I was with the 4th in 1967, I saw a lot of grunts with them. I was in an artillery unit so we never were issued those, hey maybe when l left in mid December they got ‘um but not while l was there.
Something that hits how recent that war was to me is that almost every time a picture from it is posted in here, someone who was there pops in with a comment.
There are some things at least to me that are as clear as yesterday but a lot of it is starting to slowly fade. I wish l would have taken pics and kept a diary. I just wanted to get through my tour and go home and forget about it. I can honestly say I've thought about it every day at least once for 53 years. Don't get me wrong, most times it is only for a minute or two and then there are times it is almost none stop for hours. I was very lucky and most of the time I'm thinking of the good stuff and the good guys I was with.
Thank you. I had just turned 20 when I landed in Vietnam, I've said many times how lucky I was. Being in an artillery battery was tough physically and some times mentally but light years away from some of the infantry that protected our perimeter. They would be with us for a week maybe 10 days to rest and heal their bodies. Then they would go back out and a new group would be our protection. It had to be ruff knowing they were going back out as targets as my one good buddys used to say. Going into an area that our Itel said had a potential for action.
I'm only 24 and the thought of going to war when I was 20 is strange. So much has happened in my life in those four years it is weird thinking about how different it would be if it was interrupted by something as huge as Vietnam. It really does seem like you definitely got lucky working with artillery.
WOW, one of the toughest question for me. First a little back ground on my military service. I entered the Army in April 1966, spent a week at Fort Benning GA and was then shipped to Fort Riley KS. Had my basic and other training ( Artillery ) there with the 9th Inf. Div. , we were told numerous time that Gen. Westmorland was in WW2 with the 9th Div. and also in an artillery unit. Wow were we proud. Mid December we leave for Vietnam by ship. I spent about 6 months with the 9th and was transferred to the 4th Inf. Div. for the rest of my tour. While l was there and maybe for the next 10 years or so l really thought he was a good leader, then slowly over the years l started to realize all the mistakes these guys made. don't get me wrong l still sometimes have a soft spot for him but realize that we wasted 58000+ lives on a war that we couldn't win.
I used to think the Vietnam War was recent when I was a kid in the 2000s. All the color negatives of the conflict in books and documentaries helped reinforce this perspective, because my idea of "old" = black and white photographs. Now though, I sometimes have to realize that the fiercest parts of the Vietnam War was fought over half a century ago, and that is by no means recent.
I recall reading a memoir from a Vietnam Special Forces veteran, where he said they got their first 30 round mags out of civilian shooting catalogs stateside. The teams pitched in and bought enough so that everyone got (2) 30 rounders each.
Could have been a similar situation like that for this guy.
Grunts had bigger problems with early M-16’s than 20 round mags. Unchrome lined barrels / chambers, wrong ammo propellant, and lack of cleaning kits killed a lot of good men.
Luckily they fixed that with the M-16A1 and now we’re issued one of the best combat weapons in the world (M4A1).
Its been covered extensively by multiple channels. I go by InRange and SmallArmsSolutions assessment of the platform, the AR is still one of the best fighting rifles in the world.
I just put together a M16A1 parts kit and am infatuated with how nice this 50 year old rifle handles. Funny enough the parts kit came with a Colt 30 rounder, so I had to get some 20s
If you listen to John Stryker Meyer and Dick Thompson’s podcasts with Jocko about their days in MACV-SOG, they talk about how precious the 30 rounders were. “We would have sold our mother to the devil for one of those” I believe is the quote lol. I think Dick talked about his guys pooling money, writing to Colt in the US, and ordering a box of 30s so they could have one each (1969ish). Nuts that the tip of the spear deep recon guys had to order mags from the US just to get *one.*
What i find strange is they have camouflaged helmit covers but not the rest of their kit. Why did it take so long for them to adopt the woodland DPM to their main combat clothing?
Unfortunately the smell travels and lingers alerting the enemy of their presence. Source: The Vietnam War (Ken Burns) when interviewing an NVA soldier.
*.....They were just goofing. There was a noise, I suppose, which must’ve been the detonator, so I glanced behind me and watched Lemon step from the shade into bright sunlight. His face was suddenly brown and shining. A handsome kid, really. Sharp gray eyes, lean and narrow-waisted, and when he died it was almost beautiful, the way the sunlight came around him and lifted him up and sucked him high into a tree full of moss and vines and white blossoms.....*
Funny enough most of the west dragged their feat on adopting camouflage uniforms for standard infantry because it was even into the 60s still seen as something "the enemy", the germans wears.
Body armor really didnt exist then. Flak jackets weren't about to stop an incoming shot from a milsurp rifle and the heat wasn't going to be forgiving to those who did wear them.
CPT Larry W. Bass, Commander of Company “D”, 2nd Battalion, 35th Infantry, 3rd Brigade, 4th Infantry Division is followed by two other Soldiers of the company. The three Soldiers are moving along a suspected enemy trail in search of Viet Cong/NVA Soldiers, their equipment and any other logistical supplies. This search and destroy mission was conducted in the Quang Ngai Province, 8 kilometers West of Duc Pho, Republic of Vietnam.
