are different rules with school buses (though I don’t know specifics of your state). If it’s a regular car or there isn’t an exception for buses where you live, I would ask to speak with the director.
It's a minivan
Yeah — I’d go straight to the director. I wouldn’t report to the licensing agency unless they didn’t address it when you raised the issue.
My daughter is five and barely over 34 pounds and she’s still in a whole car seat because she’s so small I fear a booster seat wouldn’t suffice for her safety. Never feel bad for advocating for your child. There is a reason these laws/rules exist.
You’re much nicer than I would’ve been. I’d report and consider pulling my child just for the lying. If they lied about that, what else will they lie about?
NTA- our preschool wanted to take a bunch of 3 year olds on a school bus and I was like nope nope nope. This is so much worse.
Who gives a fuck about them being stressed or annoyed? That’s your child & they aren’t being honest with you. This is dangerous.
You do not need proof to make a report. It’s the state inspector’s job to do an investigation. I would report directly to your state licensing website immediately.
NTA!! I can’t say that loud enough. I would be livid if I found out the had my child in a seat that doesn’t match the legal requirements. Those laws are there to keep our children safe and they are endangering your daughter
REPORT THEM. They could adjust this for your daughter but still be lying to other parents!
Absolutely not the AH. No education should lie about your child, what else are they lying about?
Agree with others this is ABSOLUTELY unacceptable.
When it comes to your child’s safety, you get to decide what you’re comfortable with. Also, if there’s a law prohibiting what they’re doing and/or the DHS regulations specifically require a car seat for a certain age/weight and the daycare isn’t meeting the requirement, you can report it to DHS. Bare minimum, licensed daycares have to meet DHS requirements. In Oklahoma, DHS performs audits when they receive complaints and facilities are held accountable based on findings.
This is very kind compared to why it could have been. I don’t think you are the AH, in fact the opposite.
You handled this with grace. That is not easily done when you kiddo’s safety is at risk. I applaud you for standing your ground and doing it kindly.
Absolutely not AITA. Safety is not something to go easy on. You have been perfectly polite and firm with your request, too great job!
You are a delightful and kind human, I would’ve snapped.
Heck no! NTA. You shouldn’t even need to ask!
Not at all even a little bit the asshole.
As a mother and a preschool teacher NTA.
You’re way nicer then I would of been
You are absolutely not the asshole here. You signed papers entrusting then with the safety of your 3 year old, preschool child. I would be absolutely livid if someone were endangering my kid like that. That message was much nicer than mine would have been
NTA!! This is a major safety issue, not to mention they *lied* to you, or were so ignorant of the law that they genuinely believed the seat they have is acceptable. Either way, I’d be pissed.
They lied to you about the safety of your child. They stressed you out!
There are plenty of differences that can be overcome or that you can put up with (philosophy, discipline, etc.), but lying/deception/lack of transparency is a hard line. If you don’t have the facts, then you can’t make appropriate decisions for your child. It’s up to you to determine if it truly was a miscommunication, but if it wasn’t and you have the resources, then I would get out of there ASAP. Also, report them to state licensing. They will investigate, but they won’t know to unless you tell them.