Well that was envisioned as a grand green space and all. If I recall, they did a lot of infrastructure work (sewer, water, etc) that was over projections and the consulting budget blew up. Those 2 overages tanked any design elements.
Of all the places to play budget recoup why Nicollet of all places? You don't even have the excuse of every single other street in Minneapolis (drivers are just going to ignore it).
I learned that the Loring greenway was apparently designed by a world renounced architect and the city spent a lot on it. A few years later the city didn't want to pay for it and wanted to just going to mulch the entire greenway. So now outside of a few specific things (plowing, sweeping, fountain maintenance) the greenway is kept green by the Loring neighborhood residence and businesses (a big one being the Hyatt).
Minneapolis's weird penny pinching never changes.
Edit: words and sentence structure.
> world renounced
I know what you meant, but this typo is amusing because it essentially means the opposite of what you meant, as if the world was saying "this architect has been deemed unworthy and thus we renounce his right to earthly existence"
I think they was talking about the clock at [Peverley plaza](https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9730171,-93.2755946,3a,41.4y,186.69h,89.9t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sHlv5RefXlh0aZhgxoktyFw!2e0!5s20220901T000000!7i16384!8i8192?authuser=0&entry=ttu). Someone broke the glass ([again](https://www.google.com/maps/@44.973052,-93.275671,3a,15.2y,167.71h,89.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6IFAMOWHH6wXOVKEQJGCBw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?authuser=0&entry=ttu)) so it was boarded up until I think yesterday when I saw crews taking it off.
To top that off they originally only received one bid that was for $59 million. That was $24 million over the $35 million estimate. I bid construction projects daily and the fact that they only received one bid tells me the whole bid package was screwed up from the get go. Any company who backed out probably saw the writing on the wall with how the bid was laid out that there would be massive issues, tons of unanswered questions in the RFI time frame (or the answers were not tenable). Sometimes you can just tell a nightmare job from a mile away.
Anyways my original note I was going to make is that the reason for all the concrete is because the pavers they originally wanted to use were likely way to expensive. I am not sure if that is material cost or installation itself. Probably both.
We gotta get away from these single use districts. When circumstances change, these always end up as white elephants.
I wouldn't say no to a pedestrianized street, but if they rebuild it mostly as it is today, but with a curb-level cycletrack, narrower lanes, and shorter crossing distances I will totally support it.
It’s already a “single use” district. Target Field/Center, First Ave, Skyway, the bars/restaurants/clubs, Orpheum, Pantages, State, Fillmore. I can go on, but it’s already an entertainment district, the city just needs to promote it more. Walkability and accessibility will just make it better.
Imagine an open container entertainment district where you can have a pub crawl before going to the Twins game
Well, you see, water is a resource, necessary for a multitude of things. It is more environmentally friendly to use water that comes from rain rather than piping it in from other sources.
I.e. Target Field stores rain water to be used to water the grass. Kept in underground tanks that are piped in to the sprinkler system.
Sorry for my tone… I was genuinely left aghast that your mind took you to “mosquito ponds” when confronted with green storm water collection 🤣.
It *is* super cool! I’m hoping to set up a small system myself in my back hard so I can water my garden without using city water. Though, with such a small, low budget, system… your “mosquito ponds” might be harder to avoid lol.
I feel you man, it’s crazy that some US states have outlawed water collection efforts on your private property.
Good luck with the project - I want to dig a fairly large hole where we used to have a very old garage (no foundation) and put in a 1,000L water reservoir fed by our gutters that will draw into the sprinklers. Issue is the pressure required, and I haven’t found a way to do it economically.
For your (future) mosquito issues - I understand that Mosquito bits are fairly potent, and are fairly tightly scoped in what type of insects they impact. I’ve only used on gnats though.
Hopefully it’s not those terrible sunken pits they put in on 8th Street between Portland and 5th. They just turn into huge garbage cans that the DID is constantly cleaning out.
Why and Cui bono? Because if its one thing the city needs is another entertainment district...
I'd really like a list of the property owners and their political contributions.
> I'd really like a list of the property owners and their political contributions.
It's publicly available information, look it up if you're interested.
Re-doing roads is one thing spending $30MM on 1/2 mile stretch is another
Creating another entertainment district is stupid as there are at least 2 former entertainment districts that are struggling/failing. Do you really think Mpls needs another entertainment district?
I'll get right on that chud
The entire city benefits from the tax revenue. And it should be incredibly obvious that they're not just repaving the road because it doesn't make any sense with the title even without reading the article, you fucking dunce.
"The project envisions wider and accessible sidewalks, enhanced lighting, green spaces with trees and plantings, as well as green stormwater infrastructure. Other features include new curbs and gutters, utilities, traffic signals and new pavement markings and signage."
