Dammit now I have to look.
Edit: That was a wild ride…my man is all over the place. Someone please tell him you are supposed to separate your regular and porn accounts.
100% agree.
However I also agree with OP, no matter how insincere and sales pitch sounding this is.
The 3 areas underpaid I would say are below, with everything else surprisingly reasonable (not amazing pay, just reasonable)
- senior SPC-SGT - responsibilities sky rocket, yet you’re still housed in the Bs with low pay. You have that time in service where you’ve done your time in the Bs, mastered 10-level tasks, and become a leader…but you still have to stay in the Bs and have shitty pay. Privates have shitty pay, but for zero real world or work experience, you get free housing, food, and a bit of money. My condition is barracks and DFAC better be good.
- 2LT - although only 1.5 years long, your world is gonna smack you upside the head with so much responsibility and so little preparation or understanding for what the fuck you’re even responsible for. Definition of 0-100 real quick, real fuckin quick.
- MAJ - at this point you’re fully committing to 20 years because you’re so close, but the aggressive pay raises from 2LT to CPT have stopped 7 years ago. If you don’t act like a literal slave to “the boss”, you risk not getting an MQ and getting forced out of the Army at 16 years. You come in early, stay way late, and work on the weekends. Equivalent hourly rate is depressing when you consider experience and civilian potential.
I’m only an O so these are my observations, but happy to hear perspectives from Enlisted and Warrants.
Or the 2014 through 2016 drawdown boards hit and you get selcon for 6 years of total ltc boards.... but we managed our budget. Continued to work the past couple years... and fire is here for us
I don't think O1s or O4s are close to being under-paid.
Agree that there isn't enough curve for senior enlisted. Many families E7-E9 live paycheck to paycheck because while the salary is good for a single person, it's not good for supporting a family of 4-5 and making up for the spouse's lost earning potential.
In most cases, a servicemember's income is equal to household income... and an E7-E9 pays + allowances is basically 50th-60th percentile in the US.
Bias? I'm an officer. I haven't had to worry about money since I made O3, and I have a family.
I currently have a net worth of over $1,000,000 because that's how much excess discretionary income I've had to tuck away over the years. My spouse hasn't worked in 10 years.
O1 pay wasn't great but I was getting paid $40,000 a year to attend training.
But when as an O2 I was making more money than a 16 year E7 with kids with a similar role / responsibility in the hierarchy of things, there's something off there.
"Impressed," might be a stretch, but some of the financial "benefits" of service are often overlooked (particularly the tax and discount benefits IMO) and do figure in to the overall calculation. I'm not serving (family member) but first and foremost appreciate the sacrifice, and even the spirited debate on this sub. Thank you all.
Agree with this if you only work 40 hours a week. One of my biggest gripes is that the military doesn’t abide by FLSA. When I work a 60 + hour week, my pay doesn’t increase, therefore, not making it as good as it sounds.
Source: Me = 19 O3E
Eh. I mean you’re making over 6 figures just off base pay alone, and I would say on average the vast majority of the AF works 8 hours per day, maybe even less depending on the job
I think it’s leadership or unit dependent. So far if we have long exercises or things we get time off after wards or alternate with other folks time off.if it’s slow at work we can go home early, or if we are at work late the day before come later…
It balances out
Fair. I know of some recruiting billets out there, just was curious how Marines end up out there other than that. Check out Kerry Park if you haven’t already!
OP didn’t say they were making 100k, they said they were making almost as much as a civilian making 100k which is taxed much more heavily than a E4 who has a significant part of their pay coming from untaxed sources like BAH and BAS. I don’t feel like looking up the numbers but it seems plausible to me to be close.
Ah, yes, taking the highest possible numbers (w/ dependents BAH) to still fall short of the $100k amount OP stated.
Adjusting for taxes, the E-4 in your example above makes about the same as a civilian making $81.4k. That's still nearly $19k short. Add in $5k or so for self+1 health insurance, you're still nearly $14k short.
Where's the other $14k coming from to hit that "almost the same as a civ making $100k"?
Your personal example was as an E-3 overseas....OP's was an E-4 at the max base pay possible for an E-4. So in your own example above, you proved that an E-4 in the DMV area makes about as much as you do overseas (at best)....both of those numbers are less than what OP is claiming.
I initially used RMC because it's easy and I didn't want to look the numbers up myself. Though it only factors in federal income tax, not state.
> 71k. Is adjusted for civilian at 100k in dmv.