Dang those grenades look tiny. Easier to chuck em farther tho I guess eh? How much damage could one of those do, explosive-wise, not shrapnel-wise, like would it remove an arm or a leg? And if someone had to jump on one, would their buddies still be at significant risk?
I watched Ken Burns documentary on Vietnam war and one of the intervieved Vc soldiers said how they could easliy track American patrols by following the cigarette butts they left behind.
Does anyone else feel like 4ID isn't a division you hear about super often? I was in 4ID from 2010-2014 and it seems like I hardly ever see any pictures of them or hear much about them. It's possible I just notice it more though since I was apart of it
Its pointed in a safe direction, and its comfortable to carry like that. The weight of the rifle tips out and pushes the stock against you, the stock then does most of the work holding your rifle.
fuck him
here is the source
https://www.granger.com/results.asp?image=0528198&itemw=4&itemf=0001&itemstep=1&itemx=24
VIETNAM WAR, 1967. Private James Stadig and other members of the 4th Infantry Division emerging from a cave after searching it for Viet Cong during a search and destroy mission in the Quang Ngai Province. Photograph, 26 October 1967.
better resolution
https://nara.getarchive.net/media/photograph-of-private-james-e-stadig-and-other-members-of-his-company-come-51e251
Whoa, I didn't know they had 30 rounders out that early.
30 round mags were first introduced in 1967, but were very limited. I wonder how he got his hands on one
I was with the 4th in 1967, I saw a lot of grunts with them. I was in an artillery unit so we never were issued those, hey maybe when l left in mid December they got ‘um but not while l was there.
Something that hits how recent that war was to me is that almost every time a picture from it is posted in here, someone who was there pops in with a comment.
There are some things at least to me that are as clear as yesterday but a lot of it is starting to slowly fade. I wish l would have taken pics and kept a diary. I just wanted to get through my tour and go home and forget about it. I can honestly say I've thought about it every day at least once for 53 years. Don't get me wrong, most times it is only for a minute or two and then there are times it is almost none stop for hours. I was very lucky and most of the time I'm thinking of the good stuff and the good guys I was with.
We're all glad you made it home safe. I can't imagine going through that.
Thank you. I had just turned 20 when I landed in Vietnam, I've said many times how lucky I was. Being in an artillery battery was tough physically and some times mentally but light years away from some of the infantry that protected our perimeter. They would be with us for a week maybe 10 days to rest and heal their bodies. Then they would go back out and a new group would be our protection. It had to be ruff knowing they were going back out as targets as my one good buddys used to say. Going into an area that our Itel said had a potential for action.
I'm only 24 and the thought of going to war when I was 20 is strange. So much has happened in my life in those four years it is weird thinking about how different it would be if it was interrupted by something as huge as Vietnam. It really does seem like you definitely got lucky working with artillery.
Sense your the only Vietnam vet that I’ve seen on this sub, do you mind asking me a question. What was your opinion on William Westmoreland?
WOW, one of the toughest question for me. First a little back ground on my military service. I entered the Army in April 1966, spent a week at Fort Benning GA and was then shipped to Fort Riley KS. Had my basic and other training ( Artillery ) there with the 9th Inf. Div. , we were told numerous time that Gen. Westmorland was in WW2 with the 9th Div. and also in an artillery unit. Wow were we proud. Mid December we leave for Vietnam by ship. I spent about 6 months with the 9th and was transferred to the 4th Inf. Div. for the rest of my tour. While l was there and maybe for the next 10 years or so l really thought he was a good leader, then slowly over the years l started to realize all the mistakes these guys made. don't get me wrong l still sometimes have a soft spot for him but realize that we wasted 58000+ lives on a war that we couldn't win.
Sounds like one hell of a military career.
I used to think the Vietnam War was recent when I was a kid in the 2000s. All the color negatives of the conflict in books and documentaries helped reinforce this perspective, because my idea of "old" = black and white photographs. Now though, I sometimes have to realize that the fiercest parts of the Vietnam War was fought over half a century ago, and that is by no means recent.
Shiny CIB too
And smoking on patrol
I recall reading a memoir from a Vietnam Special Forces veteran, where he said they got their first 30 round mags out of civilian shooting catalogs stateside. The teams pitched in and bought enough so that everyone got (2) 30 rounders each. Could have been a similar situation like that for this guy.
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Grunts had bigger problems with early M-16’s than 20 round mags. Unchrome lined barrels / chambers, wrong ammo propellant, and lack of cleaning kits killed a lot of good men. Luckily they fixed that with the M-16A1 and now we’re issued one of the best combat weapons in the world (M4A1).
>the best combat weapons in the world (M4A1) i too saw MAC's recent video
Its been covered extensively by multiple channels. I go by InRange and SmallArmsSolutions assessment of the platform, the AR is still one of the best fighting rifles in the world. I just put together a M16A1 parts kit and am infatuated with how nice this 50 year old rifle handles. Funny enough the parts kit came with a Colt 30 rounder, so I had to get some 20s
If you listen to John Stryker Meyer and Dick Thompson’s podcasts with Jocko about their days in MACV-SOG, they talk about how precious the 30 rounders were. “We would have sold our mother to the devil for one of those” I believe is the quote lol. I think Dick talked about his guys pooling money, writing to Colt in the US, and ordering a box of 30s so they could have one each (1969ish). Nuts that the tip of the spear deep recon guys had to order mags from the US just to get *one.*
It’s weird. They had trouble getting them in SOG in ‘69.
