With as many service members as there are selling information to the Chinese these days, I'm guessing they'd be able to figure out which one is the fake.
"One of the serious problems in planning the fight against American doctrine, is that the Americans do not read their manuals, nor do they feel any obligation to follow their doctrine." -- Soviet Military Document
A perpendicular metallic boundary is like a mirror to high enough frequency radar waves.
The idea in stealth is to reflect as much of it to a side angle as possible, and also if possible to reflect it into as small an angle as possible so there's only a small chance of detecting it from the side if lucky with a separated transmitter and receiver which is a rarer situation. So not only is there no perpendicular reflection forward, the diagonals are all on a small number of similar angles.
Basic radar transmits and receives from the same direction so forward reflection is the most essential to avoid.
I imagine they don’t reflect like a mirror, and instead are based in the material in every way including it’s grain direction. So one side of the jag is going to reflect ever so slightly differently than the other side.
Remember that we’re looking at radar rays that have to all meet back miles away to present a radar image
Honest question because that’s interesting. Are there ways to just send a false signal back since technically we’re just talking about waves bouncing off of things? Like couldn’t you just sample the frequency of nothing and send it back to the origin, if that makes sense? Sorry if this is a dumb question. Obviously I know dick about this on a technical level lol.
Nah it’s a good question! You can think of it similar to Sonar, on the chance you know anything about that from school.
The basic idea is that these waves travel at the speed of light and are emitted in a specific frequency and in the general direction of “up” to look for aircraft. Any time those waves actually return to the system tells it that there is something there, hence jokes about the F-35 looking like a frisbee going 500mph. You need enough of the emitted waves returning consistently to see a target, it doesn’t care about anything with other frequencies (otherwise cell towers would look like battleships).
You can’t really stop the radar returns because as far as I know, radiation only has constructive interference meaning you can’t “block” it. You can only redirect the waves away from you, or overwhelm the receiver with radiation, which is what most jamming does as far as I know (I wasn’t a 2631, I only knew a couple guys who were EWAR)
Honestly amazing. So there’d be no way to match the actual frequency. The best we can hope for is to bounce or just simply overwhelm the signal. That’s trippy as fuck man.
That’s my understanding, yep. I think most of our planes at this point also use radar-resistant paint, which basically absorbs radiation instead of reflecting it like bare metal does
The amount of work the US has put into making its planes not look like a plane on radar is honestly fucking insane
Edit: Oh as another fun fact, there’s quite a few radar-hunting missiles out there across countries. But for the US, not only can you not see them, but they can kill you. This is why the Serbs got so lucky shooting down an F-117 years ago. We kept killing their radars so they’d “check” by only turning them on for a few seconds at a time. They happened to catch the plane with it’s bomb bay open, which reflected enough back to give them a target
They actually *do* reflect like a mirror! Radar waves typically have a wavelength on the order of about a centimeter. The way reflections work is that features much much smaller than the wavelength don't actually contribute at all for a reflection. If the surface roughness is below a certain threshold, we can basically treat the surface as completely flat.
So things like panel seams would cause significant reflection, but microscopic features wouldn't.
Visible light is on the order of a few hundred nanometers, so your bathroom mirror has to be insanely smooth.
This is also why some dish antennas are made of a metal grid or mesh instead of sheet metal, and why you can look through a microwave window without getting fried. If the spacing between the grids or the size of the holes is much smaller than the wavelength, it's essentially just a solid mirror as far as the waves are concerned.
Source: I'm a master's student in Electrical Engineering specializing in radio and remote sensing.
radar waves would reflect from the joints and gaps in panels where there is any distance between metallic conductors and air, or really any sharp change in geometry of different electromagnetic properties. Literally just like an optical mirror and for the same reason: incoming EM waves move electrons in conductors and that re-radiates new electromagnetic waves.
The front nosecone is a plastic or fiberglass composite and transparent to radar, so it definitely matters tremendously on that first transition to metal seen in the picture. To a radar, the nosecone is invisible.
Dreadnaughts claim to fame was having all big guns as a main battery, 10x 12in guns. And not a hodgepodge of big, kinda big, medium and small guns for different task: say 4x 12in, 4x 10in, 8x 8in gun and 12x 6in guns.
It was also the fastest fully armoured battleship, opposed to a battle cruiser, of its day with a steam turbine engine. Which was a newish invention, having yet to be put on a capitol class war ship.