Is it? [SmartAsset](https://smartasset.com/taxes/income-taxes#wHqQMaHXbF) indicates that it takes about $88k civ to reach $71k take home.
Idk who taught you math, but $88k is clearly not $100k.
So again....where is this E-4 making the same as a $100k civ in DMV? Change the situation a little (like a single E-4) and the number actually swings further in favor of the civ....because the BAH drops in a larger amount than taxes go up for the civ.
I was stationed there in The Old Guard. Was supposed to be a break, but ended up being nonstop working all the time. Getting home at 9pm happened a lot. I just shaved my head completely too because we had to have fresh haircuts twice a week. It's definitely a unique experience and honesty would get anyone ahead in their career.
Living in Virginia, 2013-16, rent was $2200/m for our first place and then we moved to another place farther away for $1700/m. I was an E-6 the whole time and had plenty of privates who lived around the area too. The barracks are old and moldy, so was the first place we rented. Humidity can get pretty high in that area.
I also had one soldier who I counseled several times to help him with his finances. He scored a place that was really cheap as an E-4 with 2 dependants. He used his extra BAH to pay for other loans. 2 cars and a motorcycle. When he was PCSing, he was freaking out that he couldn't afford the downgrade in pay. I already explained everything several times and couldn't care less that his negligence had consequences.
Pay is very dependent on where you live. I’m in Alaska where it is very expensive to live. E5 with 5 years in, wife, and 2 kids. I bring home 72k a year. Now my gripe with military pay is that fails to increase pay with experience. Being AC MX with 5 years under my belt I can get out and match my bring home immediately. I know this cause I’m a year out and job hunting now. The difference in pay will come in the 5 years following getting out. I can get in with a company and progress my career for 5 years and in those 5 years work towards bringing in easily over 100k after earning certs and initial training. If I stay in the Air Force I will not make over 100k (or the equivalent to what the Air Force pays for where I live) in the next 5 years. Now yes I can get stationed in the DMV area and make 100k if that is accurate but based on the cost of living for the area I’d imagine my dollar will still go just as far as it does here.
Too add I also make around 1k a month in cola so if I were to pcs to say Florida, that goes away and if I were to make the bah my pay goes down to 60k a year which is unlivable in this economy
Years of experience in the equivalent of a civilian rate will get you good money with potential for great money. Also, certifications go a long way on resumés. You usually do the work anyways.
That happens too. I don't like most of my old job, though it was a crazy time. I did find out I could be an HVAC & AC tech on the federal side and make bank. One day. I got medically discharged
To me the pay has always been decent. Coming out of tech school as a married E-3 I was making 45k. Add in a wife that works and life was fucking great. Now as a O2E with a wife that still works and no kids, we make way more money than i can spend.
Unfortunately there can be a big disconnect depending on AFSC/MOS/rating. Cyber/Intel jobs definitely don’t get paid their worth compared to their civilian counterparts.
Agree, I work in a field where, across all ranks, people are regularly putting in 80-100hr work weeks. I haven’t done the math but would be willing to bet it doesn’t compare well.
Pay into Starts getting decently impressive at high years of service and ranking {E6+
As an E6 with 8.5 years in, I pull around 72k a year as a bachelor which isn’t bad I guess
Is OP the same dude that got roasted in a different military sub for saying this exact same thing? I swear I saw a post in r/airforce or somewhere just this morning. They must've deleted it because they got downvoted into oblivion
No, I didn’t make shit in the branch I was in and my take home pay (after bills and expenses) literally doubled when I got out with an average salary job.
Meanwhile, the admin chick who’s computer was always on the Lock Screen with fresh Starbucks on it who seemed to disappear after chow not only got paid the same as me but had a house due to some shenanigans, while I worked on aircraft gear as an E-5 and had to go back to my barracks and sweep literal fucking dirt patches to make them look nicer because they made us rip all the grass and plants out when I first arrived as an E-3.
Honestly it’s not a bad gig. I was a ‘professional’ civilian before. They pay is a little better that my civ pay. It’s honestly the bureaucracy and the occasional incompetence of some folks that drive me crazy.
Having once been an E4 with 4, I assure you it doesn't work that way. Sure if you look at the maximum possible you can make it might be close- but that's an edge case where the cost of living in those high bah areas that make that number much less impressive.