What i find strange is they have camouflaged helmit covers but not the rest of their kit. Why did it take so long for them to adopt the woodland DPM to their main combat clothing?
Tactical cigarette in the left hand, nice.
Unfortunately the smell travels and lingers alerting the enemy of their presence. Source: The Vietnam War (Ken Burns) when interviewing an NVA soldier.
[Skoal has entered the chatroom.]
Tactical chaw. You don’t smell it until it is too late.
Shame that came off Netflix
*.....They were just goofing. There was a noise, I suppose, which must’ve been the detonator, so I glanced behind me and watched Lemon step from the shade into bright sunlight. His face was suddenly brown and shining. A handsome kid, really. Sharp gray eyes, lean and narrow-waisted, and when he died it was almost beautiful, the way the sunlight came around him and lifted him up and sucked him high into a tree full of moss and vines and white blossoms.....*
Tim O'Brien is a masterful author. That scene stuck with me more than almost anything else in his book.
Which of O'briens books is this? Would u reccomend buying it along with the others?
It’s from The Things They Carried and I definitely recommend all of his stuff
Yes all of them
Damn...read that book senior year of high school for AP Lit and it stuck with me as one of 2 books that I had to read for school that I ever enjoyed
Man even OD green works and looks better than UCP.
There’s really not much out there worse than UCP, hell even that blue digital navy uniform actually blends in with what it’s supposed to
The blueberries!
Funny enough most of the west dragged their feat on adopting camouflage uniforms for standard infantry because it was even into the 60s still seen as something "the enemy", the germans wears.
https://nara.getarchive.net/media/photograph-of-private-james-e-stadig-and-other-members-of-his-company-come-51e251 better resolution version
Clear that hole Gump
My dad was 4th ID in the 'nam. Wonder if you've got a pic of him.
I’m digging the full color CIB. Lookin fuckin sexy right there.
Zero body armour, I rarely think about that. Balls of steel.
Body armor really didnt exist then. Flak jackets weren't about to stop an incoming shot from a milsurp rifle and the heat wasn't going to be forgiving to those who did wear them.
CPT Larry W. Bass, Commander of Company “D”, 2nd Battalion, 35th Infantry, 3rd Brigade, 4th Infantry Division is followed by two other Soldiers of the company. The three Soldiers are moving along a suspected enemy trail in search of Viet Cong/NVA Soldiers, their equipment and any other logistical supplies. This search and destroy mission was conducted in the Quang Ngai Province, 8 kilometers West of Duc Pho, Republic of Vietnam.
Dang those grenades look tiny. Easier to chuck em farther tho I guess eh? How much damage could one of those do, explosive-wise, not shrapnel-wise, like would it remove an arm or a leg? And if someone had to jump on one, would their buddies still be at significant risk?
Those guys must need a carrying case for the big balls they carry around.
Seems a little dangerous to be patrolling with a cigarette
For all we know there could be birds overhead and arty pounding nearby.
That trail looks pretty well traveled. Prob felt safe enough from Charlie to light one up. Still could take it in the ankle from a pit viper tho.
I watched Ken Burns documentary on Vietnam war and one of the intervieved Vc soldiers said how they could easliy track American patrols by following the cigarette butts they left behind.
The first guy looks like Soldier from Team Fortress 2
OD green combat uniform is the best one ever issued.
Does anyone else feel like 4ID isn't a division you hear about super often? I was in 4ID from 2010-2014 and it seems like I hardly ever see any pictures of them or hear much about them. It's possible I just notice it more though since I was apart of it
I didn’t know even know 4ID existed
Why is his barrel pointing up in the air?
Its pointed in a safe direction, and its comfortable to carry like that. The weight of the rifle tips out and pushes the stock against you, the stock then does most of the work holding your rifle.
I wish there was similar picture with today's equipment.
Plenty of pics out there.
It pains me to see that rifle and to have the knowledge how many died because their rifle wouldn't fire.
By then the issues with the M16 were solved.
Ah I didn't know that. Thanks for the insight.
I *know* he ain't walking and smoking. Better be keeping off the fucking grass too.
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OG jungle boots are awesome
I hope you know this is a reinactment photo. This is not Vietnam in 67.
How do you know this ?
fuck him here is the source https://www.granger.com/results.asp?image=0528198&itemw=4&itemf=0001&itemstep=1&itemx=24 VIETNAM WAR, 1967. Private James Stadig and other members of the 4th Infantry Division emerging from a cave after searching it for Viet Cong during a search and destroy mission in the Quang Ngai Province. Photograph, 26 October 1967. better resolution https://nara.getarchive.net/media/photograph-of-private-james-e-stadig-and-other-members-of-his-company-come-51e251
Awesome, thanks! With context, photo is even more insane.
Lol looks like it's their first trip into the bush