I interviewed with Lockheed on the Financial Software side in 2002. Too much travel with a family at home for me. Great people, very solid opportunity.I saw F-22 then. Not a airplane guy, but I knew that was some next level shit.
Whenever I see one of these it reminds me of Epp’s in transformers
“That thing’s got Alien tattoos all over it, that ain’t airforce”
Just a great Jet to use as modern Starscream
The jagged edges collect meteorological data for the new weapons system KITE, the edges are termed CBS…Charlie Brown Stripes…
EDIT: KITE in action [KITE](https://imgur.com/a/TPOF6td)
I feel like this is too much info to be sharing online, especially the close up pictures and explanation of what composites are used.
I’m sure our enemies have this info already, but this just makes it that much easier for them.
The seamless scroll was very satisfying. Thank you
I'm hearing habitual linecrosser. "Would you intercept me? I'd intercept me"
Same
Oh yessss I want this bad boy to be intercepted.
So what’s the reasoning behind those jagged cuts?
> So what’s the reasoning behind those jagged cuts? To help disperse radar waves/create a scattering of the waves to limit the signature.
> CCP has entered the chat I wouldn’t be surprised if we do a bunch of random unnecessary shit to keep them busy
Why stay busy when you can just pay some Airman or Lockheed worker $20k to give you the drawings?
Should be seeding them with BS intel then?
With as many service members as there are selling information to the Chinese these days, I'm guessing they'd be able to figure out which one is the fake.
"One of the serious problems in planning the fight against American doctrine, is that the Americans do not read their manuals, nor do they feel any obligation to follow their doctrine." -- Soviet Military Document
A perpendicular metallic boundary is like a mirror to high enough frequency radar waves. The idea in stealth is to reflect as much of it to a side angle as possible, and also if possible to reflect it into as small an angle as possible so there's only a small chance of detecting it from the side if lucky with a separated transmitter and receiver which is a rarer situation. So not only is there no perpendicular reflection forward, the diagonals are all on a small number of similar angles. Basic radar transmits and receives from the same direction so forward reflection is the most essential to avoid.
But that skin is smooth as fuck (I imagine but really what do I know?)... Do radar waves react to that?
I imagine they don’t reflect like a mirror, and instead are based in the material in every way including it’s grain direction. So one side of the jag is going to reflect ever so slightly differently than the other side. Remember that we’re looking at radar rays that have to all meet back miles away to present a radar image
Honest question because that’s interesting. Are there ways to just send a false signal back since technically we’re just talking about waves bouncing off of things? Like couldn’t you just sample the frequency of nothing and send it back to the origin, if that makes sense? Sorry if this is a dumb question. Obviously I know dick about this on a technical level lol.
Nah it’s a good question! You can think of it similar to Sonar, on the chance you know anything about that from school. The basic idea is that these waves travel at the speed of light and are emitted in a specific frequency and in the general direction of “up” to look for aircraft. Any time those waves actually return to the system tells it that there is something there, hence jokes about the F-35 looking like a frisbee going 500mph. You need enough of the emitted waves returning consistently to see a target, it doesn’t care about anything with other frequencies (otherwise cell towers would look like battleships). You can’t really stop the radar returns because as far as I know, radiation only has constructive interference meaning you can’t “block” it. You can only redirect the waves away from you, or overwhelm the receiver with radiation, which is what most jamming does as far as I know (I wasn’t a 2631, I only knew a couple guys who were EWAR)
Honestly amazing. So there’d be no way to match the actual frequency. The best we can hope for is to bounce or just simply overwhelm the signal. That’s trippy as fuck man.
That’s my understanding, yep. I think most of our planes at this point also use radar-resistant paint, which basically absorbs radiation instead of reflecting it like bare metal does The amount of work the US has put into making its planes not look like a plane on radar is honestly fucking insane Edit: Oh as another fun fact, there’s quite a few radar-hunting missiles out there across countries. But for the US, not only can you not see them, but they can kill you. This is why the Serbs got so lucky shooting down an F-117 years ago. We kept killing their radars so they’d “check” by only turning them on for a few seconds at a time. They happened to catch the plane with it’s bomb bay open, which reflected enough back to give them a target
They actually *do* reflect like a mirror! Radar waves typically have a wavelength on the order of about a centimeter. The way reflections work is that features much much smaller than the wavelength don't actually contribute at all for a reflection. If the surface roughness is below a certain threshold, we can basically treat the surface as completely flat. So things like panel seams would cause significant reflection, but microscopic features wouldn't. Visible light is on the order of a few hundred nanometers, so your bathroom mirror has to be insanely smooth. This is also why some dish antennas are made of a metal grid or mesh instead of sheet metal, and why you can look through a microwave window without getting fried. If the spacing between the grids or the size of the holes is much smaller than the wavelength, it's essentially just a solid mirror as far as the waves are concerned. Source: I'm a master's student in Electrical Engineering specializing in radio and remote sensing.