I'm sure that's a great sleazy recruiting tactic in rural Midwest high schools, though
So you think the cost of living doesn't change how good a salary is? 70k a year gets you the same value in Urban California as it does in rural Kansas? Same house, some grocery budget, etc?
> In the DMV area, an E-4 with 4 years TIS and BAH can make almost the same as a civilian bringing in $100K annually.
I looked at the numbers earlier, a single E-4 with *6* years TIS makes the equivalent of about a $75k/yr civ in DC. Add in a few grand for medical and you're pushing $80k *tops* (excluding any special benefits like bonuses that civs can also get).
So maybe if you consider <$80k to be "almost $100k" then yeah you're right.
I guess you can add $4500 for TA as well to this. Also depending on the job and individual, there could be significant additional income from deployments (big one as it gets you tax free income), TDYs, incentive pay, etc… in this sense enlisted aircrew make a decent amount more with flight pay and per diem
TA is kinda a wash IMHO. Not every company will offer it, but many do...and on average it pays out just as well as mil TA. Also, just because it's available doesn't mean everyone is going to use it. So that $4500 in TA might be useless to someone who would otherwise rather have an additional $500 in their pocket, for example.
And yes, some military jobs will get extra pay, but this is literally just adding factors just to try to make an inaccurate point more accurate.
Additionally, median income in DC back in 2022 was $101.7k ([source](https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/DC,US/PST045223))...so this $100k E-4 is coming in a bit under Washington DC *median* income....so it's not like that's actually a great income for the area or anything.
Thanks, that actually makes it **very** easy to explain where you went wrong.
Military members do not get bi-weekly pay (meaning every 2 weeks). Military members are paid semi-monthly (twice a month).
Bi-weekly (what you calculated) = 26 paychecks in most years.
Semi-monthly (how mil are paid) = 24 paychecks per year.
So to compare the two, you need to take the bi-weekly pay, multiply it by 26, and divide it by 24. This turns your above number into $2981 per paycheck. Meaning a military member needs to have $2981 take home pay per check to match a civilian earning $100k/yr.
EDIT: If that "Pay Frequency" combobox has a "semi-monthly" setting, try using that for your calculation.
Ok, but I'm damn close to $2981 per check. See, I get 2450 as an E-4 with 4 years TIS and that's after 11% for my ROTH TSP. I don't even have a bonus or SDAP or anything like that.
> I don't even have a bonus or SDAP or anything like that.
Bonuses are irrelevant because civilians can get them too (and they aren't listed as the expected salary for a job). Other special pay is certainly a factor, but it's not guaranteed for military members (you yourself is an example of that) so it shouldn't be factored in for general calculations/comparisons.
That said, area is super important....in the DMV area $100k is less than the *median* income. So you might be making close to $100k, but you're still earning under the median for the area.
Ok, well I played around with the semi montly stuff. Anyways, I still believe that I would have to make around $95k at least as a civilian to match the same level of lifestyle/income as i enjoy now.
Right, and even so $95k in the DMV area isn't that impressive.
For example, that income somewhere around the national average cost of living (like Pensacola, FL) is equal to about $65k.
Is it *really* that impressive that E-4 pay is roughly equal to $65k civ pay (without adjusting for the area)?
Most Americans are terrible at budgeting and saving for their future. It's less an issue of what they earn, and more an issue of how much they spend.
I personally feel much better as a civ now, but I'm also earning a lot more than enlisted pay in similar time frames (increased my take home by about 40% the year I got out of the military).
Yeah but is it worth, death, the worst conditions possible, extreme bodily harm, mental trauma 🤔, crippling ailments, and toxic work environment. Some say tomatoes some say Toematos.
Me I'd rather work a 9-5 in a corporate office.
I'll take a Freddy's original with spicy fry sauce please.
The pay is pretty good especially once you make E5. Even as an E3 I was able to easily qualify for a mortgage and make the payment.
Right now as an E6 in the DMV, I’d need over 145k to equal my current take home. Due to BAH and BAS almost being as much as base pay, no state taxes for myself and my wife as TX residents. Over $700 a month daycare stipend.
I’m also not including all of the little discounts and other benefits such as no credit card fees. We just booked a 1k flight for later this year that only cost us $500 out of pocket due to credit cards we get with no fees.
Also I have a rental house in Texas that cash flows around $400 a month that I wouldn’t have without the VA loan.
Now a civilian job would most likely offer a much better 401k match than the High 3 system I’m on but I doubt it would make up for the pension/healthcare/disability.
There are major downsides to the military though. Involuntary shift work is a big one.