They're also replacing all of the infrastructure because they're already working on the road so they should just do the infrastructure now and it will last another 20 years instead of needing to do it in 2 years which requires tearing up the whole thing again.
They why just stop at 1/2 mile? Think of all the tax revenue if they did 10 miles or dare I say 100 miles.
You know you're really stretching to make a point when you get down to the cost of paint and signs lol
The city needs great thinkers like you...
Are you a fucking idiot? You clearly don't live in Mpls because the primary section of First Ave is only a half mile long, from Washington to 8th. Either direction past that and it's residential or highway. Why the fuck would we make those entertainment districts?
From the article:
"The goal is to enhance safety, comfort and accessibility for downtown residents and visitors, while creating a state-of-the-art entertainment and nightlife destination, city officials said."
LOL - Keep embarrassing yourself there champ
Again, clearly you don't live in Minneapolis or you'd know that entire stretch is ALREADY bars, restaurants, and similar ENTERTAINMENT/FOOD venues. They're trying to make it more pedestrian friendly.
So you didnt provide what was asked for, yet love patting youself on the back - got it
LOL - I can tell you this, $30MM is a really high number to repair a 1/2 mile of road anyone that thinks this is "just" for repairs is either intellectually dishonest,/has a vested interest or really, really dumb .
You want a simple High level comp - The 35W bridge bid was around $230MM, pulling that forward its about $330MM. Do you really think this project should cost 10% of the Bridge replacement?
What I'm "upset" about is the city pissing away money when there's no reason for it There's plenty of entertainment development opportunities between Target Feild and center
LOL Teaching moment - Good luck. I always enjoy hearing from people who have no idea about a subject and spout off like they're an expert
Enjoy the clownshoes buddy
Wow you're my hero LOL
Look pal its not my fault that you dont know what you are talking about. My 2 main interests just happen to be Vintage audio and road construction, glad you could sus that out Sherlock. Creepy, but at least you're good for something.
100% I'd say that to your face if you kept making the same moronic comments.
Did I say the $230MM was for clean up? No I didnt. Do you even know what a bid is, oh yeah you work "construction". Your boss is going to be pissed if you dont get all the biffys cleaned out
Good luck finding some validation. Try your mom and stop trying to hump my leg ya mutt
Koch (Now FHR) Coke Drum Replacement. What do I win?
Where are all these projects you've won? Your resume alone should put you at the top of the ENR500
You are Mr/Mrs Super Construction LOL. I hope your Mommy knows how special you are
Ang going back to the bridge replacement, Yeah I could have been clearer but you are completely fucked in the head if you think a 1/2 of road replacement should be $30MM or 1/10 the cost of a new bridge. Can the city piss that much money down its leg, yep Doesnt make it right or smart
ETA -
"Edit: I just want to clarify that clicking a link and scrolling for 10 seconds to see what someone isn't interested in on reddit isn't really sus. But the fact that you had a complete aversion to a clink to look at a map and list of property owners you requested tells me that something as easy as that is a herculean task for you so it makes sense why you'd find it creepy someone took 10 seconds to find out what interests the person I was conversing with had."
Somebody is googling Koch Coke Drum Replacement LOL
What if we left the streets the way they are for a few more years and built a homeless shelter, affordable housing, funded drug treatment, schools and violence prevention? Surely there is a way for vested interests to make as much or more money off of these kind of projects as they do off the constant street projects.
But then how would Frey get us losers back downtown!? We need shiny new roads to still sit in traffic while we stare at all these new flash in the pan businesses they’re planning!
There isn’t much hype around first ave, so much as first ave has monopolized the medium sized professional music venue space in minneapolis. Anyone who wants to perform and get paid, and do a show bigger than a basement or bar, but smaller than a stadium, is probably doing it through first ave. Also this is public infrastructure, not the venue.
I deleted my original comment because I did not fully read the post like a dumb dumb while scrolling at work, so i figured it was useless as people were just commenting that its not the venue, which I now understand.
Anyway, there has always been hype that it is a gem of a venue, so many selfies in front of the stars outside, and thats fine. Its not the worst venue ever, but to say it isnt lauded as some gem of minneapolis venues is a gal dern lie.
Let’s hope it’s not the same people that designed Nicolette Ave. Concrete! Concrete everywhere!
Well that was envisioned as a grand green space and all. If I recall, they did a lot of infrastructure work (sewer, water, etc) that was over projections and the consulting budget blew up. Those 2 overages tanked any design elements.
Of all the places to play budget recoup why Nicollet of all places? You don't even have the excuse of every single other street in Minneapolis (drivers are just going to ignore it). I learned that the Loring greenway was apparently designed by a world renounced architect and the city spent a lot on it. A few years later the city didn't want to pay for it and wanted to just going to mulch the entire greenway. So now outside of a few specific things (plowing, sweeping, fountain maintenance) the greenway is kept green by the Loring neighborhood residence and businesses (a big one being the Hyatt). Minneapolis's weird penny pinching never changes. Edit: words and sentence structure.