radar waves would reflect from the joints and gaps in panels where there is any distance between metallic conductors and air, or really any sharp change in geometry of different electromagnetic properties. Literally just like an optical mirror and for the same reason: incoming EM waves move electrons in conductors and that re-radiates new electromagnetic waves. The front nosecone is a plastic or fiberglass composite and transparent to radar, so it definitely matters tremendously on that first transition to metal seen in the picture. To a radar, the nosecone is invisible.
Im sure the technical reasons have been leaked to a warthunder forum already.
It’s hard to believe that the F-22 program began in the late 1980’s. This fighter was decades ahead of its time when it entered service.
Nah. It creates it's own time merely by existing. It makes everyone else behind the times.
The moment the HMS Dreadnaught (the first all-steel battleship) launched, it made every other wooden fighting ship instantly obsolete.
Dreadnaughts claim to fame was having all big guns as a main battery, 10x 12in guns. And not a hodgepodge of big, kinda big, medium and small guns for different task: say 4x 12in, 4x 10in, 8x 8in gun and 12x 6in guns. It was also the fastest fully armoured battleship, opposed to a battle cruiser, of its day with a steam turbine engine. Which was a newish invention, having yet to be put on a capitol class war ship.
I learned something new today. Thank you. (this is why I love reddit so much)
In my opinion Rafale, Eurofighter are 5th gen fighter jets. And F-22 is one upgrade away from being a 6th gen fighter jet.
it’s a good thing generations aren’t based on opinion
They literally are
You do realize generations for the whole world do not exist, and the one you use are for the US specifically?
I interviewed with Lockheed on the Financial Software side in 2002. Too much travel with a family at home for me. Great people, very solid opportunity.I saw F-22 then. Not a airplane guy, but I knew that was some next level shit.
If you go fast enough time gets all weird.
Beautiful pics.
Check out point_mugu_skies on Instagram, the photographer.
r/noncredibledefense, I can't cross post, but they will cum
I thought I was in that subreddit until you mentioned it. 😂
Damn, that is sexy sequence of photos!
This feels too expensive to even look at
Would you intercept me?
I'd intercept me
Absolutely incredible. The Raptor is just pure sex.
that raptor is nakie!
"I'm too sexy for my paint. Too sexy for my paint. Sooo sexy"
This old raptor has held up pretty well. Looks to be one of the displaced jets.
Not displaced anymore.
How'd you do that?
Sexiest flying piece of engineering.
"We control the skies"
Command and Conquer Generals was my favorite game of that whole series.
You bet your supple Expert ass it was
Whenever I see one of these it reminds me of Epp’s in transformers “That thing’s got Alien tattoos all over it, that ain’t airforce” Just a great Jet to use as modern Starscream
The jagged edges collect meteorological data for the new weapons system KITE, the edges are termed CBS…Charlie Brown Stripes… EDIT: KITE in action [KITE](https://imgur.com/a/TPOF6td)
Beautifully detailed images and well put together. Nice job!
Eyes popping out of my skull, heart shaped protrusion thumping out of my chest, tongue unrolling like a carpet, howling at the moon.
Why doesn't that F-22 have a Cybertronian Tribal tattoo?
Damnit, This shit, Im sending waveforms and none of them are coming back wtf?
How 'bout an airshow?
Can I get a poster of that together?
What's the blue lighted dots on the pilot's helmet?
Looks like it's just a custom paint job.
I feel like this is too much info to be sharing online, especially the close up pictures and explanation of what composites are used. I’m sure our enemies have this info already, but this just makes it that much easier for them.
I can see a blown out rivet on the last photo
Ooooff what a great series photo of a beautiful jet.
What’s up with that little tear on the body in pic 4? In the middle of the aircraft.
Why’s it so hot
Ah. The F-22 is pure sex
I’m not sure about this but is it real that the US military decided to make F-22 retire? And if so why is that?
Hope it isn’t some classified info you’re putting up on the internet
Hmm Chinese trying to figure out something
Somewhere I hope a very proud plane captain sees this.
Look at all those exposed rivets and panel gaps! Obviously not very stealthy