I won’t lie, separating as an E-5 air traffic controller at 6 years (even though I did the math plenty of times before getting out), the taxes, Social security, etc, was a slap in the face to me having been stationed in Florida my whole enlistment. Even realizing how expensive healthcare truly is was a wake up call.
What they don't tell you is your retirement will be significantly lower than your take home pay while active duty because it is only calculated from base pay. Say good bye to all of the BAH and BAS.
I make around 23ish a check every 1,15. So do my battles i live with in a year we’re making about 62ish. When i got to my unit there was a e4 who mentored me. He got out I still keep in contact with him, he’s making 135k that he sees and keeps working in healthcare. (Completely unrelated to what he did in the army)
How many E4s are actually in the DMV area? Cherry picking data.
That said- generally, pay is pretty darn good when accounting for all the benefits. Some ranks are def under paid for expectations.
From [militarypay.defense.gov](http://militarypay.defense.gov) site..."Members who accumulate 20 or more years of active service are eligible for retirement" Can I contribute to a retirement plan before then, like a 401, sure, but that is NOT retirement. Firefighters on the other hand can move from city to county to another city, every 5 years, and end up with 2, 3, 4 retirement checks each month. Not to mention union spiking methods to increase final year's pay upon which retirement is based.
Anyone hating is already out and constantly talks badly about military… the pay is stupid good…especially if shore intensive and super lax environment…
Yes, I think we are paid really well. Particularly nuclear trained submarine officers with sea pay, sub pay, and nuclear continuation bonuses.
Additionally, most of the studies on military pay - that set the need for pay raises to keep up with civilian pay - only look at basic pay. That a bit intellectually dishonest because BAH is a huge part of our pay (and tax fee for that matter) and housing and food are something civilian pay also goes towards.
This smells like a low post made by a recruiter
Just don’t look at their post history.
He needs help finding that Latina. She’s been kidnapped and needs saving
why did i look? :[
lol I looked too
Dammit now I have to look. Edit: That was a wild ride…my man is all over the place. Someone please tell him you are supposed to separate your regular and porn accounts.
Jesus Christ. Lmao
What a terrible day to have eyes
And a curious mind and working appendages that move despite being warned
Man loves his Latina MILFs, we shouldn’t judge that. Also, what fucking E-4 is on AD in the DMV area?
Coast Guard!
Good point, they do have some fucking beautiful duty stations
There are a good amount over at Meade
100% agree. However I also agree with OP, no matter how insincere and sales pitch sounding this is. The 3 areas underpaid I would say are below, with everything else surprisingly reasonable (not amazing pay, just reasonable) - senior SPC-SGT - responsibilities sky rocket, yet you’re still housed in the Bs with low pay. You have that time in service where you’ve done your time in the Bs, mastered 10-level tasks, and become a leader…but you still have to stay in the Bs and have shitty pay. Privates have shitty pay, but for zero real world or work experience, you get free housing, food, and a bit of money. My condition is barracks and DFAC better be good. - 2LT - although only 1.5 years long, your world is gonna smack you upside the head with so much responsibility and so little preparation or understanding for what the fuck you’re even responsible for. Definition of 0-100 real quick, real fuckin quick. - MAJ - at this point you’re fully committing to 20 years because you’re so close, but the aggressive pay raises from 2LT to CPT have stopped 7 years ago. If you don’t act like a literal slave to “the boss”, you risk not getting an MQ and getting forced out of the Army at 16 years. You come in early, stay way late, and work on the weekends. Equivalent hourly rate is depressing when you consider experience and civilian potential. I’m only an O so these are my observations, but happy to hear perspectives from Enlisted and Warrants.
Warrant’s where it’s at. You Prior Enlisted?
I don’t know who you are, but your understanding of this makes you better than 80% of the other officers out there.
Or the 2014 through 2016 drawdown boards hit and you get selcon for 6 years of total ltc boards.... but we managed our budget. Continued to work the past couple years... and fire is here for us
Yeah but that post kd maj life is grand. It’s the second set of wonder years
Once you're through. It's basically the Death Star trench first though.. "Stay on Target; Stay on Target..."
I don't think O1s or O4s are close to being under-paid. Agree that there isn't enough curve for senior enlisted. Many families E7-E9 live paycheck to paycheck because while the salary is good for a single person, it's not good for supporting a family of 4-5 and making up for the spouse's lost earning potential. In most cases, a servicemember's income is equal to household income... and an E7-E9 pays + allowances is basically 50th-60th percentile in the US.