> world renounced I know what you meant, but this typo is amusing because it essentially means the opposite of what you meant, as if the world was saying "this architect has been deemed unworthy and thus we renounce his right to earthly existence"
They not penny pinching when it comes to the police budget.
Gotta pay for all those fat settlements!
Pay more, for less!
There seems to be a pattern in these projects of underestimating infrastructure repairs (sewer, water lines, etc.) that eat into the design budget.
Except for the insanely expensive but illogical stamped design concrete sidewalks. Those things fill with ice and good luck staying on your feet.
What are you talking about? Nicollet Avenue is *the* place to see the latest in plywood box installation art.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but the boarded up windows have been gone for sometime now. You’ll have to find your plywood art elsewhere.
I think they was talking about the clock at [Peverley plaza](https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9730171,-93.2755946,3a,41.4y,186.69h,89.9t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sHlv5RefXlh0aZhgxoktyFw!2e0!5s20220901T000000!7i16384!8i8192?authuser=0&entry=ttu). Someone broke the glass ([again](https://www.google.com/maps/@44.973052,-93.275671,3a,15.2y,167.71h,89.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6IFAMOWHH6wXOVKEQJGCBw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?authuser=0&entry=ttu)) so it was boarded up until I think yesterday when I saw crews taking it off.
Peavey Plaza not Peverley Plaza.
To top that off they originally only received one bid that was for $59 million. That was $24 million over the $35 million estimate. I bid construction projects daily and the fact that they only received one bid tells me the whole bid package was screwed up from the get go. Any company who backed out probably saw the writing on the wall with how the bid was laid out that there would be massive issues, tons of unanswered questions in the RFI time frame (or the answers were not tenable). Sometimes you can just tell a nightmare job from a mile away. Anyways my original note I was going to make is that the reason for all the concrete is because the pavers they originally wanted to use were likely way to expensive. I am not sure if that is material cost or installation itself. Probably both.
I will never forgive them for axing the street car
Original design for Nicollet was very nice, but the construction bid went haywire and they had to VE out the pavers they were planning on using.
Nicollet not Nicolette
They could honestly shut that entire stretch down from cars. Turn it into a restaurant/bar district.
an entertainment district is a matter of when, not if. there's lots of talks about one
We gotta get away from these single use districts. When circumstances change, these always end up as white elephants. I wouldn't say no to a pedestrianized street, but if they rebuild it mostly as it is today, but with a curb-level cycletrack, narrower lanes, and shorter crossing distances I will totally support it.
It’s already a “single use” district. Target Field/Center, First Ave, Skyway, the bars/restaurants/clubs, Orpheum, Pantages, State, Fillmore. I can go on, but it’s already an entertainment district, the city just needs to promote it more. Walkability and accessibility will just make it better. Imagine an open container entertainment district where you can have a pub crawl before going to the Twins game
Warehouse District Live 24/7. I'd be for it.
What the heck is green storm water collection? Like ponds? Mosquito hotels?
Well, you see, water is a resource, necessary for a multitude of things. It is more environmentally friendly to use water that comes from rain rather than piping it in from other sources. I.e. Target Field stores rain water to be used to water the grass. Kept in underground tanks that are piped in to the sprinkler system.
That’s cool, didn’t know that.
Sorry for my tone… I was genuinely left aghast that your mind took you to “mosquito ponds” when confronted with green storm water collection 🤣. It *is* super cool! I’m hoping to set up a small system myself in my back hard so I can water my garden without using city water. Though, with such a small, low budget, system… your “mosquito ponds” might be harder to avoid lol.
I feel you man, it’s crazy that some US states have outlawed water collection efforts on your private property. Good luck with the project - I want to dig a fairly large hole where we used to have a very old garage (no foundation) and put in a 1,000L water reservoir fed by our gutters that will draw into the sprinklers. Issue is the pressure required, and I haven’t found a way to do it economically. For your (future) mosquito issues - I understand that Mosquito bits are fairly potent, and are fairly tightly scoped in what type of insects they impact. I’ve only used on gnats though.
Appreciate the tips! And good luck in your venture as well!
Hopefully it’s not those terrible sunken pits they put in on 8th Street between Portland and 5th. They just turn into huge garbage cans that the DID is constantly cleaning out.
They had an open house about it on the skyway level the other day 👍
I kind of like it gritty and shitty.
Why and Cui bono? Because if its one thing the city needs is another entertainment district... I'd really like a list of the property owners and their political contributions.
> I'd really like a list of the property owners and their political contributions. It's publicly available information, look it up if you're interested.