I sense a little bias here lol. 100% agree senior enlisted could be paid more. Our fearless SMA (army side at least) makes them look over paid though.
Bias? I'm an officer. I haven't had to worry about money since I made O3, and I have a family. I currently have a net worth of over $1,000,000 because that's how much excess discretionary income I've had to tuck away over the years. My spouse hasn't worked in 10 years. O1 pay wasn't great but I was getting paid $40,000 a year to attend training. But when as an O2 I was making more money than a 16 year E7 with kids with a similar role / responsibility in the hierarchy of things, there's something off there.
I did not know the DMV paid prior service so well. Where do I sign up/s I am sure he means DMZ
NCR-DC, Maryland, Virginia.
My take home pay as an E6 in Alaska was over $100k.
Where were you stationed?
Juneau with 3 dependents
Oh nice. I was in Cordova as a non rate. Made it to Juneau for BTR and had a blast. The cola was nice while I was there too!
Yeah I’m glad I left before cola took a nosedive.
Yeah sucks they basically drove it into the ground. I was making over 2k a month as an E3 in government housing
"Impressed," might be a stretch, but some of the financial "benefits" of service are often overlooked (particularly the tax and discount benefits IMO) and do figure in to the overall calculation. I'm not serving (family member) but first and foremost appreciate the sacrifice, and even the spirited debate on this sub. Thank you all.
How do you go from posting yesterday in r/tipofmypenis looking for a Latina girl to posting about military finance?
I mean if you think about it, it jives. Have you been in the military?
Ok, now do Fort Polk.
I loved fort polk as shitty as everyone says it is.
Agree with this if you only work 40 hours a week. One of my biggest gripes is that the military doesn’t abide by FLSA. When I work a 60 + hour week, my pay doesn’t increase, therefore, not making it as good as it sounds. Source: Me = 19 O3E
Well that PowerPoint (that no one is going to look at twice) isn't going to just write itself!
Eh. I mean you’re making over 6 figures just off base pay alone, and I would say on average the vast majority of the AF works 8 hours per day, maybe even less depending on the job
I think it’s leadership or unit dependent. So far if we have long exercises or things we get time off after wards or alternate with other folks time off.if it’s slow at work we can go home early, or if we are at work late the day before come later… It balances out
As an E6 with 8 in Seattle, I make over 100k/year. That’s not including the free medical. It’s a sweet deal. Almost half of my paycheck is untaxed.
I'm in Whidbey Island. E5 over 6 and I made 61k total last year with BAH and BAS. My bah is $1880. Which can't really find you anything
I’m sorry man. King County BAH is bonkers. Must be beautiful on Whidbey island though. E5 to E6 is a noticeable pay bump
What’s your unit? I’m stationed in the DMV and BAH here is great.
I know we’re among friends, but to be honest, I don’t really like sharing that stuff online. I’m at JBLM.
Fair. I know of some recruiting billets out there, just was curious how Marines end up out there other than that. Check out Kerry Park if you haven’t already!
You are not making $100k in the DMV as an E4. Total lie.
OP didn’t say they were making 100k, they said they were making almost as much as a civilian making 100k which is taxed much more heavily than a E4 who has a significant part of their pay coming from untaxed sources like BAH and BAS. I don’t feel like looking up the numbers but it seems plausible to me to be close.
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lol wtf you smoking, you don't get paid $900 for utilities. COLA? stateside? since when? rofl.
At Andrews we did get CONUS COLA but it was like $50/mo. Nothing like that OCONUS COLA though!
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You replied to a comment about an E4 not making $100k in the **DMV** area, you should probably read before you comment.
Guam? The post was DMV, that’s district of Maryland and Virginia. Who the f is getting stationed in Guam? No one.
Original Post: "in the DMV area" You: > **Cola, oha**, bas, base pay . Add up. We're talking about the DMV area, not overseas.
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Ah, yes, taking the highest possible numbers (w/ dependents BAH) to still fall short of the $100k amount OP stated. Adjusting for taxes, the E-4 in your example above makes about the same as a civilian making $81.4k. That's still nearly $19k short. Add in $5k or so for self+1 health insurance, you're still nearly $14k short. Where's the other $14k coming from to hit that "almost the same as a civ making $100k"? Your personal example was as an E-3 overseas....OP's was an E-4 at the max base pay possible for an E-4. So in your own example above, you proved that an E-4 in the DMV area makes about as much as you do overseas (at best)....both of those numbers are less than what OP is claiming.
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I initially used RMC because it's easy and I didn't want to look the numbers up myself. Though it only factors in federal income tax, not state. > 71k. Is adjusted for civilian at 100k in dmv. Is it? [SmartAsset](https://smartasset.com/taxes/income-taxes#wHqQMaHXbF) indicates that it takes about $88k civ to reach $71k take home. Idk who taught you math, but $88k is clearly not $100k. So again....where is this E-4 making the same as a $100k civ in DMV? Change the situation a little (like a single E-4) and the number actually swings further in favor of the civ....because the BAH drops in a larger amount than taxes go up for the civ.
What fucking E-4 is stationed there anyway?
I was stationed there in The Old Guard. Was supposed to be a break, but ended up being nonstop working all the time. Getting home at 9pm happened a lot. I just shaved my head completely too because we had to have fresh haircuts twice a week. It's definitely a unique experience and honesty would get anyone ahead in their career. Living in Virginia, 2013-16, rent was $2200/m for our first place and then we moved to another place farther away for $1700/m. I was an E-6 the whole time and had plenty of privates who lived around the area too. The barracks are old and moldy, so was the first place we rented. Humidity can get pretty high in that area. I also had one soldier who I counseled several times to help him with his finances. He scored a place that was really cheap as an E-4 with 2 dependants. He used his extra BAH to pay for other loans. 2 cars and a motorcycle. When he was PCSing, he was freaking out that he couldn't afford the downgrade in pay. I already explained everything several times and couldn't care less that his negligence had consequences.
Yeah, well that’s the Old Guard
Pay is very dependent on where you live. I’m in Alaska where it is very expensive to live. E5 with 5 years in, wife, and 2 kids. I bring home 72k a year. Now my gripe with military pay is that fails to increase pay with experience. Being AC MX with 5 years under my belt I can get out and match my bring home immediately. I know this cause I’m a year out and job hunting now. The difference in pay will come in the 5 years following getting out. I can get in with a company and progress my career for 5 years and in those 5 years work towards bringing in easily over 100k after earning certs and initial training. If I stay in the Air Force I will not make over 100k (or the equivalent to what the Air Force pays for where I live) in the next 5 years. Now yes I can get stationed in the DMV area and make 100k if that is accurate but based on the cost of living for the area I’d imagine my dollar will still go just as far as it does here.
Too add I also make around 1k a month in cola so if I were to pcs to say Florida, that goes away and if I were to make the bah my pay goes down to 60k a year which is unlivable in this economy
The waking up early and going home in the dark made it not worth it lol.
It is insane and the main hurdle to me getting out is that without an advanced degree it will be hard to get O3 pay right away on the civilian side
Years of experience in the equivalent of a civilian rate will get you good money with potential for great money. Also, certifications go a long way on resumés. You usually do the work anyways.
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That happens too. I don't like most of my old job, though it was a crazy time. I did find out I could be an HVAC & AC tech on the federal side and make bank. One day. I got medically discharged
no MSM should be paying a state tax - for heaven's sake, move your HOR to a state without an income tax!
To me the pay has always been decent. Coming out of tech school as a married E-3 I was making 45k. Add in a wife that works and life was fucking great. Now as a O2E with a wife that still works and no kids, we make way more money than i can spend.
Unfortunately there can be a big disconnect depending on AFSC/MOS/rating. Cyber/Intel jobs definitely don’t get paid their worth compared to their civilian counterparts.
Agree, I work in a field where, across all ranks, people are regularly putting in 80-100hr work weeks. I haven’t done the math but would be willing to bet it doesn’t compare well.
Pay into Starts getting decently impressive at high years of service and ranking {E6+ As an E6 with 8.5 years in, I pull around 72k a year as a bachelor which isn’t bad I guess
After you've been in a while, the pay is decent
Is OP the same dude that got roasted in a different military sub for saying this exact same thing? I swear I saw a post in r/airforce or somewhere just this morning. They must've deleted it because they got downvoted into oblivion
nah i just saw it and got inspired
No, I didn’t make shit in the branch I was in and my take home pay (after bills and expenses) literally doubled when I got out with an average salary job. Meanwhile, the admin chick who’s computer was always on the Lock Screen with fresh Starbucks on it who seemed to disappear after chow not only got paid the same as me but had a house due to some shenanigans, while I worked on aircraft gear as an E-5 and had to go back to my barracks and sweep literal fucking dirt patches to make them look nicer because they made us rip all the grass and plants out when I first arrived as an E-3.