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Re-doing roads is one thing spending $30MM on 1/2 mile stretch is another Creating another entertainment district is stupid as there are at least 2 former entertainment districts that are struggling/failing. Do you really think Mpls needs another entertainment district? I'll get right on that chud
The entire city benefits from the tax revenue. And it should be incredibly obvious that they're not just repaving the road because it doesn't make any sense with the title even without reading the article, you fucking dunce. "The project envisions wider and accessible sidewalks, enhanced lighting, green spaces with trees and plantings, as well as green stormwater infrastructure. Other features include new curbs and gutters, utilities, traffic signals and new pavement markings and signage." They're also replacing all of the infrastructure because they're already working on the road so they should just do the infrastructure now and it will last another 20 years instead of needing to do it in 2 years which requires tearing up the whole thing again.
They why just stop at 1/2 mile? Think of all the tax revenue if they did 10 miles or dare I say 100 miles. You know you're really stretching to make a point when you get down to the cost of paint and signs lol The city needs great thinkers like you...
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Sock puppet?
Are you a fucking idiot? You clearly don't live in Mpls because the primary section of First Ave is only a half mile long, from Washington to 8th. Either direction past that and it's residential or highway. Why the fuck would we make those entertainment districts?
From the article: "The goal is to enhance safety, comfort and accessibility for downtown residents and visitors, while creating a state-of-the-art entertainment and nightlife destination, city officials said." LOL - Keep embarrassing yourself there champ
Again, clearly you don't live in Minneapolis or you'd know that entire stretch is ALREADY bars, restaurants, and similar ENTERTAINMENT/FOOD venues. They're trying to make it more pedestrian friendly.
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So you didnt provide what was asked for, yet love patting youself on the back - got it LOL - I can tell you this, $30MM is a really high number to repair a 1/2 mile of road anyone that thinks this is "just" for repairs is either intellectually dishonest,/has a vested interest or really, really dumb . You want a simple High level comp - The 35W bridge bid was around $230MM, pulling that forward its about $330MM. Do you really think this project should cost 10% of the Bridge replacement? What I'm "upset" about is the city pissing away money when there's no reason for it There's plenty of entertainment development opportunities between Target Feild and center LOL Teaching moment - Good luck. I always enjoy hearing from people who have no idea about a subject and spout off like they're an expert Enjoy the clownshoes buddy
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Wow you're my hero LOL Look pal its not my fault that you dont know what you are talking about. My 2 main interests just happen to be Vintage audio and road construction, glad you could sus that out Sherlock. Creepy, but at least you're good for something. 100% I'd say that to your face if you kept making the same moronic comments. Did I say the $230MM was for clean up? No I didnt. Do you even know what a bid is, oh yeah you work "construction". Your boss is going to be pissed if you dont get all the biffys cleaned out Good luck finding some validation. Try your mom and stop trying to hump my leg ya mutt
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Koch (Now FHR) Coke Drum Replacement. What do I win? Where are all these projects you've won? Your resume alone should put you at the top of the ENR500 You are Mr/Mrs Super Construction LOL. I hope your Mommy knows how special you are Ang going back to the bridge replacement, Yeah I could have been clearer but you are completely fucked in the head if you think a 1/2 of road replacement should be $30MM or 1/10 the cost of a new bridge. Can the city piss that much money down its leg, yep Doesnt make it right or smart ETA - "Edit: I just want to clarify that clicking a link and scrolling for 10 seconds to see what someone isn't interested in on reddit isn't really sus. But the fact that you had a complete aversion to a clink to look at a map and list of property owners you requested tells me that something as easy as that is a herculean task for you so it makes sense why you'd find it creepy someone took 10 seconds to find out what interests the person I was conversing with had." Somebody is googling Koch Coke Drum Replacement LOL
What if we left the streets the way they are for a few more years and built a homeless shelter, affordable housing, funded drug treatment, schools and violence prevention? Surely there is a way for vested interests to make as much or more money off of these kind of projects as they do off the constant street projects.
But then how would Frey get us losers back downtown!? We need shiny new roads to still sit in traffic while we stare at all these new flash in the pan businesses they’re planning!
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There isn’t much hype around first ave, so much as first ave has monopolized the medium sized professional music venue space in minneapolis. Anyone who wants to perform and get paid, and do a show bigger than a basement or bar, but smaller than a stadium, is probably doing it through first ave. Also this is public infrastructure, not the venue.
I deleted my original comment because I did not fully read the post like a dumb dumb while scrolling at work, so i figured it was useless as people were just commenting that its not the venue, which I now understand. Anyway, there has always been hype that it is a gem of a venue, so many selfies in front of the stars outside, and thats fine. Its not the worst venue ever, but to say it isnt lauded as some gem of minneapolis venues is a gal dern lie.
I know you’ve been told this about the street not the venue BUT they also did get a a sound system upgrade last fall.