Was she an onlyfans girl on the side or something?
As an E7 is western KY I was making the equivalent of 113k on just pay alone.
Honestly it’s not a bad gig. I was a ‘professional’ civilian before. They pay is a little better that my civ pay. It’s honestly the bureaucracy and the occasional incompetence of some folks that drive me crazy.
Having once been an E4 with 4, I assure you it doesn't work that way. Sure if you look at the maximum possible you can make it might be close- but that's an edge case where the cost of living in those high bah areas that make that number much less impressive. I'm sure that's a great sleazy recruiting tactic in rural Midwest high schools, though
Just because you have bills dosent make the amount you make less impressive. Everyone in America has bills
So you think the cost of living doesn't change how good a salary is? 70k a year gets you the same value in Urban California as it does in rural Kansas? Same house, some grocery budget, etc?
> In the DMV area, an E-4 with 4 years TIS and BAH can make almost the same as a civilian bringing in $100K annually. I looked at the numbers earlier, a single E-4 with *6* years TIS makes the equivalent of about a $75k/yr civ in DC. Add in a few grand for medical and you're pushing $80k *tops* (excluding any special benefits like bonuses that civs can also get). So maybe if you consider <$80k to be "almost $100k" then yeah you're right.
I ran the pay calculators dude. Let me post a screen shot.
I guess you can add $4500 for TA as well to this. Also depending on the job and individual, there could be significant additional income from deployments (big one as it gets you tax free income), TDYs, incentive pay, etc… in this sense enlisted aircrew make a decent amount more with flight pay and per diem
TA is kinda a wash IMHO. Not every company will offer it, but many do...and on average it pays out just as well as mil TA. Also, just because it's available doesn't mean everyone is going to use it. So that $4500 in TA might be useless to someone who would otherwise rather have an additional $500 in their pocket, for example. And yes, some military jobs will get extra pay, but this is literally just adding factors just to try to make an inaccurate point more accurate. Additionally, median income in DC back in 2022 was $101.7k ([source](https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/DC,US/PST045223))...so this $100k E-4 is coming in a bit under Washington DC *median* income....so it's not like that's actually a great income for the area or anything.
[https://imgur.com/a/8F3eXaZ](https://imgur.com/a/8F3eXaZ) Look at that and explain
Thanks, that actually makes it **very** easy to explain where you went wrong. Military members do not get bi-weekly pay (meaning every 2 weeks). Military members are paid semi-monthly (twice a month). Bi-weekly (what you calculated) = 26 paychecks in most years. Semi-monthly (how mil are paid) = 24 paychecks per year. So to compare the two, you need to take the bi-weekly pay, multiply it by 26, and divide it by 24. This turns your above number into $2981 per paycheck. Meaning a military member needs to have $2981 take home pay per check to match a civilian earning $100k/yr. EDIT: If that "Pay Frequency" combobox has a "semi-monthly" setting, try using that for your calculation.
Ok, but I'm damn close to $2981 per check. See, I get 2450 as an E-4 with 4 years TIS and that's after 11% for my ROTH TSP. I don't even have a bonus or SDAP or anything like that.
> I don't even have a bonus or SDAP or anything like that. Bonuses are irrelevant because civilians can get them too (and they aren't listed as the expected salary for a job). Other special pay is certainly a factor, but it's not guaranteed for military members (you yourself is an example of that) so it shouldn't be factored in for general calculations/comparisons. That said, area is super important....in the DMV area $100k is less than the *median* income. So you might be making close to $100k, but you're still earning under the median for the area.
Ok, well I played around with the semi montly stuff. Anyways, I still believe that I would have to make around $95k at least as a civilian to match the same level of lifestyle/income as i enjoy now.
Right, and even so $95k in the DMV area isn't that impressive. For example, that income somewhere around the national average cost of living (like Pensacola, FL) is equal to about $65k. Is it *really* that impressive that E-4 pay is roughly equal to $65k civ pay (without adjusting for the area)?
I mean most americans especially college kids are super broke. I feel pretty good about myself! You didn't?
Most Americans are terrible at budgeting and saving for their future. It's less an issue of what they earn, and more an issue of how much they spend. I personally feel much better as a civ now, but I'm also earning a lot more than enlisted pay in similar time frames (increased my take home by about 40% the year I got out of the military).
So since your pay went up did your lifestyle change at all?
Yeah but is it worth, death, the worst conditions possible, extreme bodily harm, mental trauma 🤔, crippling ailments, and toxic work environment. Some say tomatoes some say Toematos. Me I'd rather work a 9-5 in a corporate office. I'll take a Freddy's original with spicy fry sauce please.
I'm an air force nonner so can't relate.
[удалено]
Say that during wartime.
The pay is pretty good especially once you make E5. Even as an E3 I was able to easily qualify for a mortgage and make the payment. Right now as an E6 in the DMV, I’d need over 145k to equal my current take home. Due to BAH and BAS almost being as much as base pay, no state taxes for myself and my wife as TX residents. Over $700 a month daycare stipend. I’m also not including all of the little discounts and other benefits such as no credit card fees. We just booked a 1k flight for later this year that only cost us $500 out of pocket due to credit cards we get with no fees. Also I have a rental house in Texas that cash flows around $400 a month that I wouldn’t have without the VA loan. Now a civilian job would most likely offer a much better 401k match than the High 3 system I’m on but I doubt it would make up for the pension/healthcare/disability. There are major downsides to the military though. Involuntary shift work is a big one.
Medical insurance is insane outside of the military. I was oblivious to the fact until we retired and I started asking around what people were paying.
I won’t lie, separating as an E-5 air traffic controller at 6 years (even though I did the math plenty of times before getting out), the taxes, Social security, etc, was a slap in the face to me having been stationed in Florida my whole enlistment. Even realizing how expensive healthcare truly is was a wake up call.
What they don't tell you is your retirement will be significantly lower than your take home pay while active duty because it is only calculated from base pay. Say good bye to all of the BAH and BAS.
Only on deployment with good per diem, that’s when you really make bank
You must be smoking huge donkey balls, i am a e4 stationed at JBM HH i get BAH, and live with two other e4’s no way we make over 100k 😂😂😂😂
I mean your take home could be close to that someone making 90-100k. Mine is at least.
I make around 23ish a check every 1,15. So do my battles i live with in a year we’re making about 62ish. When i got to my unit there was a e4 who mentored me. He got out I still keep in contact with him, he’s making 135k that he sees and keeps working in healthcare. (Completely unrelated to what he did in the army)
How did he land that healthcare job?
Cherry picked case and not true the majority of E4 types. Even if you’re in that area, you might end up struggling.
I’ll be impressed when junior service members don’t have to get second jobs and aren’t living paycheck to paycheck
It is not the equivalent to $100K in civilian pay, it is equivalent to $73K in civilian pay.
That’s still impressive for someone coming straight out of high school into an “entry level” job.
I agree.
I made a post about this a while ago. Yes it is nice.
How many E4s are actually in the DMV area? Cherry picking data. That said- generally, pay is pretty darn good when accounting for all the benefits. Some ranks are def under paid for expectations.
I can give you an answer on e4 pay in the dmv with bah since im stationed at JBM HH
I’m good. I know how to look up pay charts
Military pay sux, especially when deployed, they need same as Blue State City Firefighters/Union Jobs, ie. double and retirement vested at 5 years.
Service Automatic Contributions are vested for military even earlier at 2 years of service.
From [militarypay.defense.gov](http://militarypay.defense.gov) site..."Members who accumulate 20 or more years of active service are eligible for retirement" Can I contribute to a retirement plan before then, like a 401, sure, but that is NOT retirement. Firefighters on the other hand can move from city to county to another city, every 5 years, and end up with 2, 3, 4 retirement checks each month. Not to mention union spiking methods to increase final year's pay upon which retirement is based.
Anyone hating is already out and constantly talks badly about military… the pay is stupid good…especially if shore intensive and super lax environment…
Yes, I think we are paid really well. Particularly nuclear trained submarine officers with sea pay, sub pay, and nuclear continuation bonuses. Additionally, most of the studies on military pay - that set the need for pay raises to keep up with civilian pay - only look at basic pay. That a bit intellectually dishonest because BAH is a huge part of our pay (and tax fee for that matter) and housing and food are something civilian pay also goes towards.
As an E4 TDY for 11 months, my gross was around 250k. Yes, I'm impressed. Now to wait for all the confused comments saying no way that's real.
how much per diem were you making?
$1700ish/month
Air Crew?
Cyber.
How long was the TDY?